Rioter Comments
Ashenveil (EUW)
: My girlfriend's account got hacked and banned. Is there any hope?
There were similar cases I read about on NA board when the account was restored after some checking up with the support. You can find them easily for details if you want.
GilxeN (EUW)
: Riot never been in favor to optimize their game, I love when I have high-end PC and I have 70 fps in team fights. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
I don't think it is an issue of optimization (I am not an expert though) because it happens to me randomly and in every game mode. Also, they haven't even changed rift yet, and I don't see anything new that could be the reason of it. I really hoped they notice it soon. Now, I am just waiting for the next patch with crossed fingers. :S
Rioter Comments
: Nerf Riven
This is just a rant post with lots of crap, nothing else. >her abilities has no risk, all reward This is my favorite part, the bullshit on the cake.
Rioter Comments
Salron88 (EUW)
: umm if the enemy laner is buffed then ofc you will suffer. Else what is the point of the game. But at the same gold level riven with 4 q destroys every champ. and now the q is at an ever lower cd so the way i see it this is just another riven buff rather then a nerf. which is why i dont think riven needed a nerf or buff just a complete rework.
"ofc you will suffer..... But at the same gold level riven with 4 q destroys every champ" You can see it is a contradiction right? If you suffer then you will never at the same gold level as your opponent. Essentially Riven will be trash against every ranged champion and champions with heavy poke damage. E.g. how do you think Riven can lane against Pantheon anymore? His Q deals ridiculously high damage for a point and click ability while it has 4 sec cd at lvl 1. It means Riven loses 1/3rd of her total health before she can block one spear again. And it is just Pantheon Q while he has a dash with stun and an aoe attack too. Again, it is point&click so there is no way to dodge it. Sounds balanced, fair and fun right? Ofc Riven can stay away from him while E is on cd which means she gives up farming and potentially xp as well which equals to ff15. Before you say, no, she cannot farm under turret because she still has to go melee to kill the minions so Pantheon can Q her without any problem, plus his autoshield blocks turret shots. Moreover, Riven has the worst defensive stats among all melee toplaners. She doesn't have hp regen like Garen which lets him stay in lane after took damage, she doesn't have sustain like Renekton or Darius. She has nothing but her shield. Correction. She had nothing but her shield. Now Riot took away her shield. Meanwhile they buffed champions like Renekton and Darius. Both of them overpowered Riven in lane even before she got nerfed. Renekton has 2 dashes, long duration stun, mid-ranged Q which scales way better with AD than Riven Q's, superior base stats in ever way.... but hey let's buff his sustain so he can get back almost one-third of his health with a single Q.... Can you tell me how Renekton was underpowered against Riven? How is his kit worse than Riven's? Darius had ~54% winrate in high elo before 9.10, before Riven got nerfed. But hey it is Darius, until it is not Riven it is just fine.
IttanMomen (EUNE)
: You just gotta admit that (They don't want to nerf them). It's really just that simple, they don't want, look at what they did to akali when they wanted to nerf her(they put her to the ground) The thing is, they want riven and vayne to stay like that... Riven's nerf isn't really a nerf, all those riven mains are just crying cuz their champ went from S++++ tier broken champ, to only S++ tier broken champ. but in reality, it's still broken as hell !!
No offense but you definitely sounds like those haters who actually know jackshit about Riven. She will be unplayable in a lot of matchups. Try to play Riven into buffed Renekton, buffed Fiora, buffed Darius, or Kennen, Jayce, Teemo, etc. then tell me your experience.
Mártir (EUW)
: Can you please buy Grievous Wounds/Anti heals, vs Soraka and company, please?
You expect too much my friend. Today I played Aram against a full AP team. When the game started I told my team "they are all AP, stack magic resist pls". Guess how many of them bought **any** MR. Yep, none of them. Even our Garen didn't buy any but he bought armor for no %%%%ing reason ofc.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
BoiBussi1 (EUW)
: Dekar banned on twitch
He was drunk or just something kicked in, so he went on a rampage and kept telling eveyone "%%%".
: Who?
You are so helpful...{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: Cats are way cooler . u can learn them tricks and stuff but they just dont care. They do whatever they want they role how they role and thats why they are cooler. + they are so much more fun. Check out Funny Cat videos and Funny Dog videos u see that cats are way more fun to watch. + they are cuter
Dogs are way smarter than cats so what do you mean by "u can learn them tricks and stuff"? Dogs save lifes, catch terrorsits, help blind people as a partner would and so forth. Cats are totally a joke in this comparison. Dogs are guarding our grave, cats are shitting on it.
: fully agreed riven shouldt even have a shield imo
> fully agreed riven shouldt even have a shield imo Coming from a Yasuo-Jax player {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} You wouldn't be able to win 1 game out of 100000 with Riven without shield. Oh wait. You cannot even now when she has it.
: Patch 9.8 still no nerfs to riven and vayne
Oh look! An other thread without any content only to hunt for upvotes. At least the copy-paste still works I see.
: Just don't play the mode if you don't like it :)
I won't and hopefully neither the others who thinking the same. Then ARAM-only accounts may have fun with 20 minutes waiting in queue.
: > [{quoted}](name=8Belthazor8,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=kbN5lEAh,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-17T09:08:48.669+0000) > > "For fun" is impossible when you play fair while others don't so you have to play against the most cancerous champions in every game. ARAM-only accounts are essentally cheating in this mode. There are some way too op and safe champions in ARAM. It is not fun to play against them or play them (unless someone has low standards). It would not be an issue though if we did not have to play against them in every single game. Irony is I am part of the generation of players that invented and made aram popular. As I said it multiple times in the past ARAM was not created by RIOT was invented by community and was played in custom mode on the 5v5 map thats why is call "all random all MID" since was played on mid lane on a 3 lanes map. Was so popular that at request of community RIOT made it official and made a special 1 lane map for it. We had a small set of rules like - don't go base until dead - don't farm jungle or side lanes People were creating custom games with name ARAM and others joined and when 10 joined we just played, somebody paste the rules and make sure everybody got them! Some even create special website with rules page, back then players were not afraid of own shadow to click a link, now players don't even click a youtube link! Flash news for all that complain about OP champions, unbalance in ARAM, broken champs, runes, items - back in the days we had no chat punishment - still we manage to have fun with minimum flame, minimum whine and complain, and also no troll. - no punishment for leaving that custom game - very rare somebody left - no rules **by the system** to not go base and heel + shop or to do jungle or side lane farm- still were very very litle asholes that did not obey them and tried to cheat and go base, or take jungle small camps. - punishment for cheating was to die to enemy team, guess what we were so honorable that team anounce to enemy that one ashole in team is cheeting, that asshole had also some self esteem and after getting caught/expose he just went to suicide to enemy. NO DRAMA! he didn't start act like a spoiled brat, self centered jerk like players today and argue with enemy that he didn't do it, or just rage and leave game or just go and farm on sides without caring of other 9 players! he just suicide! also enemy was ok with just suicide even was not 100% fair system. They **didn't whine for** next 15 min! - back then nidalee spears were devastating and nobody whine like little %%%%%es for 20 min, they just took it and play again, no doge because they didn't got the random champ they want, no doge that enemy got op/free wins champions - champions, items, summoners, rules, were not balanced and made for aram we played with what we got and rules were just virtually made by us not enforced by the System like on today aram map. I played the custom mode for months and I can easy say 95% of times we had a blast fun and only 5% some jerks try to cheat, troll, leave, destroy the fun for other 9 players becuase they are so special and everything revolve around them. 8-9 years in future and applies when FOR EVERYTHING, they want balance after balance, special balance for champs, for items, special items, they want bans for champions, they want punishments for players that like to fight and die a lot, they constant flame and blame in a random fun mode on somebody that maybe play that champ for first time, they get punished for aram flame and instead to be a shame for themself they come to advertise their stupidity on boards and WHINE about riot punish system. ************** Generation of players **3 years ago - till present** YOU WOULD NEVER MADE ARAM POSSIBLE because you are inapt to have fun in a mode that have the rules forced on you, and everything to make your whining come true and your still unsatisfied and WHINE!, if so many dodges in last seconds in aram, afk, flame, whine are in an OFFICIAL MOD how you think you could play like us in custom mode WITH NO RULES and make the mod popular ?! I bet you would not manage to start ONE game out of 100 with 10 players, or keep 10 players till the end of the game in the mod, when no punishment for doge, afk, leave, flame existed! ****** Players today forgot! to have fun in a video game. They play so angry and ready to murder somebody for a game think it's their life and future at stake! Forgot that fun is to play the game and win is a sweet bonus, you only think **win no matter what** it's the only fun! Internet is only meme and joke to you, you have no respect for anyone, your selfish and narcissistic, spoiled and self centered, ruin other 9 people game becuase things don't go as you order/whine/like Players forgot how satisfying is to win if you have a hard time and to win against all odds (like with champs not so good in aram vs champs you think are op) or at least be satisfied you gave them a hard time!, no you want to spam fast buttons and kill and have a easy win or you start whine and leave a game and start to act like supermarket kids rolling on the floor crying because mommy didn't buy you that toy! you have 0 honor and sportsmanship - countless times when I refuse to kill a cleary Dc player and I get so much flame from my team since they want to win NO MATTER WHAT even being dishonorable and kill somebody that is DC!
I would give +100 if it was possible. Time brings changes though and demands improvements. Only thing I am asking for is a solution for ARAM-only accounts to provide equal grounds for everyone.
: aram need to be for fun and to chill not spend time to ban, and get flamed because you didn't ban x champ so chill, was stupid idea to introduce it not to remove it about the aram accounts, they dealt with them by introducing more champions that you can get then the ones you have, they can fix it even more but let all champs free in aram like that no more aram accounts, here I agree with you
"For fun" is impossible when you play fair while others don't so you have to play against the most cancerous champions in every game. ARAM-only accounts are essentally cheating in this mode. There are some way too op and safe champions in ARAM. It is not fun to play against them or play them (unless someone has low standards). It would not be an issue though if we did not have to play against them in every single game.
Rioter Comments
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: > When I said "BotRK is for AA based champions. Their main damage source is not their abilities therefore flat AD is not better for them." I meant its abusers. My bad. E.g. Vayne usually max. Silver Bolts first which does not scale with AD, neither her ultimate or passive. Her E is for defense so it does not matter. Only her Q scales with AD, however, its scaling is very bad compared to other champions. Vaynes usually max Q first, as far as I can tell. BoRK isn't the champion's main balance issue, Rageblade is. > BotRK damage scales with "time", it does more damage in late game than early game due to its % hp damage. It suggests that it supposed to be an item against tanks and bruisers (especially in late game) not against squishy champions. Still it is a first item for its abusers, used against squishy champions. If it was not op then adc-s would not buy it until the teamfights begin where they have to counter tanks and bruisers with high hp. Let's compare a few builds on an ulting level 18 Twitch (A traditional late-game hypercarry) without any AD from runes. Let's only count the AA damage he manages to deal in the 5-second time slot his Q and ult provide. A few notes: I am not counting every possibility of AAs critting or not. I will use a damage formula for every AA: (1+1,25 x crit chance) x AD. RFC energized AA isn't counted, as it is the same in every build. The target level 18 enemy has 3500 HP and 200 armor and 200 MR. (Reduces the damage by 67%). At the end of his ult, Twitch uses the E once (270+210% bonus AD, not counting ult bonus AD). BoRK active is used once, at the start. Build 1: BoRK, Runaan's, IE, Rapid Firecannon, Berserker's Greaves and GA. 317 AD + 8% current health, 75% crit, 2,29 AS. 11 completed AAs in 5s. Build 2: Runaan's, IE, Rapid Firecannon, BT, Berserker's Greaves and GA. 357 AD, 75% crit, 2,12 AS. 10 completed AAs in 5s. Build 3: Runaan's, IE, Rapid Firecannon, Mercurial Scimitar, ER and Berserker's Greaves. 347 AD, 100% crit, 2,12 AS. 10 completed AAs in 5s. ---------------------------------------------------------- Build 1: BoRK and 1st AA: 3500 - 160 x 0,33 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 91 = 3153 HP left. 2nd AA: 3153 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 83 = 2867. 3rd AA: 2867 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 76 = 2589. 4th AA: 2589 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 68 = 2318. 5th AA: 2318 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 61 = 2054. 6th AA: 2054 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 54 = 1797. 7th AA: 1797 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 47 = 1546. 8th AA: 1546 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 41 = 1302. 9th AA: 1302 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 34 = 1065. 10th AA: 1065 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 28 = 834. 11th AA + E: 834 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 22 - 308 = 301 HP left. Build 2: 3500 - 0,33 x ( 357 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) x 10 + 270 + 317 x 2,1 ) = 908 HP left. Build 3: 3500 - 0,33 x ( 347 x (1+1,25 x 1) x 10 + 270 + 307 x 2,1 ) = 622 HP left. So in this ideal situation, where the BoRK build gets 75% crit chance, against a full tank opponent, the BoRK does the most damage. But the thing is, it should, as it is an anti-tank item. ----------------------------------------------------- Now, let's compare it to a target that isn't as beefy. Let's say, 2700 HP and 175 armor. 60% damage reduction. Build 1: BoRK and 1st AA: 2700 - 160 x 0,4 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 84 = 2347 HP left. 2nd AA: 2347 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 75 = 2069. 3rd AA: 2069 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 66 = 1800. 4th AA: 1800 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 57 = 1540. 5th AA: 1540 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 49 = 1288. 6th AA: 1288 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 41 = 1044. 7th AA: 1044 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 33 = 808. 8th AA: 808 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 26 = 579. Even with E (374 damage) 9th AA: 579 - 0,33 x 317 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) - 18 = 358 - 374 = -16 HP left. But as the lowest HP/5 at level 18 is 9,1 (Morde) and the highest is 34,3/57,5 (Mini and Mega Gnar). even a small health pot running will increase the kill threshold to 10 AAs, which is more than with crit items. Build 2: 2700 - 0,4 x ( 357 x (1+1,25 x 0,75) x 8 + 270 + 317 x 2,1 ) = -164 HP left. Dead in 9 AAs. Build 3: 2700 - 0,4 x ( 347 x (1+1,25 x 1) x 8 + 270 + 307 x 2,1 ) = -164 HP. Dead in 8 AAs ---------------------------------------- Btw, I am never going to write this again :P
Well, you proved that a full crit build at max level is somewhat better than a full build with BotRK. I have nothing to debate on it. My argument wasn't about its power in a full build though. I think it is cheap for its value. I've just watched a video about the upcoming changes in 9.8 and its price will be increased by 100 gold. Lucky for me, I was not the only one who thought it is underpriced.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: > BotRK is for AA based champions. Their main damage source is not their abilities therefore flat AD is not better for them. Just take a look at the kits of some AA-based ADCs and their abilities ratios: -Tristana's level 5 E: from 110 + 130% bonus AD to 242 + 286% bonus AD. -Twitch's level 5 E: from 95 + 35% bonus AD to 270 + 210% bonus AD PER target. With Runaan, you can get two targets. That is up to 540 + 420% bonus AD. He also gets AD from his ult, that is multiplied with crit. -Sivir's level 5 Q: 115 + 110% AD per target. It isn't unheard of to hit three or more targets with one Q. Her W scales with AD as well. -Ashe's level 5 Q: 125% AD per flurry. Her W has 100% AD ratio as well, thus hitting two or more equals over 200% AD ratio. As you can see, AA-based ADCs do have nice AD ratios as well. Also do consider the fact that Infernal Drakes increase the total AD - it won't affect BoRK damage. > BotRK abusers can build crit as well, so not really. They have a huge advantage early game which is odd if we consider BotRK as a late game item. BoRK delays the crit build's powerspike, while also reducing the 6-item damage output. BoRK isn't a late-game item. > it is a late game item as it should be. Why BotRK is a first item for its abusers? Because you have the false assumption that BoRK is a late-game item.
> Just take a look at the kits of some AA-based ADCs and their abilities ratios: When I said "BotRK is for AA based champions. Their main damage source is not their abilities therefore flat AD is not better for them." I meant its abusers. My bad. E.g. Vayne usually max. Silver Bolts first which does not scale with AD, neither her ultimate or passive. Her E is for defense so it does not matter. Only her Q scales with AD, however, its scaling is very bad compared to other champions. >Because you have the false assumption that BoRK is a late-game item. BotRK damage scales with "time", it does more damage in late game than early game due to its % hp damage. It suggests that it supposed to be an item against tanks and bruisers (especially in late game) not against squishy champions. Still it is a first item for its abusers, used against squishy champions. If it was not op then adc-s would not buy it until the teamfights begin where they have to counter tanks and bruisers with high hp.
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: BoRK is an on-hit item. BT, DD and IE have higher flat AD, thus making abilities hit harder. Crit builds will out-scale BoRK. DD doesn't give 15% life steal. It gives 15% heal for all damage dealt, including true damage. There is a reason why Deathcap isn't usually built as a first item, as it doesn't have CDR, and as the effectiveness scales with your current AP.
> BoRK is an on-hit item. BT, DD and IE have higher flat AD, thus making abilities hit harder. BotRK is for AA based champions. Their main damage source is not their abilities therefore flat AD is not better for them. > Crit builds will out-scale BoRK. BotRK abusers can build crit as well, so not really. They have a huge advantage early game which is odd if we consider BotRK as a late game item. > There is a reason why Deathcap isn't usually built as a first item, as it doesn't have CDR, and as the effectiveness scales with your current AP. it is a late game item as it should be. Why BotRK is a first item for its abusers?
: Firstly, Yi without BorK is common. Secondly, "the item is optimal on two champions" is not even vaguely the same thing. If that was the case, IE would be broken, BC would be broken, Ludens and Deathcap would be broken, every single core item in the game would be broken.
I did not said it is op because it is built all the time, I said it is broken because it is way cheaper than it should be. You said those who could abuse it always would which is actually the case. E.g. Lucian always builds it, Vayne always builds it. It does not matter how many champions it is optimal for, those who can abuse it get more value for their money than they should. Do not get me wrong, I do not want to force my opinion on anyone but I have not got anything convincing yet. Humpelstilzche's "math" seems anything but reliable to me.
: Gold efficiency calculations are based on an assumption of how "good" or "valuable" a particular stat is though, decided by the balance team. They're questionable in and of themselves. Just pointing that out, alongside the noted issues with assessing the power of passives. The real answer is that if BorK was completely busted then champions who can abuse it always would, and would see their winrates skyrocket because of being able to abuse the broken item. Same thing as with Aftershock. That not being the case, the item probably isn't broken.
>if BorK was completely busted then champions who can abuse it always would Have you ever seen a Vayne or Yi without BotRK? Yeah, me neither.
: You make a little mistake hear: You try to solve a mathematical problem without actually doing the math but instead relying on your gut feeling. Humans are not very good at that. Luckily you don't even have to do the math, some other people already did: BotrKs stats have a gold value 2850 gold, which means it's 89% gold efficient. The on hit increases that value, depending on the enemies HP. Bloodthirster is worth 3550 gold, which makes it 101% gold efficient. The shield increases that value by up to 128% gold efficiency. Deaths Dance has 115% gold efficiency, without the second passive (which can not be calculated). Rabadons is 101% gold efficient with another 24% per 100 AP. So as you can see, Botrk is the least gold efficient item of those you compared it with...unless the enemies have a lot of HP. And that is basically what BotrK is supposed to be, a situational item. If your enemies are squishy, it's horrible and clearly worse than all the alternatives. If the enemies have a lot of HP, it becomes better and better. And that, the decision when to buy it and when to better not buy it...that makes it a balanced item.
>You try to solve a mathematical problem without actually doing the math It is hard to do the math when the power of an item is coming from a unique passive. Just because someone said "hey this unique passive is worth 300 gold" does not mean it is the real value. >BotrK is supposed to be, a situational item....And that, the decision when to buy it and when to better not buy it...that makes it a balanced item. Then it falied its purpose. How many times have you seen it built as "situational item"? How many times have you seen Vayne, Lucian, Yi, etc. build it because of the enemy teamcomp? No. They are building it everytime. > If your enemies are squishy, it's horrible False statement. Every BotRK user champion using it against squishy champions and they always buying it as first item not for the last.
Rioter Comments
: Wait, what? I never played Lucian in my entire life. Neither did I go 2/11. Also in my last game Riven went 4/8/2 and tried to destroy the game. Are you trolling me?
Nope, it is just a bug. Whenever I click on your match history it brings up "TanjaMendes"'s match history. I did not notice it first time.
: What's wrong with Riven players ?
Answer: because they are not Riven players. They just pick it and do not know how to play with her. It is not like other champions do not lose matches anyway. Everyone can pick any champion.
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: Okay, I get it. You really want to defend broken ass Irelia but you start to make no sense now. > Or maybe you provide a link to your source. You know, like you should if you want to be taken seriously. That is exactly what I did. You know how to use youtube on your own right? > That is indeed what i am saying. It happens constantly. Also, the most competitive "level" is pro scene and she isn't used there. Hmm i wonder why... could it be that she isn't broken like you think? wow, amazing. She is picked and she is banned. Maybe not as much as she was before but saying that she is not used in pro games is a lie. Moreover you contradict yourself within 2 sentences. You are saying pro players prefer interesting champions over broken ones (which is the most ridiculous and obviously false statement I have seen so far), also you are saying Irelia is an interesting champion not a broken one and your conslusion based on these 2 statements is "pros are not playing her which proves she is not broken". It is just false logic, it is a contradiction. > Yes and as i said before, irelia isn't being played in the pro scene. So obviously she isn't overpowered. Otherwise she would be a pick/ban almost every game. If a champion like yorick can find himself in the pro scene, then obviously something like irelia would definitely be there as well if she was actually that strong. Same thing as above. Irelia is a top pick in korean high elo which alone proves that she is broken tbh. Despite your "funny" comment, competitive games are serious. They have a word for funny and interesting picks though: trolling.
> That is NOT what you did. You didn't prove any links. Telling someone to search from youtube is not a valid link or a source. Also, i tired searching it but couldn't find it. Not to mention i'm not gonna waste my life watching every video about urgot vs irelia to find the one you mean. Interesting. I found one in less than 10 seconds.[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT5dLYYZ_TQ) It is so wonderful how Irelia shits on urgot in the whole game. Especially 9:24 where she towerdives him and kills him without any difficulty without a single completed item. Not to mention she kills Vi right after that despite she had only 1/3 health while Vi was max hp. > Being banned once in the most recent 43 games and not played a single time is not enough to say that she is being picked and banned in the pro play because she is op. > I mean technically, since she was banned once and not played at all, it is not a lie. She was a pick or ban every game before the changes and now she is only picked or banned by teams that are too stubborn to let go. I literally watched 2 games today, this is one of them: [link](https://watch.eune.lolesports.com/vod/101383794066504446/1/J0w0zqsawwg) "not played a single time" huh? > I NEVER said that. You are like those modern feminists twisting words to make them fit your arguments. > And this whole argument just got debunked by the fact that i never said the first thing. Me: "LOL So you are saying ppl chose "interesting" over broken at the most competitive levels?" You: "That is indeed what i am saying. It happens constantly." This argument is pointless because you cannot remember things you just said 2 comments ago. >It doesn't work and it just makes you look worse. After all of these above you should not worry about my looking. I am done.
: >Uhmm... it is not really up for a debate since she just does that. If you have not seen it yet just search for it on youtube. Or maybe you provide a link to your source. You know, like you should if you want to be taken seriously. >LOL So you are saying ppl chose "interesting" over broken at the most competitive levels? That is indeed what i am saying. It happens constantly. Also, the most competitive "level" is pro scene and she isn't used there. Hmm i wonder why... could it be that she isn't broken like you think? wow, amazing. > Even you agreed with me in the rest of your comment that pro and high elo players are abusing op champions. Yorick a good example for that. Yes and as i said before, irelia isn't being played in the pro scene. So obviously she isn't overpowered. Otherwise she would be a pick/ban almost every game. If a champion like yorick can find himself in the pro scene, then obviously something like irelia would definitely be there as well if she was actually that strong.
Okay, I get it. You really want to defend broken ass Irelia but you start to make no sense now. > Or maybe you provide a link to your source. You know, like you should if you want to be taken seriously. That is exactly what I did. You know how to use youtube on your own right? > That is indeed what i am saying. It happens constantly. Also, the most competitive "level" is pro scene and she isn't used there. Hmm i wonder why... could it be that she isn't broken like you think? wow, amazing. She is picked and she is banned. Maybe not as much as she was before but saying that she is not used in pro games is a lie. Moreover you contradict yourself within 2 sentences. You are saying pro players prefer interesting champions over broken ones (which is the most ridiculous and obviously false statement I have seen so far), also you are saying Irelia is an interesting champion not a broken one and your conslusion based on these 2 statements is "pros are not playing her which proves she is not broken". It is just false logic, it is a contradiction. > Yes and as i said before, irelia isn't being played in the pro scene. So obviously she isn't overpowered. Otherwise she would be a pick/ban almost every game. If a champion like yorick can find himself in the pro scene, then obviously something like irelia would definitely be there as well if she was actually that strong. Same thing as above. Irelia is a top pick in korean high elo which alone proves that she is broken tbh. Despite your "funny" comment, competitive games are serious. They have a word for funny and interesting picks though: trolling.
: >Irelia can 3-shot urgot or garen without being fed No she can't. >Also I do not know what tournament you watched, I might be the one who was lucky but all 5 games I have watched recently contained an Irelia pick or ban. Well, let's use LEC as an example. From the last 30 matches (3 weeks. 4.5 and 6.), irelia had presence in 5 of them (3 bans and 2 picks). In LCK, in the last 43 games (weeks 4 and 5), irelia was banned ONCE and not picked AT ALL. So i really do not see what games you have been watching and what you consider "recent" in this context. >Also she is one of the most picked champions in korean's high elo which tells something. Yeah. It tells that she is interesting and thus popular. Just like thresh, ezreal, lee sin and yasuo. >Since pros abuse op champs more than anyone else, I think it is a solid parallelism. It is rather funny since they do not play or ban irelia. >Why do you think Yorick appeared all of a sudden in pro plays? His kit is the same it was before. Because he got buffed. That's the actual reason. First the change to the maiden's damage and then the change that he can decide whether or not to send her down a lane. His ult is permanent until it gets killed. Those were enough to make him overpowered. >Teamcomp is more important for sure but they essentially build the rest of the team around the most broken champs. Except yorick is terrible in team fights and that shows in his win rate in pro games. He doesn't have above 50% win rate in any major region and LEC is the only place where he has that 50% win rate. Every other region has lower win rate on him. He has a high win rate in soloq because his play style fits there much better than in pro scene.
> No she can't. Uhmm... it is not really up for a debate since she just does that. If you have not seen it yet just search for it on youtube. > Yeah. It tells that she is interesting and thus popular. Just like thresh, ezreal, lee sin and yasuo. LOL So you are saying ppl chose "interesting" over broken at the most competitive levels? You cannot be serious with this one. Even you agreed with me in the rest of your comment that pro and high elo players are abusing op champions. Yorick a good example for that.
: >Because she was busted broken just like Akali. Yes, in the mid lane. Not top lane. >Winrate means jackshit when only noobs playing a certain champion because it is so broken that everyone just permanbans it in high elo and pro games. Except win rates are calculated from plat+ elo. Not from those so called noobs. Also, there have indeed been champions like akali, azir and ryze who have had low win rates hen they are op but not a single on of them had THE lowest win rate. You can't achieve the lowest win rate in the game without actually being bad. >Now she is even more broken. She obviously isn't. >You really think pro players are banning or picking a champion almost every game which is weak or balanced at most? Come on. They are not banning or even picking her currently. I just checked LCK and LEC ban histories. After the changes, she just fell out completely. Also, they do ban and pick champions like ryze that are incredibly bad in soloq but decent in pro play. So that argument doesn't hold.
They buffed her against AD. So yes, she is. Irelia can 3-shot urgot or garen without being fed. it is ridiculous. Also I do not know what tournament you watched, I might be the one who was lucky but all 5 games I have watched recently contained an Irelia pick or ban. Also she is one of the most picked champions in korean's high elo which tells something. Since pros abuse op champs more than anyone else, I think it is a solid parallelism. Why do you think Yorick appeared all of a sudden in pro plays? His kit is the same it was before. It might has something to do with his 56< winrate? Teamcomp is more important for sure but they essentially build the rest of the team around the most broken champs.
: >In what era...did irelia suffered toplane????????? During the patches before the recent changes. >She was good on top No she wasn't. >Dont defend the champ you play seriously.Thats reality. That is NOT reality. Also, i don't play her. I have over 200 games played this season and NOT A SINGLE ONE on irelia. So definitely not defending a champion i play. You could have even checked my profile before you make any false assumptions. >And lets not put winrate..cuz if we do that then adc is unexistent. This is not by any means a valid argument. There are currently 8 adcs with over 50% win rate and many of the ones that are below it are still very good in the right hands like ezreal. Irelia's win rate was lower than any adc has currently. So come at me with real arguments, or leave.
> Irelia's win rate was lower than any adc has currently. Because she was busted broken just like Akali. Winrate means jackshit when only noobs playing a certain champion because it is so broken that everyone just permanbans it in high elo and pro games. Now she is even more broken. You really think pro players are banning or picking a champion almost every game which is weak or balanced at most? Come on.
Rioter Comments
GreyfellD (EUW)
: Is there any point to learning harder champions with less mobility?
Why do you play League? I play it for fun. To me fun means I learn difficult champions and outskill my opponent instead of "outrightclicking" them. i would hate to play easy or overpowered champions because they are boring. So I do not. Therefore I do not understand your problem. If you find champions with high skill cap more fun to play then play them. If you are frustrated about other players who play easier champs then you should play them too. I mean, what is the point of getting frustrated instead of having fun? Btw, I think you might be the only person who thinks GA is better item than Zhonya.
: >Then why do melee champs pick conq now? Not all of them do. Also, the reason why melee champions take it is because it's better than anything else and they can keep it up by staying in combat while ranged champions can't. Note that the current conqueror stacks if you take damage, while the new one requires that YOU hit the enemy champion (the current one doesn't even need the damage dealer or the target to be a champion). That's a major difference. Like in lane, you can stack the current conqueror from minions. I am saying tough that the current values for the new conqueror are too high. 75 ad is a lot.
That is why I disagree. How could melee characters get stacks and keep it up anyway as efficient as ranged champs do? You say it is only 3 sec, however, it has no cooldown! It means those champs who get 5 stack in less than 0.5 sec are able to keep it up constantly. [Watch this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhOUm3y-oMo&t=297s) for example. E.g. Twitch gets full stack in a teamfight with every AA.
: 3 seconds IS a short duration in this context. You can get zoned in fights which means you can't attack and that will drop your stacks. They can kite away from you a bit and you will lose the stacks. We already see this with rageblade and it has even longer grace period. You still need 5 stacks to get the full value.
Then why do melee champs pick conq now? They can be kited easier since they have no range and current conq cannot be stacked in an instant like the new one. "You still need 5 stacks to get the full value." what a bruiser cannot get easy while many ranged champs get with pressing a button once.
: Eh, ranged champions aren't really a problem because their stacks fall off so fast. Ranged champions don't even have proper runes to go to except lethal tempo on some of them. However, champions like yasuo definitely need to be nerfed before that rune comes live. Yasuo is currently busted and that rune will make him even more busted.
3 sec is short for you? How much damage can be dealt by an adc in 3 sec? What prevents them to get full stack instanly back the same way they got it first? Yasuo is always broken because they refuse to nerf his overloaded kit. Nothing new there tbh. They will not nerf him no matter what, you just have to permaban.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux is my Mother,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=T8AQv9Oi,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-13T03:37:47.430+0000) > > if you were keeping track of anything riot was saying, they said they plan to take all of the power out of her kit and then put it back in to get it to balanced state, instead of giving her a small nerf that wouldn't do anything, it is better her being bad for one patch so that they can decide where they want to go with her rather than her being permabanned as per usual. she had 46% winrate and wasnt permabanned.
> [{quoted}](name=KIÑG ØF THË DÉÅÐ,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=T8AQv9Oi,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-13T07:48:21.972+0000) > > she had 46% winrate and wasnt permabanned. Drugs ruin your memory dude. Don't do it.
Muuaahh (EUNE)
: You're actually a moron
Yeah, I actually did not except anything more from you. Not even something remotely apprehensive.
Muuaahh (EUNE)
: You really have to stop crying about his healing when his other abilities do jack shait, especially if the enemy has bad ults. His other 2 abilites are just for passive and 'stickiness' since he has to proc his passive 'AA' to deal any sort of dmg.
Dumb logic. Lets imagine a champion with the ablity to execute every enemy champion on the map by pressing a button. You would say "stop crying about his execute because it has a 8 minutes cooldown and the champion is useless otherwise"? A bad designed champion can have a ridiculously op ability and a shitty winrate at the same time.
Chip10 (EUNE)
: isnt a 2 years ban enough
I dunno. I think 2 years may be enough to give someone an other shot. It is not like hardcore trolls cannot create new accounts for trolling again and again. Everyone can be tilted. Also 2 years quiet a lot especially for a teenager. The banned person may actually change / become more mature.
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: permanent means permanent. you should have thought of that before you went full jerk mode.
Wow, really? I think he figured that much out alone. It was not the question though.
: Oh don't come here with your "facts" and your "logic". This guy wanted to have himself a good old circlejerk about how "OP" riven supposedly is and you just come in here and try to have an actual discussion? Pff, what a pleb...
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Pls nerf Riven
How is she broken early? She has 0 range attack to poke with, her Q has a 13 sec cooldown. She is commonly called one of the hardest champion to master. "Everyone plays and wins with her" is a ridiculous statement since she has a perfectly balanced 50% winrate while 79 champion have higher. Spear of Shojin is not even good for Riven (not optimal). And what is this "she just qweqwe...OUTPLAYED BICHHHHH"? Are not all the champions using literally the same buttons? I am trying to find here a reasonable point but I cannot, sorry. I think you just got tilted badly.
: Is sorry to say this but this champion makes me rage when i play against her i think she deserve nerf even i start playing her and i dont know rly her kit good but still in 80 % time i easily win lane...
When did you played her exactly? I checked your match history back to june and it does not show a single Riven game.
Dewritoes (EUW)
: My take is that champions who go Spear of Shojin get a lot more use out of it once they pop it (i'm thinking {{champion:67}}, {{champion:11}}, {{champion:75}},...) because these champions can dominate in a teamfight and wipe your entire team when played around optimally. 6 seconds is long in a teamfight. Meanwhile, {{item:3095}} can only be used for energized attacks, which require a build-up of some sort. So while it is more reliable in longer fights and chases, {{item:3161}} makes up for it in teamfights (by far imo) when played around optimally. I'd say worth the 200 gold to decide a game with a hypercarry like Yi or Vayne Don't take this as 'pro speculation 100% truth (i'm only S3 dont hurt me) ((also stormrazor isn't that good of an item on many adcs at the moment)) (((also 250 hp can make a lot of difference for the champs who build this, keeps them alive for a little longer to smash)))
So you guys saying it is a worth buy as 3rd or 4th item for certain champions. Btw, I am unranked who wants to learn, so do not worry about it, I am not going to use this info in pro games:D
Rioter Comments

8Belthazor8

Level 27 (EUNE)
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