Henkel (EUW)
: State of Balance/League
Read it, and agree with everything. Good post - up you go.
: > [{quoted}](name=Father Tios,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=yYo1LpwO,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-17T20:33:54.070+0000) > > Now this is not something that affects me personally. > > I would just like to start a discussion on the fact that recently there have been a bunch of people wrongly banned, be it chat-related punishments or the sett bugs. I'd like a source for that claim of yours. At the very least, a source that actually shows they were wrongfully punished on a stronger basis than, "I didn't do anything wrong, take my word for it, pay no attention to the fact that I'm suspiciously-hesitant to show my chatlogs".
As in, when they are unbanned by rito, it generally is confirmed that they didn't.
Semaka (EUW)
: > Which is practically the same thing for the customer, as ruled by the european union. True, but this is Riot Games, a private company. Their rules. Try to sue them after they perma ban your account and you lose all of which you bought, try invoking EU rules or USA laws, or everything you can. You will be surprised how fast you will lose. If they want to compensate you, they will, if they don't want to, they won't. You, me, no one else have a say in the matter.
> [{quoted}](name=Semaka,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=yYo1LpwO,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-17T21:04:08.031+0000) > > True, but this is Riot Games, a private company. And customers may choose whether or not they invest money in a company, based on whether their practices are good or bad. Which is why this is an issue that matters. >Their rules. Try to sue them after they perma ban your account, and you lose all of which you bought. You will be surprised how fast you will lose. And if you didn't break any rules stated by them, I would sue, as there are pretty strong rights for customers. That is why customer protection exists. > > If they want to compensate you, they will, if they don't want to, they won't. You, me, no one else have a say in the matter. That, my friend, is why people boycott companies. It is naive to say that customers don't have a say in what happens to them. In this case, as Hansi brought up, it is compensated, which is all I wanted to know.
: In my 2 years of being on this forum i saw only 1 person who has been wrongly banned for chat. And hundreds of people claiming to be wrongly banned while having toxic chat logs. And somebody got banned over sett bug?
There has recently been a few cases here who got unbanned. For example their honor levels weren't reset.
Hansiman (EUW)
: From what I've seen, there's generally been a small compensation for those wrongfully banned.
> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=yYo1LpwO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-01-17T20:57:20.038+0000) > > From what I've seen, there's generally been a small compensation for those wrongfully banned. Alright, this hasn't been very clear and/or open, so it is good to know that - as this is what I was worried about. Thanks for bringing this up.
Semaka (EUW)
: > If the goods you purchase are taken away wrongfully You don't purchase the goods, you purchase the right to use them. And it's not like they don't give everything back once they will unban that account. And speaking of charity, these guys work their asses off to give you a **FREE** to play game, without forcing you to give them money, **EVER**. They actually pay people, to give you something fun and entertaining for **FREE**. So after they give you something for **FREE**, you want them to compensate you for a mistake that a program did? And who says that they didn't give compensation? I remember there was a time when the servers were down for a long period, and I remembered that they give us something back then.
> [{quoted}](name=Semaka,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=yYo1LpwO,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2020-01-17T20:53:39.189+0000) > > You don't purchase the goods, you purchase the right to use them. Which is practically the same thing for the customer, as ruled by the european union. >And it's not like they don't give everything back once they will unban that account. If they unban, and after notable efforts by the customer - it is common practice for companies to give out compensation when a customer suffers due to their mistakes. > > And speaking of charity, this guys work their asses to give you a **FREE** to play game, It. Is. A. Business. >without forcing you to give them money, **EVER**. They actually pay people, to give you something fun and entertaining for **FREE**. So after they give you something for **FREE**, you want them to compensate you for a mistake that a program did? It is a business people spend money on. You should be compensated when something you spend money and effort on has been affected negatively. Their intent is to make a profit, and how they make a profit is due to the customers. It is gullible to say 'but you get to play for free'. Their goal is to make money out of it, it is a business model, not a charity.
Semaka (EUW)
: They are apologising to those who are wrongfully banned and their bans are lifted. The number of players that are wrongfully banned is very small, and I don't see a point for compensation. An honest apology is more than enough for me. Asking for compensation is like asking for money because you donated to charity.
> [{quoted}](name=Semaka,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=yYo1LpwO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-17T20:44:28.668+0000) > > They are apologising to those who are wrongfully banned and their bans are lifted. The number of players that are wrongfully banned is very small, and I don't see a point for compensation. An honest apology is more than enough for me. They haven't and it should be a part - especially if it has to be brought on boards and/or reddit because of support not working. They should also make it public that it is possible that it happens and that people who believe it has happened to them, should actually protest it. Customers shouldn't suffer due to %%%%ups of a company. > > Asking for compensation is like asking for money because you donated to charity. What? No? If the goods you purchase are taken away wrongfully, you should be compensated. This is a business, not a charity.
: >I would just like to start a discussion on the fact that recently there have been a bunch of people wrongly banned, be it chat-related punishments or the sett bugs. What?
Do you have a difficulty reading..?
Rioter Comments
Maluber (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mffn,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Jw3ephO3,comment-id=00090000000100010000,timestamp=2020-01-17T11:21:13.645+0000) > > I dont know how this exactly works but vandirils video is enough proof imo that the bug does exist. And i did actually provide proof to the support in form of my replay, that i did encounter that bug and that i did impact my ability to play MASSIVELY, but they told me : If there was a bug it would have impacted all players. I find that answer quite stupid because it doesnt give any relevant information nor is it correct. That's the sad thing. Riot already knew this was a bug with sett while he was on pbe and **didn't bother fixing it**. Now they're banning players for issues that they didn't fix before releasing the champion. I hope you get unbanned.
And if that isn't bad practice for a company, I don't know what is.
: > [{quoted}](name=I need love,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Jw3ephO3,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-17T11:15:00.469+0000) > > they never take back ban decisions. NEVER. impossible Oh look he has been unbanned. Magic. Have faith in Riot instead of making wrong assumptions.
Yes. And no thanks to support. So how about those people who have this happen to them, and don't know to come complain here and/or aren't seen? I think 'faith in rito' does just as much good here as faith in general.
MusicaroN (EUW)
: You guys are a joke, you should at least apologize and give this guy a compensation for BANNING him due to YOUR mistakes. Also a support "SPECIALIST" actually reviewed the case saying his score wasn't ok and marked the ticket as solved ? what an absolute joke of support system, ban system you name it. Do you have them fill daily quotas ? or what is the reasoning of them looking into cases so superficially ?
This. "Design team %%%%s up, QA team %%%%s up, players get banned" People who are supposed to ensure these work properly: "Yeah working as intended" Finally brought to light: "oh umm, you're unbanned but we won't give anything to our customers despite of causing them inconveniences" I'll be honest: if there's a chance that people who spend money in your game are banned unjustly, and your system to prevent that doesn't investigate properly, you have serious problems in the company. Personally, if I got banned and it wasn't investigated, I'd sue. (Yes, it isn't 'your account' but that doesn't really apply in eu)
Mffn (EUW)
: Banned because of Sett
Rrstonius (EUW)
: BEST TIP FOR ANYONE PLAYING THE GAME!
I have a better one: https://youtu.be/cFnPhs0_fI8
DenBettes (EUW)
: Why are you still even here. You've literaly been ranting for 4 months saying the same shit over and over. Try to be constructive for once. "I don't play this game anymore, it's dead to me". Then act like it, and stop being a pain in the ass on the boards Peace
> [{quoted}](name=DenBettes,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FTETL2JJ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-16T14:33:04.856+0000) > > Why are you still even here. Because I chose to. > > You've literaly been ranting for 4 months saying the same shit over and over. And I will until they fix the problems. > Try to be constructive for once. All of my posts aimed at rito point out specific problems, and give out ideas as how they could be fixed. How is that not constructive? As for the one you replied to, it's not intended to be constructive, and there is no need for it to be as it's a sarcastic remark to another player. > > "I don't play this game anymore, it's dead to me". :) > Then act like it, and stop being a pain in the ass on the boards Make me.
: Its not just that MR items are bad, its also, for some unfathomably stupid reason, than AP items are all stronger than AD. Adapative formula? Better for AP. MR growth? Lower than armour. MR item stats? Lower. AP pen stats? higher.
In a game where adc's have been intended to kill tanks, whereas mages are intended to kill adc's. Design 10/10
: Repetitive champs? Sounds like ranked too.
RayleighTT (EUNE)
: and when you realise , veigar/brand/zyra/xerath can be part of bot experience against adc , and make so frustrating to play adc in bot lane against a mage with 3 x times more much range than you , and that you have to constantly dodge ,without to be actually that much able to fight that back... ,some people will say unlucky... , not forget about lux , vel'koz . The whole adc experience been ruinned since Riot turn to work on thinghs .
Like at least in the past there was always a cost if you played something that would completely shut down the opponent. Now its just "nope, you died, sorry". It's alright to have counterplay, but it shouldn't be in the extent where you can't do anything no matter how well you play, as long as the one playing the counter isn't a literal mundo.
: Modern day ADC gameplay
"We have a system where every role has a place.... Let's remove adc from it" - Riot games, 2016. .... "Mission accomplished." - Riot 2020. I like how their definition of 'strategic diversity' means playing the same champions literally everywhere, while a whole class is completely unplayable.
Hansiman (EUW)
: If "half" the server was having problems, this board would literally be flooded with comments about it, and it isn't. Yes, some players are having problems, but in many cases it can be solved by a player being proactive about it.
"Hey let's get stuck in the little detail used to make a point about the issue, after I falsely dismissed it as something that it wasn't, Instead of addressing the actual issue" That is pretty counterproductive, and I would expect better from you, Hansiman.
: remove akali
Just remove all assassins to begin with. Game would be all the better for it.
Morrhen (EUW)
: Just a heads up, Aphelios is getting nerfed again in 10.2.
Now that's going to solve all problems. Especially when they just add more new champs with overloaded kits. It's clear they have no incentive to fix this shite.
: Games are to short, and champions deals to much damage.
Just watch any old video and compare to what would happen in it today. It's insane how much more EVERYTHING everything has. https://youtu.be/EwPcLNont5s Just something to compare for example 2:19; that's both ezreal and j4 going full-on damage builds. That item got nerfed for having too much damage, btw. Compare that to what would happen today. Either of them would just nuke the morde down on their own, and ez would die 3 times over in that. Before it was plan, kill for plays, zone, strategize Now it's kill or be killed.
: > That's literally what I said multiple times already, and pointed out that traditional supports do get a lot of more tools with gold. What are you arguing here..? No it’s not, you pointed out that you have to have gold to carry, supports don’t it’s a bonus to them. You don’t pick a support based of what they can do with items. > You can have information of your opponent without wards (look at sk when they were dominant). But also all supports tend to ward. That's, actually, the one good thing with the support items. You can guess information but unless you are a extremely high level 5 man team don’t even try it. And yes all supports ward because supports get free wards... so with the support item all supports can carry > First off, there are many ways to peel, and items allow more of this, but also transform how you can play in many ways. You can use for example roe both defensively and offensively. But a lot of utility supports are not only known for peeling (which, read, makes you dependent on your carries), but for their playmaking - these usually go hand in hand. Gold tends to help the playmaking part more (but can work for both, for exmaple I use roe both offensively and defensively). But they only help, it’s not a necessity. Traditional supports have what they need to initiate or peel already in their kits, items just assist with them. Unlike litterally all other champions who their jobs require the items they buy. > Just like you can deal damage without items, but that doesn't mean having more items doesn't make it more effective. Refer to for example or , they are literally items made for playmaking, and something most utility supports want. Less gold means diminished ability to obtain these. What in this is this difficult for you to comprehend? Only early game, once you hit mid game if your not building damage you won’t deal damage... you’ve lost your ability to do your job due to a lack of gold Supports are designed so when they hit the point where other champions need items to be useful they can be useful anyway, because their jobs don’t require scaling That’s why they build items that give utility, they don’t need the stats to do their jobs so they can invest in low stat items which gives them strong actives... cause their kits don’t need the additional help. > Just like you can deal damage without items, but that doesn't mean having more items doesn't make it more effective. Refer to for example or , they are literally items made for playmaking, and something most utility supports want. Less gold means diminished ability to obtain these. What in this is this difficult for you to comprehend? Shows how much you understand of the current supports... you realise it’s currently easier to get your first item. If engage supports want righteous glory they can get it faster than ever before. And yes they allow you to do more, if they didn’t what would be the point of them in the first place. But a support has been designed to not need them, yes when they get them they are much stronger but when they don’t have them they aren’t incapable of doing anything... unlike any other champion. > No it isn't. This is %%%%%%ed. Do you think that a blitz who uses roe to engage with e and then finish with a hook, or a flash hook to get another pick directly, is the same as a blitz who doesn't have the tool to create that initial pick? Of course not... I never said they where the same, please do pay attention before running your mouth. The capability to make these picks are built into his kit, blitz can do his job with or without items. With items he’s gonna have an easier time but without them he’s still fully capable of winning... a flash hook is a flash hook at any point in the game regardless of items. Of course with items they would get stronger, that’s a no brainer... but supports can do their jobs perfectly well without items, which can’t be said about any other role. > No it doesn't; most supports can and are used to create kills for your team. My initial climb with Janna was highly due to often rotating so that I could flank and ult enemies to my teammates -> cc them. Even with a passive supp you can create kills and picks - even soraka has a tool for this. Yeah no shit, support mains know that, you know that, I know that... but support is a very misconceived role, many people don’t know that and would play most supports extremly passively. Of players who want high action and penta kills (read most players) are gonna go for the high damage roles not support... even if you aren’t as back seat as believed it doesn’t matter, too many players believe that. > According to whom? I don't think there is a general consensus on this, such as there is for supports. You just pulled this out of your arse, did you not? There’s always been a general consensus on this... jungle has always been one of the most hated roles in the game along side support. > And according to whom they aren't liked for that? Their popularity has risen as they weren't just backwards cc bots but were allowed to actually make plays (not kills). > Look at all the Thresh mains that popped up ~s4. They were utility focused, but were liked for their playmaking ability. But that’s assuming all thresh mains used to play other roles, support remained extremely unpopular in S4 and have only really started shedding this recently with champions like pyke and Senna... damage champions And the thresh mains popped up because there was a high profile player becoming famous for him, notice how all of the most popular champions have a high elo one trick that people look up to... supports never really had that before (or since for that matter) > No, this is %%%%%%ed and show a clear lack of understanding of game mechanics. > It's like saying "but annie's tibbers does damage and stuns" Yes buying rylies gives you an AoE slow, but a support Annie is played for the stun not a slow given from an item... and in a game where a support Annie hasn’t gotten a rylies she’s not useless because she can still win the game for her team through a well placed ult. > So if I build a roe on blitz, and a gauntlet, I don't have more slows, and therefore more cc, and therefore more pick/peel potential? That is %%%%%%ed. You do have more pick potential... but blitz also has a lot of built in pick potential already in his kit, a blitz without items can still do his job throughout the entirety of the game. > They make them better in what they already do, and open new tools. This statement already contradicts what you are saying elsewhere, jesus christ. No it doesn’t contradict... it makes them better but baseline without items they are fully capable of doing everything they are picked for, they don’t need items to function... it’s obviously useful to buy items but in an environment where they don’t have it they won’t suffer like everyone else. > And..? The other scales and relies more heavily on it. That doesn't mean they both don't scale. Yes they both scale, but one has to scale in order to survive, the other doesn’t. > So if their income is directly nerfed, that isn't moving towards them having notably less income? Their income isn’t noticeably less, it’s less but it’s not a massive hit. And I never said it’s not them moving towards less income, but that’s a far stretch from them being ‘terribad’ as you put it. > Yet this doesn't mean they both don't become infinitely more powerful due to items. Comparing kits of two different champions in this case is silly, as neither of them is primarily a tank, but they both focus on creating picks. They are both tanks... doesn’t matter if they focus on picks, all tanks can create picks. And yes they become more powerful with items, but one champion is clearly designed to not require items to do his job... alistar can initiate fights and survive without any defensive items. > Okay. Blitzcrank and nautilus. Ready? Go. Easy. Blitz has his mana shield, this means that he can get more survivability from cheaper mana items than full tank items. Blitz’s pull also means he doesn’t need to wade into the middle of the enemy team so he can do his job on little to no defencive capabilities... he can initiate from the safety of his own team making defencive items less needed. Naut’s pull drags him into the enemy team unconditionally, so he does tend to want more items than a blitz > Just like nautilus can hook, e and ult without items, creating a pick or peeling. That doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from items. That is exactly my point, the reason Naut is played as a support is because his pick potential with R and Q is broken. He does not need items to create these picks or peels, though he’s more reliant than an actual traditional support (hence why he only became a thing after gold income for supports increased massively). Obviously his job gets easier with items, but he doesn’t need them to function. > Again, citation needed. I've pointed out why your arguments above are flawed multiple times. According to whom they are designed like that. I’ve alrwady explained it. As for the enchanters https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-314-notes This was the patch when support items where added, enchanter supports where modified to be more reliant on items in order to prevent them from becoming too strong with items. ___ You seem to have no clue what I’m actually saying so let me say it slowly for you Supports. Do. Get. Better. With. Items. But. They. Can. Function. Without. Them. No other role can do this... have a mid laner go into a fight with no items and they die, have a support go into a fight with no items and they do their job. Obviously with items they do it better but as a baseline they aren’t reliant on items to do their jobs... a artefact of them being designed for an environment when they don’t have gold.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=4aZ1bAzh,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-15T15:03:03.566+0000) > > No it’s not, you pointed out that you have to have gold to carry, No - I said it makes you more effective at carrying, and taking that away makes the ones who lose gold weaker. Which would be obvious for anyone who wasn't an idiot. Apparently it's not only constructing arguments with you, but also lack of reading comprehension. >supports don’t it’s a bonus to them. The same way it is for everybody else - you have failed to show why that it wouldn't be the case, as I will claim I already showed - multiple times, that it is. >You don’t pick a support based of what they can do with items. You do as much as you do with any champion - hell, itemization is wider on your support champs than it is on any other group - doesn't the fact alone, that you have a wider range of items to pick from depending on situations, than on other champions, that they have a great impact in the game. I haven't heard many people claim that most of the support items would be useless or that they lacked options - now compare that to adc who usually has 1 preferable build, which might occasionally differ in build order and with 1 item on different champs. > But they only help, it’s not a necessity. The same way as on others.... >Traditional supports have what they need to initiate or peel already in their kits, items just assist with them. Unlike litterally all other champions who their jobs require the items they buy. Like which champion gets more engage or anything from items, apart from damage and tankiness - which supports need just as well if they intend to perform those jobs. (Which would be obvious if income nerfs are made to reduce them in these areas...) > Only early game, once you hit mid game if your not building damage you won’t deal damage... you’ve lost your ability to do your job due to a lack of gold > Supports are designed so when they hit the point where other champions need items to be useful they can be useful anyway, because their jobs don’t require scaling Bs. Enemies gain more damage/tankiness/mobility, fights last longer/shorter depending, which means you need to be able to mitigate bursts/cc/pick faster., you need more mobility and cc to counter the enemy scalings, usually some tankiness as well to not get exploded. (It isn't rare for me to pick enemy supports as blitz, if they ignore this, because they are squishy. And yes, even tanky ones. "Oh but you wouldn't hook ali".. The amount of times I've done that, because it forces him to pop ulti there (Even if he survives) and he will be useless for two minutes after that. > That’s why they build items that give utility, they don’t need the stats to do their jobs so they can invest in low stat items which gives them strong actives... cause their kits don’t need the additional help. Utility items usually give minor tank stats, as well. More tank-focused ones don't build that much utility. It's almost as if you built what you needed. Why I build mobility over anything as something like blitz? Because I play for picks, and I tend to outmanouver my opponents - this is what I used as an example, as it's very familiar to me. That doesn't mean its the only way to play an utility support. > Shows how much you understand of the current supports... you realise it’s currently easier to get your first item. If engage supports want righteous glory they can get it faster than ever before. I never complained about getting my 1st item. I complained about getting my 2nd, and 3rd items. > And yes they allow you to do more, if they didn’t what would be the point of them in the first place. *facepalm* > But a support has been designed to not need them, yes when they get them they are much stronger but when they don’t have them they aren’t incapable of doing anything... unlike any other champion. You keep repeating that, but to claim they have been designed for thjat, and since you aren't the one who designed them, you'd need to cite someone who was in charge of designing them. Otherwise that's your own interpretation of something and can't be used to back up an argument. It's extremely annoying to argue with someone, who doesn't understand the basics of how arguments work... > I never said they where the same, please do pay attention before running your mouth. *Insert quote of you saying just that* Wait, I put them in the end. > The capability to make these picks are built into his kit, blitz can do his job with or without items. With items he’s gonna have an easier time but without them he’s still fully capable of winning... Just like a Caitlyn is capable of winning by dealing 300 damage in a fight isntead of 10000. That doesn't mean it's balanced or optimal. >a flash hook is a flash hook at any point in the game regardless of items. No it isn't. If you have 3 items to boost your movement speed, it is much more difficult for your opponent to predict you. You don't just throw it at them and it might hit or it might not, any decent player dodges those. The items are more than necessary to give you the ability to force plays. Blindly throwing shit at opponents might work in lower elo's. > Of course with items they would get stronger, that’s a no brainer... but supports can do their jobs perfectly well without items, which can’t be said about any other role. Based on what? > But that’s assuming all thresh mains used to play other roles, support remained extremely unpopular in S4 and have only really started shedding this recently with champions like pyke and Senna... damage champions Didn't you earlier say that the most popular supports atm are traditional ones..? How come, if senna and pyke are the ones that are liked..? >And yet most of the supports that are strong at the moment are traditional supports... top 10 most played are almost all traditional supports besides Naut, and the top 10 highest win rates maokai Is the only non traditional support... traditional supports are outcompeting mage supports on all fronts, and aren’t actually struggling all that much themselves. A few posts ago? :) Contradict yourself much? > > Yes buying rylies gives you an AoE slow, but a support Annie is played for the stun not a slow given from an item... Who does and who doesn't. On any decent level you NEED to evaluate the effect of items in to it. So they are played as much for the items they can use as they are for their abilities. > > You do have more pick potential... but blitz also has a lot of built in pick potential already in his kit, a blitz without items can still do his job throughout the entirety of the game. I'll be honest. If the enemy team isn't absolutely shit, he can't. Blitz only proper tool is outmanouvering his opponents. If you don't have way more mobility (and no, w isn't enough), you won't be able to force plays - against anyone who isn't completely shite, you won't hit those random q's, no matter how good you yourself are. Blitz isn't about hitting q's (just like most other supports aren't just about hitting their abilities). > > No it doesn’t contradict... it makes them better but baseline without items they are fully capable of doing everything they are picked for, they don’t need items to function... it’s obviously useful to buy items but in an environment where they don’t have it they won’t suffer like everyone else. *sigh* > Their income isn’t noticeably less, it’s less but it’s not a massive hit. They can hardly hit their 3rd item in 40+ minute games for the most part... Yes. It's a massive hit. > And yes they become more powerful with items, but one champion is clearly designed to not require items to do his job... alistar can initiate fights and survive without any defensive items. *citation* > > Easy. > Blitz has his mana shield, this means that he can get more survivability from cheaper mana items than full tank items. Mana crystal costs 350 gold and gives 250 mana. Ruby crystal costs 400 gold and gives 150 health. Blitz nowadays gains 30% of his max mana with his passive (used to be 50% or *current*, which was worse for the most part) each point of effective hp gained by buying mana: 250*0.3/350 = 0,214 health per gold, each point of effective hp gained by buying health: 150/400 = 0,375 health per gold And this is considering that his passive has a cooldown. Hell, for the most part non-supports get higher defensive bonunses; Malphite gains 10% of his maxhp as a shield by his passive, with a much lower cooldown (Idk if you play malphite, but it was my 2nd most played back in the days, and it is common to abuse the passive to trade in bursts, as it would allow you to do that) And he gains bonus armor, and slows enemy attack speeds. Mundo heals - he also has way higher base damages than any supports. For the most part, if you actually bothered to check, champions get more buffs according to their role. Much more than most supports get. > Blitz’s pull also means he doesn’t need to wade into the middle of the enemy team so he can do his job on little to no defencive capabilities... He literally needs to do that, as anyone who isn't absolutely garbage in this game can avoid the hooks - it's not about your skills to hit random Q's from range without setting it up with movement speed/rotations (which requires items) If you watched any high elo blitz players, you'd see them more often use e before they use their q, for this very reason. (Exceptions happen more while defending and laning, but for the most of the game) > > You seem to have no clue what I’m actually saying so let me say it slowly for you > > Supports. Do. Get. Better. With. Items. But. They. Can. Function. Without. Them. Just. Like. Anything. Else. You. Haven't. Showed. As. To. Why. That. Would. Not. Be. The. Case. Shortened it quite a bit as the boards don't allow that long posts.
: > So what's your argument with this. I said they have too little gold (since gold is related to carryability) and you respond with "but they aren't completely useless without it". What's the point of arguing this then? Because your confusing the definition of carryability. Being able to carry isn’t having more stats or dealing a lot of damage... it’s doing something that directly influences the outcome of the game. Warding can cause you to carry, if knowledge from your ward wins you the game you carried... don’t need gold for that Protecting your carry means you carried, supports don’t need items to help with that they’ve got the utility built in Initiating the game winning fight or getting the game winning pick is carrying, that just needs cc you can do that without items Gold is only related to the carry potential of damage oriented lanes... in a utility focused role your carry potential is already built into your kit. > Yes. And as the general consensus goes, the supports were the ones generally disliked, not junglers. Because exactly like I said supports take a back seat in carrying, their ability to do some comes from protection rather than killing. And your saying that like jungler where liked... still the second least liked role. > Nobody in their right minds would play utility supports for kills. They are playmakers, not carries. That's the whole idea of it. That’s exactly what I’m saying, utility supports don’t kill... that’s why they aren’t liked. > Soooo, you just prove my point here... But your proving my point that it’s got nothing to do with gold it’s how it’s played... support became more popular when champions like Senna and pyke appeared. > It depends on what you define as what they 'need' to do.... So this isn't actually saying anything. Playmaking... exactly as what you’ve said. If a rakan makes an initiation that initiation will be largely the same with or without items (especially as rakan doesn’t build tanky stats), his ability to do his job of creating fights and picks favourable to his job is completely untouched Same with all supports... what they do comes from their own kit... they aren’t there to deal damage, and those that absorb damage have the strongest defencive abilities in the game to compensate. > Just as much for any other champions, as it changes the way they play even more than on any other champions... No it doesn’t... a support does the exact same with or without gold... their items are active abilities which gives them other jobs they can attempt to do. And not as much as other abilities... an adc without gold is useless, a support without gold is useful. > And on utility supports you would never do that unless you're a bronzie. No shit Sherlock... I was talking about mage supports in that sentence... that’s why they became a thing in the first place. > My point here wasn't to be taken literally - I was pointing out that this is a giant leap towards making supports terribad again. Except it’s not... support income is still infinitely better than it was, and supports are not suffering as much as people make them out to be. We are no where near what it used to be, and this isn’t a giant leap backwards, nor forwards.., it’s a side step. > According to whom they were designed like that..? Just because they used to operate with less income doesn't mean they were designed for it. That's called a naturalistic fallacy. So I assume you’ve not taken the initiative and compared a support to a non support. Let’s take alistar and Naut... a champion designed as a support and one that isn’t. Look at their defencive capabilities. Naut has a shield which scales with max health, his durability relies on items as he uses a scaling in order to become tanky... without items he’s not that durable Alistar has an ult which gives him an unconditional 55/65/75% damage reduction for the duration, his durability is not reliant on items and he will be tanky without them. Obviously if he buys tanky stats he will be even tankier but he doesn’t need them at all he can do his job without any tank items The same comparisons can be made with any support compared to non supports... what you pick them for does not in anyway require items, or they have tools to be useful without these items. I don’t need someone to tell me this because it’s extremely obvious. For enchanters this has changed a little as when supports started to get an income their kits where changed to accomidate them having gold, but the champions themselves where designed to not need it and if this is the direction Riot is going changing them accordingly will be easy This is also why every time a support has left the support role Riot have nerfed them out of it... as champions who are designed to not need gold they can become extremly powerful when they get gold, especially tank supports.
For a Tl;dr, just read the last 3 quotes. > [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=4aZ1bAzh,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-15T02:02:51.188+0000) > > Because your confusing the definition of carryability. Being able to carry isn’t having more stats or dealing a lot of damage... it’s doing something that directly influences the outcome of the game. That's literally what I said multiple times already, and pointed out that traditional supports do get a lot of more tools with gold. What are you arguing here..? > > Warding can cause you to carry, if knowledge from your ward wins you the game you carried... don’t need gold for that You can have information of your opponent without wards (look at sk when they were dominant). But also all supports tend to ward. That's, actually, the one good thing with the support items. > Protecting your carry means you carried, supports don’t need items to help with that they’ve got the utility built in First off, there are many ways to peel, and items allow more of this, but also transform how you can play in many ways. You can use for example rg both defensively and offensively. But a lot of utility supports are not only known for peeling (which, read, makes you dependent on your carries), but for their playmaking - these usually go hand in hand. Gold tends to help the playmaking part more (but can work for both, for exmaple I use rg both offensively and defensively). > Initiating the game winning fight or getting the game winning pick is carrying, that just needs cc you can do that without items Just like you can deal damage without items, but that doesn't mean having more items doesn't make it more effective. Refer to for example {{item:2065}} or {{item:3800}} , they are literally items made for playmaking, and something most utility supports want. Less gold means diminished ability to obtain these. What in this is this difficult for you to comprehend? > > Gold is only related to the carry potential of damage oriented lanes... in a utility focused role your carry potential is already built into your kit. No it isn't. This is %%%%%%ed. Do you think that a blitz who uses rg to engage with e and then finish with a hook, or a flash hook to get another pick directly, is the same as a blitz who doesn't have the tool to create that initial pick? Of course not... Saying that would be %%%%%%ed and show that you've never actually played any utility supports and have absolutely no clue as to how they operate. > > Because exactly like I said supports take a back seat in carrying, their ability to do some comes from protection rather than killing. No it doesn't; most supports can and are used to create kills for your team. My initial climb with Janna was highly due to often rotating so that I could flank and ult enemies to my teammates -> cc them. Even with a passive supp you can create kills and picks - even soraka has a tool for this. > > And your saying that like jungler where liked... still the second least liked role. According to whom? I don't think there is a general consensus on this, such as there is for supports. You just pulled this out of your arse, did you not? > > That’s exactly what I’m saying, utility supports don’t kill... that’s why they aren’t liked. And according to whom they aren't liked for that? Their popularity has risen as they weren't just backwards cc bots but were allowed to actually make plays (not kills). Look at all the Thresh mains that popped up ~s4. They were utility focused, but were liked for their playmaking ability. > > But your proving my point that it’s got nothing to do with gold it’s how it’s played... support became more popular when champions like Senna and pyke appeared. Only in a world that operates on the %%%%%%ed premise you're trying to push, which is provably false. > > Playmaking... exactly as what you’ve said. > > If a rakan makes an initiation that initiation will be largely the same with or without items (especially as rakan doesn’t build tanky stats), his ability to do his job of creating fights and picks favourable to his job is completely untouched > > Same with all supports... what they do comes from their own kit... they aren’t there to deal damage, and those that absorb damage have the strongest defencive abilities in the game to compensate. No, this is %%%%%%ed and show a clear lack of understanding of game mechanics. It's like saying "but annie's tibbers does damage and stuns" Yeah, but if you build a rylais on it, the dot procs the slow as an aoe. The amount of cc added is insane. The play, after that, and the playmaking ability, are night and day. Same goes for ANY champion. > > No it doesn’t... a support does the exact same with or without gold... So if I build a rg on blitz, and a gauntlet, I don't have more slows, and therefore more cc, and therefore more pick/peel potential? That is %%%%%%ed. >their items are active abilities which gives them other jobs they can attempt to do. They make them better in what they already do, and open new tools. This statement already contradicts what you are saying elsewhere, jesus christ. > And not as much as other abilities... an adc without gold is useless, a support without gold is useful. And..? The other scales and relies more heavily on it. That doesn't mean they both don't scale. "because x*(a+1) > y*(b+1), therefore only x increases" That is just dumb. > > No shit Sherlock... I was talking about mage supports in that sentence... that’s why they became a thing in the first place. And I'm all for nerfing them. That isn't justification for making supports to be unable to build items. > > Except it’s not... support income is still infinitely better than it was, and supports are not suffering as much as people make them out to be. We are no where near what it used to be, and this isn’t a giant leap backwards, nor forwards.., it’s a side step. So if their income is directly nerfed, that isn't moving towards them having notably less income? Okay.mov Sound and logical arguing there. > > So I assume you’ve not taken the initiative and compared a support to a non support. Yes, of course I haven't. Having played since season 1, totaling thousands of games and a ton of theorycrafting, and maining support for a large portion of it, I have never thought of what makes these different. > > Let’s take alistar and Naut... a champion designed as a support and one that isn’t. Look at their defencive capabilities. > Naut has a shield which scales with max health, his durability relies on items as he uses a scaling in order to become tanky... without items he’s not that durable > Alistar has an ult which gives him an unconditional 55/65/75% damage reduction for the duration, his durability is not reliant on items and he will be tanky without them. Obviously if he buys tanky stats he will be even tankier but he doesn’t need them at all he can do his job without any tank items Yet this doesn't mean they both don't become infinitely more powerful due to items. Comparing kits of two different champions in this case is silly, as neither of them is primarily a tank, but they both focus on creating picks. > > The same comparisons can be made with any support compared to non supports... Okay. Blitzcrank and nautilus. Ready? Go. >what you pick them for does not in anyway require items, or they have tools to be useful without these items. I don’t need someone to tell me this because it’s extremely obvious. Just like nautilus can hook, e and ult without items, creating a pick or peeling. That doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from items. > > For enchanters this has changed a little as when supports started to get an income their kits where changed to accomidate them having gold, but the champions themselves where designed to not need it and if this is the direction Riot is going changing them accordingly will be easy Again, citation needed. I've pointed out why your arguments above are flawed multiple times. According to whom they are designed like that. Let's see some quotes from you: > > This is also why every time a support has left the support role Riot have nerfed them out of it... as champions who are designed to not need gold they can become extremly powerful when they get gold, especially tank supports. Also you: > If a rakan makes an initiation that initiation will be largely the same with or without items (especially as rakan doesn’t build tanky stats), his ability to do his job of creating fights and picks favourable to his job is completely untouched ..-.. > Gold is only related to the carry potential of damage oriented lanes... in a utility focused role your carry potential is already built into your kit. > No it doesn’t... a support does the exact same with or without gold... Consistency 10/10. Arguments 10/10 Go back to school, you need it. I think I lost 20 points of iq reading your posts.
: > I never said they aren't better than non-traditional when they have no gold. I said they have plenty of uses for gold. Everyone has plenty of uses for gold, it doesn’t change the fact that traditional supports can do their jobs with very low income, they are obviously better with gold but they are completely viable without > Jungler was never unpopular back then, despite of having a lot of focus on supporting. Never said jungle wasn’t, but what is meta doesn’t mean it’s what many players enjoy. > Not if you're an utility support. Especially if your a utility support... why do you think mage supports became a thing in the first place they where never more effective than actual supports they just let non support players go support and still deal damage > That doesn't mean they don't need gold - reverting them back to the stage where they were in season 1. > Just because everything but X is shit in something, doesn't mean that X is good at it. They don’t need gold, they like gold but a support can do what they need to do without gold... gold has always been a bonus for them, at least it used to until support income got so big that they could even go for full damage items. And it’s not a revert... supports still have an actual income for most of the game, and with more ambient gold in the game than before they income is still way higher than S1. Traditional supports where designed to thrive with incomes half of what we currentky get... that’s a fact and even without gold supports can do everything they need to do perfectly well
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=4aZ1bAzh,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-14T18:14:57.712+0000) > > Everyone has plenty of uses for gold, it doesn’t change the fact that traditional supports can do their jobs with very low income, they are obviously better with gold but they are completely viable without So what's your argument with this. I said they have too little gold (since gold is related to carryability) and you respond with "but they aren't completely useless without it". What's the point of arguing this then? At best its your opinion versus my opinion. > > Never said jungle wasn’t, but what is meta doesn’t mean it’s what many players enjoy. Yes. And as the general consensus goes, the supports were the ones generally disliked, not junglers. Could you figure out any reasons why that might've been? > > Especially if your a utility support... Nobody in their right minds would play utility supports for kills. They are playmakers, not carries. That's the whole idea of it. >why do you think mage supports became a thing in the first place they where never more effective than actual supports they just let non support players go support and still deal damage Soooo, you just prove my point here... > > They don’t need gold, they like gold but a support can do what they need to do without gold... It depends on what you define as what they 'need' to do.... So this isn't actually saying anything. >gold has always been a bonus for them, Just as much for any other champions, as it changes the way they play even more than on any other champions... >at least it used to until support income got so big that they could even go for full damage items. And on utility supports you would never do that unless you're a bronzie. > And it’s not a revert... supports still have an actual income for most of the game, and with more ambient gold in the game than before they income is still way higher than S1. My point here wasn't to be taken literally - I was pointing out that this is a giant leap towards making supports terribad again. > > Traditional supports where designed to thrive with incomes half of what we currentky get... According to whom they were designed like that..? Just because they used to operate with less income doesn't mean they were designed for it. That's called a [naturalistic fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy)
: > No they weren't. I already argued with you over this earlier, so cba to repeat the points. You do realize they changed that specifically, with traditional supports in mind, to begin with. Glad you remember, don’t have to repeat myself either. Doesn’t matter if you believe or not you only have to compare a traditional support to a non support to realise I’m right > There is a reason why support was the most hated class in early seasons - and no, its not because utility ain't fun to play (considering support junglers were meta back then) Because people hate giving up the carry role... it’s got nothing to do with effectiveness people don’t like it when they have to take a back seat and not be in the lime light. And even if support jungler where meta back then that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be hated, that’s why carries are always the most popular And support has always been the least popular role regardless of how much gold they give for the same reason, people wanna be the ones getting kills and being in the spotlight > It will make them much weaker all the same. You can trump down non traditional supports without %%%%ing up all the supports. And yet most of the supports that are strong at the moment are traditional supports... top 10 most played are almost all traditional supports besides Naut, and the top 10 highest win rates maokai Is the only non traditional support... traditional supports are outcompeting mage supports on all fronts, and aren’t actually struggling all that much themselves. People wanted mage supports to go and they became a thing because supports got the income to build full ap without being punished... the way mage supports go and traditional supports regain control is to limit their income
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=4aZ1bAzh,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-14T17:26:03.755+0000) > > Glad you remember, don’t have to repeat myself either. Doesn’t matter if you believe or not you only have to compare a traditional support to a non support to realise I’m right I never said they aren't better than non-traditional when they have no gold. I said they have plenty of uses for gold. > > Because people hate giving up the carry role... >it’s got nothing to do with effectiveness people don’t like it when they have to take a back seat and not be in the lime light. So much so that they would play that in two positions, because thats the way they could carry. > And even if support jungler where meta back then that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be hated, that’s why carries are always the most popular Jungler was never unpopular back then, despite of having a lot of focus on supporting. > > And support has always been the least popular role regardless of how much gold they give for the same reason, people wanna be the ones getting kills and being in the spotlight Not if you're an utility support. > > And yet most of the supports that are strong at the moment are traditional supports... top 10 most played are almost all traditional supports besides Naut, and the top 10 highest win rates maokai Is the only non traditional support... traditional supports are outcompeting mage supports on all fronts, and aren’t actually struggling all that much themselves. That doesn't mean they don't need gold - reverting them back to the stage where they were in season 1. Just because everything but X is shit in something, doesn't mean that X is good at it. > > People wanted mage supports to go and they became a thing because supports got the income to build full ap without being punished... the way mage supports go and traditional supports regain control is to limit their income Or, like, limit the damage and buff the utility. Like it was done originally.
: Traditional supports are the ones designed to not need items, the reason non traditional supports like mages actually work is that supports where getting enough gold to afford full ap builds... decreasing gold won’t kill traditional supports but it would hamper non traditional supports in a major way.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=4aZ1bAzh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-01-14T02:46:58.166+0000) > > Traditional supports are the ones designed to not need items, the reason non traditional supports like mages actually work is that supports where getting enough gold to afford full ap builds... No they weren't. I already argued with you over this earlier, so cba to repeat the points. You do realize they changed that specifically, with traditional supports in mind, to begin with. There is a reason why support was the most hated class in early seasons - and no, its not because utility ain't fun to play (considering support junglers were meta back then) >decreasing gold won’t kill traditional supports but it would hamper non traditional supports in a major way. It will make them much weaker all the same. You can trump down non traditional supports without %%%%ing up all the supports.
Morrhen (EUW)
: Sounds sweet to me. Certainly a way to have people playing utility based champions. Similar to Nami buff, which for now increased her pickrate, while giving her some power as an enchanter. Works for both sides. Utility based champions get their skills improved or buffed, while damage based ones sneak in couple of kills during teamfights (without any buff to them). Still more likely than Riot giving them gold income. I think they're too committed to this 'free supp item' thing.
Yeah, but we'll end up having the same problems with ap supps as before, if just gold is added. I think ap supps are boring as they make the adc much more useless early on, whereas utility supports make them more useful, and the lane is fun to play for all. But that is of course just my point of view.
LËÅF (EUW)
: Game has turned into a question of who can delete who the quickest
"We need to reduce the amount of damage in the game" - Riot games 2019 *buffs assassins*
Squallsy (EUW)
: Play a support who is viable without gold then? like Thresh
I mean, I've always played cheesy shite like blitz (blitz main actually). Just because your main tool doesn't need gold to be effective, that doesn't mean you can't use gold. A blitz with no items vs a blitz with mobi's and rg and gauntlet and knight's vow and locket..... It's like the difference between day and night.
Morrhen (EUW)
: Riot likely expects you to be compensated by those two or three kills you manage to secure or ''secure''. To be fair, seems like Riot listened and gave us back Mana/HP regen. So, slight victory. This system rewards supports which need bare minimum to function, while shoves away others. That's why people pick such champions as Blitzcrank, Leona, Nautilus, Tresh, Janna etc. They do the job on bare gold minimum, since it's their abilities which matter. Not the gear. Gear makes their abilities just better. Now you gotta ask how likely is it for Riot to give supports further gold income, while not turning certain supps into carries.
Well how about buffing utility over damage on supps for a change then? Utility supports have been shat on for years, despite of them being very rare at many points.
: Where is Gold supposed to come from for Supports?
This is what I asked when the change came up.. Some %%%%%%ed rito knight replies ensued. "Oh you don't need items durr durr" And anyone who has ever actively played support, understands that this is just to %%%% up traditional supports even further, since they weren't played scarcely enough as is.
Morrhen (EUW)
: Of course it's still punishable offense. So is leaving or going afk right now. Now imagine situation where your team has nothing to lose when one quits. It simply won't work. As for stat increase - yeah, it's also very easy to abuse. Really, ANY form of compensation of for missing member can be abused. That's why it's been 10 years and there's no system for it. It sucks when it happens but nothing can be done about it.
> [{quoted}](name=Morrhen,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=bWnGkL1w,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2020-01-13T13:59:38.862+0000) > > Of course it's still punishable offense. So is leaving or going afk right now. > Now imagine situation where your team has nothing to lose when one quits. It simply won't work. How would it affect it - the one losing gets banned just the same, and anyone flaming gets banned. Therefore, people have no incentive to leave or to flame. They simply have more to lose with a system like this. This is the type of punishment that promotes good behavior, and punishes bad behavior - don't break the rules, you keep your lp. Break the rules, get banned and lose lp. > > Really, ANY form of compensation of for missing member can be abused. Not true. > That's why it's been 10 years and there's no system for it. It sucks when it happens but nothing can be done about it. "Because it is so, it should be so" - that's a fallacy, btw. Its been 10 years, because rito is a shit company. And yes, you can do things about it.
Radegost (EUW)
: I completely agree, this is going in totally wrong direction. I ended same gold III last season. Now I start placements get two bronze on my frist two games, losing and being placed in bronze.... basically I will never climb even close to where I was, even if I win all 8 games. This is totally wrong. Starcraft for example, never lets u drop this much and their point system is 1000x times better. Feel so sad, where this came, bascially as you said, so that keeps players active and they make money. Every season feel sad for investing so much time and money in this corporation. It's pure robery, they do so little for the players.
Yup. That's why I stopped playing as well - No point for me to invest so many hours of my life to reobtaining a rank I don't care about.
Volter98 (EUW)
: sound good doesn't work
That's just the definition of constructive criticism.
Morrhen (EUW)
: It's not hard to imagine that someone who's non-premade would simply quit the game or go afk, once they start losing the game. Hell, it would even reinforce mentality of ''We are losing, I'm gonna quit and there's no drawback for you guys. Enjoy'' It's never gonna happen. The most probable thing Riot could do, if they ever wanted to tackle this, is to give percentage stat boost to all players if the leaver/afker is present in the game. To balance out the fact that you're in 4v5 situation.
> [{quoted}](name=Morrhen,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=bWnGkL1w,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-01-12T20:19:27.065+0000) > > It's not hard to imagine that someone who's non-premade would simply quit the game or go afk, once they start losing the game. > Hell, it would even reinforce mentality of ''We are losing, I'm gonna quit and there's no drawback for you guys. Enjoy''´ You kind of forget, that it is still a punishable offence - if you are ready to get banned for that. > > It's never gonna happen. > The most probable thing Riot could do, if they ever wanted to tackle this, is to give percentage stat boost to all players if the leaver/afker is present in the game. To balance out the fact that you're in 4v5 situation. Now this would be MUCH easier to abuse.
Aquanarga (EUW)
: I guess there could be an argument for tilted people just starting to int (making sure you lose the game) rather than "just" go afk, but I'm not sure how to abuse this when climbing? Flaming teammates till they leave maybe, but mute all exists for that reason.
And the system should be improved to ban inters more actively. Can't really go anywhere if you argue that fixing rule A breaks rule B Doesn't that just mean that then you also need to enforce rule B.
: 1: make it so that people who play duo both get punished if the other leaves (you decided to play with them) 2: mute all exists 3: actively holding people back because their teammates afk is a garbage system
For the 1st part, just make the other lose lp normally - not other punishments.
: 1- Because people would abuse of it by playing on premades to 1 afk if was almost 100% a lose making other don't lose lp who would be used to boost people 2- People instead try do a comeback would try make one if teammates go afk to they don't lose lp 3- To much Lp on game if people win 100 (20 each) and only lose 20(the afk) all people will increase the Lp who will made they get high ranks so eventually all people would rank up.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitty Girl,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=bWnGkL1w,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-12T18:44:24.096+0000) > > 1- Because people would abuse of it by playing on premades to 1 afk if was almost 100% a lose making other don't lose lp who would be used to boost people Pointed out by others as to how this is preventable > 2- People instead try do a comeback would try make one if teammates go afk to they don't lose lp So because fixing people breaking rule A makes people break rule B, then we can't fix rule A? How about we instead properly punish people for breaking rule B, and any rules in general... > 3- To much Lp on game if people win 100 (20 each) and only lose 20(the afk) all people will increase the Lp who will made they get high ranks so eventually all people would rank up. Not really, as pointed out, mmr would balance it out. Isn't the argument people like you usually make, that 'oh but 1 leaver in 100 games doesn't affect your mmr'...? Wouldn't it be the case in this too, then?
PurpleOrk (EUW)
: Indie company, don't be so harsh.
Yeah. Can't expect such a small company to have or invest their scarce resources to make sure their product works. You should just be thankful you get to buy new skins weekly, and wait patiently for them to have the time to fix these, be it a week or ten years.
Wolity (EUW)
: " i want to carry the game " mentality can lose you a lot of games
This is what I've said is the biggest problem, most so in gold players (my opinion), but also happens a lot elsewhere. It is so annoying.
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: First they should reset s10 more then just "soft reset" so we dont get shitty garbage 45% winrate players in diamond+ And the last think maybe remove conqueror too.I hate bruiser meta.Idc that we get back tank meta or ardent or assasins ...those were playable and more fun then this shit.
And nerf assassins too while at it. They've always been cancer. Conq is the worst of all tho
: > [{quoted}](name=LËÅF,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vn1waicm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-04T18:13:24.442+0000) > > couldn't agree more, this trash matchmaker makes games super 1 sided then %%%s you over when you hit promos. its a complete casino. and too many bs champs who just one shot you and have stupid mobility, makes flash kinda useless nowadays When will people understand that is not only the matchmaking? It s this blown up meta. One mistake and you re blown up in a matter of milliseconds. I mean a {{champion:107}} or {{champion:105}} just touches you and you see you died in 0.3 s. No human being can do something about that. Also one their page you see those words: OUTPLAY OUTTHINK. How is that outplay? This meta is disgusting and making up a reason for that: "We balance around the pro play". Yeah sure RITO, everyone getting blown up is an excuse for that. Champions that are broken right now had their kit for many years but damage is the problem and the lack of CD. It s easier to get 40% CDR than trying to avoid getting CDR. Time to play other games guys they only want us to buy skins, event passes and chests they give 0 fks about balance and making games enjoyable.
Its not even balanced in pro play, though. They balance it around flashy plays.
: dont forget the dragons also, best jungler = auto win and fed teams getting inposible to win against with dragon stats.
Tbh jungler alone won't do drakes, but on a larger scale the whole team, and bottom too will need to cooperate. (Not in lower elos but the higher you go). I still have nightmares of when I was jungling in gold on my smurfs.
Robjen03 (EUW)
: LoL is just pathetic now
Yup. That's what happens when you focus on mechanics over strategy, and trump solocarryability.
: Riot's new philosophy: Create disgustingly overpowered champions (Senna, Aphelios)
DenBettes (EUW)
: Unpopular Boards Opinion: Matchmaking & winrates
> [{quoted}](name=DenBettes,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=bKRIgFzn,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-03T15:49:53.730+0000) > > Allright, lately I've been kinda lazy at work and I've been scrolling through LoL Boards/Forums quite a lot. > I came to the conclusion that many of you (excluding some individuals that do actually care) tend to disagree with a lot that Riot stands for and does towards our beloved game. > > I'm not going to go too in-depth on every single aspect, but i did feel like clarifying something that came up so many times: > 'Matchmaking is busted' and 'Riot forces you to have 50% winrate' > > Matchmaking is busted: > As I've read through the comments, most of you disagree with how matchmaking works. > Usually you blame the fact that there are smurfs. If there's no smurfs you complain that every team has atleast one feeder, and so on and so on. Afaik the problem is not even that much that there are feeders. The problem is more so that one big enough feeder can lose the game, whereas it is near impossible to solocarry. This makes you kind of a hostage to your team. "Oh but if you're good enough" There are plenty of pro's and/or ex pro's saying the same thing. Nobody says you can't climb if you play a large enough set of games, and yes, your personal skills probably affects it. That doesn't mean its not a problem when someone goes 0 22, and you can't carry despite of being 10 0, because how the game works. Obviously, in such a case the one going 0 22 is mismatched. > > A good lesson for all of us (including myself) would be: sometimes we are one of those feeders ourselves. (Just think about it). Not really. > That being said; Matchmaking is a mathematical formula based on tons of different statisticall things (no, not just Hidden MMR) Source please :) >but you cannot ask from a computer to separate two identical accounts (let's say gold IV with +- 450 games) because one of them is a booster playing on that specific account. There hardly are two 'identical' accounts, unless you've played less than 10 games, considering how many variables there are in the game. >r someone who got there due to decay (talking about high elo now) and has to climb back. Matchmaking is based on mmr, not your rank. (And mmr doesn't decay) Therefore it would be able to easily distinguish between those two. > > Sure, you could blame Riot for not handeling smurfs, but that's another discussion i'm not willing to go over in this post. > Knowing this, i think Matchmaking does a damn good job in trying to make the game as 50/50 as possible. And that's what Matchmaking is about: making it as close to a 50/50 for both sides !AT THE BEGINNING! And how does it try to make it 50 50..? There are different ways of balancing, and focusing on just the end goal doesn't mean its a good system. > If you bring me the argument: "but hey, DenBettes, my botlane, midlane, jungle, top is allready 0-2 before 5 mins" i will just ignore that and respond to people who actually try to think with me here. The outcome of your game is decided by 10 online players being influenced by a milion different things, but please, don't be ignorant to say that it's matchmakings fault. And what if it is? You're going to ignore me? Lmao. Lets see: Two players, both have same mmr. Other has lost his last 10 games Other has won his last 10 games Focusing on mmr, thats an even matchup. Are you saying you wouldn't care which one you get in your team? > If you read carefully, you now understand that this is just an example of 'big numbers and data' combined with skillcap. Stop trying to blame a company for actually having a right system. > They should consider more variables in their matchmaking.
: I think Riot is releasing too many champions in a small space of time, which often results in a lack of resources aimed towards diagnosing problems in the game. I wonder how much "time" Riot will spend on this game once their 8 other projects are released, because I see very little problems being resolved and we're not even scratching the surface.
I think they've already dug the grave for league :/
: nerf cassiopeia with conq
or just remove conq. Cancer rune anyways.
Show more

Father Tios

Level 133 (EUNE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion