Eambo (EUW)
: [EUNE] Pool Party Recruitment Thread and Chat Room
[Server]: EUNE [Summoner Name]: Tolumbas [Level]:30 [Additional Info]: Gold 2 Won't jungle
: Why so much talk about AFK ?? One game your team has afk, secend game opponent has afk...It is equally, so you are actually losing nothing
I get this question often, but this article is about the individual game, not the avarege. Read this if you are still confused :) http://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/hFhi49ff-reduced-lp-loss-for-the-teammates-when-a-player-afk?comment=000b0000
: They won't do it, and they've said it time and time again that they won't, due to it making players force others to leave to lose less LP for a loss. It would actually make the game become MORE toxic. They should just give players a short but immediate ranked ban for an AFK/leave. So whether ragequit or powercut or whatever, they need to play like 5 games before they can be let back into ranked. Then if they continue afterwards increase the AFK ranked ban time.
Nice point! But it wouldn't be done, because if you try to "frendly fire", you will get banned because of it. Also the penalties for troll, flame, insult and etc. are much more painfull than the 10LP you'll lose. **You put your account on high risk for low reward**. Also your suggestion won't solve the problem that I am fighting against - mercy for the non-AFKs.
: I have posted something like this b4. Half the LP loss for all players at the end of the game that has not left. All the lp loss forgiven will be added to the leavers and split. If the leavers are B5 with 0 LP they have to win 50 bot games b4 they are allowed to play ranked again. Let the punishment fit the crime let the players that deal with the ods against them know for every 1 that stays the afk will get punished harder and if they win the lp he would have gotten get shared.
Yes, that is another way to do it.
Wukongz (EUNE)
: ***
Nice point, but** the winners didn't chose to play 5v4**, so why would you punish them? And I don't think LP punishment for the winning team is essential, but **only optional**. Also I think **noone will like "win prevetion"**, will you? So **why would you add something that is optional, when noone will like it**? Also the win prevetion will lead to troll and **abuse** ("oh, I am playing vs this dude again! Screw him! I'm out of here!").
feuerbach (EUW)
: Sure it would be nice, but there is major downside; I like to call it **friendly fire: You would save some points, if you troll, flame, insult etc. teammates to rage quit!** Not worth it IMO, I appreciate your effort though.
**Nice point!** But it wouldn't be done, because if you try to "frendly fire", you will get banned because of it. Also the penalties for troll, flame, insult and etc. are much more painfull than the 10LP you'll lose. You put your account on** high risk for low reward**.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rawres,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=KeWNO3xl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-11T19:50:37.544+0000) > > "Removed host options from custom games because of a bug allowing players to use those options for ranked games." > > I would expect such. Well, anything else Riot could do, is just parse it. If they don't know what if ($gametype == "ranked") { show_ranked_only(); } elseif ($gametype == "custom") { show_custom_options(); } Means, I feel seriously bad for them.
Let us show it them in diffrent languages, to have choices :P if (message.getText() == "/respawn" && game.mode.getName() == "custom"){this.respawn();} \#wow \#muchcpp \#muchbrakets \#OOP ;P
: Something like this?
Why should you even concider giving mercy or not? What did the players did to decerve no mercy? I think that will be very cruel for the innicent player that didn't chosed his fate. Sorry for the late responce.
CommName (EUNE)
: How can a computer detect "how did he affect the game" I think it should be like this:how much a player has been afk/ 2 x how long was the game (btw sry for bad English)
I think the exact percetige, is Riot's job to decide. (Sry for the late responce)
FaoilT (EUNE)
: LP loss means nothing compared to mmr loss. And decreasing mmr loss would collapse the system. Before you ask, no the afk player can't take the entire team's mmr/lp loss himself because that would propably hurt random disconnections way too hard. Also the flame towards the player that fed his lane to force him leave....
Sorry for the late responce. Nice point, though. When I ask for the LP reduction, I also (secretly, because the MMR is "secret") want to make those games with AFK to be** ignored by the MMR system** (like loss prevented). This will make it easier to win back your LP (bacause your MMR is higher).
JakiStow (EUW)
: You lose games because a player was afk, but you also win games when it happens to the other team. Given the very high number of players in this game, the probability for each scenario is 50/50, so it evens out. Please think a bit and stop whining about this, it doesn't matter at all in your ranking.
Sorry for the late responce. I am well informed, that there are AFKs in the opposite team, and concidering that you will not AFK, the chance is 44% to have afk in your team and 55% to be in the enemy.** But that is not the point that I am trying to make!** I am talking for the **individual game** and individual experience. **Noone likes to have AFK in his team** with **98% chance of loosing it**. On top of that **your MMR and LP get affected by the loss**, witch is double or triple punishment for the innocent player that didn't chosed his fate. Yes, the LP and MMR it evens out, but the **bad** experiences are remebered more vividly and more prolongly than the **good** once.
: No one cares, Please fuck off with your issue.
: Sorry but RIots don't care about afkers, flamers and leavers. It's a purely one-sided game afterwards, you get no benefits, Leaver gets no punishment and Enemy team gets free LP and win. As simple as it is.
: I think that you are totally right. I have tried that so many times now, it's beginning to be annyiong. Riot please do this as the man says, sounds like one of the best idea for a long time.
: until the day that Riot invents a way to tell if a person left intentionally or not (this includes resetting internet to simulate a lost connection) this will never happen. =/
There is no need for finding the reason for his disconnection. Even if it isn't his fault, if he had been AFK 50% of the game, obviosly he is influencing the outcome of the game and there is no point in punishing the rest of his team.
: Everyone saying it wouldn't work cause it would be abused. Simply punish only the player who went afk. Do you really think that in solo que, someone is going to afk and lose TWICE the LP and a series if they are in it (as an example punishment) just so those guys he' known for 20 minutes can avoid some LP loss themselves? I know what you're thinking now, what about a duo que buddy, he might do it for that, easy fix, duo's get punished equally, even if one of them afk'd. This way you get no benefit from AFK'ing whatsoever, and it means that losses are prevented. I was in my series last night, I was on 2 wins and 2 losses, so I'm not too angry that I lost, I can get to again no problem, but I lost because I had 2 afk's, a little loss prevention there would be nice. Better yet, why not just change the ranked system so it takes into account other stats other than a win and a loss? Because I don't see how a win or a loss shows individual skill, at all, in any way whatsoever.
You missed my point. I haven't talked for any chage of the punishments for the AFK player they are the same, only for the rest of his team. And yes, I've tought for the Duo partner and there isn't any way for abuse. Check the abuse info in the post.
Haanum (EUW)
: I had the same idea because i am sick of loosing LP in Games of 3v5 or 4v5 just because someone leaves. Here are my thoughts how this would be possible: If a player leaves the game they get a stack for every 12 seconds they are absent. So it is 5 stacks per minute..... 100 stacks per 20 minutes. After the game when the LP loss is calculated, the player has to take 1 percent (rounded) of the LP loss of his teammates for each stack. Example: Player disconnects for 2 minutes = 10 stacks. Top would lose 17LP - 1.7 prevented by stacks - lost 15 Mid would lose 14 - 1.4 prevented - lost 13 ADC would lose 20LP - 2.0 prevented - lost 18 Supp would lose 18 - 1.8 prevented - lost 16 Jungler left and would lose 16 - he has to take 1.7 + 1.4 + 2.0 + 1.8 = 6.9 - lost 23 If the leaver disconnects for a longer peroid of time more LP loss is covered and if you manage to go on 20 minutes in a 4v5 you are good enough (relatively to your oponents) that you should not lose any LP at all. This even works if there is more than one player how left. The percentage of LP loss coverage is calculated as stacks of players / max(100, stacks of all players) Example: one player has 50 stacks one has 70, that equals 10 min afk and 14 min afk 50 / 120 = 0.416 -> player has to cover 41.6% of the LP loss 70 / 120 = 0.583 -> player has to cover 58.3% of the LP loss **Regaring some commenters concernes about abuse:** With the stack system you can not just DC if you lost the last big teamfight and know there is no stopping the enemy any more. You would maybe get like 10 stacks for the 2 min it takes them to finish and your duo buddy still would lose a relatively normal amount of LP - you would lose more of corse - see my example. **Regarding legit DC:** Lets see what possibly could happen... Game crash / PC crash, not your teammates fault, not your fault - Riot is to blame and there is a way to detect if the game was closed normally or crashed. Trust me I am a programmer. Riot can prevent your increased LP loss but your team should still not lose that much they are not to blame. power blackout, not your teammates fault, not your fault - still the program was not closed normally - can be detected as well connectivity issues with your internet, not your teammates fault, not your fault. BUT if you know you have a lousy connection have a backup plan. I use Wifi Hotspot on my mobile if it happens to me - so somewhat preventable you should end up with 10 stacks maximum, no big deal. your mum bullies you out of the room because it is dinner time, not your teammates fault - YOUR FAULT if you know dinner will be ready in the next 30-45 minutes just dont start a game man! You deserve increased LP loss if you have to leave because of that. your house is on fire, let's be honest very unlikely to be an issue with most players, IF it happens to you I am sorry, but you got bigger concernes than increased LP loss - but still NOT YOUR TEAMMATS FAULT. I am open for discussions on my idea and hope some Riot members will also respond!
Nice Idea! I** like it** and I think it could work. Great job! {{item:2054}}
Medoboss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tolumbas,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=hFhi49ff,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-02-09T12:36:25.353+0000) > > It is true that I will win the LP back. It is also true that there will be easy wins with AFK in the enemy team. Overall everything is fine, but I think Riot aims and deserves much more. > > After **every ** League game, **all ** of the players should feel like saying "**gg**" in the post-game screen. Nobody likes to have an AFK, ruining his game. > > It is not that hard to treat a ranked game as a normal. Why would you change MMR/LP, when the game's end is decided form the beginning even if you try your best? The game is not decided if someone leaves. It is much harder but I have won 4v5 before should I get more LP for that if people will lose less if they lose or /ff? Look I know that you feel upset about a loss, and I dont realy know what you mean about Riot deserveing more. I think you saying gg after a lost game is still posible every time after a game **IF** you yourself felt like you did **your best**.** Never** look on a loss as a **punishment** becouse **it is not**, look at it as a **experience**. **Try** to beat the enemy team 4v5 3v5 it doesn't matter look for gaps in their plan exploit their mistakes** try to outplay** them. They will probably win but you will be **able to say** hey **GG** right? But when **you win 4v5** or eaven 3v5 and you **carry** that shit you will feel** amazing.** Watch this and thank me later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE
I agree that it is fun to win 4v5. Although for me is even more frustruating, when I lose a game because of a leaver and I can't beleve you that, you enjoy loosing because of an afk. This is unfear, unreasonable, time waisting, unsolvable problem. Do you really think LP punishing should be part of that already bad experience?
Medoboss (EUW)
: As people said allready. There is a 50/50 chance there are people in bronze,silver,gold,platinum,diamont,master,challenger and they all must deal with this so its fair. It doesn't seem so but it is. You will climb elo if you are good enought to climb it and will fall if you are not. You wont fall becouse people who are dc{{summoner:3}} {{summoner:3}}
http://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/hFhi49ff-reduced-lp-loss-for-the-teammates-when-a-player-afk?comment=000b0000
JakiStow (EUW)
: You lose games because a player was afk, but you also win games when it happens to the other team. Given the very high number of players in this game, the probability for each scenario is 50/50, so it evens out. Please think a bit and stop whining about this, it doesn't matter at all in your ranking.
http://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/hFhi49ff-reduced-lp-loss-for-the-teammates-when-a-player-afk?comment=000b0000
KFC Wings (EUW)
: Like everybody said there would be abuse. You got as much chance to have an afk on your team as to have them on the enemy team. (we just notice it a lot better when its on our team :/)
If you share with me and the rest, how exacly will you abuse the system, I would be really happy. It will let us to think for a solution.
: Elo/LP loss is not a punishment but a completely normal thing in the ranking system. Just win the next few games and get them back. Punishing players who go afk or troll should be punished of course, but every win or loss must be treated equally for both teams regardless of what happened during the game, the only exception being server issues. Everything else would cause elo/LP inflation.
It is true that I will win the LP back. It is also true that there will be easy wins with AFK in the enemy team. Overall everything is fine, but I think Riot aims and deserves much more. After **every ** League game, **all ** of the players should fell like saying "**gg**" in the post-game screen. Nobody likes to have AFK, ruinning his game. It is not that hard to threat a ranked game as a normal. Why would you change MMR/LP, when the game's end is decided form the beginning even if you try your best?
Frew (EUW)
: It's not you're correct, but you should understand that it DOES matter if the disconnected (technically NOT AFK as he is not away from keyboard, in most scenarios he is most likely trying his hardest to reconnect...) player has lost connection due to the client being unstable. As you said earlier, " I get punished by Riot, because someone chosen by Riot disconnects". Players who lose connection due to a client disconnect or bugsplat are also being punished (unintentionally) by Riot in exactly the same way. It is not their fault, it is Riot's, just like in the scenario you conjured in the original post. The TL:DR of this entire thread is that Riot need to stabilise their client to work on all machines correctly, 100% of the time, and players who leave or AFK **intentionally** should be subject to higher punishment, not decrease punishment for those who are on the team. In this case, you could not AFK to save your duo partner his LP, and you see LESS AKFers in your matches. Part of the problem is the client and its stability, you'd be better set to not forget that.
It is true that leavers happen, some intetional and some not. But what is the difference in game between a random "mid or afk" troll and an innocent SoloQ player with crashed client? **There isn't **- they both sit in their base and loosing the game for their team. That is why i said that the reasons don't matter. They don't matter to his team. And yet, **ofcource they do matter** - Riot punishes with bans innocent AFK players. But as I said above, I am fighting not for the innocent AFK player, but for his innocent teammates.
z554 (EUNE)
: In many of my games there is always some troller , unskilled , afk . Why should i lose x LP just because he wanted to feed/lose/quit? Assuming that the player who feed/quit/etc have 2 accounts, one silver , one diamond , he intentionally feed/quit with the silver one to f**k us, and he gets punished (maybe ban) . After the ban expires he does it again. The LP should be based on how you play , mmr , afk time , score , etc (just like mmr) .I am not saying that if i play really good i should get LP even if i lose , i am saying it should be divided. If you lose.. you lose some LP based on your league-division , but the rest on how you play, etc. Then people that play and lose will still lose some league points but not as the feeders or trollers. That i way in my opinion players will get to their real rank 70-80% based on what they play and 20-30% on how his team play.
The LP system is done to hide the MMR, behind a mask. Noone else than Riot knows the algorithum behind the MMR calulation. But i think 98% chance of losing when you are 4v5 shouldn't change your skill level (MMR) as it does now. That is one of the reasons I made this discusion.
Psychö (EUNE)
: There are alot of players who know how the new system works and don't actually go full afk but just run around in fountin until the game is over how is riot gona count that as afk ? on the topic it self It is sad to see ur self losing 25 lp casue u had someone afk from mn 1 or someone who just rage quit casuse the jungler dont gank him ..
It is true that my suggestion won't remove the leavers and trollers and there will always be a doughebag who will pretend that he is in game, but he is actuly trolling and spamming wards at the fountain, but it will **reduce the frustration** of the lost game from the start.
Sightburner (EUNE)
: This would be abused. I know you do not think so, but I think that is wishful thinking. I am 99% sure this will never implemented and that is a good thing.
If you suggest a way how to abuse it, I would be happy to hear it. I really DO hope they hear my voice and do something about this issue. Otherwise there isn't much point to have Boards, when we have Reddit. Also i edited the inital post to be more clear.
: Adding a complex algorithm to the already complex MMR/League system would destroy the client. Factoring in all details of the game then recalculating them in relation to the MMR scores of each player which are used for LP calculation... That would be too laggy to be worth the effort. Also there are a number of factors to why one person may AFK or leave. Currently it's up to the players to deal with those. Whether everyone will be so butthurt that someone had to pick up their fiancee or study for an exam they have forgotten or be cool with it and not give out 9x reports ;) Just my 1/20 dollaz
The algorithum shouldn't be complex that much. MMR shouldn't change when you finish a game with 98% chance of losing. The same algorithum is implemeted in other MOBA games and the players(my friends) say only positive things about it. The change would be only post-game, so it shouldn't cause any lag. It is true that you can't predict the future and I don't blame the Leaver. I am trying to protect his unlucky teammates that they lose hours of progress even if they try their hardest.
: Hi, Tolumbas, I thought about it. Since enabling a system that reduces LP losses when one or more of your teammates are AFK or just disconnect would encourage players to intentionally quit a match in order to lose less LP's, this either could, in case no additional penalties are applied to the AFK/DC player, increase the number of leavers, which would also increase the number of losses (i.e. a game where someone lost hope and just ragequits to have a smaller LP loss, when the game could have been won - sad but happens), or, if the AFK/DC's are heavily punished (i.e. with division drops, multiplied lp loss, or permabans), this would heavily damage players who soffer from occasional disconnects, or have poor internet connection or hardware, rather than the ones who intentionally ragequit. Riot should find something which lies in between negative punishment and positive reinforcement, but I don't know at the moment what that could be. I know they already are experimenting some kinds of new punishments like low priority queues, but the DC problem's a long way from being solved. Not having said much, cheers, The Cenobyte
Hi, The Cenobyte, I think I was misunderstood. **All AFK will be punished fully by the Leaver Buster**. To prevent abuse I suggest this: http://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/hFhi49ff-reduced-lp-loss-for-the-teammates-when-a-player-afk?comment=00020000 Currently if you have AFK in your team, he is punished by somekind of ban, but the rest of his team is punished as well with guarateed loss, guarateed -15LP. Riot is **punishing me** for having** unejoyable** experience.
stres4me (EUNE)
: I think that when a player is more than 5 min akf, it is a total disadvantage to you and your team. I suggest that after you have more than 10 min afk in your team to be able to surrender or just to quit {{summoner:4}} . The player who is afk should support all the LP loss. That includes demotions also. So if you decide to go afk you should think twice because you may drop 1 division.
As I answered to one's post, this in not a discussion for the punishments for the AFKs. It is for the rest of his team. But i think it is too serious for -80LP on lost due to AFK. You can't predict an electricity fail or parent's rage.
SantaHunter (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tolumbas,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=hFhi49ff,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-02-08T16:06:45.481+0000) > > I don't think there will be abuse. In champ select when 2 players say "mid or afk" usually they don't leave, because they hope the other player will leave - fear of the 5min ban. > > Otherwise, Riot can just higher the punishments for AFK-ing or, like I said, 50% - 75% in game AFK, to lead to LP reduction. So if the game survives 20 min. without 5th player it is really hard for the player, who is trying to abuse, to decide if he'll win his team's loss or lose his team's win (*if that makes any sence*). > > There isn't much to calculate for the LP loss. At the end of the game the client checks if there was an AFK in the game and how long they've been afk; it devides it to the game's lenght and checks if it's greater than 50%. > > It will be really sad if Riot doesn't do anything about this issue. It is most definetly a problem and there are very healthy solutions, so please share/upvote this decusion, for Riot to see and hopefully answers and fixes. Yes and before adding this they need to optimize their client. Fix bugs and stop it from crashing. It needs to be extremely stable before punishing someone who went afk because they couldn't optimize their own game. In 99% cases I went afk it was because of the client crashing.
This is not a discussion for the punishments/resons of the AFK player. I am fighting for the rest his team, who is matched with him unwillingly. It desn't matter if the player's client crashed or his internet stopped; he is AFK in game and he is loosing the match for his team. The reasons may be put in another discussion with a sugestion for fixing them.
Lucien37 (EUNE)
: Don't go so black and white. There are multiple reasons, why people can be AFK and a lot of them are 100% acceptable, unpredictable and understandable. But yes, you can still deny it and cry on {{item:3151}} . On the other hand - idea of lower LP loss for teams with AFKs is rather good. Only the package, you deliverd it in, is kinda shitty, so not many people will bother to take you seriously or give this issue a time.
I edited the answer, because i think it was not clear enough. I hope you understand me now.
: Just take in consideration that your team have 4 spots for a afk players, and oposite team have 5 spots, so after a good munber of games u will take advantage from afk because they will apear more in enemy team, so ur not punished by afk's
This is not the point I was trying to make. For me is selfish to say "gg" after a won 5v4 game. I can't imagine a player who likes to have an AFK in his team, even if it's his friend. League of Legends is a game, where everyone should fell like writing "gg" at the post-game lobby.
SantaHunter (EUNE)
: It would be abused. You're losing a game and someone decides to go afk just so you don't lose too much LP. Although I was thinking about this AND there **are ways to make this really work.** You'd need a perfect algorithm! It would calculate the reduction of your LP loss by numerous things (How long was the player afk, what was his score, how did he affect the game, etc.). Also the player who went afk loses x2 LP he would if he didn't go afk. I think this will never be added, but it would be a great think if it ever gets implemented.
**I don't think there will be abuse**. In champ select when 2 players say "mid or afk" usually they don't leave, because they hope the other player will leave - fear of the 5min ban. Otherwise, Riot can just higher the punishments for AFK-ing or, like I said, 50% - 75% in game AFK, to lead to LP reduction. So if the game survives 20 min. without 5th player it is really hard for the player, who is trying to abuse, to decide if he'll win his team's loss or lose his team's win (*if that makes any sence*). There isn't much to calculate for the LP loss. At the end of the game the client checks if there was an AFK in the game and how long they've been afk; it devides it to the game's lenght and checks if it's greater than 50%. It will be really sad if Riot doesn't do anything about this issue. It is most definetly a problem and there are very healthy solutions, so please share/upvote this decusion, for Riot to see and hopefully answers and fixes.
Lucien37 (EUNE)
: Don't go so black and white. There are multiple reasons, why people can be AFK and a lot of them are 100% acceptable, unpredictable and understandable. But yes, you can still deny it and cry on {{item:3151}} . On the other hand - idea of lower LP loss for teams with AFKs is rather good. Only the package, you deliverd it in, is kinda shitty, so not many people will bother to take you seriously or give this issue a time.
I don't blame the people who AFK - it happens. I blame Riot for **punishing me** for having **unejoyable** experience, whitch is really sad {{item:3070}} . In DotA2 if a player leaves for 5 min, you can leave the game without punishments and start another one if you like, and is "Loss prevented". Something similar should be done in Leauge as well.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
They let him play. Maybe the punishments aren't strong enough? But that is not the point i am trying to make. I am not serching the fault. I mean Riot is more responcible for the AFKs, than the non-AFK solo queue player is. It is harder for the whole league comunity to change and stop AFKing, than Riot chaging the LP calculation. This will simply make players more happy and all will enjoy the game more.{{item:2054}}
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