Arnoter (EUW)
: Do you mean a Hypercarry, somebody like Heimer, Yasuo or Swain Bot?
> [{quoted}](name=Arnoter,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Wp2T1xKH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-09T17:11:10.068+0000) > > Do you mean a Hypercarry, somebody like Heimer, Yasuo or Swain Bot? You make me angry. THOSE CHAMPS DON'T BELONG TO THE BOT LANE
Proppa (EUW)
: The trouble with stealth, these champions have insane burst damage. So you literally have no time to react or do anything before you get instantly killed. Being on the receiving end of a Shaco/Evenlyn/Rengar etc, who can just wipe you out instantly isn't fun at all. It's like when you play the slapsies game, the one doing the slapping has a huge reaction advantage as they know exactly when they are going to strike, so the one getting hit is always at a disadvantage. That's the same as invisibility/stealth. I think it's a bad mechanic for the game, atleast when Stealth Wards revealed them they would have to re-think their position etc.
> [{quoted}](name=Proppa,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=v9Bf952Y,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-09T14:38:18.438+0000) > > The trouble with stealth, these champions have insane burst damage. So you literally have no time to react or do anything before you get instantly killed. Being on the receiving end of a Shaco/Evenlyn/Rengar etc, who can just wipe you out instantly isn't fun at all. It's like when you play the slapsies game, the one doing the slapping has a huge reaction advantage as they know exactly when they are going to strike, so the one getting hit is always at a disadvantage. That's the same as invisibility/stealth. I think it's a bad mechanic for the game, atleast when Stealth Wards revealed them they would have to re-think their position etc. I agree. Champions like Kha'zix are way too powerful and there is little to no countering his invisibility. Also revealing only position is not very useful, especially if your team has got only a few skillshots. For example, most ADCs, Master Yi etc. cannot even target invisible champions because they've got no skillshots. Before, we had pink wards which could be placed to fully reveal an invisible champion and we had upgraded red trinket (S4/5) that would grant True Sight to the one who uses it and a pink ward yellow trinket. Back in S5 stealth wasn't a problem. It only became one when they changed trinkets in the patch 5.22. Assassins update didn't help either, it only made things worse and the only rework that wasn't a failure is Talon.
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=unXTxJ1B,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-09-08T17:41:33.306+0000) > > She doesn't surrender her escape if she attacks somebody. When taking the dagger her E cooldown is reduced by 96% at level 16, which in my opinions is too much. New Katarina has also got insane lategame, waveclear and laning phase, unlike the old better one with a bit better late game, but bad early game and waveclear. Her old W dealt little damage and was AOE, but now her dagger has 1.0 AP RATIO. That is too much for an AOE ability. Her old kit was about the combo, but the new one is based around Q passive. That is her entire kit, stepping on daggers. All the power is in one ability and everything else is used to proc it, except the ultimate which is trash compared to her dagger. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You're complaining that the new Katarina is too strong, but also saying the old version was better. Additionally, the old kata required much less thought than she does now. Her old combo was Shunpo onto a target and just unload everything into them. And while she can do that now, the lion's share of her damage is in her daggers, as you've said, but those daggers give a clear area of threat for her opponent to avoid. Personally, I'd prefer to fight a slippery Kata that shows me where she's most powerful, than have old one that literally blinked ontoyou and facerolled the keyboard...
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=unXTxJ1B,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-08T17:52:39.537+0000) > > I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You're complaining that the new Katarina is too strong, but also saying the old version was better. > Additionally, the old kata required much less thought than she does now. Her old combo was Shunpo onto a target and just unload everything into them. And while she can do that now, the lion's share of her damage is in her daggers, as you've said, but those daggers give a clear area of threat for her opponent to avoid. > Personally, I'd prefer to fight a slippery Kata that shows me where she's most powerful, than have old one that literally blinked ontoyou and facerolled the keyboard... Good luck dodging those daggers in a teamfight without flash or Janna/Lulu while 5 people are attacking you and you have to dodge the dagger + probably another 5 skillshots. Dagger 100-0s you. It should have around 40% AP ration maximum for an AOE ability, not 1.0. Also, if you messed up on old Kata you were dead, but the new Kata can E back because of that 96% cooldown reduction. The old one required better decision making and some practice, while on the new one you only need a bit of practice. You probably belong to the group of people who couldn't win a single game against old Katarina because you had no CC on your team. The old one was about the resets, but the new one is E spam while using your other abilities to be able to do more E spam.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=unXTxJ1B,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-07T21:58:32.898+0000) > > Too many dashes. Needs to get reverted. The old one was a lot more balanced Was it? Old Kata's entire game plan was Shunpo onto someone and blow every single cooldown at point blank range. Nowadays, at least from what I've seen when she's not fed, is that she has to surrender her guaranteed means of escape if she wants to do that exact same thing. She also has to give her enemy some warning before she does, in the form of her daggers.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=unXTxJ1B,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-09-07T22:03:11.155+0000) > > Was it? Old Kata's entire game plan was Shunpo onto someone and blow every single cooldown at point blank range. Nowadays, at least from what I've seen when she's not fed, is that she has to surrender her guaranteed means of escape if she wants to do that exact same thing. She also has to give her enemy some warning before she does, in the form of her daggers. She doesn't surrender her escape if she attacks somebody. When taking the dagger her E cooldown is reduced by 96% at level 16, which in my opinions is too much. New Katarina has also got insane lategame, waveclear and laning phase, unlike the old better one with a bit better late game, but bad early game and waveclear. Her old W dealt little damage and was AOE, but now her dagger has 1.0 AP RATIO. That is too much for an AOE ability. Her old kit was about the combo, but the new one is based around Q passive. That is her entire kit, stepping on daggers. All the power is in one ability and everything else is used to proc it, except the ultimate which is trash compared to her dagger.
titorr03 (EUNE)
: rito BUFF KATA pls
#revertkatarina She was a lot more balanced and didn't have 1.0 AP ratio AOE ability. She couldn't dash 235412352431523 times in a 1v1. She had more counterplay and you actually needed a brain to play that champ (because if you made a mistake you would die). The current one only requieres some practice and you can make as many mistakes as you want because you can dash back. Reverting her completely would be the best option for the game balance and would fix her stupidly broken late game and strong early game. Also the old one was a lot easier to counter. The old one used to be high risk high reward. Current Katarina is low risk high reward, due to too many resets on her E.
Aqualyn (EUNE)
: EUW super overrated
There's no difference in server skill level until you get to D2 or D1,maybe even Master, including Korea. The main difference is the number of trolls and toxicity (Korea is #1 everywhere, including this category).
: So, What Is So Bad About Katarina Right Now?
Too many dashes. Too high damage (1.0 AP ratio) on her AOE dagger which makes her broken late game. Needs to get reverted. The old one was a lot more balanced and was so much easier to counter.
Rioter Comments
: Bring back Dominion
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=qOHya0FJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-13T21:49:52.307+0000) > > I personally find Season 5 the best and the most balanced season. Everything was viable, there weren't so many overpowered picks Are we talking about the same game? Season 5, the most balanced season? Everything was viable? Oh boy. You didn't play during Season 5, did you? One word: Juggernaut.
> [{quoted}](name=Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=qOHya0FJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-13T22:13:46.644+0000) > > Are we talking about the same game? Season 5, the most balanced season? Everything was viable? > Oh boy. You didn't play during Season 5, did you? > > One word: Juggernaut. Basically the end of that season. Before that it was a lot more fun though.
Lynxmetal (EUW)
: When did gold get so horrendously bad?
You share my pain These are the reasons I've play mainly Flex with 4 friends for the last couple of weeks
Rioter Comments
: Can we have katarina reverted pls riot
Actually I would just remove the E reset when she steps on a dagger and make dagger AP ratio 0.3 or 0.4, maybe buff Q. Dashing 10^9999999 times in a 1v1 is not okay and certainly not balanced. I mean I would just revert that champ (and the whole assassins update except Talon), but I know Riot won't ever admit that their rework was a failure.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-22T20:17:26.839+0000) > > First of all, 20 kills/assist is not a small number. In theory, you could camp one person 24/7 and it would work, but in practice the only way to actually do that would be a) get mega fed & 1v5 (smurfing) or b) play against stupid enemies who don't know what to do (and whine how Rengar is 'op', even though they don't want to know how to counter him or place wards). This passive only adds him more damage (and is a lot easier to stack), which leads to more snowballing which leads to even more snowballing. > > Secondly, his Ferocity. Have you heard of combos? Tell me how I can triple Q or even engage if tanks are protecting their squishies constantly, if I can't get to the squishies. That's what assassins are very good at, punishing mistakes. If you overextent or if you're not with your team, why shouldn't an assassin exploit that. You would die anyway if an assassin showed up. Also, what is the problem with a very oppressive laning phase. The same happens with Pantheon : you either don't farm or you're dead. By that logic, why can Pantheon do that? > > About W. I think you don't understand. FREE QSS SHOULD NOT BE A THING ON ASSASSINS. It should not be a thing. It gave armor and MR before (and HP at 4 Ferocity). Right now he has grey HP (something that tanks and bruisers have), which is something assassins completely don't need because they want to one-shot their target and get out. On top of that, if Rengar messes up he's got free QSS. Assassins ARE NOT SUPPOSTED TO HAVE A FREE GETAWAY TICKET. If they make a fatal mistake, they should be dead. That's why they are high risk-high rewards. Rengar's W right completely contradicts his assassin theme and purpose. They both lead to snowballing, but the new one is gated by the fact he has to kill everyone once and the bonus it gives is not insurmountably high. Rengar's old passive if he got going made fighting him frustrating as he just got faster roams, longer leaps and made keeping track of him while he was in ult really bloody hard. Conversely, if he didn't get any stacks then he just feel behind and that was that. He was out of the game. His old Ferocity made him a really feast or famine champion. OK, there's punishing mistakes, but the player also needs the ability to be able to try to react to the assassin. His Triple Q didn't allow for that. He just popped out of nowhere and exploded a target before anyone could react. Now, that was back when he didn't have an ult indicator and he was stealthed rather than camouflaged, however the enhanced damage on the marked target would make reintroducing the old passive a gamble without rebalancing him for the umpteenth time. I'll take your point about the QSS and raise you this; defensive steroids should not be a thing on assassins. If Rengar wants to assassinate a target, why does he need that survivability? Also, the heal he had on his old W, in most cases, was much stronger than his current grey health, as it was based on total missing hp, not the half of the damage he'd taken in the last 1.5 seconds. Additionally, on the QSS front, a lot assassins have some way back on of the fight. Zed can pop back to his ult shadow, Ekko can ult to safety, Leblance can Distort right back to her starting position, Eve ults, etc. Yes, a lot of these abilities require the use of an ult, but the advantage they have is that they can be used instantly if things turn south. Rengar has either have ulted in or have leapt from a bush with no ferocity, meaning he has to wait to be able to use that cleanse, and if it's in a team fight or he picks a wrong fight and overcommits, that delay can easily see him get killed.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T21:42:16.046+0000) > > They both lead to snowballing, but the new one is gated by the fact he has to kill everyone once and the bonus it gives is not insurmountably high. Rengar's old passive if he got going made fighting him frustrating as he just got faster roams, longer leaps and made keeping track of him while he was in ult really bloody hard. Conversely, if he didn't get any stacks then he just feel behind and that was that. He was out of the game. > His old Ferocity made him a really feast or famine champion. > > OK, there's punishing mistakes, but the player also needs the ability to be able to try to react to the assassin. His Triple Q didn't allow for that. He just popped out of nowhere and exploded a target before anyone could react. > Now, that was back when he didn't have an ult indicator and he was stealthed rather than camouflaged, however the enhanced damage on the marked target would make reintroducing the old passive a gamble without rebalancing him for the umpteenth time. > > I'll take your point about the QSS and raise you this; defensive steroids should not be a thing on assassins. If Rengar wants to assassinate a target, why does he need that survivability? Also, the heal he had on his old W, in most cases, was much stronger than his current grey health, as it was based on total missing hp, not the half of the damage he'd taken in the last 1.5 seconds. > Additionally, on the QSS front, a lot assassins have some way back on of the fight. Zed can pop back to his ult shadow, Ekko can ult to safety, Leblance can Distort right back to her starting position, Eve ults, etc. Yes, a lot of these abilities require the use of an ult, but the advantage they have is that they can be used instantly if things turn south. Rengar has either have ulted in or have leapt from a bush with no ferocity, meaning he has to wait to be able to use that cleanse, and if it's in a team fight or he picks a wrong fight and overcommits, that delay can easily see him get killed. I agree with you, you made some good points and I have some solutions. In my opinion, anyone that is S2+ (or has ever been) should know what to do when a champion in camouflage shows up near them, so that's done. However, you talked about overkilling the marked target. My solution to this is the removal of bonus damage. I agree, it is unhealthy and it should be removed if the old Ferocity comes back. Combined with the current Q, it deals more damage than the Empowered one + because of 1 stack from leap + 3 from abilites you can get Q Empowered Q Q combo with the similar damage output than before. The main difference is that you don't have to hit E or W (if the old Ferocity came back I would make it so it does not give you Ferocity if you miss). Bonus damage on the ultimate is just the compensation for the loss of Ferocity and should be removed if the old Ferocity ever got added. About the QSS I agree, although the old W was a lot more useful and rewarding if you played well, AP Rengar xDDDD
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T13:08:30.787+0000) > > I know why, because kids in bronze and silver didn't know what to do against any assassin & they used to spam 'assassins are broken, they are unbalanced, nerf them', even though they didn't even want to look up how to counter them. Incorrect! Let's first explain the passive. The reason why it was changed is because, while a snowball-y, 'win more' mechanic like the current version is, it could be stacked by killing one guy over and over. Add to this the fact that the bonuses it offered gave less and less room to react to him, he could snowball out of control by just taking out the weakest target ad infinitum. Second, his Ferocity. Now, we're all aquainted with his Triple Q, right? That is an immense amount of burst that he could just sit on, making moving out to farm in lane against him suicidal, and meant his ult assassinations have too short a TTK and too little of a window to react. Add his old passive in and your dead whenever he decides to go on you. And finally, his W. Assassin with tank stats. Assassins are supposed to be this high risk, high reward class. Giving him the ability to become really tanky while still pumping out assassin damage is a balancing nightmare. The change, while not 1:1, gave Rengar the ability to stay in a fight for longer if needed, or get out of Dodge, without making longer fights against him, where he should be at a disadvantage, frustrating.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-06-22T17:12:24.333+0000) > > Incorrect! > Let's first explain the passive. The reason why it was changed is because, while a snowball-y, 'win more' mechanic like the current version is, it could be stacked by killing one guy over and over. Add to this the fact that the bonuses it offered gave less and less room to react to him, he could snowball out of control by just taking out the weakest target ad infinitum. > Second, his Ferocity. Now, we're all aquainted with his Triple Q, right? That is an immense amount of burst that he could just sit on, making moving out to farm in lane against him suicidal, and meant his ult assassinations have too short a TTK and too little of a window to react. Add his old passive in and your dead whenever he decides to go on you. > And finally, his W. Assassin with tank stats. Assassins are supposed to be this high risk, high reward class. Giving him the ability to become really tanky while still pumping out assassin damage is a balancing nightmare. The change, while not 1:1, gave Rengar the ability to stay in a fight for longer if needed, or get out of Dodge, without making longer fights against him, where he should be at a disadvantage, frustrating. First of all, 20 kills/assist is not a small number. In theory, you could camp one person 24/7 and it would work, but in practice the only way to actually do that would be a) get mega fed & 1v5 (smurfing) or b) play against stupid enemies who don't know what to do (and whine how Rengar is 'op', even though they don't want to know how to counter him or place wards). This passive only adds him more damage (and is a lot easier to stack), which leads to more snowballing which leads to even more snowballing. Secondly, his Ferocity. Have you heard of combos? Tell me how I can triple Q or even engage if tanks are protecting their squishies constantly, if I can't get to the squishies. That's what assassins are very good at, punishing mistakes. If you overextent or if you're not with your team, why shouldn't an assassin exploit that. You would die anyway if an assassin showed up. Also, what is the problem with a very oppressive laning phase. The same happens with Pantheon : you either don't farm or you're dead. By that logic, why can Pantheon do that? About W. I think you don't understand. FREE QSS SHOULD NOT BE A THING ON ASSASSINS. It should not be a thing. It gave armor and MR before (and HP at 4 Ferocity). Right now he has grey HP (something that tanks and bruisers have), which is something assassins completely don't need because they want to one-shot their target and get out. On top of that, if Rengar messes up he's got free QSS. Assassins ARE NOT SUPPOSTED TO HAVE A FREE GETAWAY TICKET. If they make a fatal mistake, they should be dead. That's why they are high risk-high rewards. Rengar's W right completely contradicts his assassin theme and purpose.
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T13:08:30.787+0000) > > I know why, because kids in bronze and silver didn't know what to do against any assassin & they used to spam 'assassins are broken, they are unbalanced, nerf them', even though they didn't even want to look up how to counter them. They don't rework champions because people don't want to counterplay against them. Yasuo is one the most complained about champions in lower elo and he didn't receive any change. Because the balance team knows a lot better than low elo players and doesn't rework when something has already obvious counterplay. So no, that's not the reason why they reworked him, try giving an actual response instead of a wrong idea you had.
> [{quoted}](name=NU Male official,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T13:22:35.491+0000) > > They don't rework champions because people don't want to counterplay against them. Yasuo is one the most complained about champions in lower elo and he didn't receive any change. Because the balance team knows a lot better than low elo players and doesn't rework when something has already obvious counterplay. So no, that's not the reason why they reworked him, try giving an actual response instead of a wrong idea you had. But the truth is that Rengar was never intended for the full rework, it was forced.
: I feel like you don't realise why these changes were implemented in the first place...
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-22T07:30:12.026+0000) > > I feel like you don't realise why these changes were implemented in the first place... I know why, because kids in bronze and silver didn't know what to do against any assassin & they used to spam 'assassins are broken, they are unbalanced, nerf them', even though they didn't even want to look up how to counter them.
Holokom (EUW)
: I think you dont get what the assasin Theme means. It is not the goal of killing sb in less than 1 second. A tank might not care but what about adcs ? Play 100 games of adc and you will realize why your idea is so bad.
> [{quoted}](name=Holokom,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OYQg0Z53,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-22T09:04:21.198+0000) > > I think you dont get what the assasin Theme means. It is not the goal of killing sb in less than 1 second. A tank might not care but what about adcs ? Play 100 games of adc and you will realize why your idea is so bad. I main ADC. It is not bad unless your teammates are inting (& never listening to any advice). I never said 'give him invisibility'. With camouflage you can know where Rengar is and reposition. About lane, just don't be under enemy tower if you don't know where Rengar is.
Rioter Comments
: Patch 8.11. How the adc role began to change.
#revert{{item:3031}} keep the cost, return old build path and cloak of agility Totally agree with this post. It is no lt ADCs, it is supports making ADCs look unbroken and balanced when in reality they havr tools to transform them into mega tank assassins.
: Patch 8.11. How the adc role began to change.
Now we can only wait for support mains to come her and whine : '700 DMG shield that gives 50+ad and damage on hit is not op becausr i cant 1v5'
meco78 (EUW)
: HAHA good joke . Nerf the supports ? redempetion and ardent ? then u will have perma full AP{{champion:99}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:142}} botlane . Then u will cry support are taking my kills and my cs .TBH supports are already nerfed with the changes of supp items (relic shield-assencion-..)and we have to babysit adc like you who think that the game is made for him to carry alone while u cant even stand 1min with out ur support in lane . IF u think support is useless go try to play solo lane adc and u will end up desinstalling the game after 10 games beig raped by ennemie jgl/mid romaing assasin every seconds :)
> [{quoted}](name=meco78,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-06-05T11:35:13.829+0000) > > HAHA good joke . Nerf the supports ? redempetion and ardent ? then u will have perma full AP{{champion:99}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:142}} botlane . Then u will cry support are taking my kills and my cs .TBH supports are already nerfed with the changes of supp items (relic shield-assencion-..)and we have to babysit adc like you who think that the game is made for him to carry alone while u cant even stand 1min with out ur support in lane . > IF u think support is useless go try to play solo lane adc and u will end up desinstalling the game after 10 games beig raped by ennemie jgl/mid romaing assasin every seconds :) Better that than janna (to play against)
Naranjo1 (EUNE)
: Riot, thank you for killing most of the ADCs
I like how every support main thinks that 700 DMG shield with bonus on hit damage that gives 50+ AD on 6 s cooldown (Janna e + ardent cancer) and 500+ heal for your team that you can use while dead (redmeption) is balanced and that supports are trash because they cant 1v5.
Sarokh (EUNE)
: Agreed. Juggernauts destroyed this game All the functions that the old client had were the best <3
> [{quoted}](name=Sarokh,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2018-06-04T17:52:46.682+0000) > > Agreed. Juggernauts destroyed this game > All the functions that the old client had were the best &lt;3 See more stats still missing...
50m3 6uy (EUW)
: adc's are viable and strong. late game they f you up. they buff sups because no one plays them, understandable. problem with adc's is...you struggle to have fun, because you usually need to be pretty good to play them. most champs have a dash/sprint to use, then they go on you and just press all their buttons. if you want to survive, you have to be a dodge master. a midlaner has the opportunity to hit back. an adc doesnt...until he is lvl 16 and 3 items strong, or if he is ezreal. and thats what makes the difference. laning phase is really about hoping your sup isnt autofilled and the enemy jungler doesnt gank.
> [{quoted}](name=50m3 6uy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-06-04T00:36:50.042+0000) > > adc&#x27;s are viable and strong. late game they f you up. > > they buff sups because no one plays them, understandable. > problem with adc&#x27;s is...you struggle to have fun, because you usually need to be pretty good to play them. most champs have a dash/sprint to use, then they go on you and just press all their buttons. if you want to survive, you have to be a dodge master. > a midlaner has the opportunity to hit back. an adc doesnt...until he is lvl 16 and 3 items strong, or if he is ezreal. and thats what makes the difference. > laning phase is really about hoping your sup isnt autofilled and the enemy jungler doesnt gank. True, everything you said is true. The problem is that every ADC that doesn't scale well with stormrazor (Jhin, Draven), doesn't care about crit (Ezreal, Lucian, MF) or is simply OP (Kai'sa) sucks and cannot win early game against any of these champs, which basicly, in the current meta, means the game. It is so insanely hard to even win mid game without 50% bonus crit dmg. RIOT REVERT INFINITY EDGE !!!, bring back cloak of agility and maybe revert ER. Item costs can stay as they are now. Undo Zeal nerfs.
Sarokh (EUNE)
: You are correct ;( I haven't played a single game since I played some adc games after the new adc items... My jinx is even more useless now. Can't even be assed to even play league anymore, I wish riot could get rid of silvers and gold players in their balancing team and revert LoL back to how it was season 4... I mean im d4 and even I am not good enough to be in the team (if we speak truthfully) 2014 was the best year
> [{quoted}](name=Sarokh,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-06-04T00:40:35.132+0000) > > You are correct ;( > I haven&#x27;t played a single game since I played some adc games after the new adc items... My jinx is even more useless now. Can&#x27;t even be assed to even play league anymore, I wish riot could get rid of silvers and gold players in their balancing team and revert LoL back to how it was season 4... I mean im d4 and even I am not good enough to be in the team (if we speak truthfully) > 2014 was the best year Though I haven't played back then, from videos I saw on YT it looke a lot more fun than this BS meta. In my opinion the game should be reverted to anywhere between S3 and Juggernaut update, with the exception of keeping the champions and cosmetics (including hextech and stuff) and making all runes and pages free.
Mulderino (EUNE)
: Amen, on hit adcs were ALREADY top tier while crit ones weren't nearly as popular, now its even more so, great move for champ diversity riot eh? Tristana is at 45% winrate right now with no direct nerfs, only that should tell you somethings wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Mulderino,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-06-03T22:32:13.710+0000) > > Amen, on hit adcs were ALREADY top tier while crit ones weren&#x27;t nearly as popular, now its even more so, great move for champ diversity riot eh? Tristana is at 45% winrate right now with no direct nerfs, only that should tell you somethings wrong. Ezreal is 50% pick rate and the 2nd biggest win rate after Kai'sa and they nerf {{champion:67}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:222}} etc. They basically took 20% of their damage (on crits) while buffing supports again (ultra-buffing supports since Preseason 7). Highest pick / win rate champs weren't even hurt a bit by this patch while everyone below them did. It is unfair and bad. They should have just raised the item costs and changed last whisper to what it is now, that's all.
: > [{quoted}](name=Naranjo1,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LR0ERNYL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T18:14:23.724+0000) > > Yes why not? At least EVERY JANNA WOULD MAKE AN ADC A TANK !!! Why not? WHY NOT?! Do you know what it's like to have no money for items? Do you know what's it's like to have abuse hurled at you because the map isn't lit up like a damned Christmas tree? Do you? Also, healing is getting nerfed next patch, so enjoy that.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LR0ERNYL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T18:48:26.916+0000) > > Why not? WHY NOT?! Do you know what it&#x27;s like to have no money for items? Do you know what&#x27;s it&#x27;s like to have abuse hurled at you because the map isn&#x27;t lit up like a damned Christmas tree? Do you? > Also, healing is getting nerfed next patch, so enjoy that. Maybe I went too far, but at least revert Ardent Cancer to what it used to be because right now it gives too much at such a low cost and nerf Redemption hard.
Alchemiczka (EUNE)
: I feel so much toxicness in your replies and you also didn't read my reply obviously. So, again, no they are not OP, Janna was a little OP in s6 but she was nerfed. That's all. Everything else is just ability to play and use items right.Any champ can be "OP" if you're good.
> [{quoted}](name=WhatSupp Babe,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T19:40:25.642+0000) > > I feel so much toxicness in your replies and you also didn&#x27;t read my reply obviously. > So, again, no they are not OP, Janna was a little OP in s6 but she was nerfed. That&#x27;s all. Everything else is just ability to play and use items right.Any champ can be &quot;OP&quot; if you&#x27;re good. Maybe not nerf Janna, but at least nerf Ardent Cancer and Redemption hard. Ardent gives too much and at this cost, should be put back to what it used to be before the rework. Redemption needs hard nerfs because 500 HP shield for the whole team can't come at that low cost.
Alchemiczka (EUNE)
: The problem with supports, like I said, is that they are strongly dependent. Without good adc we can just lay under the tower whole early and try to survive till teamfights or risk roaming and feeding enemy bot by noob adc. It is the most ungrateful role in the league and you can't just go and carry this shut. When someone will atack you as a Janna you can try to run but you can't 1:1 with enemy when your KDA are similar because you have no power to beat him. If our shields and heals would be worse we wouldn't have a chance to survive even 5 seconds alone. Also, I totally dissagree that it's adc meta. I'd say that for now botlane is the hardest lane to carry the game. You need one tanky guy with stacked armor and CC to jump on adc and crush him even if his support is helping. I know, I have beed there done that... I don't see much difference between last season and now. You can cry that supports are OP but the truth is - every champion looks OP if someone know how to play him and use items well. I saw Poppy that solo'ed 3 fed champions and after triple she had still full HP, I'd say "come on it's too OP NERF IT!" but dude was just great. And people playing supports are also great sometimes. If you main champs like Janna it's good to see tilted people who can't kill you adc thanks to your help. Man, that's our job. If you can't trick the system (kill Janna first, silence her, use ignite) then don't ask people for nerfs, just try harder...
> [{quoted}](name=WhatSupp Babe,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T19:19:59.631+0000) > > The problem with supports, like I said, is that they are strongly dependent. Without good adc we can just lay under the tower whole early and try to survive till teamfights or risk roaming and feeding enemy bot by noob adc. It is the most ungrateful role in the league and you can&#x27;t just go and carry this shut. When someone will atack you as a Janna you can try to run but you can&#x27;t 1:1 with enemy when your KDA are similar because you have no power to beat him. If our shields and heals would be worse we wouldn&#x27;t have a chance to survive even 5 seconds alone. > > Also, I totally dissagree that it&#x27;s adc meta. I&#x27;d say that for now botlane is the hardest lane to carry the game. You need one tanky guy with stacked armor and CC to jump on adc and crush him even if his support is helping. I know, I have beed there done that... I don&#x27;t see much difference between last season and now. > > You can cry that supports are OP but the truth is - every champion looks OP if someone know how to play him and use items well. I saw Poppy that solo&#x27;ed 3 fed champions and after triple she had still full HP, I&#x27;d say &quot;come on it&#x27;s too OP NERF IT!&quot; but dude was just great. > And people playing supports are also great sometimes. If you main champs like Janna it&#x27;s good to see tilted people who can&#x27;t kill you adc thanks to your help. Man, that&#x27;s our job. If you can&#x27;t trick the system (kill Janna first, silence her, use ignite) then don&#x27;t ask people for nerfs, just try harder... Again, look at my last sentence. I repeat : 'Damage isn't the only indicator that a champion is overpowered. Maybe look at their OVERutility!'
: Sure. Blame supports for the huge early spike ADCs enjoyed from items. Blame supports for almost burst levels of damage ADCs enjoyed from the old crit items. Why don't we just go back to the "good old days" where supports were just sodding ward bots?
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=LR0ERNYL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-03T18:11:19.945+0000) > > Sure. Blame supports for the huge early spike ADCs enjoyed from items. Blame supports for almost burst levels of damage ADCs enjoyed from the old crit items. > Why don&#x27;t we just go back to the &quot;good old days&quot; where supports were just sodding ward bots? Yes why not? At least EVERY JANNA WOULD MAKE AN ADC A TANK !!!
Alchemiczka (EUNE)
: Nerf supports? If they nerf us even more, you will wait for game 2 hours because no one would want to play on this role, believe me. Supports aren't broken. ADC alone is very easy to kill that's why good support use his abilities to protect him from assasins who can kill you in 1 second. If supports will be even worse then soon you will cry that ADC are totally useless. Another thing - supports like Janna or Nami don't have much damage. They aren't independent, sadly. ADC have huge damage and support have huge shields and heals. This is called balance. I know you all would like to have a chance to kill everyone on 1 hit but imagine that it's you who can be shot. So please, leave supports alone. We already are f**ked because of the new sighstone aka support shitem (which personally I REALLY HATE) and OP assasins who now are even called supports (Pyke).
> [{quoted}](name=WhatSupp Babe,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-03T17:31:28.650+0000) > > Nerf supports? If they nerf us even more, you will wait for game 2 hours because no one would want to play on this role, believe me. > Supports aren&#x27;t broken. ADC alone is very easy to kill that&#x27;s why good support use his abilities to protect him from assasins who can kill you in 1 second. If supports will be even worse then soon you will cry that ADC are totally useless. > > Another thing - supports like Janna or Nami don&#x27;t have much damage. They aren&#x27;t independent, sadly. ADC have huge damage and support have huge shields and heals. This is called balance. I know you all would like to have a chance to kill everyone on 1 hit but imagine that it&#x27;s you who can be shot. > > So please, leave supports alone. We already are f**ked because of the new sighstone aka support shitem (which personally I REALLY HATE) and OP assasins who now are even called supports (Pyke). So like 700 DMG Shield that gives 50 AD + ardent cancer isn't broken. Seriously??? It was fine in S5/6 and before, but then Riot sais : Wouldnt it be a great idea to make ardent cancer broken and make a cheap item that gives 500 HP heal to the whole team and you can use it while you are dead ??? So Riot adds that. And then ADCs are broken. I think supports should be completely returned to the state they used to be in S5/6 and this patch reverted. It would end ADC meta, becasue supports are the ones who created it. And yes, I would rather wait 15 min in queue that play like this. + STOP saying that damage it the only thing that matteres and tho only thing that defines what's OP
Rioter Comments
Mreeshai (EUW)
: I tested with Varus and Tristana what currently works as DPS build, you could go for {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3124}} as your core build (IE before rageblade) then pick the fifth item based on your preferences. For DPS, third most effective DPS item was {{item:3095}}, but you could go for things like {{item:3072}} for life leech sustain or {{item:3508}} for mana management and not lose a huge amount of DPS because of it. So, your fifth item could be either of these, or something else like {{item:3026}} for survival. I also find that it is not a huge deal DPS-wise what two zeal items do you pick among {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3046}} . Read their passive descriptions and choose based on those. Runaan's and Phantom Dancer will also give you movement speed, while Shiv and Firecannon give you better poke. For wave clear, going for {{item:3087}} {{item:3085}} might be your best bet. I did the DPS testing against dummies in practice room. I found that Varus did about 1000 DPS against a practice dummy, building {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3095}} {{item:1001}} . Dropping Rageblade from the build was a bigger deal for Varus than it was for Tristana.
> [{quoted}](name=Mreeshai,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-03T14:55:53.894+0000) > > I tested with Varus and Tristana what currently works as DPS build, you could go for {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3124}} as your core build (IE before rageblade) then pick the fifth item based on your preferences. For DPS, third most effective DPS item was {{item:3095}}, but you could go for things like {{item:3072}} for life leech sustain or {{item:3508}} for mana management and not lose a huge amount of DPS because of it. So, your fifth item could be either of these, or something else like {{item:3026}} for survival. I also find that it is not a huge deal DPS-wise what two zeal items do you pick among {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3046}} . Read their passive descriptions and choose based on those. Runaan&#x27;s and Phantom Dancer will also give you movement speed, while Shiv and Firecannon give you better poke. For wave clear, going for {{item:3087}} {{item:3085}} might be your best bet. > > I did the DPS testing against dummies in practice room. I found that Varus did about 1000 DPS against a practice dummy, building {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3095}} {{item:1001}} . Dropping Rageblade from the build was a bigger deal for Varus than it was for Tristana. Yea, but {{item:3095}} or is the best on champions that can delay their auto attack and still do more damage (Draven, Jhin) due to their passives or abilities. It i very bad on someone like Tristana or Varius because they are based on constantly auto attacking. That's why stormrazor isn't the most optimal on those champions. But what hurt those champs the most is the removal of bonus crit damage, which means that those champs lost 20% (on crit) of their damage. The main problem is that due to {{item:3095}} , those champs are bad against Draven, MF and champions that benefit from delaying or don't build crit. On Draven you actually benefit from waiting for stormrazor passive to come up because it is a guaranteed crit with axe, while someone like Tristana, Vayne, Jinx, Varus etc. don't due to their AS based kits. The main problem is that early game champions benefit too much from one item, while others don't have items to counter it.
HitYourHead (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=HitYourHead,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-03T14:02:41.702+0000) > > So you got used with a squishy cheap like Vayne to bully enemy at level 1-2, when the role of Vayne is to struggle early then be strong late. Now when you need to work to get farmed and feed it&#x27;s not ok anymore ? > > Alos Vayne&#x27;s true damage every 3rd atak, why need also big critic chances ? > Vayne should do attack speed top proc very fast true damage, Kalista should do attack speed to put many spears in enemy and then explode him, Tristana should do attack speed to proc fast the bomb in enemy head. Corky ? hmm it&#x27;s years since he was bot as adc, he was many years some sort of hybrid mid lane, more ap oriented, trinity force etc,since when he need crits as main damage? > > From what I see in your list only Ashe and Cait should be the real crit adcs since they are imobile and they just stay and auto attack and their only power is the critic they have no other source of real damage. > > Every other role is overpower why supports should not be ?, and you were so successful with vayne just because supports were so strong or you were dead so fast. > It&#x27;s a struggle to keep Vayne players alive, they are cocky they don&#x27;t care for own safe, they always go in front solo, place bad in teamfight with their short range, and on lane they are a pain since they take in face all enemy pokes. As the supports you listed we go through such pain to keep vaynes alive, use so many shields on them since they have 0 self preservations. If they will nerf those supports and redemption items and other items like Locket you would call them useless when you will die so fast. > > Already vayne players flame supports the most from all others adc players because after so many shields and heals on you, and your refusal to retreat from a fight, doge pokes or just not fight in some situations, refusal to wait for support to come from base, or not use your speed buff to go in front of everyone in the team 1v5 like a brave vayne, and then say, &quot;omg, team 0 peel, 0 help, support its useless, 0 shields&quot;, after everyone used everything to keep you alive. I played my lane passively and took every opportunity to punish my enemies (poke). The problem is that even if I win my lane, my items are trash. Before (and I before I mean since S5 when I started playing) I could get some good items and easily win the mid game, but in this patch every Draven or Jhin with {{item:3095}} just beats me with ease because of his Q that gives him double damage or bonus AD / Lethality and I don't have that 50% bonus crit damage to fight them back. True damage doesn't help against squeshyes with no armor and W is most effective against tanks. Vayne got hit very hard with this patch, along with the most AS / Crit users.
: A honest (subjective) Feedback: Well, I usually dont contribute to toxic-like posts, but I have to say since I started playing in late season 2 early season 3, it is the first time that I truly get full of rage while playing this game - to play solo or duo simply isnt fun anymore. The meta has shifted in a direction where everything has the potential to nearly one shot you (especially as an adc) and champs like Master Yi are just too strong for soloq games (sorry but not everyone has time to grind him/herself upwards) at lower leagues. It is fine if you can play as a coordinated team of 5, then it becomes even great, everything else simply sucks. There is a paradox that Riot doesnt seem to realize; the changes that were made have added strategic depth to the game, BUT ONLY FOR COORDINATED TEAMS of 5, every other game has become simpler than ever with no strategic depth to it whatsoever. There are certain types of champs that are good against badly coordinated teams and these champs punish unrealistically hard that it is ridiculous. League of Legends has, in my opinion, become weirdly unbalanced as it was never before. The quintessence for me is to stop playing. I will probably play from time to time, but in the last few weeks/months, I am unable to recall a single game that I enjoyed other than when I play with friends as a 5 team premade.
> [{quoted}](name=OmnibusVeritas,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-03T13:26:36.063+0000) > > A honest (subjective) Feedback: > > Well, I usually dont contribute to toxic-like posts, but I have to say since I started playing in late season 2 early season 3, it is the first time that I truly get full of rage while playing this game - to play solo or duo simply isnt fun anymore. The meta has shifted in a direction where everything has the potential to nearly one shot you (especially as an adc) and champs like Master Yi are just too strong for soloq games (sorry but not everyone has time to grind him/herself upwards) at lower leagues. It is fine if you can play as a coordinated team of 5, then it becomes even great, everything else simply sucks. There is a paradox that Riot doesnt seem to realize; the changes that were made have added strategic depth to the game, BUT ONLY FOR COORDINATED TEAMS of 5, every other game has become simpler than ever with no strategic depth to it whatsoever. There are certain types of champs that are good against badly coordinated teams and these champs punish unrealistically hard that it is ridiculous. League of Legends has, in my opinion, become weirdly unbalanced as it was never before. The quintessence for me is to stop playing. I will probably play from time to time, but in the last few weeks/months, I am unable to recall a single game that I enjoyed other than when I play with friends as a 5 team premade. Agree with everything here. Now a single poke champ is the same as poke comp. There is no more strategy in this game, it is pure tactics. Before S6 or Juggernaut update the game didn't use to be like this. It was competitive, more balance, and most importantly fun. Now it is everything but the latter. True, only enjoyable games are those ones with 4 friends. Since S7, I got at least 50 pentas and I can't remember a single one of them. Unlike that, in S5/6 I got around 15 and I can almost perfectly describe how I got at least 9/10 of them. Riot is replacing enjoyment with competitiveness and it is a very bad idea.
Fajerk (EUW)
: Riot is continuously buffing support since early seasons because ppl did not want to play them, they are not going to nerf them now to revert all they work right?
> [{quoted}](name=Fajerk,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iNAqrZjL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-03T13:51:15.974+0000) > > Riot is continuously buffing support since early seasons because ppl did not want to play them, they are not going to nerf them now to revert all they work right? Who cares, those who like helping teammats will play support, others won't. Buffs or nerfs won't change that.
Rioter Comments
Infernape (EUW)
: >He has no dmg in his kit anymore.. the only way to deal dmg is building onhit items like duskblade. Duskblade is an assassin item. Shaco is an assassin. What's wrong with that? Shaco has always built flat pen.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ANmA3Wc9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-31T13:03:30.943+0000) > > Duskblade is an assassin item. Shaco is an assassin. What&#x27;s wrong with that? Shaco has always built flat pen. Because making a champion 100% reliant on an item is bad and kills of diversity.
Riryz (EUW)
: Its dead. people playing the game for fun? thats not really happening anymore. its really hard to continue to have fun game after game after game where you constantly see the same champions picked or banned. besides that not everyone is funny or has at least a group of somewhat funny people they can use for content and those that made "good quality content" became bored of the game or matured from their "funny" character and stopped making new vids and/or converted to other games. btw its not like all good content channels are dead, i do for example enjoy the occasional bunnyfufuu, nightblue or tilterella vids (come one out and judge me), though they become kind of repetetive its still nice to watch when you have nothing to do.
> [{quoted}](name=Riryz,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=x88lP0gw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-30T23:49:53.536+0000) > > Its dead. people playing the game for fun? thats not really happening anymore. its really hard to continue to have fun game after game after game where you constantly see the same champions picked or banned. > > besides that not everyone is funny or has at least a group of somewhat funny people they can use for content and those that made &quot;good quality content&quot; became bored of the game or matured from their &quot;funny&quot; character and stopped making new vids and/or converted to other games. > > btw its not like all good content channels are dead, i do for example enjoy the occasional bunnyfufuu, nightblue or tilterella vids (come one out and judge me), though they become kind of repetetive its still nice to watch when you have nothing to do. Well, I find Nightblue3 very amusing and fun unlike Bunnyfufuu whom I find cancerous. I'm saying that most of the League videos are highlights of professional players and high elo streamers (not smurfing) and it is not fun to watch them because they are all very serious. I like NB3 because : 1. He is never serious 2. Picks off meta in challenger games and still wins. Shacolone is one of the people whose videos I agree with (criticism).
Hydnoras (EUW)
: >I think that 'losing' players is just an excuse An excuse for what? what do they possibly have to gain by lying about it? Nothing. So this whole conspiracy theory is pointless.
> [{quoted}](name=Hydnoras,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=rceuyJ9m,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T23:42:21.647+0000) > > An excuse for what? what do they possibly have to gain by lying about it? Nothing. So this whole conspiracy theory is pointless. Because they can afford to lie while keeping the true reasons sealed from everybody else. They have nothing to lose with lies. They said they would fix the game and now look at Patch 8.11. It is such a wonderful patch that tanks will become useless.
Hydnoras (EUW)
: Well, pretty much all the other type of content has already been made. And there still is other content, you just have to find it. Your youtube suggests those stream highlights for you because you have watched that type of videos so it doesn't suggest the other ones for you.
> [{quoted}](name=Hydnoras,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=x88lP0gw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-30T23:40:15.800+0000) > > Well, pretty much all the other type of content has already been made. And there still is other content, you just have to find it. Your youtube suggests those stream highlights for you because you have watched that type of videos so it doesn&#x27;t suggest the other ones for you. Except that content is in complete decline and trashy stream highlights is replacing everything. I don't watch highlights because they suck and are low quality trash, also they are boring.
Riryz (EUW)
: To be honest i think its more like they gain a lot of players again and then slowly over time lose them again. only my guess though because we dont know the statistics like riot does. and even if they lied they still have to have some sort of excuse to not give us a mode meant to troll us for 1 april fools too much. also ARURF wont really affect too much though. i mean its a pretty frustrating gamemode. i mean its just praying to the gods of RNG that your team gets the OP stuff or if you get something thats fun to play since like 80% of these games are just 1 team getting broken teamcomps vs lame weak comps.
> [{quoted}](name=Riryz,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=rceuyJ9m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-30T23:32:00.458+0000) > > To be honest i think its more like they gain a lot of players again and then slowly over time lose them again. only my guess though because we dont know the statistics like riot does. and even if they lied they still have to have some sort of excuse to not give us a mode meant to troll us for 1 april fools too much. > > also ARURF wont really affect too much though. i mean its a pretty frustrating gamemode. i mean its just praying to the gods of RNG that your team gets the OP stuff or if you get something thats fun to play since like 80% of these games are just 1 team getting broken teamcomps vs lame weak comps. 1. I think that 'losing' players is just an excuse 2. I agree with the 2nd paragraph.
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Naranjo1

Level 115 (EUNE)
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