: > Do you know what black out means?When uou use auto attack enhaners like Nasus Q and darius w, the abillity doesn't go on cd befre you autoattack. Rengar couldn't use double Q because of that reason.Yea he could emp Q auto and then Q auto. Except you could queue up your Qs... > (Empowered) Savagery has no cast time and does not interrupt Rengar's previous orders. So you could empowered Q, Q again, then empowered Q, as the Q and empowered Q have separate cooldowns and the empowered Q effectively has no cooldown so long as you can get enough ferocity. So the black out doesn't actually work with rengar, that's only when the cooldown starts after the empowered attack is used, both normal Q and empowered Q wouldn't be on cooldown thus you can use it straight away. > And im sure that either you didn't play with your team or you had no armor. Or maybe Rengar got more farm than you 16 Cs =1 kill. I was with my team when it happened, and rengar was under tower all game taking harass and getting killed so I doubt he had more farm than me... and generally speaking when you beat someone in lane you don't get armour to protect against them as you expect them to take some time to actually come back... got insta killed first teamfight by him and then he made sure it was too dangerous to farm for defensive items.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfzdaIm1,comment-id=0002000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-11T11:04:23.405+0000) > > Except you could queue up your Qs... > > So you could empowered Q, Q again, then empowered Q, as the Q and empowered Q have separate cooldowns and the empowered Q effectively has no cooldown so long as you can get enough ferocity. > So the black out doesn't actually work with rengar, that's only when the cooldown starts after the empowered attack is used, both normal Q and empowered Q wouldn't be on cooldown thus you can use it straight away. > > I was with my team when it happened, and rengar was under tower all game taking harass and getting killed so I doubt he had more farm than me... and generally speaking when you beat someone in lane you don't get armour to protect against them as you expect them to take some time to actually come back... got insta killed first teamfight by him and then he made sure it was too dangerous to farm for defensive items. You are actually %%%%%%et in order for Rengar to get 3 Qs he needs at least 3 seconds AFTER ulting. This is a cenario Rengar has 5 stacks ults Preses EMP Q before jumping and then all his other abillities now he has 3 ferocity he needs 2 more seconds to get his third Q since his ult Generates ferocity AFTER he leaps. You caouldn't sack Qs the Bar was just blacked out untill you autoattack. You are just %%%%%%et ADC main who just wants Rengar to be out of the game because you go alone versus a fed Rengar. And im sure that the ''0/3 Rengar stroy '' is not true either. You haven't even played Rengar .
: > And yea you are playing ADC toplane maybe an ASSASIN can 1 vs 1 you ....... Except I was the one 1v1ing him... you didn't read what I said. I killed him in lane 3 times, he had no kills... first teamfight he one shot me. > And when he uses EMP Q it blacks out so it can't be combined with his normal Q. Except that's complete BS... that doesn't actually happen, you can Q and then reset it with another Q... there was never any mechanic stopping it, seriously if there was it would be recorded in the wiki... > ACTIVE: Rengar's next two basic attacks gain 40% bonus attack speed, with the first within 3 seconds also dealing bonus physical damage. > BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 (+ 0 / 5 / 10 / 15 / 20% AD) > Savagery 2 old > EMPOWERED ACTIVE: Savagery's bonus physical damage is increased to 30 - 240 (based on level) (+ 30% AD) and applying it grants Rengar 50 - 101 (based on level)% bonus attack speed as well as 20% AD bonus physical damage for 5 seconds. > Savagery resets Rengar's basic attack timer. > > Ability Details > (Empowered) Savagery is an on-hit effect with a self-targeted buff component. > The enhanced attack applies other on-hit effects as well as life steal and can critically strike as normal (the bonus damage cannot) but does not affect structures. > (Empowered) Savagery can be dodged, parried, blocked, and/or negated if Rengar is Blind icon blinded. > Spell shields will block the damage. > Additional Information: > > (Empowered) Savagery has no cast time and does not interrupt Rengar's previous orders. Notice the lack of anything referring to empowered abilities blocking it out Also > FEROCITY: Rengar generates 1 Ferocity whenever he damages an enemy with an ability. Upon reaching 5 Ferocity, his next basic ability is empowered, can be cast independently of its basic version's cooldown, incurs no cooldown of its own, and consumes all of his Ferocity. Nothing there as well... in fact it pretty much says you can. So you can't say that this mechanic exists because there is more evidence against it, especially when other people here have referred to it despite you claiming it doesn't exist (if you manage your ferocity it is possible to do 3 of them... but two of them are very easy to do).
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfzdaIm1,comment-id=00020002000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-10T22:40:23.874+0000) > > Except I was the one 1v1ing him... you didn't read what I said. I killed him in lane 3 times, he had no kills... first teamfight he one shot me. > > Except that's complete BS... that doesn't actually happen, you can Q and then reset it with another Q... there was never any mechanic stopping it, seriously if there was it would be recorded in the wiki... > > Notice the lack of anything referring to empowered abilities blocking it out > > Also > > Nothing there as well... in fact it pretty much says you can. > > So you can't say that this mechanic exists because there is more evidence against it, especially when other people here have referred to it despite you claiming it doesn't exist (if you manage your ferocity it is possible to do 3 of them... but two of them are very easy to do). Do you know what black out means?When uou use auto attack enhaners like Nasus Q and darius w, the abillity doesn't go on cd befre you autoattack. Rengar couldn't use double Q because of that reason.Yea he could emp Q auto and then Q auto. And im sure that either you didn't play with your team or you had no armor. Or maybe Rengar got more farm than you 16 Cs =1 kill.
: Прав си майна!
> [{quoted}](name=3xtrat3rr3strial,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfzdaIm1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-10T21:37:22.753+0000) > > Прав си майна! Всичко което казвам е истина.Играл съм новия и стария Rengar .И новия съква задник.
: > First of all Rengar couldn't oneshot with Q it was all EMP Q ,Hydra,E mid air,W and another Q with thunderlords and that took like 1 second to execute . Yes he could oneshot with 2 Qs but that is only when he is extremely fed. Actually when done right rengar could auto reset his Q 3 times before he touches the ground resulting in all 3 Qs going off simultaneously combined with crits... resulting in burst that could either kill or seriously maim someone in 0.2-0.5 seconds... if it only maimed only a few auto attacks and a E was required after wards... and not even when fed, I've seen 0/3 rengars do this to me after I had solo killed him in lane all 3 times, suddenly he gets first item and every teamfight I died instantly from a rengar I dominated in lane (don't ask how the rengar vs tristana top lane happened... but that's how the game went). > And about the Delay all the other assasins have some kind of escape like LB W, Kat E, Shaco Q and R,Ekko R E Passive , Fizz E, Zed R and W ,Talon E and R,Kha E reset and R,Akali W. all Rengar has is a useless movement speed buff when uses empowered abillity and with all those delays and cast times he is sure to get CCed . So to compensate for the lack of escape people build him bruiser and try to survive while soaking damage. Another reason why riot needs to take a hard stance and actually rework him properly instead of changing as little as possible... they tried to give him a way out of a fight which characterises assassins by giving his W the cc immunity because they didn't want to get rid of any abilities... resulting in it getting abused, then the cc immunity got removed and assassin rengar died because he couldn't brute force kills nor could he actually get out of a fight like an assassin resulting in the bruiser build taking over (which is pretty much what happened the last time he was reworked before the burst combo put him on the map). I say scrap the W entirely and give him a proper assassin tool instead of trying to squeeze it into the roar then having to remove it again... cause even then it was more of a skirmisher tool than an assassin tool.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfzdaIm1,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2017-07-10T20:25:26.026+0000) > > Actually when done right rengar could auto reset his Q 3 times before he touches the ground resulting in all 3 Qs going off simultaneously combined with crits... resulting in burst that could either kill or seriously maim someone in 0.2-0.5 seconds... if it only maimed only a few auto attacks and a E was required after wards... and not even when fed, I've seen 0/3 rengars do this to me after I had solo killed him in lane all 3 times, suddenly he gets first item and every teamfight I died instantly from a rengar I dominated in lane (don't ask how the rengar vs tristana top lane happened... but that's how the game went). > > Another reason why riot needs to take a hard stance and actually rework him properly instead of changing as little as possible... they tried to give him a way out of a fight which characterises assassins by giving his W the cc immunity because they didn't want to get rid of any abilities... resulting in it getting abused, then the cc immunity got removed and assassin rengar died because he couldn't brute force kills nor could he actually get out of a fight like an assassin resulting in the bruiser build taking over (which is pretty much what happened the last time he was reworked before the burst combo put him on the map). > > I say scrap the W entirely and give him a proper assassin tool instead of trying to squeeze it into the roar then having to remove it again... cause even then it was more of a skirmisher tool than an assassin tool. Rengar CAN'T 3ple Q in 1 second.And when he uses EMP Q it blacks out so it can't be combined with his normal Q.Rengar needed AT LEAST 3 Seconds AFTER ULTING to get a Triple Q.Here is someone who shittalks Rengar without even knowing what hs abillityes did.Like most of the players that complain about him, theh don't know the truth. And yea you are playing ADC toplane maybe an ASSASIN can 1 vs 1 you .......
: Firstly this is the most thought out rengar discussion that's ever been on the boards... So well done for that. Anyway... onto the discussion. > , a full revert with some changes like the removal of aforementioned rarely known ult mechanics A revert is out of the question... the sad and ironic truth is that this is the healthiest rengar has ever been... and like you said he is in a terrible position atm. Old rengar had a plethora of issues, not just the ult but the fact that he could kill with his Q instantly meaning unless you managed to flash at perfectly the right time you where dead, something unlike to happen unless you had near 0 latency... having to hope there isn't any latency to survive in a game like this is unacceptable. Honestly, my opinion is that riot need to frankly grow a pair and stop beating around the bush... 2 reworks on this champion which has changed the bare minimum... the two previous incarnations became extremely toxic and the last rengar and this one where considered useless until something toxic emerged to be abused... riot honestly need to crack down on him and scrap most of his kit... start from scratch, cause the way I see it besides his leap from the bush and maybe the ult after heavy tweaking nothing else is really deserving of staying atm... just get rid of it all and build him back up from scratch... Only way I see rengar ever getting to a position where assassin rengar can work without relying on something toxic to keep him afloat. > This is because rather than designing a kit that gives tools to facilitate assassinate such as having no delays Actually you'd be surprised... most of the assassins in he game have some kind of delay on their kits, whether that's priming times like shaco, Kat and leblanc, cast times like rengar, slow moving abilities like talon or ekko, pausing combat like akali or kha, or flat out delays like zed and fizz... an assassins kit needs to have the tools to compensate for these delays and the assassins player needs to have the skill to turn these delays into an advantage... your right that rengar's delay is contributing to some of his issues but that's mostly because his kit has always been more brute force than an assassin with a delay can afford, plus rengar plays just went from the fastest burst speed in the game to one of the slowest... that's gotta contribute to the clunkyness.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=yfzdaIm1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-10T18:36:49.823+0000) > > Firstly this is the most thought out rengar discussion that's ever been on the boards... So well done for that. > > Anyway... onto the discussion. > > A revert is out of the question... the sad and ironic truth is that this is the healthiest rengar has ever been... and like you said he is in a terrible position atm. Old rengar had a plethora of issues, not just the ult but the fact that he could kill with his Q instantly meaning unless you managed to flash at perfectly the right time you where dead, something unlike to happen unless you had near 0 latency... having to hope there isn't any latency to survive in a game like this is unacceptable. > > Honestly, my opinion is that riot need to frankly grow a pair and stop beating around the bush... 2 reworks on this champion which has changed the bare minimum... the two previous incarnations became extremely toxic and the last rengar and this one where considered useless until something toxic emerged to be abused... riot honestly need to crack down on him and scrap most of his kit... start from scratch, cause the way I see it besides his leap from the bush and maybe the ult after heavy tweaking nothing else is really deserving of staying atm... just get rid of it all and build him back up from scratch... Only way I see rengar ever getting to a position where assassin rengar can work without relying on something toxic to keep him afloat. > > Actually you'd be surprised... most of the assassins in he game have some kind of delay on their kits, whether that's priming times like shaco, Kat and leblanc, cast times like rengar, slow moving abilities like talon or ekko, pausing combat like akali or kha, or flat out delays like zed and fizz... an assassins kit needs to have the tools to compensate for these delays and the assassins player needs to have the skill to turn these delays into an advantage... your right that rengar's delay is contributing to some of his issues but that's mostly because his kit has always been more brute force than an assassin with a delay can afford, plus rengar plays just went from the fastest burst speed in the game to one of the slowest... that's gotta contribute to the clunkyness. First of all Rengar couldn't oneshot with Q it was all EMP Q ,Hydra,E mid air,W and another Q with thunderlords and that took like 1 second to execute . Yes he could oneshot with 2 Qs but that is only when he is extremely fed. And about the Delay all the other assasins have some kind of escape like LB W, Kat E, Shaco Q and R,Ekko R E Passive , Fizz E, Zed R and W ,Talon E and R,Kha E reset and R,Akali W. all Rengar has is a useless movement speed buff when uses empowered abillity and with all those delays and cast times he is sure to get CCed . So to compensate for the lack of escape people build him bruiser and try to survive while soaking damage. I have played all these assasins and Rengar does not feel like any of them. I can even say that champs like Yasuo ,Riven and Renekon are better assasins than him.
: Rengar's current problems
Riot please do something.No information about Rengars state,avoiding contact with us,no posts asking us what is wrong with Rengar. Riot we the Rengar mains are big community(Top 5 biggest) and you really don't care about one of the most fun champions to play. Yea he is not fun to play against but Rengar took skill and strategy in order to play him well.
: Yeah I noticed that problem 3 days ago, too. For me I cannot really play at the moment because of that, the lags doesn't even show in my ping, which is 21 to 23. It just feels like that some of my commands I do like a Movement Command or an Attack Command doesn't come off, and as an adc player it really hurts my playstyle. I noticed too that like in everygame someone has huge lags or lagspikes either on my team or on the opposite. Playing also on the Frankfurt servers.
> [{quoted}](name=DÜIN tiyú,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=tNEh59E2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-06-23T10:35:24.811+0000) > > Yeah I noticed that problem 3 days ago, too. > For me I cannot really play at the moment because of that, the lags doesn't even show in my ping, which is 21 to 23. > It just feels like that some of my commands I do like a Movement Command or an Attack Command doesn't come off, and as an adc player it really hurts my playstyle. > I noticed too that like in everygame someone has huge lags or lagspikes either on my team or on the opposite. > Playing also on the Frankfurt servers. Don't even get me started i play Rengar and Riven ........ and everything happening from 1-3 seconds later is not very fun
Sidias (EUNE)
: This is %%%%ign perfect. Most ppl have 40 fps and higher ping...Atleast you can play.
> [{quoted}](name=Sidias,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=ojtWZTg3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-23T10:46:48.477+0000) > > This is %%%%ign perfect. Most ppl have 40 fps and higher ping...Atleast you can play. The problem its that IT JUST FREEZES FOR NO REASON. Even when i have strong computer and internet conection it still stops like never did. And BTW i can't even start a game literaly waiting a whole minute just to click Confirm and Que in
radetari (EUNE)
: OMG JUST GET ME OUT OF HERE
I got out from Bronze4 to Silver5 in 50 games and then 100 games to Gold5 and then 200 games to plat 5 I started last year patch 6.9 its if you want to get out of Bronze just play better GIT GUD . The problem is not your team its you!
Rioter Comments
: I don't think you quite read something I originally said. Old rengar used to be considered useless before the combo got discovered... New ferocity system makes the combo impossible... guess what's gonna happen... you rengar mains will be making the same arguments your making atm because that's what happened last time... Old rengar could only work with the old ferocity system because he only worked due to that combo, removing the combo would put him in a more unhealthy spot than he is atm.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=HjOiEdF3,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T10:35:04.236+0000) > > I don't think you quite read something I originally said. > > Old rengar used to be considered useless before the combo got discovered... New ferocity system makes the combo impossible... guess what's gonna happen... you rengar mains will be making the same arguments your making atm because that's what happened last time... > > Old rengar could only work with the old ferocity system because he only worked due to that combo, removing the combo would put him in a more unhealthy spot than he is atm. Here is how the combo works you have 4 ferocity. If you jump in combat from a bush or with ult you get 1 stack and with 3 abillityes makes 4 . Works only one time and if you take damage before you jump you don't get the stack.
: > I know he wasn`t very healthy champ but he had to get at least 10 kills to fully oneshot you. And the heal on W makes no sence. His Q is ..... And the ult indicator range is bigger than it needs to be . That's just not true... rengar could one shot after hitting his mid game power spike... hence why even rengars who where seriously behind ended up one shotting people. The W heal is because he needed a tool to not get killed... this has been an issue with rengar which always leads to bruiser rengar, he was only viable as an assassin because of an unfair burst combo... he needs something to survive a fight like the other assassins, this is his. His Q was a necessity... considering the burst combo revolved completely around the Q... the goal was to slow him down... adding cast times is the natural progression of things. Also before you go back to the whole janna thing remember his Q is an auto attack reset... alone it's bad damage but you auto then use it to get essentially a free auto off... I'm amazed rengar mains keep missing this considering your burst combo revolved around auto resetting an ungodly amount of times as you hit the ground. The ult indicator is the size it needs to be... previously he could kill before people have the chance to see the indicator... there is no point in a warning if it comes 0.5 seconds before you die. > The rework is success to other people that don`t play Rengar. Im sure Riot didn`t think at all when they were working on it. Just think about it my points on each abillity i mentioned are true! They only needet to change his ferocity and his R to camoflage . Yes because that's the idea... rengar was anti fun because of his toxicity... And news flash... there are way more non rengar players than rengar mains, what makes an extremely small minority any more important than the vast majority. If your fun has to come at our expense you don't deserve to have that fun, simple as that. And what you are saying is not true... your complaining about everything that makes the new rengar healthier than the old one... your complaining that he can't kill in 0.2 seconds, your complaining that his indicator doesn't appear as he is leaping, you are complaining that you can't make everyone's lives miserable. Even with camo... cause remember he can leap further than he gets revealed... So he can completely bypass that counter play by doing the exact same thing he was doing. Counter play is useless if the champion gets to bypass it like rengar dies. > And i say that they made the Reworks ,they saw that they are better as bruisers like shaco and kha`zix(he builds like 1 def item like deadmans with 2dmg/defense items like maw,cleaver,GA) and just let them be that without realy changing them for more of an assasin playstile. Not in the slightest... remember that one of the goals for the tank update was to try and kill off these bruiser builds... they are unhealthy and riot have been trying to kill all of them off (kha was even reworked last time he became a bruiser, ekko has been going through a year of riot trying to kill that build)... So riot didn't try to enforce anything... if anything they are trying to do the opposite.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=HjOiEdF3,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-05-21T09:34:17.662+0000) > > That's just not true... rengar could one shot after hitting his mid game power spike... hence why even rengars who where seriously behind ended up one shotting people. > > The W heal is because he needed a tool to not get killed... this has been an issue with rengar which always leads to bruiser rengar, he was only viable as an assassin because of an unfair burst combo... he needs something to survive a fight like the other assassins, this is his. > > His Q was a necessity... considering the burst combo revolved completely around the Q... the goal was to slow him down... adding cast times is the natural progression of things. > Also before you go back to the whole janna thing remember his Q is an auto attack reset... alone it's bad damage but you auto then use it to get essentially a free auto off... I'm amazed rengar mains keep missing this considering your burst combo revolved around auto resetting an ungodly amount of times as you hit the ground. > > The ult indicator is the size it needs to be... previously he could kill before people have the chance to see the indicator... there is no point in a warning if it comes 0.5 seconds before you die. > > Yes because that's the idea... rengar was anti fun because of his toxicity... And news flash... there are way more non rengar players than rengar mains, what makes an extremely small minority any more important than the vast majority. > If your fun has to come at our expense you don't deserve to have that fun, simple as that. > > And what you are saying is not true... your complaining about everything that makes the new rengar healthier than the old one... your complaining that he can't kill in 0.2 seconds, your complaining that his indicator doesn't appear as he is leaping, you are complaining that you can't make everyone's lives miserable. > Even with camo... cause remember he can leap further than he gets revealed... So he can completely bypass that counter play by doing the exact same thing he was doing. > > Counter play is useless if the champion gets to bypass it like rengar dies. > > Not in the slightest... remember that one of the goals for the tank update was to try and kill off these bruiser builds... they are unhealthy and riot have been trying to kill all of them off (kha was even reworked last time he became a bruiser, ekko has been going through a year of riot trying to kill that build)... > So riot didn't try to enforce anything... if anything they are trying to do the opposite. Old Q with the new ferocity system will give you chance to CC him while he is doing his combo. He can't jump on you with full stacks anymore. And the camo in my experiense makes things so much harder. its a counterplay ,but if only 2+ champs are there .He can't just bypass the supp and tank anymore . Aslo they will know on which side you are since the indicator is on the nearest enemy.The best counter to Rengar was to not go alone. People complain beacuse they get greedy for farm without realising that Rengar is in the game! And beacuse of that Rengar got reworked beacuse people just felt that there was no way to counter him when they are splitpushing as ADC. In my opinion he only needet the camoflage and the new ferocity.
: Rengar can jump further than camo reveal range, and he can close the distance fast enough for the indicator to become worthless... the whole point was that rengar was bypassing his counter play, trying to revert this would be extremely unhealthy.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=HjOiEdF3,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T09:35:51.530+0000) > > Rengar can jump further than camo reveal range, and he can close the distance fast enough for the indicator to become worthless... the whole point was that rengar was bypassing his counter play, trying to revert this would be extremely unhealthy. Here is how the ult works. You activate it you alert the enemy and then you have to wait 2 sec before jumping is that clear enough for you?
Infernape (EUW)
: "RAAAH I HATE COUNTERPLAY". It's funny watching them QQ over not being able to burst someone in 0.5 seconds while being completely invisible.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=HjOiEdF3,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-20T23:47:10.333+0000) > > "RAAAH I HATE COUNTERPLAY". > > It's funny watching them QQ over not being able to burst someone in 0.5 seconds while being completely invisible. They only needet to ad the ult camoflage and new ferocity system . i said that the camoflqge system was made for counterplay and ok i will take that read it one more time . My problem was with the vision indicator.
: > And that is not even wiith only him ,Shaco,Fizz and even Kha`zix are starting to feel more like brusers and tanks. Starting??? Bruiser rengar has been a since his first rework, prob longer from his top lane days, bruiser shaco was a thing since TH at least, fizz became a bruiser back when they shifted his W around long before his rework, and bruiser kha was an issue back during his prime at S4 when his Q did % missing damage. So saying the reworks created these bruiser builds is pure BS... pretty much every assassin in the game baring maybe zed has had a bruiser build pop off at some point in their lives... regardless of reworks... So no these reworks didn't fail because of bruiser builds. As for rengar specifically... it's actually down to him not being toxic anymore... when rengar got his first rework people would build him bruiser and say pretty much exactly what people are saying about new rengar... assassin rengar only took off when people discovered the combo that let him kill in 0.2 seconds, almost a year after the rework happened. Now that toxic combo is gone he has reverted back into his state where he is considered a bruiser because he lacks burst. So basically rengar gets reduced to being considered useless or bad when ever there isn't something toxic he can't abuse... happened with the first rengar and happened with the second (and prob will happen to this one as well)... this isn't a problem with any rework its just rengar being a bad champion and requiring a complete kit overhaul. And the rework didn't fail... it set out to do several things... slow his burst, make him less toxic, make his empowered W an actual option outside of the jungle, increasing counter play for adcs, and increase the clarity of his ult so people don't die within 0.5 seconds of the icon appearing Every single one of these points where either met or vastly improved upon from the old version... thus the rework was a success. And honestly face it... this is the healthiest position rengar has been in since his release... And that's not saying much considering he is struggling.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=HjOiEdF3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-20T23:14:35.777+0000) > > Starting??? > > Bruiser rengar has been a since his first rework, prob longer from his top lane days, bruiser shaco was a thing since TH at least, fizz became a bruiser back when they shifted his W around long before his rework, and bruiser kha was an issue back during his prime at S4 when his Q did % missing damage. > > So saying the reworks created these bruiser builds is pure BS... pretty much every assassin in the game baring maybe zed has had a bruiser build pop off at some point in their lives... regardless of reworks... So no these reworks didn't fail because of bruiser builds. > > As for rengar specifically... it's actually down to him not being toxic anymore... when rengar got his first rework people would build him bruiser and say pretty much exactly what people are saying about new rengar... assassin rengar only took off when people discovered the combo that let him kill in 0.2 seconds, almost a year after the rework happened. > Now that toxic combo is gone he has reverted back into his state where he is considered a bruiser because he lacks burst. > > So basically rengar gets reduced to being considered useless or bad when ever there isn't something toxic he can't abuse... happened with the first rengar and happened with the second (and prob will happen to this one as well)... this isn't a problem with any rework its just rengar being a bad champion and requiring a complete kit overhaul. > > And the rework didn't fail... it set out to do several things... slow his burst, make him less toxic, make his empowered W an actual option outside of the jungle, increasing counter play for adcs, and increase the clarity of his ult so people don't die within 0.5 seconds of the icon appearing > > Every single one of these points where either met or vastly improved upon from the old version... thus the rework was a success. > > And honestly face it... this is the healthiest position rengar has been in since his release... And that's not saying much considering he is struggling. I know he wasn`t very healthy champ but he had to get at least 10 kills to fully oneshot you. And the heal on W makes no sence. His Q is ..... And the ult indicator range is bigger than it needs to be . The rework is success to other people that don`t play Rengar. Im sure Riot didn`t think at all when they were working on it. Just think about it my points on each abillity i mentioned are true! They only needet to change his ferocity and his R to camoflage . And i say that they made the Reworks ,they saw that they are better as bruisers like shaco and kha`zix(he builds like 1 def item like deadmans with 2dmg/defense items like maw,cleaver,GA) and just let them be that without realy changing them for more of an assasin playstile.
Rioter Comments
Febos (EUW)
: I don't mean to be rude, but it's kinda hard to read that text. Try some text indentation and proper punctuation.
> [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ptkwVwEr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-19T11:37:43.219+0000) > > I don't mean to be rude, but it's kinda hard to read that text. Try some text indentation and proper punctuation. English is my second language and if you ask most of Rengar mains they want the old one beacuse his kit actually makes sence
: Rengar can still be good
> [{quoted}](name=Sarchiapon,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ptkwVwEr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-19T12:12:22.217+0000) > > Rengar can still be good Yes sure in every fifth game on avrg
: I think the new Rengar is really strong when played right...
> [{quoted}](name=Zantonny,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ptkwVwEr,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-19T11:52:55.740+0000) > > I think the new Rengar is really strong when played right... Yes he is strong once every 5 games when the enemy jg is to %%%%%%et not to invade you
Rioter Comments
: He's getting nerfed over and over since his release ^.^ #Lee Sin Nerfs : ** ** Patch Notes 7.10 MOVEMENT SPEED: 350 ⇒ 345 R - Dragon's Rage COOLDOWN: 90/75/60 seconds ⇒ 110/85/60 seconds ** ** Patch Notes 7.1 E - Tempest THE BLIND MONK: No longer reveals invisible targets. ONLY YOU: Now only reveals targets damaged by Tempest (no longer reveals nearby allies of damaged targets) R - Dragon's Rage DAMAGE: 200/400/600 ⇒ 150/300/450 ** ** Patch Notes 6.14 SHIELD AMOUNT: 40/80/120/160/200 ⇒ 40/100/160/220/280 ** ** Patch Notes 4.20 General BASE ARMOR: 26 ⇒ 24 BASE HEALTH REGENERATION: +9.4 health per 5 seconds ⇒ +7.425 health per 5 seconds ** ** Patch Notes 4.13 General BASE HEALTH REGEN: 6.95 health per 5 seconds ⇒ 8.95 health per 5 seconds W - Safeguard SHIELD DURATION: 4 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds E - Cripple "REMOVED" NEVER SKIP LEG DAY: Cripple no longer reduces enemy attack speed (only reduces movement speed) ** ** Patch Notes 4.5 W - Safeguard COOLDOWN: 9 seconds ⇒ 14 seconds "NEW" UTILITY: Cooldown reduced by 50% if cast on Lee Sin or an allied champion SHIELD DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds "REMOVED" UTILITY: Lee Sin gains a shield when Safeguard is cast on non-champion units W - Iron Will DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds ** ** Patch Notes 3.15 W - Safeguard Now only shields the target if the ally is a champion ** **
> [{quoted}](name=SandrineCacheton,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-19T08:06:02.514+0000) > > He's getting nerfed over and over since his release ^.^ > > #Lee Sin Nerfs : > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 7.10 > > MOVEMENT SPEED: 350 ⇒ 345 > > R - Dragon's Rage > > COOLDOWN: 90/75/60 seconds ⇒ 110/85/60 seconds > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 7.1 > > > E - Tempest > THE BLIND MONK: No longer reveals invisible targets. > ONLY YOU: Now only reveals targets damaged by Tempest (no longer reveals nearby allies of damaged targets) > > R - Dragon's Rage > DAMAGE: 200/400/600 ⇒ 150/300/450 > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 6.14 > > SHIELD AMOUNT: 40/80/120/160/200 ⇒ 40/100/160/220/280 > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 4.20 > > General > BASE ARMOR: 26 ⇒ 24 > BASE HEALTH REGENERATION: +9.4 health per 5 seconds ⇒ +7.425 health per 5 seconds > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 4.13 > > General > BASE HEALTH REGEN: 6.95 health per 5 seconds ⇒ 8.95 health per 5 seconds > > W - Safeguard > SHIELD DURATION: 4 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds > > E - Cripple > "REMOVED" NEVER SKIP LEG DAY: Cripple no longer reduces enemy attack speed (only reduces movement speed) > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 4.5 > > W - Safeguard > COOLDOWN: 9 seconds ⇒ 14 seconds > "NEW" UTILITY: Cooldown reduced by 50% if cast on Lee Sin or an allied champion > SHIELD DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > "REMOVED" UTILITY: Lee Sin gains a shield when Safeguard is cast on non-champion units > > W - Iron Will > DURATION: 5 seconds ⇒ 4 seconds > > ** ** > > Patch Notes 3.15 > W - Safeguard > Now only shields the target if the ally is a champion > > ** ** 1/5 of them are buffs and Idont see any major nerfs look Rengar nerf hystory cus im lazy to tell it all
: > [{quoted}](name=ProtexBG,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-05-17T20:20:10.021+0000) > > His last 2(the armor and Q dmg) nerfs made 0 snce He had allready 48% winrate before them Win rate doesn't always correlate with accurate power scaling. You have to consider pick rate and the overall opinions and experience of people playing against him. Also, player-skill related factors.
> [{quoted}](name=NorthernRedStar,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T17:54:38.056+0000) > > Win rate doesn't always correlate with accurate power scaling. You have to consider pick rate and the overall opinions and experience of people playing against him. Also, player-skill related factors. Lee is most Poppular Jg and he has around 47-51 % winrate across everywhere and he only god Nerfed by 20 Cd on ult and 5 ms and that low winrate is cus everybody is playing him if there were only lee mains expect upwards of 55%
: You do realize the reason he hasn't gotten any buffs is him being massively overtuned at the release of his rework. His kit has everything and anything on top of ridiculous damage.
> [{quoted}](name=NorthernRedStar,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-17T19:56:28.565+0000) > > You do realize the reason he hasn't gotten any buffs is him being massively overtuned at the release of his rework. His kit has everything and anything on top of ridiculous damage. His last 2(the armor and Q dmg) nerfs made 0 snce He had allready 48% winrate before them
noob infant (EUNE)
: it was not just one game, but the trend in general - didn't ban regnar and regnar main in enemy team = he will be raping everyoene. my experience with that champion was similar so it was not only in high elo by the time you cc your main carry is dead, so once the cc is over he instakills your second carry and precedes to kill the rest of the team anyway I'm taliking about old regnar. don't see him as much now, but he kinda feels more balanced - he has equal impact as other junglers
> [{quoted}](name=noob infant,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T19:44:01.053+0000) > > it was not just one game, but the trend in general - didn't ban regnar and regnar main in enemy team = he will be raping everyoene. my experience with that champion was similar so it was not only in high elo > > by the time you cc your main carry is dead, so once the cc is over he instakills your second carry and precedes to kill the rest of the team > anyway I'm taliking about old regnar. don't see him as much now, but he kinda feels more balanced - he has equal impact as other junglers Equal ?EQUAL? His clear %%%in suks if you dk full clear you have to be good and you still survive like 5%hp.His ganks are terrible cus he is like 30%ish in hp at Level %%%in 3 ! Lee, Elise ,Graves ,Warwick stay above 80% Hp every time they clear. They have Gapclosers,range abillities burst and reliable CC unlike Rengar.He has to gank at like 50% hp from a bush with Q that deals less dmg than janna auto Land E and watch the enemy flash cus its 3:30 into the game and they ward the bush and no wonder why Rengar sucks more than god damn Azir.Literaly the first day on Rengos Q nerf he had 41% winrate as Azir 43%.Riot monkey balance team are %%%in great!
noob infant (EUNE)
: pre rework regnar could 1v5, I 've seen it so many times and have been on recieving end and seen regnar on my team do to the opposition. the famous 0.001 second intaburst kill on any squishy out of nowhere (yep that's how long you could see the question mark over your headbefore you die), even pro players could not react fast enough... let alone my elo I remeber watching some streams form high elo (high diamon/mster/challenger) and if they didn't ban preremake regnar and game went on for more thatn 30 min regnar main in the game he would literally 1v5 everyone while before that mark he could only 1v2 and sometimes 1v3. that made me feel less bad when I wouyld lose to them just as badly
> [{quoted}](name=noob infant,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T19:00:27.193+0000) > > pre rework regnar could 1v5, I 've seen it so many times and have been on recieving end and seen regnar on my team do to the opposition. the famous 0.001 second intaburst kill on any squishy out of nowhere (yep that's how long you could see the question mark over your headbefore you die), even pro players could not react fast enough... let alone my elo > > I remeber watching some streams form high elo (high diamon/mster/challenger) and if they didn't ban preremake regnar and game went on for more thatn 30 min regnar main in the game he would literally 1v5 everyone while before that mark he could only 1v2 and sometimes 1v3. that made me feel less bad when I wouyld lose to them just as badly So then you telling me that Vayne ,Akali,Master Yi ,Katarina,Riven ,Yasuo and many more deserve to be gutted bcus they got 20 kills in 1 NA challenger game ?Is that what you are saying?At least if you stun Rengar he was dead With these others have more mobillity and sacrifice a bit of damage for it but they can still 1vs3 10 times easyer than old Rengar And for the burst combo you need to mid air E Hydra EmpQ norm Q and W in between to oneshot someone .With the new GA and ninja tabi he woud be alot healthyer now than ever! Now adces have literaly their own Zhonias and adces allready do like GA second or third item vs Talon Zed and Draven.
noob infant (EUNE)
: oh noo what have they done, I can't 1v5 anymore. be happy that rito actually tries to balance him , rather then just nerf the shit out of him and dump into 40% winrate like that did so many times with other champions
> [{quoted}](name=noob infant,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-17T18:19:31.187+0000) > > oh noo what have they done, I can't 1v5 anymore. be happy that rito actually tries to balance him , rather then just nerf the shit out of him and dump into 40% winrate like that did so many times with other champions You were never able to 1 vs 5 .Ryze and Azir are still good in pro play( i don`t give a singular shi t about it like 85% of the comunity) i prefer having a game balanced around Plat and gold instead of What it is now Bronze silver and proplay.I hate the Rengar Reweok even when they released him i didn`t think he was the same champion anymore.Old Rengar is in spetial place in my hearth(i started playing rengar around 6.11-6.12 after the Rengar nerf. started to play in 6.9)
Infernape (EUW)
: Because a fighter is completely and utterly comparable to an assassin. They're two different types of champions. They're incomparable.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T17:53:31.382+0000) > > Because a fighter is completely and utterly comparable to an assassin. They're two different types of champions. They're incomparable. Lee early game deals like 30% more damage than Rengar has escape better ganking better sustain and they both build basicly the same things .if you don`t know you get like Warrior ,Cleaver,Maw and then tank on Rengar (just like Lee)
: oh no the enemy team is smart enough to not walk into bushes without vision or are trying to run away through them. Rito pls why u not buff??!??!?!?? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} ######kappa
> [{quoted}](name=FeuerfalkeFX,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T17:17:59.642+0000) > > oh no the enemy team is smart enough to not walk into bushes without vision or are trying to run away through them. Rito pls why u not buff??!??!?!?? > {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} > > ######kappa That is happening all the time trust me and then Bronze and Silver ADC players complain cus they dont know how to play against Rengar.
: Why do u need a buff if u got a 62% win rate on rengar lmfao
> [{quoted}](name=eZ Tahm Kench,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-17T17:02:21.167+0000) > > Why do u need a buff if u got a 62% win rate on rengar lmfao Cus lee mains have 70% and 50% of those games were played when rengar was OP.and they only nerf lee by 50 dmg and 20 secs on ult Rito balance team.
ZeeDrakon (EUW)
: Complains that rengar didnt get buffs when over the last 3 years rengar has consistently been among the most broken champs. Nice joke.
You are a joke im sure you are just don`t know the thing that counters Rengar don`t go alone and don`t go near bushes but i gues some people don`t know what is like from Rengars perspective
: TBH, those chromas look a lot better then some skins... Just sayin
> [{quoted}](name=ImJanemba,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2bVscMNE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-17T16:02:10.886+0000) > > TBH, those chromas look a lot better then some skins... > Just sayin Yes they are nice but realy that is the bst thing rengar got since his revert Fail Rework in S2 or 3 i don't remember
Rioter Comments
: No because that's still not good champion design... rengar needed a toxic gameplay pattern in order to be viable (seriously before that combo became a thing people where saying the exact same thing about old rengar as they currently are about new rengar, right down to thinking he needed to be played as a tank)... reverting him would result in him taking a step backwards as he would become as toxic as he was before, and having to build one particular item to prevent himself from being toxic (an item which might I add adcs where building vs him anyway) isn't good champion design. Face it, his current position is the healthiest spot that rengar has ever been in over his 3 incarnations... and he isn't even in a healthy spot, let that sink in... rengar has never been in a healthy spot and him being considered unviable is what is causing him to be the healthiest he has ever been because all the other times he is ruining the game for everyone else
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UGtwrGjh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-14T22:18:02.713+0000) > > No because that's still not good champion design... rengar needed a toxic gameplay pattern in order to be viable (seriously before that combo became a thing people where saying the exact same thing about old rengar as they currently are about new rengar, right down to thinking he needed to be played as a tank)... reverting him would result in him taking a step backwards as he would become as toxic as he was before, and having to build one particular item to prevent himself from being toxic (an item which might I add adcs where building vs him anyway) isn't good champion design. > > Face it, his current position is the healthiest spot that rengar has ever been in over his 3 incarnations... and he isn't even in a healthy spot, let that sink in... rengar has never been in a healthy spot and him being considered unviable is what is causing him to be the healthiest he has ever been because all the other times he is ruining the game for everyone else That is kinda true but uf there is a Talon ,Zed, Draven or Lucian, the adces already built ninja tabi and GA anyways to couter them This is the counter to Rengar - sacrifice like 800(bereserkers attackspeed) gold to counter him(and the other ADC damage) is that realy that much when you think about it considering these champs have more damage and can escape bad situlations much easier than the old Rengar.If old Rengar will come back now is the time !These items make Rengar healthyer to the game than he has ever been(when he is at decent spot in balance 48%+) and this new kit is %%%in terlrible TBH!even whorse for balance from the old one!
Rstonius (EUW)
: He can still easily one shot someone, but just like every champion and the current rengar, you need to either stall to late game or be fed. Before his nerf Rengar was a champion could easily one shot someone with 1 item, it doesn't matter what defensive items other people have, one shotting after 1 item is insane. He is balanced around being an assassin, if zed gets fed he 1 shots someone, if hes not he doesn't until late game. Same with Rengar, I see no problems at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Rokąs,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=UGtwrGjh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-14T21:19:53.973+0000) > > He can still easily one shot someone, but just like every champion and the current rengar, you need to either stall to late game or be fed. > Before his nerf Rengar was a champion could easily one shot someone with 1 item, it doesn't matter what defensive items other people have, one shotting after 1 item is insane. He is balanced around being an assassin, if zed gets fed he 1 shots someone, if hes not he doesn't until late game. Same with Rengar, I see no problems at all. Before he needet Jg item and youmuus to oneshot Adc that was 2 levels below Rengar ! not just one item he needet 2 items and to be ahead! By this time the Adc can invest 1100 gold into everyones favorite boots Ninja tabi for like 25% dmg reduction and since Rengars Q before was Auto buff (like sheen or camille Q) it aslo got reduced !They can aslo get GA 3rd or 4rth item by these balance factors i think the old Rengar has more counterplay now then any other time! so think twice!
: So you are basicly crying to buff rengar,because new rengar still does the same things as the old one except it is not as fun to kill people.Also I am a jungle main,not adc.
Yes the old Rengar was more fun but the new is more like bruiser (“We are keeping his as an assasin”-riot )and he is now now balanced around being bruiser . And if you build dmg to oneshot someone you have to waste your W but before your W gave you defensive stats on how many people you hit and chanelling his Q he is just a sitting duck waiting to be stunned and CC chained and he can`t go to the adc or midlaner with his R beacuse riot gave to much information on where he is !
Rioter Comments
: > Why do you think then Rengar has so much popularity when he is strong? He is just blast to play!You don`t give a singular crap about the Rengar mains do you? Dude this is basic utilitarianism... your fun caused 5 other people to not have fun, rengar being like that caused more misery than it caused happiness because he was outright anti fun. So this isn't riot not giving a crap about rengar mains, it's riot knowing (and rightfully so) that a rengar main's enjoyment is by no means more important than anyone else's and thus shouldn't come at their expense.
Yes that is true but they made it so Rengar can't get much kills Unles someone is alone Which in Bronze everyone gets greedy to farm and realy Rengar players dont realy like going to kill tanks,brusers and supports so only the midlaner and the adc are envolvet and the midlaners have Zhonias and the adces have the new GA so i don't see problem with Rengar now
archerno1 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ProtexBG,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=X1Rh5LQZ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-12T23:48:01.017+0000) > > Well he can but you are stupid and don`t stand with the support or tank or don` t play around bushes and that is how he gets nerfed beacuse of bronze adces! I dont think his nerfs are based on performance in bronze but in challenger and pro. There are countless videos of challenger adcs getting oneshotted by rengar without chance to respond. https://youtu.be/DJMbmT6Ojio But i guess u know better than Riot, challengers and pros
First of the Rengar is 9/1 second they have no Frontline aka olaf has no CC and they have taliyah support which is ”supposed ”to protect them better think twice ! They needet 1 stun and Rip no plays.and how often do you see those things happend ?That right once! N1 jungler said that if you pick Rengar you are walking potato!And even before the nerfs that happend like every 7-8 games to get that fed on Rengar and You still got oneshot by everything! (as Rengar)
: I play Vayne and don't have problems with Rengar or Kha'zix. Once again, go away with your Rengar rework cries.
Everyone? Lulu, Oriana,Ivern,Galio,Janna mains and many more like Rengar when he is meta you are just a little bich and you are scared beacuse you main adc in 2k17 .And just an example if i want to nerf Vayne as hard as Rengar Lets see bonus dmg 30% Q ,10% True dmg on W woud you feel bad about that uh?
archerno1 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ProtexBG,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=X1Rh5LQZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-12T23:42:52.698+0000) > > Im sure ur a bich ass adc main who cries everytime he gets oneshot nice rito Thats kinda the point isnt it? He cant oneshot anymore
Well he can but you are stupid and don`t stand with the support or tank or don` t play around bushes and that is how he gets nerfed beacuse of bronze adces!
: Go away with all your Rengar rework cries. Everyone is happy to see him weak.
Im sure ur a bich ass adc main who cries everytime he gets oneshot nice rito
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RengarBestWaifu

Level 84 (EUNE)
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