Cypherous (EUW)
: > I never expected random not to be random. I expected there to be implemented tools to reduce randomness. So you want it to be random, but only in your favour? :P Yeah you don't understand what random actually means, its either random or its rigged, there is no middle ground and we don't want rolls to be rigged > You know in poker they reduce random a little bit by allowing you to actually hold cards in the first round? You're comparing an entirely different structured game to this, not really the same thing > I find it interesting one can write perfect English and yet being unable to comprehend how adding RNG into a game makes it less skill based. Because there wasn't any "skill" to begin with, in order for there to be a decrease in skill required there would have to be a skill requirement in the first place, not sure how you're failing to grasp this > Try imagine transforming icehockey into poker. Or Poker into slot machine. Taking away choice is the same as refusing to implement choices. Not even sure what you're trying to get at here, they didn't change anything in to anything else, they never took away your choice because you didn't HAVE a choice in the first place, you can't remove something that never existed > And video games are all about making choices, basically in the current iteration TFT is just a massive slot machine for dummies. And welcome to what it means to be RANDOM, TFT is a RANDOM mode, just like ARAM is a RANDOM mode, are you complaining that you can't get the champion you want in ARAM aswell?
**"Yeah you don't understand what random actually means"** I think you don't actually have a clue what I'm even talking about. I'm not talking about making something random that isn't random. For the 3rd time. I'm trying to ask thing to negate the effects of randomness, but of course would have to come with some penalty. Just like in Hearthstone whoever gets to go first is supposedly the lucky one due to increased chance to win, but the 2nd player gets a coin, making 2nd player able to temporarily come ahead in whatever turn he chooses on top of that player will get a cast spell effect, which benefits specific cards. There, excellent way to not penalise people who get screwed by randomness. First player still has upper hand throughout most of the game but at least 2nd player isn't completely screwed in this 50/50 coinflip. Also no, I certainly do not want luck to only be in my favor. I don't want luck play a major part in the game at all, it should be a spice added to the game, not to be the whole deal. Even in hearthstone you get to craft your deck and create easily unique decks nobody else has. In this game you play exactly same way every game outside of what is being handed to you. The decision making is basically taken out from you and put into this slot machine of who gets to win, I don't like that. **"its either random or its rigged, there is no middle ground and we don't want rolls to be rigged"** And like I said I'm not talking about changing the randomness. I was just using DotA as an expression of tellign that being able to negate randomness is 100% possible, it's just people like you choose to rally behind the idea that Riot is perfect and their design is the best. Even when Riot would actually do exactly what I've said and implement a lot of tools to negate effects of randomness or offer player choice in form of Summoner skills, you'd just move to different topic to find someone else to attack, I doubt you'd be coming back here thanking me from the feedback. **"You're comparing an entirely different structured game to this, not really the same thing"** How exactly is that different from being offered 5 cards to being offered 5 units? Any non-moronic player is going to keep whatever pair he would be holding and potentially aim for straight or flush or something close to it. In fact THIS IS EXACTLY like poker to the very core of the game. Only thing different is that game doesn't end in turn 1 and that there's actually this graphical interface and positioning units... which frankly unless you're a moron should have no problem making the exact right unit poisoning. No wonder everyone thinks gamers are f---ing morons if people like you think putting tanks in front takes 18 years of training and mastering the art of clicking with left mouse button. What really matters in this game are which ever setup is stronger, and it can be basically strong only in 2 ways, either by being some broken meta combo or that you have superior units, aka you just got lucky. Even in case 1 you still need at least level 2 for every single unit, and it can be very hard to get those last tier 4,5 units to level 2 with bad luck.... so you basically get handed 5 cards and you get options to hold or ditch cards. In this game it doesn't actually matter if you hold because you can ditch anyway, which also increases odds for pairs by the way so you'd have to be a moron to save money before you at least get bonus interest. **"Because there wasn't any "skill" to begin with, in order for there to be a decrease in skill required there would have to be a skill requirement in the first place, not sure how you're failing to grasp this"** Okay at this point I'm starting to wonder if I'm just talking to troll. We are talking about League of Legends here, the main game. and no, there is always SOME level of skill involved in any GAME, game literally is defined as "a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other", how can game have no skill if there are rules to follow? "Not even sure what you're trying to get at here, they didn't change anything in to anything else, they never took away your choice because you didn't HAVE a choice in the first place, you can't remove something that never existed" Why are you even quoting me if you fail to understand the 2nd sentence. Let me repeat myself: Taking away choice is the same as refusing to implement choices. When you are creating a game which is in development, and situation arrives, where you could add more player choices, but choose not to, that's you practically taking away something that could have been there. If you see a couple meeting first time and you somehow knew every possible step on their way into giving birth to a child, you could theoretically kill their unborn child by intercepting to their meeting, being able to know the outcome and choose to do action that prevents the outcome into becoming reality is same as removing that outcome from existence, thus they TOOK the player choice away. I mean these guys have been working on the League of Legends for what 9 years and they never ever thought of bringing Summoners into this game mode? Man you must have really high standards to judge Riot games. I guess they just copy paste whatever is successful at the time and only add slight difference to make player not too uneasy to play the different game. Either they must think players are mouthbreathing morons who wonder in the internet looking to press slotmachine or they actually have done studies to actually verify this to be the case, in any case it doesn't really look good for the community... although LoL community was never that great. **"And welcome to what it means to be RANDOM, TFT is a RANDOM mode, just like ARAM is a RANDOM mode, are you complaining that you can't get the champion you want in ARAM aswell?"** ARAM is only random when it comes to picking random units. What you actually choose to do with them in the game is 100% in your control. Also TFT is not all random, there are choices to be made, like items for whatever unit you want to put them, so stop telling this excuse "well it's all just designed to be slot machine, deal with it", like wtf, why are you here? Is Riot paying you or what? At least I'm trying to spread awareness of issues I have in this game and all I see is dumb moronic "that's how it is like that exactly like riot wanted no need to change anything they know what they are doing blablabla", like why even bother with comments if all you do is just defend, if you already know that Riot isn't going to listen? Are you here to persuade them not to listen? You honestly think they're going to read here somewhere in comment 20 of this topic and think "ah Cypherous really made a great point there, I guess we'll just inform the dev team to keep doing what they're doing and don't listen the feedback"... like what the %%%%...
Cypherous (EUW)
: > Umm how about just: > add option to PAY for upgrading unit from level 1 to level 2? Defeats the point of it being random, at that point everyone just gets a free 3 start tier 5 unit because there is nothing preventing them from getting the upgrade and it just becomes a case of spamming levels and then spamming reroll until you get a tier 5 unit, so yeah, not a solution > force unit to upgrade from level 1 to level 2 if it has remained untouched (3 x their cost) turns? Again, removes the point of it being a random mode > add summoners into the game and a new summoner that allows to upgrade unit with the expense of not being able to ignite/flash/whatever for 5 turns. Yeah they aren't going to add summoners At this point you're playing a random mode but wanting it to not be random, so in this case its probably not the mode for you > I can write thousand suggestions to fix RNG in a single day, why would it be so hard for Riot? Anyone can write 1000 bad ideas > What is this "Riot is the best on game making but they can't fix randomness" BS? Nobody said that, but you're somehow expecting random to not be random :P > Are you saying Riot is more incompetent than Valve, who had no problems fixing the RNG in DotA? Now it's near impossible to get lets say 5 stuns in row with Faceless Void or dodge 10 hits in row with Butterfly. Adding bad luck protection isn't a solution so something that involves 8 people rolling over the same things, in a 1v1 scenario or in something where there are infinite numbers of things to get then sure, but in this case its not going to work from a purely statistical point of view > So stop saying they can't do it, they WONT, probably because people like you who are willing accept the fact skill is being dulled out of their game. And where exactly is skill being dulled out of it? at this point you're actually talking complete BS :P
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=yTagKVTg,discussion-id=VKNLcNhy,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-17T15:49:42.536+0000) > At this point you're playing a random mode but wanting it to not be random, so in this case its probably not the mode for you > > Anyone can write 1000 bad ideas > > Nobody said that, but you're somehow expecting random to not be random :P > Adding bad luck protection isn't a solution so something that involves 8 people rolling over the same things, in a 1v1 scenario or in something where there are infinite numbers of things to get then sure, but in this case its not going to work from a purely statistical point of view > > And where exactly is skill being dulled out of it? at this point you're actually talking complete BS :P I never expected random not to be random. I expected there to be implemented tools to reduce randomness. Like I already explained with the case of reducing impact of randomness by adding tools that players control. You know in poker they reduce random a little bit by allowing you to actually hold cards in the first round? Imagine if I were to ask Poker makers to implement tools to actually impact the gameplay. I find it interesting one can write perfect English and yet being unable to comprehend how adding RNG into a game makes it less skill based. Try imagine transforming icehockey into poker. Or Poker into slot machine. Taking away choice is the same as refusing to implement choices. And video games are all about making choices, basically in the current iteration TFT is just a massive slot machine for dummies.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > You do realise that Riot is the one creating the game? It's not like they prayed to Allmighty Game God and it handed them perfect game. Sure, but its random, they can't rig it in your favour otherwise that defeats the purpose of the game, its either random or it isn't, there is no middle option > Rest of the responses were the typical fanboygasm. AKA you have nothing to counter them because they are true, i appreciate lots of people throw around the term "fanboy" when they have no valid arguments, so i'm not surprised :P
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=yTagKVTg,discussion-id=VKNLcNhy,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-12T22:25:55.582+0000) > > Sure, but its random, they can't rig it in your favour otherwise that defeats the purpose of the game, its either random or it isn't, there is no middle option Umm how about just: add option to PAY for upgrading unit from level 1 to level 2? or force unit to upgrade from level 1 to level 2 if it has remained untouched (3 x their cost) turns? or add summoners into the game and a new summoner that allows to upgrade unit with the expense of not being able to ignite/flash/whatever for 5 turns. I can write thousand suggestions to fix RNG in a single day, why would it be so hard for Riot? What is this "Riot is the best on game making but they can't fix randomness" BS? Are you saying Riot is more incompetent than Valve, who had no problems fixing the RNG in DotA? Now it's near impossible to get lets say 5 stuns in row with Faceless Void or dodge 10 hits in row with Butterfly. Or Blizzard being complete morons by adding this hero skill mechanic that allows to negate some bad luck of bad RNG, when compared to traditional card games? How about when Riot replaced the gold dragon with these different buffs generated by RNG? They could have "fixed" the issue simply by not changing anything before dragon update. So stop saying they can't do it, they WONT, probably because people like you who are willing accept the fact skill is being dulled out of their game.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > The fact you're facing simultaneously 7 other people makes this game very frustrating mess to keep track of things happening in game. 3 others might be doable but 7 no way. Not really having any issues myself, what are you trying to keep track of exactly > Winning grants you 1 gold but losing doesn't give you anything. Wasn't so bad if it was at least possible to kick in with the losing streak 1 loss earlier, it's already bad enough to lose like 10 hitpoints on round 5 against level 2 elise tank Why would losing grant you something? You don't get a gold medal for coming last in a race > (minor complaint) No possibility to take break, at least in League you can easily take 1 minute break in end game, but here you're constantly tuned into the screen from start to finish. And speaking of the start... You're not really supposed to be taking breaks on SR > (minor complaint) Why does game start so fast? I mean in League of Legends you got potentially like 2 minutes to join into the game after everyone has loaded the game, in here game just starts and I've got like 10-15% of games where I switch back to the screen while doing something I'm missing the first round Because there is no setup required, standing around for 90 seconds doing nothing is just a waste when you can just start the match, you not paying attention is a personal problem > Also why does first 2 rounds have to be so damn boring? Just start the game off with 5 gold and give everyone random item. Or better yet, have 2 roulette wheels in row for 2 items and 2 units.0 Probably to deal with people like you who don't pay attention, your default guy can easily kill the first wave of minions alone to give you time to pay attention :P > It would be freaking great if there was some way to actually SEE what the odds of getting a certain units are... is this too hard to encore to the game? Like lets say I'm considering picking Garen but already 3 enemies have bought it, I might want to know that without swapping every 7 enemies every single round. Not likely to happen, scouting others is part of the tactics portion of the name, if it straight up told you that you weren't likely to get a champ you would just follow that all the time and the game becomes a braindead rollfest > If you get couple level 2 units before turn 5 you're like 90% likely to win the game or at least get 2nd spot, the early game is extremely reliant on luck and grants you like 66% chance to get to the 1-3 spots, on the same time.... I mean, i've won early rounds without any 2 stars if you buy smart and stack useful synergies like knight and brawler or use something like blitz to burn their carry, tactics :P > If by 10th turn you still haven't had a single level 2 unit, you're first to drop dead, even if you started rerolling after realizing your bad luck. Well thats the luck of the draw, i mean there isn't anything riot can do about that > Games take too long for the value they give, very rarely you get entertaining win and most of the time it's just random luck if you get good outcome, I'd halve the health bars and start the game faster with more gold and units like I said before. I mean 30 minutes isn't that bad to be honest, i mean matches used to go faster but then people had no chance to actually try to make a comeback, so either you end up with fast unwinnable games or slower ones where you can still pull it back, i think most people prefer the latter > Not every game has to start like a freaking tutorial... Seriously was this game made for people with amnesia? Just make a separate tutorial and slow start mode for new people and let people with over 20 games play the first round more aggressively. Again its there to make sure people are paying attention and to make sure theydon't miss too much by taking a piss during loading etc > Crafting is very odd.... most of the items with Armor or Magic Resist are quite useless, unless you plan building some insane tank, but most of the time doesn't matter because Assassins and long range and aoe spells. Much like not every item in LoL is useful and some are situational, you're not going to stack MR against people playing AD etc > Reducing player count to 4 Why though, i'm not seeing an issue with 8, 4 people would be too boring and small and be over too fast for there to be any real point playing > Reducing max health to 50 So i'm sensing your main issue is impatience, we can't fix that for you :P > Reducing the power gap between unit levels 1 to 3 by making level 1 and level 2 difference 50% and last step 25%, also increase the odds of getting high tier units They don't want high tier units everywhere though > Increase normal gold gain to 5 from very start of the game Why though? gold income seems fine to me as is > Make UI better inform you about the odds and who is getting what And while you're at it why not have the game auto pick the best champs for you and to make sure you're always counterpicking while you're at it, yeah that isn't going to happen, riot wants you to engage your head meat :P > Grant extra gold only when combining units, even if you would sell them later. This would make it harder to stack on minions to upgrade and gaining extra gold at the same time. Why would the game grant you more gold for spending more gold? > I generally like what the items do and I don't think they're too strong. I actually wish the combat was more active like you could use summoner on a single unit to either avoid damage or give damage. Yeah i don't really see summoner spells being a thing here
"i mean there isn't anything riot can do about that" You do realise that Riot is the one creating the game? It's not like they prayed to Allmighty Game God and it handed them perfect game. Rest of the responses were the typical fanboygasm.
Surma (EUNE)
: Team fight tactics suffers from major issues (update)
Lets not forget the fun fact there's no balance on entire game. I tried to build Tristana with double Seraph Embrace and tried to spam his bomb, but it deals so bad damage it might as well not exist. Like Tristana is severely bad. I can do same with Lucian and he can spam his passive with lifesteal and be basically immortal, except the fact he got sniped by Phantom to 100hp and he rushed into enemy range to get killed. I tried build Phantom team and it always sucked. Like 75% of units are unusable. But hey GLACIAL CAN PERMASTUN AND ITS ALL GREAT! Like you devs even testing this game?
Rioter Comments
Surma (EUNE)
: Team fight tactics suffers from major issues
I was last 3rd guy alive and I've been rolling and rolling for attempt to get Yasuo (as my 6th blademaster) and I never got it, lost game cause of it. Next game I keep rolling and expecting Gangplank only to lose game against one player who has him level 2. Why can't I just see that there's 0% chance to get it? Do I have to keep guessing because game lacks efficient tools to give me the basic information to actually play without just throwing a dice like a f---ing moron.
Rioter Comments
: > So you didn't see a conflict between targeting casual audience and marketing game as competitive? There isn’t one. Every game is competitive, if there’s a winner and a looser it’s competitive. That doesn’t conflict with being casual HotS focused on lowering the learning curve that mobas have to target a different audience to the other mobas, which is a smart business idea, and this doesn’t conflict with it being competitive as all mobas are competitive. It failed cause blizzard had too much on their plate trying to support 4 other AAA games as well as a card game... HotS just fell to the wayside cause blizzard couldn’t take it where it needed to be. > If you've played the game more than 20 games, a new game isn't going to give any more new content. It's going to be the exact same RNG fest. Except it won’t, we know autochess doesn’t become like this as there’s already a ton on the market > Trying to just put pure massive randomness on a game of a company that makes --- or at least used to--- make competitive game is just sheer lunacy. Just because a company has made a competitive game doesn’t force them into only making competitive games... this doesn’t have to be a high stakes esports something low energy and relaxing appeals to this audience. > Like the main point of doing ANY business is KNOW YOUR CUSTOMERS, that's why Apple initially succeeded in marketing, they marketed the products as breaking the old hierarchy and being revolutionary, polished the tech and had big sexy screens to show for. DotA auto chess came from a moba and a lot of their player base plays it, not only that there’s a large amount of league’s player base playing it as well... like I said you’d be surprised how many players play autochess or trading card games while they are idle... great for loading screens. ___ The rest of your comment is just more of the same so I won’t respond to each one. Basically what I’m guessing is you’ve got no idea what competitive means, you don’t understand the league player base, and if you where in charge of league it’d be dead already... you speak of business models but show no business sense at all.
"Every game is competitive" "if there’s a winner and a looser it’s competitive." If every game is competitive, might as well stop using the word altogether. Yes there is strict definition of being competitive that goes something like: "wanting very much to win" when it relates to people, but I guess when normal player talks online about some game being more competitive than others, they actually mean that the game itself has more MECHANISMS to allow for skilled people to exceed other players. In this way saying stuff like Rock Paper Scissors is a competitive game means as much as saying that plate is a mode of transportation. "Basically what I’m guessing is you’ve got no idea what competitive means" Yes you clearly seem to have it. And no, HotS didn't die off because Blizzard just didn't update it enough. DotA did have very slow updates for plenty of years, and Valve had other projects to work with... and the playerbase didn't leave to the level of HotS. Nothing else explains it but poor business model, poor decision making as whole. They had plenty of good programmers out there and very fluid game with barely any glitches in my 10 000+ games I played and nice updated interface especially since 2.0 patch. I was the one warning day 1 about Blizzard doing wrong step, I was begging them to implementing tools to help with Quick Match, something to the level of Summoners in LoL. That begging never went anywhere. A lot of people complained about wrongly being kicked out of game and silenced because of the report system got abused. I got banned just from saying the F--- word once in a game. I also had plenty of re-design posts for my favorite heroes like Kael'thas, they never went anywhere either. I told that the game lacks the SOUL from the Blizzard franchise, everyone kept saying no no no, this is the way Blizzard does it. If they wouldn't know how to make games, they wouldn't be there. A dude on forum can never be right against the heads of Blizzard. And ever since those days they made so many more bad decisions like the reveal of Diablo Immortal that completely blew off their stock price. People to this very day are saying they're not listening to their target audience, they say to the customers "you think you want it, but you don't" and refuse to see why their new expansions aren't selling, why things are just generally considered average at best. - I'm not claiming to be some sort of genius, but when I see a problem in business model, and overall feel of the game, I %%%%ing complain, then I get people like you to stonewall the fix to the game. Just keep bringing more casual people to Riot audience, it'll turn just fine. Keep ignoring the ACTUAL fateful fanbase that played the game since open beta. Every time a big company starts to change for the sake of change, they often fail. Google and Facebook are pretty much in the path of failure ever since they removed the approval process for accounts. Why did they do it? Because actually verifying accounts and keeping content on some level of quality, yeah that's terrible for business, you could make so much money just allowing people to post absolute crap. "Oh wait advertisers are leaving because conspiracy theorists are spawning everywhere. Oh wait come back, I didn't mean to promote Nazi propaganda. Oh wait what is this shooting video doing in kid-section. Why is there porn in YouTube? No, advertisers, please wait. I promise to change, I promise..." And people had been shouting that YouTube has been garbage for 10 years soon, when fringe starts hitting the mainstream you know your company is doomed. This is just lonely cracking voice in the void, sure you can ignore me. You can ignore 100 or even 1000, but sooner or later you as provider of service have to realize who the %%%% you're serving. We aren't serving you, you are serving US, the players.
tomo3003 (EUW)
: > Like there's 10+ ways I could make the game experience immediately more enjoyable for everyone and increase the skill aspect of the game I mean if you're such a Chad why don't you make your own game and show Riot how it's done, steal all their money, that will teach them a lesson. > I mean game developers are such freaking cowards. There's like 1000+ ways to innovate on the genre See point 1. > I'm so freaking disgusted of being a part of this... community? You could always disappear to My Little Pony or something, I'm sure you'll fit right in and I don't think you will be missed here.
"I mean if you're such a Chad why don't you make your own game and show Riot how it's done, steal all their money, that will teach them a lesson." Maybe I will, and when I do, well you're not going to know me anyway, I was just casual guy on LoL forums, you can't ever make the connection. Also this question is %%%%ing stupid. If I don't like certain type of manufacturer because they made a fault in the car, I should start my own company? If bank made my money disappear and I make a complaint, I should just make my own bank? This speaks more about you than it does about me. A desperate fanboy who can excuse any sort of wrongdoing by saying it's the customers fault. Are you perhaps Apple user? "No, you're holding the phone wrong"- type of guy? "You could always disappear to My Little Pony or something" The irony is strong on this one.
: Saving up really isn't always the best strategy It's easier to 3 star your units while pre lvl 6, so stayin at around 20 gold or so is what I've found to be best, you get to roll a bunch and still get a nice unit lead with a few 3 stars early letting you stay at a healthy > 70 hp until the later rounds It's also important to know how to transition from an early build to something more suited to what units and items you're finding The best moment to stack gold is when you're trying to level up to get more units on the board and flush out your teamcomp once it seems unlikely you'll get any more 3 stars And it's best to play for items, trying to get items that fit well with the comp you have, while staying open minded as you might not get the mots optimal items It's also in your best interest to check what everyone else is building by spaming 1 so that you don't build the same things they do as that's just gonna make it harder for you to get the units you need Anyway that's just how I play the game and I consistently get first or second place, so feel free to think it's just RNG and i'm just on a luck streak, or maybe there really is some things that you can do to win more games But to me what really let's someone win more on TFT is to know the champs, the items, the origins etc and to **adapt** a lot to the situation you're in, changing your comp, changing positioning, selling champs and moving items around when the need arises etc
"I consistently get first or second place" Doesn't happen. Maybe that's just how you feel on a good day but you must have given up a ton of times. Or maybe you just started and are still like level 1-3 where all the newbs are, you get level 5 your account and soon you're getting hammered with level 3 units at level 7-8 all the time, it's starting to get really unfun at that point. I'm just curious how many games have you played so far? "the items ---- adapt a lot to the situation you're in" You can't adapt with items when you already got those. You're having to adapt into whatever you get given. Lets say you've chosen 2 armors twice in row, now you're pretty much left out any rational Assassin combo because they would get shut down with their low health pools. So you'll eventuially end up with a very mixed bag of items and units which both try compensate eachother, end is some kind of hybrid, almost always, or "you're just building up to 1 single enemy" by going full evasion or something. Just realize it's just a coinflip of a game that is extended over 30 minutes of watching minions beat eachother and 5 minutes of actual decision making.
: And yet auto chess has been taking off, DotA autochess has been a big success and this simply capitalises off it. And don’t worry about RNG killing the game off... if trading card games have been as successful as they have despite relying completely on luck then autochess won’t have any issue. And HotS failed cause of blizzard, had nothing to do with the premise.
"And HotS failed cause of blizzard, had nothing to do with the premise." So you didn't see a conflict between targeting casual audience and marketing game as competitive? They kept up the illusion for years until people wisened up, they basically only played for the free loot of skins, not for the game itself. When they never actually fixed the overwhelming competitive issues, the game was just declared dead. If this game doesn't see some form of re-branding and re-thinking the competitive aspect, it's going to meet exact same fate. If you've played the game more than 20 games, a new game isn't going to give any more new content. It's going to be the exact same RNG fest. Trying to just put pure massive randomness on a game of a company that makes --- or at least used to--- make competitive game is just sheer lunacy. Like the main point of doing ANY business is KNOW YOUR CUSTOMERS, that's why Apple initially succeeded in marketing, they marketed the products as breaking the old hierarchy and being revolutionary, polished the tech and had big sexy screens to show for. Riot is going backwards every possible way, every single season is just worse than earlier. Newer champions are just more broken. And all they do is focus on stupid meme videos and giving money for streamers to play their game so others might spend money on their game by attempting to be like them, and the viewership has still sunk despite all their effort to maintain audience by questionable efforts. They're just delaying their inevitable death by dropping into obscurity. They could have made a legacy of hardcore fanbase, a game to be recognized and slowly grow over tens of years, instead Tencent just decided to throw it all out for a quick buck or appealing to casual morons who see big titted 9 tail fox in a music video, they even promoted a stupid Elders React video on it. I mean how dishonest you have to be to your customers... and to your self. Know your %%%%ing customer Riot, know what made you great! Embrace the past, not escape it. If Riot was a man he would be some successful buslness leader going slowly insane and paying off other people to promote their inferior product to others as some form of great success story, and seek to cover up themselves in news to stay relevant. It's all just a big bluff.
: I love TFT. And even if, it dies in a month, that is one month that i escaped coinflip botlanes. If TFT has allowed me to not worry about my teammates poor performance for one month, then TFT in my opinion would be a massive success.
"If TFT has allowed me to not worry about my teammates poor performance for one month, then TFT in my opinion would be a massive success." You know you could just play some other game than what Riot makes?
Tarolock (EUNE)
: so what really is your point? if you dont like the game dont play it, but let the rest enjoy it
There's a way to make game more interesting by applying some actual skill, to make the game more competitive and not just casual slot machine. There's a way to make game more casual by for example hiding the ability to see opponent boards. This current game is just weird mix of both that make little to no sense. And you guys don't think Battle Royale is dying genre when it gets surpassed in viewership by some brand new game some sweatshop made in less than a month? A popular free game doesn't equal the game is great in any shape or form, only the eyes of blind consumer it might be. It's like saying Wolkswagen is more appealing to consumers than Bugatti because there are more Wolkswagens out there. Just because you can't afford a real game like... I don't know Dark Souls 3 or Devil May Cry 5, Mortal Kombat 11, even some indie games on Steam... you choose to play this free game because hey it's popular, not because the gameplay is appealing to you? I mean the major driving force on even League of Legends success was social aspect, playing with your friends, climbing ladder and being respected. Now it's all taken down by shitty decisions and everyone has had their friends leave the game. Sure there's some new jackasses who enter the game because their friend recommended it, thinking they know everything about gaming as a whole, when they've played less games in their live as they've had fingers in their hands. - Like why is this 8-9 enemies the best number they came up with? Why not 4? That's twice more wins than losses. And you can play with 2-3 of your friends on same time. Rarely would anyone ever get 7-8 friends to do anything together. Why not just reduce the chances and make it all the way to 100 people, like Battle Royale? At least AutoChess in DotA had the excuse of having to limit the players either to 8-10 because game doesn't let more than 10 players into any given game. I'm just left confused about the whole decision to copy and MIMIC EVERY SINGLE POINT of the DotA autochess without changing absolutely anything. What did innovation suddenly become toxic word for Riot? - I guess copying others is what Chinese companies are known for. They don't have any intellectual capacity to form new ideas, they just abuse the existing ones with their loop holes and manipulate their currency while allowing foreign companies to abuse cheap labor just so they can steal some tech.
: > At least in Poker you kinda understand what the odds of getting something like a straight flush are and are most likely to just hold onto your 2 pairs and just bluff and keep all your cards. Just because you don't understand Auto Chess this doesn't mean it's hard to understand. All the required numbers are available. > only to realize they end up winning the game against those heavy armored opponents on the #1 spot you're building against. Yeah, well, it's not exactly smart to build against ONE opponent when you play against 7. Maybe you SHOULD lose if you do that. > In this game you have NO WAY of seeing who exactly is the biggest threat to you Not exactly, no, but you can make estimates based on what you see and numbers. Whoever does that and adapts best to the situation has the highest chance to win (or at least stay in the game long). Pretty much exactly like Poker. > Game is too fast to be actually super insane competitive Don't mix up "competitive" with "Streamed tournaments". Auto Chess is indeed very hard to show in a tournament stream...that doesn't make it less competitive. > I mean you don't see Twitch streamers playing-- or to that matter seeing huge audiences of playing poker, why should this game be any different? Actually you do. Prices pools in Poker tournaments are even bigger than in Esport. And they are even broadcasted on TV, which is still rare for Esport. So no, RNG doesn't really stop games from being extremely popular. > He can't seriously make statements like "this game makes player skill shine", can he? Just because you don't understand the game this doesn't mean there is no skill involved. It actually shows nicely that skill is indeed involved. It's just not focused on mechanics like League (partly) is, but instead on knowledge, creative thinking, problem solving, flexibility and understanding of statistics/probabilities. > First this freakin Battleroyale casual garbage and now this? What's next, we're going to have Candy Crush-clone tournaments on Twich? Compare what you wrote here with your headline. Candy Crush, Battle Royale and Auto Chess are all EXTREMELY popular. Yet your headline says it's going to be dead soon, which didn't happen to ANY of those extremely popular games/genres. Long story short and your entire post in a nutshell: You confuse your own personal preferences with general facts. YOU don't like this genre, YOU don't understand it, YOU think it's too quick and random. That doesn't mean it is.
"you don't understand Auto Chess" Baseless claim. You don't even know me man. It's like someone talking to phone manufacturer about weak signal and the guy would be like "well you just suck at holding the phone", immediately, without any evidence judging the worse of the critic, meanwhile the actual "critics" who review games can't even pass first level of Cuphead. I probably have more credibility behind anonymity than you could give off to some BS streamer like Donkey who was silver like 90% of his league career, but because he has a voice you might recognize he might seem more credible to you... why is that? Do you look people who talk towards you as some form of authority figures? Weak ego with bad father relations? Dude spending time on internet is the wrong way to solve your real life problems. "Yeah, well, it's not exactly smart to build against ONE opponent" I never said I was, but EVERY SINGLE UNIT COMBO is strong it's own way, and thus either you end in rock paper scissors scenario (which I guess this game attempts to do), or you end up in situation where some unit composition is just most powerful / easiest to build up stronger. And I was just enemy 2 health away from winning on pure evasion team so don't say that building against one opponent doesn't really work. You can't really decide what enemy is building before mid game, and during mid game you must already have some units to work with... or maybe you just do fresh start from there and build on... I don't know, some form of overpowering combo goal... only to realize in 10 rounds left (until either you or last opponents die) that the combo that you build up didn't get enough strong high tier units. It's a joke and people like you are the prime carriers of it. You don't see the rediculousness of trying to counter 8 other players? "Not exactly, no, but you can make estimates based on what you see and numbers." Again, this is coming the supposed expert who tells me I don't know what I'm talking about. No, you can't make even estimates on anything, until heavy late into the game, to actually see what combos work. In mid game there is high likelyhood of any combo that enemy might match with maybe 1-2 starter units, so yeah they might go full casters with 2 druids or they might just take 2 druids with tank team... Majority of the units never reach level 3 anyway, and getting any unit to level 2 could be as easy as making A SINGLE LUCKY ROLL, so no. I don't see skill playing ANY PART of this game, outside of knowing the "meta" of what is strongest. "Don't mix up "competitive" with "Streamed tournaments"" I'm not. I didn't even bring out tournaments. I was talking as in general the only "skill" you could actually use in this game (outside of knowing the candy crush level of putting 3 units together does something) is in actually monitoring other players and their units. But this game doesn't exactly have tools for such plays. No casual person is going to swoop by the 8 other boards and their pick areas just to see if they can build up some unit or go against the board some way. It's just too much details, and given you got like maybe 10 seconds between each rounds when you're supposed to spend time thinking your next moves... you simply just got too much junk thrown at you in too short time. It's like trying to play the actual chess game with just 3 seconds of thinking, it's just not enough for casual player to even start predicting 1 move ahead. Like I said it's too casual and too completitive at same time, doesn't work and proof is Heroes of the Storm, which tried to be casual competitive game. "Just because you don't understand the game this doesn't mean there is no skill involved." Again, baseless claim after another. I do understand the game just fine. I finished the game many times (far more than just 11-2% of time which is more than 1/9th) by winning. I was looking up nice combos and I did win. But it's just like Battle Royale games, I do understand them just fine. I've won several games in CSGO Battle Royal Danger Zone game mode when it came up. I got good aim and I also know a bit of strategy to not just wildly run in middle aimlessly. But I do realize that those type of games rely on far too much luck to be competitive. You can dress the game with premade teams, but then it's basically just CS:GO but without a shop in start of the round and all items are random, which again makes some side having a benecial advantage in a fight that may or may not end up in their advantage, but on a long run luck actually does matter widely on who gets to be a winning team. Even in CSGO you could see pro players missing 5 rounds of bullets just for enemy to turn on them and instantly headshot. It's just rediculous people like you keep complaining about people like me who hate luck in video games and just say things like "uuhhh you don't get it" I do get it, for the 4th time, I do get it. But I don't see the large appeal outside of the hype for this type of game genre. There used to be animated chess games 20 years ago, did any of them become successful? Nope. Because people hate strategy games overall. And now you're mixing a "strategy game" with actual complexity and far too much skill required for average player to know what the %%%% is actually happening in order to maximize their odds of winning, combine that with 8 other random players so your odds of winning are already low, then combine that with 95% luck in casual games with 5% of players actually winning by being a mouthbreathing moooron but still managing to throw stuff like level 3 Enigma with Refresher by having no gold throughout the game. I know why it initially feels like a fresh new game, and of course it's free. But if you actually had to PAY for this game, even just 5 dollars nobody would pay a dime. But don't worry, Riot will find those whales that spend 2000 dollars on a freakin mobile game because they felt sad one weekend to pay up the fact you refuse to pay for actual content. I'm not saying it's going to die off COMPLETELY, but the numbers will drop very much after initial hype and only people would be left are streamers attempting to milk Twitch money and their blind fanbase and maybe couple of players who actually enjoy the mechanics to the core so much they would pay full price of triple-A level of game like Sekiro. - What could be done to increase the level of fun in game? How about add a freaking SUMMONER SPELLS for example? Allow unit to be ignited of flash away from a situation. Let units have 2 spells instead of just 1 and maybe drop the amount of maximum units to 5, make the combo mechanic easier to accomplish by adding couple extra slots per roll. Reduce the power creep of level 3 units and/or reduce the cost of roll by 1. Remove boring need of 50 gold and give every player 10 gold per round... There's SOOO MUCH things to improve on this game "genre" than just blindly copying a failing attempt of success because it manages to be hot topic on twitch a month or two. ____ to your last point... "YOU don't like this genre, YOU don't understand it, YOU think it's too quick and random. That doesn't mean it is." No I do like the idea of the genre. It's just very poorly implemented idea. Or if the genre is based on the "auto", yeah maybe I don't %%%%ing like it, because it basically takes the player out of equation and turns the game into a freakin slot machine. You said the game isn't based on luck, that it isn't too random, but then at same breath are agreeing it's following the blueprints of Candy Crush and Battle Royales... so are you even aware what your opinion of the game is? I think you're just for some odd reason (perhaps it's because you're Riot fan?) on the opposite side of this debate even when you agree on very same things I just agreed to. It's just confusing for you to not seek any common ground. Yeah I guess it's just a blind fanboy post.
Surma (EUNE)
: Auto Chess is going to be dead in 1 month
Overall the whole economic aspect of saving and investing is just stupid. Anyone who's attempted to play this game more than 5 games knows you have to save up to 50 gold (or just make 1 or 2 level ups before that), where the rest of the game outside of maybe having 20-30 health you're just going to keep saving that gold and putting money into the levels. Why do I have to spend 75% of the gametime on a freakin gold management? Like there's 10+ ways I could make the game experience immediately more enjoyable for everyone and increase the skill aspect of the game... but because then it wouldn't be called "auto chess" if you actually had control over your units or at least some way to interact with the board. I mean game developers are such freaking cowards. There's like 1000+ ways to innovate on the genre and what does Riot choose to do? Absolutely nothing. Bring out the exact same shit others have come up with and add some cute'sy graphics and call it a day. I'm so freaking disgusted of being a part of this... community? More like screaming %%%%%%s who can't put 1+1 together and immediately jump into new bandwagon that doesn't actually require them to, only to immediately claim huge skill ceiling. Even this game, even in it's hardest days, didn't require a lot of skill. It required SOME skill, and rest of the skill came from being on the same level with your opponent. Again Riot could have made the game harder and thus more competitive, pushed the boundaries of what is to be called MOBA, and what has it done? Went into the same direction as Blizzard with their failed attempt of MOBA. - Am I the only sane person here?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Surma (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T13:01:03.843+0000) > > Oh, Season 8 was a weird one, no one's saying it wasn't. > Also, 'change is good' is something that has been said innumerable before Kha ever existed. And what was before season 8? How many 1 tricks we had in challenger? Now it's like DongHuaP releases a new video on someone getting to rank 1 and all they're doing is maining Irelia, or maining Tryndamere, Or maining Aurelion Sol, Or maining Garen. Every single new challenger is pretty much 1 trick, where those pros who play on tournaments now end up in diamond tier. Not because they're unable to adapt, but because the game itself is now so stale, that people can play the exact same strategy over and over again get to high rank. There's no longer need to apart to a certain playstyles, to a certain counter picks. All you do now is just pick your main and carry. Faker for example was known for his Zed plays but he actually very rarely played Zed in past seasons, because it generally sucked against most setups with a shield or hard CC like Malzahar. The dude was able to adapt to a new counters and his strongest champions being banned and still come out top. Now it's like you need to ban the top champions on enemy team by using 3rd party tool to find out their mains, and then hope to god they don't have good enough skill to play with their second best.
All I'm saying is that when Riot Games makes video stating "we want people to pick a champion and get good with it" what they really are saying "Don't you guys have phones"? They are not meeting the expectations, they are REDEFINING THE EXPECTATIONS. They know this new season promotes one tricks, so they make videos about promoting playing 1 tricks. Or maybe they just really want to promote this extremely stale changing meta with certain champions and 1 tricks getting up there in challenger ranks, meanwhile rest of the tournament pros struggle in diamond 1 solo. Maybe that's what they really wanted, that the old pros get replaced by bunch of nobodies because they completely reworked the meta and the ranked ladder. ************** And to top this all off, the co-operation level of teammates has sunk so low they start trash talking with just 1 %%%%ing death. And I don't mean like "of course Nasus f---ing survives with 1% hp", I'm talking like "you f---ing moron, didn't gank, died all the time", when they themselves never reacted to a single f----ing queue, died solo all the time and blamed others. And the newer changes even further just support the idea that you shouldn't f---ing roam in this game, at all. Roaming results you losing so much experience that you will likely lose the lane if you leave, and with all defensive runes out there and reduced gold, ganks don't even give you anything worth the time it takes to travel to the lane, unless it's Pantheon mid or something.
: > [{quoted}](name=Surma,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T12:51:09.133+0000) > > Well I'd take a word of a man rather than fictional character in a video game. > > Also you can look Scarra or any other popular YouTube/Twitch streamer and see their same opinions about season 8, it really sucked balls and broke the game for almost if not entirely the whole season. > > To anyone who still lives on denial about season 8 you'd have to be playing the game probably less than once a month. Oh, Season 8 was a weird one, no one's saying it wasn't. Also, 'change is good' is something that has been said innumerable before Kha ever existed.
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T13:01:03.843+0000) > > Oh, Season 8 was a weird one, no one's saying it wasn't. > Also, 'change is good' is something that has been said innumerable before Kha ever existed. And what was before season 8? How many 1 tricks we had in challenger? Now it's like DongHuaP releases a new video on someone getting to rank 1 and all they're doing is maining Irelia, or maining Tryndamere, Or maining Aurelion Sol, Or maining Garen. Every single new challenger is pretty much 1 trick, where those pros who play on tournaments now end up in diamond tier. Not because they're unable to adapt, but because the game itself is now so stale, that people can play the exact same strategy over and over again get to high rank. There's no longer need to apart to a certain playstyles, to a certain counter picks. All you do now is just pick your main and carry. Faker for example was known for his Zed plays but he actually very rarely played Zed in past seasons, because it generally sucked against most setups with a shield or hard CC like Malzahar. The dude was able to adapt to a new counters and his strongest champions being banned and still come out top. Now it's like you need to ban the top champions on enemy team by using 3rd party tool to find out their mains, and then hope to god they don't have good enough skill to play with their second best.
: > [{quoted}](name=Surma,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T12:28:22.058+0000) > > And you know what Tyler1 said to that? "%%%% no it's not, and %%%% Kha'zix." > https://youtu.be/bFH3GoLRGQA?t=295 Because Tyler1 is fountain of ultimate knowledge...
> [{quoted}](name=The7thSeal,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T12:47:01.941+0000) > > Because Tyler1 is fountain of ultimate knowledge... Well I'd take a word of a man rather than fictional character in a video game. Also you can look Scarra or any other popular YouTube/Twitch streamer and see their same opinions about season 8, it really sucked balls and broke the game for almost if not entirely the whole season. To anyone who still lives on denial about season 8 you'd have to be playing the game probably less than once a month.
Shamose (EUW)
: [Like a wise void creature once said.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/57/Khazix_Select.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119065219)
> [{quoted}](name=Shamose,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-31T11:14:27.741+0000) > > [Like a wise void creature once said.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/57/Khazix_Select.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20121119065219) And you know what Tyler1 said to that? "%%%% no it's not, and %%%% Kha'zix." https://youtu.be/bFH3GoLRGQA?t=295
Murdarici (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Surma,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-31T11:40:10.755+0000) > > "League is most successful game ever" > Based on what? > > Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 sold alone 30 million, that's 30 million times 60 dollars per copy (minus whatever 30% goes to cost of shipping and shop sales). > > League of Legends has like 50 million REGISTERED PLAYERS, in a free to play game, with maybe 10% being those who actually bother to pay for in-game goods. > > So you got actually something of 5 million people who pay to play, and whenever Riot %%%%s up the playerbase, they lose long time customer. > > ************** > > Those people who actually join the game, how many of them bother to start gringing the 200 champion pool? How many just give up with the frustration of having to learn all the champion capabilities. > > I have a friend / relative who I play occasionally and he doesn't understand anything happening in game because he's not been in the game from when it started. MOBAs do not tend to attract new population after hero pool has extended long enough and the learning curve is too big, that's why DotA has like 600 000 monthly players anymore, they just don't create any new tools for people to get interested on heroes. All the arcade modes are pretty much trash apart from maybe 5 okay-ish modes, and even those run out pretty dry after couple of play throughs. What I meant is one of most played online games, can't know the income of a free game compared to popular games that have a price.
Yeah but just because game is played a lot doesn't necessarily mean it's "successful". I mean it's free after all so maybe it's successful in a sense of attracting people who can't afford to pay for games... but so is game like Candy Crush, and I heard it's making quite good money as well from those single mothers who can't stop using those paint brushes and candy hammers... I don't know I haven't played myself, just heard about these stories. I mean wasn't Flappy Birds like some huge hit back couple years ago? And it's consistent of pressing 1 button on a screen and trying to hit a high score. Just because game got a lot of players doesn't necessarily mean it's good game and making a lot of money and being all successful. It just means it's exposed more than other quality games. Like Bad Piggies or Amazing Alex must be the two of the best games released by Rovio, the company that made Angry Birds, and YET, the best Angry Birds game is the Star Wars Angry Birds, because apparently the casual players perspective who don't pay for the product matters the most. And popularity usually builds up from already existing popularity so you can't really link the fact game is "fresh" into it's success, so this explains why the original Angry Birds never took into same level of success as it's successors. League might have all it's success originate from the Season 1 to Season 3 and lack of real competitors during that period, similarly how Sudoku is the most played puzzle in the real world games doesn't necessarily mean it's the BEST game to play while reading news magazine and having that extra time for some puzzle solving. All it really does mean that it's the most widely accepted form of puzzles that everyone already knows the rules to. And I literally couldn't imagine people staying up to date with Sudoku if it were to update it's rules constantly. All the signs actually point the opposite direction, that the popularity of the game is 100% based on it's startup value, and the popularity it builds upon that grounds, so league of legends being most successful game now doesn't really mean much. World of Warcraft was on it's peak on Wrath of the Lich King, and yet I'd argue that many people wouldn't consider it to be the BEST expansion Blizzard had released. Burning Crusade was in my opinion far better. The heroic dungeons were insanely hard but rewarding. Raids were really hard and interesting. But to say that World of Warcraft was successful because Burning Crusade would be 100% miss statement, it's success relied HEAVILY on World of Warcraft Vanilla, and even it's own success relied on Warcraft 3 and it's characters. So just saying Riot can't be doing anything wrong because they're most played game all time is pretty horrible statement. I'm not sure but I think there used to be a time where Heroes of the Storm was momentarily more popular to stream than League of Legends and people were very interested and Blizzard had a lot of fans installing the game. But the game still failed up despite it's hype and build up popularity. Now they're just putting the game on live supports, and this is what will happen to League of Legends sooner or later, some day it will become irrelevant, and it will not be because some recent bad decision, it's due to the long time of %%%%-up.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > League of Legends has like 50 million REGISTERED PLAYERS Where is this number from?
> [{quoted}](name=Hansiman,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5fQfE9lm,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T11:47:36.084+0000) > > Where is this number from? I just heard from other discussion but might be totally wrong here. I guess according to this it might be 100 million. **redacted** Doesn't really say anything however when there's like 5 smurfs for every 2nd player in the game and many players have left after playing once and some haven't even played a single one I'd bet. So even just limiting that 100 million by expecting half to be bots and smurfs, you'd get 50 million actual players who've registered. Then you take into account how many 30 level accounts there are and you're maybe down to 25 million. Then you take into account how many 30 level accounts who still have played in this current or season 8 and you're down to 15-20. Then there are those who are still playing the game this very season and also play more than 10 times a week, and you're probably down to less than 10 million. There's a reason why these player numbers haven't been reported recently. Every gaming company stops promoting these statistics when they know their game is dying. All the KD/A videos and reaction channel promotions were just setup to try to cater to young teenagers with sex appeal, just screaming of desperation by the Riot to try seek new people in as they clearly can see their older generation is no longer spending money on skins and is leaving, so f--- em.
Murdarici (EUNE)
: ************** Artists that paint or sculpt they sometime don't think at what they doing they just doing what hey feel and keep doing until something emerge, no pre plan or thinking just imaginations and feeling. If you wanted to write a fictional story without making a step back and process the information, good job it's an interesting fiction to read. But I hope you don't believe they are facts and real situation. ************** "_Like what are you doing to your game? You have any clue what you're doing?_" - League is most successful game ever and for 10 years is in top 5 of most played game most of time on first position, some time drop some positions because of new hyped games but when hype disappear League go back on top. So clearly they have no clue what they are doing SHAME ON YOU RIOT! (sarcasm if Sheldon Cooper is reading this) You realize having so successful game for 10 years is already an amazing accomplishment ? and to compete as an 10 years old game with new hyped games, only to be compared with them it's amazing, but the fact the stay in same numbers and most of time on top of them its mind blowing. All the changes they make, in champions, abilities, runes, items is to keep game fresh and in line with modern demands, while some changes are disliked by some players in special some old players, that's beyond the point, the point is that nobody would play this game for years if it was same as 10-6-4 years ago, the changes make people to still play this games because it feel all time fresh and new and the changes make it able to be compared and compete with new released games. ************** When game start you press TAB and see on every champion what rune paths they choose first and second and the keystone, so you can make an educated guess by what type of champions he play what are the other options since there are not hundreds of options. Willing to learn the runes it's not such big of effort since you already need to learn and know 140 champions, what their abilities do, their passives, their ability passives or you will be more surprised in the game then not knowing the runes. ************ Game is dying, you realize that even if RIOT announce that they shut down servers and discotinute the game tomorrow it's still huge success of 10 years game in top of all records ? Players say the game is trash and will be dead soon since season 1, and after a decade is still alive and at the top. ************** I didn't understand what you said about esport, you imply that the audience reaction and cheers at some plays are recorded sounds placed over the transmision as the laugh in comedy movies ? You realize that teams are not just a bunch of people that they decide they like a team in LEC, they are big rich companies with big money behind ? and it's serious business ? The place in LEC was 10 million euro + all the money for infrastructure, gaming house, equipment, mounty player salary, and all the staff salary, you realize how much money are behind a team ? Do you think those companies and the sponsor behind them will invest such money if they predict the League eSport will die soon ? or fans will lose interest ? Its opposite they predict will be here for years to come and will grow more and more. ************ Riot is a company not a nonprofit organizations, as a business and as any business they create a product and sell it to customers, that money then go in infrastructure, equipments, monthly costs for power, heat, office supplies, etc, employe salaries and of course profit for owners/shareholders since that's why you create a business. Riot did not sold League game to customers it give it free, did not made an monthly subscription to play the game you can play it free, and had/has no ads inside client/game. So what they sold to have an income is visual cosmetics (skins), and in time over 10 years (which is a huge time), they made more income ways by seling icons, emotes, missions passes and even real life merchandise. But those departments have nothing to do one with the other, so keep saying by you and other players on board that they keep release skins but not fix x,y problems it's just silly. They sold skins since beginning (so even when you like the game) they still sell skins+others now, creating visuals, since that's the product that they actually sell to make money of not the game itself have nothing to do with champion balance, with client errors, with server stability, with any other problems in the game. Those problems are fixed in parallel by other people then the ones making visuals, also some things are not fixed because they either exist only in some players mind or they are made like that intentionally to create fresh new feeling of the game (like champions rework, buffs/nerfs, new items/removing some old items, etc) ***************
"All the changes they make, in champions, abilities, runes, items is to keep game fresh and in line with modern demands" How is just adding more shit into a game make game fresh? Counter Strike hasn't changed a lot and it's still quite relevant. Fortnite hasn't changed a lot since it's release but it's gained massive popularity due to just general hype. League gained massive following during the beta to season 2 days, without it the game would be played now by just maybe a 1 million players monthly. Was League switching a lot during the seasons 1 to 5? No, the rune pages pretty much stayed the same, and masteries got swapped a little but didn't create any massive shift. I'd argue the games success didn't come from constantly reworking and reimagining basic concepts but the fact that they had the original design philosophy of champions and the graphics and free to play nature was more appealing compared to the competition. DotA2 is more slower paced game and also combat is quite slow outside of late game carries swinging maybe a tiny bit faster than League of Legends carries. Generally the roots of the games success originated from reaction based mechanics and the fact League of Legends got head start from DotA and competitors like Smite and HotS. If HotS and LoL were released the exact same date, I would bet that Heroes of the Storm would be the more played game today and we would be arguing about some changes over recent season on that game "keeping the game fresh" to try meet "modern demands". Quality of game really matters, but so does being there before competitors. Same goes to games like Runescape. If the game was released today, nobody would bother to play it, but now it still has like... 400 000 very active players. So just saying releasing new content to make game fresh makes as much sense as having a Coca Cola releasing new advertisement about sports. It's cool to keep yourself in the picture, but majority are drinking your product because of the taste, not because you show up. And it's not even like making these changes would get people outside of League of Legends community to be informed about games existence, I'd bet even if some game site would be writing news about these games in shadow of advertisement, I'd bet majority of readers wouldn't bother at all. So just keeping game "fresh" for the sake of freshness isn't really "modern demand". ********************** You want to hear real modern demand? Having game with CLARITY. Having a game with no luck factors. Having reduced RNG and putting focus on skill of the players. The reason why people watch League of Legends tournaments is not because some rune rework or because dragon now gets randomized out of 4 varieties. They watch because they want to see individual performance... and even people like Durys ended up with diamond rank at season 8. I really fail to see any reason to defend freshness for the sake of freshness alone.
Murdarici (EUNE)
: ************** Artists that paint or sculpt they sometime don't think at what they doing they just doing what hey feel and keep doing until something emerge, no pre plan or thinking just imaginations and feeling. If you wanted to write a fictional story without making a step back and process the information, good job it's an interesting fiction to read. But I hope you don't believe they are facts and real situation. ************** "_Like what are you doing to your game? You have any clue what you're doing?_" - League is most successful game ever and for 10 years is in top 5 of most played game most of time on first position, some time drop some positions because of new hyped games but when hype disappear League go back on top. So clearly they have no clue what they are doing SHAME ON YOU RIOT! (sarcasm if Sheldon Cooper is reading this) You realize having so successful game for 10 years is already an amazing accomplishment ? and to compete as an 10 years old game with new hyped games, only to be compared with them it's amazing, but the fact the stay in same numbers and most of time on top of them its mind blowing. All the changes they make, in champions, abilities, runes, items is to keep game fresh and in line with modern demands, while some changes are disliked by some players in special some old players, that's beyond the point, the point is that nobody would play this game for years if it was same as 10-6-4 years ago, the changes make people to still play this games because it feel all time fresh and new and the changes make it able to be compared and compete with new released games. ************** When game start you press TAB and see on every champion what rune paths they choose first and second and the keystone, so you can make an educated guess by what type of champions he play what are the other options since there are not hundreds of options. Willing to learn the runes it's not such big of effort since you already need to learn and know 140 champions, what their abilities do, their passives, their ability passives or you will be more surprised in the game then not knowing the runes. ************ Game is dying, you realize that even if RIOT announce that they shut down servers and discotinute the game tomorrow it's still huge success of 10 years game in top of all records ? Players say the game is trash and will be dead soon since season 1, and after a decade is still alive and at the top. ************** I didn't understand what you said about esport, you imply that the audience reaction and cheers at some plays are recorded sounds placed over the transmision as the laugh in comedy movies ? You realize that teams are not just a bunch of people that they decide they like a team in LEC, they are big rich companies with big money behind ? and it's serious business ? The place in LEC was 10 million euro + all the money for infrastructure, gaming house, equipment, mounty player salary, and all the staff salary, you realize how much money are behind a team ? Do you think those companies and the sponsor behind them will invest such money if they predict the League eSport will die soon ? or fans will lose interest ? Its opposite they predict will be here for years to come and will grow more and more. ************ Riot is a company not a nonprofit organizations, as a business and as any business they create a product and sell it to customers, that money then go in infrastructure, equipments, monthly costs for power, heat, office supplies, etc, employe salaries and of course profit for owners/shareholders since that's why you create a business. Riot did not sold League game to customers it give it free, did not made an monthly subscription to play the game you can play it free, and had/has no ads inside client/game. So what they sold to have an income is visual cosmetics (skins), and in time over 10 years (which is a huge time), they made more income ways by seling icons, emotes, missions passes and even real life merchandise. But those departments have nothing to do one with the other, so keep saying by you and other players on board that they keep release skins but not fix x,y problems it's just silly. They sold skins since beginning (so even when you like the game) they still sell skins+others now, creating visuals, since that's the product that they actually sell to make money of not the game itself have nothing to do with champion balance, with client errors, with server stability, with any other problems in the game. Those problems are fixed in parallel by other people then the ones making visuals, also some things are not fixed because they either exist only in some players mind or they are made like that intentionally to create fresh new feeling of the game (like champions rework, buffs/nerfs, new items/removing some old items, etc) ***************
"League is most successful game ever" Based on what? Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 sold alone 30 million, that's 30 million times 60 dollars per copy (minus whatever 30% goes to cost of shipping and shop sales). League of Legends has like 50 million REGISTERED PLAYERS, in a free to play game, with maybe 10% being those who actually bother to pay for in-game goods. So you got actually something of 5 million people who pay to play, and whenever Riot %%%%s up the playerbase, they lose long time customer. ************** Those people who actually join the game, how many of them bother to start gringing the 200 champion pool? How many just give up with the frustration of having to learn all the champion capabilities. I have a friend / relative who I play occasionally and he doesn't understand anything happening in game because he's not been in the game from when it started. MOBAs do not tend to attract new population after hero pool has extended long enough and the learning curve is too big, that's why DotA has like 600 000 monthly players anymore, they just don't create any new tools for people to get interested on heroes. All the arcade modes are pretty much trash apart from maybe 5 okay-ish modes, and even those run out pretty dry after couple of play throughs.
Rioter Comments
Murdarici (EUNE)
: While 60min games were fun, with low damage were you could actually made a strategy and not just Whac-A-Mole game smashing buttons who does it faster, those times are over and never coming back, nto because RIOT but becuase players. New generation of players have no patience, are hyperactive get bored so fast, in 35min games already see so many giving up not participation anymore being bored, put them in 60min games and will be hilarious. Games are shorter because players don't enjoy quality of game anymore don't like to play smart and strategic they just want to quick smash buttons with strong champ: - if they get feed they get cocky spamming "easy" and enjoy a win - if they get outplayed they will fed more and more flaming their team especially jungle - after lose they make a board thread cursing at riot. That's games for new players, just memes, and all they care personal kda then win no matter if its toxic and not fun game just kda and win, and if the have no good kda they troll since they don't really care about win if they are not the "stars" That's why games are shorter with huge damage and everyone one shoot everyone, so hyperactive players go fast in game samch buttons flame and curse then move on to other meme game. ESPORT, players are so bored to watch it that they made them best of one instead of best of 3, these are 20-35 min games, nobody from new generations wil watch a 60 min game with 0 kills until min 25. If they see teamfights like in season 1 where people they hit each other a lot then retreat and nobody die they will RAGE becuase they don't care about our players and skills and beautiful fights they care about kills, so if teams have time to retreat and strategize a fight it's NOT FUN they want like this now when teamfight start everybody explode in 0.5 seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=Murdarici,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=VnKLAXth,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-28T14:49:18.133+0000) > > New generation of players have no patience, are hyperactive get bored so fast, in 35min games already see so many giving up not participation anymore being bored Nah it's more like they are making the game now more appealing to Asian (especially Chinese) markets. The stereotype is that Asians are smart but that's only because in USA they only accepted well graded Asian students to go to universities. You look average Asian and they are impatient, low educated, living in their constantly overheated households due to the weather and lack of cooling, they don't have temperament for long windy games. Their university degrees are about the level of first grade of highschool, and can easily be passed apparently. I happen to be married with Asian woman and she has like 0 patience to watch for example documentary about anything other than crime drama. She graduated Asian university and has basic understanding of physics of 5 year old infant. Basic stuff like how stars are forming, has anyone ever even went to moon are totally absent apparently in university degree level of education in Asia. - The old seasons were not better because the games took longer, but because the damage was far slower and it allowed to escape from getting into bad position, unless you get heavily CC'd by entire enemy team. Now it's like whoever gets to click your enemy first team wins. Because Riot wanted to make game appeal to the audience of people who watch E-sports, who fail to understand and appreciate the slow winding up kills and tension. You look games like table tennis and badminton, fencing and boxing, they are more viewed sports in China compared to slow games like football. - Riot shifted from wanting high quality long extending games (with occasional 1 man snowballing into team victory) into game of duels with some wacky end game which barely ever changes in outcome because of these barons and stuff, unless you're extremely high level and have extremely close skillgap. For casual persons perspective the game has shifted heavily into mass snowball team oriented game where individuality is extremely limited and solo plays are narrowed down because it wasn't cool to apparently watch 1 team stomping other, which wasn't even problem in tournaments anyway.... Blame the new Chinese overlords for %%%%ing up the game so bad.
: Can't understand why you got down voted.You just told us the truth that everyone else doesn't dare to do that.And you got down voted.EVERYONE,don't you remember how many time u wasted in this game?To be mentioned,playing this game isn't wasting of the time!So DONT SAY some stupid thing like "Stop playing then".Cause we love this game,playing this game isn't wasting of time but playing with UNSKILLED PLAYERS is really wasting of time and frustrating!!!{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
> [{quoted}](name=EwigeMut,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EdLNE3wu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-28T13:17:15.083+0000) > > Can't understand why you got down voted.You just told us the truth that everyone else doesn't dare to do that.And you got down voted.EVERYONE,don't you remember how many time u wasted in this game?To be mentioned,playing this game isn't wasting of the time!So DONT SAY some stupid thing like "Stop playing then".Cause we love this game,playing this game isn't wasting of time but playing with UNSKILLED PLAYERS is really wasting of time and frustrating!!!{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Well this is Riot fanboy forums so wouldn't expect any of them to understand toxic talk about their "favorite" (only) game company. What sets me off even more than the %%%%ing garbage matchmaking combined with %%%%ing garbage rune system and champion balance design is the %%%%ing bronze V forum trolls who jerk off to their %%%%ing thumbs down like they didn't have anything better to do, while posting some stupid meme bullshit.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: This isnt funny anymore. League of legends 2016 (and before) vs 2018.
I'm actually going to say something controversial. The damage is a BIT higher than it was before, when it comes to early game, and it snowballs into medium bit more damage into late game. One-two shotting enemies still existed back in the old days. You could kill whole team with Yasuo if he had penetration runes and you didn't even have to build full crit. The damage boost from Infinity Edge was just out of this world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJRyjZYovU It's higher damage than it was before on very specific champions though, game has become a lot more bursty because of the way runes work in general, usually just giving a damage boost from the start of an ability, but even without runes most of these kills in 1 shot video (by the OP) would have been executed in old days, with maybe additional 1 hit on them. Or did everyone just blindly forget the 1 shot Rengars? Like I said the damage is slightly higher, but for example this Evelynn that died in the 1 shot, she didn't have a single health item or magic resistance item, and opponent was probably equally fed as her. If she just did the ultimate from start she'd be the one one shotting Taliyah. People don't build resist and get 1 shot by assassin, that's not something new. People are just worse in general in the game. That combined with the fact that game is made more anti snowball it's not actually had such a huge effect on peoples ability to snowball carry and 1 shot 5 people 1 by 1. It's mostly the expectations of players have shifted because old runes used to always give you ARMOR, they used to give you MAGIC RESISTANCE, those runes are now being replaced by everyone just picking instant burst runes... combined with Riots inability to create defensive burst runes... unless you throw a stun on enemy or something, making this very defensive rune viable to every champion. This is horrible design. Overall the whole rune system should have been reworked into something like "10% more damage overall, 15% more health, +2 gold every 5 seconds, 15% more damage on enemies with 33% or less health and 100% healing from that extra damage" or something like that. Just a single choice. That's just too much complexity for the sake of complexity. It's frustrating, it creates these "build this build it's the best" websites and makes the whole gaming somekind of interactive web search experience. And I %%%%ing hate to look things out googling when I'm trying to play the game. I loved Divinity Original Sin, all the way halfway in the game, then it just hit me with the spider boss and troll village when I was clearly underleveled, but I didn't know where to go. I had to search and search but finally found way by googling on where to go next. I was supposed to get this bubble out and then get experience in some cellar and then on winter world. The %%%%... Why is this shit hidden so hard? And things got really bad in the end temples, where whole progress depended on you finding tiny switch, or having the right camera angle to detect the breakable door to discover new pathway.... and game not even telling me that it was added on inventory clear enough that I would know it for 100% certainty. So much frustration just because the devs think that the people playing so long must demand some incredibly complexity to keep them happy. No, that's not what were here for. Were not looking for COMPLEXITY OUTSIDE OF THE GAME, we are looking for complexity WITHIN THE GAME. - Why is t his so hard for video game developers to get? People praised Skyrim when it came out but now nobody is playing that shit. The whole world feels lifeless and combat looks so bad even on that days standards. You look at games like Dark Souls and you recognize that there are still huge talents out there that know where to push the buttons. They created hard worlds where people are dependent on 100% on skill... or 99% on skill and 1% on luck if they are not skilled enough to dodge all the boss moves, to get things in the right order. They created complex universe with complex class system FOR THE PLAYERS TO EXPERIENCE WITHIN THE GAME, GRADUALLY. This new rune system is not: 1) Noob friendly 2) Experienced player friendly 3) Balanced 4) In the freakin game 5) Possible to experience 1 level at the time, it's like giving 60 level account in WoW (Vanilla) and then expecting that player to suddenly be able to tank dungeon boss by picking up skills. No, the experimentation is necessary because system is complex. The game doesn't give us choice for that. It demands us to already know it with very high specificity... or just google best build for the meta
lazarlol1 (EUNE)
: He is good champion and only problem i have with him is his passive to not be able to hide in bushes and high skill cap... he is broken if you know to play him like any other champion but to new player on him it will be worst champion... In around 50 games of my own i didn't saw him picked or banned and i had no problems with it.{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} {{sticker:draven-pose}}
"he is broken if you know to play him like any other champion" What's the point of arguing "if you play him good, he performs good", this is just tautology. It means nothing. Has there ever been a champion that performs worse when played good? - "In around 50 games of my own i didn't saw him picked or banned and i had no problems with it." So you had 50 games and never seen him picked and didn't have problem with him. That's so deep.
: You really need to word your changes differently next time you propose something, because those changes are very hard to understand and can be misinterpreted quite easily, like I did. Not even gonna debate you anymore since you clearly don't understand how mobas with this many champions work, but if you're comparing a champion with a very niche playstyle and kit to a bunch of burst mages and then proceed to try and change him into a burst mage you got no idea what you're doing. Initially, you'll be just changing this one, but once you sit down, you'll be changing multiple champions that YOU have a problem with and YOU can't play into the same thing. Eventually down the line you'll have a plethora of burst mages that all do the same thing. Each champion needs to have their own personality and their own style. There are some with extreme similiarities in their style, but still have differences. If you're saying that every mage has to be able to burst someone down like Veigar, has to have a global ability because of Karthus/Xerath and has to provide the same amount of teamfighting capabilities as Orianna, you will have the same 140 champions in the game. Furthermore, you have to consider the enjoyment level of both playing him and playing against him. It would feel extremely bad for most people, I assume, when they play against him just because of the amount of global pressure he has as well as his playstyle being ANOTHER burst mage. We were given Aurelion Sol because of the famous Ao Shin leak that got everyone so hyped up to an incredible degree. They gave us Aurelion Sol instead of Ao Shin, but they had to keep the same level of hype. So Aurelion Sol has to have a completely different playstyle and a completely different set of abilities in order to keep his background/history/trivia. Turning him into something league already has is just stupid. And please, you can't insult someone when they don't agree with you. You have to approach the situation with a more respectful manner. There will be plenty of people that disagree with you in your lifetime. You can't just fire insults at them and feel justified.
"Not even gonna debate you anymore since you clearly don't understand how mobas with this many champions work" You're the one who agreed on that Aurelion Sol is very niche pick and he doesn't fit all setups (suffers most heavily on counters). --"This iteration is about having burst potential because OP can't play a different niche playstyle such as current Asol."-- --"He has a very niche playstyle which is why he is hard to master and his pick rate is low"-- YES he is different, that's the whole point. Congratulations. You got the idea. It's just you failed to identify, that's exactly what I've been trying to tell all along. Why are you so thick? He has a playstyle, that is unfit for MOBA, because it doesn't fit the majority of games. I didn't even deny he's very strong on challenger level, where you got really even matches and you're more focused on lane pressure and stuff. Like the other guy said, his strength is ONLY the pushing potential. That's pretty much it. Push and roam, and hope for the best. Now if you're trying to rise in rank, lets say Silver, you simply cannot play Aurelion Sol effectively. He has bad luck in jungle and he's going down on fed jungle. He might win the pushing game early and even get 2-3 stacks of 160 gold from tower shield before shield wears out, but he's not going to destroy the base, meanwhile you can't gank other lanes because they're just randomly dropping dead and they can't react to your gank, and it's very hard to play on long sustained damage champion on random setups. On lower ranks his presence is absolute garbage, his outplay potential is near unexistent, apart from winning early by pushing and harassing. And you can't make a champion that works only in 5% of skill level, against specific range setups and call it good design. He's interesting concept, like the Netflix Black Mirror movie. Seems interesting, brings new ideas, but executes horribly and doesn't fit the genre. It's like adding music champion to League of Legends that depends on playing Mozart with keyboard. He is not fit champion for MOBA that is about burst mostly. You cannot go 1v5 on fed Aurelion and expect to win. He's playing more like ADC but without the mobility of ADC or the damage. Only thing that is really his strength is slow from Rylai. If that item got deleted even the challengers couldn't excuse his existence. "Each champion needs to have their own personality and their own style." On a certain degree. But actually many champions have very similar play styles... because it's MOBA game. You try to execute something that Blizzard did to Heroes of the Storm, and you're going to have a surge of players who find other MOBA games old and out of date and boring and too difficult. What you end up having is a surge of fans because it's just new and fresh, but anyone who actually cares about competitive is going to be upset and after getting frustrated long enough, they're just going to quit and the hype dies. Aurelion Sol is basically Heroes of the Storm. It's unique, nice concept on paper, but it fails to deliver on competitive level except for very niche group and thus doesn't achieve success and it's basically a dying champion. " If you're saying that every mage has to be able to burst someone down like Veigar" What the.... where did I say that? No it was you. Stop projecting your own thinking onto me. I never said anything like that. You're the one suggesting all the time that the rework would make him able to drop someone from full health. I never said that. Why is this so difficult for you... well I know why. "We were given Aurelion Sol because of the famous Ao Shin leak that got everyone so hyped up to an incredible degree. They gave us Aurelion Sol instead of Ao Shin, but they had to keep the same level of hype. So Aurelion Sol has to have a completely different playstyle and a completely different set of abilities in order to keep his background/history/trivia. Turning him into something league already has is just stupid." So if they hyped a champion, and then released other one, kept the hype on that one, then it's impossible to rework him? Okay, got that.... except no... Pretty much every champion, just like Irelia, Akali, Fiora, Twisted Fate, they all received rework. Even Ezreal has been reworked like 3 times and he's like the front cover of the League of Legends page. His skins were greatly advertised everywhere... I don't know what the %%%% you're talking about. They rework champions all the time. They even admit that they're working on Aurelion REWORK even as early as 2016. How are you this blind to reality? EDIT: Just to show you I added a link to original post about previous game but I can put it here as well. https://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/2103001212/12798
: > W: 1. Make skill only active ability, increase damage by 2 2. Meteors vanish when hitting on enemy just like Diana. Add a slow based on number of projectiles hit starting from 1% ending up to 20% if you hit all. No where does it say the stars are not there. OP hasn't made that clear. Regardless tho. He has a perma 100-0 from level 6 until the game ends without the need for any items. His playstyle would change from a control mage that roams, to a burst mage with global pressure. He would be bad if he were to do the same job as current Asol, but that's not what this iteration is about. This iteration is about having burst potential because OP can't play a different niche playstyle such as current Asol. No where does it say about the R damage, so if he is making changes and doesn't say anything about damage, we can safely assume the damage is kept on it. We're not talking about nerfs. We're talking about the OPs ability to make poor balance changes. We're talking about the OPs version of Asol, not before, not after, not post nerfs. The one the OP is talking about. So forget nerfs. He has more burst than any current champion. He can 100-0 people in less than a second CONSISTENTLY without items. Asol can still waveclear extremely easy in this iteration against most matchups. He will easily outpush things like Orianna, Early level Azir, Early level Viktor, Cassio, Lissandra ect. The phrase "just like Diana" implies that the W will be AOE. And also "1% ending up to 20% if you hit all" can imply a number of stars between 1 and 20. What you fail to see is that Asol is already regarded as one of the most powerful picks in live. He has a very niche playstyle which is why he is hard to master and his pick rate is low. Change him into the most powerful burst mage and his playstyle becomes very static and similar to the likes of Syndra, he becomes the most picked/banned champion that has ever existed. The changes the OP is making are huge buffs to an already powerful pick.
"No where does it say the stars are not there" 2nd part of R changes. "OP hasn't made that clear." It's only unclear to people that don't understand english. "He has a perma 100-0 from level 6 until the game ends without the need for any items." Based on what? His current kit gives him free AoE already that he can use to push waves. Only change would be that he would have only area damage for doing spells. And if being able to push somehow wins the game, I guess Sivir is the top AD carry in the game, is that so? Oh right, nobody plays her because she just sucks. "is playstyle would change from a control mage that roams, to a burst mage with global pressure." You realize the changes I make would actually make his roam weaker damage doesn't really kick in until later of the game and crowd control would be pretty weak without ultimate and the skill would work more like an escape over walls than anything else? Yeah global pressure because of ultimate... Gangblank also has global ultimate. Is he somehow super broken and unplayable to play against. May I remind he has 0 cost Barrel from level 1. I guess his push must be unstoppably good then, no? Lux has way better global pressure. Kassadin ganks way harder than this rework. But somehow this Aurelion rework would push all lanes at once and destroy enemy base at 10 min mark. You realize how stupid that sounds? "He has more burst than any current champion." At this point I just stopped reading. You honestly think Aurelion Sol has more burst than Syndra, Veigar, Malzahar, Vel'Koz, Neeko, Annie or Lux? You are insane.
: Massively reduced cd on ult. E increases damage by 25% R makes people take 75% more damage That's a 100% increase. W makes passive (The stars, note that they are not removed, but the W spell has changed) double in damage. Level 6 - Base, E into lane. 25% extra damage. Use ult (150 base damage + 25% = 200) Use W (rank 3 = 75-100 per star (Max 3+ stars) 250 base (easier to work with) + 25% + 75% = 500 Use Q (70 + 25% + 75% = 140) Total = 200 + 500 + 140 = 840 damage with BASE values. Please note, you will have approximately 70-80 ap at this point. Asol has very high ap ratios. And that's only at level 6 with no ap at all. You will be adding around 150-200 damage just in ap at level 6 alone. That's over 1000 damage AT LEVEL 6!!! Not to mention the global pressure he brings with his ULT. LITERALLY ULT FROM FOUNTAIN TO FOUNTAIN. And his Q with a range of XERATH ULT. W damage was also an extreme rough estimate, and I didn't even factor in the double damage from it. So expect the W damage to be anywhere from 400-1400 damage AT RANK 3!!!!!!! I fail to see how this wouldn't make Asol the strongest champion ever to have existed.
"That's a 100% increase." Yeah, you're so great at math. I'm impressed. Did you also take into consideration that ultimate makes no damage. Or do you know what "ONLY" in caps means? And even if ultimate did damage like it currently does, it wouldn't clearly work on itself as it would mainly be the after effect. It's the same way you have some bonuses that effect on slowed enemies, they don't effect on the skill that does the slow, at least to my knowledge. And despite even if the ultimate damage was buffed 100% it wouldn't still be on level of Orianna ultimate. Also it's impossible to build 25% damage increase on E at level 6 because you'd literally only make 5% more damage at that point when you put only 1 level on E. Also you're wasting an entire ability just to fly, which is barely nothing compared to things like, I don't know... having 2nd ability to land on enemy, like Syndra. I'm really just confused if you're just stupid or just a troll at this point. There are champions that have 3 abilities that all do damage, that far outdamage whatever Aurelion Sol would push out even with 100% damage increase, and somehow this is too crazy. Veigar can pretty much 1 shot combo any enemy outside of tanks. But Aurelion Sol is problem now because he can do 100% damage increase ON HIMSELF only. Oh it's global, so it must be broken. Karthus can 5 man ult on global range and does far more damage with specific builds that can make ultimate deal over 40% of total health on damage with mid game builds. But Aurelion Sol is such a massive problem because now he can fight a little more on 1v1 and do more direct damage, are you kidding me? You must really suck at League if you think these changes would suddenly make Aurelion like 80% winrate champion, and to actually think that Riot wouldn't fix the numbers to reflect more balanced approach. Only morons would take any numeric value as a suggestion as absolute. And my ...relative... always ends up having fights with me over something I say because she's taking everything as absolute. I can't even make jokes that she'll understand outside fart jokes. I know what stupid looks like and you're pretty much on same level as her. We can talk about tweaking numbers, or that maybe you want the current gameplay style to remain where he's just this niche out of MOBA game champion that does strong constant area damage but really sucks at burst and is very unfit for MOBA in general, that's an argument you could make, but to just straight out say changes I suggest are impossibly game breaking, you're just projecting your own insecurities to me.
: he doesn't need to own the champion to have game knowledge about that champion.
And I don't have to be 150 IQ person to recognize you gave any of the points 0 responses and thus my point still stands. Saying I'm wrong isn't a counter argument. Am I talking to some 6 year olds convinced on their positions or stupid adults? Also, It doesn't take some challenger pro to comment on champion design to know it's bad. You can watch any YouTube personality play Aurelion Sol and admit that he has problem with how wonky his whole skillset is. https://youtu.be/zTaLk0DY-x8?t=21 Every point I made is pretty much addressed in this video. Q skill: https://youtu.be/zTaLk0DY-x8?t=284 W SKILL: https://youtu.be/zTaLk0DY-x8?t=371 R SKILL: https://youtu.be/zTaLk0DY-x8?t=575 And I mean even Riot Employers themselves say he has issues with hard encounters (aka gap closer champions). https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/j1wLKWXq-meddler-or-other-rioters-responisble-fro-aurelion-sol?comment=0003 "We are considering some changes for later in the year, but I wouldn't characterize them as "back to the drawing board" by any means. We'd target making him more accessible (though I imagine he'll always have a significant learning curve), plus opportunistic gains where we can get them. If we could make a **SPELL OR TWO** more satisfying to use **OR MAKE HIS MATCHUPS LESS ABOUT HARD COUNTERS**, we'd be pretty happy about that. It's hard to predict exactly what will be possible until we actually get to that work, though." - Also if you need 1000 games on a champion to be able to play him well... what kind of no-life people are you? I don't have years to master a %%%%ing single champion, I happen to have activities and work. Every champion should be approachable from first gameplay all the way to being played maybe 20 times played enough to play him well in your tier of gameplay. That should be plenty of time enough to master the champion and know his strengths and weaknesses.
Shamose (EUW)
: > His only means of escape is his ultimate that takes forever to come off from cooldown If this is your first sentence on why he's bad then you just can't play him.
> [{quoted}](name=Shamose,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=iRWIvUQb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-29T19:42:53.532+0000) > > If this is your first sentence on why he's bad then you just can't play him. Says the guy who doesn't even own champion.
Rioter Comments
: you should stop arguing like this in board. I feel negative attitude, be careful or riot will give you permaban :D i know ur feeling, I feel it too. This game make less and less sense with every update, that happened and will happen in the future again. you know entropy? Riot made so big chaos over time since release and they cannot fix it back, only thing they can do is to do more and more chaos till their end of time.
I don't honestly give a %%%%. They've %%%%ed up the game so beyond comprehension. --- Like I had full AP Xerath who did 0 damage against Sivir who was 5-0 that all my combo did was basically have Nami to heal one single time. This game has become so %%%%ing team reliant and so rune breaking that unless you min max every single character and somehow have some massive synergy, like Braum Lucian, you're going to have bad time climbing. To top that off the system intentionally matches you with people who can't %%%%ing play. I had jungle abandon me for 1v1 when I kept pinging on the enemy and Lee Sin who was enemy jungle escaped earlier so it was easy kill... but to my surprise the jungle just afk took the critter from river and then proceeded to duel 1v1 after I got killed. It's so %%%%ing bad... like it takes a special kind of %%%%%% to design this bad system and not to fix it. Even the pros think this game is IN A %%%%ING TERRIBLE STATE.
Surma (EUNE)
: Nothing makes sense anymore...
Just getting worse and worse. I'm picking a jungle and doing just fine early but lanes start feeding nonstop. We end up defending base despite winning a teamfight and teammates just refusing to co-operate and we just splitting around and trying to not get caught on obvious when they just 5 man snowball of course someone is to get caught. End of the game I get blamed for having only 90 cs. WELL OF COURSE WHEN IM SPENDING %%%%ING 100 MINUTES JUST DEFENDING THE BASE AND TRYING TO GET MOBILITY BOOST BOOOST TO RUSH INTO ENEMY TEAM WHO BY THE WAY IS SO %%%%ING OVERFED IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING ANYWAY WITHOUT TEAM COMMITMENT. %%%% THIS GAME. %%% THIS GAME. i'M %%%%ING HAD ENOUGH.
Surma (EUNE)
: Next game I nuke Yasuo to 30%, comes lane 20 seconds later after visiting river full HP. I drop low in next duel, I go (the opposite) river, I find no plants at all. What the %%%% is this. - Just a bunch of random shit just to delude any skill from the game. You really are the dumbest gaming company I've ever seen. You took what is great and now made everything a confusing mess nobody can understand. How can you %%%% up perfect game so bad? - Like what is Urgot now? Bunch of randomly appearing rings dealing massive damage when he just chooses to dance around target while shield is up? Where is the skill on playing him now? - I do my full combo with Akali on Lucian and he's still full health. - Confusing %%%%ing mess of a game. HOW CAN YOU %%%% THIS GAME SO BAD? WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS GAME??!? This is like years of success you implement similar balance as Vanilla WoW had, where Warriors are Rock that beats paper and scissors in this Rock Paper Scissors setting. You took a perfect game, simplistic champions, simplistic runes, and you make this cluster of... what even is this anymore?!?!? Every champion is just clueless set of skills that require luck to aim correctly because there's always that 50% chance to miss, then you add the fact some heroes still ignore everything like this and you got randomized %%%%fest of majority of ranged heroes just poking one another until something happens out of pure luck.... and we've not even talked about matchmaking. - I only loved the fact you combined the runes and masteries into a single thing... but you even %%%%ed up that balance so badly. Now for some reason everything is either too %%%%ing tanky to kill, too %%%%ing high dps to duel, everything is just a huge cluster%%%% of brokenness, and only way to get to the top is abuse these broken champions with broken runes like crazy. The skill from within the actual game has shifted into picking the right stuff from the start of the game. I mean this is even worse than in DotA now.
Speaking of matchmaking... the very next game we had AFK Gragas who was intentionally dancing in middle of 2 towers just moving around and costing us the game. - We fight evenly at the bottom and come out mostly winning, but then get ganked like million times because AFK Gragas and we lose. Why even play when 99% of the game result is out of your control? I played totally %%%% on that game with Gangplank (oh well "%%%%" like, not being the meta OP pick and losing duels), and we won despite enemy Riven being like 20-2. As long as you group up and play as a team, it's really all coming to whether your team is up to play against the enemy. Nothing matters, individual performance (apart from few stupidly broken champions) has been hammered down so hard it's become impossible to have even a slight enjoyment of this game. - WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE THIS GAME LIKE HEROES OF THE STORM? That game has extremely poor success, Heroes of the Storm is absolute %%%%, and yet you keep implementing these broken mechanics that are 100% random to cause some tiny feel of "difference" in the gameplay, when in fact it's just whole game now filled with ton of bull%%%% that is 0 out of your control. Top games ever created like Football, Chess, Go, they all rely on pure skill, and despite some being only 2 dimensional games with 8x8 set pieces, they still manage to bring more variety to the game than Riot brings with this artificial bull%%%% random number generator. Why even try to market game as competitive when it's almost a dice roll whether you get that plant in favorable location to give extra health to make you survive longer in lane? Why not just add fountains like in Heroes of the Storm if you want players to lane longer? What's the point of randomness than add artificial imbalance to the game? I just don't get your philosophy...
Surma (EUNE)
: Nothing makes sense anymore...
Next game I nuke Yasuo to 30%, comes lane 20 seconds later after visiting river full HP. I drop low in next duel, I go (the opposite) river, I find no plants at all. What the %%%% is this. - Just a bunch of random shit just to delude any skill from the game. You really are the dumbest gaming company I've ever seen. You took what is great and now made everything a confusing mess nobody can understand. How can you %%%% up perfect game so bad? - Like what is Urgot now? Bunch of randomly appearing rings dealing massive damage when he just chooses to dance around target while shield is up? Where is the skill on playing him now? - I do my full combo with Akali on Lucian and he's still full health. - Confusing %%%%ing mess of a game. HOW CAN YOU %%%% THIS GAME SO BAD? WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS GAME??!? This is like years of success you implement similar balance as Vanilla WoW had, where Warriors are Rock that beats paper and scissors in this Rock Paper Scissors setting. You took a perfect game, simplistic champions, simplistic runes, and you make this cluster of... what even is this anymore?!?!? Every champion is just clueless set of skills that require luck to aim correctly because there's always that 50% chance to miss, then you add the fact some heroes still ignore everything like this and you got randomized %%%%fest of majority of ranged heroes just poking one another until something happens out of pure luck.... and we've not even talked about matchmaking. - I only loved the fact you combined the runes and masteries into a single thing... but you even %%%%ed up that balance so badly. Now for some reason everything is either too %%%%ing tanky to kill, too %%%%ing high dps to duel, everything is just a huge cluster%%%% of brokenness, and only way to get to the top is abuse these broken champions with broken runes like crazy. The skill from within the actual game has shifted into picking the right stuff from the start of the game. I mean this is even worse than in DotA now.
Surma (EUNE)
: Nothing makes sense anymore...
Next game I'm Gangplank with Ignite 2 def gear and vs Riven with Teleport and builds only cooldown reduction and damage. Riven wins every single trade apart from dying level 2 against me, worse player who has same runes basically, builds probably same items every game, wins after level 3 just because she's Riven and that for some reason scales better with runes. F***ing nothing makes sense anymore. I could do nothing in that game apart from killing enemy Ashe from bush once, and I could have basically done that with any champion. ---- Like what's the f***ing point to play immobile champions anymore? Just pick Irelia, Ekko, Zed, Kaisa, Braum, Leona and other broken champions with way more damage and utility than balance should allow, and see how easy it is win to this s%%% meta. I mean people are starting to play Irelia middle because mobile top laners are becoming broken. Nothing but Jax, Riven, Irelia all games. Or if it's not one of them then it's Yasuo. Like game is becoming so toxic, banning any sort of champion type has become possible. Even if you ban 5 Assassins, there's like 15 others that are available doing exactly the same thing, basically limiting any strategy the banning section could offer. Basically the ban has become "what broken champions to ban", not what gameplay style to limit.
Surma (EUNE)
: Nothing makes sense anymore...
Next game I play poppy and pretty much demolished enemy top... but then still lost because apparently Kleptomancy Ezreal with Iceborn Gauntlet took like 10% health as damage from my full combo... don't know how that works. And of course to top that enemy mid was 14-2 Yasuo who could basically 1v5 whole team. Broken trash game with rigged matchmaking forcing you to lose. - Why the %%%% is Ezreal like the best carry at the moment. Why do you put true damage and leap on a %%%%ing ranged champion? Nothing of that makes sense and it USED TO MAKE SENSE because he wasn't broken as %%%% couple of patches ago, and those who mained him were still doing decent. It's like Riot has lost touch of balancing this game. It's now all for selling overpriced skins with highly mobile female characters.
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Surma

Level 169 (EUNE)
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