DeejayF (EUW)
: I can do them to some extend my issue is that I don't know what first items to take or what runes to take. For example I saw a lot of people go inspiration secondary with CD and boots and build longs sword first item into {{item:3133}} and then {{item:3071}} but since I get my ass kicked a lot of the time I don't get much use out of the runes. Wouldn't it be better to go resolve secondary and maybe Dshield for a noob on Riven such as myself? While it's cool and all to have {{item:3133}} I don't have any health or defensive stats which backfires for me
Riven has quite a lot of options on runes too. Conqueror is the best for her now usually, simply because of how fast she can stack it with animation cancelling, but before Conqueror became what it is now, Riven players regularly had a large variety of rune builds. If you are concerned about survival early on, then both Aftershock and Undying can work well. The former is a bit stronger still, and both gives you full access to the resolve tree with shield bash +bone plating+ revitalize should make you a lot sturdier early on. The main question you should ask is how you are planning to beat your opponent. And items like the long sword and {{item:3133}} scale better if your animation cancelling is strong. The long sword technically gives you defense too with your E, but if you match up allows you to be a bit defensive early on, then do so. Riven's scaling is massive into the mid game, so just farming well early on is still acceptable, even if you want to get early kills to carry.
DeejayF (EUW)
: Any tips on how to play Riven?
As swampert said, you'll have to start in the practice tool and learn how to do animation cancelling. That's basically the entry level for Riven. Without cancelling at least one or two animations in a fight, you will often lose duels you were meant to win. And the items are where the tricky part comes. Basically anything that gives AD+CDR is awesome and most items which gives at least one of those (and no AP obviously) is still very good. This means that in any match Riven would want to buy at least 9-10 items + boots. Picking the right ones in the right order will decide the result a lot of time. If you look up the match histories of Adrian and BoxBox mentioned by TheToyTracker you'll see that they switch their item builds and even keystone runes and summoner spells quite often. So don't follow a fix build but rather take your time to learn the match ups and their requirements.
: TFT Isn't blitzcrank a hextech to?
You missed the larger issue: how half of the Glacial team should be Noble too (Ashe, Lissandra, Sejuani).
: > [{quoted}](name=Nightangael,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=VXi7R4JF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-30T12:17:50.892+0000) > > You managed to lose to riven as malphite, who's pretty much her 2nd hardest counter in the game... The problem here isn't with riven, it's with your playstyle. Typical "yOuRe ThE pRoBLEm" answer Im not even talking about Riven in the ARAM I just played lmao, im talking of her as a whole with past experiences.
If we are talking about experiences, then Riven is the champion with the lowest win rate when i face her. There are over a dozen champions that beat her so hard on top lane it's not even funny. My suggestion is to start playing her a bit and you'll find out what works against her very quickly. Or if you are right, then you will have a lot of very simple victories.
Thervor (EUW)
: Suggestions to improve punishment/reform system - and half of a hopeless appeal to a Rioter. (Long)
I've only read the suggestion part yet, so i'll have to come back for the rest, but i think this is the key weakness in your suggestion: >Maybe 15 days wasn't enough. Maybe 30 wasn't either. But after waiting 2 months without playing, and knowing that after that comes 4, a player that cares about his account will stop negative behaviour much more likely than one that was permanently banned and is now using an account he doesn't care about. As you said, most toxic players simply make a new account after their perma ban, so why wouldn't they make a new one right after a month long ban? They will not spend any time away from the game, they will just smurf all the same knowing that they will eventually get their main account back too. Also Riot have ran tests on giving players a chance to get their perma banned accounts back, but those tests always failed. One example i remember is when they challenged permabanned players to raise a fresh account to lvl30 without being punished in order to get their main back, but well over 95% failed this task. So if people who got past the 4th round of punishment are very likely to be toxic again, then how would your system hold up?
: It doesn't elude me, There could always be a deterrent to reject such as you only get one chance to reject per day or you could still lose LP. Its not a perfect idea by any means and I haven't spent too long thinking about the ins and the outs! The few extra minutes I was more referring to the times when the queue has been expected at 3 mins but at 1.30 I get autofilled as jungle....I would rather wait until 3 mins for a position I can play. Orrrrrr you could choose to be in a longer 'autofill protected queue'. I get one game with my boyfriend each evening, if we want our fave positions so that we enjoy the match together we could get in (for example) a ten minute queue meanwhile plenty of people would rather get into a game quicker using the normal queue with the autofill risk.....I don't know. Not important anyways I'm just procrastinating at work
Very similar ideas have been tested in the past. I if i remember correctly on the OCE server Riot started an experiment where people could opt out from being autofilled into a role. This was supposed to go on for a few weeks to gather data, but the queue times crashed so hard that everyone begged Riot to stop it and so the test was cancelled in only 2-3 days. Autofill is pretty much the necessary evil of role selection. Everything from the OCE test to the DQ disaster suggests that there is just no simple way around it.
: Ok it was updated so let's see what has changed after like 2-3 patches. {{champion:58}} Her win rate changed against him from 46.45% to 50.41% {{champion:82}} Her win rate changed against him from 49.35% to 47.52% {{champion:24}} He popped out now so Riven has 45.61% against him. {{champion:114}} She appeared too so Riven has 48.87% win rate against her. Can't really include {{champion:41}} even if she wins against him 38.82% only because he will poke out most of opponents he goes against. And that is it everything else is once again above 50%. You can take something like {{champion:58}} who is solid and strong top lane champion and he still will have a lot of matchups where he wins below 50% while {{champion:92}} stays consistent and wins above 50% in most of her matchups.
Read what i wrote please. Websites only list the popular counter picks. ChoGath for example on EUW is the 94th in terms of pick ratio in the past month, even tho Riven has absolutely zero chance to win against one who knows what he is doing (build armor+hp, max E-W and only use Q after E, that's it). Regardless of whether they are meta at the moment or not, just pick Cho, Jayce, Quinn, Kennen or anyone else from the list i wrote above and you will win an absurdly large amount of games against Riven. I stopped playing Riven at the start of season 4 because her hard counters are way too strong against her in my opinion and i've tracked my losses against her since then. From the beginning of season 4 up to today i haven't lost more than 3 games against her and in one of them we had a disconnect. Just try picking Cho and see what happens. If you have passing knowledge of him, then you will get your easiest win of the week.
: Get rid of autofill
For you the queue time might be the same. For others it would be 20-30, sometimes even 50 minutes longer without autofill. If you want to get rid of autofill, then start playing every role voluntarily and encourage everyone else to do the same too.
Silent Note (EUNE)
: Yeah, that makes sense and sounds like it may be the case. However, I still don't get why people hate something just because it's popular. Like with Star Guardian Ahri I kinda get it, because her personality is so hateful, but I don't see anything bad with Lux being in the center of Star Guardians. She seems to be the only one who connects the Star Guardians. Jinx is kind of a loose cannon, and I don't think any other Star Guardian would be able to keep Jinx with the team aside from Lux. Lux is also the one who organised the PJ Party, so I don't see who else would be able to be in the center other than Lux.
Have you ever met a Lux that spammed laughter? :D Personally i don't hate or like champions for their skins, so the following part will be just my guesses. First out of the way: i think Ornn players play with the basic, because it was just nailed perfectly. Quite simply for most champions i think the original versions are the best designed, so i don't really buy skins even for my favorites. Back to the others: Yeah, Lux is a center piece for a reason in many places. She also got her comic, because she is an interesting character in an interesting situation. But when you break it down to traits, she is a naturally honest and cheerful noble girl who is very selfless, works for charity, she is a mage in an anti-mage city and so her youth is very troubled because even tho she just wants what is good, her situation won't let her true inner strength shine (pun intented). She is a perfect Mary Sue material. You drop her into a situation and the story writes itself. She is also very easy to design skins for: take any idea teenage girls like and you have a Lux skin. While i don't agree with the sentiment and i can defend my opinion, she can easily look like a walking pile of cliches to people who don't like her too much. And to watch that such character seemingly gets a lot more attention than some of the more unique champions can rub a lot of people the wrong way. That's also why i don't just chalk it up as "saltiness" or anything like that. Another point of view is that both Ahri and Lux _and_ most of their skins are very popular. You will see one of them basically every day if you play more than one match, while you can often go for months before seeing a Skarner for example and i'm not even sure if i've seen his Sand Scourge skin ever in game in the 8 years since it's release. This adds quite a bit to the confirmation bias and the next point too. By this point people inherently hate "cashgrabs". The actions and attitude of corporations have tainted a lot of words in the past years. "DLC" used to be celebrated, because you could get more content without additional physical purchases. "Microtransactions" were revolutionary simultaneously solving thousands of years old problems in economy and making free to play models viable. "Cash cow" used to mean that a product or service finally have proven itself to be viable and sustainable, so it could look forward to a long and stable support, since it's company didn't have to put so much effort into marketing and similar secondary expenses. Good and desirable ideas became negative marks as they accumulated too many bad connotations. Lux and Ahri skins should be the "star products of an industry leading flagship" as classic economics would describe it, but now in todays landscape you can hardly find a discussion about them where "cashgrab" does not pop up. The terms have changed, the industry tainted them and the players react.
Silent Note (EUNE)
: Why is it that Ahri and Lux are getting so much hate when they get a new skin?
Confirmation bias coupled with some marketing from Riot. Lux for example has quite an interesting history in my opinion. Back when she was released, champions always had 2 extra skins right away. Often one or both was barely more than a chroma. Lux got the Spell thief and Sorceress skins right away. However after that her next 3 skins had a very different tone: Commando, Imperial and Steel Legion all looked as if "Garen just grabbed her little sister and brought her along for his weekend with his friends". Basically none of those are about the original personality of Lux. Riot discussed it too, openly, and they decided that they wanted to do something about this. So when they made the Star Guardian skin, they were sure to highlight and promote it a lot. And it really paid off, the skin obviously became popular enough to make room for a whole skin line and an alternate universe with it's own lore too, and in the center of all that promotion is always Lux. Renekton would be a good counter example. As you correctly said, he has just as many skins, but he is never used as a center piece of a promotion nor was he the original / figure head of a skin line. He was _part_ of many skin lines: pool party, toy, prehistoric, hextech and of course with SKT1, the seasonal winner skins. But honestly, think about each skin line and Renekton will never be the one to come to your mind first. I for example think of Annie, Janna or Alistar when it comes to Hextech. Gnar for toys, and definitely not Renekton for Pool Party, even tho i like that skin's concept too. :) And thus we get to confirmation bias. Ahri and Lux have been promoted for their skins a lot and in general their original pictures have been often used on promotion materials, official backgrounds for the website, banners and so on. And if people see them everywhere, then they will notice them more when they pop up again in somewhere.
Shamose (EUW)
: Test something in ranked: "Go test in normals" Test something in normals: "Why are you tryharding?" Where do I test something then?
Do or do not, there is no test. The objective in normals is obviously losing matches and accepting that deep inside we are all noobs because otherwise we would be tryhards and that's not good.
: I was wondering how old are players here LOL
33 . Now that you mention, i realized that since i'm getting close to my 10th year in League with 3 - 3.5 years in DotA before that, there can be players here that were born after i started playing MOBAs. And i don't know how to feel about that.
Cypherous (EUW)
: That is the other side of it And the thing is, it won't actually improve the quality of matches, bad players will still be bad and remakes will be even more hilarious to watch, imagine waiting 30 minutes to get a match then having it remade after 3 minutes and you having to repeat another 30 minute queue :P
I once watched a pro's stream where he played Dark Souls iirc and after 50 minutes of that suddenly the "match found" message popped up out of nowhere. I wasn't even aware that his LoL client was running. Then someone dodged in champ select, the chat exploded and he went back to farm and PVP in DS.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > if people dont mind waiting longer (prob 1-2 mins longer) it shouldnt be a problem.. Try more like 30 minutes, and then you have to remember it affects everyone and not just you, if half the people in the game disable that option it increases queue times for everyone who isn't a support main :P
And while support mains will still have short queues, their matches will be worse too, since everyone else in the game has been waiting for a long time, the matchmaking is already recruiting everyone between bronze and master.
: It's burrito alright. After years of updates you should have noticed their balance team is potato and you should expect worst from them. I think Riven is the only champ that has AD scaling on all of her abilities and an ultimate steroid. That ability boosts all her other abilities and gives execute... Watching champion.gg her worst match up is {{champion:58}} with like 46.45% win rate and after that {{champion:82}} with 49.35% (he is still new and needs time to get used to). After those two that is about it everything else is above 50% winrate. I checked champions like {{champion:58}} , {{champion:86}}, {{champion:39}}, {{champion:114}}, {{champion:266}} and etc. Not a single Top lane champion has similar match up win rate like Riven. Their win rates against certain match up jumps around but Riven's win rate stays consistent. For me it signals that she is strong champion but for burrito I guess it means she is weak.
I like champion.gg, it is a very useful tool, but it has some key weaknesses. Regarding this topic for example is the fact that it only lists counters that are commonly picked against that champion in the current patch. BTW that site is now a bit out of date and last time i checked it stopped updating a while ago, that's also why you don't see more counters to Riven. Either way, Renekton is a consistent and popular counter, but aside from him there are a lot more. Cho is my favorite if i just want to ruin the day of a Riven, since a gold level Cho has absolutely no trouble beating a Riven main up to high diamond. Aside from them Darius, Garen, Gnar, Illaoi, Jayce, Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Poppy, Quinn, Vayne, Volibear and Yorick are incredibly strong against her. Some outher match ups can work quite well too, but you'll probably need some practice first like Cassiopeia, Lissandra, Nautilus or Ryze. In the past Olaf, Rengar and Gragas could beat her without breaking a sweat too, but it's been a while since the last time i confrimed those, so i won't include them in the list for now.
: why am i playing with a grandmaster lmao
He seems to be in a premade with his support. Apparently they play normals together occasionally, probably friends. If the support's MMR is low, then the match will be somewhere between their MMRs and well, that can incluse basically anything in the queue, based on everyone's unknown MMR in the match
: This is more or less the second but with the toplaner leaving lane because our jungler got invaded and died to their toplaner. Doesn't want to leave my lane and temporarily feeds midlaner before jungler stomps.
Yeah, it would be better if he communicated or something, but if someone can't stay on a lane safely then it's often better to just leave it. Roaming would be preferable, but just consider how much better this still is compared to him feeding top too.
: Can people be banned for stealing lanes mid game because they just feel like it?
Depends on some details. The role selection is enforced by punishments, so if someone got the role of bot and decides to ignore it and just play mid instead, then he can be banned. However if you are 10 minutes in the game for example and someone decides to leave their lane for whatever reason and go mid and stay there, then that is a perfectly acceptable strategy. It would be best if he did this in coordination and with communication, but just going to another lane on it's own after a while is perfectly fine.
: I was first pick jungle and it happens to be that I like to play Ivern aswell and he still has potential to win games for you. I main ADC and jungle. Also, I dont think picking Ivern has something to do with my matchmaking, nor my team inting. I also play rammus and xin jungle who have lots of CC but that does not change the behaviour of my teammates. Also this is not a qq thread about unbalanced champions. It is about matchmaking not making sense. If i get an ADC that has 45 cs after 20+ minutes, it doesnt matter what jungler i play.
All right, then let's go into some details. That MF played poorly, no question about it. Even her build choices are questionable, namely no boots against Blitz and not maxing either of her skills at lvl9. That being said, how did you fair? First things first we have to get something out of the way: "I get matched with lvl 30 players who never have played ranked." This is true. You just forgot to mention in your post that this lvl30 player who never played ranked before was the enemy Jax who vastly outperformed you with double CS and 12 kill participation instead of the 1 on you. You also had the single lowest gold in the match. Even that MF outfarmed you. At minute 12 you had the same amount of gold and from that point on she was leading. Sure an ADC needs more and usually gets more gold than a support jungler, but we just established that this MF was performing very poorly, yet you couldn't keep up with her. You placed a total of 4 wards in this match, all from trinkets, no red wards. 4 in 22 minutes. Everyone in the match outleveled you. Your team by 3 levels and the enemy team by 4. Also as mentioned you are tied with your top lane for the lowest kill participation with a single assist in 22 minutes and 14 kills on your team ( 7% ). ------------------------------- So is it your fault that MF was bad? No. Did you perform just as poorly? Yes. How did you reach gold 3 if you can place only 4 wards in 22 minutes? How is the matchmaking unfair if everyone in your team, including you has the same poor performance? And why do you call them trolls when they are not really worse than you? This ties back to the question of Ivern. Yes, he has the potential to win, but then again literally every champion does. He on the other hand has quite a weak early game and by his nature only performs well against junglers who rely on farm and who can't gank early. The enemy team is full of assassins and roamers and in lower ranks if you allow your enemy to freely gank your team and you can't even warn them by good wards, then your team will die a lot, that's how this works. If you had a jungler that could put some early game pressure on the enemy team, then they couldn't freely roam and destroy your teammates and at least some of your teammates would have a chance to perform well. Just take a step back, rewatch your match, check what you are doing each time an enemy ganks and what you could have done instead. Improve your warding and vision control. And most importantly, instead of hoping to get better teammates than the enemy and farming safely in your jungle, go out and help your team more before you write them down as trolls and feeders. Don't blame others and the matchmaking, improve yourself.
realKano23 (EUNE)
: Why do some people pick their champion in the very last second?
Maybe they wanted to dodge anyway and this way they don't have to log in again.
SinsanitY (EUW)
: Team based games are fine. You are confusing LoL's lack of proper punishment or deterrent for toxic players as me saying ALL team games fall under that bracket. To be more clear LoL is the only major one I know of where trolls or an AFK player can determine your experience, with little control over it and possible punishment if you yourself go afk, and just keep you in game having a miserable time for 30 plus minutes. It has a surrender vote yest, but how often do people all say yes. You may say quite a few, but I know you'd be lying.
That is a known weakness that comes from the combination of free to play and MOBA. FPS games for example tend to have shorter rounds, and pay-to-play games always cost some money for a banned player. If we want to make a full SWOT analysis of LoL i'm up for it, but we shouldn't just look at the Weaknesses and say that they determine everything. Riot jumped on one of the good Opportunities with TFT and quite a few of the Threats have been recently eliminated by things like HotS collapsing and so on (obviously there are still more). I'll leave the Strengths to you, you know a lot of them, you just might not want to list them. I rarely lie. And i don't usually have problem with surrender votes either, tho my mindset is all about learning what i can even if the match is not winnable, so i don't start votes often. Maybe if you are ready to throw in the towel faster then your experience differs a lot.
SinsanitY (EUW)
: Unfortunately due to the rise of Fortnite and streamers like Ninja who play it, LoL's only hook to keep people wanting to play this and climb is the pro league, but that has now started to get stale. League of Legends in many ways now is antiquated and quote honestly to expect players now to be in a game where one or two players can troll and hold you to ransom for 30 minutes of your time is a big ask. There's no way this game can keep up with the competition now of other online multiplayer E sports like games, where you can go and game and an afk player or troll etc doesn't really effect your fun.
League has quite a few problems, but you seem to hold the misconception that being a team-based game is one of them. By your reasoning games like SC2, AOE2 or 1v1 modes in FPS games and CCGs should rule over all e-sports, but that doesn't seem to be true.
: Matchmaking is soooooo balanced
Or maybe, just maybe, don't pick full support Ivern jungle against full gank-oriented teams. Ivern is in a bad spot now and if you see the whole enemy team picking roamers and assassins (kass, lee, akali, zed, pantheon, twitch, kha, ahri, just to name a few from your matches today), you might want to consider either picking some weight and hard CC to protect your team or some damage of your own. Ivern basically has neither. Just consider the needs of your team a bit before you pick your champion. You don't seem to be maining neither jungle nor Ivern, so why did you start it in ranked when he is weak too?
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=QGh8Vdo0,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T21:44:05.047+0000) > > For example? Azir, Ornn, Gangplank, Swain, Viktor, Braum, Kalista, Kassadin (right before his visual rework),
All right, let's go down the list. Azir has owned the title of "No.1 strongest champion" when he had to be nerfed. Very long range, massive burst, ADC level sustained damage, mobility, teamfight changing ultimate and massive gank potential, all in AOE. Nothing could beat him between silver and pro league. Ornn has been nerfed because of the pros. He was a very safe pick and basically guaranteed a win for his team if the match lasted too long. He isn't gutted tho. He is a situational pick, but he still works well enough. GP: do you mean before or after rework? In both cases you will be wrong, but i don't know which one to explain. Swain again, pre or post rework? In this case post is more likely, so.. he was simply nerfed because he had insane lane harass and very good teamfight presence too. But i don't see how a champion with 51.41% winrate is "gutted". Viktor: His Klepto build was simply ridicculous. Pro teams couldn't handle it, solo queue couldn't handle it, flex couldn't handle it, so he had to be nerfed. Braum: yeah, he is in a bad spot now. Mostly due to a shifting meta, the pros and not just the nerfs he received a year ago. Nautilus, Rakan or even Pyke simply worked better as aftershock supports and aftershock is just really good still. Kalista is pretty much a design mistake. Her mechanics are interesting, unique and fun to use, but basically impossible to balance. At the top of her power she could basically kite anyone who didn't kill her instantly and she had a safer play style than basically every other ADC. Kassadin before his visual rework? You mean KassaWin? I wonder why he might have been gutted... It is true that Riot has used the "gut now, find a rework later" tactics a few times before, but none of those cases were for no good reason. And the champions you listed had way better reasons to be nerfed than Riven ever did.
: Bans in league of legends
You are wrong. Change my mind. You see you first have to explain your precise position before you challenge people to a debate. Your opening statement doesn't do that at all and even your second post here is left quite vague. Terms like "really invests" can be interpreted a million different ways for example. Are you talking about people investing time or money? At what amount of time or money do you think people should be sure that they are not getting punished anymore? And to answer the only expressed part of your opinion: yes, it is completely fair to get permabanned for flaming. There are multiple reasons, but let's just stat with a simple one: Everyone here have signed a contract saying that we will behave in a manner that is appropriate around children aged 12. So if someone flames consistently then they are actually perma banned for breaking a legally binding contract. You are right that you are far from being the only one complaining about this, but the facts are simply not on your side. You can find the terms of the contract unfair and you are free to argue that Riot should change the age rating of it's game to 18+, but for that you'd have to make a convincing argument about how it could benefit the game and the company. And losing people who think that breaking contracts is acceptable is not a sign of a dying game or a bad strategy by the way.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=QGh8Vdo0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-19T17:59:06.525+0000) > > Riven is an interesting champion, because on the surface it seems like every trouble with her boils down to raw numbers or core design mistakes, but in reality it's mostly about the design direction Riot has choosen a while back. > > A bit of a background for my point of view: i've played Riven quite a lot back in season 2-3 but i dropped here soon after season 4 started simply because ever since then there are always far better champions to learn for any role she can play. Ever since then i only lost about 2-3 matches if the enemy team had a Riven in it, and that makes her the lowest winrate champion in my matches in the past 6 years. > > The explanation comes from a number of different factors. > > First of all, as i said, the design direction. Back around season 4 Riot completely adapted the idea of "buff strengths, nerf weaknesses" in order to create more distinct champions. Back in season 2 basically every melee bruiser was interchangable. It didn't matter which one you picked, they had similar styles, builds, strengths and weaknesses. This had to change obviously and it mostly worked too, but there are exceptions. Riven is pretty much one of them. > > Riot decided to make her all about well timed skills, burst and combos. To this end they lowered her base HP regen from one of the highest in game to the literall lowest in game. Meanwhile they lowered the shield duration but increased it's strength significantly. Overall, she is good against burst damage, pokes and short trades, but she can't heal back extended trades and consistent harass. > > This sounds good, but it pushed Riven into a very specific direction: **her strength in lane is very much decided by her opponent. If she has the advantage in a match up, she will take very little damage and deal a massive burst with low CD then back away, but if she is countered, then she is better off going afk or leaving the lane as soon as possible.** > > So if you main a champion that is countered by Riven, then you will basically have no chance to ever win the lane against her. At best you can minimize the losses you take, but even for that you have to abbandon the playstyle you like, which has been probably the reason you picked your main in the first place. > On the other hand if you have a bigger champion pool or you main something that counters Riven, then she will be the easiest opponent you could get. Chogath, Quinn, Jayce and Garen for example absolutely destroys her without giving her a chance even if the Riven main is several ranks higher. > > ----------------------------- > > In the end the reason why nerfing or buffing a few of her stats won't change people's oppinion about her is because her match up based nature remains. Conqueror turned some of these match-ups around, for example Pantheon is not ideal against her anymore, even tho he used to be one of her strongest counters (tho i didn't test the new version yet) and for example Poppy moved from being countered to countering Riven a while back. > > Riot holds back massive nerfs because Riven is already quite easy to beat in certain match ups and giving her more consistency in the form of making her weaker in her good match ups and a bit stronger when she gets countered would go against the main balancing principle Riot has held for years now. Riot's balancing principles? You do realize they have gutted champs for less, right?
: Riven is still busted, the "nerf" was worthless
Riven is an interesting champion, because on the surface it seems like every trouble with her boils down to raw numbers or core design mistakes, but in reality it's mostly about the design direction Riot has choosen a while back. A bit of a background for my point of view: i've played Riven quite a lot back in season 2-3 but i dropped here soon after season 4 started simply because ever since then there are always far better champions to learn for any role she can play. Ever since then i only lost about 2-3 matches if the enemy team had a Riven in it, and that makes her the lowest winrate champion in my matches in the past 6 years. The explanation comes from a number of different factors. First of all, as i said, the design direction. Back around season 4 Riot completely adapted the idea of "buff strengths, nerf weaknesses" in order to create more distinct champions. Back in season 2 basically every melee bruiser was interchangable. It didn't matter which one you picked, they had similar styles, builds, strengths and weaknesses. This had to change obviously and it mostly worked too, but there are exceptions. Riven is pretty much one of them. Riot decided to make her all about well timed skills, burst and combos. To this end they lowered her base HP regen from one of the highest in game to the literall lowest in game. Meanwhile they lowered the shield duration but increased it's strength significantly. Overall, she is good against burst damage, pokes and short trades, but she can't heal back extended trades and consistent harass. This sounds good, but it pushed Riven into a very specific direction: **her strength in lane is very much decided by her opponent. If she has the advantage in a match up, she will take very little damage and deal a massive burst with low CD then back away, but if she is countered, then she is better off going afk or leaving the lane as soon as possible.** So if you main a champion that is countered by Riven, then you will basically have no chance to ever win the lane against her. At best you can minimize the losses you take, but even for that you have to abbandon the playstyle you like, which has been probably the reason you picked your main in the first place. On the other hand if you have a bigger champion pool or you main something that counters Riven, then she will be the easiest opponent you could get. Chogath, Quinn, Jayce and Garen for example absolutely destroys her without giving her a chance even if the Riven main is several ranks higher. ----------------------------- In the end the reason why nerfing or buffing a few of her stats won't change people's oppinion about her is because her match up based nature remains. Conqueror turned some of these match-ups around, for example Pantheon is not ideal against her anymore, even tho he used to be one of her strongest counters (tho i didn't test the new version yet) and for example Poppy moved from being countered to countering Riven a while back. Riot holds back massive nerfs because Riven is already quite easy to beat in certain match ups and giving her more consistency in the form of making her weaker in her good match ups and a bit stronger when she gets countered would go against the main balancing principle Riot has held for years now.
ZzAngelzZ (EUW)
: Backdoor
There is neither "pro play" nor "noob play" in this sense. It's a legal option and both teams should keep it in mind. The "pro" and "noob" aspect is always in the execution. For example if you want to farm, you can just stand still and AA without interacting with your champion, which would be quite a noobish thing to do. Or you can actually control your champion to get last hits properly and harass/zone your opponent with skills and free AAs which would be what most people do. Then there is the pro version where also control the minion waves and cooldowns in a manner that will benefit your team the most in te macro game. Similarly you can face tank a tower and die 30 times trying to solo backdoor it with Braum. You can also backdoor a half tower with Ziggs for example with 1-2 AA hits and a W, or you can actually time your backdooring in coordination with your team to apply pressure on the enemy team in key moments in a macro game where they can't afford losing towers or nashors. It's all about the context and not the act itself.
: League of broken %%%%%%s and filthy premades. Enjoy lol in 2019!
And most leavers and AFKs are solo players, so i guess just fsck everyone...
: ap ashe banable?
Not bannable. Tho you can get the same CDR with normal AD Ashe as well without too much trouble, so that's not a real advantage. And the 3.5 sec stun only applies if you hit the target from across the map, so that's not an advantage either.
: Thanks for the very usefull info's and idea that some never cross my mind. Specially the rune part I guest I need to buy more rune pages bcause I only have 3 than can be edited aside from the basic other basic runes. Yes I just search the rune build in internet and some different builds I try to experiment the effects, wich is I dont know it has a big impact in the whole fame. Changing a rune build to make kayle strong in early is good idea and never try it. I really strugling in early if my lane enemy if malahzar zed etc.. ending up defending torrent not to break, cant rome too much to help team mates, tp back home to reset.cant do anything without help of jungler or someone to come .this is as kayle mid Also is it ok when looking for rank match up I always select the Mid primary and fill secondary. Then my teamate alwys said "omg kayle mid is stupid " or "dont pick kayle its very weak" "we already lost because the mid is kayle". I always choose mid because it is easier for me to roam to help or if I need help every one in map can come to me quickly than top or bottom. Thanks for giving me some tips.
As it has been mentioned before, Kayle is indeed a bit too weak at the moment. Her late game power is incredible, so to balance it out, she has a hard time early on. But Riot overtuned this early weakness a bit. Right now she is mostly picked to top against less aggressive champions. That being said, there are some things all the veterans who have been here for more than a few years will agree: First of all, play what you like to play. Be it a champion a role a game mode, whatever. Forcing people to play something they do not enjoy never works and in the end they won't even perform well there. You might still find a champion later on that you like in another role and you decide to learn that too, but forcing things from the outside is useless. And the second is that under plat basically everything works. You might need to put in a bit more effort into succeeding with Kayle than you would have to with a popular meta champion, but it is definitely not impossible. Third, the meta is a tricky thing. There are always popular champions and unpopular ones, but almost always there are some overlooked options too. High elo people will "discover" some "hidden OP" champions that were never weak, they just shifted out of the picture a while ago. Because of that it's always the best to think for yourself. There are always options in a match, we just tend to forget them. If you can't hold your lane, then just roam or ask your team to group up for objectives. There are tons of champions who usually get destroyed in the lane and still become a monster in skirmishes or teamfights. The "win the lane - win the game" catchphrase only works for certain champions. So keep your eyes open, be ready to accept valid criticism, but keep in mind that not everything is true just because it's said often. And most importantly, have fun!
: A friend of mine got a ban until 2133 is that considered a temporal ban? {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Sad he got in a small argument and he got banned unlucky Thanks a lot :)
All "perma bans" by Riot have a time limit. Everyone will get back their account within 3-400 years. At least as far as i know.
: Celebrating Birthday in League of Legends
: It was just the timing... it’s like releasing a film at the same time as something like a new Star Wars or marvel film, it’s guarenteed to flop... qyianna was released along side TFT so she ended up being sidelined, even her reveal got overshadowed by morde’s release and TFT’s addition to the pbe. So she just didn’t get the hype that other champions receive, which results in a champion that nobody really noticed being added (just goes to show what advertsing and bad timin can do to a champion)
To be fair, this fits her lore perfectly.
: Yes that is my problem the cs Im trying to improve it but. It depend in enemy lane situation. example Im getting harrased by in lane bytristana, fizz, diana, illanoi, I cant cs if I get close I die get killed by seconds. I try my E to last hit minions and W to dodge enemy, Q if they get close to me. But my mana quickly drian also my health. If Im get harrased my in 10mins. Or more I feel lost and cant do anything just to tower hug because my CS Is 25 and the enemy has 75 or more Sometimes I make my build in early game giving a sustain mana like 2dorans 1 corrup potion 2 rings before buying core item. If Im ahead Im not buying these item and building my core weapons. Is this wrong? Some players telling my build is troll or suck. But some times it works and we won. Sometime I have no I idea what to build the only thing I know is should I go AP or AD? with life steal AS crit? Onother problem is I dont know my strength and weaknesses. But I dont want to kill to much. I choose not to die than killing to much then died many times. Like 0/0/17 is better than 8/8/0 Destroying towers getting objectives helping in team fights.
Unfortunately i can't watch replays from you now, so i'll have to work with what i can, but there just might be enough information. So let's get Sejuani out of the way quickly, because that one is going to be shorter. First, some rune tips. Keep Resolve as her main tree because Aftershock is flat out the main reason why she is meta now. Aftershock+her passive gives her very nice initial defense each time she starts a fight. Overgrowth is also a must have and Bone Plating is a very strong all around option, even tho i really like Conditioning for long games. For now just stay with bone plating since it's more consistent. Jungle path: Junglers with AoE skills like Sejuani are also very strong because there is a very good strategy with them. At the start of the match, kill Blue+Red normally, then focus on farming the birds and the golems as much as you can. Just ignore the frog and the wolf, and gank when the birds and golems are still not ready. There is a lot to optimize, but with an occasional crab from the river you can reach lvl6 as fast as the solo laners do. ----------------------------------- Now the longer part, some theory crafting for Kayle. Take it as a guide on how to think about your plans rather than strict rules you must follow. I will focus on supporting your early game a bit more. First of all, the runes again. My guess is that you found the kleoptomancy runes on the net and copied them to see how they work. Kayle is a late game carry champion who has a hard time early on (a bit too hard in the current version, probably) but becomes one of the strongest later on when she gets her levels and items. Kleptomancy helps with the items quite a bit, but it assumes that you are already past that 70 minions / 10 minutes average quite a bit. So for now i suggest a different approach based on what you have said in your posts. You mentioned that your mana management needs a bit of working too, so there are multiple things you can try. One is to pick sorcery as the secondary rune tree and choose Manaflow Band there. Transcendence is also quite good in that tree, but Kayle can use Celerity very well and Scorch is a nice early game rune too. As a primary, you will probably want something that gives you a bit of early game sustain and there are two main options for that. Fleet Footwork in Precision. A standard combo here would be Fleet Footwork+Triumph+Alacrity+Coup de Grace. Pretty much the basic ADC picks. It gives you good stats, a bit of early game healing and very good scaling into the late game. The second one is Grasp of the Undying in Resolve. Combine it with Demolish, Bone Plating and Revitalize. This isn't the best for low hp champions like Kayle, but it does give you a lot of early game sustain and once you get out of laning phase, you will do fine either way. Alternatively, in Inspiration you can look up Glacial Augment instead of Kleptomancy. This would give your E a strong slow if you use it against champions once every few seconds, so they would have a bit harder time just walking over to you. --------------------------------- Now with items you have quite a lot of options, since Kayle is an AP/AD hybrid champion. You can basically go with anything form standard ADC to on-hit build to AP+AS, so you will have quite a bit of experimentation ahead of you. This also means that while her builds do have core items, Kayle herself does not, so you are pretty much free to adapt your plans until you have bought your 3rd item. I'll approach this again from the perspective of a stronger early game, both because that's where both you and Kayle could use some help and because late game builds need high farm and for the match to actually last long. Manamune {{item:3004}} is a very good item. It's components are quite cheap, an early Tear {{item:3070}} can help a lot with your mana management and once the item is completed or even upgraded to {{item:3042}} it becomes quite strong. Alternatively since Kayle benefits from AP well too, you also have the option to buy an early Catalyst {{item:3010}} and go for Rod of Ages {{item:3027}} . This item helps you with both HP and Mana and while it takes some time to get to full power, it is quite cost efficient. For attack speed Nashor's Tooth {{item:3115}} and Triforce {{item:3078}} are both very good items with cheap components and good utility. While Guinsoo {{item:3124}} is a naturally strong item for Kayle, i'd suggest you skip it until you become a bit more confident. For some sustain, Lifesteal is really good, probably Gunblade {{item:3146}} fits Kayle the most, but it only helps if you can fight back, so don't be afraid to go for some more unconventional items if that seems to be what you need. {{item:3053}} For example is a common top lane bruiser item with cheap components and a lot of sustain, especially against burst, plus a bit of added damage too. It also forms a decent combo with other items that give you HP. That should be enough for now, the post is already getting a bit too long. Again, this is not a step by step "you must build this" list. The other readers would take my head for such unconventional builds. Rather these are useful stuff you can look for when you need something and you are not sure where to start. I'll check back on the thread as long as you reply to me, so cya.
Cryptidian (EUNE)
: I miss being able to experiment with various Rune stats in the old system
There was no experimenting with the old runes either. 10-30 minutes of math after the patch notes were released told you everything.
FURRY V2 (EUNE)
: Just give mana to every champion. Being mana-less has no disadvantage, which is literally unacceptable.
Honestly, i'm afraid to see what happens when Riven gets to buy {{item:3004}} .
: I need help how to improve my game play
Improving is not about how many matches you play. It's all about finding the right things to look for. For example a quick look at your match history tells me right away that you'll need to improve your farm. For high elo the "standard" is 100 CS / 10 minute. As a new player that is obviously not your goal just yet, but you should practice getting at least 50-70 CS / 10 minute as a high priority. It is also important to know your strenghts and weaknesses and in general what kind of player you are. So i'll check back on later, but it would be interesting to see how you see yourself now. What do you think you are good at and why do you like the champions you lised for example? We can easily check your stats, so other details are more useful on the boards. :) Feel free to ask and don't worry. Everyone was horrible when we started.
: Be honest people, general question for everyone, what do u think?
Yes it is fair. And no, i have never been punished in this game. There are quite many reasons behind the fairness of this, so i will probably not go into all of them in one post. 1. If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, you will notice that this game is rated 12+. This means that children aged 12 are already allowed to play this game and every single one of us have legally signed a contract stating that we will behave in a way that is appropriate around children of that age. And banning people from accessing a service is a perfectly fair and legal way of dealing with people who break contracts. 2. You are allowed to chat, to respond, to defend yourself, and even rare outbursts of anger are tolerated too. You however seem to mistake defense with retaliation. If someone trolls, feeds or flames in your game and you flame back at him, then you are not defending yourself or honor or anything. You are just giving your enemy the satisfaction of showing that he got under your skin. 3. Because muting isn't helpful. A flamer or troll can't get me upset, so there is no point in muting them, but he can get my teammates upset and if they lose focus too, then i lose the match. For someone being as much against "stealing victory/rank/elo" as you are, this is a concept you must agree with. And let me address two common misconceptions that you too seem to believe: >and what they do all the time ? releasing skins, more and more, because they dont simply care about balance, Skins are made by artists and animators and it's just better for everyone if they are not the ones working on balance. And since these artists are already hired with fix salaries there is no point in not having them draw new skins. If anything if the skins become popular then Riot will have more money that they could potentially use to improve the game. >they love to banned so u can buy ur skins more than 1 time, a fact that u cannot change. Because its obvious. This is a common misconception but it can be refuted by basic economics and logic. Let's say that a server in a region has 10 million players. If Riot banned everyone _and_ everyone returned to buy the skins once again, that would still only be 10 million people who bought skins. LoL is a big game, but obviously not everyone plays it and there are people who can only play it in the future. Now go anywhere on the net, including this thread and look for the most common thing people call this community. "Toxic" will be high on the list and because of that a lot of people don't even try the game. No matter how big LoL is, the number of potential players who can still try it is always going to be bigger than the number of active players. This means that if Riot could get rid of the mark of toxicity, then they would get way more money than they ever could from returning banned players.
: Akali Ekko and Diana all are ap assassins.
Akali was originally a hybrid fighter/assassin. When she was first released i actually prefered to play her as mainly AD, because she was way more consistent with that build. Ekko was meant to be an assassin/bruiser, that's why Tank Ekko could become a thing at all. His base stats were very high, especially his damage, so he could build heavier items and not just full burst. Diana was originally designed to be an AP bruiser, which is still clear by her kit. She was released in the "release-rush" period of LoL when Riot churned out a new champion every two weeks. Riot famously had a formula for AD bruiser champions at the time: CC+gapclose+defense+ult. Look at Jarvan, Renekton, Xin, Riven, Fiora, Irelia, Lee, Wukong, Hecarim. Diana was designed when they wanted to make an AP champion in the same line. The exact fact that they all ended up as AP assassins is the clear indicator of the state of AP bruisers. They simply never had the items to support this play style, so all of them eventually shifted towards glass-cannon assassin builds.
: who needs ap bruiser items if literally every normal ap item is severly broken.
Balanced AP bruisers need them. That's why champions like Akali, Diana, Ekko, Sylas or even Ryze are in the state they are. They are always either overtuned or way too weak because they were supposed to be AP based fighters, but they have no items for this job.
: I just had a enemy teemo pulling a nubrac legit not knowing who nubrac is.
They probably heard about someone who copied nubrac, but never heard the name itself. Or they just watched thelolhounds' video about the legend of teemoXD.
: I mean yeah it's hard to learn to be good with any role to climb as fast as this guy but the point is support isn't as bad as a role as many people believe in fact it's probably the second best role in the game for climbing.
My personal estimate is that at least 90% of LoL players are micro-oriented and i'd argue that support is the most macro-based job in the game, even above jungle. Most people therefore think that it's impossible or extremely difficult to climb with support because their micro-based thinking and style will not help them at all on most supports. Pyke became so popular instantly because now anyone can claim to be a "support" while they are just playing a micro control assassin. Also in general most players who specialize in one role will say that another role is the most impactful. Top will say better jungle decides, jungle will say the same about mid. Mid will be sure it's up to the ADC and the ADC will swear that it's about who gets better support.
: Next time someone claims it's hard to climb on support show them this
It's hard to learn to be so good with support that climbing becomes easy.
Torkl (EUW)
: I really love people that one-trick and counterpick themselves 50% of their games
A while ago i managed to make one of those guys call Volibear OP because he couldn't deal with it at all. It feels really good. :)
: Suggested buffs to tank items to make tanks relevant again
We had this at least 3-4 times in the past. If Riot buffs the tank items, then Juggernauts and Fighters start abusing them. In the end tank champions will stay irrelevant and the meta gets broken. In the last "tank meta" we had tank Ekko, tank Fizz and Darius were destroying everything while only 1 or 2 actual tanks were even barely viable to play. Buffing tank items have always backfired. If you want to make tanks more relevant, then we have to make the overall damage in the game lower. There is just no point in trying to tank for teammates who die in less than a second anyway.
: why do people get banned when the mute button exists
>it's like you don't have to give your opinion, you don't have to tell people to try and stop dying You really don't have to give your opinion about anything, you just choose to do it. More to the point, you can get punished for talking because muting is mostly useless. If we are on the same team, I would need a mute option that makes your chat invisible to my other teammates right away, because you can't upset me, but if you get the others tilted, then we lose the game just the same. If you want muting to be a counter measure to talking, then give me the option to block you from reaching my teammates. Naturally that would be heavily abused by trolls, so we are stuck with punishments.
ShacoOrTaco (EUNE)
: This character reminds me something
JancevFTW (EUNE)
: Hashinshin
LoL has quite a few problems and some of the champions are flat out design mistakes, but the last time i've checked Hashinshin was not exactly the best at pointing out real problems. I don't usually watch his stuff, so if you want to discuss something a bit more specific, then i'll have to ask you to bring an example. In the meanwhile i can honestly say that there are dozens of youtubers/streamers who have a much better formed and solid overview of the game than he does.
: Pretty much Ranked MatchMaking in a NutShell 2019 Colorized :D
Hi, i just finished watching this match and it seems like you forgot to mention some minor details, so i'll list them if you don't mind. 1. You won this match, so it wasn't as unfair as you are trying to make it look. 2. That "silver" Fiora won 1v2 on top and got 2 towers +7 kills completely alone in less than 10 minutes. 3. You started demoralizing your team right from the first second and you never stopped that. 4. At minute 12, you were the only one in your team who was down in both kills and minions against their opponent. 5. It took you 22 minutes to leave mid lane far enough to see your side's bird camp. All things considered you had the weakest performance in your team even tho you had the highest rank in the match, so if anything you are giving us a clean example of how the current rating is no indicator of performance at all.
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Zanador

Level 148 (EUNE)
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