: What would you prefer [toxicity is a fake problem, nobody looks for real ones]
All right, let's go down the list: 1. False dichotomy: you can only pick either a toxic good teammate or a friendly bad one. There are toxic bad ones, which far outnumber the toxic good players and naturally there are friendly good players too and everyone would naturally choose the fourth one. 2. False equivalency: by your premise friendly equals bad player and toxic equals a good one. That is simply not the case, otherwise all of challenger and pro league would be constantly banned and the new player experience in Iron would be the best thing in the world. 3. False premise: your rank is not solely determined by your teammate. If you were right, then boosting would be impossible since duoing with a bad teammate would mean that you are heading to iron instead of whatever elo he paid you for. 4. Another False equivalence: your skill level is also not determined by your teammate in the long run, but rather the effort you put into improving. 5. And finally a Begging the question: "You are either want to win, or you want to lose." You are trying to use the premise of your argument as the conclusion. You apparently think that wanting to win justifies toxicity and you use it both as the starting point and the conclusion in a circular logic. At the end of the day, carrying one bad teammate is not a hard task, everyone here has done so before, including you, so you are just trying to use a dense package of logical fallacies to make cheap insults against anyone who does not sympathize with you right away.
: > [{quoted}](name=HusarzZagladyPL,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=o097p7Gt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-05T21:09:30.072+0000) > > You don't fight a juggernaut as a mele champion. > You fight them by kiting them. OK. Let me rephrase then... How do I farm as a melee when laning Garen?
Practice wave management a bit. Against Garen standing in the middle of your minions can be a good tool. If he tries to use E on you, he pushes the minions and you back out quickly and farm under your tower. Yeah, you take some damage, but that is pretty much unavoidable. The question is: will you benefit from him hitting you or not?
: it says to check my email but there is nothing there :\
Well, you applied, but the game is currently not live for the public. There were only two 5 days long test runs so far and as far as i know, there won't be more this year. Sometime "early 2020" there will be a longer beta run before the release, so that will be your next chance. As far as i've seen, the "check your e-mail" is basically the "not now" message. Once i got my pass i received an "approved" message on that site.
: Champion recommendation
Vayne might work against someone like Sion or maybe Ornn too, but i definitely wouldn't recommend her against Maokai and especially Malphite. In general, the Juggernaut class was designed to handle tanks. Garen, Darius, Mundo, Volibear, Yorick, Morde all have great tools for the job. Alternatively you could try mages with spammable spells like Ryze, Cassiopeia, Vladimir, Kennen or even a heavier build for Viktor and Swain. Gnar, Kled and Fiora can beat most of them too, but you might have a bad experience with them until you learn the fine details. For example i like to play Malphite against Fiora, because the threat of my all-in with ult is enough to keep her from using parry against my Q harass and i just wear her down, one hit at a time.
: Unfair punishement
You hit the zero tolerance list in this chat. That can land you an instant 14 days. By the way the behavior of other players are not considered when punishments are issued.
: How can i effectively use voice chat as a jungler?
As Spawner said: your plans. At the beginning ask your teammates about how well they think they can handle their opponents. Tell them if you are planning to camp or ignore a lane if nothing unexpected happens. Tell them if you want to gank a lane in the next 20-40 seconds, maybe they can set things up better for you or just warn you against it if the timing does not fit well. But in general, unless others are discussing something, it can be good to just say things along with pinging them. If you spotted a ward, the enemy jungle, mid roaming and so on. Sure, everyone should have good map awareness, but it can't hurt to double check things.
: How does the "grading" system even works?
Well, you are compared to other Malphite players of your server, so we can't tell what exactly you'd need. Maybe a bit better farm, but in general, AP Malphite players in the current meta can stack up quite a lot of kills, so it's hard to compete on that front.
: Don’t need to apologise, reply as and when you feel like it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me (I’ve had people reply to 9 months old comments, a few days is nothing). > This is the part you got wrong. It is a valuable aspect and it is definitely not a poor way of looking at the situation. It is a narrow scope and should be used as such: it's an integral, but small part of game balance, but it does not show the whole picture. But again in this case it’s better to look at the thing as a whole. Adc alone isn’t all that strong, and frankly there’s the argument that they could be weak Support is strong but took heavy hits recently and alone isn’t overpowered. Individually bot lane isn’t that strong, but as from holistic perspective they are broken and take up too much of the game... there’s alot of elements of them which are only a problem when they are viewed together, and often in game they are together... they lane together and they play together regardless of how they are playing. That’s what I’m trying to say, in balancing yes you tend to separate them, but that’s also why bot lane has been broken for so long.
It's an interesting topic that goes into the core of League's balance. The ADC, the support and the Bot lane each have their own reasons to be important and basically none of that comes from their power level. In the case of the ADC, it's main job that other classes can't usually replicate in a healthy way is it's constant DPS from a relatively safe distance and their ability to chip away at defended towers. Each time Riot tried to share these with other classes some kind of disaster happened (Ryze reworks). We had metas were only 2-3 ADCs were even viable and the only time when they were gone was when Riot basically screwed up the whole balance. So it's quite safe to conclude that as long as even one of them is playable, their importance is secured. Supports are in quite a peculiar position. Right now if a damage dealer champion can stay alive just a few seconds longer than it would on it's own, then it can often kill one or two more opponents. This became even more prominent with the power creep since season 6. To this Riot responded with general nerfs to the supports and not the average burst, which is personally not my favorite move from them. And then there is bot lane, which is basically all about the dragon. This one might be the most curious factors out of the three, because even 190 global gold was enough to cement the bot lane as the duo lane as probably the longest standing aspect of the meta, and now Riot made the dragon more important than ever. Apparently, for some reason Riot thinks that the Bot lane could use a bit more attention and focus.
: > Yeah, and Pyke is a very good example for an assassin that can kill the enemy ADC any time and with his R's passive turn the game, even if he had a bad start. And with the second part of your sentence you confirm everything i said: "With a half decent support..." that was exactly my point. If you bring a half decent support with you, then you will know that you'll have one, but if you play solo or your friend is not on bot lane with you, then once again you are much more dependent on your teammates as an ADC than any other role. But then a good enemy support can stop him... again I’m talking about bot being made of both of them not looking at any one role within bot, yes you are reliant on a good support to stay alive but if one support is better than the other then your bot lane is gonna feed, same with adc... if both are better you’ve lost the game already. That’s what I’m trying to tell you, I get you wherent trying to contradict me but you’ve focused on the adc, what they can and can’t do and their reliances... I’m trying to say that’s a poor way of looking at it, better to look at bot lane as an individual unit. And I’m not arguing that bot shouldn’t be the most important, just that it often feels like it’s the only one that matters... it’s too snowbally and once it does snowball you’ve gotta hope they are bad players or you will loose (and you shouldn’t ever have to rely on bad players to win).
Sorry i didn't reply sooner. >I’m trying to say that’s a poor way of looking at it, better to look at bot lane as an individual unit. This is the part you got wrong. It is a valuable aspect and it is definitely not a poor way of looking at the situation. It is a narrow scope and should be used as such: it's an integral, but small part of game balance, but it does not show the whole picture. In this conversation you represented the global / general game balance perspective well, which is a good way to anchor the theme to prevent it from spiraling out. But when you are saying that it's a poor idea to examine a part of the picture just because it doesn't tell the whole story, then you are making a serious mistake. Every tool has it's purpose and should be used for it.
Latarnia40 (EUNE)
: How do I win jungle and contest dragons when my botlane is behind?
Use the time on the loading to make a list of things and form a plan. First question: is your bot lane expected to win? If your team is up against a strong early match like Draven and Zyra, then no, your team is not expected to win. At best they are probably going to farm safely for a while, but the enemy will have free roam anyway. Two: can you gank the bot lane well? There are combinations where your ganks against bot are just not effective enough. If that's the case, then move to step three, if not, then gank as much as needed / you can afford and stay relevant. Three: Can your mid laner gank bot well? If yes, then they probably want to do it too, but some quick communication at the start should be enough. Help mid and mid will gank bot for you. Make sure that you maintain vision control on bot river. Four: If for some reason all three of the answers so far were negative, then check your top lane, because contesting the bot side is probably an uphill battle. Do you have a champion on top that can majorly screw up the enemy once the teamfights start? Then focus on top and the herald. Five: if all goes poorly and your team is expected to have a bad match up on every lane, then try to get your team to go for teamfights and group up. Maybe you all just got counter picked in the lanes but you still have a chance at team fights. Six: If still nothing is in your favor, then just sacrifice a goat. It can't hurt and you'll find enough salt to cook it anyway.
: RIOT GAMES IS LYING TO THE ENTIRE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS COMMUNITY !!!!!
I just love posts / videos like this. "I fed because i tilted, my team fed because they are dog s&&t". then proceeds to demonstrate this by showing a game where he fed the enemy twitch as a lucian and then that twitch proceeded to murder his team. Stellar argument. "Riot wants you to lose." Yeah? why? "well it's in the algorithm." But if out of 10 players in a match 5 wins and 5 loses, then how can they intentionally make people lose more than they win? "aLgorItHM" As a bonus for the video: Tilted flamer joins a match. His team proceeds to play poorly. Tilted Flamer has evolved into Surprised Pikachu.
: Wrong MMR in ranked
The positive side of this is that if you manage to climb with these match ups, then you will have a good chance to skip your promos entirely.
: But your falling into a common trap... yeah an adc might be vulnerable but bot lane isn’t just an adc it’s a support as well... and with a half decent support a fed adc can do way more than anyone else in the game. That’s what people don’t always get past... the issue has never been adc, it’s bot lane as a duo... in fact honestly it’s got a large part to do with the support more than the adc their ability to facilitate, protect, and get kills for the adc eliminates a lot of your argument. So I stand by what I said, the bot lane is the most important lane in the game by far entirely due to its duo nature (and dragon), not much anyone can do about it tbh
Again, you are correct. But if you check again carefully what i wrote, i never contradicted neither your first post nor this reply from you and i definitely didn't fall for that trap either. >But your falling into a common trap... yeah an adc might be vulnerable but bot lane isn’t just an adc it’s a support as well... and with a half decent support a fed adc can do way more than anyone else in the game. Yeah, and Pyke is a very good example for an assassin that can kill the enemy ADC any time and with his R's passive turn the game, even if he had a bad start. And with the second part of your sentence you confirm everything i said: "With a half decent support..." that was exactly my point. If you bring a half decent support with you, then you will know that you'll have one, but if you play solo or your friend is not on bot lane with you, then once again you are much more dependent on your teammates as an ADC than any other role. Way back at the start of season 2 when the meta started to settle in into a form that looks something similar to the others, my friends and i came up with a theory / way of viewing the meta that pretty much held true ever since: the botlane sets the power curve of the match. That's why the ADC fits there so well. Everyone else's power level is pretty much measured in whether or not they are strong enough to handle the bot laners. If an assassin can't kill either the support or the ADC, they the assassin is weak on that match. If the tank can't zone them or survive them long enough to initiate well, then the tank got too weak and so on. Their main job is to either get fed enough on kills or to just farm safely enough to still be able to deal with the bot laners. I can go on way too long into this, but i don't have the time now. But yeah, Bot lane is the most important area, i've been there when this got set into the meta and if anyone forgot it, then i'm afraid that it was Riot, or they just purposefully trying to tinker with it, even tho they are probably doing it in a wrong way. This just doesn't mean that a lone ADC can't get absolutely crushed by anyone else if the team doesn't want to cover for them.
: But it’s worse if the bot lane feeds... a top laner who dies only gives 300 gold, a bot laner is 450 gold... if both of them feed it’s 900 gold for both of them... a top laner would have to die 3 times for both lanes to be on equal footing. A light feeding bot lane is worth an inting top laner... hence why the issue while exists else where is massively present bot, assist gold is honestly broken. This isn’t even taking into account it’s easier for a top laner to play safe because it’s harder to dive bot and there’s no hook champions/most are melee and you can build tank without being useless.... and mid you’ve got wave clear to farm safely... so it’s also easier for a lost bot lane to continue dying than anywhere else Plus there’s 2 players, so twice as much chance for a bad player. Whatever way you look at it bot is more likely to snowball out of control than any other lane... that’s why it’s often better bot wins (unless you actually play bot... like you said confirmation bias... but if top, mid and junglers all feel this way it’s more than bias).
You are correct, but as someone who plays every role, i still think that there is a detail that gives credit to his point too: counters and reliance. Top, Jungle and Mid often feature champions that simply eat an ADC alive if they are left in a 1v1 even for a few seconds. And naturally, the ADC should try to avoid those situations and the team should protect the ADC as well, but without a premade you can't be sure that's going to happen. An ADC on bot might rack up 6-7 kills in laning in a good start, but quite a few champions will still kill them without much trouble. So while a fed bot lane will probably get more gold numerically than anyone else, a mage, fighter or assassin can still kill the ADC even in an item disadvantage. So in a lot of matches even a fed ADC is relying on their teammates to know their job while some other classes can pretty much perform their full potential on their own.
Nar7ia (EUW)
: > We all have those games where botlane just ints and you just can't do anything about it. This is why games are coinflip, you just pray you get normal botlane that won't be the one inting. Do you realize the same can be said about every lane, right? As an adc main I have games where my mid/top/jungler int hard and do less damage than my support, making the game basically 3/4v5. Worst thing is, its far more difficult to carry games as a squishy adc than it is from mid/top with champions like Syndra, Jax, Irelia etc.
I know that feeling. Top is feeding a Jax, Mid is feeding a Ryze, Jungle is feeding a blue Kayne and i'm just sitting on bot, wondering if it's too late to go back and buy a Doran's Lotion.
: tanks in this game are more assassins then any other assassin
I kind of agree with you, in a sense that i'd like to see the tanks to back to their roots and focus on CC and sustain with lower damage output. However to achieve this, the general damage output of every champion has to be adjusted / nerfed first. There are two key driving factors at work here: for one, the average damage output has increased by a lot since season 5 and two, the skill level of the playerbase keeps increasing over time. As a result we can use the CC a lot more efficiently now. For a clear example of this just look at Sejuani. Originally her ult had a 2 sec stun on lvl6, now it had to be nerfed to 1.25 sec. So if you want tanks to have a stronger focus on CC and weaker damage, then the average damage output of every champion has to be nerfed too. Bonus fun fact, if you want the single best depiction of how tanks moved towards damage output, then look no further than Kayle. Yeah, she was originally a tank, who mainly focused on aura items and who fought in the front line to maximize the utility of those auras (stark's fervor, soul shroud, aegis). Things have changed a little bit.
: There is no magical number that dictates skill level. You cannot define, nor can you measure skill, which is why a ranked system is impossible to be perfect. Skill is inconsistent, there are millions upon millions of variables that affect your skill. For example, what you've had to eat that day, how much sleep you have had, other things on your mind, hydration levels, atmosphere ect ect. And those are just a small list of the physical variables outside of the game. The game is an MMR system, we don't have to be told to know that. Back in season 1 and 2 it was literally a number system, an ELO system. Points go up when you win and down when you lose. That foundation is still there, but it's been significantly improved since and is masked behind a more rewarding system. Like I said, it's definitely not perfect, but it's the best and most accurate we have atm.
People also routinely confuse skill and performance. You have to go really high on the ladder for a player's performance to be very consistent and even then bad days happen (i'm looking at you G2). So converting a player's skill level into a number is a difficult task, but even when that is successful, there is absolutely no way to tell how well this player will perform in a single match.
: Not agreeing with OP's statement but there is a real stigma against women in competitive e sports (not from the public's perspective but coming from the people who manage pro teams) Simply put, pro teams are scared to recruit women because (to put it simply) relationships = drama I've heard of a bunch of aspiring pro female players rejected simply because of their gender It has already happened tho, I remember that one thresh girl that used to play in LCS, but she decided to retire early; i don't remember why And on the other hands you have make believe full female teams that aren't pro level at all but they just pick random plat - low diamond girl players and shove them into the pro scene as a publicity stunt which in terms just ridicules the female playerbase unjustly So the pro scene isn't entirely closed to female players but still, I can see how all that would be discouraging to aspiring players
A lot of it comes down to the old sailor's phrase: "women on the ship are bad luck / misfortune". Lock in 5-6 teenage boys into an apartment with a girl and at best the boys' performance will nosedive and at worst they will tear each other apart. And if someone tried to make a full women's team now, then they would, by definition narrow down their player-pool by not only skill and compatibility but another factor too. That's pretty much like fighting with one arm tied behind their backs. So yeah, women do have to fight even more stereotypes than men do if they want to become pro gamers (almost every pro outside of korea had to go through the "that's not even a real job, do something valuable with your life" to begin with), but quite frankly in a lot of cases there are very rational reasons behind teams not including girls.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=x00219F5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-28T15:38:59.663+0000) > > Or simply {{champion:99}} + {{champion:17}} + Ctrl+4. :) u forgot{{champion:117}}
A solid giggle should do the trick.
CJXander (EUNE)
: Tilt your enemies, starter pack!
Or simply {{champion:99}} + {{champion:17}} + Ctrl+4. :)
Zhnjpkaa (EUNE)
: Thoughts about matchmaking
Hi, i watched 2 of your recent matches where you played Leona with your premade friend, and if you want to get out of your current rating, then there are a couple of things you can do to achieve that. 1. Start warding. In both matches i checked you hardly used your trinket wards at all. In one you placed your second ward at 11th minute and in the other at 9th min and you waited for your third ward till the 14th min. 2. Improve your build. You keep buying {{item:3854}} for Leona even tho she scales better from AP. Why don't you change to {{item:3859}} ? 3. Improve your positioning. You tend to back away so far that you can't even reach your own ADC with your ult in case someone jumps onto him. You are either using your own teammate as a bait or you are just giving up lane control and those are not winning strategies. 4. Stop standing still. Similarly, you often stand still for anything between 5 seconds and 20 seconds at a time. I don't know if you have to do something IRL or you are typing or you are just trying to bait, but you can't stand still that much in this kind of game. 5. Synchronize your backing with the ADC. If you are not synced up then you can't push your advantage if you are ahead or you let your enemy get further ahead if you are at a disadvantage. 6. Coordinate with your teammates. Leona's main job is to mark and lock down targets for her team to attack, yet you kept using your ultimate at times and on targets that nobody could reach in your team. Even your premade friend couldn't react properly half of the time. Make sure that your teammates are at least in range and maybe try to ping your target first to give your team just a bit more time to get ready. That should be enough for now. If you have any questions, then feel free to ask.
Soulrk (EUNE)
: Leauge of legends rules?
A long time ago Riot tried to give us more detailed guide lines, but they pretty much had to stop that because to many players just wanted to look for loopholes in them. So they took the complete opposite approach and basically went for "be sportsmanlike and friendly, or at least neutral". Similarly for third party programs we only know that anything that _has the potential_ to give us an advantage in between the champ select lobby and the end game stats can be punished or any program that _has the potential_ to give us access or the look of skins and other things that are created by Riot. By this point some of us here have spent up to 8-10 years looking at the results of Riot's decisions, so we can usually agree in what is accepted and what is not, but there is no big book of law anywhere to be found. The volunteers of the boards do have a nice collection of relevant posts somewhere floating around, so if you look it up or ask them for it or general help, then that is probably the best you can find.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=5VRfcG9x,comment-id=0001000200010000,timestamp=2019-11-25T16:42:10.706+0000) > > The same goes for my post too, you just assume that 8+ years of having these discussions was not enough to think about this subject. > > For example you are saying that in that theoretical match everyone would have around 1900 MMR, so an assassin mid couldn't just free farm kills. Cool, that's how the system is trying to set up matches in the first place. "Team average MMR" just means that the system tries to get everyone from the same very narrow MMR range, but when it can't do that it slowly widens the search range all the while making sure that even when someone from a higher or lower MMR had to be grabbed for the match, the average wouldn't get out of balance. First off, I didn't assume anything but merely read and replied to your strawman reply. Secondly, if it worked the way you describe it would in most cases succeed, but that isn't the case, ever since season 3 you've been able to use external sites to track WR which is an integral part of the MMR system.., and that is always swinging wildly, because it simply tries to average the team's total MMR leading to what you say.., the higher MMR player farming the lower MMR player(s). Something that would be entirely eliminated in my original post, no matter how much you try to throw IFS, WHATS and BUTS in there.., and the reason it actually would work, is because it goes by actual game statistics instead of what you currently have.., easily manipulated wins and losses. The only reason I honestly can't be bothered doing an extensive metric listing, is because nothing from these boards ever gets the attention of Rioters, unless it's some lame joke or someone writting a big love story about how much they appreciate Riot and how they wish they could be their little minion.
>First off, I didn't assume anything but merely read and replied to your strawman reply. I never set up a strawman. As i said, your suggestion has been posted hundreds of times ever since the old forum opened up, so i simply knew the general direction of your next post and tried to skip a few steps, but apparently that's not what you want to do, so let's go for it. >Secondly, if it worked the way you describe it would in most cases succeed, but that isn't the case, ever since season 3 you've been able to use external sites to track WR which is an integral part of the MMR system.., and that is always swinging wildly, because it simply tries to average the team's total MMR leading to what you say.., the higher MMR player farming the lower MMR player(s). What i said is literally how every source describes the basic working of the matchmaking system. If you have any evidence on the contrary other than "but that isn't the case", then please share it. >Something that would be entirely eliminated in my original post, no matter how much you try to throw IFS, WHATS and BUTS in there.., and the reason it actually would work, is because it goes by actual game statistics instead of what you currently have.., easily manipulated wins and losses. And as i said, here we are at step two of the usual back and forth. Let's just go for a good recent example to illustrate my point: G2 vs SKT 4th game. Jankos on Olaf in teamfights ignored the crowd and went to zone out Faker's Qiyana in 1v1. His team could handle the rest in 4v4, so if Faker couldn't join the fights, then G2 would win. It was the correct strategy. Yet if we just check the numerical data, Jankos made a big mistake: by going for the zoning 1v1, he made sure that he would not get kills or assists from 4 opponents. He would also lose out on a lot of potential damage to enemy champions and similar positive stats. In the end he indeed had the second lowest KP in the match (including the losing side) and he also had the second most deaths too. Following raw numerical data often goes against the winning strategy and it can lead to stat hunting and possible tension among team members. That's why it doesn't matter how extensive is the list you make. And finally if you really want Riot to read it, you can simply write it to the NA boards. We are allowed to use our EU accounts to post there, so feel free to go for it if you want to.
Bonesaw (EUW)
: Look how Riot treats their players. Not everyone gets punished and loses Honor levels like you do!
So a bug occurred and Riot didn't do anything about it since it didn't matter? You got punished before the end of the season and your friend got punished after it. So regardless of your current honor levels and the bug, you lost your season reward and he didn't, just as you knew it would happen. Now both of you have almost 11 months left to get back to lvl2+ for the end of the next season. So thanks for reporting the bug, we all hope that Riot fixes it, but that's pretty much it. It's not broken, not unfair, not unequal, it's a bug and in your case it was completely inconsequential too. BTW: honor lvl4 does not require any "effort". If you just play and do nothing else, you get it.
: When you try to strawman your arguments for the most part, what other response would you expect other than: _move along and find something else to waste space on_. My fault was not detailing every little thing on the possible metric list, clearly.... Any bozo would able to see the list is incomplete but merely pointing in the direction of a balanced metric set for matching games. You wouldn't have a 1900 assassin midlaner farming a 1650 bot or toplane, because there wouldn't be a 1650 in said game for obvious reasons already outlined in that very same point. Same goes for objective score, it isn't on the list.., but again, the list isn't completed since that is irrelevant for the purpose of the debate.
The same goes for my post too, you just assume that 8+ years of having these discussions was not enough to think about this subject. For example you are saying that in that theoretical match everyone would have around 1900 MMR, so an assassin mid couldn't just free farm kills. Cool, that's how the system is trying to set up matches in the first place. "Team average MMR" just means that the system tries to get everyone from the same very narrow MMR range, but when it can't do that it slowly widens the search range all the while making sure that even when someone from a higher or lower MMR had to be grabbed for the match, the average wouldn't get out of balance. Sure, it could specifically make sure that if for example a higher MMR jungler had to be chosen for one team, then the same kind would be picked to the other too, but that could just lead to the scenario i described or to a _lot_ longer queue times when it comes to unpopular roles like Support. If the queue is already short on Supports and it was forced to always match them in same-MMR pairs, then we are writing a recipe to break the matchmaking completely. Your suggestion usually undergoes in steps of back and forth, but for the sake of simplicity i'll just mention the next two steps already: You know the performance scores in the client, right? That's basically what you are asking for. The system tries to evaluate the performance of the players based on the metrics it could collect. If you spend any time with it, you'll probably find that while it is "good enough" for a low impact system like the hextech rewards, it has too many flaws for such an important role as matchmaking. Riot's technology just doesn't seem to be ready for your suggestion to be implemented. But if you know how to improve it, then i'm sure that Riot would pay you quite well for your knowledge. And the third step is about soft data. You correctly pointed out that your suggestion can be fine tuned for a combination of any metric performance scores, but computers and programs at the moment simply can't handle soft data sufficiently enough, even tho those correlate with a player's skill level far better than any hard data. Zoning, decision making, communication, teamplay, shot calling, positioning, map control and so on are all key skills for players yet we literally have no way at the moment to collect data and assign numbers to it. From a hard data point of view a support who dies to save the carry is the same as a support who just dies due to bad positioning or just general wrong micro, yet one of them did their job and the other made a mistake. In the end i'm all for a better matchmaking. Regular forum viewers just saw your suggestion hundreds of times and nobody so far could come up with solutions. Obviously i couldn't either, i'm not better than anyone here. I'm not against your idea because i don't want a better system, but rather because the same thing has been brought up more than anyone here could count nobody had any idea on how to actually make it work. The chance to be the first to crack this case is still available to you.
: The solution is straight forward, but if it ever changes I wouldn't expect it to happen until season 19 given Riots approach to things. Match players based on the following criteria: 1. Roles selected (This means role vs role so you won't see a 1900 mmr vs 1650 mmr just because it's team-wide mmr). 2. Average Cs/min based on the recent 20 games played. 3. Average KD based on the recent 20 games played. 4. Average KP based on the recent 20 games played. 5. For support ward uptime (or ward count) based on the recent 20 games played. This should (in theory) ensure each and every role gets a balanced match, meaning it truly will be the better performing player at the time that wins, and not as is currently the case.., 1 side losing because someone decided to troll a game, since that will just dump you down and eventually be unable to ruin other players time, by matching you with and against other idiots.
This is a very old idea and it is still as flawed as it has been almost a decade ago. 1. Role vs role the MMRs get matched, so 1900 vs 1900 on mid, but the assassin will free farm the 1650 mmr bot lane. And the common issues like players only knowing how to play 1-2 champion and don't know what to do if those get banned still remain. 2. Yeah, on mid a melee assassin gets outfarmed by a Heimer, so he clearly deserves a lower rating. 3. Jayce top is performing poorly if he only has a 3.5 KDA while a tank can carry with a 2.0. How are we matching them? 4. Again, this can screw immobile mages or certain roles and champions. A Nasus or Yorick can destroy 6-7 towers in one game with a relatively low KP score, but who cares? They should have picked something that can roam. 5. Yeah, once you get the warding item, just place all wards in the base every time you back and then place them again once you are on the field for a bit of free boosting, because that is a clearly superior strategy, so who would be concerned about the map going dark each time you back? So no, even in theory this suggestion would not improve anything and at best it would just change the root cause of the problems without fixing anything.
Bl4cky99 (EUW)
: When will the Season Rewards ship?
The deadline is 5th of december. Everyone should get their rewards until then, if you didn't, then after than point you will be able to contact the support on the matter.
Dr Birb (EUW)
: Dude TL;DR destroying support role... Is not encouraging for non support players to play supports....
But destroying the _real_ support role can be. If you get autofilled and then just don't give a f&&& about your job, just go for selfish build, then the new item changes won't affect you at all. Pyke going full assassin, Yuumi, Brand, Vel'koz going full mage and Senna going full ADC without buying the support item at all for example. Sure, you and your team will have fewer wards and worse map control, but if the enemy team has a real support who bought the support item too, then you have a default advantage over them in combat now. This is exactly what happened when the ADCs were nerfed into oblivion. If you picked a Heimer or Pantheon to bot instead of an ADC, then sure, your team will have a harder time at objectives or fighting tanks, but you gain a massive combat advantage that you can snowball into victory. My theory is that it is probably better to just ditch these items and run a full kill-lane against anyone who tries to use them. Sure, support players will suffer and the meta will lose a few years of progress, but maybe after a few more attempts like these, Riot will finally learn their lesson. tl;dr: if the Supports are destroyed, then the autofilled players on their full on assassins and mages will have an easier time dealing with them.
Shamose (EUW)
: > Supports play like they're supposed to play. Not stealing cs. So explain to me how you like supports having to farm and take kills to get more gold now that their support item doesn't give them anything beyond the first 1000 gold?
I'm taking a few days off League so i haven't tested the new things yet, but i have the feeling that between Pyke, Yuumi, Senna and now the item changes, Riot is trying to get non-support players into the support position. On one hand, this would obviously make sense for the most autofilled role. On the other hand, from what i've seen and heard, the current events seem to mirror the last time Riot tried to tamper with the bot lane: the ADC changes. Just like now, the idea sounded good on paper, at least for those who didn't experience the last few similar attempts years ago: make unconventional picks viable on the "Bot role". And they did just that, the unconventional picks became viable but at the cost of every single Marksman champion. What's happening now seems to be similar, but with the players instead of the champions: ADC, Assassin and Mage players will now have a better time if they get autofilled than ever before, but the real Support mains have to pay the price for it.
: Riot, you know the saying... If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Are you trying to indicate that it wasn't broken?
Gryndall (EUNE)
: Why Why Vilemaw?
Well, you will be able to find her in the card game...
Morrhen (EUW)
: 1) As explained, telling them about a mute has two uses. One informing them to just stop writing since they're muted in your chat. Second being as bait to keep flaming you and thus getting them reported by you later. Assuming you tell them about the mute and don't mute them. (Which honestly works only for people who have saintly patience and thick hide) 2) Yes, it's a competetive game. Yes, it has a social aspect too. But let's be honest here. Totally honest. On average, player on the other side doesn't really care about you. Or in worse cases, they start to behave in a toxic way. But, if 3 people are reporting you, while you did absolutely nothing wrong, won't do much against fair trial of Riot support. Who can reevaluate your punishment if you directly reach out to them. 3) Premade reports can't hurt you, if their reports are false. I'm pretty sure that Riot pays more attention to premade reports, since they're easy way to falsely report someone.
Your reasoning is a bit flawed. Telling someone that you are planning to mute them is objectively a bad idea. "Mute and report" is simply better. For one, telling someone that you muted them hardly ever shuts them up, so your first version is quite rare, and you don't actually have to see what a flamers said for him to be punishable, so you don't need to "fake and bait" the muting. If you tell someone that he is muted, then at best nothing will change and at worst, he might decide to switch to trolling/feeding/afk instead of flaming and so further lowering your chances of winning.
EutDesu (EUW)
: Riot did it again, removing Twisted treeline
I don't know about EUW, but on EUNE TT collapsed years ago. Even bronze vs challenger matches happened, because there were no one else in the queue at the time. So i'm not even sure if Riot is going to lose players because of it. I mean, there are probably some, but i don't remember ever hearing about anyone in the past few years who only played TT and no other modes. Still, the revealing of the new games in development cast this decision into a new light: Riot probably wants to put more resources into the new games and compared to the potential of those, TT only showed stagnation and decline. Personally i still think that Riot were never really ready to make the necessary steps to make TT work in the first place, since champions that were designed for 5v5 would need more than some minor item changes to be balanced in 3v3, but that's another story. In the end, if Riot channels the resources they save by shutting down TT into their new games, then they will almost certainly gain more new players than they could lose over TT.
SucharekK (EUNE)
: Yeah, maybe the second point is the case, but they are still playing games, so I don't think so.
The first punishment is a chat restriction, so the troll could have got that. Leaving is handled by the leaver buster and once or twice a season is allowed, so he either got nothing if it was a very rare thing for him or he probably got low priority queue. Neither one of those punishments will stop them from playing and also there is no way for us to tell if they got them. A case can be made about the system's lack of transparency or other problems, but it's seriously a 9 years old can of worms and you should only open it at your own risk.
SucharekK (EUNE)
: Being toxic vs ruining the game
Just two quick notes: 1. One report is enough. The current system checks each report, so the enemy team doesn't have to report anyone if you did. 2. You only get a notification of someone getting punished after your report in a very low percentage of cases. Quite simply, dozens of your reports could have ended in punishments without you getting a single notification.
DELDE115 (EUW)
: [NEW CHAMPION] Aphelios the weapon of the faithful (HE IS A LUNARI!!!)
I have a question to anyone more knowledgeable in the matter: Aphelios was named after the point of orbit where the planet is farthest away from the sun. So my question is: should the P and H be pronounced separately in his name (AP-Helion) or does it naturally merge into an "F" like "PH" sometimes does?
: Who beats Quinn Top?
My favorite is {{champion:62}} against her. Yeah, you have to play it safe on the early levels and don't worry about having a low CS, because at one point you will just hit her with E-AA-Q and take 70% of her HP instantly and your opponent will regret picking her. {{champion:54}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:83}} can work, but Quinn will still be annoying as heck. In general if you find something on top that "sticks out" from the crowd like Quinn, then don't be afraid to pick something unconventional of your own. Quinn is specifically played on top and not mid or bot because she can't handle those match ups quite well, so go for a {{champion:238}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:69}} or even an {{champion:103}} or {{champion:1}} and see for yourself if Quinn likes them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GEqIUrK6,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-10T16:55:00.736+0000) > > I didn't check op.gg, because you are not a new player who started a few weeks ago, so please stop acting like one. op.gg will tell me a couple of things, like how you didn't adjust your runes or your build to fit your match up (e.g. armor runes against heimer) and you tried to push the basic build in a situation where it clearly didn't work. > > But it doesn't tell me a lot of key things that only you or a replay could provide: > How did you spend your time before the first wave met on mid? Did you clear the towers Heimer was placing or did you just let him get an advantage right away? Why didn't you start with Q or max it when you were up against static defenses and not a mobile opponent? Why did you pick corrupting potion instead of Doran's ring, when extended farming is a better option for you than trying to trade early on in this match up? How did you die once every 3 minutes against an immobile pusher with a mid range mage? Did the enemy jungler gank? Did yours? Did you try to roam? How did you communicate with your team? Why did you say that a 5/2/6 Lucian with basically perfect CS was not good? What did he do that made him bad? Did you ask Cho for a lane swap at the start? His champion is strong against Heimer and you are decent against Fiora if you play carefully. How well did you dodge? How long did the laning last? > > Just to list a few. > I obviously admit that i don't have enough info. How could i have enough if you are refusing to talk and only communicate in amateurish insults? > Oh, and please don't tell me that you think that an analyst is the same as a coach. Those are two completely different talents and jobs, even their names are different. > > You came here claiming that Heimer has absolutely no counter play, yet you never explained why high elo players don't abuse him in every match. You refused to listen to anyone or engage in constructive discussion. And you have also raised the white flag of those who can't defend their point: ad hominem. > > In the end i admit mistakes when i realize them: you were right and i did assume at least one more thing: that you are here to improve. I was wrong, sorry. There you are again with your absolute arrogance. Do you even have a life? Who the %%%% posts an essay on an online board full well knowing that the person it is aimed at won't read it. Your narcissism must be strong af for you to need to write that despite this.
I know that you do not read anything in this thread. But i'm not writing out of arrogance, but rather hope. Maybe not today and not here, but i hope that eventually you'll read something that will help you become better. Bye.
CJXander (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=I0Hg1QiE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-11T13:04:30.728+0000) > > Ahm, which one of your teammates trolled? 3 of them seem to have consistently awful stats. You are right, and the system should be improved, but your example also shows quite clearly why it's hard to make such a system fool proof. If the performance of a troll is on the level of 40% of the team things can get complicated. Lux, if you check the screenshot, he declared he will "troll", but he changed his mind because i wasn't reacting to him trying to deny my CS or dying in tower without doing anything. That's a rare breed of stupid player, thinking he's punishing me in any way for getting his own account jeopardized xD.
I could figure it out due to the length of the blurred club name. My point is simply that if the troll's performance is not even worse than the team's average, then detection must be very tricky. Personally, i think that ideally, even one death with the intention of hurting your team should be punishable, i just wonder how the performance of this Lux could be detected if he didn't declare his intention. Either way, you do have my respect for not giving in to threats and trolls.
Synk1904 (EUW)
: The Honor system and the Player behaviour system need to be changed NOW!
Cases like yours have led to the current system. As you mentioned, a lot of factors contributed to your reaction. Losing finals, offline events and maybe some recent experience in other matches too. This Malphite could have gone through something very similar, and just as you snapped out of character due to something you would have ignored otherwise, he maybe did the same. Context can be very important, but by it's nature it's messy. That's why real legal systems in the world are complicated and slow. There were lots of similar conversations ever since the first forum got opened, and in the end, the only realistic system that treated everyone equally seemed to be one that is based on the idea of ignoring context, because in the end everyone is responsible for their own actions.
CJXander (EUNE)
: Griefers and the report system in a nutshell
Ahm, which one of your teammates trolled? 3 of them seem to have consistently awful stats. You are right, and the system should be improved, but your example also shows quite clearly why it's hard to make such a system fool proof. If the performance of a troll is on the level of 40% of the team things can get complicated.
GilxeN (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=ff9fkPIn,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T12:22:20.923+0000) > > Not at all. I was never under honor 2, reached honor 5 every time so far and i spend about a third of my tokens from each event on keys. I still have 35 chests i can't open yet. Seems u are a fishy liar, impossible, I get equally keys and chests every 7 days, I am out of keys and chests, well still got 2 keys left, but chests in queue.
I have a counter proposal in kind: that you are just a lucky bastard. :) Even with honor 5 i don't get more than 1 key each week so i can't use up all the chests i got before i reached honor 5.
GilxeN (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kawaii Asumi,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=ff9fkPIn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-10T19:04:25.330+0000) > > Opposite here xd That means u have level 0 honor eksdee.
Not at all. I was never under honor 2, reached honor 5 every time so far and i spend about a third of my tokens from each event on keys. I still have 35 chests i can't open yet.
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Oof... thats a fine roast. where can I get the sauce?
No roasting here, good sir. I was trying to build a pyramid. :D
JustTits (EUNE)
: The fact that you guys wasted precious hours of your lifes by watching other players playing an unbalanced game makes me question humanity.
The fact that you wasted precious minutes of your life commenting on people making threads about people watching players playing an unbalanced game makes me question humanity.
: Do something with this stupid autofill
If you lose due to auto fill, then the one who got filled was not skilled enough in that role. That's literally up to skill.
: I agree with you riot should honestly just remove the autofill system so we can play the roles we want. But alas riot just keeps making new skins and has almost completely forgotten about fixing their broken ass game, I have been in countless games where the whole team was autofilled and it infuriates me because i'm losing my god damn lp, promos and rank. Just because of that stupid autofill system, glitches and the minion blocks etc. I hope this game dies like every other game does because I'm so done with their bullshit updates. You'd think they would listen to the community more and take our criticism more seriously because of how popular this game has become but they keep feeding us with the usual crap. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
In those countless games where the whole team was autofilled, why didn't you all just trade roles? Filling has been a part of this game ever since there is a meta. If you want to get rid of auto fill, then start playing every role and spread the idea among the players too. If you want to main 1 or 2 roles, then autofill is inevitable.
: Wait... In True Damage
Ironic, since none of his abilities deal true damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=GEqIUrK6,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-09T21:27:00.386+0000) > > Out of the two of us, you are the one not reading. I've told you twice already that my answers obviously won't be precise until you give us some information. It took you 7 posts to say that you were on mid and you still didn't mention what champion you played or what your main is or anything. Those are the bare minimum. A link to the match history would be useful but if you link the whole replay and ask for it, then i could even break down the whole game for you. > > This is your third time when you try to invalidate my suggestion by refusing to give up any information and then blaming that on me. That's not how anything works. > Finally, the only thing i assumed all along was that you and the heimer player were roughly on the same skill level. What you thought were assumptions are in reality plans described in very broad strokes, because that's the best possible thing i can give from the zero information you provided. However you saying that 'i had absolutely no counter play" is an assumption. You did have, you just didn't know what it is. Then look me up on op.gg instead of making besserwisser comments online you conceited twit. Do you even realize what nonsense you are saying? You are admitting not having enough info to comment and yet you comment on and on and on. Like one of those analysts that knows everything better yet no team takes them on as coach...
I didn't check op.gg, because you are not a new player who started a few weeks ago, so please stop acting like one. op.gg will tell me a couple of things, like how you didn't adjust your runes or your build to fit your match up (e.g. armor runes against heimer) and you tried to push the basic build in a situation where it clearly didn't work. But it doesn't tell me a lot of key things that only you or a replay could provide: How did you spend your time before the first wave met on mid? Did you clear the towers Heimer was placing or did you just let him get an advantage right away? Why didn't you start with Q or max it when you were up against static defenses and not a mobile opponent? Why did you pick corrupting potion instead of Doran's ring, when extended farming is a better option for you than trying to trade early on in this match up? How did you die once every 3 minutes against an immobile pusher with a mid range mage? Did the enemy jungler gank? Did yours? Did you try to roam? How did you communicate with your team? Why did you say that a 5/2/6 Lucian with basically perfect CS was not good? What did he do that made him bad? Did you ask Cho for a lane swap at the start? His champion is strong against Heimer and you are decent against Fiora if you play carefully. How well did you dodge? How long did the laning last? Just to list a few. I obviously admit that i don't have enough info. How could i have enough if you are refusing to talk and only communicate in amateurish insults? Oh, and please don't tell me that you think that an analyst is the same as a coach. Those are two completely different talents and jobs, even their names are different. You came here claiming that Heimer has absolutely no counter play, yet you never explained why high elo players don't abuse him in every match. You refused to listen to anyone or engage in constructive discussion. And you have also raised the white flag of those who can't defend their point: ad hominem. In the end i admit mistakes when i realize them: you were right and i did assume at least one more thing: that you are here to improve. I was wrong, sorry.
: Funplus was a way better team than all the teams they fought until now, we need to be realistic. They deserve that crushing win although G2 deserves some respect too.
FPX deserved the trophy, that's clear. I just think that G2 could have put up way more fight if they played on the level they did last week against SKT.
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Zanador

Level 158 (EUNE)
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