: Yeah, why nerf zed. I mean he only has a 52.77% winrate while also having a 11.63% pickrate. Thats totally ok, right? Sarcasm aside, why would you want to duell a tank as zed? Sejuani is op? In what season are you stuck?
you must be kidding me..obviously he has a 52.77% wr on a 11.63 pr because the mains-otps pick him..and you have to duel someone to win when half games are full meta abusing and 2-3 champs are full tanks...and sejuani was meta before, she got nerfed and unplayable many patches ago and in the lasts patches she got buffed again 2-3 times
Rioter Comments
: man, we're telling you that in the long run, giving a large enough sample size, how good/bad your teammates are won't matter anymore, they will even out. if a bazillion games with soraka adc are played worldwide, and the same amount of games are played by with lucian adc, who do you think it has the highest winrate? if a bazillion games are played it won't matter how the rest of the team performed in those singular games, at the end of all that you will have a winrate that will reflect the power of the champion used. is it clear now?
firstly how can someone compare adc soraka with adc lucian and secondly this neeko meta was up for about a week xd
: no shit you can't predict one singular game based on champions statics, what are we trying to explain to you is that statistics are used to determine winrate / pickrate / banrate and those are the main factors that are accountable for a champion status in short words, given an appropriate sample size and pick rate, if champ X has a too high of a winrate, he will be considered as too strong and nerfed. nobody but you is talking about singular games, we are talking in bigger scale here
in which we conclude again that it s inaccurate because the winrate of a champ hasnt to do only with its kit and stats..alright ty
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: I honestly think it is easier and more useful to explain rocket science to Charlie Brown than maths to the original poster.
then go and study rocket science to use your lovable maths there..in this game maths dont matter a lot
: again, learn how statistics works, the math behind them, study some probability theory perhaps, your sample size of 1 is meaningless you can't use statistics to predict the outcome of one match why would you get that idea?
you are trying to tell me that statistics matter the most while im telling you that it s a helping factor for some calculations but in this games it doesnt count a lot because there are a lot of things which determine a victory and u cant correctly predict each one of them in each game
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: If you are so firmly against statistical facts, why don't you prove us wrong by playing 100 rounds of Neeko ADC and 100 rounds of Sejuani ADC. Obviously you should win more with Sejuani ADC, if you luckily get good matchups or suddenly get better players in your team, right?
statistically i will get almost the same amount of bad-good players in 100 games neeko and in 100 games seju so matchmaking wont matter a lot in this comparison..what will matter the most will be the champ's balance difference and my personal skills with each champ and yeah theoritically i will have more victories with seju because she is more broken than neeko and she can stand in the meta better than her
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics
Lmao..then the team which has the best stats should automatically win..no need to join games and getting tired..statictics is a thing but it s not the most important part of the game
AiFted (EUW)
: the problem is not her onhit damage to champions but the damage to structures. winrate has something to do with champion balance, it's fine if you have a ~60% winrate with champions you have 50-100+ games on but for people that play neeko for 10 games to have a winrate of almost 60% is absurd, she obviously fits into the meta very well and shuts down other champions. i don't know if she deserves a nerf only because of that ,or maybe a counter of her needs some buffs, but considering her getting constantly such results in many roles maybe she is the problem. Imo she needs a nerf to her towerdamage atleast
if the problem is the dmg to towers then thats the easiest problem and it can be solved easily af...also 60% winrate in 10 games means that u have won 6/10 games..thats not something special to worry about and neeko isnt that hard to play even for someone who tries her
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: Stats are just a lie and are influenced by Trump, Putin and RNG. Jokes aside, win rate is the only important stat in the whole game. It tells you how often people win - and winning is the point of ranked. If a champ wins obviously too often, something needs to be nerfed.
Not really because there are many things which can determine the outcome of a game apart from the balance of the champion like matchmaking, champion's skillcap, your experience and skills with that champion , luck etc.
: It's Viktor top all over again, except this it's solely down to the champion this time with Neeko. Since Viktor top was exploitable because he was able to bully top laners at a range and take Klepto for maximum money making, plus Iceborn synergised with him well. But with Neeko it's now that her W on hit is just so much more reliable than her Q which almost requires her to land an empowered E to get the whole Q off so why bother with her Q?
This neeko cant obviously get compared with that viktor ..they are 2 different things
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/499895693490520064/555134473226944525/unknown.png Neeko "ADC"'s win rate around the World in Dia+. The highest win rate bot laner with any kind of meaningful pick rate. if a champ can reach 58% win rate in Diamond, it is broken beyond belief.
dunno why ppl keep relying so hard on the winrates since they are inaccurate as anyone can pick one champion or you can easily meet feeders or good players etc...whats even more important than her win rate is her average kda and even more important than the average kda is her gameplay..how good or how bad she can stand in the lane-game. The fact that in most of the games she can get a good peeling support or cc supp to spam the lane and escape the early game flawlessly making her op in the late game as expected doesnt mean that she is broken..for example if vayne was about to get treated the same way she would have 70%+ win rate
Infernape (EUW)
: Yes because having a 54-57% win rate top lane with a high pick rate was totally balanced.
yeah because the win rate has to do only with the champ and not with the division, your teammates, your enemies etc.
Rioter Comments
: The whole point is that she can’t farm safely... it’s nothing about winning lane range is a massive in lane tool, even without fighting farming from ranged instantly makes a weak early game become a manageable one, especially as kayle can kite quite easily with Q and W. This isn’t even considering how much range affects top lane... remembrance viktor, another weak early game, taken top he becomes a decently strong early game as he can harass and abuse the enemy laner as well as abuse klepto. If kayle gets ranged at 6 she instantly becomes safer and can even bully melee match ups. That’s why 11 is her first major power spike, because range is a massive thing and is what turns her online, it’s also one of the issues with old kayle (she had to be kept weak top lane in order to prevent her from being another viktor, that made her weaker across the board)
How can viktor get compared with kayle? His q + aa deals triple damage than her q especially if he has sheen..his e deals almost double damage than her e..his w is a cc skill and in general he was abusing armor not to get oneshoted..on the other hand im not expecting to see any tank kayles out there
Hansiman (EUW)
: Not all champions work in all aspects of the game, from low elo to the pro scene. Shen is a good example of a champion who's built around teamplay that's honestly seen more on the higher ends of the ladder to the pro scene, but lacking on low elo. You can't make every champion be viable everywhere on the ladder. --- Still, the champion has been out for under a day. People don't know how to play her yet, nor how to play against her. It's way too early to judge, because tomorrow the community may suddenly think she's insanely OP in all stages of the ladder.
I dont point out that there are champs who are played more in high elo than low elo but the fact that it s easier for a kayle player or nasus player for example to succeed in high elo because there is better communication and you can say to your teammates to defend in the whole early game so you can gain your power spike and snowball the fights..but in low elo this is 90% impossible to happen And i dont see any insane skillcap on this champion so that she needs days or weeks to be mastered so her gameplay will be almost the same and facing her in the lane is a pretty easy thing based on her kit till the 11th lvl.
Hansiman (EUW)
: Not all champions should scale the same way. Kayle has the potential to be quite insane come lategame, but that should still come at a significant trade-off. She needs to have a period of struggle before reaching her potential, otherwise the champion would be absolutely insane. Right now she's just released. It'll honestly take at least a week before we start seeing the actual power she currently has, because people need time to learn to play as her, and against her.
What im trying to say is that she obviously needs the trade-off but it takes too long for her and many times the outcome of the game will have been decided..especially in soloq where there is no communication to play strategically like players in competitive scene would do..and giving her only range at 6 lvl isnt something so serious to worry about..she will just have the potential to avoid some trades in order to farm..her good power spike will start again at lvl 11 with the flaming arrows
: That’s how hypercarries are meant to work. And her E is pretty good for laning, same way as kass. It’s basically another kass and you’ve gotta play her the same way. And the range is at 11 not 6 so she can’t safe farm or harass melee match ups... she’s meant to be weak laning giving her range during laning makes her a lot stronger. Riot where correct to place it at 11 where she is out of laning.
Having a perma range at level 6 doesnt mean anything...old kayle had about perma range at level 1..if she goes mid she will lose almost every matchup against ap burst mage even if she has range...if she goes top she can lose every matchup against 1. fighters because she hasnt any escape potential and many fighters have engage potential 2. tanks because they will build mr first and kayle needs about 2-3 items to start melting them..+ her only good trade skill which was her r now changed and u cant use it easily to win a trade...although if she had her previous r then she would get pentakill in every fight after 16 lvl but i believe that there are 2 ways to make her playable in lane.. 1. what i said about reverting 6 and 11 lvl passive or 2. giving her the old r till lvl 11 and then giving her the new r after lvl 16
Hansiman (EUW)
: > Her late game is op but her early game is pretty weak. That's the intended trade-off. She's a late game hypercarry, but it comes at the cost of having a weak early game.
Yeah but most of the champions who have weak early usually start snowballing at level 6 (zed) or they have some kind of stacks (veig, nasus)..It wont matter for her late game if the score is about 10/30 at level 11;p
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