DELDE115 (EUW)
: I havent played the new Yorick (cause I dont have a PBE account) which means I cant give a solid opinion, however, Yorick isnt the only army summoner in League, there is also Malzahar. I think Riot has kept Yorick´s passive down due to Malzahar. When Riot updated the mages, Malzahar was tag as the void creature summoning champion. I think Riot screwed up big time, and I know they are aware of the screw up. Malz may be the guy with the voidling army, but giving him the opportunity to summon 5 to 6 voidlings that can last a while is extremely ridiculous. That said, I think this is why Riot "dumbed down" Yorick´s passive. After seeing how ridiculous Malzahar´s summoning voilding army ability is, putting the same type of ability on a passive with no cooldown is even worse (on paper). ___ Maybe Riot can buff the passive for mid to late game (ie. increase the number of mistwalkers by 1 every 4 levels up to a cap) that way we can see an actualy army (making Yorick fit better with the theme) and give him a bit more relevance in-game. ___ I believe its better to release a weak champion, rather than releasing a broken champion. That way Riot can identify what needs some tweaking to better suit the champions play style, rather then nerfing every ability to the ground and keeping in there.
Yeah I also thought about Malzahar and his voidlings, and the fact that there can be more of them than walkers. It's sad really, with the new Malz you can experience that army feeling (like with the old on URF) cause you have absolut control on summoning them then all you have to manage is choosing their target at making them spawn more. I think this kind of gameplay would better fit Yorick but as you mentioned it falls too close to the new Malzahar.
: But I feel like that would limit a couple of things you can do with the maiden... by having her spawn ghouls when she spawns gives you a way to bypass your weakness in an emergency (which an ultimate should do) and will allow you to ult in one lane then go to the other. And there is another snitch about your idea, the whole limit system is a lot more complex than I think you realise. It isn't just the ghouls she spawns with, the increased ghoul limit is split between yorick and the maiden... yorick can still only spawn 4 himself but the maiden can spawn her own mist walkers when she is near graves, that's the whole charm of the maiden... she isn't just some beefed up ghoul she is a second yorick, she lasts till killed, has no leash range and will create her own army without you. That's what makes your idea no an option, don't get me wrong it's a good idea but to do so you have to sacrifice the best part of the maiden, her independence. So that's why the limit should be kept how it is, because while it does make yorick on his own less impressive it increases the shenanigans you can pull of with the maiden which transforms that ult from just another summon when your in a fight to a very strategical choice about where you want the maiden and her army.
Yes, I think you're right. But. The other main thing I wrote as a problem is not just the number of ghouls at a given time but the number of way you can summon them so how many ghouls you could have overall in a game. Some kind of an alternative way would feel nice (something which interacts with the death theme) like for example you could gather a bunch of followers by killing X number of units (like bard gathers his little spirit thingies from the chimes) and these even weaker ghouls/ mini mistwalkers would follow you (adding to the shepherd theme also) and only step in action when you use your E, and they would decay after a few seconds (making the ability useful even when you dont have regular mistwalkers) And yeah this would make Yorick even more of a "prepare before figthing" champ but also would give him some additional power that he can bring with himself from lane when roaming for example (as the maiden and the walkers won't follow you going out from a lane).
: But then with the maiden it's too many ghouls... this isn't a matter of balance or theme, it's the fact that the game can handle that many ghouls. I've tested it out before (all for one with yorick is a lag fest at best and at worst not everyone gets through the fight still in the game). The game has always been designed to be able to run on low spec computers, when upgrading the game their main concern is keeping it within the same specs... having yorick spawn too many ghouls would mean that lower spec computers wouldn't be able to handle it, the specs for the game would go up because of one champion which is hardly fair for the hundreds of thousands of players no longer being able to play because of yorick So it stays at 9, at the very most 10 would be the maximum that something like yorick can spawn. I understand it's disappointing but yorick can't physically spawn any more ghouls than he already is... simple as that. And he was never meant to be able to suddenly spawn an army... it's supposed to be a gradual thing where you slowly but surely increase in numbers (that's the thing about zombie apocalypses, they don't start out massive... like any plague they start small, just a handful of infected, but those infected infect more and over the course of weeks or months you have a hoard... yorick should work in the same way).... So like the zombie apocalypse yorick should snowball, he should start in a lane with nothing and by the time he gets noticed he has raised an army (a small army but an army by league's definition). Suddenly having an army appear out of nowhere isn't something the army of the undead should do, that's an army of demons... the undead need dead first. So thematically it works, the ult is more of an emergency supply but yorick behaves exactly how he should... and it makes sense lore wise as well, the ghouls aren't summoned like his old version did, mist walkers are corpses which have been infected by the black mist (the black mist being like a pool of souls, it's a ton of them but they mix into each other so the bit that goes into the walkers are no longer just one soul nor are they conscious, just a clump of parts of souls)... but for yorick to infect corpses with black mist he needs to have corpses, that's where your suggestion to have yorick spawn random graves isn't thematic, because those graves are the corpses slain in battle not something yorick spawns on a whim. So this yorick fits thematically, lore wise, is balanced in the size if the army, and won't make people dc... he is good the way he is (yes his ability to fight without ghouls or ult is suspect but that's intended, the best way to stop a zombie apocalypse is to cut it off while it's small, so people can take out yorick while he is building steam (cause I can assure you not much is stopping him when he has his full army out)).
I like the way you think but you've misunderstood me. I would like to see an increased number of ghouls without the Maiden and when you spawn her that shouldn't increase the limit further instead should help you summon ghouls faster. So yeah as you mentioned the ever growing army is his theme and so the amount of aviable mistwalkers should increase throught the game to the point when you can summon the same amount without your Maiden as you could with her. And she would be still useful as she helps you repopulate your army faster (also the very important dmg bonus if you hit the same target)
: Yorick can have 8 ghouls plus a maiden... this is up from 3 plus a revenant... as far as armies go it's a massive improvement. Not to mention yorick will hold the record for the most summonerable minions in the game (so long as you don't count immobile turrets like zyra plants), plus is able to maintain them a heck of a lot longer (he can theoretically maintain all 9 of his summons indefinitely so long as they don't die and he stays near them (or has the maiden stay with them)). As far as armies go he is the best in the game You also have to remember there is a limit yorick needs to be able to hit his limit without killing some computers (I would love a yorick which can spawn a literal army but that would make it a nightmare for most players), so in terms of summons this is roughly the limit (tell you what though, if you want to see this computer killing limit in action pick him in all for one, even old yorick could manage to drop people's fps to 0 in that mode). So he is the most undead army league is ever gonna manage. And he isn't a teamfighter, like you said he just can't manage without the graves... but riot have already said this in his reveal. Yorick won't be able to teamfight without set up, with set up he can but that isn't his goal. His goal is split push, you spawn 9 things in a side lane and just take a tower while people are busy... he isn't the only champion who struggles in teamfights but is great at split pushing, and like them he should be using that.
I'm ashamed to admit but I haven't noticed that with the maiden I can have 8 mistwalkers. Maybe because the ifght was too intense or I had no graves nearby... or they just died so quickly I had no time to even notice their presence. But I think if the game can manage 8 mistwalkers in total then it wouldn't be a problem to increase the number of aviable ghouls when there is no Maiden. Most of the times I felt like the mistwalkers are some fine addition to Yorick's kit but nothing more when in FACT he supposed to be all about ghouls, a shepherd of souls. This is my main concern that the whole ghoul system is weak if you don't have your ultimate :/
: yorick fan without any ranked yorick games and no yorick games in the near past whatsoever. Well if people like you, are yorick fans. then you have your answer to why they remade him
I really like the champion, sorry if in your opinion it's the equivalent of playing the shit out of it on ranked.
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