TheHammy (EUNE)
: ***
For one, I don't blame everyone. You'd have known if you played the matches I was in. The Sona in game 3 flash-ulted the enemy Leona, took the kill, and when she died, she blamed me for "not attacking", when their ADC (A Lucian), focused me and killed me. I never blamed Teemo for taking TP. He didn't even have TP, he had ignite. In game 2, the entire team yelled at me for my terrible jungle skills, a role they made me choose when I'm an adc main. I even told then in the lobby that I'm not a good jungler, and what I got was "we dont care, you'll do it." Teemo yelled at me for taking tp as a midlane Gangplank, then when I went mid, he told me to %%%% off to toplane, so whose blaming who? Secondly, requesting that OBVIOUSLY toxic people be reported is toxic, but if they weren't toxic, I wouldn't request MEMBERS OF THE SAME TEAM to report them. CLEARLY, I asked them to remove the toxic problem, because let's face it, who want's toxic people in a relaxed %%%%ing game. Thirdly, I've calmed my swearing down significantly. I barely ever swear in game, and when I do, it's because I'm getting heated. if people can't handle a "%%%%" or "shit" in a game, then that's THEIR problem And finally, I'm toxic because people flame me for things they do and blame me for them? Is that what you're saying? Have you ever played with me? I sit there, quiet as %%%% until someone flames me, then I just mute and report them. If they continue to piss me off, i.e, stealing kills and then blaming me for feeding, that's when I get pissed off. If Riot wanted a toxic-less environment, why the %%%% do they have a chat in the first place? What constitutes "flaming"? To me, I did nothing wrong except play a bunch of games with a bunch of %%%%ing idiots who think they can get away with anything (RIGHTLY %%%%ING SO), but when the person who got heated in the past gets flamed and tries to tell them where they've made mistakes or whatever, he's perma-banned. No wonder League's gone down the shitter. With a community full of over-sensitive babies or outright children who get away with telling others to commit suicide and LAUGHING about it, the company who pretty much just leeches money lets them do it, but as soon as someone drops an F bomb, he's signed his own death warrant. It's %%%%ed.
Rioter Comments
: Deserved, you chat too much and most of it is negativity and flaming. The main thing is that they confirmed that not using the chat maked you unbannable so every silent troll knows they are safe.
"You chat too much." Oh, and there was me thinking that the game has a chat function for a reason. So, what, I'm not allowed to chat to people while I play? Why have a chat function at all then?
: > [{quoted}](name=ABeautifulDuwang,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=N53gJb6E,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-08T18:00:59.251+0000) > > What really pisses me off about this is the fact you compared it to actual stalking. well it was your analogy, so, you got pissed off by your own false example ... seems legit :)
It wasn't my analogy at all, did you read? I played a match where a member of my own team did nothing but follow my character and get me killed, before him and his friend flamed ME for him trolling.
: > [{quoted}](name=ABeautifulDuwang,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=N53gJb6E,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-09-07T18:33:56.677+0000) > > So, after two games of constant flame and trolling, and you're telling me to behave like a "decent human being". Kay then. Next time someone follows you around, making sure you get killed and then flaming you for it, let's see how long you stay "decent" for. falsely equating two different things does not help you, dude ... if someone was following me around in REAL LIFE then this means premaditation, means that I am actively the target, it means that specific people want to harm me and it is VASTLY DIFFERENT from TOTAL STRANGERS, whom you will NEVER play with again, just misbehave or troll or flame **in a GAME**. when you find yourself not being able to behave like a decent person, then you are most probably not having fun playing, **so DO SOMETHING ELSE, until you calm down** ... playing LoL is not obligatory you know ... :p
Yeah, I know it's not obligitory, but that's exactly what I do. If I get heated AFTER a game, I just stop playing. I BARELY ever get pissed before a game, and if I do, I don't take it out on my team-mates. What really pisses me off about this is the fact you compared it to actual stalking. No, it's nothing like that. Have you ever played with a team who actively trolled like that and got heated? Probably. Did you get banned for it? Probably not. Also, you're saying that I "falsely equated" 2 different things. Where? You COMPLETELY misunderstood my response to that comment.
Estti379 (EUW)
: >"so how can reformed players ever even use the chat without the fear of being perma-banned" "By simply not displaying any kind of negative behavior you will avoid getting banned." How do you do an omelette? By simply breaking some eggs open, stir them up and heating them in a pan. How do you walk a dog? By simply putting him in a leash and walk with him outside. How do you turn on a PC? By simply pressing the ON/OFF button. Do you perceive all of that as sarcasm? It is possible that you did, and I can understand why you did. Still, it wasn't meant to be sarcasm and it was meant as an answer, which are on point, to the questions posed. Same goes for the answer that the riot support gave you. ________________ >Why is it that as soon as someone who is clearly FAR more toxic than me PROBABLY got away with it, while me, a guy who was trying to snap him out of his rage, gets the full brunt of Riot's banhammer PURELY because of my past exploits where I'd flame non-stop? Sooo, it would make more sense to ban that one guy who was toxic in one match, but has no history at all of being toxic, while at the same time, let the other guy, which actually has a past and recent history of toxic behaviour, to go unpunished? Naturally, we don't know if that Yasuo has such a history or not. Chances are, we won't even know if he actually got punished or not. But either way, only the recent games matter when being judged by the system. ________________ Anyway, let's talk technicalities. When riot mentions stuff of the likes of "it takes around 3 months to drop a punishment tier", they are talking about averages. It differs alot from player to player. A player who doesn't play often, will need a bit more than just 3 months. It's actually the number of games which matter when dropping tiers, not really the time since the last punishment. A player who doesn't use chat at all will need way more games than a player who still uses chat and isn't flagged as toxic in those matches. A player who still keeps being flagged as toxic occasionally, will take way longer to drop tiers, if at all. It is actually possible to get stuck permanently in a punishment tier. For that to happen, the player needs to be toxic occasionally, so that the system doesn't think he deserves to drop a tier while at the same time not being toxic in enough matches for the system to give him a punishment. _______________ And here some tips on how to avoid being toxic: I'm guessing that you are someone who ends up always "answering back". By that I mean, that you do end up in endless flame wars because you always reply back to someone who is flaming you, and that flamer might do exactly the same. And it keeps escalating and escalating and excavating. Maybe you are someone who keeps pointing out over and over again a specific mistake that someone is doing. Something of the likes: "Leona, start using your ult to start fights" and 7 minutes later "WTF, Leona, that was a perfect time to ult them. Start fight with your %%%%ing ult!!!" and somewhat later "When will you ever learn that your ult is meant to start fights???" For both those cases I have just this to say: if you reply at all, just do it once. Don't ever repeat yourself. Don't ever try to counter someone's defense. Think about the example with that Leona. Telling her once how to use her ult is fine(well, depends on how you do it). Telling her that one or more times after it, becomes useless. I mean, if she didn't get the memo from the first time, how can one expect that she will change because you tell her the same thing again? Anything you repeat is a waste of time and has very low returns, and, depending on what you say and on how you word it, could end up being just toxic. As for the first example, usually, those kind of endless flame wars become just a stupid mud sling contest. And the one's participating in it usually don't even notice that they are in one unless it is too late. That's why it is better to try to get in the habit of not even participating at all, to be the one who leaves the mud sling contest before it even has started. Thus, just reply back once. If they reply to you again, just ignore it. You are in a match anyway, there are more important things to do besides typing^^ I actually had once a reformed player who said something of the likes: "What is more likely to help me win a match: write a complain about my botlane or getting one extra CS?" Try giving that mentality a try, it could work on you, too. Then there is what and how you write it. One piece of information: people who are toxic tend to meet the most toxic behaviour. This is because neutral/positive players don't engage with people who are toxic (thus it doesn't escalate) and because they tend to not "provoke" toxic behaviour themselves. They usually speak in a non-provocative way, thus, the responses they get are very likely to be neutral or positive. You get a drastically different reaction from people when you say both of those sentences: "Leona, you are the one who has to start fights. Just ult someone who is out of position, we will follow up." "Oh god, this Leona. Does never start a fight. You do have an ult, right? RIGHT?????!!!!" The underlying message is almost the same. The expected results are exactly the same in both. Yet, just one of the two is likely to yield the expected result, while the other will just end up backfiring and is likely to start a mud sling contest. A rule of thumb is, avoid any messages that blame someone else for anything at all. "We got ganked because X did/didn't Y" "We died because X didn't stun" "They got baron because X was not here/didn't TP" That usually does more harm than good. Another thing, it is a great idea to avoid stuff of the likes of "X reported/ X muted". It is useless, the only effect that it has is to stir up more negative reactions, and, in the case of report calling, it IS actually considered to be toxic behaviour. EDIT: I wrote all of this before reading your edit. I was about to write how bad that it actually is to "boss" people around, and scrapped it because I found it a moot point. But in your case, it actually is relevant, seeing your third game chatlogs. Avoid going: Lee Gank Gank NOW But try instead: They are ahead, we need a gank to turn the pressure The minions are almost always frozen at our tower, you should be able to get a successful gank here
Here's a few responses to your post; 1) In the example of a Leona using her ult. I don't turn on them that quickly, if at all if they're not the person who draws first blood. What I mean is I often provide critisism like "hey, leo, could you help in teamfights?" or "Build tanky, it's gonna help out in teamfights". You even see it in the Yasuo match where I give a first time Zed player pointers on how to use Zed well. Usually, that's enough to give them a little push in the right direction, but if they were to respond with "STFU NOOB" like alot of people do, that's when I get abit antsy. In the last example of the Lee gank. I was top against someone who countered me. I think I was playing as Renekton or something. Anyway, point is, I asked for ganks earlier. he was part of a premade team. It was him and his 2 friends, a botlane support and Chogath mid. He literally did nothing but gank his friend's lane, DESPITE them winning. All they did was give abuse to me, who was "feeding" because I never got any ganks, while he fed off a winning lane. Now, usually when I play jungle, I give help to the lane that needs a bit of help. In the Yasuo game, I was a Yi who ganked bot, because Bot was getting their ass kicked. This Yasuo did nothing but flame me. If you read the log, I even warned him that their Jungler, a Warwick, was camping in top, so I told him to be careful. What I got in response was him, blaming me for his death. I was at Red and he was under tower. No WAY could I have helped him, even if I tried. My comment about him "leaving me to die" was well founded. We were both at Red (He tried to steal it), so I took it. WW jumps out at me and he RUNS away. Doesn't even try. He was literally right next to me. I'm not the best jungler, but I try. 2) I often tell them that their reported often to get them to stop, or just simply mute ME if I'm being difficult. Half the time, I don't even bother because they often stop. One time, I did that and later the same game, me and this other guy apologized for getting heated at each other and actually ended up friending each other at the end. 3) The Punishment tier apparently doesn't exist. Riot said themselves during the Ticket chain I have. They said that there is infact NO timed factor, but rather how many games you can play without wanting to snap your keyboard in half after some pre-teen tells you to drink bleach and you have to be tilted for the rest of the game, even after muting them. They also said that flaming can mean anything, from constructive criticism to outright threats. ANYTHING and everything can be seen as offensive and toxic. Again, one of my examples was from a match I played ages ago where I compared Shyvana to Eragon and said that the movie was garbage. That got me a chat restriction. Casually making fun of my own %%%%-ups like forgetting the jungler's knife warranted a 2 WEEK SUSPENSION. and 4) The reason I'm mad isn't because I don't think I was flaming. I know I was. The reason I'm pissed is because Riot says one thing and does another. They said that they didn't want a "prison island" scenario, and that's exactly what they've caused. i would say that atleast 70% of my games are filled with people like that Yasuo and Anivia, because they don't care. They know that once their bullshit gets them perma-banned. They'll just make another account and do it all again, but to reformed players like myself, we don't WANT games like that. Some of my best games were with players who were just chilled out and really just talked in the chat about random shit when they'd died. Nobody got heated and everyone just had a good ole time. The difference between the Yasuo game and my 3rd chatlog is 6 months of play, with barely a word spoken besides the Anivia game. In the yasuo match, the random chatlogs saying that "he's broken" is directed at a first time Zed player. The Yugioh references was directed at the enemy GP, who challenged Zed to a duel. The only issue with that game was when Yasuo started being an asshole because I wouldn't gank his winning lane and then proceeded to blame me, while I was trying to help our LOSING botlane. Zed, a first time player, never ONCE asked for a gank against GP, nor did Bot ask for a gank, and they sure as hell didn't yell at me when I went to their lanes and helped them.
i3IackCat (EUW)
: Then send your Chatlogs if youre so sure that it isnt remotely offensive. Otherwise youre one of hundreds, that talk like they did nothing wrong, without providing proof.
What's that going to solve? Are YOU going to show them to Riot? Are YOU going to unban my account? Of course you're not. Why would I show evidence of my ALREADY admitted flaming? I never said that I didn't flame at all. I SAID that a 2 Week Suspension after 6 MONTHS of being a non-flamer is harsh, and that Riot have done nothing about it.
: > [{quoted}](name=ABeautifulDuwang,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=N53gJb6E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-04T18:09:47.414+0000) > > Ok, so, a few days ago my account was suspended due to "toxic behavior" for two weeks. Now, my last suspension was back in March. I remember reading somewhere that punishment tiers are rescinded after 3 Months well, you read wrong and hopefully now you know better ... what the Rioter told you is the only way for your punishment levels to drop and the only tip is this : **"behave like a decent human being"** simple like that ...
So, after two games of constant flame and trolling, and you're telling me to behave like a "decent human being". Kay then. Next time someone follows you around, making sure you get killed and then flaming you for it, let's see how long you stay "decent" for.
House x33 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ABeautifulDuwang,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=N53gJb6E,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-05T15:12:31.263+0000) > > Clearly, it does. Something even remotely offensive is considered valid by the system. Say I'm playing with a friend and he messes up and, despite us being friends, I say "GG idiot". Another player can see that as abuse and ban me. I could say the dumbest shit, but if I swear or say anything remotely offensive, it's my ass. So talk on discord, problem solved.
My pc is literally too garbage to run both League and Discord/Skype, otherwise, I'd use them. Shit, I can barely handle teamfights without my FPS dropping to <8 Fps.
Magneset (EUW)
: How do they say one thing and do another? You can in fact work your punishments away, through A LONG TIME. You dont work it down by not saying a word or just saying "GG WP". The system will detect if you go tons of game showing absolutely 0 negativity. Then your punishment level will eventually drop. Also as they say "by not being negative you avoid getting banned" So they are in fact saying what they do.
But before the two games in question, I hadn't done shit and actually befriended people on the opposite teams that I played against. I remained quiet while other team members flamed each other. I didn't once use the chat in a negative way for 6 MONTHS, then, all of a sudden, after getting heated at 2 games back to back, it's back to Prison Island I go. That's the reason I'm pissed. I was a great teammate and enemy player for THAT long, but as soon as I slipped up, I get what's essentially a stay of execution.
Magneset (EUW)
: Just goes to show you have something to hide. :)
Why should I post my chat logs when you've already made up your mind? What's it going to solve? %%%% all. Sure, I admit, I was toxic, ofcourse I was, but that doesn't change the fact that Riot says one thing and does another. They say that people can work their punishments back. Clearly, that's bullshit. When you call them out on it, they ignore you.
Magneset (EUW)
: No its not. Also i asked for the chat logs earlier. You still didnt provide.
I ask for alot of things, and I don't get them either.
: You got two weeks after only six months mate. That in of itself is crazy. I've seen people complain about getting permabanned almost a year after their 14 suspension. > ASKING a player to stop being a baby Out of the whole of English language, you really couldn't have worded it any better? Not being toxic is the easiest thing in League. Just don't be a jerk. Anything you have to say can be said without a negative attitude attached. And 99% of all communication that is relevant to the game can be conversed through pings, so barely have any reason to type period. PS: As for players who refuse to group, group around them, unless doing so will lose you the game immediately. Take that Yasuo for example. He's stuck top, your team is trying to siege mid. Go siege top with him, all of you. If he leaves top just because you came there, that is intentional trolling and is 100% reportable. It's not a tactic that will work all the time, but it is one possible way of dealing with people who believe splitpushing is the end-all-be-all.
Or, y'know, having him flame the team and call us useless while he attempts to 5V1 an entire team while talking about how awesome he is. Credit where it's due, he did really well, but that doesn't excuse his behavior. As for my own, it takes ALOT for me to start raging and I'm not one to let things sit either. I asked this guy for a solid 15-20 minutes to but his differences with me aside for just a minute and help the team push. (He was pissed at me for not ganking his winning lane) Ofcourse I got heated that a guy, a good player, was being a huge child about it and wouldn't do it out of spite, so, I called him out on it. Again, that's why I'm so pissed. Why is it that as soon as someone who is clearly FAR more toxic than me PROBABLY got away with it, while me, a guy who was trying to snap him out of his rage, gets the full brunt of Riot's banhammer PURELY because of my past exploits where I'd flame non-stop? What the real kicker is that the same douchehorse that I contacted on the support ticket basically said that there's no going back and rescinding to the lower tier punishments, despite being a reformed character, so chances are, I'll probably be banned
Magneset (EUW)
: A report doesnt matter if its not considered valid by the system.
Clearly, it does. Something even remotely offensive is considered valid by the system. Say I'm playing with a friend and he messes up and, despite us being friends, I say "GG idiot". Another player can see that as abuse and ban me. I could say the dumbest shit, but if I swear or say anything remotely offensive, it's my ass.
: That's not how it works. Every chat restriction, and the 14 day suspension function a dual purpose. On one end, they punish negative behavior. On the other, they serve as an escalating warning of what is to come, should you refuse to reform. This holds true to the 14 day suspension more then all the rest. It is Riot's ultimatum: _"Reform, or you're not welcome anymore."_ It is the last straw. You either stop being toxic 100%, or you lose your account.
That's the point, dude. I had TWO bad games and got a little heated, sure, happens to everyone now and again, but for the most part, I don't say shit during matches, but all of a sudden, after two games IN 6 %%%%ING MONTHS, they decide it's time to give me a two week suspension, after asking a toxic Yasuo to stop being a %%%% and help out, and an Anivia, who literally trolled me by following me around at the behest of her premade friend, who was supporting me in Botlane. A support that, might I add, flamed ME for farming. I honestly try to just play the game and enjoy it, but now I can't for fear that Riot has the power to decide if me ASKING a player to stop being a baby and work as part of the team he's FLAMING is considered "toxic" and have me banned.
: > his buddy steps in and I get double reported And? Multiple reports from the same game don't increase the chance of you getting punished. One report is enough. > I said it's %%%%ed that an apparently "support specialist" gives that as a form of help. A sarcastic answer isn't helping, it just proves that Riot literally doesn't care. But they weren't sarcastic at all. They gave you an accurate answer. That's actually how you stay out of trouble, believe it or not.
That actually, believe it or not, is sarcastic. That's like telling someone to "avoid the unavoidable". I don't want them to answer a question, I want them to, again, see above, adhere to the rules they set out for punishments, rather than making up bullshit. they talk as if the "LoL prison island" isn't a thing, but it is, and that's UNBELIEVABLY %%%%ed.
: What more do you want them to say? _What is there more to say?_
I don't want them to say anything. I wanted them to adhere to the rules THEY set out and lessen the blow from a two week BAN to what the punishment, as per THEIR rules state, a 25 Game Chat Ban. Shit, I'd be happy if the PERMA-BANNED me from using the chat altogether, but what I got in return was a sarcastic answer, a generic response and now, being completely ignored.
Shozis (EUNE)
: The thing is that when you get your final warning (14 day ban) you have only two options - reform for good or lose your account forever. Yes, the punishments decay after some time, but I wouldn't rely on that because no one except Riot knows how exactly it works and how long does it take.
Which is exactly what happened to me. I got past my first 2 Week Ban and decided it was enough to dissuade me from flaming again, even in a joking manner. All of a sudden, after two games with actual trolls, I get another Two Week ban, and on top of that, Riot Support blank my ticket and give me some sarcastic bs answer.
Magneset (EUW)
: Is he wrong though? The solution is as simple as he says. If you are toxic you get banned. Reforming is not about being toxic sometimes or very little. Its to not be toxic at all. You can easily use the chat without being a douchebag.
And I do, most of the apparent "toxic" chat logs he has were from months ago, and half of them is me talking shit about OTHER games. For example, I was playing against a Shyvana ages ago, and I believe I said something like "Oh shit, here comes Eragorn, man that movie is garbage" or some stupid shit like that. That was apparently enough for them to warrant a chat restriction.
: How is his advice wrong in any way? It is simple, precise and to the point. Don't be a d*ck and everything will be daijoubu. If you are reformed, what is there to worry about? Clearly, reformed, you were not.
I didn't say it was wrong, I said it's %%%%ed that an apparently "support specialist" gives that as a form of help. A sarcastic answer isn't helping, it just proves that Riot literally doesn't care.
archerno1 (EUNE)
: Dropping is not based on time but on games played. Also it seems to me like u were just waiting time to pass so u can be allowed to flame. Not that u actually reformed. Also any person who mentions "premades" when it comes to being banned loses all credibility.
Seemingly every match I've played where I've flamed was with premades. One took a dislike to me, flamed me, and when I asked him to stop, his buddy steps in and I get double reported. That's just what usually happens. I've even went as far as to mute all my team-mates so they don't give me shit if I do badly, and it doesn't work. Also, you haven't a clue about me. I used to be super toxic, flaming almost every game and stuff, but since then, I barely use the chat at all for fear that I'd piss someone off and get banned. As for "dropping is not based on time", you contradicted yourself. If it's not based on time, but rather games played, then why would I have "waited" any length of time? Maybe wait till it happens to you and see what happens when Riot screws you over, then watch your own credibility go down the shitter
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