: Are you ok? Regardless of the ban...?
> [{quoted}](name=Liż,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2Ew3qOrE,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-06-19T09:03:59.496+0000) > > Are you ok? Regardless of the ban...? Yes, I'm ok, thanks for asking. I just get a bit overly emotional when playing sometimes. I appreciate the concern.
: > [{quoted}](name=BestCroixEU,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2Ew3qOrE,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-19T08:28:01.701+0000) > > I doesn't. I don't disagree. I'm not trying to argue that it helps me, I'm just trying to argue that I don't think I deserve to be banned because I wrote a bit too much in the chat. Ok. Then just take these as advices for the future, if you want.
> [{quoted}](name=Sarchiapon,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2Ew3qOrE,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-19T08:31:01.018+0000) > > Ok. Then just take these as advices for the future, if you want. Yes, I will, it's definitely good advice! Thanks!
: > [{quoted}](name=BestCroixEU,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2Ew3qOrE,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-06-19T07:35:39.425+0000) > > Yes, I do this quite a lot. In maybe 50% of my games I write only one or two sentences. > This is what you should do. Focus on the game and if you want to give directions uses ping or very brief words like the one you surely already knows: baron, dragon, def and so on. If you want to talk more than that, have some joke or anything else, nowhere was said that you CAN'T...just try to understand before if your team is a friendly one or not. Some teams take everything as a lecture aimed at them, and talk to them is at best useless, at worse risky because you may get lured into a flame war and get punished. > I did feel like playing. I wasn't even tilted when the game started. I had a really awful performance in lane, which tilted me. It was one of those **bad games**. Well i can't still see how write in the chat so much can help you. You just zone out from the game even more and lose every chance to salvage it.
>Well i can't still see how write in the chat so much can help you. You just zone out from the game even more and lose every chance to salvage it. I doesn't. I don't disagree. I'm not trying to argue that it helps me, I'm just trying to argue that I don't think I deserve to be banned because I wrote a bit too much in the chat.
DarkG0d (EUNE)
: at least you are a good sport about . listen if your account gets unbannned or decide to make another one , just type single words in the chat. if you play to climb thats what you need to do. calls like "Baron" "Drake" "Lets take tower" and mostly communicate with pings. even the words I told you are redundant. and also maybe your yasuo game contributed to your ban 0/11 with 2k damage and less damage than the support. that to me shows that you only chatted. and did not care about the game you where on. No matter what others are doing. we all get toxic people and spammers in our games. most of us mute and report them. in this case you where the one who got reported. remember you are playing a game.
>listen if your account gets unbannned or decide to make another one , just type single words in the chat. if you play to climb thats what you need to do. calls like "Baron" "Drake" "Lets take tower" and mostly communicate with pings. Certainly good advice, and I've been trying to follow this for a long time. I just get dragged into discussions a little too easily. It's a character flaw. >and also maybe your yasuo game contributed to your ban 0/11 with 2k damage and less damage than the support. that to me shows that you only chatted. and did not care about the game you where on. Yes, this is the one I was banned after. I'm not trying to hide it, I just didn't realize that people could of course not know for sure which game in my match history it is. I did chat a lot, and I was admittedly playing on "autopilot". But again, this was not to intentionally grief my team. I was just very tilted, and performing quite badly due to it. I can say that I genuinely did not try to feed or troll to ruin the game for my team, I just felt really bad and was against a superior player.
JustClone (EUNE)
: > I am really, really bad at that champ I suppose I really don't think so. > My second most recent Yasuo game I was 3/3/5 and did pretty ok. I know, I have checked it. This is why I was in doubt, did you do the last two on purpose or not. How can level 127 summoner, deal 5k dmg on champions for about 55 minutes? This is NOT a guy who sees the champion for the first time, and obviously he gained alot of game knowledge for the last... idk, few thousand games? You understand why I am asking, this is not the first time that someone who was obviously trolling teammates, would behave nice in chat and then come to forum to "expose" the problems of riot automated system. I mean, Ill upvote your thread to get some attention, but ill be really pissed off, if red guys shows up, and it turns out you have not been that nice as you appear to be. Anyway, since I have nothing against you for now... I really wish you the best, and good luck with your case.
>How can level 127 summoner, deal 5k dmg on champions for about 55 minutes? This is NOT a guy who sees the champion for the first time, and obviously he gained alot of game knowledge for the last... idk, few thousand games? I have a very weak mental. I really do tilt easily, like I've admitted myself. It's not really about the writing, I would probably have been nearly as bad if I didn't write. My performances have **always** been really inconsistent. I don't think it's fair if I get banned for being a tilter. I think mentality is a central part of any sport, and even pros tilt. It's an element of the game to remain calm, and it's one I'm bad at. I need to practice it, but personally I consider the mental game to be a central part of league and not one that should be subject to punishment (just like bad mechanics shouldn't be). >I mean, Ill upvote your thread to get some attention, but ill be really pissed off, if red guys shows up, and it turns out you have not been that nice as you appear to be. Thanks. I could of course have been toxic in some other game and just have forgotten it (as you do see, I play quite a lot so this isn't out of the question), but since it didn't show in the report card (only _two_ games showed), I think it would be pretty unfair if I was banned for them. In that case I think it would feel to me that Riot just went through all my chat logs to try to find anything negative to justify their system banning me (even if I hadn't been reported in those games), instead of actually explaining why I was banned for these games in particular. I am definitely not arguing in bad faith. Like the title says, I _genuinely_ believe I did not deserve this ban. I am open to being proven wrong, and if Riot support does have a compelling argument for why I was banned, I won't sit here and argue. If I truly am a toxic player I'll accept reality and do my best to reform further.
: > I personally don't think I deserved the punishment here in the first place. You do have the right to question your punishment's validity, and you should write a ticket to the support, see what's their opinion on your case. > However, I don't believe I griefed. Griefing implies intentionally ruining the game for other players. You can unintentionally grief as well. It happened me for example, that a teammate took my buff, on leash. Hitting it at 70HP. Even if he didn't pay attention, my game is done. I lost crab control, I do the next buff being lvl 1 - without leash - on an early game jungler. In mid-diamond ELO, where people know how to punish you, this game is lost at 2minutes. And it's lost due to a person looking at it's phone screen, during the leash. I mean cmon, I'm supposed to expect a diamond player not knowing to back off at 500hp and farm his 3 melee creeps? Using smite, when leashing, will deny me HP from the next camp, and cut my ability to do the first gank of the game. Jungle role is very symmetric, if you have a counter matchup in the enemy jungle, and you screw up early, there is no tower that you can hide under, and last hit creeps in laning phase. You're DONE. You DID unintentionally grief. I'm not saying you could have won the game, if you didn't type as much as you did, but what you did couldn't have ANY BENEFICIAL influence on your match. I personally consider the timeframe (let's say 1 year) after the 14 day ban as "PAROLE". Just like in jail. You get out, on the condition to be 100% clean. You get a parking ticket? Back you go. - this is how I see it, not stating this as a fact. > I did my best. I played as well as I could. I will sadly have to disagree with you on this one. Focusing more instead of typing, could have improved your performance significantly. I consider this kind of behavior just like talking on the phone and driving. Check this article out : > You should not talk on your cell phone while driving because being distracted by a phone conversation is similar to driving while intoxicated. Talking on the phone while driving can cause you to react more slowly when an unexpected driving hazard emerges or perhaps to never see the hazard until it’s too late. More and more studies are showing the dangers inherent with this distraction, and the hands-free phones do not appear to offer much (if any) improvement. There are more documented accidents from talking on the phone than from texting, but this is likely due to the widespread use of cell phones (compared with texting). When teens are learning to drive, they are encouraged to put their phones in their backpacks or purses, and then place those items in the back seat. Everyone should all follow that advice. Move your cell phone to the trunk if you need to, but remove the temptation. Again, this is my personal opinion, I do believe in your right to appeal the ban, and wish you good luck in doing so. I have no right to pass judgement onto you, I just threw my 2cents out there, since you asked the boards for opinions. Good luck.
>I will sadly have to disagree with you on this one. Focusing more instead of typing, could have improved your performance significantly. I consider this kind of behavior just like talking on the phone and driving. I have to call you out a little here. You have not seen the replay of that game. I %%%%ed up really, really bad, and played like, quite frankly, an idiot. The enemy laner played at least 10x better than me, and I just got completely destroyed. It wasn't on purpose, it was a combination of tilting and me playing a champ I'm relatively bad at into a tough matchup. To top it off, my opponent was playing a champ they were quite good at (58% winrate on lb over 40 games). The writing really did not affect my game a lot in my opinion (since I was already performing so extremely badly). >You DID unintentionally grief. I'm not saying you could have won the game, if you didn't type as much as you did, but what you did couldn't have ANY BENEFICIAL influence on your match. Certainly not, but I think there's another way to look at this: why not remove the chatbox then? Or just have preset chat commands like "Baron", "Finish", and "Please gank". I mean surely casual discussion (even if it isn't negative) will hurt _anyones_ game, not just mine? If this game is so purely about performance, then you might as well remove the chatbox? Again, personal opinion, I don't think it's a fair ban if I was banned just for using the chatbox for discussing with people who were actively discussing with me. I think context does matter in this case, and answering people should not be a bannable offense in itself. >I have no right to pass judgement onto you, I just threw my 2cents out there, since you asked the boards for opinions. I appreciate it a lot! I think it's an interesting discussion, and I have no hard feelings even if you disagree with me. At this point I have already contacted Riot support, so at this point it is just interesting to get different perspectives and thoughts on this.
Voidner (EUNE)
: It's so funny when people don't know what to say so they just write "lol"
: well you should definitely contact riot support and appeal for reverting the ban, it doesn't seem toxic at all or are you banned for inting?
Thanks, I have contacted them now. I was told by someone in a different post that I was not banned for inting (the message you get is different if it's for inting).
Sir Veigar (EUNE)
: Sad thing is, this won't get reverted, because the ban system has no sense of "justice". Its just an algorithm that you accidentaly juked in a series of unfortunate events. I feel bad for you.
I agree. Having been punished before, and having seen and heard a lot of what players are punished for, I believe the system is at least somewhat flawed. I think that's understandable, and I don't think it's an awful system, but I do think it could definitely be better. If this does not get reverted I will at least start another discussion because I do have some questions and suggestions for Riot. I'm pretty interested in how the system works in general, so I'm hoping to get some answers at least in that case.
: While most of it seems clean, I do think that you're negatively influencing your teammates with giving up early on. This is also a reportable offense. Now I wouldnt say this is extremely offensive language or flame, but if you already had your 2week ban then I get why you've got a permaban. Whenever someone is trying to start a discussion with you, just dont react. Go to the settings and make your chat logs as small as possible so you cant read full sentences, but that you can see short word communication like gg or gj. If you still cant help yourself from trying to read just /mute all. Do it for yourself. Good luck in trying to grt unbanned and have fun in future games!
>While most of it seems clean, I do think that you're negatively influencing your teammates with giving up early on. I could see this as an argument, but I'm not sure if I'd say I was giving up. Yes, in both cases I did ask for surrender, but it's not really giving up. I could just tell I'm tilted and that I was really underperforming. I think I pretty much only wrote it once too. I don't think being slightly negative (maybe even just realistic) should be a reason for a permaban. Again, I realise it's thin ice, but I think that's a really weird precedent to set. Should people be constantly afraid of typing in their chats in case they are being slightly negative and don't want to be punished? >Whenever someone is trying to start a discussion with you, just dont react. This is good advice, and I completely agree. I do this in quite a few games actually. >Go to the settings and make your chat logs as small as possible so you cant read full sentences, but that you can see short word communication like gg or gj. I didn't actually know this is possible and will do it immediately. >Good luck in trying to grt unbanned and have fun in future games! Thanks, u2!
Sir Veigar (EUNE)
: I would definitely appeal against that. I think i know what triggered the ban tho: _____________________ Game 1: > BestCroixEU: i just write depressed **shit** Game 2: > BestCroixEU: yeah im really **bad** > BestCroixEU: im so **bad** we should probably surr ______________________ (Disclaimer, i dont agree with this, its just a fact:) "Bad" and "Sh*t" are trigger words. Even though you were pretty friendly, and those words werent directed to your teammates, the system registered your behavior as negative. Its sad that this has to happen, but, what can we do?
Thanks man. Since this apparently isn't due to "inting" (somebody told me the report card is different in that case) I'd assume it's something like that too! >Its sad that this has to happen, but, what can we do? Ah, probably nothing, but I just didn't want to bother Riot support for no reason. I just wanted to get some feedback about whether the boards thought the ban was totally justified before I contacted them, which I have now done.
: if it's a permaban then one could assume you already had your 2 week ban . After the semi ban, **any** toxic behaviour, no matter how small can get you permad. And while this chatlog may not seem like much... i guess it could be... i think it's best that you ask support if it's a false positive from their perspective, at this point.
>And while this chatlog may not seem like much... i guess it could be... Yeah, I was on thin ice I suppose. If Riot does think this ban was totally deserved, then so be it. Not much I can do about it anyway. But I personally don't think I deserved a ban for this, and I don't think the system is good enough to recognise me as tilting as the reason I got banned. I think you could _maybe_ justify me being banned by these chatlogs (for some kind of negativity but I don't even think I was THAT negative), but I think it's still unfair because it's such a subtle reason to be banned for i don't think the system itself would recognise that. I think the system thought I was flaming others.
JustClone (EUNE)
: The chat, just by itself, is not good reason to ban you. I would stand behind you 100%, if that is the sole reason for the permaban. But I have another question. Why do you have 2k dmg for 25 min, and 3k dmg for 27 minutes, in your yasuo games? Most people will agree that similar score is very very close to intentionally underperforming...
>Why do you have 2k dmg for 25 min, and 3k dmg for 27 minutes, in your yasuo games? I am really, really bad at that champ I suppose. But it's not like those are my stats every game. My winrate on the champ is like 40% or so, and I even have some popoff games every now and then. My second most recent Yasuo game I was 3/3/5 and did pretty ok. >Most people will agree that similar score is very very close to intentionally underperforming... Similar, but for what it's worth I can promise I don't intentionally underperform. I actually feel really bad about losing.
: Have you ever tried to not write anything at all in chat? You know, you are supposed to being playing a game, not having a chat. It's not like you are forced to play, cause i guess in this case complaning would at least make sense. But if you don't feel like playing, why don't you take a break?
>Have you ever tried to not write anything at all in chat? Yes, I do this quite a lot. In maybe 50% of my games I write only one or two sentences. >But if you don't feel like playing, why don't you take a break? I did feel like playing. I wasn't even tilted when the game started. I had a really awful performance in lane, which tilted me. It was one of those **bad games**.
: This alone isn't permaban-worthy. It's a chat ban at most, for spamming. But the fact that perma bans are issued to repeated offenders, makes me think you've done some shady shit in your past. Thing is, when someone writes 50+ chat lines in my match, I take that as griefing. Especially if the said person goes 0/11/1, with 4cs/min. You didn't INT, you didn't flame, but you hard-griefed that game. You could have definitely done better that game, if instead of spamming the chat you'd have played and focused, while muting the people frustrated with your score. Your little "let's win this internet argument" - attitude cost you and your team a match. You literally did less damage than a rakan support, with a fighter champ - in lane. That's unacceptable, if I had you in my game, you can bet I'd have reported you as well. _**I mean, if you didn't farm, didn't fight,didn't place vision - what DID you do in that game? **_ - try answering me this. And honestly, when you're on your last chance, as in before the perma ban, you have to be EXTRA careful, not to slip up.
>But the fact that perma bans are issued to repeated offenders, makes me think you've done some shady shit in your past. I've been banned for somewhat similar behavior in the past, although with some more blaming. However, I already served my punishment for that. While I understand it should affect the severity of my future punishments, I personally don't think I deserved the punishment here in the first place. >You didn't INT, you didn't flame, but you hard-griefed that game. I played very bad. I was in an awful mental state. However, I don't believe I griefed. Griefing implies intentionally ruining the game for other players. I absolutely did not want to ruin the game for the others, and I did my best. >You could have definitely done better that game, if instead of spamming the chat you'd have played and focused, while muting the people frustrated with your score. Your little "let's win this internet argument" - attitude cost you and your team a match. I was the worst player in that game. There is no question about this. It was due to being in a bad place mentally. However, who here has never tilted, or had a really, really bad game? Do you deserve to be punished for bad performance. >I mean, if you didn't farm, didn't fight,didn't place vision - what DID you do in that game? - try answering me this. I did my best. I played as well as I could. It might be personal opinion, but I really don't think bad performance should be ban-worthy. The reason I did almost nothing in that game is _not_ purely tilt. I wasn't tilted when the game started at all, but I lost my lane EXTREMELY hard due to not only having a bad matchup, but my opponent playing much better than me. Not writing would probably have improved my performance a little like I said, but realistically I would only have died a few times less and not been much more useful. My opponent was better, I was playing a champ I was not very good at, admittedly, and I lost fair and square.
: >who engaged me in discussion. you should save the discussions for after the game and just use short replies in game
I actually do agree with you, I probably shouldn't write as much as I did, but did I deserve to be permabanned for that? I mostly write when dead or running to lane.
: it makes no difference what others were doing. your chat has the same issues either way
I agree that context doesn't matter if I had insulted someone else or thrashtalked, but I think calling it spam isn't fair when I was replying to people who engaged me in discussion.
: i imagine flamers would have issues dealing with you given your self damaging attitude {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
Yeah tbh people seem to just get more mad when I admit I'm bad. It's pretty ridiculous.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: If u feel u are that bad, why do u chat? Why dont u mute and improve? Omg that chat imho doesnt deserve a ban.but ffs, a slap or two irl would habe been a nice compromise.
>If u feel u are that bad, why do u chat? >Why dont u mute and improve? I don't know. To be honest my brain is probably a bit %%%%ed or something, I tilt really hard and get quite sad. >Why dont u mute and improve? I mute all in about 75% of my games. >a slap or two irl would habe been a nice compromise. Yeah, probably, tbh.
DarkG0d (EUNE)
: maybe it was cause of the spam. dude, you are playing a game not a chat platform . in comparison of that one game of yours with that wall of text. it would take me at least 20 matches to be able and type this many messages.
I clarified this in the post: It looks like spam, but that's because you don't have the context of other people writing. I was writing about as much (maybe a little more) than the others. I usually don't write very much unless others do too. Yeah, I wrote a lot, but it's not like I was spamming for myself and trying to annoy my teammates. I was discussing _with_ them.
Endellion (EUW)
: Hm. Those are pretty clean games, I'd say definitely appeal against that. The automated ban system I think has been a little twitchy lately. If you got the ban for intentional feeding it would say on the card.
Thanks a lot for the feedback! It's really got me down, because I was already feeling bad for playing so bad and being flamed by my team, so the permaban didn't exactly help with that. The card did say it was for "extremely inflammatory language" or something, so I suppose it was not for inting then, thanks for letting me know. I'm hoping it was just a quirk of the system.
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BestCroixEU

Level 127 (EUW)
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