: according to riot, but according to league it's when the damage of certain champions falls off. There's no min cap for that. Otherwsie Pantheon would be half-good early game since he only would be good at the start of the game. But Somehow his still named "the early game god"? It's Pre-6 ingame. talking about average early game is 15 min. But that's Pro league. Not what we are talking about.
You don't accept when Riot decides rules and play? Early game is until 15. minutes
: Champions that could use some nerfs, and what
According to Riot these champions are immune from nerfs. Better nerf Azir, Ryze, Viktor. So I'm saying it is double standard.
: If you are scared of AP burst buy 1 item with resist. ''OP midlaner problem'' solved. I think they could buff {{champion:136}} {{champion:45}}
Ahri doesn't need a buff. Just strong two champions need nerf (Orianna and Syndra) . Riot will broke game with unnecessary buffs. Also do you know new Banshee? New Banshee is very effective for ap mid lane champions. AP mid lane champions don't need a buff. Especially Lissandra, Lux, Ekko don't need buffs.
: Impying that if you nerf Orianna and Syndra some other mid will not "suddenly" become FOTM and need nerfing. Logic :D.
At least they will not dominate another lanes and squishies.
: Make Syndra E scale with levels
Acutally Syndra is frustrating due to high AP ratios. Her Q has 75% AP ratio. Her ult is already broken.
Infernape (EUW)
: He was nerfed due to his kit. He had no clear weaknesses and did literally everything. He had burst, sustained damage, mobility, crowd control, poke, range, objective control (with his passive) and his ult can easily decide a teamfight. Laning against Azir is so oppressive that when he was at his prime, mid lane was reduced to Azir vs Viktor (due to Viktor being the only champion at the time that was capable of dealing with him). His kit is inherently broken which is why Riot has kept him in the state he's in now up until his ability rework. No amount of buffs will ever put current Azir in a balanced state.
It is still Riot's liar and you believe that. Are you have a brain? Laning against Syndra is so oppressive too. But I still don't see a Syndra nerf. Syndra's kit is broken too. But Riot likes her. So they don't rework her.
: Don't buff another mid lane champions
My bad. SKT Syndra and Dark Star Orianna need to be selling.
: Orianna is nowhere near as mechanically complicated as Ryze, Ahri or Azir. But then again, there is no point in arguing with you, almost everyone told you that your post is not accurate and you just keep repeating the same things, I don't even know why you post on a forum if you won't care about anyone else's response if they don't agree with you.
Orianna has more difficult mechanic to Ryze and Ahri.
: The winrate part can be said with any champion. Her winrate is fine, since she is a safe champion she will naturally be a little over 50%. It seems to be less than 51%. Anivia does some of the same, but she has 54% winrate... Additionally, multiple other champions have way higher pick rates in other roles. You don't seem to understand that almost every other midlaner has been nerfed, and that is the reason to why Orianna is in a great spot atm. Midlaners will only get weaker as a group if they keep nerfing the stronger ones.
Her win rate isn't fine. Orianna should have 46 or 47 win rate.
: early game is pre 6. mid game is lvl 6-15 Late game is 16-18. And Ori is teamfight champion but she can't play very offensive in lane doe to her immobility and her ultimate doesn't work so well if your opponent keep track on her ball, + her ult is dodgeable with a basic dash/mobility spell. Her early game relies on her being passive and auto attacking her lane when he or she gets too close, while in mid game she picks up a little with more roaming where her teammates can protect her positioning. Last late is where the teamfights come in if your team gets into a teamfight ori is almost always on the winning side. But like I said before her ult is still not an instant win since a basic dodge can make her ultimate useless. As an opponent to ori you always need to care for her auto's early and go agressive when she just thrown an auto. her attack speed is slow which means she can't build up the next auto before you are in her face. Like Kayn or zed can easily destroy ori early. Mid game, Ori relies on Teammates quite alot so if you find her of postioning as any champion its easy to take her down, just try to flash away from her ball if she ult. Late game she's a nightmare since everyone is defending her + hourglass/banshee try to baity out ultimate and then start fight. never fight if you know her ult is up.
Early game isn't pre 6. Early game until 15. minutes.
Lit Corn (EUW)
: "Viktor's early game is mediocre " .... his range and Q gets him a safe laning phase with good trades while scaling well . the real pb about ori is like she pokes hard with autos but if she does one combo maaaan that hurts and then she E so you cant even trade back . then she scales , and keep %%%ing you while you literaly cant do anything exept if you hard in 24/7 with a strong assassin .
Viktor's early game has very low damage.
Rioter Comments
: She has an avererge early and mid game compared to many other champions. The only thing that she is strong at is late game. But even Pantheon has an average mid-late game. His early game is were his domating but he isn't useless when it comes to 20+
She has very strong early and mid game. One item Orianna can take your half HP without ult. I'm talking about between 12-18. minutes. Build Morello or Luden. You will have the most scariest burst after Syndra.
: She has a medium range, which exposes her to a greater risk and can get outranged and killed by a great number of champions. Her mechanics aren't the simplest either, however, you can still be decent with her without being Faker, but if you can't position your ball correctly, you won't get far and therefore leads to the opponent having a higher chance of winning lane.
Command Attack TARGET RANGE: 825 Command Protect TARGET RANGE: 1100 They aren't medium range. Medium range around 550-600 range. Orianna's range is very good. So Orianna doesn't need a risk. Her mechanics aren't simplest either I agree so she shouldn't have 50%+ win rate. One of the most difficult champions should have around 46-47% win rates. Cassiopeia has 48% win rate. Viktor has 47% win rate.
: First off, Orianna is not OP. She is top tier but that is because of how safe she is, that she's decent in all matchups. Most champions are stronger than her in either early, mid or lategame. Her strength is normal in all of those. I don't think an ult cooldown nerf is justified, due to how reliant she is on it. Remember that the cooldown is short mostly due to the cdr-heavy build. She doesn't need a mana nerf either, she can't spam abilities early. What needs to be done is to buff or change Azir, Ryze and Viktor so they can compete in the current meta.
First off Orianna is op. And my all datas prove that. She is S tier. So god tier. Because she has utility, burst and low cooldowns and mana costs. Orianna ult has 35 seconds cooldown at late game. Her strength is very high. She has 50%+ win rate as high skill champion. That's problem. Even if new players have 50%+ win rate, main players will have 60%+ win rate. So she is op. Also she has the highest pick rate for mid lane. Higher than Ahri. It is ridiculous. Every player plays with her. Because she is op. Because mid lane requires many champion but everybody plays with her. People wants win so they play with Orianna. Ult cooldown buff needs to be reverted. If Orianna doesn't get a rework due to competitive rates, Azir shouldn't get a rework. Ryze should get big buffs. But I still didn't see a Ryze buff or Azir buff. Riot thinks Azir rework due to competitive arena.
JQKAndrei (EUW)
: Ryze and Azir are much more mechanically intensive than Orianna. She may not be super easy to use, but she's not even that hard.
Orianna has 9/10 difficulty. You can't her with Ahri, Viktor, Zilean, Vladimir. So Orianna shouldn't have 50%+ win rate.
: Azir, Ryze and also Viktor are overnerfed, but are still stronger lategame. Ahri has great roaming and snowball potential. Anivia has a great lategame and counters melees in teamfights. Syndra is impossible to fight without a tanky build due to her r. The only reason Orianna is played more now is that all other powerful midlaners have been nerfed. Yes, she is good at the moment but she has clear counterplay and is not unhealthy for the game in any way. She is a jack of all trades but isn't too powerful in any areas.
I think every op champion is unhealthy for this game. Orianna too. A champion can have balanced kit but that doesn't mean he/she is healthy champion for this game. Orianna needs early game mana nerf and ult cooldown nerf. So I asked why she has strong early, mid and late game. Also I don't think Azir needs rework due to competitive. If Azir needs rework, Orianna needs too, Syndra needs too. Competitive rates shouldn't an indicator for champion rework. Also she is too powerful in every areas.
Eratos (EUW)
: ***
You're op champion defender. Don't waste your time. You will not win.
Rismosch (EUW)
: Draven also has a movement speed buff, but you don't consider him mobile, do you? WIth escape people usually mean mobility abilities, like a dash or something. Orianna has nothing of that sort. If she gets cought, she is dead. She cannot escape when 5 people collapse on her. If he gets pulled in by a Blitz or Thresh, she is also dead, because she has no escape. Her movementspeed is nice and all, but it is no real escape.
Draven has mobility when he hits her Q. It is difference situation. Orianna doesn't need auto. When every champion gets cought, they are dead. It isn't a excuse or counterplay. Her movement speed and slowing is good escape.
Dandulf (EUW)
: Because she's a strong independent robot. I can't really comment, I probably just haven't played vs a good Orianna, but I didn't find her difficult to lane against, just watch her balls :) and found her pretty easy to dive in teamfights. Again I could just be crap and have no idea what i'm talking about. definitely a strong champ though.
just watch her balls :) Like just dodge skillshots. You can't dodge all skillshots. Even Challenger player can't dodge all skillshots.
: Yeah she can do a lot of things and I can do a lot of things, that's how this game works congratulations you know that. Just so you know for the future the best counterpicks for anivia are fizz and kassadin, orianna is an even lane and can be won pretty easy. A counterpick doesn't mean instant win and this is a 5v5 game anyway 1v1s don't matter at all unless you keep on feedin the enemy laner.
But she can do more things! She can use your weakness so she is counterpick!
: If she wants to outrade me her ball will be on me with her w, if she wants to dodge she won't deala ny dmg to me because the ball has to be on her to use the W ms and I'm pretty sure you have no idea about how anivia works I can easily wall her and change her pathing into my ult and Q. I'm not gonna argue about this anymore tho, it's pointless with people that have no idea what they are talking about.
She can all in against you with Flash. She can cancel your all ult damage with her E. You can't hit your skillshot due to her W movement speed. You think one-sided and you ignore enemy's moves. I'm not gonna argue about this anymore because you don't know meaning of counterpick.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: You are talking gibberish, all your arguments are biased and have no ground. I am done talking with you.
You're talking like Orianna main. You haven't an evidence, a sensible argument and a data. I am done talking with you.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: Yeah, you see? If you dodge her ball, you dodge ALL of her abilities. If you dodge one of Veigar's abilities, you may put yourself in a spot where he'll hit you with another ability. Also, his R is point and click; no dodging that. Veigar's W has delay, but it deals much more damage than ANY of Orianna's abilities, can not be dodged if you are first stunned by Veigar's 3s stun on E, and I was comparing it to her ult, which also has a delay, but still deals less damage than Veigar's W, even though it has 10 times more CD than his W. You have no valid argument as for why Orianna is "broken", as you claim her to be. EDIT: not to mention his E again, but I will. An AOE stun that works for kiting or catching enemies. Even if it doesn't hit an enemy, as long as the enemy is caught within the area, for most champions the only escape is flashing out.
So it isn't excuse. ''Orianna is skillshot champion so she is balanced'' very absurd excuse. DODGE SKILLSHOTS. BULLSHIT. Veigar has delay so you can dodge but you can't dodge Orianna's W. So Orianna has stronger early game. She wins all trades.
: Or I am just good, I;ve mained Anivia for some years now, she has counterplay it's not impossible to beat.And how is she a counterplay you can easily outrade her.
Good Orianna beats good Anivia. Because Anivia is very immobile mage. Orianna gains movement speed with her W so she can dodge your all skillshots.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: Again take into consideration that to gain the MS, she has to have her ball on the right place (mainly on herself) That means that if she has just sent her ball out (either to damage enemies or to shield allies), she will be out of reach to get the MS buff. Also, most champions that are considered "mobile" only need to use one ability for mobility, but in case of Orianna sending her ball out, which she does often, she'll need 2 abilities to gain the 20/.../40% MS for a mere 2s that decays. Just because she has a slight MS buff, that doesn't make her a mobile champion. You're comparing her to Zilean, who can gain up to 99% MS buff for 2,5. Or for a straight 5s with some CDR and and his W.
Every champion has to putting somethings. It isn't an excuse. Every champion needs true skillshots. Veigar needs true E using, Zİlean needs true Q using. Orianna can be counted as half mobile mage. However she also has slowing so I'm saying she is mobile champion. Because you can't gank her due to W skill. Also movement speed bonus means mobility. No one denies that. She has big MS buff. 40% movement speed isn't low. Even 20% is very enough.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: Let me pick something that is much easier to play and yet very, very powerful: **Veigar** Let's compare it to Orianna **Q lvl 1:** 40 mana / 30 mana 7s CD / 6s CD 950 range / 825 range 2000 speed / 1150 speed both are aoe hits 2 targets / hits as many targets as it passes through damage doesn't drop off / up to a maximum 40% damage drop off, depending on how many targets it hits 70 (+60% ap) magic damage / 60 (+50% ap) magic damage **Q lvl 5:** 60 mana / 50 mana 5s CD / 3s CD (with 40% CDR) 2s CD / 1.2s CD 230 (+60% ap) / 180 (+50% ap) Just his Q outranges all of Orianna's abilities, as they are tight on the ball. Miss the ball? can't use the other abilities until she lands the ball on the right spot. Shall we move on? **Veigar's W / Orianna's R:** 300 (+100% ap) / 300 (+70% ap) _(Veigar's W already dealing more damage than her ult, with 8s CD vs 80s CD.)_ 1,25s delay / 0,75s delay 900 range / 825 range aoe radius 125,5 / aoe radius 325 no CC / strong CC Veigar's E a huge CC spell Veigar's R a huge single target nuke. His passive is much stronger than Orianna's, a passive that makes him oppressive in laning phase because you have to dodge his abilities or you're just making him stronger, that just scales as the game progresses, simply making him stronger every second that passes. He can target multiple areas/targets with his abilities, while Orianna can focus all her spells only where her ball is. But here you are, just crying about Orianna being "strong", while there are other strong champions that are much simpler to play. You probably just faced some experienced Orianna player that whooped your butt.
Veigar hasn't good movement speed boost and slowing. Orianna is cancer due to kiting with her W. Also Veigar's W has delay. Orianna W hasn't a delay so you can't dodge his W. But you can't dodge Orianna W without dodging her Q.
Grimmrok (EUNE)
: True, Azir may be harder to play, but he also has more outplay potential, so much that the only way to keep him at bay was to nerf him into an almost unusable state. He is so strong, that if he's buffed enough to be able to compete with other mages, he'd actually be overpowered. He is weak intentionally, until Riot can figure out _how_ to fix him.
It is Riot's absurd lie. They can do Azir very balanced with true changes. Azir was nerfed due to competitive. He wasn't nerfed due to his kit. if Riot allows Orianna, they can allow Azir at competitive.
: Her early game isn't strong... it's not weak but she isn't actually that strong early and can be pushed around rather easily by actual early game champions. And late game she is only strong because she has a teamfighting ult which the other champions youve mentioned don't. So a lot of this isn't her fault... And she does have mana issues, she is mana hungry... but like every champion in the game it's only an issue if you don't regulate your mana usage and itemize for it which ori does do. Plus she is frankly harder than most of the champions you mentioned... only azir and ryze aren't... And remember azir during his prime was much stronger early, mid and late than ori, and a well played ryze has the same strength level as ori early and stronger afterwards.
Her early game is very strong. So she has 55% win rate at early game. So everyone picks her against Corki. http://champion.gg/champion/Orianna/Middle? 55% win rate around 0-25 minutes. She has strong early and she doesn't fall. Also she hasn't mana issues. I explained this scenario 100 times. You can read all posts. She isn't mana hungry. Lux is mana hungry. Orianna hasn't mana problem. As a result Azir and Ryze were gutted due to strong early, mid and late game. Orianna needs nerf for same reason. You're saying she is mana hungry but wtihout example, explanation, argument. She hasn't mana problem. She can use her Q-W combo 10 times. Azir can use her W-Q combo 3 times. Meanwhile Azir has very low damage with W-Q combo. Orianna has very good damage with same combo.
: Depends on what you play, I always win with Anivia against Orianna.
Orianna is counterpick for Anivia. Probably you played against bad Orianna players.
: It's hard to take this claim seriously when her win rate is right on 50% for plat and above and is 22nd in win rate for the mid lane. She is not op, she just may seem op because her early game is good and her ulti can win a team fight at any point in the game and her shield is always relevant, so she never becomes "useless". Saying that Ahri's late game is mediocre is silly too.
She is op right now. High skill cap champions shouldn't have 50%+ win rate. Ryze had 45% win rate when he was nerfed. Soloq win rate isn't indicator in some situations. Azir had 46%.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: Yeah okay. Keep blabbing about. W/e Sorry if I don't take you seriously since you can't even post on a real account.
I'm not salty champion main at least. Salt continues.
: Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. The mid-meta has become incredibly stale in pro-play. With 7.12, Corki came back to the midlane, introducing a 3rd steady pick. However before this Syndra & Borianna were picked for a large majority of the games. And even with Corki, they are still often picked. Syndra's damage is just disgusting. Her ult lets you delete a squishy instantly, and still remain relevant for the 4v5 yourself. I'm amazed Riot has still not done anything about it (similar to Caitlyn in the ADC position). It's about time we see something of Azir again. I would love to see something crazy return to midlane, like Lissandra, but I don't see that happening. Heck, at this point I even prefer to see Varus back in mid over Syndra and Orianna.
You talked very well. I agree all of them. Yes even Lissandra can be good pick after same champions.
ButtBear (EUW)
: I main oriana and trust me if you want to nerf her this would be the nerf she needs. Q mana cost 50 at all lvl's.
Seems very much for early level. I think Q mana cost should be 40/40/45/45/50. Also her ult cooldown needs 20 seconds nerfs. Two nerfs but enough nerfs. 50 mana cost is big nerf for early level. It is mortal I think.
Eraenis (EUW)
: What makes you think it is a joke?
Xerath is immobile mage and he should take very good position. Because he hasn't even low mobility. Also Xerath's kit isn't strong as Orianna. But Orianna almost has everything. Shield, MS boost, slowing, passive extra damage, Aoe damage, ult stun and burst.
: Xerath has a way higher skillcap and is way more OP on the right hands with his range than Orianna lol
Xerath has a way higher skillcap and is way more OP on the right hands with his range than Orianna Is this a joke?
: I didnt deny the usefulness of MS, but: 1. I was talking about laning phase where having a dash to escape jungle ganks matters most 2.First we are talking about lower MS boosts; Zilean has one of the strongest MS boosts 3.Faker is the best player of the world
Bjergsen played Zilean mid. Jensen played Zilean mid. That doesn't change facts. Orianna's MS boosts is very strong too. Also her W has slowing with MS boosts. It stops a lot ganks.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: Ok.. I'm toxic but you're the guy refusing to talk about Orianna but only keep arguing with me for the sake of arguing. You're the one that SPAMMED me saying "Orianna main" in every comment and laughing at my opinion because I disagreed with you.. But I'm toxic? O.o Neither have you given any sensible argument because you're hiding your main account. All you're saying is "Orianna is OP because she one shots", something that many champions can do. I gave you sensible arguments. I showed you that her lack of mana problems are actually completely normal compared to other champions. I showed you that other champions can one shot. Some don't even use abilities but only need to right click and Auto Attack you. Like I said, I even agreed with you that the cooldown on her Ultimate could be increased to make it a bit fairer!! What more do you want? But you ignore all of that and just keep arguing and hating on me. You keep saying "cry" when in reality, YOU are the one crying about something. I'm simply disagreeing with you. Oh well.
Because this is a forum. Also I didn't sarcasm about anyone. But you have a problem with me. So yes you're toxic. Also I didn't think you while I created this topic. So I'm not toxic. You didn't give me a data and sensible argument. I still didn't a data, a statistic, an evidence. If you agree Orianna needs some nerfs, that means she is op. You still don't understand some situations. If a champion does very well job, that means she is over the border.
: MS boost =/= +1000 distance dash Or do you think an Upgraded Viktor Q (grants MS) gives you the same escape chance as a Leblanc W?
You think every dash is very safe? Is Zilean immobile mage? No. Do you know Zilean's late game movement speed? Watch Faker's Zilean. Zilean is very mobile champion with movement speed. Orianna too. She hasn't same level movement speed as Zilean but she is mobile. MOVEMENT SPEED MODIFIER: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 99% Zilean hasn't a dash but he is mobile champion. You can dodge almost all skillshots with higher movement speed. Example Thresh hook, Blitz hook, Taliyah W. MOVEMENT SPEED MODIFIER: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% Movement speed is important for a lot situation.
DELDE115 (EUW)
: >Zilean's mana costs are very high. That´s because he is a support, and supports arent suppose to spam abilities. Ori´s Q is 30 mana, but you have to constantly move it. You move the ball atleast 3 times every second its up, which sums up to 90 mana is less that 20 seconds. A good Orianna, "spams" her abilites while also keeping it steady. If you dont have problems with her mana, then only two possible explanations can be said. 1) you are a Korean pro player 2) you arent playing Orianna correctly Orianna is all about zone control, keeping you enemy away, and that requires you to use Q none stop (not literally). ___ Orianna may not have the biggest mana costs, but her Command: Attack (30 mana) and Protect (60 mana lvl 1) CDs are relatively short, then add Dissonance (with 70 mana at level 1). She has mana issues. ___ Another thing you arent taking into account is that most of her poke comes from her auto attacks thanks to her passive. The more aa, the more damage over time. ___ As for her late game, yes she is strong, but she is just as strong as every other none late game champion. If you have issues with her late game, you obviously dont have the right runes or magic resist. Also map awareness (knowing where she is going to place her ball). Orianna is not broken. Trust me, she is by far the most balance midlaner of all, and trust me, not all of them are balanced.
Didn't you see Zilean mid? Don't do this. Is Malzahar a support champion? But everyone played him as support. Constantly move it? Actually it is easier for skillshots. Zilean bomb needs 100% accurate hit. So it isn't an excuse. We aren't talking about player difference, player level difference. We're talking about champion features. Her Q and W have totally 100 mana and 1/3 of her total base mana. So she hasn't mana problem and her Q-W combo takes 50% HP from enemy player. 100 mana but you win all trades with low mana and high damage. If you can hit her Q, her W will hit 100%. Because her W has very large hitbox like her ult. She hasn't mana issues. If you think she has mana issues, you didn't play another control mages. Play Ryze, play Anivia, play Azir (use her Q for harass then discuss with me), play Lux, play Swain. Yes her late game is strong as another control mages. But her early game is very strong too. Otherwise no one will pick her against Corki. Because Corki has very strong early game. If Orianna has weak early game, why everyone play her against Corki? I didn't say Orianna is broken. I said Orianna is op. Yes I'm still saying. Orianna is op. She needs mana and ult cooldown nerf.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: So AGAIN you refuse to actually talk about the subject. I answered your topic with my actual opinion on Orianna more than once. I even said I agree with you on having a longer CD on the ultimate!! But you just want to argue with me. This proves it. Grow up please. W/E I give up. I can't help you.
You still didn't give an sensible argument. Even you haven't a data. If a champion has strong early, mid and late game, that means she is op. Don't cry please. You're very toxic with that sarcasms.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: All I did was point out that you keep making topics and focus on Orianna a lot. Is that not true? I then gave you my opinion on the subject which you completely ignored and starting arguing with me for the sake of arguing. Is that also not true? I'm not making your topics dirty, you're doing it yourself by the way you treat people disagreeing with you. Like I said, someone who doesn't even post from his main account CANNOT say the things you are saying. You can't in full honesty say that Orianna is OP and that she has no weakness. You can't say that you hate very strong champions because YOU don't tell us what champions you play. What you don't understand is that you don't like Orianna but other people might easily not like the champions YOU play and think the same thing of them. So your point is redundant. You are stating your opinion like it's a fact. That's what's annoying me. If you don't like Orianna that's fine. But don't state it like it's a fact that's she's broken and stuff. Or at least do so by showing you truly don't play any OP champions. Guess you want to keep hiding your rank/main champion, oh well. Until you post from your main I just can't take you seriously. If you're just going to keep arguing with me instead of actually talking about Orianna, please don't reply. Thank you.
Orianna is very op. I explained this 100 times and you didn't explain with true arguments. You can't answer to my topics. It isn't hard. Keep calm and don't enter my topics. Orianna hasn't a weakness. If you say she isn't mobile, she has very good movement speed with her W. If you think Orianna falls after mid game, you can investigate champion.gg game length chart. You haven't an argument. Your only number is word game.
: Orianna has a weakness. She has no escape over two screens distance unlike Azir.
She has big movement speed on her W. It is very good option for escape. Also her ult too for escape. Orianna hasn't a weakness. She is better version of Viktor.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: 1) Why should I give evidence? You're the one crying about being downvoted and assuming I downvoted you. I don't need to prove myself because you are of no importance to me. So why should I go through the effort? 2) You did, this is the same old crying about Orianna. It doesn't matter how exactly you started the old topic. The subject is entirely the same. You just hate Orianna, we get it. Would be cool if you posted on your real account to see what elo you are and what champions you play to better get an understanding of your background and why you believe Orianna is such a problem. I have a feeling you'll never do it. Oh well. And again, you refuse to answer the points I raised on the actual subject but proceed to just argue with me about other stuff. It really shows how well thought your argument on Orianna is ;). You're so salty damn hahaha, you even downvoted my comment saying "true" TO SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME - he agrees with you. So immature lol, only because you think I downvoted you.
You're the one crying about my topics and comments. You can look your first comment. I will not ask you what I will write. I didn't same old crying about Orianna. You can change main problem with good word game. True. None of your business. So don't make dirty my topics. Yes I hate Orianna. Because she hasn't a weakness. I hate op champions. I hate very strong champions. What is problem? Also I hate double standard. My old topics were about double standard. We're talking about Orianna's strong stages right now. It isn't same. Also why are you crying about Orianna posts? Are you Orianna main? Yes you're an Orianna main. Admit it.
DELDE115 (EUW)
: Believe it or not, Orianna has HUGE mana problems. You constantly have to move your ball (just like Azir´s soldiers) which tends to drain her mana pool fast. Its not as problematic as Anivia, buts its pretty similar. ___ Also, she might seem strong, but she is also, like most slow midlaners, easy to counter. Make her use all her mana and ask your jungler to come for a gank. Make sure the jungler takes the enemy blue from orianna as well. Trust me, she isnt broken, she is in a good place. Compared to other midlaners.
I explained this. Orianna hasn't mana problems. If you can explain that, say us. Orianna Q requires 30 mana her W requires 70 mana. Azir's Q requires 70 mana his W requires 40 mana. Also Azir's early and mid game has very limited damage after soldier nerf. Orianna's damage is ridiculous. Also she has safe shield. Azir gains a shield after engage. All control mages have low base movement speed. Azir has 325, Taliyah has 325, Aurelion Sol 325, Syndra has 330, Cass has 328. Orianna is similar to Zilean but Zilean's mana costs are very high. Zilean's Q has 60 mana cost Orianna's Q has 30 mana cost. She isn't broken but she is op. So she has high p/b rates. So Vİktor isn't worth pick anymore. So all pro players became an Orianna main after cooldown and mana buffs.
Eraenis (EUW)
: The ultimate cooldown is actually more of a global issue. I have noticed it on many other mages. Just looked up all the popular mid mages i could think off, and all of them had exactly 80 sec cd on lvl 3. Seems to be by design. Victor with 100 sec is a real oddity.
Riot buffed Orianna's ult cooldown before last season Worlds. I still didn't understand that buff. As a disruptor, Orianna’s strength lies in her ability to create threat zones that her opponents have to respect. With so much of her disruption tied up in Command: Shockwave, though, Orianna can feel like an entirely different champion while her ult is down. Having meaningful cooldowns is important, but we want to make sure that Orianna spends a little more time disrupting and a little less time waiting. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-617-notes Patch 6.17 R - Command: Shockwave COST 100/125/150 mana ⇒ 100 mana COOLDOWN 120/105/90 seconds ⇒ 110/95/80 seconds
: On the other hand, Azir also has higher DPS, range and AoE damage.
Did you say as mechanically or champion kit? But he also has lower burst, base movement speed and shield. Yes Azir is more difficult but I can't say Orianna's kit has weakness but Azir's kit hasn't.
Not xPeke (EUW)
: 1) I'm not downvoting. 2) You did make this topic previously, you even got into a salty argument with me spamming and calling me Orianna main which is completely false. All of that simply becaus I disagreed with you. Talking about "respect people idea and this is a forum". SMH. But nice reply, didn't even address the things I said. So much for it being a forum and you wanting to have a discussion :))).
1-No one knows who downvotes so you should give an evidence if you don't downvote. 2-I didn't make this topic previously. I talked about competitive meta and double standard. Your memory isn't good. You don't understand what is forum
: > [{quoted}](name=BullPower14,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=pNVBETvd,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-14T09:27:13.587+0000) > > But you still didn't explain last sentence. Orianna ult for multiple enemy player. So I said champion combos. However Orianna players use her ult for only one player. > > Also Orianna Q-W combo almost can do one shot against squishies at late game, Any mage, assassin, midlaner or burst champions can 1shot squishies, specially at late game.
But they need full combo. Orianna doesn't need ult. Just Q-W and enemy player has 30% HP. Orianna still has ult threat after Q-W combo.
Eveninn (EUW)
: What's so strong with her lategame? O.o And iirc she still struggles with being immobile in all phases, so dunno.
Actually she has good movement speed on her W. With Ghost she hasn't gank risk. Also her shield save her many risky situation. Orianna's late game is very strong. Look win rate % by game length chart. http://champion.gg/champion/Orianna/Middle?league= http://champion.gg/champion/Azir/Middle?league= http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia/Middle?league= Compare him with Ryze, Azir and Cassiopeia.
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BullPower14

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