: > [{quoted}](name=Cake Depression,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=0000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T10:25:40.016+0000) > > 1. There is a world of difference between someone invading your house and attacking you and someone behaving in a way you dont approve of in a video game. If you dont see this, then theres much bigger problems at stake. If someone invades your house you should not retaliate since you are on the back foot all ready, attacking him is most likely going to result in you getting even more hurt, the appropriate response it to call the police immediately and try to keep yourself as safe as possible. That is the rational way of behaving considering you have 0 idea about how many people are in your house or what kind of weapons they are carrying or what kind of a person they are. And again there are at least 3 instinctive ways of responses when youre life is threatened: Fight, flight or freeze. You feeling like youre provoked by other players words or actions in a game doesnt constitute a life threatening situation anyway. Yeah, i feel you, when someone brakes into your home your gonna be all take whatever you want and kill me and rape my wife, but first just let me call the police cause thats the "right" answer. > 2. You show me one, just one competitive sport where the trash talk and aggressive out bursts are directed at your own teammates? Also show me one competitive sport where the players get into aggressive trash talk and dont get punished by reffs? Show me one sport where its appropriate and allowed for people to stop playing and go on screaming matches at each other? Give me one example where a soccer player failed a goal or a pass or whatever and his teammates ran to him to flame him? Players in competitive sports also have a psychologist they regularly talk to and do work with so they are mentally and emotionally stable, and to figure out ways to keep them stable and deal with frustration. If you follow sports you must have noticed that the players who are more cohesive, supportive and stable win games, while the ones who get easily rattled lose. I agree with this actually. > 4. No, you live in a society and you play a game run by a company. The company has rules it put in what they accept or dont accept from people that choose to use their product, same as a society has rules if you want to live freely in it. If you choose not to abide by their rules the game owner has the right to punish you as their policy states. If other people are breaking the rules your job is to report them to the authority in question, not ''well he did it first so if i break the rules its not my fault''. The company wants you not to retaliate but to report the behavior to them so they deal with it. Dont know what happend to 3 but oh well. In case of number 4 if u report any incident to the authorities with proof and pictures and logs about discussion they will take appropriate actions and not come back to you with we cant be sure he actually wanted to rob that man or he just pulled out a gun because it was blocking his wallet. > 5. Ive had plenty of situations where I was flamed by a teammate that didnt see or understand the situation. So far ive only seen one person apologize for overreacting and not reading the situation correctly, because their initial view from their perspective is im provoking them by not doing what they expect me to. Flamers like to flame. Nothing new. > 6. If a dog bit someone it would be put down or at best the owner of the dog would have to pay for damages to the victim, tail pulling or not, a dog biting people because its uncomfortable is not acceptable behavior and makes the animal dangerous to its surroundings. In the same logic, you feeling like your tail is being pulled doesnt give you the right to escalate the situation and hurt the other person even more, without taking responsibility for what you did. To put it in even more basic terms, if someone calls your mom a hore, you dont get to break his jaw and expect not to suffer the consequences of what you did from the authorities. You are still accountable for your actions. If u pull a dog by the tail and it bites you are responsible and noone else will get punished by that. except you might get even worse of punishment for animal cruelty (which you should). Putting the dog down its just stupid seeing as how he was just minding his own business while you wore fcking up his space. The dog is not dangerous for the surroundings you are for threatening his space which is private just like yours. And your comparison is totally stupid. Calling someone s mother a whore is not the same as pulling a dogs tail. If u want to make a comparison make it the same thing, like for example: If u poke someone repeatedly in the eye or pull his hair you will get punched in the face and well deserved. Now if u call the dog a %%%%% or his mother and he bites you than that is another problem. > 7. I dont know how old you are or where you grew up, but you need to understand that you personally feeling provoked doesnt allow you to behave in any way you feel like. Provoking is exactly just that, provoking, it doesnt demand a response, it only hopes for it. And secondly, feeling provoked is very personal and individual and no one is responsible to keep you personally happy with their behavior. Calm down. If you cant control yourself to abide by the rules the owner of the game wants you to keep, then you either find other ways of keeping yourself in check (report and mute players that break the rules), find a different game to play, or accept the occasional punishment you get for breaking the rules. Getting provoked doesn't give you the right to assault someone but it give you the right to attack him verbally in response. > And lastly, if Riot was that strict about punishing toxic behavior and flaming, it would happen a lot less. As of right now, theres a ton of flaming happening in any game that you start losing, so obviously the players dont report it as much, nor does riot punish as much. I also personally never saw anyone calling for bans for people who were flaming the obviously trolling person, nor for someone who lost it and typed like one or 2 mildly toxic things in chat. If youre spam typing you are far from ''i lost it and needed to blow off steam''. To claim you did something ''in affect'' aka you lost control it can only account for 10 seconds of behavior, everything past that is considered controlled behavior unless you suffer from more severe mental illnesses. And even then it doesnt take away accountability from your behavior, it only allows you to bargain a slightly weaker punishment. People should be held accountable for their own actions, i agree. That includes the trolls and leisurely players that just want to relax in a ranked game not carrying about winning.
> [{quoted}](name=starkk1234,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=00000000000100000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-06-27T08:23:09.839+0000) > > > > People should be held accountable for their own actions, i agree. That includes the trolls and leisurely players that just want to relax in a ranked game not carrying about winning. Im sorry Im really not in the mood to try to draw and explain how laws, punishments and society works. So ill only address the last thing. Trolls and feeders suck as hell to have in your game. I agree that there needs to be better action against this. We also need to set up rules about what exactly constitutes trolling, as people will have different views of this. If we can agree on a set of rules we can start moving forward in putting additional measures in place. I've recently had a game where our jungle Vi refused to gank Zed cause ''its Zed'', after Zed figured out he had free reign mid our mid lane was being repeatedly dived into tier 2 by Zed and Rengar while Vi calmly farmed her jungle. When Zed eventually killed her in the jungle cause our mid had no pressure or priority she blamed our mid laner (btw our mid managed to survive the dives and only died once). The way I see it, Vi was trolling. Ive had a Zed and a Eve repeatedly feed the Fizz by 10 minutes he had 11 kills and 0 deaths. Zed and Fizz were talking all game like they knew eachother and Zed and Eve were duo so Im guessing win trading. My primary issue with these threads and arguments is that I dont think anyone can take you seriously when you spend most of your time defending and advocating why is it ok to be toxic because trolls exist. Focus your threads and arguments toward dealing with trolls instead of asking not to be punished for abusive chat and making excuses for your behavior. Then something might get done and you wont even have to deal with the option of being toxic, right?
: > [{quoted}](name=Cake Depression,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2018-06-22T21:17:33.155+0000) > > 1. It is not human nature to get aggressive when someone threatens our well being. There are multiple natural responses to having your life and personal boundaries threatened. Aggressive responses are no longer viable for most people in our society for a while now. Since we are small children we are taught to not respond aggressively but instead deescalate the situation and get a person of authority involved. This is literally the reason we have laws and police officers. Person A hurts person B, person B involves the authorities C, instead of personally seeking revenge. > > 2. Letting off steam in a healthy way is not spouting offensive and aggressive things to other people around you. Its actually abusive. Theres many healthy ways to blow off steam, you can look them up online. As a last line keep a pillow next to you and beat it with a towel during your respawn timers if you feel your frustration must have an aggressive component to its release. Its often used in therapy. > > 3. The second you feel anger and feel like you have to let it out, your brain chemistry has been affected. Cortisol is already flowing in your brain. > > 4. Again, your personal frustration doesnt give you the right to harass other people. It doesnt give you the right to flame them. > > 5. Lastly a question, have you ever apologized for you blowing up? For saying what you did out of frustration? Its one of the prime examples of losing your cool and just bullying people. Typical snowflake atitude. You cant deal with your own problems get other people(riot or the police in your example) to take care of them for you.
> [{quoted}](name=starkk1234,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=000000000001000000010001,timestamp=2018-06-27T08:05:47.642+0000) > > Typical snowflake atitude. You cant deal with your own problems get other people(riot or the police in your example) to take care of them for you. LMAO Look up the basics of law. The person A,B,C example is literally a text book example if you ever studied anything about law. And yeah I really dont care or expect myself to be able to fend off or personally seek revenge (nor do I want to) if im attacked by 5 guys twice my size (or even 1 guy twice my size). My size or fighting capability should never be the basis of my rights. which is why we made laws and punishments so that your personal rights arent determined by who has stronger friends. Also, what is the word again for people who attack a persons character instead of providing arguments? Anyway, im sure flaming the trolling person will teach them a lesson not to troll again, and im sure riot will appreciate you not behaving within their rules, they set for their game, and taking care of the troll yourself. GJ! Keep on fighting the good fight!
Airbend (EUNE)
: I don't know in which world you live and how your comment affects the game, but i can respond to you. 1.When someone affects your well being, its normal to get aggresive.Example:If someone get in your house and attack you or try to rob you, your natural repsonse will be to defend yourself which will include some portion of anger towards your attacker.How this is translated to game?When someone in game provoke you with his actions and words its natural to defend yourself with words too.Taking in mind human nature, there will be some portion of anger and frustration.Keep in mind im talking in situations when you NEVER start first, but you are provoked(and everyone have that point where they cant control themselfs). 2.If you watch ANY comptitevi sport, you will see that trash talking and banter are part of that.There is NO competitevie sport where trash talking is not present.Again because that is part of the human nature, and i dont see sportsmans runing around with pillows. 3.My point exactly,if you dont let it out its goona get even worse. 4.So you wanna tell me that the people who ruined my expirience with their words and actions are alowed to do that, but i cant defend myself even with words.Nice. 5.I apologized in my life plenty for words and actions.I will NEVER apologiez to someone who provoke me on purpose and purposle wanted me to lose control.I can wait that person to apologize first and hear him out, after that i can accept their apolige. It's really easy.You dont pull the dog for the tail, you dont get bitten.You can't punish the dog for bitting you in a first place, if you repeatedly irritate him.The dog responce is natural. And thats why i have a problem with RIOT banning system.It create a toxic enviorment, and doesnt take in consederation human flaws and nature.YOU CANT BAN PEOPLE FOR WORDS.You can puhish them, but in other more effective ways.When you ban people who are trying to defend themselfs from trolls it will create a toxic enviorment which will only get worse,(because trolls get unpunished and people who defend themselfs feel puhished unfair) and wont help no one. AGAIN IM TALKING IN SITUATION WHEN YOU ARE REPEDEATLY PROVOKED BY OTHERS.{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=Airbend,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-23T08:46:00.966+0000) > > I don't know in which world you live and how your comment affects the game, but i can respond to you. > 1.When someone affects your well being, its normal to get aggresive.Example:If someone get in your house and attack you or try to rob you, your natural repsonse will be to defend yourself which will include some portion of anger towards your attacker.How this is translated to game?When someone in game provoke you with his actions and words its natural to defend yourself with words too.Taking in mind human nature there will be some portion of anger and frustration.Keep in mind im talking in situations when you NEVER start first, but you are provoked(and everyone nave that point where they cant control themselfs). > 2.If you watch ANY comptitevi sport, you will see that trash talking and banter are part of that.There is NO competitevie sport where trash talking is not present.Again because that is part of the human nature, and i dont see sportsmans runing around with pillows. > 3.My point exactly,if you dont let it out its goona get even worse. > 4.So you wanna tell me that the people who ruined my expirience with there words and actions are alowed to do that, but i cant defend myself even with words.Nice. > 5.I apologized in my life plenty for words and actions.I will NEVER apologiez to someone who provoke me on purpose and purposle wanted me to lose control.I can wait that person to apologize first and hear him out, after that i can accept their apoligize. > It really easy.You dont pull the dog for the tail, you dont get bitten.You can't punish the dog for bitting you in a first place, if you repeatedly irritate him.The dog responce is natural. > And thats why i have a problem with RIOT banning system.It create a toxic enviorment, and doesnt take in consederation human falws and nature.YOU CANT BAN PEOPLE FOR WORDS.You can puhish them, but in other more effective ways.When you ban people who are trying to defend themselfs from trolls it will create a toxic enviorment which will only get worse,(because trolls get unpunished and people who defend themselfs feel puhished unfair) and wont help no one. > AGAIN IM TALKING IN SITUATION WHEN YOU ARE REPEDEATLY PROVOKED BY OTHERS.{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} 1. There is a world of difference between someone invading your house and attacking you and someone behaving in a way you dont approve of in a video game. If you dont see this, then theres much bigger problems at stake. If someone invades your house you should not retaliate since you are on the back foot all ready, attacking him is most likely going to result in you getting even more hurt, the appropriate response it to call the police immediately and try to keep yourself as safe as possible. That is the rational way of behaving considering you have 0 idea about how many people are in your house or what kind of weapons they are carrying or what kind of a person they are. And again there are at least 3 instinctive ways of responses when youre life is threatened: Fight, flight or freeze. You feeling like youre provoked by other players words or actions in a game doesnt constitute a life threatening situation anyway. 2. You show me one, just one competitive sport where the trash talk and aggressive out bursts are directed at your own teammates? Also show me one competitive sport where the players get into aggressive trash talk and dont get punished by reffs? Show me one sport where its appropriate and allowed for people to stop playing and go on screaming matches at each other? Give me one example where a soccer player failed a goal or a pass or whatever and his teammates ran to him to flame him? Players in competitive sports also have a psychologist they regularly talk to and do work with so they are mentally and emotionally stable, and to figure out ways to keep them stable and deal with frustration. If you follow sports you must have noticed that the players who are more cohesive, supportive and stable win games, while the ones who get easily rattled lose. 4. No, you live in a society and you play a game run by a company. The company has rules it put in what they accept or dont accept from people that choose to use their product, same as a society has rules if you want to live freely in it. If you choose not to abide by their rules the game owner has the right to punish you as their policy states. If other people are breaking the rules your job is to report them to the authority in question, not ''well he did it first so if i break the rules its not my fault''. The company wants you not to retaliate but to report the behavior to them so they deal with it. 5. Ive had plenty of situations where I was flamed by a teammate that didnt see or understand the situation. So far ive only seen one person apologize for overreacting and not reading the situation correctly, because their initial view from their perspective is im provoking them by not doing what they expect me to. 6. If a dog bit someone it would be put down or at best the owner of the dog would have to pay for damages to the victim, tail pulling or not, a dog biting people because its uncomfortable is not acceptable behavior and makes the animal dangerous to its surroundings. In the same logic, you feeling like your tail is being pulled doesnt give you the right to escalate the situation and hurt the other person even more, without taking responsibility for what you did. To put it in even more basic terms, if someone calls your mom a hore, you dont get to break his jaw and expect not to suffer the consequences of what you did from the authorities. You are still accountable for your actions. 7. I dont know how old you are or where you grew up, but you need to understand that you personally feeling provoked doesnt allow you to behave in any way you feel like. Provoking is exactly just that, provoking, it doesnt demand a response, it only hopes for it. And secondly, feeling provoked is very personal and individual and no one is responsible to keep you personally happy with their behavior. Calm down. If you cant control yourself to abide by the rules the owner of the game wants you to keep, then you either find other ways of keeping yourself in check (report and mute players that break the rules), find a different game to play, or accept the occasional punishment you get for breaking the rules. And lastly, if Riot was that strict about punishing toxic behavior and flaming, it would happen a lot less. As of right now, theres a ton of flaming happening in any game that you start losing, so obviously the players dont report it as much, nor does riot punish as much. I also personally never saw anyone calling for bans for people who were flaming the obviously trolling person, nor for someone who lost it and typed like one or 2 mildly toxic things in chat. If youre spam typing you are far from ''i lost it and needed to blow off steam''. To claim you did something ''in affect'' aka you lost control it can only account for 10 seconds of behavior, everything past that is considered controlled behavior unless you suffer from more severe mental illnesses. And even then it doesnt take away accountability from your behavior, it only allows you to bargain a slightly weaker punishment.
Airbend (EUNE)
: I will gladly reply good sir/lady.It will make me feel a litle bit better.It is in human nature to get agressive when someone threaten our well-being.How this translate in to game, you may ask.Happy to answer.Like our good sir from above statet, we all have anger, some control it better some worse.But everyone have that point, when you need to let the steam off in a healthy way.In video games is called trash talking.After that you may feel some release from the frustration and anger you hade.The other way is to trash everythin around you or kepp the anger inside you and let it affect your brain chemestry, which you will agree is not healty.{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=Airbend,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=KYQB0bbf,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-22T15:32:58.513+0000) > > I will gladly reply good sir/lady.It will make me feel a litle bit better.It is in human nature to get agressive when someone threaten our well-being.How this translate in to game, you may ask.Happy to answer.Like our good sir from above statet, we all have anger, some control it better some worse.But everyone have that point, when you need to let the steam off in a healthy way.In video games is called trash talking.After that you may feel some release from the frustration and anger you hade.The other way is to trash everythin around you or kepp the anger inside you and let it affect your brain chemestry, which you will agree is not healty.{{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} 1. It is not human nature to get aggressive when someone threatens our well being. There are multiple natural responses to having your life and personal boundaries threatened. Aggressive responses are no longer viable for most people in our society for a while now. Since we are small children we are taught to not respond aggressively but instead deescalate the situation and get a person of authority involved. This is literally the reason we have laws and police officers. Person A hurts person B, person B involves the authorities C, instead of personally seeking revenge. 2. Letting off steam in a healthy way is not spouting offensive and aggressive things to other people around you. Its actually abusive. Theres many healthy ways to blow off steam, you can look them up online. As a last line keep a pillow next to you and beat it with a towel during your respawn timers if you feel your frustration must have an aggressive component to its release. Its often used in therapy. 3. The second you feel anger and feel like you have to let it out, your brain chemistry has been affected. Cortisol is already flowing in your brain. 4. Again, your personal frustration doesnt give you the right to harass other people. It doesnt give you the right to flame them. 5. Lastly a question, have you ever apologized for you blowing up? For saying what you did out of frustration? Its one of the prime examples of losing your cool and just bullying people.
: > [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vRbQLAn5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-22T08:35:11.896+0000) > > Play lulu mid, press W on them, GG. Then {{champion:117}} is nerfed in next patch with an explanation along the lines of "we argued before that it's toxic to try and negate kills to assassins by playing Lulu Mid, so, since it's clear that people didn't learned the lesson already since S4, we REALLY think that making Lulu's shield last 0.5 second will allow a more healthy gameplay from her part"...
> [{quoted}](name=Sarchiapon,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vRbQLAn5,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-22T09:20:36.229+0000) > > Then {{champion:117}} is nerfed in next patch with an explanation along the lines of "we argued before that it's toxic to try and negate kills to assassins by playing Lulu Mid, so, since it's clear that people didn't learned the lesson already since S4, we REALLY think that making Lulu's shield last 0.5 second will allow a more healthy gameplay from her part"... Woah they are really nerfing her?
Leto GT (EUW)
: Hi. Make sure you back first. If you back second, they'll push and roam while you'll be still walking back to your lane. Drop a ward at the middle of your lane if you're getting pushed in order to see which direction they go. Make sure that your lane has priority. You need to stop them from roaming. Knowing talon has a nice clear, you've to play aggro. You can also take teleport if you know you won't get killed or kill the opponent in lane. If your botlane ignores your pings, report them. Giving freekills to an assassin when it was warded and pinged to their attention, I would consider it as feeding. Maybe you can write in cap "X BOT", or something idk. Rarely happens to me. They usually back immediately. Overally. It sounds like you've trouble to get your lane pushed. Assume it's your plan. Assume that at lvl6, they'll go bot so if there's a moment to push it's there, you can also deny them by going bot first.
> [{quoted}](name=wG Got2Cool,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vRbQLAn5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-22T11:40:56.871+0000) > > Hi. > > Make sure you back first. If you back second, they'll push and roam while you'll be still walking back to your lane. > > Drop a ward at the middle of your lane if you're getting pushed in order to see which direction they go. > > Make sure that your lane has priority. You need to stop them from roaming. Knowing talon has a nice clear, you've to play aggro. > > You can also take teleport if you know you won't get killed or kill the opponent in lane. > > If your botlane ignores your pings, report them. Giving freekills to an assassin when it was warded and pinged to their attention, I would consider it as feeding. Maybe you can write in cap "X BOT", or something idk. Rarely happens to me. They usually back immediately. > > Overally. It sounds like you've trouble to get your lane pushed. Assume it's your plan. Assume that at lvl6, they'll go bot so if there's a moment to push it's there, you can also deny them by going bot first. Hey so you mean to take tp to keep up on their roams better, or why? I almost never get killed by them, usually maybe in mid game if they catch me on cds, but otherwise I usually deal with them 1v1, but I usually cant kill them in lane unless they burn cds to try and all in me or stay in lane when they are low, as they both have pretty nice escapes. I think backing first and goin bot at 6 immediately might be the best way to deal with this, since I already do the rest of it. But yeah, the last game that inspired me to actually write here there were a few occasions where both me and my jungler pinged our pushed up bot to back off while kata walked through my ward in river bush, scuttle and then bot lane ward and they ignored it until she was literally on them already. I struggle with bullying Talon in lane, I dont get pushed in, I keep up with it and I push in the lane so they miss cs if they leave. Kata I can bully pretty easy in lane, cause she gets hyper chunked everytime she thinks she can walk up and pick up her knife and gets poked the rest of the time. The issue is as soon as they figure out they cant kill me or die to me in lane they start picking up cs when theres nothing else to do and just roam the rest of the time. Thank you for your help, I would generally rather ban something like Vlad or other current pains than waste my ban on a Kata when my only issue with her is people not responding to pings (from my point of view im here cause im hoping im dumb and i can do more than just hope my teammates respond to pings) and giving her kills that could easily be avoided.
: Play malzahar, safely push, don't feed them kills. Keep them perma pushed so they can't roam. If the jungler decides to gank you, once in a decade (since we're talking about low ELO), point and click the f#$k out of the enemy laner, faceroll your keyboard, press R, and congrats, you won lane. In lane, watch your enemy assasin midlaner, and point and click R the shit out of them in teamfights, when they try jumping your backline. Malza is my favorite anti-assasin champ. Or play diana, build bruiser-AP, and own the enemy katarina, every time she comes to lane, last 6. Also out-roam her, and win other lanes too, by yourself. Both work pretty well for mid IMO.
I usually play annie into Katarina with following more or less the same pattern, stun her as soon as she gets too exited. Never managed to out roam them. Kata I can sometimes, but Talon always out roams me :/
Rioter Comments
greysand (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cake Depression,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=8ifJdLBO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-19T11:06:59.654+0000) > > I think Zoe is impossible to balance with her kit. The issue with her is that she can do too much too safe. You can abuse her in lane early, but come rotations, objectives and teamfights and she just spams in the general direction of the enemy and a bubble will hit and someone will die, or you know just chunk out half of someones hp by randomly spamming Q in the general direction of the enemy. Even in lane after she scales a bit she just shows and farms easy from across the lane with her Q or QR, and gets extra random survivability from her w. > > I honestly have no idea how to balance this champ, maybe if you give her very low dmg and balance her around being in a support role. Also I think it would be good to make her ult interruptable, where if she gets ccd when she pops up she stays there, it would make it much more risk vs reward for jumping over walls spam. its hilarious that you think that, when her skillshot is 8 times more easy to evade than xerath, and also has less range than xerath, in the only occasion that you have more range than xerath using zoe, is when u use walls, and sincerely, even if u play a little as a team, you can counter that stun pretty much with no damage, but yeah, still, feeding a zoe with a 9 0 and asking why she does that damage when u run while waiting to sleep, just to give her more damage, is clearly op, not kata, that can damage you, and literaly kill you failing everything that she can fail, thats balanced, lets do more point and click champs, thats clearly balanced shit, elise : 1 stun that can only hit 1 enemy, skillshot, hard to hit, dont pass throung minions and enought burts to kill 1 champ, but only if overfeed, rapel is literaly the worse gap closer in the game, flash out of the area while she is going up, OH, YOU STUNED YOURSELF, gj elise, but yeah, she s broken as %%%% she get a little buff, not realy enought but well i shut myself, then kayn, red form, heal with everything, dash every second, a AREA KNOCK UP WITH STUPID RANGE, THAT AFFECTS EVERYTHING IN THE RANGE a invulneravility that follows flashes and even tps, easy gank because u can simply pass through walls, and THATS balanced, and the damage, enought to kill a squisy using q + att when feed, pd: the q is area damage so you can damage various people with that, then another area, and ult, that is basically, free damage, free invulneravility, and most important, free wait for your cd to come back, so you can destroy another enemy, (also, in red form, a full hp heal) in blue form at least he has no stun, in exchange for a , i dont need to stop moving to destroy your sorry little ass, literaly 3/4 of hp vs a adc with the same score than you still, is more balanced that red one, basically because is a glass cannon that doesnt heal half hp every skill he uses, but my friend cant use kindred because even if he feeds himself, he needs to play 9 times better than the rest so he can make a diference
> [{quoted}](name=greysand,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=8ifJdLBO,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2018-06-19T22:35:43.699+0000) > > its hilarious that you think that, when her skillshot is 8 times more easy to evade than xerath, and also has less range than xerath, in the only occasion that you have more range than xerath using zoe, is when u use walls, and sincerely, even if u play a little as a team, you can counter that stun pretty much with no damage, but yeah, still, feeding a zoe with a 9 0 and asking why she does that damage when u run while waiting to sleep, just to give her more damage, is clearly op, not kata, that can damage you, and literaly kill you failing everything that she can fail, thats balanced, lets do more point and click champs, thats clearly balanced shit, > elise : 1 stun that can only hit 1 enemy, skillshot, hard to hit, dont pass throung minions and enought burts to kill 1 champ, but only if overfeed, > rapel is literaly the worse gap closer in the game, flash out of the area while she is going up, OH, YOU STUNED YOURSELF, gj elise, but yeah, she s broken as %%%% > she get a little buff, not realy enought but well i shut myself, > then kayn, red form, heal with everything, dash every second, a AREA KNOCK UP WITH STUPID RANGE, THAT AFFECTS EVERYTHING IN THE RANGE a invulneravility that follows flashes and even tps, easy gank because u can simply pass through walls, and THATS balanced, and the damage, enought to kill a squisy using q + att when feed, pd: the q is area damage so you can damage various people with that, then another area, and ult, that is basically, free damage, free invulneravility, and most important, free wait for your cd to come back, so you can destroy another enemy, (also, in red form, a full hp heal) > in blue form at least he has no stun, in exchange for a , i dont need to stop moving to destroy your sorry little ass, literaly 3/4 of hp vs a adc with the same score than you still, is more balanced that red one, basically because is a glass cannon that doesnt heal half hp every skill he uses, but my friend cant use kindred because even if he feeds himself, he needs to play 9 times better than the rest so he can make a diference In lane they are equally easy to evade, except Zoe gets no movement penalty, furthermore she can use her ult while casting it to give herself more mobility and can do what ever she wants, compared to Xerath who has to channel his Q with reduced ms. Again yes, Zoes bubble is easy to dodge in lane, if youre getting ganked by a hard CC champ your life suddenly becomes choose how you want to die: Walk into the giant puddle of sleep or avoid it and walk into a stun. And what are you talking about its useless in fights? Ive seen plenty of Zoes be very behind in lane (no where near 9 0) and then oh? a teamfight is happening around drake? Hm, let me just spam my Q at max range for aoe dmg, oh wait i know, ill throw a bubble over this wall on cooldown, oh it hit? Lemme ult over this wall and blow someone up if my team wont. Wee here team have a redemtion, oh great another flash lying over here. Kayn isnt invulnerable during his ult, hes untargetable theres a difference there. His aoe knock up has a very slow cast time with and you as an enemy can see where its going to hit at the end of the animation, same with Xerath actually, not so for Zoe tho. Also Kindred is pretty broken now with the new domination runes idk what your friend is complaining about. But you spam Fizz and LB both of which are pretty broken rn so I understand you dont get the issues of champs that dont have the invulnerability mobility and dmg spell, knock up,dmg and slow aoe ult or invisibility, clones and double flash.
: The silver/bronze botlane meta these days
In silver as well, my primary issue with the meta changes is that half of the players have no idea they happened(?). My adc just wants to safely farm and stay a mile away from the enemy insert mele champ here which always ends with them getting hard dived, or just losing the turret early cause the lane has no pressure on the enemy. The only real pain ive had in bot is laning against Vlad/Nami, sustain for days, immunity, dmg and CC, fun times. I also remember my ashe telling me not to spam q on them as Soraka basically as soon as we came to the Leona Orn lane, and after a minute started screaming at me to do something while she was also refusing to even walk up to the minions cause she was scared.
Rioter Comments
xTigax3 (EUW)
: I don't think Zoe needs to be nerfed, she is strong but the reason she seems op is because nobody abuses her weakness. {{champion:63}} A support that can oneshot any squishy with just ap utility items... {{champion:157}} (just revert the "hotfix" changes) {{champion:44}} I always had him down top tier already before his winrate got so high and before the yi funnel cheese. Now is definitly the time {{champion:91}} (i don't even play him more than once every few weeks but i seem to get fb level 2 every time the enemy dares to go for a single cs once i hit level 2 xD) {{champion:101}} very hard to punish without a jungler and you cant even roam because you basically lose a wave for every roam.
> [{quoted}](name=xTigax3,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=8ifJdLBO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-19T10:48:27.068+0000) > > I don't think Zoe needs to be nerfed, she is strong but the reason she seems op is because nobody abuses her weakness. I think Zoe is impossible to balance with her kit. The issue with her is that she can do too much too safe. You can abuse her in lane early, but come rotations, objectives and teamfights and she just spams in the general direction of the enemy and a bubble will hit and someone will die, or you know just chunk out half of someones hp by randomly spamming Q in the general direction of the enemy. Even in lane after she scales a bit she just shows and farms easy from across the lane with her Q or QR, and gets extra random survivability from her w. I honestly have no idea how to balance this champ, maybe if you give her very low dmg and balance her around being in a support role. Also I think it would be good to make her ult interruptable, where if she gets ccd when she pops up she stays there, it would make it much more risk vs reward for jumping over walls spam.
: Which champion do you want to see nerfed next and why?
No idea how Miss Fortune isnt on this list, she has the highest win rate of any champion in any position atm.

Cake Depression

Level 72 (EUW)
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