: ᴚ Ǝ Λ ᴚ Ǝ S Ǝ H ⊥ X I Ⅎ Ǝ S ∀ Ǝ ˥ Ԁ S Ǝ W O ⅁ O ⊥ I ᴚ ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Doesn't Australia go on a different server region?
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Colyeses,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=UotNcceH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-30T16:30:31.087+0000) > > except no one can bring flash. Do you want to break League of Legends? Because that's how you break the game.
Could be fun to see what the game would look like without it! It's not like URF was in any way shape or form balanced. Hell, it's not like regular SR is in any way balanced.
Rioter Comments
: Why not put all gamemodes ?
At the very least they should -always- have an extra gamemode. Keep SR, TT and HA, and have a fourth mode on rotation.
: Skarner and malz are the two that always force a QSS buy, the two that prob should are Warwick and urgot (little known fact when his ult is pulling you in you can QSS it to get free... if urgot is an issue it’s something you can definitely think about). > And it's easy to say that only the highest gold person needs to sink 1300, but that's the problem, sinking that 1300 might push someone else to the spotlight who then also has to sink 1300. All of this from Mordekaiser's mere presence in the game. He can simply pick and choose which target dies in a teamfight if they don't have QSS. Hell, he can even point-click-kill a tank's influence in the fight. Except that’s exacly what happens with skarner... it’s known as the skarner tax, his presence forces you to buy QSS to counter him which gives a slight gold advantage. Considering the single item completely negates their ults without any counterplay on their end setting you back a bit is s good trade off... no counter play is free. > Also, no target is that low value for Mordekaiser, since he keeps the stolen stats if he gets the kill, making him an even bigger threat when he gets back to the now 5v4. Except it is. Think about it supports have low stats and buy items for actives not stats... so your getting a much lower stat steal from the support. Not to mention the gold difference. Think about it, you ult a support, you’ve got 8k gold while they’ve only got about 4K (not unrealistic)... they use their kits to self peel going a full 5 seconds. That’s 5 seconds where the support has essentially taken 4K worth of gold out of the fight... if your team had a 4K gold advantage then suddenly youve lost the advantage because you ulted the wrong target. Ulting a carry is almost always better unless you have to deny a powerful ability, which is difficult to pull off. That way your not only getting a bigger gold advantage for your team but also taking more stats giving an even bigger gold advantage after the 1v1. Adcs are also the easiest champions for him to kill given their reliance on teammates keeping them safe. A morde who keeps ulting supports will probably loose the game for his team.
Malz begs to differ, because he can easily get interrupted. That's the big difference between Warwick/Skarner/Malz and Mordekaiser: The first three have very serious counterplay outside of QSS, which Mordekaiser doesn't. Urgot is slightly different, but he needs to whittle the target down without his ult before it can work, and then he still needs to land the skillshot. > Except that’s exacly what happens with skarner... it’s known as the skarner tax, his presence forces you to buy QSS to counter him which gives a slight gold advantage. Considering the single item completely negates their ults without any counterplay on their end setting you back a bit is s good trade off... no counter play is free. But Skarner has way more counterplay as well. Movement restrictions hit him harder than Mordekaiser since he has longer reach. Skarner needs to dive deeper, and the deeper he goes, the less value his ult has. Simply walking backwards is harsh (And free!) counterplay to Skarner's ult, and that's assuming he doesn't get hit with any control, which can be applied both before and after the ultimate fires. Morde can only be stopped beforehand. Morde's new ult is really not comparable to these abilities.
: Except the whole team doesn’t need one. Just the ones that matter. He’s unlikely to ult a support, that’s a massive waste of his ult most of the time and while he might be able to kill them they can stall for a lot of time and your team gets to fight a 4v4 having traded top for support. You forget that while he hard ccs the enemy he also effectively does so to himself as well... he’s forced to ult someone who is equal or higher value to him otherwise unless he instantly kills them it hurts his team more than the enemy team... and if he instantly killed them that’s still a waste of a powerful tool. You only need QSS on whoever is ahead... if your top laner is behind no point him getting a QSS him getting ulted benefits you, so long as the one with the gold doesn’t get taken out of the fight. Like I said there’s at least 2 other champions who instantly force everyone important to buy a QSS and it’s kept them balanced for years, and at least 2 others who people prob should buy QSS to counter their ults but it’s rare to see it happen... so it’s not garbage design when it’s been proven to work for years now.
Were the other two supposed to be Malzahar and Warwick? Because the first takes enormous risks in using his ultimate and the second has to land a skillshot. On top of taking enormous risks. On top of having way more counterplay than just a QSS. And it's easy to say that only the highest gold person needs to sink 1300, but that's the problem, sinking that 1300 might push someone else to the spotlight who then also has to sink 1300. All of this from Mordekaiser's mere presence in the game. He can simply pick and choose which target dies in a teamfight if they don't have QSS. Hell, he can even point-click-kill a tank's influence in the fight. Also, no target is that low value for Mordekaiser, since he keeps the stolen stats if he gets the kill, making him an even bigger threat when he gets back to the now 5v4.
: Vel will get one this year probably. Karthus was popular in the jungler earlier this year and still is good so its possible. But xerath is a bunch or rocks connected by blue effects. The only skins possible are recolours. Hes in the same boat as zac.
Xerath can do plenty. Dark Star comes to mind, giving him a wood-grafted skin that reimagines him as the same type of being as Ivern… The blue effects for him are lightning but could be changed to any kind of energy, so Arc-light Xerath could absolutely be a thing, as could some kind of water-form Xerath.
: Riot, please...please give some love to your other cool champions like Xerath, Vel'koz and Karthus.
Those are AP carries. RIOT hates AP carries, so don't hold your breath. Source: Taliyah's three years old and her only skin since launch was forced via tournament.
: {{item:3140}} ... that’s all you need, 1300 gold and you become immune to morde ult. It’s about as high risk as most other suppressions like urgot, against targets that don’t buy QSS or don’t realise it works it lacks counterplay... as soon as you realise you can force him to only have 3 abilities with 1300 gold it’s very good.
It's not 1300 gold, it's 6500 because -everyone- on your team needs one. 20% swing in stats in a SEVEN SECOND hard CC that's not even a skillshot or anything, means that everyone on your team needs one in order to avoid him getting a point-click-kill off. I get what the team was going for, thematically, but the concept of the ultimate is downright demented. It's garbage design.
: Nunu can bring Willump, but Kled can't bring Skaarl
Didn't Valor actually get his name removed from the game? I seem to recall that they originally released as 'Quinn & Valor', but were renamed to stick to conventional champion naming.
Shädäm (EUNE)
: Armor Penetration Boots?
Because AD is objectively better than AP in all regards. Except for the slight minuscule advantage of getting a little bit of pen earlier than AD does.
Smerk (EUW)
: Hp regen is given by Soraka's blessing. And huge HP bar is Juggernaut buff given to one champion during Bardle Royale
I didn't have Soraka's blessing at the time. Nor Warmog's. We didn't have a Soraka to pass on Celerity either. I checked, there was no HP regen source, yet I was still regenerating HP at an unusually high rate.
Smerk (EUW)
: That's exactly how it works.
I've been getting HP regen out of it, and I've seen others with absurdly massive health bars with no discernable source other than 'on fire'.
Smerk (EUW)
: You should check your facts before posting > additional bonus in HP, HP/Mana regen, CDR and adaptive power Grants 20% bonus attack speed, 20 - 200 (based on level) ability power or 12 - 120 (based on level) bonus attack damage (Adaptive), and grants cooldown reduction, 50 mana/energy regeneration per 5 seconds. This also increases the damage taken by 25% for Melee role melee champions and 35% for Ranged role ranged champions. As you can see it gives only offensive stats, while also making target easier to kill
I know that's what it says, but that's definitely not how it works out in-game.
Rioter Comments
: rito, give the man whoever came up with the nunu bot interactions a raise.
No 'Oh great, even stupid bird is here' in response to Anivia. 0/10, trash tier skin.
: Small suggestion: automatically assign summoner spells for current role
RIOT's balancing railroads players into these things anyway, so removing player choice would really only be a formality.
Rioter Comments
: My nerf / buff list for the next patch
{{champion:202}} 's high movespeed from his passive is off-set by the fact that his act speed is extremely low. He has to stop moving for a bit longer than most other characters when he wants to take action, which means that if you're still on him about a second into his speed boost, he has no proper disengage anymore. Furthermore, as a mage, Jhin doesn't scale well into lategame. I think he's in an okay spot. {{champion:427}} is hindered tremendously by the really awkward Brushmaker, and arbitrary limitations on Daisy. Brushmaker appears to be a purely negative passive, where while it says it gives bonus attack range and damage for 3 seconds while in the brush, in reality, the effect is that his basic attack gets a damage penalty and is shortened to melee if he hasn't been in brush for 3 seconds. He's built from the ground up to be ranged (As is evidenced by his low base attack damage and exorbitantly low movespeed) so requiring brushmaker to actually get that ranged attack seems like a really feel-bad way to make Brushmaker actually do something, considering the active effect is... Lackluster. Daisy dying the moment Ivern does is downright awful. There's other strict punishments that can be executed to keep 'kill Ivern' as counterplay, such as keeping her tethered to Ivern's dead body and thus unable to chase well, or having her remaining time tick down three/four times as fast. I find that people underestimate Daisy sometimes, and with support from Ivern, she can actually be pretty disruptive to the enemy team. On the topic of buffs, {{champion:432}} needs really drastic bugfixing on his Cosmic Binding, which currently has a randomised pass-through range. Sometimes it will go for the full length of the shot, sometimes it will not pass through a target at all. Additionally, contrary to what the skillshot indicator states, the shot does not originate from Bard, but rather, it starts a short distance in front of him, which makes it almost unusable in melee confrontations. I'd like to see that fixed.
Rioter Comments
: Why do all my matches have to be so painful.
Because RIOT doesn't balance this game. At all. If you don't play their dev darlings, your chances of winning are virtually zero, unless someone on your team picks one. Unfortunately, when it's a hypercarry on your team, they go 0/15 in three minutes.
: Again, nerfing yasuo won't change the behaviour of those players. They'll still be assholes, they'll just be playing a different champ. And yes, I have played against many yasuos. In fact, I'm usually overjoyed to play vs yasuos since it almost always means an easy lane for me. If you're a melee champ, you should win 1v1s vs yasuo most of the time early game, and if you're not, then he should never be able to hit you with his EQ combo. If you give him that opportunity, it's your fault and yours alone, and the problem therefore isn't yasuo being too strong, it's you not playing well.
What kind of Yasuo's do you go up against? The guy has exceptionally high base movespeed, way too much mobility, reliable hard CC, no resource, and a free shield for 10% of his max HP early on. You're not winning trades against that. He's capable of completely dictating the terms of every engage, because his mobility is too high, you can't bully him out of lane because he has high poke resistance, and his laning stamina is infinite. I'm sorry, but it really sounds like you're going up against Yasuo's that have no clue what they're doing.
: Or you could just learn how to play against him (hint: cc is the key). Also, yasuo's lane phase isn't very strong. Most champions can either just sit back and farm from a safe distance against him without him ever being able to touch them or they straight up beat him 1v1 early game. Playing yasuo has nothing to do with toxicity. If yasuo is gutted those players you are so mad about won't change, they'll just pick a different champ and do the exact same thing *cough vayne cough*.
You must not have played against many Yasuo's then, because you have to remember that he has 6 or 7 dashes available to him every minion wave. No, you can't just stay at range, he'll dash through the wave and hit you with undodgeable hard CC. Also, this is mostly about playing alongside Yasuo's, who, in my case, invariably verbally abuse their teammates and then drag the team down.
Rioter Comments
: Balance team is a joke
LoL's biggest problem is clear 'developer darlings', who are balanced by completely different rules compared to regular champions. Like Yasuo and his four passives, Lux never getting a nerf, Garen and Darius being hypercarries as -tanks-, and more.
Satrap (EUNE)
: Riot Beating around the bush: Vi updates again...
> [{quoted}](name=Suren,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ALs18Fy6,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-18T11:20:54.328+0000) > Scenario B: Vi builds half tank-half damage: Decent teamfight potential; not much dueling potential; so slow and boring to play. This is the bruiser problem though. Bruisers can do lots of things, but they'll be decidedly 'meh' in everything they do. Jack of all trades, master of none. Problem with that is that it isn't flashy, and risks being a drag to play as. However, if you up their potential in either direction, they become overpowered. Bruisers can generally only be balanced either to be balanced, or to be fun, but both is very difficult unless their gameplay design is actually good.
: Which champions are most common among trolls, inters, etc...?
Yasuo. They always try to play solo hypercarry, and when they fail, they start crying about their teammates. Yasuo syndrome is a serious problem.
: > No, because back then it was still a viable option. But it got nerfed down from being an underpowered pick. Whether it is their intention or not, they are enforcing the meta by nerfing the weaker options while leaving the undisputed most powerful summoner spell in its spot. It still is a viable option... it’s strenghs have akways come from it having a shorter cooldown than flash allowing you to punish flash users if you trade summoners... the only thing that has changed is it has a ramp up which only alters how best to use it, it has not diminished its power. Every champion who used to pick it still does... and it’s still one of the common summoner choices in the mid lane... if you can’t get it to work that’s your fault not riot’s > Outside of the fact that the disadvantage you run when you pick ghost instead of flash was drastically increased. Except it hasn’t... ghost has always been used as a ganking or escape tool... it’s stronger than flash as an escape tool when you don’t factor in walls, and in ganks it allows you to trade summoners and then come back when your ghost is up and flash s down allowing for an easy kill. It has its own niche, this is good... it shouldn’t compete with flash in flash’s niche but likewise flash has never been able to compete in ghost’s niche (which is why there are champions who always pick ghost regardless of what happens) > Well, half the champions in the game aren't picked anyway, so who cares? It's not like we lose any kind of gameplay diversity. And nobody picked ghost over flash anyway so we didn’t loose any gameplay diversity there either. Do you see how hypocritical that is... even the most unpopular champions in the game have mains and a player base, why should they get punished for no reason... and those champions have always been more popular than taking ghost over flash... so why should you get special treatment when the rest of community would suffer for what your asking for. Why should the vast majority of the community suffer just so you can pick an already viable summoner. > And as I said, they can rip flash out right now if they just put in some effort to get it out, rather than keep it in. They could've done it even easier back then when it was an emergent problem, but they didn't. And again... too many champions would die... not only that flash helps combat mobility creep so that becomes an issue again. > Their hands aren't tied. They just like playing favourites and forcing players in certain directions. Yeah they are playing favourites... they are favouring champions and the majority of the player base over a summoner and the vast minority. They made the right choice
> it has not diminished its power. How am I supposed to take you seriously at this point? How can you say that instant activation movespeed boost for eight seconds is just as powerful as a slow, two-second ramp-up followed by six seconds of movespeed boost? > it’s stronger than flash as an escape tool when you don’t factor in walls Except it's not. Flash is used for immediate reposition, rather than accumulating the same displacement over about two or three seconds. (Probably around five with the nerf) And that's not calculating, as you mentioned, walls, or the ability to flashdodge, which you can't do with ghost. > Do you see how hypocritical that is... That was the point. If RIOT is fine with having the summoner spell be collateral damage because 'it was underpowered anyway', why not rip out flash and not give a damn about the collateral damage to other champions? Most of them don't get picked anyway. So who cares, right? That's your argument. > they are favouring champions and the majority of the player base over a summoner and the vast minority. They made the right choice They're not favouring the champions, they're favouring Flash. You're deliberately refusing to understand that they can remove flash and simply compensate the champions that would get hurt.
: > That is the problem. WHY have these summoner spells in the first place if they're SO much worse than the rest? Why not just hard-lock the summoner spells according to the champion chosen? Why not just remove the option to pick your summoner spells? They aren’t though... for those that use it ghost is still picked over flash. And ghost is a common secondary summoner in the mid lane. Ghost will never and frankly should never be on the same level as flash as flash is an issue we are stuck with... but ghost has more than enough space in the game asa secondary summoner. Not everything has to compete with flash. > I have always run Ghost/Exhaust and I used to get results with it. Now I just get harassed and I get teammates throwing matches and then blaming me for not picking meta. And you where going to get that regardless of what riot did... it’s not riot enforcing the meta it’s the players... if you ran into those players before the nerfs you’d experience the same. > If RIOT is so keen on enforcing the meta, they should remove the ability to even pick outside of it. If the disadvantage is bad enough to be considered 'throwing', then the spells should just be removed and replaced with hard-locked, pre-set choices. This wishy washy 'we pretend to let you choose' attitude is just garbage-tier game design. Except you can choose... there is nothing stoping you from picking outside of meta and winning... riot will never give you directed buffs because you wouldn’t be a priority but you won’t be punished for it. You ran into toxic players and that’s made you scared to pick off meta... nothing to do with riot. > We can't afford the first flash. RIOT needs to square up and do its damn job. Half the champions in the game would die if riot tried to deal with flash... if not more... most wouldn’t deserve a nerf. Way too many champions rely on flash to do their jobs that if riot was to nerf it your essentially nerfing every champion in the game. At this point riot’s hands are tied... they can’t nerf flash without killing the game.
> And you where going to get that regardless of what riot did... it’s not riot enforcing the meta it’s the players... if you ran into those players before the nerfs you’d experience the same. No, because back then it was still a viable option. But it got nerfed down from being an underpowered pick. Whether it is their intention or not, they are enforcing the meta by nerfing the weaker options while leaving the undisputed most powerful summoner spell in its spot. > Except you can choose... there is nothing stoping you from picking outside of meta and winning... Outside of the fact that the disadvantage you run when you pick ghost instead of flash was drastically increased. > Half the champions in the game would die if riot tried to deal with flash... if not more... most wouldn’t deserve a nerf. Way too many champions rely on flash to do their jobs that if riot was to nerf it your essentially nerfing every champion in the game. At this point riot’s hands are tied... they can’t nerf flash without killing the game. Well, half the champions in the game aren't picked anyway, so who cares? It's not like we lose any kind of gameplay diversity. And as I said, they can rip flash out right now if they just put in some effort to get it out, rather than keep it in. They could've done it even easier back then when it was an emergent problem, but they didn't. Their hands aren't tied. They just like playing favourites and forcing players in certain directions.
: Lissandra is weak
She's an AP character, so she's not designed to be strong, as that is against RIOT's design strategy. Compared to other AP characters, she seems decent enough.
: But the strategic diversity was never there nor will it be there. For ghost to be considered it has to be better than the other options, top will never take it, jungle will never take it, adc will never take it, support will never take it... it’s litterally 4 champions and maybe mid (but it’s competing with 4 other Summoner’s in the mid lane). Ghost is in direct competition with flash... besides the 4 champions who use ghost over flash everyone else get way more value out of flash... for ghost to stand a chance it needs to be buffed to be on flash’s level if not higher... at which point it’s just another problem and needs nerfs (no summoner is ever going to compete with flash, if one is strong enough to compete then that summoner is broken and needs nerfs, we can’t afford a second flash in the game). There was no collateral damage, because there was no strategic diversity coming out of ghost... it has a place in a very small niche and outside of that it has to deal with flash... and that niche is still being occupied with ghost. Ghost is as useful as it was, and gets picked where it always has been picked... so no lose of strategic diversity, because what little it brings is still there.
> For ghost to be considered it has to be better than the other options It doesn't have to be better, it has to be -equivalent-. It is not. It is objectively the worst summoner spell in the game because it doesn't do anything of value anymore. That is the problem. WHY have these summoner spells in the first place if they're SO much worse than the rest? Why not just hard-lock the summoner spells according to the champion chosen? Why not just remove the option to pick your summoner spells? I have always run Ghost/Exhaust and I used to get results with it. Now I just get harassed and I get teammates throwing matches and then blaming me for not picking meta. If RIOT is so keen on enforcing the meta, they should remove the ability to even pick outside of it. If the disadvantage is bad enough to be considered 'throwing', then the spells should just be removed and replaced with hard-locked, pre-set choices. This wishy washy 'we pretend to let you choose' attitude is just garbage-tier game design. > no summoner is ever going to compete with flash, if one is strong enough to compete then that summoner is broken and needs nerfs, we can’t afford a second flash in the game We can't afford the first flash. RIOT needs to square up and do its damn job.
: Well no... ghost will never over take flash... too many champions rely on flash to function, for ghost to actually overtake flash ghost would have to be completely busted. Only 4 champions used it... the 4 needed nerfs so it’s easier and safer to nerf the connecting factor. And any champion who managed to get affected by the changes to ghost who don’t deserve can be buffed... but that was no one. There was no collatoral damage... ghost is still frequently the best option on those that use it, and everyone else just didn’t care because there was already better options for them...
> There was no collatoral damage... ghost is still frequently the best option on those that use it, and everyone else just didn’t care because there was already better options for them... But that IS the collateral damage. Enforcement of meta. Ghost was already a sub-par pick outside those four champions, and it's been nerfed -down- from there. I don't use Flash on principle because of the damage it has done to the game, and now -I- am getting nerfed on account of whichever four champs needed nerfs. There were four champions that were supposedly a problem, but now it's those four champions, -and everyone else- that took a hit in their strategic versatility. Even if the meta would dictate that hit is meaningless, it still enforces that there's specific, unwritten rules by which the game is supposed to be played. If this is how they treat off-meta tactics, they may as well just delete them from the game.
: Flash has been there since alpha... so it’s always been in the game... and it has had some severe nerfs, it’s cooldown has doubled since release and it’s range has been halfed... but it got used on every single champion and now way too many of them rely on it... which makes nerfing it dangerous. Ghost was never on its way to doing that... like I said it’s only frequently picked on 4 champions, and when it was strong it just made the champions who liked it strong, it was never going to integrate. And the new rune for flash doesn’t make it better and is barely ever used. > I'm just both baffled and frustrated with RIOT carrying out such a harsh nerf to ghost when flash/ignite has been must pick since day 1. ignite has never been must pick... only spell that is must pick besides flash is teleport and that’s being nerfed. But nerfing flash nerfs a lot of champions who don’t deserve it, nerfing ghost nerfs a handful of champions who at the time where strong
And it nerfs ghost. It doesn't just nerfs the champions who synergise with it, it nerfs ghost. Which further cements Flash as a must-pick summoner spell. Those four heroes should've been rebalanced individually, rather than passing a sweeping nerf on Ghost, which -could- be used outside those four but can't really anymore. There's a lot of collateral damage with this band-aid balancing approach.
: No... that’s not what I said at all. Flash is too integrated, almost every champion relies on it and nerfing it could easily kill a lot of champions who don’t deserve it. Ghost isn’t integrated at all and only used on a handful of champions, this makes it a balance lever for these champions that can be used to make them weaker or stronger via buffs or nerfs. So it’s recognising what summoner spells affect what... flash affects the entire roster while ghost is only attributed to 4 champions
But at some point, flash wasn't there yet. But it was allowed to continue and integrate into the game. The moment ghost threatens to do the same, to a lesser extent, it was practically removed from the game. And on the flipside, flash got a new rune to make it better. Ghost/Exhaust has always been my go-to combo (At least, after they removed fortify for equally little reason), I prefer it over flash, which just feels like cheating. But now I have to drop ghost because it has become so much worse. In direct combat situations, it is barely usable because a two second wind-up is too long. I'm just both baffled and frustrated with RIOT carrying out such a harsh nerf to ghost when flash/ignite has been must pick since day 1.
: Flash has integrated too fully into the game... way too many champions now rely on it to function and have been balanced around it... to nerf it now would not end well. Ghost started seeing a lot of play but only on a handful of champions, by nerfing ghost you nerf all of its users, so if it’s strong and it’s a lot of it’s users are strong then its a better idea to nerf ghost rather than nerf each champion individually. So flash can’t be nerfed or buffed anymore due to what it’s become... but that doesn’t make other Summoner’s exempt from nerfs as well
So essentially, ghost and flash suffer the exact same issues, but only ghost gets nerfed for it. That's really awful balancing.
Rioter Comments
: Early game your ad means that you are stronger than most adcs, as they don’t have much attack speed or damage... where as you’ve got a guaranteed crit. When they get enough crit chance to start out dpsing you you’ve got 100% crit chance... meaning your faster and more bursty than anyone else. You’ve also not factored in his guaranteed crit... remember it’s an execute, it deal a % of the target’s missing health. This is massive and where a lot of his damage comes from... early game that crit will win a lot of trades, and late game it can kill an adc from half Health easily. That’s why his dps is good, and why he can out burst miss fortune... that 4th shot is easily one of the most damaging auto attacks in the game and more than makes up for the lack of attack speed. And if your still feeling he is lacking... he has been meta before and has been considered the strongest adc in the past... and is one of the strongest at the moment... even if on paper it looks like he doesn’t work he does in game, for whatever reason Also stormrazor is a godsend on him... guaranteed crits on his first and last auto attacks.
Actually, most ADCs have higher damage burst in lane. Jhin's crit only hits for 150% of AD, rather than 200%, which means that a non-crit basic attack from MF deals 50% of AD more than Jhin's crit. Varus' arrow, fully charged, hits 165% AD. Lucian gets a double shot whenever he uses an ability, so that's 150% AD as well. Point is, while Jhin does get more AD, his abilities are so weak and unusable in combat that he can't actually trade well in lane. Short burst skirmishes he usually loses on account of his lack of auxiliary burst, and longer skirmishes he loses due to the reload mechanism. I've noticed that he somewhat comes off the ground with Stormrazor + Rapid Firecannon, but that takes ages to farm up, which is extra difficult on Jhin due to the slow attack speed, reload time, and the amount of pressure the enemy can heap up on an enemy Jhin because Jhin can't contribute in lane. Generally, by the time I have those two items, the match is already a massively uphill battle because other champions managed to farm more, or are doing more with less. I'm used to being able to decimate enemy champions with Xerath about 15 minutes in, with only a Luden's Echo. And that's as support Xerath, so I expect at least a comparable performance from what is allegedly one of the best ADCs in the game.
: The way his passive works equals things out... he gets increased AD from crit chance (which in turn increases his damage out put) and attack speed at the cost of a slow attack speed. This actually means that his dps is the same as any other adc, simply because of the raw damage numbers that Jhin is able to output. So while a normal adc can attack twice as fast as Jhin, Jhin hits twice as hard per auto attack.. making him deal the same damage over a given amount of time. What’s more as it’s burst damage meaning he is much better vs squishy targets than a regular adc, in exchange he is worse vs tanky targets. So he trades off sustained damage for burst, but has the same output... his abilities just allow him to farm (with Q) and stay safe or create picks with the rest. So it works much more elegantly than you might think... but it’s a unique way to play adc and thus gets some getting used to... but once you get the hang of jhin he can be a forced to be reckoned with, with a few good builds for him (can go lethality or crit)
Except that's not true. Assuming +100% attack speed, Jhin gets +25% bonus AD, NOT 100%. Jhin hits 25% harder while other ADCs hit twice as often for the same gold investment. This is not counting the fact that his attack speed is hindered further by reload times. The crit chance is more complicated in calculation because while 40% is converted into AD, his crits deal 25% less damage AND his fourth hit doesn't benefit from crit chance. There's also the interaction between crit chance and attack speed, with higher attack speed causing crit chances to stabilise, whereas lower attack speeds can cause crits to swing wildly, meaning an unlucky Jhin is going to put out -far- less DPS than a lucky one, which isn't as badly the case with other ADCs. I've played about eight matches with him now and have not gotten any results out of him. I'm seeing higher burst values from MF, too (Can hit for 300% total AD with Q and passive).
: Ok, let's start at the basics. His Passive turns literally anything of your adc build that's not ad also into ad, which stacks your pure AD incredibly high. Also, with attack speed you get a lot of movement speed which makes that seemingly immobile adc one of the best choices in repositioning in between auto attacks. He has a guaranteed crit on his 4th auto attack that deals TONS of damage, scaling with missing health which makes him the most effective ranged assassin in the game. He deals like 4 times the amount of damage anyone else would deal with one single auto attack and can kite incredibly well. Just think of it, you have 100% crit in late, so you get incredible movement speed after EVERY SHOT. You're literally THE FAST. His Ult's flat damage might sound "medium" at first, thinking about the fact that it can increase by UP TO 250% and also SLOWING and REVEALING the enemy, it's just insane. Also, the damage is again DOUBLED (scaling with that 250% increase!) on his 4th ult shot. His E is a perfect ability to "ward" out any important objectives and also deals a nice amount of dmg if you W your enemy in it. His W is a free root skill shot with INCREDIBLE range, which is a so god damn good supportive gap-closing ability for your team. (also, you can use his ult easily to initiate huge team fights from long range)
I get that he's somewhat better at repositioning between auto-attacks, but it doesn't help his DPS. Ordinary ADCs just rely on lifesteal and exorbitant damage output for survivability, which makes Jhin's small movespeed bonuses seem frail by comparison. Also, Jhin gets only 25% of any attack speed he builds actually applied to his DPS, so it seems like building more attack speed, while it may improve your movespeed bonus on crits by a little bit, will harm your damage output quite badly. His ult's flat damage doesn't exactly sound medium, it sounds abysmal. The initial damage per shot is 50, which is the same as level 1 deadly flourish. And yeah, it scales up to 250% of the base damage, but that just puts it roughly on par with what Xerath puts out. Only Xerath's shots can't be blocked, and they're AoE. Also, a portion of that 250% is inapplicable. After all, getting a full 250% bonus doesn't really matter if your target has 1 HP. The fourth shot does seem quite potent, but the limited range and coverage area of his ultimate seem to make that an absolute nightmare to use effectively. Enemies have about five seconds to prepare for it, after all. Not many enemies who can't get out of your line of sight by that point. What are you even supposed to build on him? I had someone recommend Stormrazor, but since Jhin scales poorly with attack speed and his crits are weakened, it seems like a pretty bad pick.
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