: > [{quoted}](name=Conphucius,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=UUOUJQNd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-29T15:13:33.467+0000) > > loving the contradiction here.... > > regardless of whether or not the support taking a few CS (was it a relic shield user by any chance?) YOU flaming him is 'ruin others games, provoke and troll' too no, taking all. constantly. but as all league player you always accuse the worst and refuse to see that someone might complain for a good reason. typical. not surprised.
regardless of whether you think you are justified, it is still considered flaming, which is against the rules ever heard the phrase '2 wrongs don't make a right'?
: not player, but RIOT behaviour
> if i tell my support to stop farm 10times, but he doesn´t. call him a troll. i am not toxic. he is! i am just speaking out the truth! >you should stop protecting this whiney spoiled kids! facts are facts. so finally do something about people intentionally ruin others games, provoke and troll. loving the contradiction here.... regardless of whether or not the support taking a few CS (was it a relic shield user by any chance?) YOU flaming him is 'ruin others games, provoke and troll' too
: When will Ornn get a skin??
according to https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Skin_catalog there are 30 champions who have gone longer without a skin, for ornn it has been 736 days since his last skin, for skarner its been 1585 days (4.3 years) since his last.
: Rename ADC as ADT or ADF for low elo
meanwhile, lets call the 'high elo' ADCs 'ADWASC' (Attack Damage With A Superiority Complex)
: I reported someone for having a negative attitude, but they called me a "dumb ni**er" afterwards.
post game lobby? or after the game he added you as a friend to insult you?
: Ban
> lmToxic StayAway: atleat i wont get banned like you oh the irony
: But call community Garbage (and other stuff) isn't the best way to express your dissatisfaction.
: Apparently what i said is toxic, but outright trolling games, spam pinging me and insulting isn't
you were punished for your own behaviour (the incredibly (imo) toxic chat), not what your team may or may not have done.
: ahri E
i would assume it increases the damage of the return hit by 20%, and then converts it to true damage edit: a quick look at https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Ahri in the info for her E it specifically states The damage amplification also affects the true damage portion of Orb of Deception
Shamose (EUW)
: > First of all I dont flame just because I want to, they were provoking it from me, Im not murdering people because I want to, but the voices command me.
> [{quoted}](name=Shamose,realm=EUW,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=bGV72tfL,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-16T11:45:19.758+0000) > > Im not murdering people because I want to, but the voices command me. if you didnt want to, it would be manslaughter, murder requires intent to kill
: global ultimates on level 1 afk!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4-BFyYMDcA
: Who is justifying anything? --- Afks are punished btw, even if not as hard as toxic people. If you were to be put in the situation where you'd need to call for a punishment in 100 cases, what do you think would your sucess-rate be? 50%? 60%? 100%? I'd argue that you'll most likely hit 50% since most people are not "running it down" but covering it in one way or another. How do you expect current automated systems to have comparable performance to humans? This, of course, is no justification for trolls not being punished, but it's not an ignored problem. You could just type out what your alternative to this system is.
> How do you expect current automated systems to have comparable performance to humans? and this right here is my point if the automated system is not picking up toxicity, then maybe, i dont know, find something different? but Riot continue to hide behind 'its automated, how can you expect it to be as good as a human' > You could just type out what your alternative to this system is. or alternativly, the people paid by Riot to do just that could, you know, do their job...
: Type out your thoughts already, bud.
i was just wondering if the 'they are automated' was a justification as to why chat is punished but feeding/afk isnt....
: > It's literally favouritism because the people who handle the player behaviour system are lonely people. just to point out that no single person is responsible for punishment.
except if it were automated, that would mean noone looks into it right?
: 1. The system is automated 2. Riot views cases of toxicity separately - no matter what others say, if you slip up and flame or engage in any kind of toxic behaviour you'll be punished.
> [{quoted}](name=HIVSuperposition,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=1IkAobd3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-14T14:29:26.647+0000) > > 1. The system is automated your point?
xFrosten (EUW)
: I think it's pretty ignorant of you to deny that people can be THAT bad. You don¨t know who is sitting behind the other players screen, and they do not deserve to get punished, just because you feel like they don't know enough about the game. Let me give you an example. The player in the world who has the most mastery points on Heimerdinger (8 million+) is actually braindamaged. Like legit braindamaged from an accident, he plays the game and of course his plays are insanely bad. But that's just because he doesn't know better. What is logical thinking for you, might not be as logical for other players and going 0 10 or the likes does not mean that they automatically intentionally feed. Intelligence is also something that varies a lot from person to person, so believing that there is no one more unintelligent than you, is just purely wrong. As for the scores, I checked your match history and you have 2 games that would classify as intentional feeding (at least with your logic). You played Ezreal both games scores: 0 7 5 3 8 5 It might not be as many deaths as them, but from 8 deaths to 11, there is not a huge difference. And also I don't know how long the different games lasted. Lastly if you feel like you deserve a higher rating and you play without tilting, then you will naturally climb, one game is not gonna ruin that for you.
> The player in the world who has the most mastery points on Heimerdinger (8 million+) is actually braindamaged. Like legit braindamaged from an accident, he plays the game and of course his plays are insanely bad. does he play public matchmade games? or does he play with friends?
x Akali (EUNE)
: Problem with autofill protection and remake.
working as intended, all autofill protection does is give you one of your 2 prefered roles in the next 2 lobbies (which as you say yourself it did). if you/your team decide to remake, thats on you
KerberosFi (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Conphucius,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=EhV1EEAT,comment-id=00000001000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-12T12:04:54.597+0000) > > and that right there is the issue > > they claim that they DO NOT TOLERATE certain phrases, but then when you use them, they are tolerated, and Riots excuse 'hurr hurr it was private chat hurr hurr' > > you realise that 'cant' and 'wont' are 2 comletely different words, its not that they CANT moderate private chat, its that they WONT because of policy, and even after TOLERATING those words they maintain they dont tolerate them (by saying the have a zero tolerance towards those phrases which is PROVABLY false) > > except private chats are within the game client, and discord is completely seperate, nice false analogy :) > > through THEIR OWN CHOICE, using the privacy policy as a shield, and yet even with 'no control' as you say, they still maintain that those phrases are zero tolerance... why is this? First, It isn't their choice. They can either have private chat or not have it. There isn't middleway option like "private, but with moderating". No-one else is supposed to see the messages in private chat, hence the term private. Riot is offering platform for the private messages but isn't affecting the actions on platform in any shape or form. Much like Google is moderating public chat on Youtube, they won't moderate whatever you write through Gmail. That would besides be illegal for them. While I have no knowledge how in legal terms League of Legends' private chat functions, I don't think it would be stretch to assume it may at least seem questionable in juridical view if they claim they have private chat section, and then silently watch what is going on in it. Secondly, Read my whole text, not just sentences. The reason I compared private chat into discord is because they behave exactly alike. Riot emplyee isn't supposed to know what you say/write in discord, Riot employee isn't supposed to know what you write in private chat. Don't try to use fallacies, please. They aren't making you look any better. And finally to repeat myself, the words mentiones (k** etc.) are 0 tolerance, because upon Riot employee or system detecting them they may lead to instant punishment. Read the confidentiality article. In private chat you are allowed to say whatever you want, but in public chat not. In eyes of Riot the things said in private chat were never said.
> First, It isn't their choice. They can either have private chat or not have it. so they dont have a choice, but they have a choice... awesome contradiction right there... > Riot is offering platform for the private messages but isn't affecting the actions on platform in any shape or form. they are offering a chat system then completely distancing themselves from any toxicity in said chat, all while at the same time maintaining that certain phrases are zero tolerance, even though they are tolerated, again nice contradiction > Much like Google is moderating public chat on Youtube, they won't moderate whatever you write through Gmail yet google dont go around saying phrases that are tolerated are zero tolerance > The reason I compared private chat into discord is because they behave exactly alike. doesnt make it any less of a false analogy, Riot dont police discord because they CANNOT, however they WONT police 'private' chat because .... reasons. see the difference, i would concede this point if for some reason Riot COULDNT police 'private' chat, but thats not the case, they CHOSE not to > And finally to repeat myself, the words mentiones (k** etc.) are 0 tolerance, repeating it doesnt make it true, the FACT of the matter is, those phrases ARE tolerated in 'private' chats, therefore calling those phrases zero tolerance is a flat out LIE > In eyes of Riot the things said in private chat were never said. again with the contradiction, things that WERE said, WERE NOT said.... ok
KerberosFi (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Conphucius,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=EhV1EEAT,comment-id=000000010001000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-12T10:47:56.099+0000) > > so lets take a look at Glurch's first sentence > > > if there are cases where this doesnt happen (as implied by the statement 'doesnt have to be the case') how can this even remotely be called ZERO tolerance.... when there IS a place it is tolerated How many times does it have to be explained: Riot doesn't moderate private messages, due to their privacy policy. This means for Riot these discussions you had in private chat never happened, no matter if they are screenshotted or what. Private chat is in this sense the same as if you had discussion with another person in discord etc. Riot has no control over it because having control over it would contradict their privacy policy. It is much like [confidentiality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality) as situation. However, the second you step into game lobby you are in public chat. Chat that is moderated by Riot. Chat in which K-word can almost instantly get you banned. Therefore K-word is 0 tolerance word.
> How many times does it have to be explained: Riot doesn't moderate private messages, due to their privacy policy. and that right there is the issue they claim that they DO NOT TOLERATE certain phrases, but then when you use them, they are tolerated, and Riots excuse 'hurr hurr it was private chat hurr hurr' you realise that 'cant' and 'wont' are 2 comletely different words, its not that they CANT moderate private chat, its that they WONT because of policy, and even after TOLERATING those words they maintain they dont tolerate them (by saying the have a zero tolerance towards those phrases which is PROVABLY false) > Private chat is in this sense the same as if you had discussion with another person in discord etc. except private chats are within the game client, and discord is completely seperate, nice false analogy :) > Riot has no control over it through THEIR OWN CHOICE, using the privacy policy as a shield, and yet even with 'no control' as you say, they still maintain that those phrases are zero tolerance... why is this?
GLurch (EUW)
: Now you're acting like it's completely false, which it isn't. Riot doesn't tolerate these words in the game, which is why they punish for them. You're just overcomplicating things. It's like having a debate over whether or not the earth is round. Yeah, it isn't round, it's an oblate spheroid/ellipsoid, but saying it's round is easier for everyone and everyone still understands it, plus it's not completely wrong either.
> Now you're acting like it's completely false, which it isn't. except it is false.... 'zero tolerance' =/= 'we will tolerate it in some places but in others we wont... because policy' > Riot doesn't tolerate these words in the game last i checked, the client was part of the game... > It's like having a debate over whether or not the earth is round. Yeah, it isn't round, it's an oblate spheroid/ellipsoid so it IS NOT round, but lets call it round anyway... shot yourself in the foot there didnt you? > but saying it's round is easier for everyone and everyone still understands it, plus it's not completely wrong either. just because its 'easier' doesnt make it right (as you yourself stated ' Yeah, it isn't round, it's an oblate spheroid/ellipsoid') and yes it is completely wrong, round =/= oblate sheroid
E420 (EUW)
: I am not exactly sure how "rules" are working outside the game (like client in this case), thus have no opinion on that. I think GLurch gave a decent overal description on zero tolerance.
so lets take a look at Glurch's first sentence > "Zero tolerance words" in League of Legends refer to words that can (doesn't have to be the case) get you the harshest possible punishment for a first offense in toxicity, which is a 14 days ban. Death threats, along with homophobic slurs, racist slurs and so on belong to that category. if there are cases where this doesnt happen (as implied by the statement 'doesnt have to be the case') how can this even remotely be called ZERO tolerance.... when there IS a place it is tolerated
: Theres a rotating Circle around ur Ping (top left corner)
i have disconnected in the loading screen before and the circle was still going round.... it means nothing
: Wow you really don't want to believe or even concider anything that goes against your beliefs lol, in that case just keep believing whatever you want and I'll just see my way out > even in a court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty, but in this situation, you seem to imply that i am guilty (of doctoring the screenshots) and they choose not to even attempt to prove the innocence (that the screenshots are genuine) because.... policy..... No offense but this is absolutely %%%%%%ed, the person that provides evidence isn't the defendant, they are not guilty or innocent, but that doesn't mean that a court is just gonna accept anything you give them as the truth, your claims are gonna be verified and if there's no way for them to verify those claims then they can't be accounted for, which is exactly the same here
> the person that provides evidence isn't the defendant because a defendant is not given due process right? i mean they are not interviewed in a police station and never asked what happened, and therefore they cannot give any evidence right? > your claims are gonna be verified and if there's no way for them to verify those claims then they can't be accounted for, which is exactly the same here last i checked 'no way for them to verify those claims' and ' it's against their policy to look into those messages' were 2 completely different things, which is it?
GLurch (EUW)
: If we're exactly going by the dictionary for every little word, like ultra precisely, you're going to create more misunderstandings than you originally wanted to clear up. Most players understand it and if you do just a little research, you'll understand the phrase as well. It's just easier than for *everyone* (both the players and Riot Games) to say "words that can cause an immediate 14 day ban, but don't necessarily have to, and only apply to the in-game, pre-game and post-game chat".
so lets just call it something it isnt... much better right?
: the difference is that it was your choice to add this person and start talking to them in the first place, you should have known what you were getting yourself into, unlike when you just want to play a game and you randomly have people being toxic to you There are plenty of reasons why they wouldn't punish over private message screenshots : - The first and biggest reason would be that the screenshots could be forged and therefore not valid evidence, they would need to check the messages themselves to verify your evidence, which would be against their policies - Even if you do show them screenshots of private messages, it's against their policy to look into those messages, regardless of the sources and therefor acknowledging those messages would be a violation of their policy if that makes sense - The ban system isn't adapted to that kind of situation, riot would need to rebuild their reform system so that it includes private messages as reason for the ban in the refom card, which at the same time would cause an uproar if this came to light as it would be seen as if riot had violated their privacy policy Try to actually think about these things from riot's perspective instead of just seing everything as evidence that they're some kind of liars
> the difference is that it was your choice to add this person and start talking to them in the first place, you should have known what you were getting yourself into, i could just as well say 'it was your decision to hit the play button, you should have known what you were getting yourself into' > unlike when you just want to play a game and you randomly have people being toxic to you how is 'adding a random person' any different to 'being matched with a random person after ACTIVLY MAKING THE DECISION to hit the play button > The first and biggest reason would be that the screenshots could be forged and therefore not valid evidence, they would need to check the messages themselves to verify your evidence, which would be against their policies even in a court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty, but in this situation, you seem to imply that i am guilty (of doctoring the screenshots) and they choose not to even attempt to prove the innocence (that the screenshots are genuine) because.... policy..... > Even if you do show them screenshots of private messages, it's against their policy to look into those messages, regardless of the sources and therefor acknowledging those messages would be a violation of their policy if that makes sense yet they still maintain that the phrases are 'zero tolerance' when, due to their own (stupid) policy they are forced to tolerate those same phrases... how can you not see the massive contradiction here > The ban system isn't adapted to that kind of situation, riot would need to rebuild their reform system so that it includes private messages as reason for the ban in the refom card, which at the same time would cause an uproar if this came to light as it would be seen as if riot had violated their privacy policy again, why do they maintain that the phrases are zero tolerance when that is NOT the case
: Riot does not look at people's private messages, it's part of their privacy policy You can't say a word isn't zero tolerance because it isn't punished when riot isn't aware it's been used
except i have personal experience that leads me to belive that the word IS NOT zero tolerance. i put in a ticket about someone that i added after a match telling me to kill myself, wishing my family dead and wishing i had cancer and ebola. Riots first 'excuse' was what you describe 'its private chat we dont know what was said, therefore we will do nothing'. When i mentioned the screenshot i had sent with the ticket, the 'excuse' suddenly changed, to 'its private chat, you could have left at any time'. When i asked the support agent to justify chat bans (if, being able to leave a private chat is reason enough not to punish so called zero tolerance phrases, why then is the mute button not reason enough to not punish so called zero tolerance phrases, again, isnt this a massive contradiction) he closed the ticket with no answer
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: Private chats are PRIVATE Riot has no control over private chats We're talking about ingame chat here, not private chat Sure, riot should punish people for private messages too imo, but they choose not to And in private messages people can joke around with their friends without the pressure and threat of other random people seeing it and being offended etc. So i can understand why private messages wouldn't be punishable So it's kind of a hit or miss situation
> Private chats are PRIVATE Riot has no control over private chats and Riot has not control over in game chat either (as evidenced by people using such phrases) tell me, why is one punished but the other not? > We're talking about ingame chat here, not private chat we are talking about whether or not '%%%' is zero tolerance or not, and being that the phrase IS tolerated somewhere within the client, to call it 'zero tolerace' is misleading at best, a flat out lie at worst > Sure, riot should punish people for private messages too imo, but they choose not to so they choose not to punish it in certain places, but maintain that the phrase is 'zero tolerance' isnt this a contradiction?!? > And in private messages people can joke around with their friends without the pressure and threat of other random people seeing it and being offended etc. So i can understand why private messages wouldn't be punishable are you trying to imply the phrase is subjective? why then is it punished?
GLurch (EUW)
: "Zero tolerance words" in League of Legends refer to words that *can* (doesn't have to be the case) get you the harshest possible punishment for a first offense in toxicity, which is a 14 days ban. Death threats, along with homophobic slurs, racist slurs and so on belong to that category. On the other hand, if you're just being "normal toxic", as in, you call others idiots, noobs and so on, question their mental health, shout at them to stop feeding and all that kind of stuff, you'll start off with a 10 Games Chat Restriction. If you continue this behavior, you get a 25 Games Chat Restriction and only after that do you get the 14 day ban, which writing these "zero tolerance words" can get you as the very first punishment already. For clarification, after a 14 day ban comes a permanent ban, although the next offense doesn't necessarily have to be that, if you prove yourself to be reformed over enough games, it's possible you'll start at a 10 Games Chat Restriction again.
then maybe the name should be changed 'zero tolerance' has heavy conotations that Riot's tolerance levels for these phrases is zero, naught, nil, nothing etc etc. if the phrase IS tolerated somewhere within the game (private chats) it, by definition is NOT zero tolerance
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: I mean, the word isn't tolerated at all in league. So yes, it's 0 tolerance If you say the K word, you'll get punished if (when) the system detects it, most likely with a 14 day ban or a perma ban but sometimes with a chat restriction if you have 0 negativity in your history (At least that's what some mods etc have said, but dunno how true that is)
> I mean, the word isn't tolerated at all in league really??? care to explain private chats?
E420 (EUW)
: That phrase is zero tolerance, ask support members through a ticket. Automated system automatically flags it and boom, banned in less than a minute.
> That phrase is zero tolerance, ask support members through a ticket. Automated system automatically flags it and boom, banned in less than a minute. i have defined 'zero tolerance' above, would you agree with that statement?
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: Wym ''false information'' The K word is on the top of the list of ''words that are 0 tolerance in league'' You're literally telling someone to end their life by saying that And league has no tolerance for that
before continuing, please define zero tolerance to me, this means that phrase is not tolerated AT ALL, any instance results in punishment would you agree?
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: 0 tolerance words are an instant 14 day ban How tf can the K word be taken out of context??
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=EhV1EEAT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-11T11:31:40.122+0000) > > 0 tolerance words are an instant 14 day ban > > How tf can the K word be taken out of context?? while i agree with what you say, please dont continue to spread false information, that phrase is NOT zero tolerance
Gerbster (EUW)
: How do you say Veigar?
isnt it one of Tristanas voice lines? she pronounces it VEYgar
Rëxxar (EUNE)
: oh you are right. Thank you!
as an aside to this, you can only have a maximum of 4 available at any one time (just in case you didnt know)
Rëxxar (EUNE)
: how do i know then if i can earn chests right now or not? is it mentioned somewhere in my profile tab?
on the profile tab, in the lower left corner are 3 icons, the left most (the chest icon) shows how many are available, and on mouseover tells you when your next one becomes available :)
Rëxxar (EUNE)
: I'm not getting any loot chests, help please!!
you can only get a certain amount (4 i think) each month, this might be your issue
Xalin (EUW)
: Keep defending Rito, if I call you that you are slave of them would that be offensive ? Just asking. Also nobody understood what I tried to explain there, its not irony at all. People try to search a reason to get offended and can easily get offended for anything here.
as per https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/announcements-en/3eWpXbJi-universal-boards-rules-updated-27-04-16 > Threads or comments that are created with the intention to create a strong negative or emotional reaction, provoke conflict etc, are considered trolling. Debating a topic, or holding a strong opinion on a topic is acceptable,** however making posts simply to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you is not.** Please do not respond to attempts to provoke, troll or bait you. Posts you feel violate the Universal guidelines should be reported using the "Report" button. your post was trying to provoke whomever you were replying to into an argument, which as it is against the board rules, was deleted. i am not trying to defend anyone, i am merely pointing out that the post was removed for a valid reason.
Xalin (EUW)
: I can't show you why I wrote this reply to that comment because I can't find the comment he probably deleted it. You called me kid and I find this offensive btw lets see if report system works for you.
> Also there are so many kids who get offended by everything I say. and in the very next post > You called me kid and I find this offensive isnt this ironic?
Xalin (EUW)
: People get offended by everything here
i can see from the screenshot the comment brought nothing to whatever conversation you were in, and was used to insult someone.... stop being such a kid and accept that you did wrong
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Yasashi Kokoro,realm=EUW,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=aao7manK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-07T18:10:41.852+0000) > > Oh I think they are using the month/day/year system which would make it 8th july
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Conphucius,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=788jEnmU,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-05T15:51:10.587+0000) > > surely this would only happen if he was walking on his hands right? are you trying to be funny?
genuine question how can he STEP on it and have it go through his FINGER without walking on his hands
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: hurt ego had a thresh go 1/18 to try and lose the game at the moment he realized we were actually going to win without him he left the game funny guy i hope he steps on a nail and it goes through his pinky finger
> funny guy i hope he steps on a nail and it goes through his pinky finger surely this would only happen if he was walking on his hands right?
: no not subjective just judging winrates of "high skillcap" champs low elo is usually silver to iron
except it IS subjective, what a plat player sees as high/low ELO would be very different to a bronze players views this is the very definition of subjective
: I didn’t edit it? Not sure what your seeing but I really don’t care about this enough to edit it... and if I do edit something I put EDIT or cross things out. Chances are you just misread what I wrote originally. And I did say that you are right, though it is still possible to reduce stuff below 0, not far past but still possible. And again I was at no point saying you could, you where the one who was constantly saying you can’t, I was saying it was possible to reduce it to 0
i concede you havnt edited them, i thought you had edited your post, turns out the thing i thought you edited out was from an earlier post by you, my bad, sorry for the accusation :( > And again I was at no point saying you could so you didnt say > With some % reduction thrown in as well you can reduce any champion who hasn’t built any armour to below 0. So it’s beyond theoretical this is actually what assasins do every game.
Salron88 (EUW)
: i dont care about her marks what i care about its her kit. she jumps in and out are a problem when you are a melee champion. you cannot reach her. she is ranged and has multiple jumps. that needs a fix.
> Doesn’t change the fact that this particular descussion had nothing to do with reducing a champion past 0, just to 0... which is completely possible. this is a contradiction, you dont care about her marks, but you do care about her kit, a part of which is the marks... > she jumps in and out are a problem when you are a melee champion. her W has a CD of 18 secs at rank 1 and 14 secs at max, she (normally) doesnt max it first, so early game it has a long CD, bait it out then jump on her while its on CD.... her jump, at lvl 1 has a 9 sec CD (reduced to 5 secs at rank 1 while in the W so its not as though she is jumping like kalista... on a side note, why are you not %%%%%ing about kalista, she jumps far more than kindred...) it is only 2 secs at max rank while in her W (and 9 secs without, the W is scaling CD reduction so the CD (when in her W) is (at 1/2/3/4/5 rank) 4/3.5/3/3.5/2 sec
: Ok I was incorrect about that... (it’s still possible though, you just need rengar and corki... level 9 corki with E max and rengar with level 1 ult can reduce a target by 32 armour, kassadin at level 6 is an armour of 30... so that will reduce it to -2 meaning it is possible if you jump through enough hoops... thresh can also have this happen). Doesn’t change the fact that this particular descussion had nothing to do with reducing a champion past 0, just to 0... which is completely possible.
> Doesn’t change the fact that this particular descussion had nothing to do with reducing a champion past 0, just to 0... which is completely possible. i love how you have gone back and edited your posts to make it look like you didnt claim it was possible on many champs to reduce targets below 0, and that you have changed your answer to mention rengar needs corki's max rank E to reduce the champion with the 4th lowest base armor in the game (and of the bottom 4, the lowest armor/level growth) to a whopping -2
: You might not be but that’s what Talquin was saying, hence why I commented saying it was possible on more champions than just Darius. And it can be reduced below, rengar can do it... but I was never arguing that it could be reduced to below 0, just that it can be reduced to 0... you butted into a discussion without realising what was being discussed.
i cant see how rengar can do it.... assuming he builds black cleaver for the 24% armor reduction, and then all lethality items/mastery (for 81 flat pen @ lvl 18) he has 24% reduction from cleaver he has 24 flat reduction from his ult he has 81 pen from items/mastery assuming a target has 100 armor (for ease of calculation) the cleaver will reduce this to 76 armor the flat reduction will reduce it further to 52 and, being that penetration CANNOT reduce armor below 0, 29 penetration from the lethality items is wasted how does rengar get below 0 (on a target with 100 armor) Edit: just looked back at your past posts in this discussion, and i have to ask, do you know that reduction is calculated BEFORE penetration? you seem to assume the lethality from items comes off and then ramining armor is reduced by the 'armor reduction' stat, this is not the case
: > only 'armor reduction' (think Garens E, or black cleaver for example) can reduce a targets armor below 0, armor pen gets to 0 and stops. True that only reduction from champions works, but Talquin was talking about reducing it to 0, which I’m showing is very easy to do. > nope, duskblade give 21 lethality, which, at lvl 18 would be 21 flat penetration > Flat Armor Penetration = LETHALITY × (0.6 + 0.4 × level ÷ 18) That is talking about level 1 vs level 18... showing the extreme, the next paragraph shows it being possible at level 18 with a proper lethality build. > only if the reduction you get totals over 100%, anything less than 100% will reduce the armor by whatever %age it, and then your penetration will be taken into account, and as pen cant reduce a targets armor below 0, anything over the point to get to 0 (on the pen side of things) is wasted stats Firstly this is again in relation to it being possible to reduce it to 0. Secondly talking about combining % pen and flat pen (aka lethality) to reliably reduce anyone who hasn’t brought armour to 0, and probably most people who have brought armour with enough of it. ___ I did word this badly but it’s just showing that any champion can get enough lethality to reduce a champion to 0 armour, not only being possible on Darius.
> Firstly this is again in relation to it being possible to reduce it to 0. so why did you say > With some % reduction thrown in as well you can reduce any champion who hasn’t built any armour to **below** 0 > ` > Secondly talking about combining % pen and flat pen (aka lethality) to reliably reduce anyone who hasn’t brought armour to 0, and probably most people who have brought armour with enough of it i am not arguing that armor cannot be reduced TO 0, i AM arguing however that it cannot be reduced BELOW 0
: Hmmm.. i'm quite interesting in where you are getting the number 81 from. Duskblade is 21 lethality Ghost blade and EON is 18. And buying an extra dirk is 10. Armour pen doesn't increase the amount of Flat pen you have so where else am i going to get the extra 14 lethality you are talking about? Do you mean sudden impacts lethality too?
duskblade (21) ghost blade/edge of night (18) dirk (10) youmuus (when upgraded by ornn) (25) sudden impact (7) for a total of 81
: It is possible... for example kassadin has 19 armour at level 1, duskblade ignores 21 armour. So that alone would mean it’s possible in theory crafting Level 18 his armour is 66, highest amount of possible lethality is 81, so that’s negative numbers as well. With some % reduction thrown in as well you can reduce any champion who hasn’t built any armour to below 0. So it’s beyond theoretical this is actually what assasins do every game.
> It is possible... for example kassadin has 19 armour at level 1, duskblade ignores 21 armour. So that alone would mean it’s possible in theory crafting nope, duskblade give 21 lethality, which, at lvl 18 would be 21 flat penetration Flat Armor Penetration = LETHALITY × (0.6 + 0.4 × level ÷ 18) only 'armor reduction' (think Garens E, or black cleaver for example) can reduce a targets armor below 0, armor pen gets to 0 and stops. > With some % reduction thrown in as well you can reduce any champion who hasn’t built any armour to below 0. So it’s beyond theoretical this is actually what assasins do every game. only if the reduction you get totals over 100%, anything less than 100% will reduce the armor by whatever %age it, and then your penetration will be taken into account, and as pen cant reduce a targets armor below 0, anything over the point to get to 0 (on the pen side of things) is wasted stats
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Conphucius

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