: No The entire idea about morde is that he is a champion with no cc nor gap closers and he needs to stay like this... he needs to get around this issue in other ways but adding cc and mobility literally ruins everything riot wants for morde and ruins everything morde is. So that means both your Q and E can't happen... his Q can't have a gap closer on it and his E really can't have that much cc not even the slow. So it's a good attempt but you've taken it the wrong way, you need to look at how you can overcome kiting without defaulting to cc and mobility... That's what is special about morde, he should stick to people in a unique way without compromising what he is.
well it has a slow anyway since rylai's is core, so there's never going to be a point in which he isn't going to slow with it at some point in a game, i don't really see the harm champions with no gapclosers, range or cc are generally pretty shit though so i'm wondering how long they'll keep him in a state of unviability do appreciate the input, though
Rioter Comments
Sayainji (EUW)
: It's a new Meta in high elo, Vayne's passive will not apply on other targets as long as you focus your main target + the bolts from hurricane can apply crit + faster heal with bloodthirster and faster wave clear
wish it'd stay in high elo lol
Doomley (EUW)
: voyboy built it on top vayne for the wave clear and frozen mallet aoe slow. Other than that, it's not any better than it used to be on her.
glad i have someone to blame for the vaynes building it now, thanks
Rioter Comments
: Darius pull is also a stun?
it's too fast to qss unless you're quick, but it'll also stun you as someone who mains darius, my only advice is to stay away from him or bait out his e first, it has a long cooldown and very short range (also, for some reason, his e can go clean through people and not pull them??)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
raized (EUW)
: You'll meet flamers and afkers everywhere, it's not just EUW. Although, some servers has actually more flamers than another and EUW is one of the most toxic.
Oh yeah, definitely, I expect flamers everywhere, but they're pretty concentrated in EUW I think.
Rioter Comments
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: C'mon, I played Garen vs Ashe + Shaco bot in a normal and had 0 problems making a double kill. Or you gonna blame Garen for being Garen?
you realise a: garen breaks free of slows and b: that chasing her is easy compared to escaping
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: 25% slow at level 18. The critical slow (50%) diminishes over the duration and you never really feel it being too much, especially if you're Lee Sin / Jax / Yasuo / Malphite / Leona or anyone similar.
it's still incredibly annoying to deal with and that's still a heavy MS loss to try and run with
Tennoko (EUW)
: Hmmmm let me think. Item: fm, rylai's etc. . Ok just tell me do you really really think you lose against ashe cause she is soo super OP or don't you think maybe you missplay. Just make an example in which matchup the kit off ashe is so broken. Proof your point pls .
Tennoko (EUW)
: ***
it's a permanent slow for free from a high range no other champion has that
Tennoko (EUW)
: Than you should play ashe and try to kite down tankys or play against bruisers who can actually jump on you. Actually ashe is one off the most exhausting champs to play with high mechanics, cause normaly you have to kite every shit that comes near you.
it's not being kited that's the problem, it's being unable to escape if the tides are turned
: If league was easy they would call it League of everyone is diamond, it is hard to keep up with people but kled doesn't always have to target the adc, sometimes he can get what he needs from attacking tanks. All you need to do if find a target and wreck shit
league IS easy, it's not a hard game to get behind, but even if it were THAT easy then the people better than the player would hold them back ranged toplaners and junglers are also a thing, a very annoying thing
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T10:30:52.475+0000) > > i did what i usually do for darius and go cleaver > plate/randuins etc > titanic (not that i get this on darius) > i just didnt feel like i hurt at all I go botrk against darius.
no i mean i go what i just said when i PLAY darius
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T10:10:58.980+0000) > > it could just be because i've yet to face a melee champion, but i feel like if i were to pick garen or darius or olaf i'd be able to fight him anyway because he doesnt feel like he outputs that much > > i do think that he'd be stupid if he was strong, given that for some reason riot thought it was a good idea to make yet another resourceless champion and letting him step all over people FOR FREE would be a bad idea > > i did end up going full tank but the damage just felt terrible Tank first=/= full tank. I build 1 or 2 defensive items first and then build a few damage items and then again fee defensive items
i did what i usually do for darius and go cleaver > plate/randuins etc > titanic (not that i get this on darius) i just didnt feel like i hurt at all
: My god you don't know how to play kled, his early laning phase is yes punishing but he makes up for it by being deceptively unduelable, he has bonus attack range while unmounted and when you go against those aggressive toplaners like riven you can beat her why, because you can spam your q endlessly to kite because no mana cost, you just need to try and save violent tendencies for champions or to get farmed for the lategame where he really fucken improves, kled gets almost about 3k hp and you can build him full ad. not only that but when you loose Skaarl you have to ham it out in a teamfight because you get courage faster as you attack champions and trust me, that lizard will be back before you die, so long as you execute your combos nicely and be sure to get bt so you can outlast your enemies, that is the key to playing kled is to ham, be aggressive and if you do it right you can recover health and Skaarl almost indefinitely making you impossible to duel, sure he has low movement speed without skaarl but if you feel its worth to back for him then do so
okay i think you either need to use periods or divide your lines a little so the wall of text is more decipherable im perfectly fine with going ham because i do it all the time, but against ranged champions or people who AREN'T dumb enough to immediately run close to you so you can stab them it's hard work getting the lizard to come back
Buttcramp (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=mUM6x9A4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T10:02:26.704+0000) > > to be fair her ult's damage IS a little on the high end, and 10 uses of her W before you run out of mana is pretty generous (if you didn't take mana regen into account when calculating how many you think she can use) > > im not so sure about her q duration, though I agree on the ult's damage, that could be lowered down a bit. But the Q duration really does not look good for her.
as someone who mains toplaners, junglers and supports, i can't really give an adc player's views on her what i can say is that her permaslow is insufferable to play against and i've never actually had fun fighting an ashe based on this, i think she'll manage to be fine after the changes
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T09:34:36.542+0000) > > there's slow and there's abysmal, though > i haven't yet survived in lane long enough to actually bring skaarl back > combining his abilities feels nice, at least, qing and then e'ing so they cant get away, stabbing them up a bit with w and having a go at them is good but it's just not very effective in terms of hp damage Meanwhile I build tank first and deal damage mostly with basics. What's even more fun is seeing people go wtf, when they get rid of my dino only to get it back up quickly since I just keep harrassing them and farming as well. He is very difficult to play but buffing him at current state would basically overbuff him. Also, he is awesome in baiting, as his ultimate can also be used as escape and he can pretty much chase the goddess of dashes and god of blinks. What bothers me is base movement speed on kled alons, but, if it wouldn't be there we would end up with another elise.
it could just be because i've yet to face a melee champion, but i feel like if i were to pick garen or darius or olaf i'd be able to fight him anyway because he doesnt feel like he outputs that much i do think that he'd be stupid if he was strong, given that for some reason riot thought it was a good idea to make yet another resourceless champion and letting him step all over people FOR FREE would be a bad idea i did end up going full tank but the damage just felt terrible
SeekerK (EUNE)
: He has a weak early game but after lvl 5-6, his pretty balanced as a tank. Can take some time to learn though, it can be one of the hardest champions to master.
i can see him having a learning curve but i honestly found him stronger earlier rather than later because his base damages are higher early on (i think) compared to later, in the sense that enemies havent had the chance to build their own hp by that point
Buttcramp (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=mUM6x9A4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-11T09:46:11.465+0000) > > what's getting nerfed? she's considered a utility ADC at the minute but from what i've seen she's a flavour pic because of how strong the essence reaver build is Her Q duration, her ult's damage and if I'm correct they are planning to increase W's mana cost.
to be fair her ult's damage IS a little on the high end, and 10 uses of her W before you run out of mana is pretty generous (if you didn't take mana regen into account when calculating how many you think she can use) im not so sure about her q duration, though
: > i didn't say it was a damage ability, i just said it could do with dealing more damage No it couldnt do with more damage... it's utility. > secondly, they shouldnt present him as a two-part champion if he isn't usable in his second-part, saying it's "weaker" is deceitful They never said that he was a proper two part champion... they have always said that he was at a disadvantage when he gets dismounted and has to make risky plays... they said that in his reveal, they said that in his spot light, and it was obvious from just his stats... you can't say that riot was being deceitful if they have literally told you this every way possible. > also, a champion can't function without farming, even if he repeatedly kills his laner their gold will drop and he'll still be farm-starved at the end of it, (potentially) killing people shouldn't be his only income, that's just silly I never said he shouldn't farm... what I said was that when he gets dismounted he can't just skulk off to a side lane or hide under tower to farm he has to trade with his laner... like all champions he is gonna farm but doing so isn't much of an option for getting skaarl back, you've got to take a risk for it.
> No it couldnt do with more damage... it's utility. His Q and ult are also technically utility, so where's his damage supposed to come from? > They never said that he was a proper two part champion... they have always said that he was at a disadvantage when he gets dismounted and has to make risky plays... they said that in his reveal, they said that in his spot light, and it was obvious from just his stats... you can't say that riot was being deceitful if they have literally told you this every way possible. You said it yourself, they said he's "at a disadvantage." This isn't a disadvantage, it's having to leave lane or die immediately. > I never said he shouldn't farm... what I said was that when he gets dismounted he can't just skulk off to a side lane or hide under tower to farm he has to trade with his laner... like all champions he is gonna farm but doing so isn't much of an option for getting skaarl back, you've got to take a risk for it. Then back to my point of being "how's he meant to use his W on champions if he's also trying to farm," right?
: Did anyone reroll for Kled ? please let me know ..
i have a friend who rerolled all of his shards and didnt own kled, but got a permanent of a champion he owned anyway, lol
Buttcramp (EUNE)
: I seriously feel like Ashe does not deserve the nerfs that's coming in her way.
what's getting nerfed? she's considered a utility ADC at the minute but from what i've seen she's a flavour pic because of how strong the essence reaver build is
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-08-11T09:17:24.809+0000) > > like i said to someone else in the comments > > it's not the champion itself, its individual aspects OF the champion that are individually unsatisfying Thats why you combo them. I often use w-q combo as people expect you to not harrass theough minions. Well kled is awesome at that. His minion kill respawn rate is slow so he wouldn't be another "better nerf irelia"
there's slow and there's abysmal, though i haven't yet survived in lane long enough to actually bring skaarl back combining his abilities feels nice, at least, qing and then e'ing so they cant get away, stabbing them up a bit with w and having a go at them is good but it's just not very effective in terms of hp damage
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Lol.....before complaining and getting champions over uffed, maybe actually learn to ply him? 2 games is not even close to near enoguh to even have an opinion on champion.
like i said to someone else in the comments it's not the champion itself, its individual aspects OF the champion that are individually unsatisfying
blissbomb (EUW)
: ***
i'll admit you're right with some of that, but i think it's skaarl's hp that needs a nerf, not his own base hp given that you can't survive an ultimate once the lizard's gone he doesn't have over-wall mobility like most forms of mobility in the game are currently, but his ult IS good and i wont deny that, and his w can be okay in terms of strength once it's levelled up, but i don't think it makes up for all of the damage his kit doesn't really otherwise have but i do think skaarl still takes too long to come back and that opinion isnt going to be easily swayed as for nerfs, he has a 42% winrate toplane, so im not entirely sure that's right
: You think the E is a damage ability when it's just for stickiness, you think he is a two part champion when he is just a one part champion who gets weaker if you damage him too much, you think he should be farming when his entire kit is designed to be fighting champions 24/7, and you think 2 games is enough to condemn him. You definitely have the wrong idea about a lot of his kit, just thinking he is a two part champion alone is enough to cause unsatisfaction because your trying to force kled to be something he ain't.
i didn't say it was a damage ability, i just said it could do with dealing more damage secondly, they shouldnt present him as a two-part champion if he isn't usable in his second-part, saying it's "weaker" is deceitful also, a champion can't function without farming, even if he repeatedly kills his laner their gold will drop and he'll still be farm-starved at the end of it, (potentially) killing people shouldn't be his only income, that's just silly
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T08:51:22.290+0000) > > but then what's the point in presenting the champ as two forms > it even keeps track of both sets of healthbars but only skaarl's matters, it's just a different-looking version of sion's passive I think that it was more a matter of dumb people lamenting that he was the same as Gnar...expect that they were completely wrong :D. Big surprise :D...!
i dont mind him being weaker in his unmounted form but it's actually horrible to use if you lose skaarl and try to run you won't be alive along enough to do that, if you try to fight anybody with range you wont be able to catch them idk i feel like it needs touching up, personally either that or i need a ghostblade soon/sooner
: Check glass cannon. Check tank. Check off-tank. Check bots. Check customs. Check normals. Check favorable match-ups. Check hard match-ups. Check Jungle Check Top. Then we talk. Unless you have extreme OCD bigger than mine able to tell his state already (not that's going to happen, mind that).
can you write your post to be more comprehensible please
House x33 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-11T08:52:42.911+0000) > > taliyah actually WAS underpowered when she came out, though, but she never felt unsatisfying > azir has been changed majorly since his release, there's so many QoL changes that went into him so he's a bad example Actually he's not, all these changes were either to nerf him or beause it was buggy
exactly, it was bugfixes all the way that've functioned as QoL fixing bugs and making him more fluid to play is QoL
: Basically yeah... If I was to build any champion incorrectly, or bodge up their abilities then they are gonna feel unsatisfactory to play... this is the case for every champion, kled included. Thing about kled though is that he is so new nobody knows what is right and what isn't which means that he will feel off for a lot of people because they can't play him right. After 2 weeks we should have an idea of what we actually need to do to play him thus the satisfactory way of playing him should develop. And considering you've had the wrong idea about how to use all of his abilities I think this is what is happening here.
how do i have the wrong idea? you q them, if they try to run you can e in to make sure they don't get away, you stab them, e again, they eventually get away until late game, rinse repeat
House x33 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T08:51:22.290+0000) > > but then what's the point in presenting the champ as two forms > it even keeps track of both sets of healthbars but only skaarl's matters, it's just a different-looking version of sion's passive They even said that without skaarl you're weak af that's intended
there's weak and then there's unusable, your healthbar may as well end when skaarl is gone it's just deceptive to make a champion seem like both healthbars matter when only one does
: W is ment to be that, you've got to decide if you use the cooldown on farm or trading which forces kled into trading more frequently and not at his own pace which you will notice is a theme here. His E is mobility... when has mobility ever needed to deal damage. It's not your damage source it's just how you stick to opponents.... And his passive is designed like that... fighting minions takes a long time to regen skaarls courage but you can regen it extremely quickly if you attack champions or towers... So when you are dismounted you are encouraged to fight champions or take objectives instead of skulking off to farm which ties into kled's theme of going extremely ham all the time. > Base MS needs to be increased while unmounted because you're dead as soon as Skaarl leaves, leaving it closer to using Sion's passive than an actual two-part champion. Don't think of him as a two part champion... this isn't gnar where both mini and mega have their own strengths and weaknesses... unmounted kled is much weaker, that's the point. You don't want to be dismounted because that's bad for you (you lose most of your abilities and have penalties on pretty much everything while dismounted)... to get skaarl back you need to fight and be aggressive while in your weakened state... this creates an interesting dynamic where you've gotta know when you can afford aggression despite being weakened so much or skulk off to base to get skaarl back... if unmounted kled was strong it wouldn't be much of a choice would it, you'd just go in all the time.
it's not much weaker, it's borderline unplayable (imo) you can't catch anybody so you can't hit them in order to get the stuff back even if it was increased to like, 6, for killing a minion, it would still help with him being less useless maybe it's because i was against gnar, then graves toplane, but you can't do anything if skaarl is gone
House x33 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T08:34:52.428+0000) > > it doesn't take more than two games to realise he doesn't feel satisfying to play > riot have always said "ok if it doesnt feel good to use we should fix that" (not verbatim) and this feels bad to use How long did it take people to figure out Azir ? Taliyah ?
taliyah actually WAS underpowered when she came out, though, but she never felt unsatisfying azir has been changed majorly since his release, there's so many QoL changes that went into him so he's a bad example
ThePikol (EUNE)
: He was just released and you played him whole 2 games and already know what is wrong with a champion?
no they're my opinion
: > [{quoted}](name=Doublejho,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIegxjpA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-08-11T08:49:21.782+0000) > > you're barely a champ when you lose skaarl, may as well be a super minion tbqh Exactly.
but then what's the point in presenting the champ as two forms it even keeps track of both sets of healthbars but only skaarl's matters, it's just a different-looking version of sion's passive
: Kled is not a two-forms champ. It's a champ with a buff that you may happen to lose and at that point you are weaker than any other champ. If you don't like to take this risk, Kled is not for you.
you're barely a champ when you lose skaarl, may as well be a super minion tbqh
: Actually it does... it takes about 2 weeks to be able to definitively say this as what you might think is it feeling bad might be you playing him wrong.
alright what you're saying is that an ability can't individually feel lacklustre because i haven't played him for two weeks running i hope you're joking
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: > Alright, so after playing him for 2 games before you start talking about his issue, play at least somewhat decent amount of games.
it doesn't take more than two games to realise he doesn't feel satisfying to play riot have always said "ok if it doesnt feel good to use we should fix that" (not verbatim) and this feels bad to use
Rioter Comments
: Well the curve wouldn't do anything too bad to him but I'm not sure if it will help much either (also side not it wouldn't be a vector cast, from my understanding you just want a curved skill shot like Diana Q which is a unique targeting type)... Thing about the E is that I've got no idea what to do about it (I've dabbled in making my own rework for him but the E is a weird case)... it's not too impressive and something which fit better would benefit him but at the same time the ranged poke and wave clear is vital to aatrox at least in this state (he was considered strong till riot did a small nerf to his E and he died, shows how much it's become a crutch for him). Maybe evolving your idea that the two blades that make his E curve outwards then inwards meeting at the end forming an oval shape... both blades deal their own damage and getting hit with both blades (from being at point blank range or aatrox hitting you with the tip) will cause more damage or some other effect... fits better than what my interpretation of your idea yet still does the curve and fits your idea of having his E feel more rewarding to hit.
I think they did go with the double-point thing for him, but it isn't pronounced. Having it be an oddly-shaped skillshot to differentiate it from others doesn't seem like all that much. At the minute I just feel like Aatrox is quite unimpactful and either gets built mostly tank or raw ad, but one means he doesn't deal enough damage and the other means he melts quickly. I think they'd be better off stylising his kit to match other fighters, or even juggernauts, giving him some power but also some strength from his abilities while letting him retain a fighter identity via his ult could be nice. There'd still be a reason build attack speed, but if his E could be used quickly it could allow for cancels and stuff.
: Multiple charge abilities would make him sluggish... his lore speaks of him being fluid and navigating a battle with ease, making him charge up so much just slows him down too much (a lumbering giant would benefit from multiple charge up attacks as it reinforces their character, it's out of place on aatrox). So have it on the Q (as that's a good idea) but do something else for the E.
Fair enough, I'm just trying to think of ways to make him feel more impactful. Maybe having it still be able to be curved, but without a charge would work?
Rioter Comments

Doublejho

Level 30 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion