OzX (EUW)
: So your option to climb was to let your teammates get their role so they carry you? Sorry this shouldn't be rewarded. And that fill was obviously a flaw related to an outdated system. Now that we can afford to play "real" ranked games because we have enough people, it makes sense to do it.
> [{quoted}](name=MeProMeMid,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-13T19:50:51.655+0000) > > So your option to climb was to let your teammates get their role so they carry you? > Sorry this shouldn't be rewarded. And that fill was obviously a flaw related to an outdated system. > Now that we can afford to play "real" ranked games because we have enough people, it makes sense to do it. My option was to get good at everything. Rank isn't determined based on your role or champion. It's determined regarding your rank as SUMMONER which encompasses champion knowledge, strategy, twitch skill, farming skill, builds ETC. You just gimped me and decided your way of playing was more important. It's nothing but selfish and unsportsmanlike.
OzX (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ed Rush,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-13T14:41:54.796+0000) > > Since Dynamic queue was introduced ive learned that filling is a very bad idea and that you are much better at just picking a role and sticking to it. > > Why? Diversity and ability to play different roles and champs surely should heave some bearing? That's where you are wrong, filling always was a bad idea in terms of rising the ladder. Dynamic just made it obvious for everyone to see. And no, playing different roles should not be a criteria, lol is a team game and in a team you have your role. In football would you rate a defense player by it's ability to score goals? As for playing different champions however, it is a clear advantage since you can pick champions that fit that particular game better. (Note that playing too many different champions will result in the same failure as different roles, but that's just how humans work)
> [{quoted}](name=MeProMeMid,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-13T19:30:24.684+0000) > > That's where you are wrong, filling always was a bad idea in terms of rising the ladder. Dynamic just made it obvious for everyone to see. > > And no, playing different roles should not be a criteria, lol is a team game and in a team you have your role. In football would you rate a defense player by it's ability to score goals? > As for playing different champions however, it is a clear advantage since you can pick champions that fit that particular game better. (Note that playing too many different champions will result in the same failure as different roles, but that's just how humans work) No it wasn't and no matter how much you keep repeating it that won't become truth. With gold 3 mechanics I was plat 5 ranked because my experience and analysis gave me an upperhand. Basically strategy was my trumph card in beating souped up teenagers with better twitch skill. The only change that has occured is that any incentive for being sportsmanlike and taking the time to familiarise yourself with all parts of the game has been removed. It's not interesting, it's not better, it's not really anything but kind of sad. I won't waste my breathe on the issue anymore. Clearly the community seems split except us allrounders are the ones taking the punishment while for you nothing changes and you get to carry on with exactly what you are doing. Sad state of affairs if you ask me.
: Maybe there should not be any benefit to anyone just because he fills? Ranking is supposed to reflect personal skill and picking fill instead of two roles is not exactly a demonstration of personal skill. The thing that happened before was that people were often forced into roles where they played worse than they could've done in other roles and also probably had a lot less fun doing so. Any game as adc I had to do was hell for me since I'm the worst adc EUW and I am thankful I never have to do that again. > [{quoted}](name=Ed Rush,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-04-13T16:46:07.125+0000) > Queue time will be less than 20 seconds (GREAT! you can lose games faster now), the only thing you will face will be specialists with 1000+ games doing the same thing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that playstyle, just as there is nothing wrong with yours. If you meet in a a game the better player will win (assuming teams are equal). Is it easier to master a few champions instead of a giant pool of champions? Probably, but that is something you chose to do and nothing you should be compensated for.
> [{quoted}](name=Fimbulvethr,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-13T17:12:40.254+0000) > > Maybe there should not be any benefit to anyone just because he fills? Ranking is supposed to reflect personal skill and picking fill instead of two roles is not exactly a demonstration of personal skill. > The thing that happened before was that people were often forced into roles where they played worse than they could've done in other roles and also probably had a lot less fun doing so. Any game as adc I had to do was hell for me since I'm the worst adc EUW and I am thankful I never have to do that again. > > And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that playstyle, just as there is nothing wrong with yours. If you meet in a a game the better person will win (assuming teams are equal). If there is nothing wrong with my playstyle why am I being punished for it? You are combining a strawman and redherring fallacy to suit your own needs. Diversity and general knowledge most definitely is a reflection of personal skill but mine isn't being measured at all. I am being punished for not picking 2 roles and sticking to it. If you dont understand the problem by now I can't explain it better to you. Filler currently exists only as a way to reduce your own queue time, other than that it puts you at a severe disadvantage, ergo being a jack of all trades has been severely nerfed whereas in the old queue system it paid off. I mean, why even have 120+ champions and 5 different roles if as you say the true measure of skill should be set in only 1 role. Might as well have the world championsships be 1v1 mirror on howling abyss because thats how you actually determine the worth of a player. This is essentially the argument you are supporting.
OzX (EUW)
: New system covers both. Wanna play the same thing over and over? You'll get that most of your games. Wanna play something different every game? You'll play something different every game. If anything, "fillers" are favored because they can change roles in each and every game while otps won't get their role EVERY game. Although I don't even understand why you oppose them.
> [{quoted}](name=MeProMeMid,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-13T16:12:52.629+0000) > > New system covers both. > Wanna play the same thing over and over? You'll get that most of your games. > Wanna play something different every game? You'll play something different every game. > > If anything, "fillers" are favored because they can change roles in each and every game while otps won't get their role EVERY game. > Although I don't even understand why you oppose them. Surely you are trolling? Go think about it properly and get back to me. Better yet go play 10 games of filler. Queue time will be less than 20 seconds (GREAT! you can lose games faster now), the only thing you will face will be specialists with 1000+ games doing the same thing.
ZeeDarkon (EUW)
: you can do both in the new system, but youre going to have way more success as an OTP. before, you had a lower chance to get your main role than you do now. now, you get your main role more often, and you can play your 2nd best role if you dont. previously, people "filling" would usually be worse at whatever they played than someone maining the role, but would benefit from a) having the rest of your team in their main roles by not blocking them, and b) possibly facing someone in an offrole aswell, and not automatically lose. right now, as a filler, you are automatically disfavored to win because you will not be as good as someone maining the role, and you WILL face someone maining the role or having it as secondary, and you dont even benefit from letting people have their main role anymore since the system does. how does changing roles each game favor you in a system where you almost exclusively play against people maining that role?
> [{quoted}](name=ZeeDarkon,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-13T16:26:54.578+0000) > > you can do both in the new system, but youre going to have way more success as an OTP. before, you had a lower chance to get your main role than you do now. now, you get your main role more often, and you can play your 2nd best role if you dont. previously, people "filling" would usually be worse at whatever they played than someone maining the role, but would benefit from a) having the rest of your team in their main roles by not blocking them, and b) possibly facing someone in an offrole aswell, and not automatically lose. > > right now, as a filler, you are automatically disfavored to win because you will not be as good as someone maining the role, and you WILL face someone maining the role or having it as secondary, and you dont even benefit from letting people have their main role anymore since the system does. > > how does changing roles each game favor you in a system where you almost exclusively play against people maining that role? Exactly this but nobody seems to understand that. The only "benefit" currently to filling is shorter queue times, there are only disadvantages except for that.
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ed Rush,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-04-13T15:11:10.477+0000) > > Except you are completely wrong though.. > > The first thing you are saying is that players didn't want to be diverse. I'm telling you we did, dynamic queues only solved the "problem" for specialists. > > Dynamic queue most definitely does not encourage diversity. It encourages you 2 pick 2 roles and stick to them. The list of possibles roles you have to play has been reduced from 5 to 2, how does this encourage diversity? > > I preffered solo Q when it was a bit messier personally. More room for different kinds of players and more room to pronounce your diversity and ability to be sportmanslike and fill different roles. > > Now it encourages autistic behaviour where you just spam 1 role over and over again as much as you can, at worst you play maybe 1 other role. You are probably right. I was looking at this through my way of playing the game. I can be diverse if I want to. Still, in Solo-Q you had similiar problems. A worse one, you had confliting interests. Player A only plays mid or jungle. Player B only plays mid or jungle. Player C only plays mid or jungle. They are all placed in the same team. Here is a conflict of interests. If this happened in Solo-Q then you would either have someone to suck it up, a dodge or a troll game. With Dynamic Queue this will never happen (assuming that player A, B and C would genuinely play the roles assigned to them). I still don't think that everyone wants to be diverse and I don't see a problem with that. If you play this game competitively then you probably want to up your chances of winning. If that means "autistic behaviour" (hate that expression) then so be it. The system might not encourage diversity, but you still have that option there. It wasn't taken away from you. What do you suggest? AR (all random) roles? That's the only way I see diversity being encouraged without the problem of confliting interests. What I understand from you original post is that the competition is to hard for you. You are a Jack-of-all-trades and that's why you can't climb higher. If you really care that much about your rank, then you should either learn every role and master it (good luck with that) or just stick to 2 roles. This has always been this way. Everyone knows that if you wanted to reach diamond back then, you coulnd't be a JoaT. You had to master 1 or 2 roles and stick to them. Then you had that occasional game where you were forced to play in another role, but in the long run you'd always be playing in your 2 best roles.
> [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-13T15:48:02.704+0000) > > You are probably right. I was looking at this through my way of playing the game. I can be diverse if I want to. > Still, in Solo-Q you had similiar problems. A worse one, you had confliting interests. > > Player A only plays mid or jungle. Player B only plays mid or jungle. Player C only plays mid or jungle. They are all placed in the same team. Here is a conflict of interests. If this happened in Solo-Q then you would either have someone to suck it up, a dodge or a troll game. With Dynamic Queue this will never happen (assuming that player A, B and C would genuinely play the roles assigned to them). > > I still don't think that everyone wants to be diverse and I don't see a problem with that. If you play this game competitively then you probably want to up your chances of winning. If that means "autistic behaviour" (hate that expression) then so be it. > The system might not encourage diversity, but you still have that option there. It wasn't taken away from you. > > What do you suggest? AR (all random) roles? That's the only way I see diversity being encouraged without the problem of confliting interests. > > What I understand from you original post is that the competition is to hard for you. You are a Jack-of-all-trades and that's why you can't climb higher. If you really care that much about your rank, then you should either learn every role and master it (good luck with that) or just stick to 2 roles. > This has always been this way. Everyone knows that if you wanted to reach diamond back then, you coulnd't be a JoaT. You had to master 1 or 2 roles and stick to them. Then you had that occasional game where you were forced to play in another role, but in the long run you'd always be playing in your 2 best roles. Well, personally i never had a problem with the old queue. Since dynamic queue the amount of complaints i see have risen by 1000% at least if not more. The reason I have a problem is because it's only my playstyle that has suffered. I'm a diverse solo q player and we are the ones taking all the damage in this. duo q? np. trio? np. fullteam? np. adc only? n. mid only? np. If matchmaking adjusted your mmr for playing with teammates or going filler I could at least see that they recognize the problem but because most players are like you that is not the case. I have gone from a solid plat 5 player to a gold 5 player.. im literally having to abuse the system in place to get back to my old mmr. on so many levels that is wrong.
Febos (EUW)
: You are mixing things here. That's not a problem with Dynamic Queue. "META" or "lack of diversity" is a problem with the community. The made what the game is today, not RIOT. Before dynamic queue players didn't want to be diverse. Everyone had that 1 role were they were good at and sometimes were forced to play a sub-optimal role. Dynamic Queue solved that problem. You no longer have the "excuse" to be playing in a sub optimal role. At best, Dyamic Queue also encourages diversity. Why? Because you can switch up your "main" role at any time. If you are tired of playing mid, then you can just choose a different role to play in. Before dynamic queue, you'd always be "left to chance" in champion select. I really don't see the problem with Dynamic Queue. It solved a lot of problems and what most people experience is just nostalgia of the old system. I bet you that if 2 years down the road they switched the system again to the retired iteration, then you would see even more complaints.
> [{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=36y7s4JK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-13T15:03:29.737+0000) > > You are mixing things here. That's not a problem with Dynamic Queue. "META" or "lack of diversity" is a problem with the community. The game evolved with us over time. > Before dynamic queue players didn't want to be diverse. Everyone had that 1 role were they were good at and sometimes were forced to play a sub-optimal role. Dynamic Queue solved that problem. You no longer have the "excuse" to be playing in a sub optimal role. > > At best, Dyamic Queue also encourages diversity. Why? Because you can switch up your "main" role at any time. If you are tired of playing mid, then you can just choose a different role to play in. Before dynamic queue, you'd always be "left to chance" in champion select. > > I really don't see the problem with Dynamic Queue. It solved a lot of problems and what most people experience is just nostalgia of the old system. > I bet you that if 2 years down the road they switched the system again to the retired iteration, then you would see the same even more complaints. Except you are completely wrong though.. The first thing you are saying is that players didn't want to be diverse. I'm telling you we did, dynamic queues only solved the "problem" for specialists. Dynamic queue most definitely does not encourage diversity. It encourages you 2 pick 2 roles and stick to them. The list of possibles roles you have to play has been reduced from 5 to 2, how does this encourage diversity? I preffered solo Q when it was a bit messier personally. More room for different kinds of players and more room to pronounce your diversity and ability to be sportmanslike and fill different roles. Now it encourages autistic behaviour where you just spam 1 role over and over again as much as you can, at worst you play maybe 1 other role.
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Ed Rush

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