: The current method judges everyone equally: You won the game, you gain MMR/LP, you lose the game - you lose MMR/LP If you want to be judged differently, you want the Support role treated differently. Like so many before you... and it's boring.
The concept of judging everyone the same way is a good thing. Sadly in this case i'd personally say it's a bit simplified and short sighted to instantly state that it's the right way to go about, since the game has clear different roles.
Adama (EUW)
: I switched to support this season because it is easy to climb with in ranked for me. Already in promos to diamond never did that so quickly.
I'd love to hear why this is the case for you!
: Mm, I agree with your premise that certain aspects of the Support role are frustrating and don't translate well between high and low elo, and thus are perhaps imbalanced or anti-fun at times and require a fix. One big issue is that buffing support itemisation almost always makes the items broken in e.g. midlane, as does buffing the champions themselves (hence the recent round of Pyke nerfs). There needs to be some sort of shift, in my view, though not a massively drastic one. What I disagree with is your conclusion - that this means Supports are helpless to the whims of their team and it's a total coin flip whether they win or lose. I believe you can still have a strong influence on the game and carry - it's just very frustrating at times. And because I disagree with that conclusion, I disagree with the proposed solution as well. I hope this makes it clear what I meant. :) And who knows, maybe the meta will shift soon and macro will become more of a focus again above getting solo laners fed!
Thanks for the extra explanation, i see your point. Let's hope Riot is able to find a better solution.
: I honestly stopped reading after you claimed that you should be treated differently because of your role.... you shouldn't - period. If you honestly think that way, I recommend you take some time off and play other roles. And then, when you finally managed to properly play each role, please come back again and tell me, without any doubt, that Support requires special treatment because everyone else runs it down....
Having played other roles in both LoL and other moba games i still feel the same about the issues i stated in regards to the support role. I can't force you but it probably would have helped if you read the entire post. I do not state that Supports need special treatment, i simply state that the current method does not judge them right. This is all in my personal opinion, everyone is free to agree or disagree.
: I agree with parts of this, but only parts. For context, I'm a gold 1-plat 4 supp main, plat 2 peak MMR, playing since 2014. In my view, the issue with soloq support is best exemplified by looking at the pro scene as a comparator. Because support is a less mechanically intensive role as a whole, particularly during laning phase when you don't have to worry about farming, supports are often the shotcallers of the team. Their highest value is most often (though not always) focused around communication, warding and vision/information control, and macro decisions. This is a problem in solo queue, which as an environment de-emphasises the impact of these gameplay aspects on the whole, and more strongly rewards mechanical ability in-game, due to weaker communication and less cognisant play from players as a whole, particularly in "low" elos where most players are. This is why you feel supports are more "limited" in what they can do for a team. You can do an excellent job of tracking the enemy jungle and spam danger pings at your soon-to-be-ganked teammates, but without their respect and cognisance you can't make them not stay in lane and die. You can spam in chat "do baron now, do baron now, do baron now" but again, without team co-operation, there is nothing else you can do. We've all been there. I often find myself feeling the need to micromanage every aspect of my team's macro gameplay to stop them just dying constantly and to get some objectives, because macro is what I specialise in and they clearly focus on the micro stuff. And it is frustrating. So in many ways I agree - I find myself disempowered to carry out the role I'm meant to have on the team. The justification for supports' dearth of gold and often XP is that they have more of an opportunity to focus on macro, to roam, to make "thinking plays" - as opposed to needing gold to get stats and win the micro-oriented situations. You're never gonna solo out the fed Irelia, but you can gank her, or track her movement in the river and warn a teammate. Unfortunately, in soloq, that just doesn't happen as much, and as a result supports are often reduced to "play Lux/Velkoz/Brand and try to be a mini-midlaner." **However, where I disagree with you is in the "solution."** There isn't a solution to this that doesn't completely contradict Riot's ranked philosophy. If you're better than your rank, you should win >50% of games, climb in MMR, and thus gain more/lose less LP per win/loss and climb. It's that simple. Even if it takes hundreds of games sometimes in this system to get to the rank matching your skill level, it 100% for-sure works over enough time, because win/loss is the surest way to determine how good you are. Anything counteracting that can't be countenanced. Theoretically, over enough games, the enemy team gets a troll/afk/inter as often as you do (actually, statistically it's slightly **more** likely, so long as you aren't the troll), so again that's not an issue by Riot's ranked philosophy. So I disagree with your diatribe about supports being completely helpless regarding their own rank, and being more likely to be carried or screwed over. If you're better than the enemy supports, then over enough games your comparatively positive game impact will cause a >50% winrate. If you can't achieve that, **you are at the right rank**, even if you feel you are better than your teammates or enemies. Personally, I feel the solution comes with finding some way to empower soloq supports without making it absolutely broken in high elo/pro play - to move a bit of their power into micro stuff in some way, without going back to the tired old "just play full AP Zyra every game and do your best to carry even on a much lower gold income" argument.
Thanks for the reply Amis! Thank you for your Micro/Macro comparison for the support role, you worded it fár better than i could! ^^ I can understand why you'd disagree and i believe i can fully understand your logic behind it. Nontheless it does seem like a bit of a contradiction to agree with the issues, but state that enough games would balance it out. I can see it work, but it would still mean you're in the hands of your team to get there without the means to succesfully guide them, and obviously so is the enemy support. So even is this evens things out, the fact that both team's supports have the same issue (in my opinion) does not justify viewing this as acceptable and without the need of fixing it. Obviously i dont have the answers, I'm just another player and no game dev. I honestly hope Riot will pay some attention to the support role in solo queue and hopefully comes up with some better answers. To be perfectly honest, i do think we're in a bit of a pickle.. at the moment one of the best options is indeed to build damage and try to assume the role of a midlaner/assassin in mid/late game, making healers/tanks a lot less attractive as they lack the solo/micro potential to hold your own when your team refuses to follow your lead. If these options would be buffed we'd get serious issues in premade gameplay though.. This is exactly why i hope Riot reads the post and i really hope people come up with as much info and suggestions as possible. Therefore i'd like to thank you once again!
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