FulLovsKi (EUW)
: Possible nerfs for zhonya
DAY 2: i realized that in my nerf ideas i decided to immideatly go for the armor nerf but everybody found that to be a stupid idea while others pointed out the consequences of doing so (Doom emissary), many people gave more reasonable nerfs/buffs ideas (JokeroffHell33, HIVSuperposition and LukieeAwakens) and some people did agree to the idea that zhonya is a very good item that gives a bit too much general stats like armor, cdr and ap so they do think that some stats need a small nerf (Emperor Talquin, Luciferrx and PaG VentusKing)
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: Actually {{item:3157}} is busted but ofc most players in this game are silvers..they dont know its potential.Same as {{item:2419}} who evryone already said it its busted and thats why in high elo you see that item all the time. Its too good not to be taken.
and that "too good not to be taken" part is the one that im trying to adress right now so we can find a collective solution for it so it'll be just like buying GA u get armor and a very useful passive but you get no cooldowns or a huge amount of dmg so sometimes players go for the risky option and buy lethality over armor wich mages don't have to worry about since zhonya grants them 10% cdr a good amount of ap and 45 armor so a nerf might be needed
: I do think that zhonyas deserves some nerfs, but going for the defensive stats is the wrong call in my opinion. The problem (from what I can tell) is the synergy mage itemization has with itself. We are getting to the point where mages become secondary bruisers by building {{item:3152}} and {{item:3157}} and just going full ap right after with the likes of {{item:3089}} and {{item:3135}}. The first 2 items make them really hard to kill, while not sacrificing a lot of damage and the next two items give them the damage they need to still pop the backline in a matter of seconds. I'd rather see a cost increase (and maybe cdr loss) for both the {{item:3152}} and {{item:3157}} and a small buff to {{item:3211}}.
i honestly having nothing to say these buffs/nerfs are very well thought-out
: I'm sorry so many people downvoted this post...You're not being toxic, you're just asking for opinions and talking about something you're passionate about. Guess people are just salty. Anyway, personally I'm a neeko main and I always build zhonyas second. It is an extremely useful item as most mages(or neeko in this case) are very squishy so having {{item:3157}} to help us survive during team fights and be able to do some damage is really good. I guessssssss if it's really necessary they could nerf it, like maybe not completely remove the armour but lower it from 45 to 25/30 would be enough?
it's a reasonable and possible nerf idea it isn't complete on it's own (by that i mean that a cd nerf might be needed so mages may take the small cd rune that gives 1%-10% depending on the level or any small thing really) but just admitting that the item that u depend on while playing your main needs a nerf is very helpful
: Hey there ! You're taking things the wrong way. Upvoting/downvoting is basically giving your opinion about the post. It's like saying you agree/disagree without having to type a comment. It doesn't have anything to do with toxicity or being a noob. Having 8 downvotes (this is the number right now) basically means that at least 8 people disagree with you. That's all it means, no harm or special meaning intended. To answer your post, I'll try to adress all your points and explain why it's a bad idea : Zhonya is meant to be a defensive item against physical damage (the magic resist counterpart is Banshee's Veil) so you can't ask for it's defensive stats to be removed. It's like asking for Thornmail to lose it's armor, it just wouldn't make sense. As for why it have AP, because that's what makes it a mage item. If it only had defensive stats and no AP, it would basically become a normal tank item which is something mages would never buy. It's like asking them to buy Spirit visage or Thornmail. Also, mages have very weak base defensive stats so having to buy ninja tabis or other defensive items won't make them much tankier and will just reduce their damage tremendously. Mages will end up in an awkward position where they don't deal the damage they were meant to deal while still being one shot. So they'll just become garbage compared to AP bruisers like Sylas or Mordekaiser who will be able to deal the same damage but be much more tankier. Speaking of which, wanting classic mages to have reduced burst, be tankier and deal more DPS is the very description of bruisers or battlemages. And that's a completely different class in the game that have that specific objective in mind. One last point I'd like to clarify is stacking health. Health is completely useless without armor and magic resist. Even with tons of HP, you'll still get one shot if you don't have defensive stats.
wow this post is so complete (im not being ironic) well i just want to say that it is kinda frustrating how mages can just press a button to make a whole combo useless and so i still think that zhonya needs a slight nerf not a armor nerf(not a big one at least) but something that will make mid lane more enjoyable u probably have already guessed by now that im a zed main that got scared because of a zhonya play so i just wanted to see what others think of zhonya and how to nerf it in a way that will be ok to everybody (also about the downvote and upvote part i totally understood that but i just want people to say what made them disagree like every one that has contributed to the discussion so far wich i appreciate very much and thank them for that)
: ye well i dont think there isnt enough assasins played ... despite the zhonya existing ... i dont think nerfing the deffensive parts of this item is way to go ... if anything nerf the AP/CDR on it ...
this might be a good idea since if mages don't get too much damage by building a defensive item i'll just make things boring (since everybody will play safe) but not one sided so this sounds like a good idea
: > [{quoted}](name=FulLovsKi,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=QM6ArmH5,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-02T14:13:38.711+0000) > > I just want to say for people who just saw this post as a toxic noob who's forcing a nerf that it isnt true but i am just asking for a general opinion/nerf idea that we can all agree on so that mid lane won't be monopolized by mages Are you implying that players are not playing assassins enough? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
it's not that assassins are not played enough but the mages monopolize the mid lane by giving assassins a hard time by poking them whenever they want to farm since if a assassin tries to go in he'll either get charmed or stunned wich will cause his death so assassins try to roam wich leaves mid lane open so the mage just shoves the wave and takes plates so i think that if mages would get a slight nerf on their beloved item it might make mid lane easy (also MR might actually be useful since they won't stack Magic penetration)
FulLovsKi (EUW)
: Possible nerfs for zhonya
I just want to say for people who just saw this post as a toxic noob who's forcing a nerf that it isnt true but i am just asking for a general opinion/nerf idea that we can all agree on so that mid lane won't be monopolized by mages
Silent Note (EUNE)
: What about {{item:3155}}? If they removed the MR from it but kept the shield, that would make things easier for Mages. It's the exact same thing as it is with {{item:3157}} and Assassins, {{item:3155}} can really ruin a Mage's mood.
welll honestly assasins are only looking for lethality and armor pen but mages get MR pen with boots while getting armor and ap but assasins can't get armor pen with boots and hexdrinker is useless since besides the armor resist we don't get a active that renders invincible to dmg for 2.5 sec or a good amount of dmg we just get a 200 hp shield
: Mage mains downvoted this post because they want none of their super broken cost efficient items to get even slightly nerfed.
thnx for the support
: oh yes poor {{champion:238}} getting countered by {{item:3157}} 2900g item on 2 minute CD (or {{item:2420}} once for 600) while {{champion:17}} over there gets his ult countered by a {{item:3364}} literaly freee ... on 90-60 sec CD(based on lvl) ... oh no poor zed if anything its that ADCs need to actually have some item that helps them survive like that ... and no {{item:3026}} isnt that ...that item is way better for bruisers
why did i laugh at this (but teemo will always hit his ult no matter what since it depends on the ennemy but trust me i get mage laners with zhonya 24/7) plus u don't see bruisers building guardian angel as their first item unlike most of the mages in mid lane and no need to get ironic we're just discussing a possible nerf for zhonya
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: Fine. Remove the armor from Zhonya, but make it 900g cheaper, decreasing the cost from 2900 to 2000. Because that is the gold value of 45 armor. Would that make you happy?
: I doubt they will ever nerf zhonyas. But it's about time they do. It's too consistant and is up almost every teamfight.
True but i don't want the active to be removed since even a nerf of the ap+the defense stats might make the laning phase easier for assasins
: There's definitely an element of RNG, just like there's an element of RNG in poker. Higher ranked players learn to turn seemingly disadvantageous situations around when the luck of the draw is against them, among improving in skill in general. :)
i do agree about the idea that we should adapt and learn when to keep a losing streak or a winning streak by making some sacrifices to our team but sometimes we just need 1 item (like the zap to counter a whole yordle team) but all we end up getting is 5 gold coins while others got spatulas and crossbows so it will be appreciated if we get a guaranteed drop (like the dragons and herauld) so we can craft a team buff that best suits that item (you might think that changing an entire team comp just for an item is extreme but if we have for example a cho gath with a giant belt and we end up getting a giant belt from wolves we'll buy any brawler just for the warmog cho gath to tank ennemy hits wich will grant our rangers enough time to deal dmg or stack guinsoos )
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