Wolity (EUW)
: Yuumi Guide
Hey, nice guide. As a Yuumi player myself, I would like to add some things. It is not meant offensive, mostly I just want to give another view, only on transcendence I completely disagree with you. Summoner Spells: Take heal and ignite or heal and exhaust. Your ADC can take the other one (exhaust or ignite), cleanse or barrier. Why should you take heal instead of your ADC? You have items which actually strengthen the heals. If you heal and your ADC ignite, you will actually heal more than the other way round. Of course teleport is much weaker than before, so the ADC should take it only in some special cases. Also if the ADC takes barrier and you heal, you and your ADC are basically immune to all bursts. And then you can heal your ADC back up. In addition to that you can decide when to use which heal you use when. ADCs quite often panic-heal even though you could heal them. So it is better if you can use both of those spells yourself as Yuumi. Runes: Transcendence: I personally dislike transcendence a lot on supports. I just quote a pro player from last season: "If you take transcendence on a support, you don't know how the game and support works." The rune only starts at lvl 10. Until then at least 50% of the game is over, probably more. So you have one deactivated rune for most of the game, just to have 10% CD later or a few AP (which is worse since the mini rework). The rune is better for champions on solo lanes, which gain experience faster and hence get to lvl 10 a lot quicker. They can really use this rune. I would highly recommend not to use it on supports. As you can easily heal yourself back up to 70% HP, I would always use absolute focus instead. It gives you AP the whole game. You don't need to wait until you get something from it. And in LG you can compare it this way: Transcendence gives 20 AP for every 10% CDR over 40%. Absolute focus gives you 3-30 AP. So the difference in AP for LG isn't really different. Hence absolute focus strengthens you in the (currently) very important EG and gives you about the same in LG - only in MG you have 10% less CDR. This makes the runes imo way stronger on Yuumi. Gathering storm: I am no friend of LG (AP) runes on Yuumi, especially since the mini rework. This one is not as bad as transcendence - if you want to play Yuumi this way... do it, I won't stop you. I personally just prefer scorch. Having your Q deal 15-35 more damage 10 times in EG means that the enemy got about 200 more damage from you and in EG this is immense. How often does the enemy survive with 100 HP? With this rune, he would either be dead or forced out of lane much earlier. But as said: On this rune I would say it is personal preference. I just think that Yuumi does not need the AP in LG. For the second tree I used the same as you for quite some time, but I personally prefer to use presence of mind and cut down. For me theys work better, but yours are completely fine.^^ Also I personally like armor/magic resistance more than health (so 2 times AP, one time armor mostly of the time) as it scales better with your healing. For the items I personally prefer more support items since the mini rework. (before the mini rework AP was fine) So I normally get something like athene's, redemption, ardent, support item and wards. In addition to that either mikael's, shurelya's or twin shadows. That works better for me, but I agree that your items are completely fine too. As my ADC mostly takes cleanse, when I play Yuumi and we play against a CC lane, I can also buy Mikael's later and get some more damage earlier. About your gameplay: It was interesting, but you could put out a lot mroe damage with your auto attacks. mostly you do like 1 AA and then go in again, while you could do at least 2 to get more money and deal more damage in laning phase. :) AGain: I don't want to flame you or anything, just want to put another opinion here. It is always great to see people so detailled tipps to other players, in particular with gameplay and so on! :) Greetings form a Yuumi player to another. :D
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: Why?
"Focus Zed." "Sett?" "Yes... No, the other one." "Oh you mean Zead?" "Yes, I never said Sett." "Yes you did." "No, I didn't" :P
Gorbashou (EUW)
: Thank you. I guess I'll have to start from scratch, which sucks. It's a bit sad too, since if there's any new players I could be considered a smurf, with years and years of playing, and even playing DotA 2. It's unfair to them too, having to deal with a "smurf" when I just want to play the game.
As said you can try to contact the support, even if the chance is not very high that they can help you with your problem. Don't worry about being a smurf. LoL detects most smurfs and will try to put them in games with other smurfs.
: its been 24 hours no dialy reward.
In your profile, you can see if the daily reward is active. Also it should be mentioned that playing is not enough - you must also win the game.
Gorbashou (EUW)
: Returning player... permabanned for 3rd party software use?
Most likely someone stole your password and played with your account. Things like TS or discord does not count as 3rd party software. With 3rd party software they mean that someone played on your account while using software which interferes with the game. Riot does not tell you what 3rd party software was used, as they don't want people to learn directly from it, by saying "this file and this file interferes with the game and gets you banned." People who write such software can use this to write software which is not detected by league of legends. Hence Riot just bans all flagged accounts in waves (every few months). As you have noticed someone played games on your computer... as it is very unlikely that someone hacked your account (which would mean hacking riot games), someone most likely got the password from somewhere else. Most likely this means that you had either a very weak password or some malware on your computer. You can try to contact riot support, but as you are the one who is responsible for the safety of your account (having a safe password, don't share the password with someone and so on), the account will most likely be banned, as you can't proof that it was in fact someone else and not yourself playing from the account.
: did not get my daily reward
Daily means every 22 hours. So if you got it yesterday at 20, then you will have it available today at 18.
: Ok riot what's with my placements??
It also depends from your rank last season. You will nearly never place higher. As you were always bronce, you should not expect to get higher than bronce with placements. A gold player could get gold with 10/10. (you also just play against players who have your elo, while the gold player will play against stronger opponents) The placements aren't meant to give you a higher rank than before. That's what the season is for and where you can proof yourself.
: leave in select champion = ban !? why
Imagine if there is no punishment... The enemy outpicks you? Just leave. You want to pick a banned champion? Just leave. You don't like the matchup on your lane? Just leave. You will never be able to start a game in ranked, if there is no punishment for leaving in champion select.
: Shamed on some Players from Germany
I wouldn't say german people... As someone who understands german, spanish and a little bit of french, I must say that in my games spanish people flame the most in their own language, french speak the most in their language and germans are a mixture of both. They speak less than french in their language and they flame less then spanish guys. Is it okay? No, all of them shouldn't flame. But it is not a german problem.
: dont reverse psychology on me you smack talker...google that word so you can maybe learn more about your self
I think I know more than enough about me. I actually trying to get a better self all the time. So I never blame others about things that happen. You are just blaming the others, instead of thinking about yourself. That just shows that you are a different kind of person. Doesn't mean a bad kind, it just mean that you blame others first in such kind of situations. This just means that you are slower to adapt to new situations.^^
: Please Buff or change the forgotten champions
Those champions are not forgotten, they are (similar to Yuumi) just competitive victims. Making them stronger will make them completely op in competitive.
: are you a Riot employee ?
No, but we are here in the public forums. If you write something there, normal players will answer you. Also normal players will be able to answer 99% of your questions, so why bother employees? If you don't want players to answer your question: Don't write here. Also about the name of the topic "freedom of spech". Just look at this comic. It explains exactly why this has nothing to do with freedom of speech: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png Also you should think about yourself a bit more. You can't call everyone else a special snowflake - actually you aresaying that all the others don't accept the truth and can't handle you... well... seems like you can't handly everyone else. (so you are the special one here, as you are different to everyone else and you can't handle that others have a different opinion)
KETΛMINE (EUW)
: Why does riot make missions based on playing a certain character?
It doesn't hurt you to take longer for the missions. There aren't an infinite amount of missions, mostly there are about 6 missions in a row and you have 1-2 months for it. If you do it in 2 days... great, you have nothing to do for the next 1 month. If you take 1 month. Great, you still got the same as the person who did it on one day. Most missions have some type of theme. Something like "It is christmas, so play champions with a christmas skin!". That's the reason why sometimes champions are named. But of course not everyone can or want to play those champions. So there is always the second option: Just play the game. You don't loose anything by taking longer than others. Don't feel bad, as you take longer. I personally have finished most missions with the second option. I don't care to be the first one who finished it. I know that I will finish it and get the same as everyone else. :)
sexylord (EUW)
: XP Changes
You know that the changes for mid and top were somewhat about 2% more XP? It is mostly the same as before, only marginal XP changes. If you are lvl 5 and the midlane is lvl 8, it would have been the same as before the patch.
: Akali E
They actually showed those interactions in the champion spotlight, it is completely intended. If she jumps back in your base, it is compeltely her fault for being dumb. But she can also follow on tps with the ability.
: whats wrong with the blue essence then? they might buy a champion thats not on rotation if they are level 1?
You don't use blue essence for TFT. So TFT would give you something, you can only spend for another game, not the game itself. That's why it does not give BE.
Shamose (EUW)
: How to be a proper Anti of riot games?
You stated no facts. The facts were stated against you. :)
: It's not their opinion, they just copy pasted riot's official answer. This is pure whiteknighting, i'm not here to discuss how bad or good it is. I posted it, cuz i express my opinion and who wants to share it with me can comment it with their own feelings about it. Answers "they don't have time, they already answered 2.5 years ago" is a form of either spam, or offensive behavior. Community in a nutshell really deserves generic events like the last one and reducing number of gamemodes. Poor indie company doesn't have resources, what's that? You care about their billions? One by one, opinions should be expressed. Or you always can keep quiet and take care of profits Chinese mega corporation. Your choice.
You just said that everyone who has a different opinion than you should not say it. You just stated that you don't want a discussion or facts or anything else. You just want that everyone has your opinion. An opinion can always be stated by facts or facts can be used to show that an opinion is bad. Here noone even said that your opinion is bad. People just told you that it won't be done. Period. Noone even said that you should stop commenting or flamed you. You were the one who said that people with a different opinion shouldn't write here, you are the "whiteknight against riot", if you want it so. Everything we have done is telling you that no matter what your opinion is, you should not expect riot do fullfill your wishes.
: Create a gamemode with the exact same game like it was in season 1
Just because someone answers your question, does not mean that they whiteknight them or are a good puppy. These here are the forums, riot games won't answer you here. Here the players will answer. If you don't want them to answer, then you are at the wrong place. Of course you can state your opinion - but so can all the others. Also - as stated - riot already answered to your question. It's like saying: "I would love if I could fly on my own, just with my normal body." "That's physical impossible, see at this paper here:LINK." "What are you? A physicist? Keep whiteknighting the physicists, you will get one atom for it." I would %%%%ing love playing S1 and S2 again. If there was an event for a weekend, I would do nothing but play those seasons again. It would be the best event since years.^^ But I also have enough technical knowledge, that I can understand their point.
: People sucking with a champion is not an indecation of balance. It’s playability and effect in pro play and the highest Elo is. Ryzen won every lane at worlds and was sent to go 1v1 the the bruisers and ryze has a 49%. Pros do not have room to care about your easy to mess with winrate.
Yes, pro play is something compeltely different, we all know that. But pro play is something competlely different than solo queue. Pro play is even something compeltely different than master solo queue. You can do things in pro play, which are not possible in solo queue, hence other champions are stronger. It does not mean that those champions are stronger overall, but they are stronger in a special environment. If you look at solo queue (even master solo queue), you will notice that some of your champions are just weak. Champions whcih rely on good teamplay are weak in solo queue, as it is not possible to work together as pros do. But therefore champions, which punish bad teamplay are a lot stronger. You can't compare pro play to solo queue. Otherwise champions like Garen or Teemo would need huge buffs.
Iskander92 (EUNE)
: game is a trash
> Buying champions is pain.... lvling up gets slower after time. U get 50 BE for first win...total trash even from year ago Leveling gets slower, but every 25 levels it resets to the start. Also getting BE is way faster than getting IP.
xviii001 (EUW)
: i don't think bad skins need that much work compared with epic and legacie skins
That is not my opinion, but riot games said it.^^ So it is not about what we think or not, it is about the numbers which riot games has. I don't have the link anymore, but basically: Noone buys cheap skins. Everyone buys more expensive skins. Hence using ressources for cheap skins will actually lower the income of riot games, as they can make less expensive skins (and some of the guys who buy cheap skins will perhaps buy less expensive skins) Also a ton of the newer chromas are basically cheap skins. Have you seen the chromas for Beemo? Those would have been 520 or 750 RP skins in the past.^^
xviii001 (EUW)
: skins
Riot said that only very few people bot them, as they changed too little. Most guys just buy 1350+, that's why they they just add those skins. It was just not worth doing the other skins.^^
SayDaddy (EUW)
: they should change it fast it's the worst skin ever
Well, I personally think it looks funny. Of course there could be more particles, but all of the changes would be change just for the sake of change.
Rinart73 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=wth1Aakm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-13T10:04:23.907+0000) > > I don't think that the banning system need any change currently. There are a ton of op champions, so it is not possible to just ban broken champions. So it is already stupid to ban those champions and you can just ban what you don't want to play against.^^ I'm not going to dive into numbers, because I think everyone's opinion about trash, op, unplayable champs is different **but valid**. But with Riot releasing more and more champions and not properly balancing them or buffing champs just to sell a skin (hello Pyke), we need more bans. If Riot don't have time/will to work on balance anymore, they can do the easy thing at least - give us more ban slots.
Well, saying something is overpowered is not an opinion, as it states a fact, which should be proven. Saying something is disgusting to play against on the other hand si something else, that can be opinion based. ALso my comment implied that you are wrong with the bans. Imagine that there are 7 op champions and you have 6 bans... then there will always be one op champion available, so one side always has an advantage. If there are 146 op champions, then you can ban 10 of them, but still every player will have an op champion for himself... So it is actually more balanced for the game. Also it will lead to more diversity, as everyone will start banning the op champions they don't like to play against - so there will not be champions like Yasuo, who are bannd 99.9% of the games. So making mroe champions op actually makes the game more balanced: If every champion is op, then noone is. Giving more bans will lead to exactly this problem: There will be some champions who are always banned, even though they are not that op. asuo was not op... it was just disgusting to play against him. Even as Yuumi had around 40% winrate, she was still banned, even though she was far from being op in soloqueue. People just didn't want to play against a cat, which can't be attacked. Also people will never udnerstand if a champions is really op or not... There will be champions who are ctually easy to play against, but as there were quite a few bad games 10 patches ago, people will always ban him. If the champion is actually played some times, people will notice that he is perhaps not that op and learn how to play against him. Tl;dr: Your idea will make balance worse. Your idea will make gameplay worse (some champions will always be banned) Your idea will make people play worse against banned champions, which will lead to even more bans of that champion. (vicious circle)
: Champ ban Idea?
Akali has a 46.4% winrate. She looses most of her games (by far)... All the others are at a stable 52% winrate. Also what about the real broken champions? Champions like Janna, Aurelion, Warwick, Mordekaiser, Shaco, Soraka, Ahri, Maokai, Taric, Kled, Kassadin all have a higher winrate than all the champions you mentioned. Just because you have problems fighting against some champions, doesn't mean that they are op. (I personally ban Brand in 99% of my games, as I hate playing against him) I don't think that the banning system need any change currently. There are a ton of op champions, so it is not possible to just ban broken champions. So it is already stupid to ban those champions and you can just ban what you don't want to play against.^^
SayDaddy (EUW)
: how is this shit a legendary skin ?
Back when the skin was released, all legendaries were like that.
: lost gemstones
Did someone else used all the gemstones? Normally if something like that happens someone else got your password and got into your account. (just look at your recently acquired skins)
: Bring Back Elo
Elo basically still exists. There was always the mmr in the background and elo just was the number of your mmr. This is still exactly the same as before. THe only difference is that they don't show you a number, but a shiny symbol. Everthing else is still the same. KDA also does not matter at all and never has for ranking. As you assumed the difference is that he played before. His elo was higher than yours at the beginning, so after 10 plays (which you played together) his elo is still higher than yours.^^
: Gameplay : secondary role and autofill
>We would wait an eternity before all games Actually if you play ranked, they give you your first role almost everytime and we don't wait crazy windows of times to get a ranked game. Why wouldn't it work for the normal Draft ? As far as I know the system is exactly the same for normals and for rankeds. Probably people in normals just want to have more fun and a lot of people like mid lane champions most... so even if they are stronger on another role (which they play on ranked), they just all play midlane. Let's be honset: How many mid lane mains do you know who say "Let's play support just for a change!" and how many supports to you know that say "Let's play midlane for a change!" There are very few people who say "I like to play support so much, so that I play it all the time in normal!", while I know a lot of people, who play support in ranked, but don't play it at all in normals. Actually noone talks about being selfish. The main reason ist he time. We do not talk about "double the time" or "triple the time", but more about waiting 30 minutes for each game or longer. (and then a person dodges and we have to wait another 30 minutes)
: Unplayable SONA
Concerning winrate: Place 15 of 32 supports. 50.6% winrate Doesn't seem like she is nerfed completely into the ground. Just look at yuumi with 39.4% winrate, Tahm with 44.3% winrate, galio with 45.5% winrate or alistar with 47% winrate. Just because Sona had a 55% winrate in solo queue for the past few years and now she is at 50%, does NOT mean that she is unplayable.
Greeapa (EUNE)
: Alistar skin idea
I am still waiting for a female alistar skin, just for the line "You CAN milk those"
: nerf yuumi
Oh you are right. She doesn't have a 39% winrate in Aram, as in normals. She has a 44% winrate. I have heard that all op champions have a winrate below 44%.
: Troll or Troller?
Why the hell troller? A troller is type of a car.
SRT Nopliz (EUNE)
: Support, viable champs and builds.
> I feel like all of the above really encourages you to play enchanter supports like Soraka, Nami, Yuumi etc. Yuumi got hit really hard by this changes. Those changes doesn't encourage anyone to play Yuumi.
: what is a good fps to play smoothly?
"Smoothly" is always relative. If you just cap your fps at 100, after 2-3 weeks, it will seem smoothly for you. I have played on 80 for a long time and had no problem. It seems perfectly smoothly for me. Then I got up to 200 and now everything below 150 looks horrible and I can't play with it. Your main problem is the change of fps. If your computer is not good enough for high quality, then cap your fps and play for some weeks.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Man, you wrote wall of text with wrong math. Can we just take as example your games in the preseason? The 1/7 thresh game and the 2/8 senna. Senna... 35 minute game, only 2 items finished... total damage to champions 8k... Thresh... 28 minute game, 2 items finished... total damage to champions 7k... This is bullshit man. And you lie. But not to me, that does not matter. You are lieing to yourself. Look your gold curve... Steady 6.4k gold for 28 minutes. Same with senna... 7.1k gold... at 28 minute. You are behind all game, with little resources, underleveled. Now tell me that this was the case before pre season?
Please tell me where my maths are wrong. If I did wrong maths, then you should be able to say exactly where the maths in wrong in the text. Yes, I had two bad games. I had them before. Yes, things like that happened even before. If you test new things, you will most likely not be perfect. And if you look at those 2 games, you should also look at the other games. Like the Leona game, where I was full build quite early If you look at statistics, you should never just look at 2 or 3 games. You need to look at a huge amount of data. That's how statistics work. You are just looking at some unique cases and not at the theory behind everything. You need to look at everything and not just at "some games I played".
Zenith (EUNE)
: Why would they encourage passive play over active playing? 1 gold per 10 seconds means 270 gold over 45 minutes. That's nothing. Losing active gold gain means you're stuck on 3-item build at endgame while everyone else finishes their build. Because all gold gain is passive, you're reliant on **other players** in your team to be successful and hoping to get assist credit somewhere. Isn't the one thing everyone hates about support role being everyone's b**ch? This patch only reinforces that idea. Take away mana regen for support item _and_ ocean drake means mana-hungry supports like Sona are nerfed into oblivion. Have fun going back to base just to refill your mana bar. You won't get to buy anything because your gold income at 30 minutes is about 500 starter + 1000 gold active + 4070 gold passive = 5570 without assists. My typical build costs about 14k.
1. You are support, not a carry. Remember S1? You had shurelias, if you were rich at the end of a game. Or no item at all. (actually I loved playing support back then) 2.) Getting no money means that you actually have to play more active and not passive. You have to get kills or assists in LG. Your job is not to attack an enemy, just for 20 gold. You hav to kill them. 3.) I did not feel like anyones female dog in my games as support in this season. I got a lot more freedom with additional items in EG-MG and got much earlier than before to a 2-3 item powerspike. I had the feeling that in this time I were actually strong and could do way more than before. The only difference was Yuumi. I think her win rate will drop even further. Only after 30-40 minutes I noticed that I was weaker, if I did not manage to get a lot of assists. As Leona I had no problems being full build at the end of my games or at least have about the same items as before. Noone says that you are rich af as support in this season. Imo people just overexaggerate a ton. Same with the experience. People are always crying that the midlaner is 10 levels above them. (yes, I exaggerated a bit), even though it is about the same as before. There are just minimal changes, especially as the games end earlier, will probably have more kills because of drakes and sometimes the ADC will be alone instead of a solo laner after 15 minutes. Those are small changes, which you need to get used to, but it won't change much about most game patterns. (and if some champions like Yuumi or Sona are too weak now, those champions can be balanced afterwards and don't have to be balanced around an item anymore)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cBR5tHfI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:34:36.327+0000) > > You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. > All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. Do you understand that **after minute 20 the supports have no income** other than kills and assists .?. You want them to exchange their whole game gold income for 1400 gold .?.
I understand it and as I said above: You will get to a point (at around 25-30 minutes) when you would have more money with the old items. Even if you don't get any money through your support items, the new items will be more cost efficient than the old ones for a couple of more minutes. As the games will probably also be shorter than in earlier seasons, as dragons can get so %%%%ing strong, you will most likely be stronger for a long period of time than before and only in LG weaker. (probably just for 3-5 minutes at most in nearly all games... and if you get a kill or two because of your additional strength earlier, it might actually be even less time) I understand everything you said, but after a couple of games, I must say that I still get all my items with most supports. Relic shield supports as Leona still get a ton of money with assists and you can easily be full build at 35-40 minutes. I only had problems with champs like Yuumi, who got an incredible amount of money with the old spellthief's.
lechieur6 (EUW)
: no you take the old cost as a base . but the new item is not worth 1800 gold with no mana , cdr and damage on hit anymore. not even close to it.
Actually wioth 1800 you can buy items which give you all the stats you had before AND still have money left.
: so i played my first game with Leona and i gotta say i'm not bothered by the cut healing or by the gold income or by the exp cut... it still feels like normal tbh, i didn't notice anything weird or off that i was like mmm i could do this before but not now... the only thing i do think is that it's really stupid that we only have support items that generate damage.... so +X AD/AP, that's just weird i mean you don't need damage as a Leona support, you need to be able to go in and get out with at least half your hp still there.... so give us a support item that improves MR or Armor and i'm happy, the rest of the stats can stay as it won't make me play less or w/e
I also played as Leona yesterday and I agree with you. Feels kinda normal for most of the time. It was just a bit annoying that I couldn't help pushing in LG by lasthitting the minions. (perhaps something like: lasthitting will give you no gold, but give the closest ally all the gold?) would be nice. But I still got all my items. A pure defensive item would be really great, but I think they did this on purpose. All support items give roughly the same (just about a ruby crystal and an apmlifying tome difference) in LG - the only difference is how you get there. You can decide if you want to do it by last hitting minions and pushing the wave or attacking the enemy. That's the main difference I feel between the items.
: Just has my 1st game in new patch. As Zyra i got Frostfang before 8min, then Shard of true Ice upgrade got before 14 minutes. It was a sad game, as opponents either were really bad, or Lux support was afraid of being mana/CDR deprived to counter me.
Yes, but you did not pay for the upgrades. If you count in the costs upgrades, it normally takes until 25 minutes (roughly) before you have less money than before.
: tbh i hadn't really read all of the patch notes but now that i have, i don't think it'll be an issue for me as i rarely go above 50 CS in an entire game length anyway with Leona xD sometimes i do when the game takes like an hour but the average is 35~40 CS so i won't have the problem with the cut down gold anyway and then it is nicer i get the item for free yes, i have always felt like i was somewhat behind w.r.t. other lanes and such especially if you're failing your lane but maybe this balances it out a bit better so i geuss i'll just have to experience and see how it goes with my beloved Leona
Another Leona main! :D (I play Leona since S2 and she is my fallback champion whenever I don't know what do play) If I look at the brutal changes to dragons (damn, they seem strong), I think that the games will probably end a lot quicker. Snowballing seems easier and early fights round the dragons seem more important. The elder buff seems like riot's version of saying "No matter what you do... Win the %%%%ing game now". xD So it seems even less important, that supports won't get a lot of money in LG. We will see if I am correct or not, but I personally don't think that Leona&co will get a lot weaker. Also roaming as a support might get more rewarding, as the ADC will get a lot more experience, so even if you don't manage to kill someone, you will at least get a high level ADC out of it. :D
CJXander (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gnominator,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cBR5tHfI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:34:36.327+0000) > > You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. > All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. > > Sp you will only have less money than before the patch, if you got more than 2400 gold with relic shield. The other money items are similar to this. > How often did you get 2400 gold with one support item? I don't think that it happened so often. > And as you won't have to spend early money on your support item, you can spend your money on something else and get other items earlier. The lack of CDR and mana regen are bigger than the gold cut, i will simply switch to jungle or adc.
Look at the comment I copied above. You will only really be hit by the missing CDR in LG, as you can simply use the money to buy CDR, mana re AND still have money left to buy something else until then. Also people always rage about things like that... "Omg, ADC is now unplayable, because of preseason"... "Jungle is now useless thanks to preseason."... Every year people say that everything is now completely useless or op in preseason.
: you have to admit though that even if they make the item free, they're gonna cut down the gold earnings of the role that already got the least gold of everyone in the game but does have the highest responsibility in the first place xD sounds fishy to me tbh
I wrote some thoughts about that in another topic, I will just copy them here. You can see that the money cut actually doesn't really matter in most games. It will only hit you in late game. Please note that I am a support main since S1, so I am actually directly hit by that. So it's not just an "omg, nerf all supports, they are too strong, I want to be the only strong person"^^ Let's have a look at the money of spell thief (I won't look at the others, as it would take too much time to look at everything) I won't take into consideration that new spellthief's will get upgraded instantly if you are 5 seconds out of combat and for the old you have to go back. (I wiill take the optimum, so old one gets upgraded instantly, which makes it actually stronger than it truly was) Currently: Costs: 400 Tribute (maximal) 15 every 10 seconds 2 every 10 seconds So you can get 17 every 10 seconds. So after 294.11 seconds, you can get the first Upgrade and Afterwards you can get 18 every 10 seconds, so after another 277.77 seconds you can get the final upgrade. This means that after around 572 seconds you can have 1000 gold because of this item AND a fully upgraded support item. Let's say that you start stacking at 2:30, then you will have it fully stacked at 14:32. So you will have: 60 AP 150 HP 1000 gold (+passive Gold: about 2500) Old version: Cost: 400 11 gold every 10 seconds (maximum) 2 golds every 10 seconds (passive) That means you start with 13 every 10 seconds. With the passive gold bonus, you will get 32 every 10 seconds. That means if you play optimal you can get your upgrade after 140 seconds (same starting time as above, this means at 4:50). Paying 450 you god frostfang: 22 every 10 seconds (if always attacked perfectly) 2 every 10 seconds (passive) Your support item will be at 182 gold. To get to 500, you will need 132.5 seconds. So you will have wards at 7:03 seconds. At 14:32 (when the new version is fully stacked), you will have another 1080 gold through the support item and 855 through passive gold. This means: Roughly you will have wards at about 7:20 with the new version, while a bit earlier (7:00) with the old version. The old version could be a little bit faster, if you get a very early kill or assist, but you also have to go back for it, what you don't need with the new version. So you get wards at about the same time. At 14:30: New version: 60 AP 150 HP 3500 gold Old version (without final upgrade) 20 AP 50% manareg 10% CDR 1935 gold Old Version (with final upgrade) 35 AP 10% CDR 200 HP 50% mana reg 985 gold If you compare it to frostfang, it has 40 AP more, 150 HP more, 10% CDR less and 50% manareg less. So raw statswise I would say that the new one is stronger. Also I believe that 10CDR and 50% manareg is not worth 1600 gold. (you can easily buy it with tat amount of gold) And I believe that with 40 AP will help you make about the same damage as you did before with the bonus magic damage you got on attacking. (especially as it counts for every attack, not only the first three ones) And you also must take into consideration that you have more wards from now on (which you onld had after upgrading the item fully in the old version) So currently, you will have about 1600 gold more with the new version. But from now on it won't give you anymore gold trhough attacking, just the 3 gold per 10 seconds. If you continue using your OLD frostfang perfectly, you will get 24 gold per 10 seconds, so every 10 seconds, you will get 21 gold closer. Hence you will be at the same amount of gold 760 seconds later, so around 27:10 you could (if everything works perfectly for you) have the same amount of gold than before. If you upgrade your support item fully, it will obviously take even more time and the point will be between 30 and 40 minutes. Obviously some other things might change the outcome of this theoretical approach. If an enemy survives with 10 hp with the new version, it would make the old item stronger. If you won't do everything perfectly (like having three stacks on your item for a few seconds, which will obviously happen frmo time to time, especially, when you go back and buy items or if you lasthit a minion, which also happens from time to tim, if you are playing Zyra) The first support item upgrade will come later, which is actually in favor of the new spellthief's. You are correct, that in the early game you are weaker, as you don't have the damage passive on the item. But as soon as you have a first upgrade, you will have more AP (with the additional money, you can always just buy AP items), which increases your damage and it will make you stronger than before. Reaching LG and full items will probably be more difficult than before. So we basically get: EG (until your first back and sup item upgrade at around 8-10 minutes): weaker MG (8-30 minutes): stronger LG: weaker (especially as you can't get 40% CDR as easy as before) Obviously that will be good for some supports and bad for other types of supports. But champions were always changing roles, depending on how everything fits for them. If support doesn't fit for Zyra anymore and she gets buffed, then we will maybe see Zyra midlane again. Champions like MF might be stronger as support again, as she can use the new items. Galio might also be mov viable as support now, as relic shield gives some AP. (If I did some maths wrong... tell me and please forgive me. Everyone does some mistakes from time to time:))
JustClone (EUNE)
: This "upgrades" is the same trap for low elo noobs with poor math knowledge as GP5 items/runes had. It gives you something small, at a later stage in the game, that cannot compensate the impact on raw stats at earlier stages of the game.
We will see how it turns out.^^ As a mathematic student who is currenly working on his master thesis, I believe that I have at least some knowledge about mathematics. ;) (even though I must say that we mathematicians actualle hate calculating stuff, as calculating has nothing to do with maths :P ) Especially as nearly everyone in high elo and in pro plays bought the GP10 items. They were incredible strong. And I wouldn't say that pro players are low elo noobs. :D Fnatic actually won first wolds, as they were the only team who perfected how to play with a support, who just had GP10 items and wards. All the american teams played without GP10 and got stomped because of that. So if you are talking about money... Let's have a look at the money of spell thief (I won't look at the others, as it would take too much time to look at everything) I won't take into consideration that new spellthief's will get upgraded instantly if you are 5 seconds out of combat and for the old you have to go back. (I wiill take the optimum, so old one gets upgraded instantly, which makes it actually stronger than it truly was) Currently: Costs: 400 Tribute (maximal) 15 every 10 seconds 2 every 10 seconds So you can get 17 every 10 seconds. So after 294.11 seconds, you can get the first Upgrade and Afterwards you can get 18 every 10 seconds, so after another 277.77 seconds you can get the final upgrade. This means that after around 572 seconds you can have 1000 gold because of this item AND a fully upgraded support item. Let's say that you start stacking at 2:30, then you will have it fully stacked at 14:32. So you will have: 60 AP 150 HP 1000 gold (+passive Gold: about 2500) Old version: Cost: 400 11 gold every 10 seconds (maximum) 2 golds every 10 seconds (passive) That means you start with 13 every 10 seconds. With the passive gold bonus, you will get 32 every 10 seconds. That means if you play optimal you can get your upgrade after 140 seconds (same starting time as above, this means at 4:50). Paying 450 you god frostfang: 22 every 10 seconds (if always attacked perfectly) 2 every 10 seconds (passive) Your support item will be at 182 gold. To get to 500, you will need 132.5 seconds. So you will have wards at 7:03 seconds. At 14:32 (when the new version is fully stacked), you will have another 1080 gold through the support item and 855 through passive gold. This means: Roughly you will have wards at about 7:20 with the new version, while a bit earlier (7:00) with the old version. The old version could be a little bit faster, if you get a very early kill or assist, but you also have to go back for it, what you don't need with the new version. So you get wards at about the same time. At 14:30: New version: 60 AP 150 HP 3500 gold Old version (without final upgrade) 20 AP 50% manareg 10% CDR 1935 gold Old Version (with final upgrade) 35 AP 10% CDR 200 HP 50% mana reg 985 gold If you compare it to frostfang, it has 40 AP more, 150 HP more, 10% CDR less and 50% manareg less. So raw statswise I would say that the new one is stronger. Also I believe that 10CDR and 50% manareg is not worth 1600 gold. (you can easily buy it with tat amount of gold) And I believe that with 40 AP will help you make about the same damage as you did before with the bonus magic damage you got on attacking. (especially as it counts for every attack, not only the first three ones) And you also must take into consideration that you have more wards from now on (which you onld had after upgrading the item fully in the old version) So currently, you will have about 1600 gold more with the new version. But from now on it won't give you anymore gold trhough attacking, just the 3 gold per 10 seconds. If you continue using your OLD frostfang perfectly, you will get 24 gold per 10 seconds, so every 10 seconds, you will get 21 gold closer. Hence you will be at the same amount of gold 760 seconds later, so around 27:10 you could (if everything works perfectly for you) have the same amount of gold than before. If you upgrade your support item fully, it will obviously take even more time and the point will be between 30 and 40 minutes. Obviously some other things might change the outcome of this theoretical approach. If an enemy survives with 10 hp with the new version, it would make the old item stronger. If you won't do everything perfectly (like having three stacks on your item for a few seconds, which will obviously happen frmo time to time, especially, when you go back and buy items or if you lasthit a minion, which also happens from time to tim, if you are playing Zyra) The first support item upgrade will come later, which is actually in favor of the new spellthief's. You are correct, that in the early game you are weaker, as you don't have the damage passive on the item. But as soon as you have a first upgrade, you will have more AP (with the additional money, you can always just buy AP items), which increases your damage and it will make you stronger than before. Reaching LG and full items will probably be more difficult than before. So we basically get: EG (until your first back and sup item upgrade at around 8-10 minutes): weaker MG (8-30 minutes): stronger LG: weaker (especially as you can't get 40% CDR as easy as before) Obviously that will be good for some supports and bad for other types of supports. But champions were always changing roles, depending on how everything fits for them. If support doesn't fit for Zyra anymore and she gets buffed, then we will maybe see Zyra midlane again. Champions like MF might be stronger as support again, as she can use the new items. Galio might also be mov viable as support now, as relic shield gives some AP. (If I did some maths wrong... tell me and please forgive me. Everyone does some mistakes from time to time:))
Infernape (EUW)
: It's not just 1150. It's effectively longer because of the lollipop effect which also got increased. Blitzcrank needs a rework. His kit was literally not designed for the support role. He was shoehorned into it because of his Q.
> It's not just 1150. It's effectively longer because of the lollipop effect which also got increased. Thresh and all the others have the same effect. My points still stand: It is only have a teemo more than Thresh&Co. And Blitz is support since S1. He was designed as a time, when there wasn't even a support role (same as soraka or other champions... back then there was no fixed meta and "duo lane" did not mean that just one person got all the money). I think he fits perfectly fine as a support.
CJXander (EUNE)
: After 6 years of supporing, i'm ditching the role
> no gold after item completion. You still get 1000 gold with the item, before it completes. All the upgrades are for free. So let's look at relic shield. The upgrade costs were 450+950=1400. Sp you will only have less money than before the patch, if you got more than 2400 gold with relic shield. The other money items are similar to this. How often did you get 2400 gold with one support item? I don't think that it happened so often. And as you won't have to spend early money on your support item, you can spend your money on something else and get other items earlier.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Man, if you are "happy" to see champions "nerfed to the ground" ... Why do you take part in something that is clearly discussion for balance? I mean, if your idea of fair game is to remove the champion completely and feel happy about it... You clearly cannot understand what is at stake here.
I think you missunderstood me. I think that those champions are great champions - I just don't like them as support. As midlaner or marksmen, everything would be fine for me. I think that as support they are antifun to play and therefore they should be balanced in a way, which makes them weaker as support, such that they can be buffed to be strong on other lanes again. Many champions got that treatment: They were broken, because of a rune/lane setup/item (I will just say X). They basically had to use X, as they are broken with it, but useless without it. Then riot removed x, because that gave them the freedom to buff the champions in another way and give them actually more unique playstyles and more possibilities in runes/items/whatever. I think that is a good way. Just remember the ardent meta. Ardent was completely broken and either all ardent champions would have needed a nerf or ardent needed a really hard nerf and a small rework. They decided to change ardent, as they did not want to reduce all healing and shieldung supports to "use ardent or be useless". I think it will be the same with spellthiefs. There were a ton of champions who used spellthiefs, even though they weren't really meant for it. So spellthiefs needed some changes. Also I think you forgot that they won't be nerfed so hard. Those champions are great with some ap and they will be able to build much more AP in the preseason, as they don't have to pay for the support item upgrades.
: connecting honour to rewards.
It was always clear that you need to fulfill two criterias: - be gold 4 or higher - be honour level 2 or higher If one of those fails, then you won't get anything. If you are not honour level 2 or higher and feel robbed, should everyone who is not gold 4 or higher, but is honour level 2 feel also robbed? As they also just managed to fulfill one of the two constraints?
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Gnominator

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