Cypherous (EUW)
: > Wrong. Read it again, your game knowledge sucks ass Wrong, YOU read it again UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, **the next basic attack deals 75% Base Attack Damage** (+50% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit (1.5 second cooldown). Note the LACK of the + before that 75%, as in its REDUCED to 75% Maybe you should actually understand the mechanics of the item in question instead of reading what you "think" it says > Argument from absolute ignorance thinking whatever you say is correct and thinking your irrelevant data backs it up. Well thats your opinion and you're entitled to it, that doens't change the facts that adding an AP ratio on the skill is a BAD idea, you've not yet proven otherwise > First you didn't prove it, then you seem to be assuming that something that is not meta and nobody wants to be meta to cause balance issues, which clearly shows that you don't read at all. Its got nothing to do with the meta lol, straight up balance, if you incentivise AP you end up with massive heals and damage, again that is NOT a balanced scenario, you are free to disagree all you want, but that doesn't change it > Except that it doesn't. You're literally just trying to impose your opinion on someone because of your superiority complex. Thing is, its not just my opinion, riot also decided NOT to give him an AP ratio on his Q despite 2 of his 4 skills having it, or are you just going to completely ignore that basic fact? So yeah, you can ask for it, but you refuse to accept the issues it would cause, at the end of the day, not happening
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JFTF0R5o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T12:31:31.416+0000) > > Wrong, YOU read it again > > UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, **the next basic attack deals 75% Base Attack Damage** (+50% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit (1.5 second cooldown). > > Note the LACK of the + before that 75%, as in its REDUCED to 75% > > Maybe you should actually understand the mechanics of the item in question instead of reading what you "think" it says the next basic attack deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+50% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit bonus magic damage on hit go ahead, test it, you'll find that you're wrong and you're already looking like an ignorant pos. > Well thats your opinion and you're entitled to it, that doens't change the facts that adding an AP ratio on the skill is a BAD idea, you've not yet proven otherwise And you're trying desperately to satisfy your superiority complex despite being terrible at the game, at gameknowledge and at arguing. > Its got nothing to do with the meta lol, straight up balance, if you incentivise AP you end up with massive heals and damage, again that is NOT a balanced scenario, you are free to disagree all you want, but that doesn't change it It's got everything to do with meta. Something that is a troll build will stay a troll build even if it is buffed a little. A troll build is not a balance issue but you're too tiny brained to see it. > Thing is, its not just my opinion, riot also decided NOT to give him an AP ratio on his Q despite 2 of his 4 skills having it, or are you just going to completely ignore that basic fact? It's your opinion, but your opinion is not validated because a bigger entity hasn't come around to think about it yet. > So yeah, you can ask for it, but you refuse to accept the issues it would cause, at the end of the day, not happening Not refusing any issues, pointing out the fact that there wouldn't be any. And honestly, taking balance advice from a silver 3 support main is pretty ridiculous. If you were on the balance team not just reddit would be making fun of you. My support account is higher ranked and I've only played ~20 ranked games on it.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > You're arguing against something which I didn't say, but here you go: "On the next note, the Q would actually hit for more than "726 raw damage", because you missed that the Q has a 100% AD ratio, which includes GP base AD.", next time, read before you reply... Except you're missing the part where LB reduces the AD from your next melee attack, and his Q counts as a melee attack, maybe you should read the description of the item? > You really do have the mindset of a goldfish who cannot look beyond his bowl of water. Champions who have abilities with AP ratios usually have more of them, so guess what happens when I put together the damage of a combo vs the possibility of AP GP doing a "Combo" (Hint: He doesn't have one, it's literally his only real damaging spell) Sure, but that doesn't change what i said, i mean, you clearly can't understand why having an AP ratio would be a bad idea, those AP champions also do not have massive self heals (there are a couple of fringe cases like kayle and soraka etc although kayles heal isn't exactly going to be giving anyone 800HP) > You were ignorant because you used misleading data to further your agenda. The misleading data being "high damage" that you "calculated". Your data is in no context to any actually possible scenario in the game and also still wrong as I have already proven above. I wasn't misleading at all, you just dislike that i proved that his Q with an AP ratio would be unbalanced and cause issues, hence why it doesn't have an AP ratio, not even "for funsies" > This has absolutely no relevancy to the point I was making. your "RAW DAMAGE" is absolutely no indicator of power in the game and is an absolutely useless stat. Except that it does, but again trying to convince you that its a bad idea would require you were able to actually look at the issue instead of expecting something he doesn't need > You spent a long time arguing against a point I didn't make with data that is not relevant while focused on trying to point out my supposed misunderstanding of the meaning of your point, which was wrong either way. If YOU misunderstood the point then thats on you, i gave you numbers within context, i told you why him having an AP ratio would be a bad idea, you're free to disagree with that point, but at the end of the day riot didn't give him an AP ratio for a reason despite 2 of his other skills having them, does that not give you even the smallest of hints?
"Except you're missing the part where LB reduces the AD from your next melee attack" Wrong. Read it again, your game knowledge sucks ass "you clearly can't understand why having an AP ratio would be a bad idea" Argument from absolute ignorance thinking whatever you say is correct and thinking your irrelevant data backs it up. "i proved that his Q with an AP ratio would be unbalanced and cause issues" First you didn't prove it, then you seem to be assuming that something that is not meta and nobody wants to be meta to cause balance issues, which clearly shows that you don't read at all. "Except that it does, but again trying to convince you that its a bad idea would require you were able to actually look at the issue instead of expecting something he doesn't need" Except that it doesn't. You're literally just trying to impose your opinion on someone because of your superiority complex. "If YOU misunderstood the point then thats on you, i gave you numbers within context" Your point and your context are both irrelevant. Your context was a made up scenario of post 40 minute AP GP with full items dealing damage with one ability. Your point was that it deals a lot of damage and it would "cause issues" to add more. Here's some context beyond your bowl of water. If AP GP is full build and level 18, then enemy champions are, too. If AP GP deals "high" amounts of damage with his undodgeable skill, then other champions either oneshot AP GP before he can even get into Q range or they tank the Q for about 2% of their max HP.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > Your numbers and your math are actually very misleading and ignorantly worded to fit your narrative as best as possible. Oh? do show me where the numbers are wrong, i'll wait, i did state it as raw damage, which i assumed you would understand to be "before resists", did i assume too much? > MORE THAN AN AP GP Q WOULD DEAL!!! (at least according to your calculation) I never said his damage was the highest, i just stated to you what the numbers actually are, and you're even comparing it to skills which have an AP ratio, so the fact that his numbers are within spitting distance of AP champs with AP ratios already doesn't give you enough of a hint that an AP scaling on his Q would be a terrible idea? > Or I can just point out why exactly your way of doing "math with the numbers" is insanely ignorant: Champions have regular Armor and MR Where was it ignorant, i stated RAW damage, are you not smart enough to know that means before resists? > You're actually just trying to be as ignorant and disingenuous as possible at this point and honestly I pity everyone who puts any more time than the 10 minutes I wasted on arguing this with someone who apparently lacks the mental capabilities to think about any implications of action and argument. Says the person who can't understand what raw damage means? :P I mean you're clearly ignorant yourself because i stated raw damage, so there was zero ignorance on my part rofl
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JFTF0R5o,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T21:43:08.026+0000) > > Oh? do show me where the numbers are wrong, i'll wait, i did state it as raw damage, which i assumed you would understand to be "before resists", did i assume too much? > > I never said his damage was the highest, i just stated to you what the numbers actually are, and you're even comparing it to skills which have an AP ratio, so the fact that his numbers are within spitting distance of AP champs with AP ratios already doesn't give you enough of a hint that an AP scaling on his Q would be a terrible idea? > > Where was it ignorant, i stated RAW damage, are you not smart enough to know that means before resists? > > Says the person who can't understand what raw damage means? :P > > I mean you're clearly ignorant yourself because i stated raw damage, so there was zero ignorance on my part rofl well, not entirely sure whether I need to say anything anymore, if you're so good at game knowledge and gamelogic you must be really good at the game... EDIT: but you know what, let's actually go into your points just to make some fun of them. Me: "Your numbers and your math are actually very misleading and ignorantly worded" You: "do show me where the numbers are wrong" You're arguing against something which I didn't say, but here you go: "On the next note, the Q would actually hit for more than "726 raw damage", because you missed that the Q has a 100% AD ratio, which includes GP base AD.", next time, read before you reply... You "I never said his damage was the highest" yes, neither did I, no need to point that out unless you want to reassure your tiny brain that you're right about something being wrong that nobody ever assumed. You: "the fact that his numbers are within spitting distance of AP champs with AP ratios already doesn't give you enough of a hint that an AP scaling on his Q would be a terrible idea?" You really do have the mindset of a goldfish who cannot look beyond his bowl of water. Champions who have abilities with AP ratios usually have more of them, so guess what happens when I put together the damage of a combo vs the possibility of AP GP doing a "Combo" (Hint: He doesn't have one, it's literally his only real damaging spell) You: "Where was it ignorant, i stated RAW damage" You were ignorant because you used misleading data to further your agenda. The misleading data being "high damage" that you "calculated". Your data is in no context to any actually possible scenario in the game and also still wrong as I have already proven above. You: "Says the person who can't understand what raw damage means?" This has absolutely no relevancy to the point I was making. your "RAW DAMAGE" is absolutely no indicator of power in the game and is an absolutely useless stat. You: "I mean you're clearly ignorant yourself because i stated raw damage, so there was zero ignorance on my part rofl" You spent a long time arguing against a point I didn't make with data that is not relevant while focused on trying to point out my supposed misunderstanding of the meaning of your point, which was wrong either way.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > it's already pointless to play AP GP... And people still sometimes play it for fun. You don't seem to realize that nobody wants AP GP to be meta. The issue is, if they gave him any kind of decent AP scaling it would be, his Q procs lich bane and once you add in the likes of ludens you're already talking quite silly damage from AP, so adding in ratios where they don't need to exist is only done when its not going to break something else, and because his heal already scales really well with AP its not likely to happen, "for fun" builds can only exist when they aren't going to potentially cause issues > I am under the impression that one was once playable and is no more, the other was once playable, was made unplayable and then made playable again. Yup, because AP GP would have caused issues had his AP scaling not been removed, MF's were added back because her skills don't proc things quite as badly so Mage Fortune wasn't going to break anything and it was infact mostly for support MF iirc to give her the ability to poke with MIR > The melee champion should have more damage or more health/healing than the ranged champion because of range disadvantage, so AP GP having a strong heal would be absolutely acceptable even if his damage was higher than the mediocrity I am asking for. And he does have more healing than her, even as Tankplank, remember, his Q can crit and applies on hit effects so will proc the likes of Lich bane, ludens etc, 700 AP GP already will hit like a truck with LB before it has any AP scaling, and because you also end up with CDR you'll also be spamming it like hell while also being able to essentially heal yourself back to full > You haven't stated many facts either way... "building 700 AP and getting damage and super strong heals is not really a great combo :P", this is an opinion, not a fact. Well you can call it an opinion, the numbers are there for you to work out yourself Assuming 700 AP and level 18 His Q will hit for 120 (skill damage) + 86 (75% base attack from LB) + 350 (50% AP from LB) + 100 + 70 (ludens proc and bonus AP) assuming the shot isn't a crit on a 3 second CD, that can't miss Thats 726 raw damage before any AP scaling, a 0.1 AP scaling would increase that by 70
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JFTF0R5o,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T17:05:29.563+0000) > > The issue is, if they gave him any kind of decent AP scaling it would be, his Q procs lich bane and once you add in the likes of ludens you're already talking quite silly damage from AP, so adding in ratios where they don't need to exist is only done when its not going to break something else, and because his heal already scales really well with AP its not likely to happen, "for fun" builds can only exist when they aren't going to potentially cause issues > > Yup, because AP GP would have caused issues had his AP scaling not been removed, MF's were added back because her skills don't proc things quite as badly so Mage Fortune wasn't going to break anything and it was infact mostly for support MF iirc to give her the ability to poke with MIR > > And he does have more healing than her, even as Tankplank, remember, his Q can crit and applies on hit effects so will proc the likes of Lich bane, ludens etc, 700 AP GP already will hit like a truck with LB before it has any AP scaling, and because you also end up with CDR you'll also be spamming it like hell while also being able to essentially heal yourself back to full > > Well you can call it an opinion, the numbers are there for you to work out yourself > > Assuming 700 AP and level 18 > > His Q will hit for 120 (skill damage) + 86 (75% base attack from LB) + 350 (50% AP from LB) + 100 + 70 (ludens proc and bonus AP) assuming the shot isn't a crit on a 3 second CD, that can't miss > > Thats 726 raw damage before any AP scaling, a 0.1 AP scaling would increase that by 70 GP didn't have any AP ratios removed in the rework btw, he was playable as AP GP before Lich Bane was nerfed from a 75% AP spellblade proc to a 50% AP spellblade proc and was a funny trollpick afterwards. You don't even know what you're talking about and are arguing against it... Your numbers and your math are actually very misleading and ignorantly worded to fit your narrative as best as possible. 700 AP is a full AP build with 6 items all for AP, meaning the "assuming the shot isn't a crit" is absolute bs. On the next note, the Q would actually hit for more than "726 raw damage", because you missed that the Q has a 100% AD ratio, which includes GP base AD. Now I can either make a case where I compare it to any other targeted ability that looks like it should oneshot when I do the math, for example Annie Q, which does 220 (base) + 560 (AP ratio) + 100 (ludens) + 70 (Ludens AP ratio) = 950 RAW DAMAGE on a ~3 second cooldown. Or let's do the same with a champion you play... Janna W: 235 (base) + 350(AP ratio) + 100 (Ludens) + 70 (Ludens AP ratio) + 50 (35% bonus movespeed scaling assuming regular 45 movespeed, rest of movespeed coming from AP scaling bonus movespeed on W) = 805 RAW DAMAGE! MORE THAN AN AP GP Q WOULD DEAL!!! (at least according to your calculation) Or I can just point out why exactly your way of doing "math with the numbers" is insanely ignorant: Champions have regular Armor and MR, most champions gain enough base armor in a game to block at least half of any physical damage they take. In the worst case scenario, so a ranged champion with only base MR he will still block almost 25% of magic damage. The damage you calculated for AP GP has mixed damage components, some of it being physical, so it's generally being blocked more than the magic portion. Unlike a champion who would do a full magic damage hit like the calculations for Annie and Janna up there. Lastly... High damage numbers for this kind of extreme lategame are absolutely normal and what you calculated is comparatively VERY LOW, especially considering that it's AP GPs only damage source outside of a 100 sec CD ult (after CDR, not before). You're actually just trying to be as ignorant and disingenuous as possible at this point and honestly I pity everyone who puts any more time than the 10 minutes I wasted on arguing this with someone who apparently lacks the mental capabilities to think about any implications of action and argument.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > I am not suggesting giving him 200% AP ratio combos while having a 90% AP ratio heal (like Vladimir and Sylas pretty much have). Thing is, if the ratio was too low it would be pointless to play AP, and if its high enough to make it worth playing then its going to give him massive heals regardless > Also ignoring that MF deals her AP damage from 1,1k range with a simple click of a button while AP GP currently has to go into 600 range to deal any mixed damage is pretty disingenuous and thoughless. You're under the impression that they somehow need to be on par with each other, MF is a ranged champion while GP is primarily a melee champion, their ranges are going to differ wildly, they are not meant to be equal > You have actually put half a second of thought into it before being negative already. If stating facts is "negative" to you then thats your own issue to deal with
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JFTF0R5o,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T14:09:19.334+0000) > > Thing is, if the ratio was too low it would be pointless to play AP, and if its high enough to make it worth playing then its going to give him massive heals regardless > > You're under the impression that they somehow need to be on par with each other, MF is a ranged champion while GP is primarily a melee champion, their ranges are going to differ wildly, they are not meant to be equal > > If stating facts is "negative" to you then thats your own issue to deal with it's already pointless to play AP GP... And people still sometimes play it for fun. You don't seem to realize that nobody wants AP GP to be meta. I am under the impression that one was once playable and is no more, the other was once playable, was made unplayable and then made playable again. You have actually made my point here... The melee champion should have more damage or more health/healing than the ranged champion because of range disadvantage, so AP GP having a strong heal would be absolutely acceptable even if his damage was higher than the mediocrity I am asking for. You haven't stated many facts either way... "building 700 AP and getting damage and super strong heals is not really a great combo :P", this is an opinion, not a fact. Vladimir and Sylas players will disagree with you. People who play Supports with strong AP ratios on their heals and shields while also having AP ratio on their damage should disagree with you... except you're one of them. Yes, MF doesn't have a heal. That's one fact. That making her AP build acceptable is an opinion.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > Is it not possible for Gangplank to get the same treatment or is AP GP a playstyle that shouldn't be strong? If so, for what reasons? His heal scales with AP, so building 700 AP and getting damage and super strong heals is not really a great combo :P MF doesn't have a self heal outside of items she buys and runes, so thats why AP is still viable for her damage skills
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JFTF0R5o,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-24T13:24:36.905+0000) > > His heal scales with AP, so building 700 AP and getting damage and super strong heals is not really a great combo :P > > MF doesn't have a self heal outside of items she buys and runes, so thats why AP is still viable for her damage skills I am not suggesting giving him 200% AP ratio combos while having a 90% AP ratio heal (like Vladimir and Sylas pretty much have). I am suggesting some mediocre mixed damage while keeping the current heal instead of the current 50-100 magic damage single target every 4 seconds while the rest is base damage. Also ignoring that MF deals her AP damage from 1,1k range with a simple click of a button while AP GP currently has to go into 600 range to deal any mixed damage is pretty disingenuous and thoughless. You have actually put half a second of thought into it before being negative already.
Rioter Comments
Silent Note (EUNE)
: Am I missing something or people are spamming the forums for 2BE and an icon?
: There is no difference between normals and ranked. You get banned if you behave in an unsportsmanlike behavior. you clearly said "ur both garbage" "ur trash" which is trash talking other people. So that ban was well deserved and fair.
> [{quoted}](name=Doom emissary,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=K8T8vAAO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-03T00:12:44.435+0000) > > There is no difference between normals and ranked. You get banned if you behave in an unsportsmanlike behavior. > you clearly said "ur both garbage" "ur trash" which is trash talking other people. So that ban was well deserved and fair. did I say it's unfair? I get that some people can't take banter and report people for it despite bantering back, but I would like a 14 day ban to be justified with racism, hate speech, promoting self harm or severe profanity, which the summoners code requires for a ban without warning.
Shamose (EUW)
: > ps: yes, I do write "%%%" occasionally (once a week) when I get very upset, Lel wtf I got instant 14 days for doing it once. Like first offence on an account that has been clean since season 2. And you get a %%%%ing free pass once a week? How much do you pay rito? ######Well Not enough i guess
> [{quoted}](name=Shamose,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=K8T8vAAO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-02T23:43:03.099+0000) > > Lel wtf I got instant 14 days for doing it once. Like first offence on an account that has been clean since season 2. > > And you get a %%%%ing free pass once a week? How much do you pay rito? > > ######Well Not enough i guess hmm, I play this as a free to play game actually, I get all my skins from honor, which was honor 5 up until very recently. But I'm already guessing that if anyone who can look into reports comes here they're gonna point out that I had two of THOSE games today and that caused the ban. Well, bad day -> worse day what can you do... But I would like to have a chatlog that reflects actual flame instead of something that just makes me hate the company instead of myself for being a garbage human being. Also what do I learn from having my honor reset in preseason when I got honor 5 each season since the honor system got reworked and I have a 14 day suspension instead of a chat restriction. Am I supposed to learn how nice life is without league?
Rioter Comments
Tarolock (EUNE)
: this is the problem with gamemodes, ppl like you... you dont want to have fun, you want to WIN, and thats not the same... you pick brand, sona, veigar, jax to WIN, but that does not make the game fun, you instakill ppl and just walk over the map, how is that supposed to be fun? you know what was fun? picking old yorick in the old urf and watching the ghouls go rampant, urf was the first gamemode where i saw yorick, he was that bad, but in urf he was fun, back then you could pick anything in urf and you had a fun game, i remember i obliterated a xin+malph with nami+janna combo, and it was fun, but now everyone want to win, if you dont pick from the 20 op champs who can win 1v5 you either ff at 8 min or watch the whole 18 mins in black and white... and that is not fun, this is why YOU dont have fun
> [{quoted}](name=FleaLess,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=vYUQJ1Zj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-10T21:11:59.961+0000) > > this is the problem with gamemodes, ppl like you... you dont want to have fun, you want to WIN, and thats not the same... you pick brand, sona, veigar, jax to WIN, but that does not make the game fun, you instakill ppl and just walk over the map, how is that supposed to be fun? you know what was fun? picking old yorick in the old urf and watching the ghouls go rampant, urf was the first gamemode where i saw yorick, he was that bad, but in urf he was fun, back then you could pick anything in urf and you had a fun game, i remember i obliterated a xin+malph with nami+janna combo, and it was fun, but now everyone want to win, if you dont pick from the 20 op champs who can win 1v5 you either ff at 8 min or watch the whole 18 mins in black and white... and that is not fun, this is why YOU dont have fun wait a second wait a second. Isn't the Issue I am complaining about exactly the type of person you are labeling me as? People picking champions to win because winning is the only thing that matters to them. I tried playing 4 games of Innervating Locket Udyr because I thought it might be fun. None of the games turned out to be fun because I couldn't do anything against 80% of the enemy team because they picked champions to win. And as I already mentioned. Most of the "autowin champions" are not fun to play for me, which is why I am asking how other people seem to be having fun in a gamemode in which, in my personal experience, more than 75% of players play "autowin champions" because the only thing that is fun for them is to win. You frame me as exactly what I am complaining about. I want to be able to play everything in Blitz, but if more than 50% of your interaction with other champions is not being able to move then fun goes down the drain very quickly.
Rioter Comments
: Greetings, it does seem and feel a bit too overpowered sometimes but you highlighted the wrong reasons to why. First of all, this ability as you previously mentioned prevents movement abilities such as flash, yasuo's E, lee sin's W. Therefor, this ability together with her q (the burst of movement speed her q grants, specificaly) is a pretty great combo when used correctly as it screws over any high mobility champion. However, its damage is not to be worried about, its duration is small and its couldown is huge, balancing it out a little bit. Finally, it is fair to say that this ability is balanced as it can punish the enemy when used correctly but can also be counterplayed easily.
> but can also be counterplayed easily. ...Hard CC Cassiopeia, anything else? You can try to outdamage her, but unless you're a >4 item ADC you most probably wont
: > because most Cassiopeias max Q nobody does that, they max E first
It's sad that some people read something and already forget what they read 20 seconds before > ...instead of maxing Q second, maxed W second. > ...because most Cassiopeias max Q there is absolutely no "first" in that sentence EDIT: eh shit, unused account, you're here to troll me and I fell for it
Rioter Comments
GLurch (EUW)
: This is probably intended, as it would be pretty strong if towers didn't one shot them. Think about it: You could use the ghouls to towerdive anyone without much of a risk.
well, but it's also quite weak if they get oneshot by a swain top who autoattacks each one with 60 AD while they have 350 HP why do they even have HP if they just get oneshot by everything apart from minions? They could just aswell have HP like Zyra Plants
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Infernape (EUW)
: Nobody is that stupid mate. Try again.
now I wonder what this said
Doomley (EUW)
: Reducing his ult cast time would actually be a bigger buff than the current one. Even though he did gain that 0,1 ratio, have you actually calculated how little it actually is considering his build path? It only helps his wave clear.
waveclear is supposed to be his weakness. If he suddenly clears a wave by ulting on it 2 times he becomes a splitpush monster (at which he is already pretty good). I'd rather have his teamfighting buffed than his splitpushing... at least in my opinion
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ChiTenshi (EUW)
: Maybe they will fix him then like Kassadin :P
fix? so he stays at a 45-49% winrate all the time?
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: the tale of a brave kassadin
Please do something about this, rito... I actually had a game like this recently and it was hell
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Serage (EUW)
: you love the rest of his kit? Why the hell do you want an rework? RIOT destroyes 80% of the champs with the rework. Just thank them, that they dont touch him!
I don't want a full rework... he already had that, I'm just asking if something, even something small was planned for him, but from the other comments I guess Riot actually already stated that they think he's fine. Guess I missed something He's a fun champion and even if Riot were to rework him again I don't think they'd take away his unique playstyle Not to mention, most of the Assassin reworks on the PBE right now are superstrong, even though some (looking at LeBlanc here) actually got their playstyle changed majorly.
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: I think the best thing would be to have the "target champions only" option toggleable, and not so you have to hold the button down. Would make kiting less frustrating.
The main problem I have with the "target champions only" option is that it doesn't work with attack move click. If you target champions only and attack move click on the ground you will still attack a minion if your cursor is nearer to the minion than the next champion.
: >how come all the hatecomments are from bronze tank players? I main mages.
[oh really? I don't see any here](http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=mecha+syrena)
: {{item:3036}} or {{item:3033}} and {{item:3153}} plus sticking with you suport will deal with most tanks. The problem is no one is building the first 2 items as they think they are bad :c but if yo uread the benefits they offer they are still as strong as ever you just need to no which one to build. {{item:3036}} gives a whopping bonus 45% armor pen which means that any armorpen you have in your runes and masteries just got a hell of a lot stronger it also offers you mre damage vs high health targets so vs tanks like {{champion:98}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:201}} etc who have no form of sustain its very handy. {{item:3033}} like its brother offers 45% bonus armor pen but also applies grieves wounds to the target which reduces any form of healing so tanks like {{champion:36}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:27}} who have some form of sustain. {{item:3153}}: Used to be 6% health on hit but riot had to nurf it down as it was becoming a to common rush item of every AD user and riot likes to have diversity in their game thats why it got nurfed down that and a good adc who can kite would rek with that item. But tbh as has been pointed out ADC are only a soft counter to tanks due to there range and kiting abilities plus the soft cc adcs have access to but as a tank main i will only go in on a ADC if i see them alone if they are with their support i tend to stay away unless my team is coming as nothing annoys a tank more then to be perma stunlocked byt the llikes of {{champion:89}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} etc etc while there carry runs backwards and kills us :) TL:DR learn to read item descriptions before you start to cry about the items being useless.
> TL:DR learn to read item descriptions before you start to cry about the items being useless. > {{item:3153}} : Used to be 6% health on hit If you read item descriptions you wouldn't be writing this... how come all the hatecomments come from bronze tank players?
: That would be pretty OP considering Kog Maw with 5AS would do 1k+ damage per second on a 4.5k HP tank with the item alone.
If the Kog'Maw gets to 5 AS he does that either way. Not to mention that it's still current health damage, so it gets less with each hit.
: Tank morgana?
ADC's don't need to hardcounter tanks, they just need to have a way to deal with them and the current options are pretty sub-par compared to the old Last Whisper and pre-nerf Blade of the ruined King. Both of those we're good against squishies aswell, tho, so they were nerfed in order to only be strong against tanks and now tanks are ridiculous for anyone to deal with unless specifically counterpicked with champions like Kog'Maw or Vayne. Again, how come all the hatecomments are from bronze tank players? Are you that salty about someone complaining about what is broken?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Except these win rates completely ignore one massive variable... the fact that kass is not a solo Q champion. He out right sucks in solo Q situations as the game escalates way too quickly... kass needs his 3rd item power spike plus his level 16 power spike before he can really look to fight, but solo Q doesn't allow for that as fights will start to happen around his first item spike... So he gets dragged into fights when he should be farming which tends to lose fights for his team as they rushed in prematurely. So these win rates are not representative of kass' power or how he fairs against champions not because he isn't doing his anti mage stuff right but because the game just out right ends or is more or less decided by the time he is ready to fight. This drags his win rates down considerably as he either gets carried to the point where he can win or they lose in what is more or less 4v5 fights. This is an issue with kass and not one that would be effected by increasing his magic resist per level as that's not gonna help someone who loses before he gets enough levels to make use of these stats... instead it's mainly due to his low base damages and mediocre scaling meaning he struggles to do his job as he is missing most of his burst for most of the game. So magic resist per level won't change these win rates as that's not where the issue lies... but if this did happen and he got these stats, then riot fixed his actual problem then you would be looking at us returning to the S3 days of 99% ban rate kass due to him shoving mages out of viability.
So, basically, you're saying that Kassadin is bad... I play quite a bit of Kassadin and know his issues and also how to circumvent them against most champions. Why I'm bringing up that Kassadin is missing scaling magic resist is because currently in my plat promos again I'm doing just as better against Zed than I'm doing against for example a Cassiopeia, an Ahri or a Syndra, although one of them is supposed to counter me and the other ones are supposed to be countered by me. The other ones just have damage patterns that Kassadin can't do anything about. The 15% damage reduction on his passive doesn't exist against Zed and feels just as nonexistant against a Syndra, Cassiopeia or an Ahri, where a single hit ability instantly means at least 50% of Kassadins whole HP gone. Sure, if you get hit by that ability you've made a mistake, but having every mistake that gets you CC'd for 1 second be that punishing is stupid. All those other mages are so hopelessly overbuffed in their cooldowns and base damages that Kassadin looks like a wet towel next to them if he doesn't already have 300+AP. Kassadin literally needs 100 AP more than those champions to be able to deal the same damage as them just because their base damages are so much higher. If Kassadin got higher base damages he'd also be better against champions that are supposed to be good against him, namely, physical damage dealers, If he got scaling magic resist he'd be better against the mages he struggles against, which are basically all mages that even have a slightly higher ability range than him and leave his effectiveness against his counterpicks completely untouched. If you say Kassadin is bad in terms of base damage, which I take as compared to other mages, then the best thing to do is to give him defenses that set the enemies base damages, who Kassadin is supposed to be good against, to about Kassadin's level.
: > "Antimage" - does that ring a bell? Anything? There is a difference between being an anti mage like kass is currently... And being a champion with assassins level burst and bruiser level survivability. Kass is already currently very hard to kill via magic damage due to his anti mage nature (as it should be, he is a counter pick), but combining the survivability of current kass with a massive buff to his resistances would render magic damage useless against him (it's fine allowing kass to have an advantage against mages due to his kit, but currently mages are still able to beat him but have to work harder at it... add even more resistance and kass becomes frustrating to play against as he completely shuts any damage output out from mages meaning any duel between them on equal footing isn't down to skill but down to kass being near unkillable). So adding magic resist to kass would punish mages way too hard. And not every passive needs to be relevant through the entirety of the game... there are plenty of champions who have to work to gain access to their passive like cass or syndra, or lose their passive late game like zil, or even don't have a passive in some games like the post mortem passives like koggie and sion... this isn't a thing kass is alone with. Think about it like this, kass' passive gives him all of his magic resist per level at level 1... So his passive advantage shrinks as everyone catches up but early game he gains a distinct advantage of having one of his stats at level 18 already (which is a big help to him as it means he has a safety net during his weak early game against the magic damage he will be facing, late game where he turns on and doesn't need this safety net anymore he loses a lot of the power of his passive.
Kassadins Winrates against popular mages: Lux: 42,2% Ahri: 41,73% Twisted Fate: 47.15% Orianna: 52.34% Annie: 47.16% Lissandra: 53.98% Anivia: 38,09% As you can see Kassadin performs rather badly overall against a group of champions that he is supposed to counter. He does rather well against champions who have to get up close and personal to deal damage but those are mostly assassins. I'd just say the numbers speak for themselves... still talking about kassadin being broken is ridiculous and still so many people do it
: > If the logic for the reason of Kassadin not having scaling magic resist was valid, Garen, Poppy and Wukong, who all get free resistances from their kits (specifically get magic resistance from their kits) should also not have scaling magic resistance. Very different... those ones give actual magic resist, which means that it's effected by the diminishing returns on resistances (the more you have the less it's worth, so late game these resistances mean a lot less)... kass' one isn't magic resist its just a straight up % damage reduction which is noticeable... 15% damage reduction is a large amount and way more that any scaling magic resist will give. It's also the fact that those 3 are actually tanks, they need to extra tankyness to be effective, kass is an assassin so he doesn't need the extra tankyness on top of the amount he gets from his passive (there is also the magic shield as well... giving him scaling magic resist would make late game kass extremely hard to kill as a mage). The yas one is also still valid... his weakness late game is still going to be burst, by giving him less magic resist means that you expose this weakness to magic damage allowing people an avenue to take a late game yas down (not to mention he really doesn't need a buff atm). > I know comparing completely different kits is stupid, but considering that the reasoning behind not giving magic resist to specific champions is their already inherent defensive ability in their kit comparing it to other kits with defensive abilities in their kits seems quite appropriate, so what I'm mostly on about is that Kassadin and Yasuo don't have scaling magic resist although other champions with similar defensive abilities, passives, passive free resistances or shields like Vi (passive), Fizz (trollpole), Fiora (passive heals and W untargetability), Poppy (passive, W passive), Garen (W passive)... This list can go on for a long time, because most melee champions have some sort of defensive mechanism and still have scaling magic resist, some of them even have comparable mobility to Kassadin or Yasuo, like Fiora or Fizz. Still different... like I said magic resist behaves differently to just damage reduction... And it's not so much the shield, that was a side point, it's yas' main weakness late game is his squishyness to magic allowing people to remove a large late game hyper carry if he misplays. > Kassadin doesn't have a passive compared to a different melee champion at level 18 with scaling magic resistance because the bonus scaling magic resistance is worth around 13% damage reduction, so basically every other melee champion gets a free Kassadin passive upon reaching level 18, which also slowly builds up. The only time when Kassadins passive comes in handy is in the earlygame and when Kassadin builds alot of magic resistance, because the 15% damage reduction is not being added multiplicatively, but additively, afaik. If that is not the case then Kassadin's passive is garbage post level 11, where the difference between 15% damage reduction and the damage reduction from scaling magic resist becomes negligible (we're talking about a ~10-20 damage difference on a 500 magic damage attack). But kass would have that 13% plus 15%... that's a free 27% magic mitigation... on top of his natural magic resist. This 15% is also not effected by magic pen (a sorc boot completely almost completely negates the scaling magic resist but doesn't touch kass's).
First of all... there are no diminishing returns on armor or magic resist. [Explanation](https://youtu.be/uCGExN1nJxM?t=1m34s) Kassadin's Passive COULD be better than magic resist if it stacked additively to the damage reduction from magic resist, which we don't even know if it does. > (there is also the magic shield as well... giving him scaling magic resist would make late game kass extremely hard to kill as a mage) "Antimage" - does that ring a bell? Anything? > The yas one is also still valid... his weakness late game is still going to be burst, by giving him less magic resist means that you expose this weakness to magic damage allowing people an avenue to take a late game yas down (not to mention he really doesn't need a buff atm). Granted, but that was not your original argument, which was not really proving the point that you wanted to emphasize on, this does alot better. > But kass would have that 13% plus 15%... that's a free 27% magic mitigation... on top of his natural magic resist. This 15% is also not effected by magic pen (a sorc boot completely almost completely negates the scaling magic resist but doesn't touch kass's). and then he would have an actual passive compared to any other melee champion. And only 15% of that magic mitigation would be free, 13% would be the magic resistance that everyone else also has... Or would you say that e.g. Maokai gets free 2 AD because Irelia has 2 base AD less than Maokai?
: Kass in fairness doesn't need it, his passive already gives him a kind of pseudo magic resist so giving him more magic resist on top of that would be pretty scary (he wouldn't take much damage at all). Yas is to give him a weakness, he becomes vulnerable to magic poke and burst due to his low magic resist allowing his common lane match ups to have an opportunity to push him around early... And he also has a passive shield and his wind wall to cover this weakness. Mao is mainly because he has his ult, which had a tiny cooldown until rather recently meaning that it was up for every fight... this gave him % damage reduction which like kass acts as a pseudo magic resist... now he has lost this power with his ult cooldown nerfs there is a chance riot might decide to give him some scaling magic resist, but that was the reason why he doesn't have it. So these champions not having scaling magic resist is justified (mostly, mao is still debatable).
None of these are valid points, though... Kassadin doesn't have a passive compared to a different melee champion at level 18 with scaling magic resistance because the bonus scaling magic resistance is worth around 13% damage reduction, so basically every other melee champion gets a free Kassadin passive upon reaching level 18, which also slowly builds up. The only time when Kassadins passive comes in handy is in the earlygame and when Kassadin builds alot of magic resistance, because the 15% damage reduction is not being added multiplicatively, but additively, afaik. If that is not the case then Kassadin's passive is garbage post level 11, where the difference between 15% damage reduction and the damage reduction from scaling magic resist becomes negligible (we're talking about a ~10-20 damage difference on a 500 magic damage attack). Your point for Yasuo is also not valid, because scaling magic resist gives stats for lategame, not earlygame... so he's just as easily bullyable as if he had scaling magic resist (even though he's not easily pushed around or is bullyable with his shield). That his shield and ridiculous windwall are the reasons for him not having scaling magic resist is exactly what I wrote myself... Mao is getting scaling magic res on the PBE right now and it will probably go to live without making him completely broken, so I guess the debatability is proven and Riot is fine with it. I know comparing completely different kits is stupid, but considering that the reasoning behind not giving magic resist to specific champions is their already inherent defensive ability in their kit comparing it to other kits with defensive abilities in their kits seems quite appropriate, so what I'm mostly on about is that Kassadin and Yasuo don't have scaling magic resist although other champions with similar defensive abilities, passives, passive free resistances or shields like Vi (passive), Fizz (trollpole), Fiora (passive heals and W untargetability), Poppy (passive, W passive), Garen (W passive)... This list can go on for a long time, because most melee champions have some sort of defensive mechanism and still have scaling magic resist, some of them even have comparable mobility to Kassadin or Yasuo, like Fiora or Fizz. If the logic for the reason of Kassadin not having scaling magic resist was valid, Garen, Poppy and Wukong, who all get free resistances from their kits (specifically get magic resistance from their kits) should also not have scaling magic resistance.
Rioter Comments
: I'm not gonna waste time about this matter anymore. I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it at all. Edit: I still build morellos quite frequently on midlaners. So I don't think it's a wise idea to buff those items again. It's still cost efficient, both morrelos and athenes.
heh... morello cost on PBE reduced by 100 EDIT: Morello cost -150, Athenes -100
: Uh, yea.. I did read your post and if you bring back the other items to a stronger state once more, it'll make those items overpowered. My point is, frost queens should be nerfed. Buffing other items wont be healthy for the state of the game. > If you actually read more than the title you would know that I mentioned exactly what you wrote... Not to mention that you actually wrote after my edit which specifically mentions this again -.- Why are you even implying I did not read everything? I made my statement on it and it won't change. Maybe if you would be a bit more open for reason WHY it is getting nerfed, you'd understand it.
wtf dude, Athene's is in a horrible state with champions that rely on it all having a winrate lower than 50% (see Ziggs, Syndra e.g.). Morello's has fallen out of favor aswell... reason given in the main post, if you had read it you would've known. If you had read the post you would also have known that I don't have anything against nerfing spooky ghosts, but nerfing all the items stats is ridiculous. EDIT: "it'll make those items overpowered." After several Archangels and Rod of Ages buffs you really think the only Items which remained untouched/nerfed will become problematic? What reasoning is behind this? Any example who could possibly be broken with a 30 MR 70 AP Athene's? Galio? Maybe if you were a bit more open to reason why the alternatives are crap which is why FQC even got popular in the first place (combined with broken spooky ghosts), you'd understand my concern...
JQKAndrei (EUW)
: At most 2% of my ranked games are with a friend, friend which is lower in rank than me. I play this game with strangers more than I do with friends and since I'm not paranoid about premades I do aknowledge that they're not toxic as you claim them to be and it is rather easy to communicate with them if you're not an asshole yourself. It's not that premades don't acknowledge their mistakes, no one ever does, be it premade or not. It is very rare for someone to say "shit, my bad sorry". And since you're one of those guys who have prejudices about premades, it is wasteful to continue this conversation as your opinion is clearly biased.
wow dude, you seem like the most ignorant person in here. Calling a bias because of your bias is bullshit. Fact is: I see tons of "mb" in ranked currently and more "fukin %%% y u no fuk follow " in normals, although normals are not meant to be for tryhards. Sure I'm biased. Even when I premade with friends we flame other guys in our ts. Every premade does it and some show it more than others. If you want to tell me you never had premades flame you I can surely call you a liar and definitely biased. And the difference between premade flame and soloqueue flame is that if one guy flames in soloqueue, then it's 1 guy flaming. If 1 premade starts flaming you all other premades enter the flametrain because they know you can't report them on your own and make a difference. These are not prejudices... I'm judging from personal experience since early season 3. This is no longer bias or prejudice. It is a legit opinion that is backed up by many people in the community. Larger groups of premades are more likely to flame because they are less likely to get punished by the low amount of reports they can receive from the non-premades. That's pure logic... If you don't get that I can't help you and have to leave you to being ignorant and fooling yourself. You're turning every valid argument into a strawman btw. Not a very good strategy to argue as it makes you seem really stupid.
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Godalor

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