Yes and definitely no, with "mage" masteries + runes alone and a single support item, champs like Sona / Lulu is more of a threat in laning than any enemy adc until they have 1-2 items (Depending on which adc you face). At the same time they keep their sustain because they also benefit from that entire setup to their support abilities, it's otherwise also known as double-dipping.., and it's the same a lot of bruisers n' tanks enjoy these days. Sure, if they don't go all out mage items they fall off compared to real mages, but lets not strawman this for the sake of suckin the milk that Riot spills 24/7.

> [{quoted}](name=Kerrig4ns,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=oQner2bF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-14T07:18:16.088+0000) > > There is a difference from a support champ and a mage champ used as support. **For support champs to do decent/high damage, they need to build full damage, which means they're not supporting at all, and even then, they usually only have 1 skill that actually does damage and they just became a secondary mid laner.** I agree on the tank/bruiser part though, because unlike the support role building damage, they do high damage while building tank items and just 1 damage item, so they don't lose their main role sacrificing it for damage like others do. A support champ like Sona / Lulu does ridiculous damage from lvl 1 - 6 with {{item:3303}}, which is on par with a regular midlane mage, and that's what I'm refering to in my previous comment. There's no reason why they should have the damage when they are classed as support champions, all it does is result in a torrent of problems when trying to balance items. _This isn't specific to the two examples given as you could name multiple other champions_ > [{quoted}](name=Sarchiapon,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=oQner2bF,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-04-14T08:06:35.202+0000) > > Simply put, a very good player would very well be able to bring a full mage in the support role and still completely stomp a noob who is playing {{champion:412}} because someone else told him it's the most OP support. The fact that some players stick to meta and labels is more a matter of trust in themselves and in their capabilities than anything else. And nothing RioT can do, barring to actually force people to play only meta (which will never happen), can prevent that. I agree and disagree since I've already highlighted one aspect of the problem above, same holds true to tanks, bruisers etc etc. No item "balancing" will ever correct the problem (or issue, w/e).

Personally I feel you are going about the problem like I imagine Riot are (Which solves nothing, just adds to the problem since that item will work on Juggernauts also). Right now the game have class labels, but the classes aren't true at all.., support champs with output like mages, tanks that are living walls while having the output of carries, bruisers that currently also pretend to be tanks while being able to 1v5 under the right circumstances. As with the game itself, it's a total mess where the intentions may be there. Doubling back to the classes, what's the point of support classes having mage output (The problem lies in their dmg ability scaling, not items)? If they want to solve this problem long term, they need to start persuing the whole class identity and seperate them, so it's more than just a pseudo label. _IF / when that would be accomplished by them, they could start tuning items._

It's how it works with their "divine" mmr matching, when you win "to much" you get grouped to lose, and it doesn't stop until their "AI" system feels you are "in the right place". It's what I'm undergoing right now as well, where people counter pick themselves or just plain shine how boosted they are while laning and 100% don't belong above bronze 2-3 at best.

Love how you get downvotes for telling the truth of this game. Silver / Gold / Plat 5 are all platforms of boosted players, something that's insanely great considering the lackluster criteria in mmr matching, but who can really blame those ape players (The boosters and boosties), because there's vanity items & $$$ to be had.., and as long as Riot could give a fck about these 2 glaring problems, creating posts about it is just a waste of time, on boards that are as meaninful as the matching itself.

{{item:3814}} has lost most of it's glory, {{item:3153}} is now pretty much mandatory on every adc (Jhin / MF may be the exceptions) because it's to strong with the %hp steal. As far as tank items go I have no input since I try to avoid playing tanks, but that's only to do with my current place on the ladder.

It's a very negative and derogatory comment to fire off. No champion counters another by default, because you don't know the players behind the champions (Unless you are premade with the person and have several games with him / her).

I play mainly adc and have (had) the same view on supports as you do on adc's (It's primarily those who don't buy the sight stone though), if they respond with the classical league of legends attitude showing their mental capacity is that of a child, I mute them and entirely ignore them.

Most players have experienced either a steady increase in ms, or spikes that cause freezes for up to 2-3 seconds only to watch the champ float to a given point you clicked. Riot acknowledged the problem in their last patch (Might have been the previous one, not sure), but they are also ignoring it for the time being (Their words, not mine).., why tohugh remains a mystery. No new champs or re-works is worth more, than having a lag free game!

There's been a constant issue with League since 7.2 (Think that's where it started for most anyway) with the occasional freeze followed by a massive ms spike (Champ stops moving and then floats to the point you clicked). There's been multiple threads about it and none of them afaik got any reaction at all (Leads me to believe it's a known issue for riot, but it's being burried for the time being, as they also stated in the last patch), this may very well just be the same problem escalating, which is why people claim it isn't VM related.

Your missing the point entirely, or maybe it's because you just aren't smarter! It's not about being on a side that's better or worse, it's about having 2 teams as close as equal to have exactly that.., a game on "paper" that's evenly matched instead of the current roll of the dice! The only thing your comment reflects is that you agree with my previous statement, but I guess that's the extend of your wits (or lack there off), which is why Riot must have success feeding masses with this sort of convoluted BS. I personally do find their excuse for match making so bad the game have been deleted now, it's simply to frustrating and infuriating to get grouped with players who are so terrible they can't understand the concept of warding (And would also probably fail at it even if Riot made them drop wards automatically). Maybe this is what people here don't understand due to the personal kda focused environment, that you have 4 other players.., and if they don't even understand the game at the most basic level, you may as well be paired with bots (That's equally fun and equally fair under your own admission). Riots form of mmr matching isn't a standard by any %%%%in measure within the industry, it is in fact a highly diluted form as any other platform inside of team based games, are based off one or more game related player statistics. But ye.., who cares right, after all it's only a game to waste time on.., and on that note I'll go do something equally interesting and watch some grass grow!

Only changes they should make is 1. to their %%%%%%ed match making, and 2. Tanks should be tanks, not impossible walls to bring down while also having the output of assassins in some cases. There's 0 downside to playing tanks these days, 1 dmg item and you can pretty much take a shower in turret hits while fending off 3+ enemies and shaving off 50%+ of their hp.

Wrong in every way! The easiest way of proving this point, is by looking at the amount of players who doesn't understand the power of warding (This includes support players running around without sight stone, or maybe they have sight stone but don't use it). This is a fundamental sign of a player not understand the game on the most basic level, furthermore this very same player can be lifted to mmr ratings where they don't belong at all (Something I see all the time in virtually all games I play). Another way of proving it is being on that side where players constantly get ganked because of their lack of understand the game on a fundamental level, they keep getting ganked because they don't understand 75g could result in not being ganked. As that one player on this side that does keep your near-lane area safe and capable of playing even or winning your lane, you are then expected to carry 4 other players, otherwise you aren't good enough to advance. This concept is as stupid as it can possibly get on so many levels, because under this example which counts for a good 30% of the games, you are effectively playing 1v9 (HELLO).

If you plan on playing this game and even remotely finding any fun or enjoyment in it.., accept that this is a consequence of having the worst possible match making! Players aren't matched based on statistics, which is what's required to even remotely determine a players skill and understand of the game, but they are matched on number of games won & lost (Both can happen without any sort of influence from a player), and converted to some %%%%ed up rating. This is part of what creates toxicity in the game, but it's also something Riot wont ever change.

What difference does it make if they spam Mastery emotes. Mastery is earned by playing a champion for X amount of games, you get it even by playing like trash..., not like watching 4 team mates open a game by speaking French, that shit is tilting AF.

Singed..., Singed.. Ohhh ye, that oversized minion that can lay down a poison trail and not much else of anything, ye.., Rip the most useless kit and champion since the launch of league. Like mmr matching, I suspect this creature was created in the haze of a crack party @ riot hq

Only time I "count" turret dmg for anything is before lvl 6 when 3 hits actually count for something, after 6 you can stand under towers for a full afternoon and barely notice their on you.

Ignoring the players who are just toxic by nature (%%%%%%ed by any standards). The underlying foundation of the game is designed so people eventually become frustrated, which leads to verbal abuse, on top of this there is 0 incentive in being Misses cotten candy towards other players. _Speaking for ranked play only_ - Yes I know, "it's just a game", implicitly also states a person doesn't care about the outcome, something that clashes with players who purely play ranked, for the sake of advancement and season rewards, something that's entirely disregarded also in the game design. There's so many conflicting things in and about League, that's it's no wonder it's considered the most toxic gaming environment ever (or why it's become that entity). All the rules or regulations in the world won't change anything when dealing with human beings, unless you give them a reason to follow them and a foundation to support it.

+1 I'm under no delusion as to Riot taking this seriously, considering they chose to ignore the issue entirely in their latest patch, and this being old news now.

> [{quoted}](name=Shélton,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=omUlgKMh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-06T16:07:48.476+0000) > > Im getting told I havent tho, even though ive watched like, 4 already, he keeps persisting it gets better and im still not interested A bit extreme maybe, but it serves to make a clear point.. Ask you friend if he needs to play around with dogshit one time or multiple times, before knowing whether he likes it or not (How I feel about Anima). Most people have a clear sense of what they like and dislike (Before even trying it), sure you can always new things out, but if you don't like them why repeat it?

Well I can provide you with the most glaringly obvious example as a question. When you have a game where 4 of your team mates **combined** manages to use a free trinket twice over a 40+min game, while the support also sports the sight stone, do you say; A) Oh they must just be having a bad game, or B) Sweet %%%%in jesus mmr matching is dogshit

> [{quoted}](name=Stahlvormund,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1xaKNAEu,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-05T20:52:12.557+0000) > > Disregarding the unknown MMRs, the op.gg difference is (2100 + 2050 + 1985) - (1423 + 1448) = 3264 > When I disregard the highest MMR estimate of the enemy team to equal the number of unknows of our team, thats still > (2050 + 1985) - (1423 + 1448) = 1164 > > Assuming op.gg is 50% off, that's a MMR difference of 582, which still translates into several divisions, roughly Gold to Diamond. > So even with a very generous room for mistakes on the side of op.gg, there is a huge discrepancy. > > Does that make it more acceptable? It doesn't matter which estimate you use, it's well known by anyone with average IQ that mmr matching, is at best and put into the most positive term, messed up (Both in normal and ranked). The fact that it uses no actual game statistics to pair players other than number of wins vs number of loses, tells you that any and all player skill is excluded. Put another way; Player X have been boosted to 1650 mmr by Player Y. Player X now goes solo at 1650 mmr, the system flags him at 1650 +/- mmr and uses that number to gather a team on the same mmr. While the enemy team have 5 players belonging to that mmr, your side now has Player X with a rating fitting that pool, but the skill level of a river scuttle (Happens in all divisions). Riot mantra for this problem: 33% this, 33% that and 33% something else ..|..

Wait til you get to Silver 1 and start playing with "low gold" boosted AF animals..........

I'm not entirely sure since it's been a while since I played Yi, but I think it only happens after Alpha strike, and you somehow happen to land inside the monsters hitbox.

I'll try it out the next time, although it sounds to luck-based to evaluate a team based on picks. I've had games with no tank-pure assassin type that was won without contest (mmr matching is so %%%%in sheit), I've also had a game just now with Tahm supp (me as Ashe), Ryze, Teemo n' Jax, but before we won bot lane.., Jax, Ryze and Teemo combined had died 12+ times (Min 11-12 I think it was). At no time did any of these 4 players stop to use a trinket or buy a pink, but spent the entire game chasing into unwarded areas, often solo vs 2+ enemies or straight up overextending.., at the end I think Teemo had something like 7/16, Ryze was 0/6 when he logged off, Tahm was 2/6 when he logged off, Jax managed a "respectable" 8/10 by piggyback ridding.. I mean, to me mmr matching is about as terrible as it can get, especially in league since it utilizes NONE of the actual game statistics that you can evaluate a player on. Right now it's just - Player X won = + imaginary rating - Player Y lost = - imaginary rating

Yea, the game in itself is fun, but it's the most toxic environment on the planet right after the tar sands due to the design behind it's matching n' game focus.

Under the current mmr dogshit matching, you don't need to scale it beyond 100 points, as the system intentionally craps all over you after a certain amount of wins. Promo's isn't the problem, it's the mmr matching which intentionally pairs you with leftovers from human evolution sooner or later. In my case it's usually easy promo's + 1-2 games after, followed by the extinction level event for 5+ games after (Worst one I've had was 2½ division before I got players with an iq above 25 on my side), went from 23p per win to 18 per win. Riot wonders why their environment keeps being as toxic as it is, despite it being no secret. Any form of artificial setback pisses people off no matter what "philosophy" is behind it, the grind in itself is enough.

It'll forever be a mystery to me, why some people get scammed, be it in games or irl.

> [{quoted}](name=MacDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=qhfUsmie,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-04-03T19:17:34.923+0000) > > How do you copy paste a log from a game exactly? Poor choice of wording, should have said 'copy pasted post-game lobby'.., but the essence is the same.

I doubt you'll find help on these boards worth anything, the game have been plagued with problems since 7.2, and by the looks of things, Riot is taking their classic approach and burying their head in the sand.

Your copy pasted log could virtually be just another day in league on EuW.

Long story short (EuW-wise). Mmr matching is utter trash (Gives 0 indication about a players skill), but players here believe in it so strongly, that they are where they are because of themselves. Anyone saying anything different have no clue, players carry games 110% solo doing 1v9 in 90%+ of their games. All kidding aside, this human scum attitude is a side-effect of a miserable match making (Ignoring the few who are full %%%%%% by default), but hey.. £$£$£

It's no side-effect, it's the system design acting as intended. After a win-spree, you get games you can't win under any scenario (Well, unless 2-3 enemies all log off), truthfully it wouldn't make any difference if you just parked on a tower and afk farmed, and let the towers fall uncontested in those games.

People prefer thinking they are gods when they win a game (The meme effect is strong in this community), then having balanced games. I guess it's more fun with a neverending cycle of wins and forced loses.

> [{quoted}](name=Stahlvormund,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=c5XPV5Id,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:54:58.603+0000) > > That was a 5 sphere level 2 ult + TLD + level 5 Q on a Syndra with sufficient items (2/7 but enough gold for good mid game items) on a squishy target with only MR from runes. > Buying {{item:3155}} against Syndra is no shame and cucks hers completely. Shh, don't bring logic into threads..

As much as I can't stand Riot's archaic account security with submitting a ticket to adress a pre-programmed "person", twice in two weeks = You are either selling it and trying to steal it back, sharing your information because you don't know no better, or have some form of keylogger from being on sites you don't know.

> [{quoted}](name=GZA The Genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=Lc9WQml4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-01T09:06:33.468+0000) > > This happens only on mac or have you tested it on PC that run windows? It happens on a stationary running Win-10 also, prior to patch 7.2 I would have 160-180 fps stable. Post 7.2 onwards my fps drops to as little as 49-120. Worst part is when it happens in a skirmish and your screen freezes for 2secs, but it still registers where you last clicked moving your champion there (Even if you clicked on an enemy in range and it shouldn't be moving).

> [{quoted}](name=Riot tmx,realm=EUW,application-id=slFBEUB8,discussion-id=Yj9HMmfv,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-31T13:08:19.548+0000) > > Hi Players, > > We're aware of the issue affecting Store and are currently working on the fixing the problem. There is different behavior between clients: when attempting to access the store on LCU players will get a black screen, while players on Air client -- certificate error. I will let you know once the issue is resolved. > > 3.25pm update: The issue has been resolved and Store is now fully accessible. Can you check on EuW store next? Keep getting error message when trying to purchase RP (Regardless of amount). Tried closing the store down, restarting the client etc.

> [{quoted}](name=Enjutsu,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=f94dUjul,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-30T12:42:16.694+0000) > > I just wonder what's your understanding on how it works. Exactly what others have already said, it's a flat number assigned each player based on their number of wins & loses, it has 0 value in determining a players skill.

> [{quoted}](name=Enjutsu,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=f94dUjul,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-03-30T12:12:38.912+0000) > > Do you know how it works? No, it's a real mystery how the number of wins and loses gets converted into a flat rating.., I mean, it's something only Mulder from X-files could solve (It's also a GREAT indicater of each players skill and understanding of the game concept). Had this conversation before, and it always end with strawmanning to try and make a case for the current mmr vs improving it with actual game-statistics (or quantity vs quality).

Inb4 someone comes along saying: 33% you decide, 33% you get carried, 33% you lose through no fault of your own. League mmr matching have and always will be utter dogshit, but people love the win spree followed by the forced losing spree.., apparently it's fun being having matched where you face teams, you swear couldn't beat riot beginner bots on their best days, followed by 1 "even" game followed by a forced losing spree equal to the number of games you just won. I can see how that promoted a great environment filled with enthusiastic and friendl.., oh wait, it doesnt.

Before 7.2 : 160+ fps After 7.2 : 60-120 (Also includes the utterly random fps freeze) Only solution I've tried that could account for this degraded fps issue, was revering back to an older graphics driver, but it did nothing.

I know you don't get it, and I'm not going to explain it either after the strawmaning attempt using troll arguments to try and support yourself, safe to say I got your point before.. Toxic environment with insane imbalance in match making > trying to improve it. _You probably don't get how those two are connected either....._

There's nothing random about adding these simple and basic game elements, they are also highly static in the manor I suggested.., but yes. This is definitely over since it's pointless debating with a person who need to strawman and use trolling as arguments, then again, it fits right into the league environment the current mmr matching fosters.

Minion and kills? Stop strawmaning or gtfo, I already stated kda could be manipulated. You can keep coming with these (pardon my french, but) stupid arguments that both violate the current set of rules, and can be detected by any reasonable system utilitzing it to add points onto a rating that's currently flat and broken! It's realitively easy making the system detect when a ward have been placed allowing for 3 + 1 at any given time, same for sweeping which deductions from the above allowing a new "+1". Average mechanics and good decision making? How are wards or objectives part of their mechanics, and if they do neither how the F... is that good decision making. I'm starting to understand why you reach for straws to argue with!

There's a difference between bad, average and good game yes, but any player who understands the basic concepts of the game, don't use their trinket 1-2 times in a bad game (Just like they wouldn't stop trying for objectives after 1-2 hits), only players who fail to understand the concept of it would do that. Nothing is stopping you from spamming wards at the fountain, except you having already lost the game and deciding, you'd rather waste what time is left by spamming wards instead of defending (That's also knows as assisting enemy team subject to a valid report), and the system being designed in such a way as to prevent manipulation, which is rather easy knowing how wards works.

It's the 2 most basic concepts in the game in order to maximize your potential to win, it's also the 2 easiest to build a match making around. Kda can be manipulated by a terrible player simply by walking around sniping kills, but otherwise being of 0 value to his team.

That would be the dream scenario, but I also know that's way above anything they can accomplish. A simple thing like ward up-time / count applied to the flat rating people get now, would be a monumental improvement in matching. Quite sick of watching players on one side maybe using a free trinket once in a 50min game, or supports with sight stone yet dropping at most 2-3 wards over 50min. Objectives taken (That would include assists on objectives so it's not only 1 person getting that rating boost) could also be applied.

Yea, it's quality coding knowing that actual game statistic isn't being used to match people, that's certainly reliability for you.