Zanador (EUNE)
: I'm not sure i understand you correctly, but i'll start by mentioning that there are two new item coming which will benefit tanky AD champions like juggernauts and bruisers. One will give armor+resist and a passive which will give bonus AD based on max HP and the other will give damage reduction based on bonus AD. When these items arrive teams built up entirely by tanks+bruisers+fighters with an occasional sustain mage like Vlad, Ekko or Swain will no longer lack the damage to take down a similarly built enemy team. So unless Riot tweaks the balance, we will now drift into a direction where champions who are not naturally tanky will not be viable. But no, meta change does not always result in a wave of people picking tanks. Tanks are picked more often if the overall damage output of the game is increased. Because if everyone deals more damage then it is better to pick someone who can survive it a little bit more. Skill requirement has very little to do with it either. If you want a meta that favors less defensive champions, then you have to lower the overall damage of champions, so even squishies can survive enough to be useful.
I belive looking at the tank dominance problem only through the lenses of stats is not correct. Specially if you only look at the overall damage. If the overall damage is lowered tanks become unkillable. I play a lot of shen and I know what it’s like to duel 2/3 people that literally lack the damage to go through my shields. Actually high sustained damage with good sustain (cassio, ADCs, ww jax ETC) are the way to go if you want to kill a tank. You have to consider both the damage and the mitigation capabilities to understand why tanks are or not strong. Second: Tanks are always picked because they are usefull. They provide engage, disengage, peeling, CC, protect you against poke, can face check ETC. If a team with no tanky members gets in range with a team with tanks (and they are competent) then they get stomped. Tanks dictate what happens i think you are right in the skill LV. I didn’t mean that. I meant that they are reliable (don’t need gold, hard to f*** up, can survive if they get in a difficult situation...) As for the new items: first I belive they are being posponed and revaluated (thank f***ing god). And second; you are absolutely right. We will see nothing but tanky rengars, yasuo, kha’zix, mundo ETC. Champs not meant to survive or to deal too much but that can now survive and deal damage. This has happened docens of times eith many champions (rengar, fizz, ekko etc). Why? Because is better an safer to go tanky than to build damage. But until they ship, I belive assasins will do good, because they can now actually kill ADCs and I do not belive for a second that we will stop seing ADCs.
Zanador (EUNE)
: I said it all half a year ago and i wasn't the only one at all. Back in January when i saw [this video by Riot]( i knew where we were headed. 20th of January Riot officially said that they wanted to create a situation where teams didn't have to pick a Marksman champion, apparently not understanding that the scaling, gold farming and power level of Marksmen is one of the core elements that determine the pace of the game. It has been since season 1 and a bit before that. Now in 8.12 it was apparently time for the nerfhammer to hit the heal+shield supports too, so on basically on the tank and initiator supports remain. And without ADCs and squishy supports, now i question the viability of any assassin champion which isn't good against tanks or juggernauts, since we are pretty much left with only 4 classes now: Tanks, Juggernauts, Fighters and sustain mages. Not coincidentally these were the ones which received new and stronger keystone runes too. Conqueror pretty much took over top lane instantly and now Hail of Blades have been buffed considerably too, a rune that is pretty much guaranteed to win early game AA trades. I play lots of champions, so it's not about my main becoming unavailable to me. My problem comes from an unprecedentedly limiting balance situation and the fact that all of this was foreseeable, we told Riot that this would happen, because the mistakes they made were all ones they themselves recognised long ago but apparently forgot.
What do you think about this logic?: without ADCs being able to 1v1 assasins from 2-2,5 items forwards, Assasins will be more usefull at killing the ADCs trying to scale and will feast on new APC that will pop up trying to compensate the lack of dmg the team comps will have. Whenever there is a meta change people ALLWAYS start playing tanks, bruissers and so on since they are the safest and less skill dependant. Then the knew meta is stablished, and after the nerfs and buffs come through we again go to tanks because the are usefull, not gold reliant ETC.
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VexLuna (EUW)
: Discussion on potential changes to Shen
I have been thinking about this lately. The main problem shen has is that he has basically all of his dmg in his Q. So once you max that you are pretty much just getting lower cool-downs. So he is either extreamely strong at lv 9 or he is just useless at lv 18 (tip, he is ok at lv 9 and a f****ing joke at lv 18). They tried to compensate for this giving him max health % dmg and that wierd bonus dmg on hit on his Q. But it is just not enough. His AD and AAS growth does not compensate for the health, armor and magic resist his oponents get. And if they get any tanky items he can simply be ignored. He also has other problems, like being a split pusher who can’t split push. Being a duelist who can’t duel, being a tank who can’t engage/make a good front-line/CC anyone. He in fact can do all of the above, he is just terrible at all of them. Another problem is that he is the single most gold dependent tank in the game, and he doesn’t even scale that well. He is designed to be a late game “super tank” who is almost unkillable with his no-CD passive but in reallity late game ADCs (which btw there is at least one every game) are so strong that his passive is usually no more than a minor inconvenience since he doesn’t really get the chance to proc it that many times before he is dead or CC’ed to death (another problem, most CC vulnerable tank in game) I propose the following. I know that some are a bad idea and will lead to more problems that the ones they fix. But this is just brainstorming . -AD scaling on his Q: already mentioned here -make his Q true dmg: reduce the total % but make it true dmg. That way the initial objective of having his Q ,and shen in genera, always be a threat will be achived and so will his “anti-tank” role. Easier to balence too in my modest (probably naive and ill informed too) opinion. -transform it into physical dmg, make it a flat amount (proportionally higher ass well since armor is more prodominant both in base stats and in items) and have it scale with total AD. That way you get your early spikes, and you fall a bit late game but you still have dmg. This will also mean it scales with AD. He will become the tanky, low key juggernaut he is designed to be. -increase his per level AD or AAS: to help his late game. This approach was kind of used by riot when they increased his armor and health growth, reasoning that staying alive was another way of winning the trade. More original than giving him dmg. It also helped him in things like dives and teamfights -I could go on, but i will end with the easiest solution: ramp up his Q dmg. Like seriously if you fear shen will become a lane bully again (I see nothing particularly wrong with that but o well) just increase his late game dmg. Like i was proposing earlier with his AD growth. And not like a little bit, the guy needs SO much more dmg to be usefull late game, and if you simply increase his % magic dmg you avoid all the problems AD buffs comes with, like more reliable consistent dmg, faster turret destruction, proportionally higher threat to low heath targets, more static game-play with less highs and lows and fewer and less relevant “windows of opportunity” for both him and his Enemies ETC. Finally, and this is a drastic measure, and I really hope it doesn’t come to this, but eliminating/reworking his ultimate is something that can not be dismissed. It’s the reason why they can’t just buff him. Because that dammed thing is so usefull in competitive play and coordinated teams that he just becomes a top tier pick as soon as he is just barely playable. Seriously they don’t want him to split, or duel, or engage... they just want him to ult someone so they can force a fight with numerical superiority while the rest of the game he just sits in lane, his global pressence enough to deter any enemies from trying to fight his teammates. Sadly it is the single most difficult, high risk, uncertain reward, easy to counter, longest, cool down ability in the game. Only pro players can safely use it.
Doomley (EUW)
: When they talked about extended burst time, they basically said that 0,25 - 0,5 second delay can be enough so people have time to react and not instant burst that zed and talon have.
i did read that, but also recall reading somewhere in the rengar post that his new burst duration was around 1-2 seconds, IDK riot has done a good job with reworks, but assasins are hard to balance
Father Tios (EUNE)
: There's a difference between someone like nocture and someone like zed. Nocturne actually needs to stick to its target without massive explosive instant damage. Zed in comparison just goes in, 0.1s -> ad can't do jack squat -> ad dies, zed gets out unharmed. Much skill/strategy needed. Fighters like Noc are currently just fine and that's how the assassin side should be as well - an even playing field for both the adc and the guy trying to kill the adc, where superior tactics/mechanics(preferably tactics) come on top.
nocturne was just an example, don´t take it to serusly. but it does srve me as an example, nocturne ha tools to stick to the target, and you usually never go full damage, is this the future of all assasins? to become off-tanks sticky brawlers?
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