Shamose (EUW)
: Zero
I said... > How many LP you lost during the last few weeks because of LoL client doing crazy things like (...) If you haven't had any issue with the client of course you lost zero points.
Rioter Comments
Cypherous (EUW)
: > Obviously the responsible is RIOT and more specifically this client that during the last few months has been totally unreliable. No its not obvious to people who understand how the internet works, its only obvious to people who have no idea how a packet switched network functions > Don't forget that 1 or 2 patches ago many people had to turn off the antivirus in order to get into games. Yeah and that wasn't riots fault that was the fault of the AV packages incorrectly blocking the game, those AV packages resolved that issue not riot, but you no doubt blame riot for that too :P > Loss prevented? Nope. Leave buster? Yes. People lost promos, LP and have been punished for no reason. What is the damn purpose of loss prevention that NEVER works? Loss prevention is for ACTUAL server issues, it works fine for those, as i've stated, this is not a server issue, riot has no control over connectivity issues that exist outside of their network and they don't enable loss prevention for things they can't resolve that don't affect large portions of the community, and when i say large i mean large So yeah i could quite easily prove to you that its not riots fault but i get the feeling you would still blame riot anyway so i'm not going to bother
This is a game that we play to have fun when finished doing our stuff (job, school or whatever you do). We don't have to read books in order to acquire the right to complain about something that doesn't work in this game. I've been a sys admin and I'm a developer from more than 10 years but I refuse to spend my time debugging the game I happen to play. That's not my job. On the other hand, according to your vision everyone should learn TCP/IP protocol, datagrams and routing otherwise they're not allowed to report an issue. > [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=GIjh5qbt,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T11:52:01.114+0000) > > If it were a server issue it would be hundreds of thousands, go google how the internet works and educate yourself so you don't make dumb posts like this again :P Gratuitous, hurtful and unnecessary. No one forces you to answer. If you have such a negative opinion of others then skip threads like this one. Playing the arrogant doesn't help anyone. Lastly I want to remind you that there are millions of professions (chef, driver, accountant, manager...). You can't pretend that such people must learn anything about how the internet works just to complain about League of Legend. Similarly even though I have the skill to understand this software, I still refuse waste my time. It's RIOT's duty not mine.
Cypherous (EUW)
: Do you understand how tiny 1000's of players even is? If it were a server issue it would be hundreds of thousands, go google how the internet works and educate yourself so you don't make dumb posts like this again :P
We're a group of 5 premades. 4 of us can't play for the same exact reason. The only guy that is able to connect is experiencing very often /ff at minute 3 because of missing players stuck at Reconnect. Don't forget that 1 or 2 patches ago many people had to turn off the antivirus in order to get into games. Loss prevented? Nope. Leave buster? Yes. People lost promos, LP and have been punished for no reason. What is the damn purpose of loss prevention that **NEVER** works? Obviously the responsible is RIOT and more specifically this client that during the last few months has been totally unreliable. > [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=GIjh5qbt,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T11:52:01.114+0000) go google how the internet works and educate yourself so you don't make dumb posts like this again :P {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Rioter Comments
: i mean .. if a zilean slows you 99% for 5 seconds or 99% for 2.5 (50% tenacity) would make a huge difference for champions that want to deal damage or champions who dont want to take damage .. in your case you play shen support as a fulltank meaning you dont realy do damage and half the time you want to defend your adc or engage the enemys .. both of these actions dont realy care for wether you are cced or not .. so i can understand why you dont realy see a difference in 0 or 61% .. however in my opinion tenacity is still a good stat.. especialy if you use some melee champion into a high cc enemy team ..
Umh... it makes sense. Not a great stat of a tanky support that no1 usually focus.
Rioter Comments
: Shen isn’t a champion who wins lane, he’s not the only champion who is like that either. Remember his power lies entirely in his ability to turn up in other lanes, that alone hurts his 1v1 potential as he ain’t in lane. Not every champion needs to win every lane, but that doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing, so long as he has the ability to influence the game outside of the lane, which in pro play he does. He can also go to support to dodge these match ups, and he has some good match ups down there vs melee supports or adcs. Also statistically {{champion:24}} and {{champion:114}} he counters, winning 63% and 59% of the time respectively. > We talked a lot about R. Like it or not Shen has way more problems than his R, lack of items, runes and stats. He really deserves a buff. Don't like buffing R? Okay but something must be changed. Just looking at statistics this champion is a big looser since S5. Lack of items isn’t true, plenty of tank items without mana, plenty of tanks without mana. You’re only locked out of 4 tanks items, that still gives 6 armour choices, 5 magic resist choices, and 10 health options... there’s no lack of items. Runes is also incorrect... same amount as any other tank, being aftershock and grasp... hail of blades and conquerer are also potential choices as well... so that’s more than the other tanks. And besides aftershock is broken at the moment, Shen is going to be more than happy he can use it better than most tanks. And stats is only in health, don’t forget he has a spammable health based shield so once you factor that in his effective health is higher than other tanks... the danger of letting him have a normal tank health pool is that it can very easily leave him much more tanky than any other option thus forcing other tanks out of the meta. And your forgetting about the power budget... it’s been all about the R because that’s where the majority of his budget is going, for him to get meaningful buffs to the rest of his kit he’d have to loose a lot of power on his ult, at which point you risk alienating shen fans more. Remember he’s not a champion for you, and pros are still using him often and effectively. > Janna, the most reliable support last season, has been nerfed by 5 movement speed. Your forgetting the nerf where her shield decays.... and the indirect nerfs to all of her items. Pretty severe nerfs and she’s no longer in th meta for a reason > Camille at some point had 74% win rate in proplay. No nerfs. Shen that is garbage since S5 received bigger nerfs (direct and indirect). Firstly shen currently has a 70% win rate in the LCK, he’s also got a higher play rate than Camille this split. Secondly your forgetting the massive nerf Camille just took where she outright lost the ability to jungle (E no longer stuns monsters) which outright killed her in the meta. And top Camille had already been killed. > Is it fair? Where's the logic? There’s plenty of logic when you actually pay attention to changes and not twist facts for your own benefit. In fact it’s not fair for Camille mains, riot killed her top then when they moved to the jungle that they didn’t like that and killed her off completely, but when shen moved to the support and had been outperforming Camille riot barely touch him. See how easily it is to turn this against him... if you’re gonna bring up facts make sure you have the whole picture. > I confirm you that I hate playing Shen since S5 but I'll never play other champs. Then what’s the point of playing, you’re not gonna get anything for forcing yourself to play a champion you hate... he’s not the champion for you, you don’t fit his play style, faster you figure that out and move to a different champion or stop playing league the happier you are gonna be...
> Lack of items isn’t true, plenty of tank items without mana, plenty of tanks without mana. You’re only locked out of 4 tanks items, that still gives 6 armour choices, 5 magic resist choices, and 10 health options... there’s no lack of items. I can't buy the following items. {{item:3075}} {{item:3512}} {{item:3190}} The only stat that gives Shen scalings is HP for passive and E. Considering that such scaling is very bland, I'm forced to invest all my gold in buying items that increase my HP. As for Solari its shield scales with HP bar therefore this is even more true. Don't forget that at level 18 Shen has 1985 HP right below... Nidalee... itsn't it funny? A full tank with less HP than Nidale, Corki, Yasuo, Jinx, Twitch, Varus, Cassio, Vel'Koz, Annie, Zed, Sivir, Kai'Sa, Tristana, Miss Fortune, Kassadin... {{item:3025}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3800}} Mana and/or mana regen and/or no HP. Tons of wasted gold. {{item:3109}} Isn't effective since as a Shen you should try to split and stay alone preparing for R. {{item:3083}} This is perfect on Shen but sadly considering your very low base HP you need at least 2 or 3 items before you can take it and trigger its passive you need so bad for splitting and team fights. So here comes the usual boring and limited selection of items. 7 items to fill 6 slots. {{item:3065}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3143}} ... if support {{item:3401}}... when it's already too late {{item:3083}} > Runes is also incorrect... same amount as any other tank, being aftershock and grasp... hail of blades and conquerer are also potential choices as well... so that’s more than the other tanks. Grasp against Yorick, Cho, Trynda, Gnar, Teemo, Nasus, Fiora, Heim, Trundle, Swain, Riven, Kled, Singed, Vald, Urgot, Poppy, Garen, Panth, Olaf, Renekton... do you think that I am Darius? I am Shen, I can't stand a trade that last for more than 4 seconds to proc Grasp. It is already difficult to farm under turret due the lack of damage and you want me to trade? They will deal me at least twice the amount of damage I can inflict. Don't forget that I'm a late-game champ with the most horrible laning phase. I can just hug my turret and play passive. Grasp isn't for me. > And besides aftershock is broken at the moment, Shen is going to be more than happy he can use it better than most tanks. That's the funny thing with Shen. I have the same amount of armor than Draven at level 18 therefore Aftershock scales way better for other champions. Conclusion? Aftershock will be nerfed because champs like Poppy can abuse it and guess who is gonna suffer another indirect nerf? Shen! That's the story of my life maining this stupid ninja. Something that works just okay on me works OP for others then comes RIOT and nerf this, nerf that... what am I supposed to do now? Who cares about Shen... > Your forgetting the nerf where her shield decays.... and the indirect nerfs to all of her items. Pretty severe nerfs and she’s no longer in th meta for a reason Janna has been in meta for more than one year. I've never been in meta not even for a single day! And anyway Janna is still perfectly viable meanwhile I'm not viable not even in my own role and lane since S5! > Firstly shen currently has a 70% win rate in the LCK, he’s also got a higher play rate than Camille this split. The same Shen in soloQ has a solid 48 to 46% or less win rate since S5. Here is the other great thing I "love" about Shen. Pro-players pick him making a perfect use of the ultimate because they're five premades then 99% of other players have to accept unnecessary nerfs. > Secondly your forgetting the massive nerf Camille just took where she outright lost the ability to jungle (E no longer stuns monsters) which outright killed her in the meta. And top Camille had already been killed. Still 50-51% win rate... last time I saw 50% win rate on Shen was season 4. > if you’re gonna bring up facts make sure you have the whole picture. I'm tired of this damned "**YOU HAVE TO SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE**" thing. The whole picture I see is that Shen sucked in previous patch, sucks now and will suck next patch. Now repeat this process for 5 years and tadaaaa! Here is the "WHOLE PICTURE". Picking Yasuo, Jax, Camille, Ekko... will always be fun and rewarning meanwhile picking Shen will deliver you the same depressing experience.
: > I'm blaming about the shield not for the shield itself but for the fact that such a weak shield that lasts 1-2 autos doesn't allow me to complete the teleport part of my ultimate because my target dies. I can even accept to lose 20% of my HP bar as soon as I press R or a "self-ignite" effect just for being able to finally move to my ally! That's the problem. In early game R is a total failure since my target dies very easily. Even when I manage to teleport most of the times nothing good happens that is more gold-efficient than losing top turret and waves of CS. In mid game it goes slightly better but if your team is losing your presence is an handicap. Perhaps because you are being reactive not proactive. Have a look at how pro players use shen, particularly Griffin their support player lehends is very well known for his shen. Instead of using it on an ally who is dying and therefore dies before you get there you use it on a healthy ally who is about to go in. The one griffin love doing is using nocturn, ult an ulting nocturn and it’s suddenly 2 players being delivered directly onto an enemy. Another famous one is any invisibility champion, as your ult won’t be seen until you appear directly behind them? Keep an eye on you jungler and ult as he goes in, or put it on your engage champions to express way yourself in. Like I said it’s not meant to be used as a shield and at this point riot should just remove the shield as it’s a bit of a trap... you don’t use the ult to protect an ally, you use it on an ally as they go in (while healthy) so that their ganks or engages instantly have a numbers advantage... you just being there with a taunt can turn a difficult gank into a gurenteed one. > At least finally I would be able to complete my channeling. Right now Shen kit is so depressing that I could even accept Shen to commit suicide 10s after casting the ultimate. I'm tired of splitting (well... Let's just say being a siege minion) waiting for the right moment to engage, to use half of my brain just watching map and accept an oppressive laning phase for such unrewarding outcomes. Then don’t play shen... he’s obviously not the right champion for you, considering you seem to hate everything he is meant to do.
Look at these matchups and please answer to few questions. Be honest. {{champion:98}} vs {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:78}} * In what matchup Shen has an advantage? * What champions will be outfarmed or zoned by Shen? * Who will lose 1st turret to Shen? * Who will be forced to play laning phase safe and passivelly? * Who scares you most? * Who is the most reliable? * This was for top lane, his main role. As for support, name me one support that is worse then Shen In my opinion these are the only balanced matchups. {{champion:98}} vs {{champion:111}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:106}} We talked a lot about R. Like it or not Shen has way more problems than his R, lack of items, runes and stats. He really deserves a buff. Don't like buffing R? Okay but something must be changed. Just looking at statistics this champion is a big looser since S5. Janna, the most reliable support last season, has been nerfed by 5 movement speed. Camille at some point had 74% win rate in proplay. No nerfs. Shen that is garbage since S5 received bigger nerfs (direct and indirect). Is it fair? Where's the logic? > Then don’t play shen... he’s obviously not the right champion for you, considering you seem to hate everything he is meant to do. I confirm you that I hate playing Shen since S5 but I'll never play other champs.
: > Keystone mastery not found. Grasp, you infidel. I don't agree with half the things you've put here but whatever, I do agree with the essence of the post just not in the light you put it, I just want the last Q nerf to be reverted and he's viable to me all day any day.
I play sup so aftershock is the best I can get. When I was playing him top grasp was a nightmare to proc... I mean I can't stand 4 seconds of trades against in-meta champions like Yorick that can melt me over and over again.
: > In the universe of Taric 5 players become invulnerable for 2.5 seconds. In the same universe Kindred can do the same. What about Lulu that transforms an ally in a raid boss instantly? Soraka healing tons of HP safely from distance. Then we have Tryndamere that is the personification of invulnerability. Same story or Kayle. Taric ult is heavily delayed, you can burst an enemy before the invulnerability hits Kindred ult is only a small area around kindred and also benefits enemies as well Lulu only gives health so no where near invunerable, it’s that combined with the rest of her kit which makes people hard to kill. Trynd is in line for a VGU, he is unhealthy Kayle just got a VGU where her ult took a severe hit (can’t fight back while using it), also more heavily mana gated and range gated. There’s none of these counter plays for shen, anywhere on the map if you tried to do anything shen can ult to ruin the fight, thats unfair and would make shen become a massive issue, you’d be looking at him getting gutted completely for it. > What's the immediate effect of Shen R? What’s the immediate effect of teleport... because that’s what shen has. Teleport is a near must have for top laners, during the laning phase it allows you to turn any engagement into a numbers advantage for you, even if they disengage they’ve used their long cooldowns to do so and if it was their own gank or engagement then they’ve wasted their time and created an advantage for your laner. Later on in the game you can split push and still turn up to team fights allowing you to turn fights into 4v5s easily. That’s the power of shen ult... it’s not a shield, hell like I said he could prob even loose the shield entirely, it’s the fact that he gets a free teleport... a summoner which is easily the second strongest in the game only losing to flash. The ability to be omnipresent Is a massive advantage and proper utilisation of teleport separates ok top laners from great top laners... being able to have a teleport on his ult on top of your own teleport is huge. And yeah you might loose stuff, again exact same risk as teleport yet that’s still mandatory isn’t it... exact same strenghs and weaknesses. But you’ve now got a numbers advantage on the other side of the map so you can push another tower or take a dragon or rift herald. The enemy laner will either have to trade objectives or follow you with a teleport. Your focusing way too much on the shield, that’s not the strong part of the ult... it’s the teleport... and being good at using that has always been a hallmark of a good top laner. > Making the target of your R invulnerable would provide more entertaining team fights since your target, allies and enemies need to react in seconds. Right now most of the times no one is really scared of Shen coming. And even if you're scared just focus Shen target to pulverise that 175 shield in 1-2 autos in less than 1 second while I'm still channeling. Actually it’d create a less entertaining teamfight... not only does shen create a numbers advantage but he can make someone invulnerable then nobody is going to fight... why would anyone engage onto a target when that target will be made invulnerable and you will loose the fight... the game would stagnate and become boring. That’s exactly why shen got nerfed in pro play from just the teleport aspect, adding a kayle ult onto that would make it stagnante solo Q as well as pro play. > You should make the same assumptions for Shen blade. Laning against Zed requires you to keep track of his shadows. Same goes for Heim, Azir, Maokai (...) you constantly need to invest a ward in a bush before face-checking it otherwise you're dead or punished. I don't get how Shen blade should work differently considering its clunky mechanics, the risks it takes repositioning it, the not so awesome damage it provides. Actually I find more useful the very weak slow effect it provides. But shen doesn’t hide his in brushes, he hides his out of the screen, can’t ward against it when it’s past his 1st tower can you. And it works differently because it outright works diffierently... it’s all about dragging the ability to you, where as the others place them down and leave them... the only one who works somewhat similar is azir with his E but no azir player ever hides his soldiers. Why should other abilities have the same indicator as shen sword when they don’t even remotely work in the same way.
> That’s the power of shen ult... it’s not a shield I'm blaming about the shield not for the shield itself but for the fact that such a weak shield that lasts 1-2 autos doesn't allow me to complete the teleport part of my ultimate because my target dies. I can even accept to lose 20% of my HP bar as soon as I press R or a "self-ignite" effect just for being able to finally move to my ally! That's the problem. In early game R is a total failure since my target dies very easily. Even when I manage to teleport most of the times nothing good happens that is more gold-efficient than losing top turret and waves of CS. In mid game it goes slightly better but if your team is losing your presence is an handicap. > Actually it’d create a less entertaining teamfight... not only does shen create a numbers advantage but he can make someone invulnerable then nobody is going to fight... At least finally I would be able to complete my channeling. Right now Shen kit is so depressing that I could even accept Shen to commit suicide 10s after casting the ultimate. I'm tired of splitting (well... Let's just say being a siege minion) waiting for the right moment to engage, to use half of my brain just watching map and accept an oppressive laning phase for such unrewarding outcomes.
: I’ve already explained this the last time you where here (things haven’t changed, your getting the same answer). But a few new things > R should make its target invulnerable during channeling. This will provide a more entertaining outcome for both teams In what universe does invulnerability provide a more entertaining outcome for the enemies... invulnerablility is not healthy and especially not on a manaless global ult... seriously at least with kayle you’ve got mana and range gating it with Shen you’ve got no counterplay. You’ve also got a problem that his ultimate is already too powerful... I don’t think I explained power budgets last time so here we go, every tool in the game has a cost, every champion has a budget and adding a tool removes from the budget. No champion gets to go over budget. Shen’s Ult eats up the entirety of his budget from the global teleport itself, that’s why the shield is weak and why the rest of his kit ain’t that strong, cause the budget is all in the teleport... he’ll shen could loose the shield entirely and most of the budget would still be going into the ult So basically you’d have to remove the teleport (maybe even the global range as well) to make the ult stronger... at that point he ain’t shen. > Remove that damned arrow that always point to our blade! If you don't want then I want the same arrow to spot Azir soldiers, Maokai plants and Heimer turrets hiding in bushes. Deal? I accept both scenarios Those things don’t correlate at all. Shen’s sword is only useful as it travels to shen hitting people as it goes, that’s why it’s got an arrow so that there’s clarity on the skillshot. The others you mentioned don’t have any mechanic which punishes you from going in between them and their champion... you also forget that shen has a massive leash range on his sword he can have it way off screen, azir and Heimerdinger don’t have that and maokai tends to leave saplings and leave so an arrow on him won’t help at all. So not only is it clarity for shen, it becomes needless clutter on the other champions... nobody cares about whether azir’s soldiers are in a bush and it’s easy enough to keep track of them (they are actively hitting you), and if Heimerdinger is nearby you’ve gotta assume he’s got 3 turrets somewhere... none of them can hide their stuff in FoW then make them fling towards you giving him an advantage.
> In what universe does invulnerability provide a more entertaining outcome for the enemies... invulnerablility is not healthy and especially not on a manaless global ult... seriously at least with kayle you’ve got mana and range gating it with Shen you’ve got no counterplay. In the universe of Taric 5 players become invulnerable for 2.5 seconds. In the same universe Kindred can do the same. What about Lulu that transforms an ally in a raid boss instantly? Soraka healing tons of HP safely from distance. Then we have Tryndamere that is the personification of invulnerability. Same story or Kayle. Don't get me wrong. I'm fine with such things even though we can all agree on the fact that such mechanics are frustrating or even unhealty in some cases. I'm just questioning why asking the same for Shen would be unhealty. Taric and all the above champions can R and immediately see an outcome. That's the point of having an ultimate. It must give you a clear advantage and scare enemies. What's the immediate effect of Shen R? * When top you probably lost turret and 30 CS. When sup you left your ADC alone for 2 minutes * 30% of times your ally dies before you can complete the channeling * 30% of times your ally flashes away or doesn't let you to your stuff * Delayed effect because you need 3 seconds of channeling * When successful enemies can still make us of flash, jumps, plants, CC, stuns and millions of other things to disegnage * Your R can be interrupted * The shield it provides is ridiculous * You can be attacked and killed while channeling * You can't stop it or use W to defend yourself while rooted on the ground Where's the clear advantage of using this ultimate? It has so many cons and downsides that I'm starting to question if it brings more harm than good. Yes, sometimes it goes very well but its use is as risky as an assassing going all in. A tanky late game and team-based champion shouldn't have such an hard life. He's already punished a lot in laning phase where he can only play passive and hope for winning other lanes. If something goes wrong your are punished. Draw? Still punished. Win? Maybe your allies are rewarded with a kill but you need to go back in lane with -30 CS and turret down to a Jax, Tryndamere, Yorick, Irelia, Garen... get ready for that! Making the target of your R invulnerable would provide more entertaining team fights since your target, allies and enemies need to react in seconds. Right now most of the times no one is really scared of Shen coming. And even if you're scared just focus Shen target to pulverise that 175 shield in 1-2 autos in less than 1 second while I'm still channeling. > and if Heimerdinger is nearby you’ve gotta assume he’s got 3 turrets somewhere You should make the same assumptions for Shen blade. Laning against Zed requires you to keep track of his shadows. Same goes for Heim, Azir, Maokai (...) you constantly need to invest a ward in a bush before face-checking it otherwise you're dead or punished. I don't get how Shen blade should work differently considering its clunky mechanics, the risks it takes repositioning it, the not so awesome damage it provides. Actually I find more useful the very weak slow effect it provides.
Rioter Comments
ChanRa (EUW)
: @Riot, Pls give Lulu some love
Buff Lulu? It must be a troll post. There are no other explanations.
Rioter Comments
: > I tried 10 times already on EUW and NA boards since S3. Have you tried going to a meddler gameplay post... that’s where these questions get answered so keep an eye for the next one and ask there (that way meddler, aka the guy in charge, get a notification for your question) > Of course I have way more intelligent questions to ask but considering that I never recived an aswer in so many years to my detailed questions, at this point I just wanna know if RIOT knows that Shen exists. This would be enough for me. If you ask stupid questions like that then of course you aren’t going to be answered, there’s no point in answering that and you get nothing out of it. When you go to the meddler gameplay post maybe ask something along the lines of “what’s your opinion of the state Shen is in”, or “do you have any plans for Shen at the moment”... riot are planning to target tanks who get skewed by pro play it’s a good time to ask. But how you ask is a big factor of if you will be answered... ask like this and you’ve got no hope. > And all this just because this season he has been picked like less than 10 times in LCS and he was just decent. His win rate was like 50% Actually he was near pick or ban in the LCK... you can’t just look at LCS for statistics. > Meanwhile Camille... perma picked or banned with an incredible 74% win rate at some point. I really don't get why Shen is nerfed and Camille is perfectly fine. Cause only jungle Camille was an issue, top lane Camille (which was their priority as she’s meant to be in the top lane) already got nerfed out... that’s why, it’s harder to only nerf one play style. > Why is RIOT punishing Shen so harshly while being so lovely and forgiving towards Camille, Yasuo, Zoe and stuff like that? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for nerfs of other champions. Camille, Yasuo and Zoe are fine for me but damn, the nerfs on Shen are laughable. Camille gets plenty of nerfs, yasuo hasn’t been an issue really people just throw stuff into his wind wall and cry about it, and Zoe got nerfed to oblivion. So they aren’t kind to all of them. And Shen causes plenty of issues in pro play... his presence can severely stagnate coordinated play by punishing proactive play (all fights can result in a numbers advantage)... as a champion designed for pro play riot are going to have the priority of using pro play data to balamce him not solo Q where his issues is that without coordination he doesn’t have much of an ult... Like I said before... you either put up with Shen being a champion designed and balanced for pro play or outright loose everything that makes Shen who he is in a rework... either way you ain’t gonna be happy.
Like I have already said, I tried to ask very detailed questions about Shen for **YEARS** and during all these years I wasn't the only. No one single answer from RIOT. Nothing at all. On a monthly basis I search on boards for threads about Shen to see if RIOT have the decency to respond or at least post to say "Hi". No luck. It's frustrating seeing them answering millions of times to threads about main-stream champions. I've seen them mentioning Shen **TWO** times on Reddit after the rework. Of course they said nothing important. Basically they just wrote his name. As for the rest I don't know what's the difference between LCS and LCK. I don't give a damn about pro-play and I don't see statistics. It's just that one beatuiful I was reading patch notes and I saw that there was something for Shen and I said "Oh, finally a buff! Someone noticed it" but nope! It was a damned nerf because of pro-players. Then I went to see what the heck Shen was achieving in pro-play. I was expecing to see him performing well but he was nothing special with a vanilla 50% win rate. In the same time I saw Camille with a massive 74% win rate... Shen nerfed. Camille is fine. **Okay! It makes a lof of sense when you are drunk!** In conclusion seeing my out of meta and weak champion that really deserves a buff ignored for 5 years (expect for a stupid rework and an useless skin) is frustrating. The fact that they don't talk about him or provide answers is even more tilting. But the worst thing is when you see him mentioned just when he's nerfed for stupid and unnecessary reasons due to the simple fact that he has been picked more than 4 times by pro-players (0.01% of player base). The same players who performs just average with him and that don't even like this champion.
: You are one masochistic person, i have to say that tbh.
: You are in the wrong place... the rioters on EU aren’t the ones balancing the game... you’d best go to NA or go wait for the next meddler gameplay update post to ask the question You might also want to flesh the question out a bit, that doesn’t help anybody and riot is indeed aware of his issues but not much can be done. Thirdly you don’t need to have that much mastery points to ask the question you can just go to a meddler post and ask and he will likely answer. And finally their hands are tied here. A champion should be balanced based on their strenghs, riot shouldn’t balance around a champion being used incorrectly... instead riot should always look to where the champion is strongest and balance around that... typically high elo or pro play. Shen is one of a group of champions who is designed to assist teammates, to that end he should be balanced where he is in his element not when he is out of it... which is what riot have done. Yeah I know this sucks but that’s the reality of it... there’s a group of champions who are pretty much designed for pro play not solo Q... riot aren’t going to mess up pro play to get these champions strong in solo Q because riot made them for pro players... Shen is one of these champions, riot would have to rework him to the point where he no longer is recognisable for him to be balanced for solo Q... aka he’d have to loose his ult.
I tried 10 times already on EUW and NA boards since S3. [This was my last attempt](https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/hbt7he4U-shen-5th-attempt-in-2-years). Of course I have way more intelligent questions to ask but considering that I never recived an aswer in so many years to my detailed questions, at this point I just wanna know if RIOT knows that Shen exists. This would be enough for me. -------------------------- If you want me to be more specific, I started to play Shen when I downloaded this game in S3. Since then, also considering the rework, we had **2 bland buffs in 7 years** (not worth to mention... pure garbage) and tens of direct and indirect nerfs. If we consider this season we had 4 * TP (must-have as top) CD increased * Damage lowered. Yeah, the problem of this game was Shen damage * We can no longer lasthit since Q bonus no longer works on minions like if farming with Shen wasn't already frustrating: easily zoned, slow attack speed, low dmg, no spells to use against CS, single target, melee, snail at pushing and getting turrets mainly with hardcore matchups * New rune system... ADAPTIVE BONUSES... I want AP not AD!!! Let me choose And all this just because this season he has been picked like less than 10 times in LCS and he was just decent. His win rate was like 50%. Meanwhile Camille... perma picked or banned with an incredible 74% win rate at some point. I really don't get why Shen is nerfed and Camille is perfectly fine. Now repeat this process for 7 years. Suffering and accepting nonsensical nerfs on a yearly basis just because ONE DAY a pro-player picks Shen and wins is stupid. Why is RIOT punishing Shen so harshly while being so lovely and forgiving towards Camille, Yasuo, Zoe and stuff like that? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for nerfs of other champions. Camille, Yasuo and Zoe are fine for me but damn, the nerfs on Shen are laughable.
: > and I have 500k points on 2 smurf accounts Wtf 2 Shen?!
fixed: ~~500k~~ 576k I told you... It's sad
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > In the meantime enemy team is FULL PLATINUM while we are FULL SILVER just because I'm Diamond. What a damn beautiful experience! So you think that you should be put vs 5 silvers? Cause that’s also just as unfair. We have been told multiple times about how the matchmaking work and specifically this interaction with queuing up with different ranks... you’ve done this fully knowing you’d be vs full plats. The alternative is not letting you queue with your friends in general. It’s not going to be fair... if you get paired with people your level your teammates will struggle, if you pair with people their level then your just going to carry... neither one is fair, it’s why ranked doesn’t let you do this but clash does just so that you can queue with friends. ___ You knew full well this would happen, and you knew it wouldn’t be fair for someone by doing this... and yet you did it anyway... so you can’t really complain.
I'm not complaining. I'm sharing my feedback that of course is negative. I do know how matchmaking works in Flex/soloQ but don't forget that there are limitations there! A diamond can't play with silvers and golds since it would be unfair. In Clash this is possible in worst way. 1 dia & 4 silvers vs 5 plats is not damn balanced! You can't sum the MMR like you do in normal games. Anyway Clash for sure is better than nothing but for me is a big no. It doesn't meet my requirements. I wanted a team-based queue like the one we had 2 years ago since Flex is not the same as playing in team. Having unbalanced games is okay for me even though my team mates cry but 5 bans just to address ME as a single player is a stupid concept. Clash is basically kicking out mains, OTPs and high-ELO players from mixed-ELO teams.
Cosmic LoIi (EUNE)
: To be fair it makes a lot of sense as for why they did it. You were the scariest enemy out of 5 and there is quite a gap between diamond and silver. If you were in the same situation you would probably do the same thing in order to win. And as for the matchups, it makes sense why a very high elo player can't just stomp silvers/golds, they even made the sms system to deny smurfing.
Since I was Diamond I was already forcing my team mates into matches against enemies that they cannot handle. My silver bot lane against a platinum one (outfarmed, zoned, outdamaged), my silver top against platinum (2 turrets down before minute 10), mid laner dealing less damage than enemy support. The only reason we've been matched in such an unbalanced game was my ELO but for Clash this sort of "punishment" is not enough! I also have to accept 5 bans just for me. I ask myself a question. What the hell is the point of forming mixed-ELO teams? To increase difficulty for low-ELO team mates and enjoy the ban of your champion pool? Of course I will not play Clash anymore.
: The mode is designed to emulate pro play tournaments... one of the rules of pro play is that you’ve gotta let everyone know all of your accounts so that coaches can look at your champion pool and talor bans accordingly. You should have a champion pool big enough for the off chance regardless... at least some fall back champions... and by doing this they let your team pick whatever they want. And of course matchmaking does it like this... if it didn’t you’d carry way too easily.
Enemy team sees 5 players and 25 champions mastered by each of them. Here comes the ban time. * 1st ban? My pick * 2nd ban? My pick * 3rd ban? My pick * 4th ban? My pick * 5th ban? My pick In the meantime enemy team is FULL PLATINUM while we are FULL SILVER just because I'm Diamond. What a damn beautiful experience! It's not about playing more champs. The point is that mixed-ELO teams can't work because of this shit. The system encourages Plats to go with Plats, Silvers with Silvers etc. I really don't get how it is supposed to work and be balanced. Seriously, with my Diamond I force my low-ELO team mates into matches against high-ELO enemies that they cannot handle. As if it wasn't enough I can't even carry because all bans are just for me. **In conclusion the question is: for what damn reason an high-ELO player should join in teams with lower ELO? For the love of playing unbalanced matches and be bullied with 5 bans?**
SuccPapí (EUW)
: i meen, clash i a highly competetive mode, of course people will man what you are best at. you can maybe widen your champion pool?
There are **FIVE** players in my team. How is that just one (ME) have to see all his champions banned? This system allows mixed-ELO teams therefore as a Diamond player I decided to play with my low ELO friends. I punished myself already but obviously this is not enough! FIVE bans just for me. It makes no sense.
Rioter Comments
Smerk (EUW)
: It's still the same, you can check after every game how much did you get.
Thanks. Okay then it was just a feeling... Sigh :-( so boring
Rioter Comments
Smerk (EUW)
: that thing is automatic, based on what players picked recently, Riot don't have any vote in that. Also tip: you can add any champion to any role manually as a favorite and it will stay there for as long as you want
Hansiman (EUW)
: In champion select? That's automatically based on champs that were recently popular in that role.
I don't want that to happen. I don't want to sound rude but I don't give a damn about champ popularity in that role. I main him as support. What others play doesn't interest me. Anyway I got it. I can't change it.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Arnoter (EUW)
: >To me league seems to be having a difficult year, on the player side and at riots end. No, the Game is fine, its the players that complain about everything. And if enough people say the same thing, people like you start to believe it and repeat it too, for other people to believe.
That's why me and my premade group of friends (12 people) quit this game. There's only one of us that is still playing like nothing happened and he's the stupidest one (perma bronze-5 that doesn't even know what "meta" and "patch notes" are). We all quit for the same reason. Disgusting gaming experience with the same few champions and mechanics to abuse in order to win. From time to time I re-open my client and my friend list seems like a desert. All disconnected. Before these disgusting changes I had to scroll multiple times to see the first buddy offline. Now there are 3/5 people playing and nothing more. I'm not sayin that this game is dying but for sure from my point of view I can see that someting changed.
Kian987 (EUW)
: Shen (5th attempt in 2 years)
**SHEN HAS BEEN... NERFED!** I can belive was I am seeing on PBE! What the actual %%%%? > (Q) Spirit Blade collision slow changed from 35% at all ranks to [15/20/25/30/35%] **REALLY!?**
Rioter Comments
Kian987 (EUW)
: Shen (5th attempt in 2 years)
Playing Shen these days is like eating sand paper. Delete Shen from the game.
Burn for me (EUNE)
: what a dumb reply
Sefi (EUNE)
: Adapt.
Adapt to what? There are 150+ champion and a countless number of items but the only things that work are the same 20 champions played in the same way with the same items. Anyway I agree with you. Adapt? Sure, I quitted this game almost 2 months ago. I just come back to play few games after patchs to see if the game still sucks and if it's still not fun to play and well... it still is so yeah, I'm adapting to do something else with my time.
Kian987 (EUW)
: Shen (5th attempt in 2 years)
LuL... Just played few games to see if something changed in this patch and all I see is that this game is now an enormous pile of smelly shit. At this point my whole thread about Shen is not even relevant. The entire game is so disgusting. Of course Shen as always confirms himself as the the king of the shit. See you next patch... maybe... this game and RIOT lost all my respect. As I have already said in other threads we were a group of 12 premades playing this game since S3/S4. Only one of us keeps playing normally like if nothing changed and he's the only one in bronze ELO so probably he still needs 2 years to get realize how disgusting this game is. I play only 1 or 2 days after patch to see if there are good changes. All my other friends quitted or are playing discontinuously and rarely. WELL FU*KING PLAYED RIOT
: To the Toxic Chat Trolls. Here are some facts to consider.
I'll surely get tons of downvotes but I hate this political correctness. We live in an era where you can no longer talk freely as you wish. It's like freedom of speech is becoming an optional. You have to double and triple check every single word you say because hey someone on Mars coud be offended by your words. And I see it happening everywhere not only on the internet and I think that it just sucks. For example I love when people use the technique of argument to absurdity. I use it myself. It's fascinating, it captures the attention and keeps the discussion fresh. When I see someone using it on TV politically correct people get immediately triggered. They must repeat their usual trigger warnings and make the debate flat and bland. Then a guy commits a suicide because someone said him "Stupid" in a game and it's our fault. Nope! It's fault of society? Nope! It's fault of their stupid parents and himself. If i hang myself the responsible is not the hardware store that sold me the rope. I hate this tendency of shift responsibility to third-party entities. No offense but this political correctness is turning so many people into pussies. Millennials are not even able to pee without using smartphones. Probably they'll explode if you call them stupid. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a bit off-topic but I think it represent very good what we're becoming. This happened to me during the last 2 years: * I came back home from a party. One of my neighbour was dying (she's an old lady). I didn't even know her name but it was night and silent so it was pretty easy to hear her screaming. I called the ambulance and she's fine now. Next morning I found out that the tend topic in my apartment building was her. They were all listening but no one called the ambulance * Last year one guy at 5 AM was punching his girlfriend. It was summer and I was sleeping with my window open so I woke up and I immediately went out to stop this idiot. There were tens of people watching from their balconies taking pictures. No one called the police. I had to call them myself -.-" * Yesterday I was running. At KM 15 I noticed a dozen of people taking pictures of an huge pipe releasing tons of wather everywhere. The area was flooding. One old man said "Why nobody is coming to fix this? It's 10 minutes that it's going like this" I stop and asked "Any of you called fire brigades?". No answer. Most of them were taking pictures and recording videos. I had to call them. Same exact thing happened last year with a dumpster on fire. Tens of people recording videos. No one called fire brigades I could be wrong but I think that PC plays a role in producing this kind of spineless people. It seems that I'm the only one who is capable of using emergecny numbers.
Tímé (EUW)
: Change is good!
I said it already in more than 3 threads. At the moment I: * Finished Z a game from 1996 * Play Populous: The Beginning a game from 1998 * Read tons of books * Run 80 km per week instead of 40 Of course I no longer play LoL since it has become a disgusting game. I loved it since season 3 but it no longer deserves my time and patience. I don't even care about inactivity. Probably in this precise moment I'm already dropped from diamond. Who cares.
radetari (EUNE)
: This game is trash now and I don't wanna play Fortnite! Any suggestions?
I said it already in other threads. If you like super-retro-gaming you can play * Z - The bitmap brothers - Released in 1996 but sadly I have already finished it in 1 week * Populous The beginning - Released in 1998. It's awesome! Now I'm playing it
: I tested Riots ban system: HOW TO GET BANNED WITHOUT ANY FLAME
I just want to say that I find it disgusting. Wp Matuš. Thank you for your effort.
: Stop complaining about aatrox rework ffs appreciate what riot is doing for once
I appreciated what RIOT is doing... by leaving this game :-D
Rioter Comments
: There is too many variables, my post would've been too long and that wasn't the point of my post, it's not about ranting on and on why league is bad and why I've left, it's literally just about saying good bye. But if I have to give a reason why; it is because of my personality. That is what I believe is at the core of my decision. I don't like change. When I was young my parents traded our Opel at the dealership and bought a new Nissan. I hated the Nissan. I refused to drive in it with them, and I hated my parents for selling the Opel. I've grown up a bit now, but I still miss that Opel, thinking off tracing the car and buying it from who ever is owning it now and fixing it up, but that's where it stays, in my thoughts. So the comparison I'm trying to make is, playing League was like driving that old Opel with my dad, sure the electric windows wasn't working and it had it's flaws, but it was fun and it made me happy. League today is like the Nissan, is it a better car (game)? Yes, definitely, but it's just. not. the. same. I don't get the same feeling from it, if it makes any sense. So yeah, it's been coming for a long time now and today, after 2 months not playing, I got triggered by the client not working properly, so I just decided f this and made the call.
I don't like changes too. I don't think that it's a problem. I'll never bend and adapt to new shitty and main stream stuff just because they've been imposed and there are no alternavies. The world must change. I'll never do. Same goes for LoL. This game is changing too much and badly. It can be still fun to play for teenagers but not for me therefore I've stopped playing it. I come back to play 1 game every week. If the game still sucks then I extend my "ban" to another week and so on. As soon as I get rich enough I'll buy this entire company (RIOT) just to shut down all servers. My next target is Apple. Wait for me.
Kian987 (EUW)
: Shen (5th attempt in 2 years)
From now on I'll keep posting replies in my own thread juts to add something more. It shouldn't be a problem since RIOT will never read a single line of my message also because they don't give a damn about Shen. I left the game for a week. Right now I finished 2 normals I played just to remember to myself why I left the game. The usual shit happened in both games. Unskilled Yasuo and Master Yi in enemy team carried the game melting my team mates full HP plus my ultimate. My fed Jax was full HP + my R against a so and so Yi. He died in 2 autos. TWO. How powerful is my ultimate? What about my ADC oneshotted by Akali that totally ignores my shield? What about the stupid Yasuo feeding and playing like an idiot that is still capable of easily split and take all turrets and inhibitors? Oh and the Rakan support? I taunt him and his ADC using all my spells properly followed by my ADC and in the end I am the one who die in milliseconds while Rakan jumps, shileds, and heals everywhere like a beast with no cool down. Cool down uh? Rakan probably doesn't even know what is cool down. Okay it's time to increase my ban for this game. Last time I decided to stop playing for 1 week. The game still sucks and gives me SHI-TTY hours therefore I'll stop playing for 2 weeks. If the game still sucks when I come back I'll go for 3 weeks ban and so on. Honestly I can live without this game especially because all my premade friends are no longer playing due to recent disgusting changes. I am a simple man. Playing this game in its current state makes me furious. Doing something else is way better than this. I can sleep more and have more time to read books. Keep it up RIOT! You're losing me and I kinda like it. I don't know how to explain it but this season is so disgusting that I would trade it for the season of Devourer with the old Shen and map.
Kian987 (EUW)
: Shen (5th attempt in 2 years)
**Little update.** I still can't receive an answer from RIOT or find a statement on Shen status. I even posted the same thread on [**NA board**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/528UFLaR-shen-6th-attempt-in-2-years) with no success. In addition to this the game for me is a dead body. I've stopped playing it. This is the 2nd time I leave this game indefinitely. The game is utterly unbalanced. RIOT have stopped listening to players long time ago. For every good change they make they introduce 3 new unbalanced things. This game no longer deserves my patience. The funny thing is that I replaced LoL with a game of 1996 that I used to play when I was a kid. It's [**Z (Bitmap Brothers)**](https://www.google.it/search?q=z+bitmap+brothers+download&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiigsWWmMXbAhVIfywKHRQGAocQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=923). I can't belive that LoL has been outclassed by a game of 1996!
: Incomming Support item nerfs
Welcome to my world. As a Shen main it's 2 years that I have to suffer neverending indirect nerfs because the items/runes I **USE** are **ABUSED** by other champions. Sun fire cape, the only item I have to push as a Shen (and I am still slow!) more than 2 years ago started to be abused by Tryndamere players. Tryndamere already is a pushing machine. If you add sun fire cape guess what happens... Solution? RIOT nerfed the item. Tryndamere is back to his normal state while Shen from this story gains a beautiful indirect nerf. The story always repeats. Do you remember the era of Devourer in jungle? Yi and Syvana have been allowed to abuse it for an entire season. When I was jungling with other champions I was simply using this item and not abusing it. In the end they removed it from the game. More than 4 years ago there was an item named Atma Impaler. It gave you AD based on how much HP you had. It was the only option for a Shen player to get something out of his HP bar in late game and the bonus was not even so big. Guess what? Other champions started to abuse it and the item has been removed. As a tanlky support I was always rushing Locket of Solari in order to provide shields to my allies. For the same reason I was also using Relic Shield to shield a specific ally. It was just ok. Then both items started to be abused to junglers and top laners. The first has been nerfed and the second removed from the game. Same story for Banner of command. An item for supports abused by mid laners. Nerfed.
cssghost (EUNE)
: It's not true at all. This guy just don't wanna adapt. He hit sweet spot of... i don't know, some high elo, and than complain that more and more ppl was hitting that elo. If you wanna stay in that elo, you got to adapt to anything that appear... Riot is gonna launch ranks for each role (THIS is really bad idea) and this guy complaining about meta? And builds, and champion counters? RLY?
You say "adapt". Okay, maybe I sould adapt to playing the same 20 champions with the same builds. I have to stop maining out-of-meta champions, trying new builds and strategies. What this guy says in the video it's pretty much what me and my friends are thinking about this game from more than 2 years. There are too many champions, too many escapes, mindfu*k abilities and items. Sadly this story repeats on every game and sport. Look at football. It was a lot more funny to watch when all players were less "PRO" but now it's all about strategy. WIth time matches are becoming slightly boring. Look at Call od Duty 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Lineage 2. They were fun to play! Look at them now... tons of mechanics, best graphics, tools, items, perks, statistics involved. Not so funny. I stopped playing these games because they TILT me. League of Legends is tiling me too since 2 years for similar reasons. And what I hate most is all the consumerism behind games. The need to release a new champions or videogame of the series (Call of Duty 2, 4, 5, 6, 35, 58, 97) to increase sales. Okay I do understand that making money is crucial for games to become better and better but we're exaggerating. They should start slowing down before people start to get bored. I have a job. When I go back home first I want to have fun AND secondly win the game. I can't read all these changes, patch notes, new champions released. Come on! It's a GAME not my job!
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Kian987

Level 180 (EUW)
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