: Actually I don´t think the item is too strong (not to mention that there are quite few options to deny the heal early and both items are very expensive - later to that - but 800g for exe calling or 1000g for bramble is way less gold to already cut the heal which you can afford way earlier, which I like to do in some matchups and it works pretty good for me). Though what I would like to see is that DD should become cheaper. DW guys - ofc that would make it super strong but I mean making it cheaper and also less stats ofc, but I like this item but rarely just really can afford to get it because there are other - partly a lot better choices - for less gold. It ofc is a niche item atm and for some champs with already strong healing (also red kayn) pretty dope, but honestly doesn´t help this much in the very end - not to mention that I sometimes died while I was in ult because of this dot :/. The dot you get is a pretty tough drawback. But still make it more affordable overall and maybe reduce the healing to 10%, dmg to 70, still 10cdr, 25% dmg as bleed, reducing costs to 3200/3100 or maybe reduce bleed to 20% so you are able to deal more burst dmg to people with this item since often they also have other healing abilities and even spirit visage so yeah they´re tanky already anyway. Also would miniimize the chance you die of the dot after you win a fight -.- sucks pretty damn hard. And reducing cost on 3050/3000 - would sound fair to me. And the possibility is there to maybe get the AD down to 65 so it would definitely look finally like a real fighter item. Because they often have some defensive items, but need also some offensive items that also give them some def/semi defensive like this item against burst but also as I mentioned. The costs are super high for this, rarely worth to buy. 20% dmg as bleed would be still fine for some dmg soak with your often 1-2 full def items and other hybrid (tanky and some dmg) items. It does look like it is for fighter class yet though... it feels trashy. High cost item for not that much value in the end since there´s legit way better stuff you can get. I think I do agreee to nerf it but actually it would be a buff, if you would lower cost. Just nerfing dmg, heal, dmg reduction without any compensation would make this item just completely useless. I hope you didn´t mean this. And maybe we should mention the build path is trash. They may then should add what they did for example for sunfire cape. Adding Bamis was pretty good idea. So it would be a nice thing to take away pickaxe maybe and vamp scepter and making an item that is build from vamp scepter which gives you 8% heal from all dmg dealt 25-35ad, 10-15% dmg taken as bleed. Costs for upgrade from vamp scepter could be around 600-800g so full price would be like 1400-1600g which should be fine for those stats, also would fix lots of problems of some champs with sustain in lane or getting heavily bursted easily early on - ofc it still will happen but can help out a bit. Also build path would be wayyyyyyyyyyyy better and worth to build. Just feels so bad to not be able to fully buy it if you have a warhammer already because buying pickaxe then and vamp scepter feels bad at this state of the game already when you´re deciding to build it this game. And feels like a super loss in power, while others get a cheaper item which will be probably better or more useful.... since the 30% dmg reduce isn´t as awesome as you think. It was intended to be an "assassin" counter item for adcs or other assassins and ad squishies yet though... doesn´t matter because even with those 30% the most assassins will have more than enough dmg to just OS you even with a DD - which you bought for a very high price and... ga is just way better for this job as an example. It lacks identity and this should be looked at. So I hope you get my points. I think a bit of a change is really needed yet though not straight up hard nerf it but more making it more valuable and giving it an identity that you really can afford this item and has a good purpose: you will get some semi tankyness so it´s worth to get if you have already some hp and maybe also some def stats. With the reduced healing, dmg and reduce delayed dmg - it would help and also fix a little of your issue you seem to have with it. Imo atm it feels really just not so good. And to someone who asked if it does stack with gunblade - yes it does because it is unique effect but not a named unique effect so as it was said the combo on some champs is pretty dope. Also making DD more affordable for other champs would mean that it would be less of a niche item and open up for a lot of nice builds on champs that didn´t buy it before because of the high price in comparison to what it offers. For most champs it just is not cost efficient in any way. Not to mention that even if you survive because of 30% dmg reduce, heal etc and kill someone - you die of the dot.... happened to me pretty often already since you have nothing anymore to heal of. I think the reasons I mention is also the reason that just very few champions get this item and also not every game - also don´t build it this often on red kayn though it is legit the best offense item for him but.... the costs are so high you can get better things for faster spikes and better fights etc. which will win you more fights than waiting and losing fights till you get this item. Additionally it has it´s reason it rarely is seen in higher elo or pro play... actually even in low elo I nearly never see it
Just to be clear, the issue I'm having with this item, is that it offers both offensive and defensive stats in all game stages. In early-mid game, a bruiser getting this item 1st or 2nd can be even more durable than most tanks, until later in the game. As for countering it, sure buying {{item:3123}}, or {{item:3076}} can help, and they are quite cheap, but for mages it's a problem, because you'd have to complete {{item:3165}} to counter it, and you can't start buying that item 1st, because you generally always need to start buying a mana/cdr item first to have better ressource managment, as for running {{summoner:14}}, it's not always a good option depending on what you're up against, and you'll have an oportunity to use it every 3 minutes. So to make it short, I don't currently like how DD is at the moment, because it alows you to make mistakes as a bruiser, and often get away with it, because you know you won't get bursted, and can still heal from minions.
: > [{quoted}](name=King Noobius,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=JsZEiBJK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-17T21:32:33.113+0000) > > So what do you guys think of this item? to me it's currently too strong right now, it offers way too much: > > * it gives a lot of AD (80 AD); > * Spell vamp (15%); > * CDR (10%); > * And it makes you very tanky since 30% of the damage you receive is dealt as bleed (which isn't a big deal since you will heal it back because of the spell vamp); > > People are often rushing this item, and there's not much you can do about it to counter it early, and some champions (like Akali and Katarina), pair it with {{item:3146}} , and in late game, even with grivious wounds applied, they heal too much. > > So from what I think, it needs a small nerf on the damage reduction part at a point where at least it is still punishable in lane, and a bit less tanky in late game. I know it's pricey, but for me it offers too many benefits for that price. > > So what's your opinion on this item? btw I have to add one thing - you say it does offer spell vamp which is indeed not wrong, just it does heal you for 15% OF ALL dmg dealt so also AA counts, Item dmg count - everything. Same goes for the Gunblade passive it heals you with every single dmg you deal, no matter what. - sorry for being a smartass >.<
Well yes, but we can agree that most of it's healing utility comes from spell vamp.
Antenora (EUW)
: Gunblade is just as broken.
Not at all, the diffrence between Gunblade and DD is the bleed effect on DD which allows you to survive lots of bursts. And Gunblade doesn't give any CDR. The only thing that Gunblade has more than death dance is it's slow active, which is not a deal breaker.
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King Noobius

Level 39 (EUW)
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