Rioter Comments
: To be fair where could they find a playerbase as big as on the euw life server? Nowhere. So the only way of testing it for such large groups is to put it on the life server and test it. I doubt that they *forgot* the have a such large playerbase and didn't design the system for that but rather some problems you can't predict until they happen. They are one of the biggest online games so most things they make they have to invent brand new because solutions that work for smaller playerbases don't work for us.
There are things called simulations.
: If you don't like developer than do survey. If you think Riot can't afford coders who don't know their job than why League of Legends is top multiplayer game over years. Top in esports and top as popularity. I think you are just one tilted kiddo who needs to relax
Interesting that you think I am "tilted". Also I do believe games such as Fortnite have now vastly over taken Lol, equally after repetitive failings treating their coders like the best of the best would be silly at best.
: They do their best to fix as their interest is to let players play the game. complaining here cant do a work . we can spend all day here saying clash doesnt works nothing changes they work on it
It may encourage them though, meaning constructive criticism is by no means a bad thing.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
For something that so negatively impacted the community the people they currently have on clash noting its prior failings are not enough, encouragement to move some of their coders off of other projects and onto clash.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
As in putting more resources into making sure Clash doesn't become the infamous Crash. Just to focus their attention onto it even more than they already have.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I am somewhat confused as to how reaching a greater level is by anyway a bad thing, also it is required as the current level has been proven to not be high enough, through multiple failings.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: I see your point. However, You can't expect a company to correct a problem that has not even occured before on other regions. I disagree. Considering the scale of the issue, i'm surprised they managed to clear it this quickly. Even tho, 2 hours may be huge, It is nothing compared to a whole day or weekend gone. It is illogical to assume that even if they make sure it works, it won't brake down again. And how can you say that it was their coders that got it wrong? Maybe the issue is not in coding? Maybe the issue is in hardware? or infrastructure? or management? or whatelse not. Hundred things can go wrong. Forget a nut and the screw wont hold. In life not everybody gives and takes. And considering how much riot has actually given, taking a day(and even then, only using few hours out of the whole day) is not something outrageous. This is a free to play game, with income being purely on a) Cosmetics B) Merch c) Esports and other events. As their income is large enough to have the need to pay dividends to shareholders every once in a while,(Usually decided in shareholders meetings) as well as every employee, service and other expenses(This includes but is not limited to hextex crafting, payment services, free content hosted on payd servers and more), this means they have to effeciently manage their income. And even so, they have managed to create a system that gives away free stuff JUST FOR PLAYING the game. And when they try to test stuff and tell people that a system that crashed whole regions last time, is gonna be tested on certain regions in certain times and they do it....I see no reason to ask for compensation. Since nobody forced you to play at this time. Even more so, you were given enough information to make an educated guess if it's worth playing at that time, worth helping the riot test the system or go on with your own daily life. You(As in you the player, not you directly) making the choice to play while a previously bodged up feature is being tested and is already warned multiple times ahead...it means it's purely your decision. I have to agree, some fault may be at riot. But only thing I can blame them is for not warning the community that the clash may have issues due to not being ready to released yet. But I suspect they did not expect another platform overload and expected far less serious issues. So I stand by my side: no cushion needed. It was a rough fall for both community and for riot employees, no need to soften the fall when both parties are at the same position. Even worse for Riot, since reoccuring problems like these cause stressful environment, but also push riots employees to their limits to take on the challenge and solve it. However, "A good strategy takes time," and so is with fixing a problem with any feature or part of the client or game. Fixing it for good takes time. Let's not talk about the fact that nidalee spears can oneshot again if certain conditions are met(And I mean 100 to 0 an enemy) Or that syndra actually had a q revert because it was making a 7 ball combo come out too fast. Well you get the point. Shit happens. Suck it up, move on. This is league. If anything seemed directed at you, sorry, it was not meant to be directed at you specifically.
It's a tad harder to offend me than that to don't worry. However my previous points still stand, equally noting Crash/Clash, didn't exactly magic up new players so didn't exactly leave the infrastructure incapable of supporting the games I would say it was definitely the coding. Equally yes League isn't perfect but it's still damn good, and I think the fact that, that wasn't delivered after several failed attempts is why Clash/Crash was received so badly. Also again with the "give and take" this is divulging into a moral argument, hence again as on a previous discussion I suggest we agree to disagree. XD
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Quite a bit. On all 4 regions i can waste a whole day:D
Long as you enjoy it I guess. XD
: > [{quoted}](name=Krazzos,realm=EUW,application-id=slFBEUB8,discussion-id=5NE5oiGi,comment-id=0009000200000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-06-11T23:16:50.410+0000) > > Normals aren't at fixed times you have to work around though. You are not making a fair or logical comparison. To be fair, you took those days off despite knowing it is a test run, so you were at least partially prepared to have your evening ruined, hving the experience of last week.
Yes but as mentioned in another one of these conversations, it is unusual for such a large company to get things wrong twice in a row, hence we call made the mistake of trusting that Riot wouldn't get it wrong again.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I don't believe I wrote that it wasn't, however my former point still stands as bringing attention to a matter to an even greater level surely cannot harm things.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Which is their fault, not riots:P
Ok I am curious, how much time do you actually spend on these forums Scrinnid? Cause you seem to be able to type an awful lot and talk in many things too.(btw this is off topic thread so don't report me for not being on the topic XD)
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: The data gathering from multiple sources about the same issue is the best way to identify the issue. Sole reason in it is that some parts and bits of information can be only viewed on the receiving end. However, to analyze the system completely, you need info on both ends. Hence why i always send reports whenever I have any issues with league. Even if they have their own data, a quality report can ensure that a detail invisible at their side comes visible thanks to receivers data. I said, "is always on fire." not "was already on fire." The difference is that I said EUW is known to have platform issues. And thus I for once expected it to crash. And it seems, i was not the only one. What you said, tho, is that EUW already was having delays and other issues before the clash started and clash only amplified it. That is incorrect. The nuance of wording matters, padawan
Well on that note let's end this with a misunderstanding then rather then further divulge and spend more time debating an issue which occurred a few hours ago. Also... wow Star Wars, "YUCK"...... wow XD :)
Xaytah (EUW)
: This was named a "stress test" for a reason - the goal was to bend it and watched if it broke or not. They gave everyone a free ticket for this stress test too. i dont think a compensation is in order this time
The time wasted is just as valuable to most of us as the RP and BE.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: I on the other hand, don't expect any compensation, not even an urf. Reason is simple, Even tho i rescheduled everything, i already accounted it may be a bust. Even tho i did not expect to work up late.... close to morning. And I have to catch a flight back to aussies soon. I have to agree, it seems to me that way as well: people think that large company can handle a problem of a major event. I don't understand, how can one presume that. No matter the size of the company or wealth of a person, there will always be a time where you try your hardest to get a project going and it just keeps breaking down.
If you offer someone something, and then fail to deliver, surely you don't then do nothing for them? In my view you then have an obligation to at least offer something to have at least the moral standing that you made up for your failing. Hence I would be confused if Riot did completely nothing, as they offered something, and failed to deliver, and as previously stated no amount of excuses or warnings remove that fact. It's like being told you can buy the last loaf of bread, and then being told they've sold out, surely then they can offer you something else so you don't leave empty handed? It appears to be a moral difference though rather than a logical one. Hence this could go on for hours. XD
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: theres a difference between reading and reading. Now that thats out of the way. So you assume I didn't waste my time that I had already planned out and had to cancel...only to realize I should have not canceled. Not like I planned sitting up all night just to get the work done. The problem I see here is how people go like full "we want compensation" for pretty much everything out there. Even when a test is being conducted...compensation...cmon.. maybe i'm too old fashioned but I learned to earn stuff, not to get them given for free when some hurricane throws me out of the plane window only for me to land softly thanks to plane being on the water and without working engine. If you catch my comparsion. And also...I dont know whats with some people...if something doesn't work the first time, i don't expect it to work the other time as well until it has been theraly tested. No matter who tests it, be it a freaking goverment with multiple billions or a large gaming company with net worth of multiple millions.
I see your point, however when you have a player base which is also your customer base, most companies try to correct many mistakes immediately so as not to annoy them, sadly Riot didn't quite manage that this time. In business customer relations are very important, hence it was more than logical to assume that they would make sure it would work. Equally the setting of cancelling plans doesn't work for everyone, however Clash/Crash, also meant others didn't make plans making people miss out in more ways than one when it failed. In life you give and take, Riot took time from players, and now the players want something back. Although as stated in a different conversation we are currently having, the fact that there were warnings makes that compensation wrong to ask for in almost all cases. The only thing i can see as plausible is releasing URF again, as at least then it makes up for Clash/Crash due to the popularity of the mode. Also yes when things go wrong you shouldn't expect to be cushioned however, there is no reason why Riot cannot or shouldn't, after all it was their coders that got it wrong not us. In saying that I am by no means trying to insult them, just in case that is how it went across.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: The data gathering from multiple sources about the same issue is the best way to identify the issue. Sole reason in it is that some parts and bits of information can be only viewed on the receiving end. However, to analyze the system completely, you need info on both ends. Hence why i always send reports whenever I have any issues with league. Even if they have their own data, a quality report can ensure that a detail invisible at their side comes visible thanks to receivers data. I said, "is always on fire." not "was already on fire." The difference is that I said EUW is known to have platform issues. And thus I for once expected it to crash. And it seems, i was not the only one. What you said, tho, is that EUW already was having delays and other issues before the clash started and clash only amplified it. That is incorrect. The nuance of wording matters, padawan
Ok, if you want to talk Star Wars I am more than happy to set up a thread about it separately Jar Jar. :) Also congrats, you send reports, like most of us when the game doesn't work, cause we can't exactly edit the code ourselves, and no I wouldn't want to be able too either before you ask. Also I fail to see where i misunderstood your wording, "is always on fire", means there are always issues, and I can agree I often have to three pin reset to get League to work after playing a few games. "was already on fire" means it was on fire already, but always means all the time, so yeah where did I misunderstand you?
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: The point was that i rather fire(Ban, to be more precise) crybabies who think it's easy to code multiple blocks of code that have to interact with the rest of the game, live test it, track in real time, find the issue and all at the same time relay how's the issue evolving/being tracked/solved to community while maintaining calm when all the players here do is demand compensation or go full ape insulting riot. Tbh, i wouldn't be surprised if after such uproar they would just cancel the clash completely.
With the fact that insulting Riot is wrong, I completely agree, however it is perfectly understandable why people are, as you said "upset". "Crybabies" that want compensation I am on the fence about, on one hand they wasted their time, on the other I see your point about the warnings, so on that I neither agree nor disagree with you on. However I am more inclined to say a server wide game mode such as "URF" may be in order. Also I don't think the "crybabies", believe coding is easy, I believe they just think that Riot should be able to handle a problem with a major event on at least the second attempt noting how large a company they are.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Not everything has to be logical. I was answering a ridicelous post with a ridicule of my own:P
Well as what you stated had the intent to be ridiculous I must say well done, as, as stated by me earlier it did make me laugh. XD
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Both times, the issue was different, altho the results were the same. And they didn't brush it under the carpet. They admitted "welp. another %%%% up, lets put this server out of it's mysery and try to find this issue before it does any more harm." Also, IT WAS A %%%%ING TEST! IF you plan your evenins around it and expect it to work WHEN IT'S A LIVE TEST, then it's your fault, not riots. They even gave heads up multiple times. Not once. But multiple. For the sole purpose that people know if something aint right with platform, it's probably because clash is being tested. But meh...not my fault if people can't read
No Riot didn't, you are brushing it under the carpet though as you attempt to make light of how many people wasted their time and plans on this event. As stated earlier yes, maybe we were foolish, after all it's not like Riot has a large budget and a team of coders to make sure mistakes are sorted first time round........ Equally yes we were given warnings, but I can tell you as many times as you want that something bad might happen, but that does little to make it better when it does, as we all trusted Riot to be able to fix Clash/Crash after seeing it miserably fail to begin with. Also, if we couldn't read how on earth would I be talking to you? Just a fun little thing for you to try to figure out. :)
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: that was my point.
Wow, what a mind blowing piece of logic Scrinnid. XDDDD
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: do note, this was actually a test of how large stress the feature generates and how much the platforms can handle. But this was not the sole reason, but a one of many things they tested out. Out of all the things, this happened to be the only one to brake on a server that...well..is always on fire. I suspect it would have happened anyway. Based on my bughunting team, there were too many variables to track it down singlehandedly, however a larger strain made those issues way more apparent. To the point of platform crash. Altho, assumption, it's a point to start. But I suspect their data is way more accurate, so i only sent our raw data and data analyzes(excluding assumptions). They only managed to do that thanks to hands on monitoring. As I've been on the job before(Not in Riot tho), I pretty much know what kind of a headache it was.
So you have just said they were stress testing a server, that was already, as you said "on fire", is it just me that can see the glaring logical failing in that? XDDD Equally whilst yes, coding something like Clash/Crash I cannot imagine was easy, we are talking about a company as large as Riot, they have the funds to be able to pay the coders. Also yes I agree, Riot probably does have much better data on their systems than you and any team you may or may not have. Also if Riot's coders couldn't fix the issue in weeks worth of time, I sincerely wish your team, if it exists, good luck in being any help at all.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: is that an excuse I hear. Sorry, i wasn't aware your such a nobody
So you're telling me that I am a nobody because I don't have access to change the code of one of the most successful online games....... Ya know I must say, that genuinely made me laugh, so thanks for that. XD
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: Lmao. It's more like so many people are more mature than those crybabies who can't take a single hint that the test subject may cause issues. I wonder why they warned every region beforehand. So people would know when to expect any issues including platform. But logic is not something this community has
Yes, that's why we chose to trust such a large company wouldn't mess up twice in a row......... Also yes, but brushing, "crashing the whole game for two hours", under the carpet so quickly, really isn't fair to those of us who based our evenings around it, again.
Arnoter (EUW)
: Its a Game, its not like you are a Pro or anybody Important that puzzles his Life around League, like some Streamers do. You lose time playing Normals, too.
Normals aren't at fixed times you have to work around though. You are not making a fair or logical comparison.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: ok. You're fired
Firstly, I don't think one person was in charge of coding Clash/Crash, that would be a lot of work, hence we are talking about a team. Meaning that you can't fire one person, equally they did repair main League after two hours of the crash. They did make up for the error by at least letting us play for some of the evening. So why fire anyone? Let alone a random (at the time) level thirty called Karolmo.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: so go and fixc the issue or shut the %%%% up
Sorry, I was unaware I had access to Riot's servers.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: the amount of garbage comments in this thread is real....uuuh....poor mods. i feel they are gonna have a field day cleaning this thread up if they want to bother.
Yeah so many people don't seem to realise just how annoying being made to waste your time is when something repetitively fails.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: you might want to reas wtf happened before all went haywire. the laqunch went well on most servers, eune had no problems. so how come euw got hit hard suddenly? thats because the variables were so different that it didnt cause isssues in smaller population of eune but did cause issues in largest population of euwest.and there's more than just that. I finally managed to recreate the bug on OCE as well. Needles to say I submited the bug report, tech report and problem analyzes to riot. so yhea...they could not predict and avoid that.
So they failed to make the system work for larger populations..... only way they couldn't have predicted the change in system strain is if they neglected to factor in that different areas have different amounts of players. So well done for actually getting the smaller populations to work, but forgetting to test for a larger player base is by no means excusable noting that first time failed too. I sincerely hope that next time (if there is one), they fix it for a larger population, however whatever excuses are made about the variables, the fact that they couldn't be bothered to take those variables into account is not ok, if they had bothered to test for them, and modify the software for them, then maybe the fault wouldn't have been so bad, for example not crashing the entire game, only Crash/Clash, or maybe it wouldn't have happened at all. Either way I just wish that they make sure next time works before what little hope for Clash/Crash there is on EUW is lost. I must say I was rather pleased they brought the main game back online in around two hours after crashing it though, in fairness to their coders.
Arnoter (EUW)
: Sure, thats the way that does fix it. This was a TEST, maybe you should look up what that word means.
Yes but a failed test is still annoying regardless of whether or not it is a test or not. Just because something isn't assured doesn't mean it's not annoying if it doesn't work. Equally yes it may help to fix it by bringing to Riot's attention even more so how much the player base want this issue fixed.
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: and the issue was not present in previous patches. ofc it needs to be pointed out, but you dont have to be deconstructive or straight out insultive doing so
The issue caused last attempt to fail too. So yes it was present. :)
Shanica (EUW)
: Why did you have to reply this way? They're trying their best.. I believe them that it's not that simple. Good luck guys.
Yes they may be trying their best, however that changes nothing when so many people have lost their time due to the same thing failing. Good luck to them, but I hope they don't destroy Lol again noting their budget.
Shanica (EUW)
: The more clash becomes popular, the more people play it, this was a stress test, please check the term. And people have to stop whining all day and go do something better.
Yeah but many of us changed plans, clash was the something better, our mistake came from trusting that the exact same thing wouldn't happen again to such a large company. Also I doubt Clash is becoming very popular now.
Arnoter (EUW)
: I didnt even register for Clash, I dont wanted to give my phone numer away. But I knoiw how much work it is to set things up like this, so I dont complain.
Clearly not too much if its failed twice. So yes, please do complain.
: Quick update: we've shut down the Clash Beta for EUW now and all game services seem to be recovering EDIT: If you're already in a lobby and can't start the game, disband and re-form your lobby and that should help **EDIT2: We're not doing any more Clash in EU tonight. It's a wrap and we're disappointed it didn't work out.** Regarding compensation, we don't have anything planned for this particular instance. It was meant to be a test and, as it sometimes happens with tests, it failed :( Thank you for participating with such enthusiasm. We'll take the data we've gathered today and use it to figure out why everything broke - and how to prevent it from breaking next time.
Thanks for fixing normal Lol. :) Edit: that doesn't make up for the time lost though, least normal Lol is back for the rest of the evening though.
Tsukumaki (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Execrabilis,realm=EUW,application-id=slFBEUB8,discussion-id=5NE5oiGi,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-06-11T18:21:17.721+0000) > > rito fan boy spotted ? He just doesn't get worked up over a %%%%ing bug nothing is perfect, nobody is perfect. The people working at Riot are just human like us. They are trying their best to fix this bs and people complaining will only stress them out which obviously doesn't have any good effects no.{{champion:17}}
No currently league doesn't work at all, you are right, Crash/Clash, did make nothing in League perfect. Great shame this happened at all noting Riot's budget.
: Yeah ,that's an good point but remember it isnt only one server that they're operating with issue happening almost everyweek..{{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
I'm just sorta hoping that if they do try this again at least if it fails it will be contained to Clash/Crash.
Arnoter (EUW)
: Stop begging for free Stuff, this was only a Test Run. They can fix this Stuff, try again and maybe it will work. You guys can be happy that it happens now, not at the Finals.
You may have an infinite amount of free time to spend trying to play Clash/Crash, but most of us don't, so excuse us for being a tad upset that our time is yet again sent down the drain.
: Guys , understand that its an overall server "issue".Whatever it is.. also you guys should had check that it was just an "Stress Test".By stress mean an test that would make some stress to the server with resulted in some damage , You guys also can notice that the Lobby issue really went to an fixing that the real issue,stills in invistigation ...so please, support riot , they already knewed and they went just for an test.Most ppl surely would be so happy and stop talking bad of riot if it worked..{{sticker:sg-soraka}}
All for supporting Riot in fixing this, and was ok with it not working the first time, however noting how much money they have available they should've been able to make this at least on the second try, if not work, at least not crash the entire game!
Scrinnid (EUNE)
: dude...it was A TEST LAUNCH AIMED TO FIND AND DESTROY BUGS!!!!!
Crashing the whole game is too small a bug to merely ignore.
: This is beta. Riot tries to make game better. If you are software engineer go and fix it if not stop complaining and relax
Still doesn't make up for the fact that many of us changed plans to compete in this, both times, and they couldn't even fix it for us.
: Why dont you go and fix it by yourself if you are that smart?
Surely with the amount riot is worth they can afford coders that know, how not to make the same mistake twice though?
Ettorac (EUW)
: No but that means you should have taken in concideration that you were investing your 30min in something risky. Thereby you shouldn't complain
Once is a mistake, that is forgivable, but for the company that Riot is making the same mistake twice is just wrong, hence yes we shall complain.

Krazzos

Level 228 (EUW)
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