Goodnigut (EUW)
: I think it's called _**"Creations & Concepts"**_ now. And what you are asking for is basically **Team Builder** which was removed.
> [{quoted}](name=Goodnigut,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gcpr49Qk,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T14:44:11.662+0000) > > I think it's called _**"Creations & Concepts"**_ now. That doesn't seem to be the right board for suggestions. According to the official description: _"Creations & Concepts - For sharing anything created by the community and showing off your skin ideas and champion concepts (Note: Not for requesting skins or current champ tweaks)"_ > And what you are asking for is basically **Team Builder** which was removed. It doesn't really matter what it's called. What matters is to have the ability to select a champion, a position and just play without having to go through the draft mode but right now there is no such option. That is what this suggestion is all about.
Goodnigut (EUW)
: You already posted this an hour ago.
Yes but it was deleted because it was posted on the wrong board. ^^ I remember there was a suggestions board but it seems it's gone.
Rioter Comments
Crûssio (EUW)
: We need Tb back, if you want to play a new champion its almost impossible , with the ban and the stuff. Select your champion in the game creation is perfect.
woelmuis (EUW)
: I understand your concern. However, blind pick can not be replaced with dynamic queue yet. Because blind pick is based on the creativeness of the player in chat, there are some options that are not yet covered by DQ. For instance, if I would want to choose something like fill, but no support, I cannot. If I were to make a system it would not be by picking the choices, but by banning them. This tackles my two main concerns. first, the one above. Second: The system would be more suitable for low-level players. If you scale your ban options like runes and masteries (one ban at level 1, one at level 10, one at level 20), you force new players to learn and improve their overall skill, making the game more enjoyable; While giving powerful tools to high level players to focus on a specific role. Teambuilder however is not a suitable replacement for blindpick. Blindpick is focussed on a broad understanding, while teambuilder is focussed on playing a specific champion or team combination.
> However, blind pick can not be replaced with dynamic queue yet. Not arguing on this but Riot is planning to replace Blind pick with dynamic queue anyways. > Teambuilder however is not a suitable replacement for blindpick. Blindpick is focussed on a broad understanding, while teambuilder is focussed on playing a specific champion or team combination. Yet this is how people are using Blind Pick. They are using the "type-first-get-first" convention to allow them to play a specific champion and position. _Essentially, they seek the functionality that Team builder offers but they still prefer Blind pick because it's faster. _ > Blindpick is focussed on a broad understanding I strongly disagree. For Blind pick, you only need "broad understanding" when the team frowns upon you for not doing what you are "supposed" to be doing. For example if all standard meta positions except Jungler are taken, then the team will probably expect you to pick a Jungler and if you do not, then you will face the (drama) consequences. The key in this example is that even if you do not pick a Jungler, _you are still using Blind pick as it was intended_, hence the name Blind pick. Nobody should have the right to blame you for "picking blindly" on Blind Pick. And yet you will be blamed because of the meta, the expectations, the convention etc. Sure you will learn from all that but it still makes for a bad player experience. Team builder on the other hand makes positions explicit and helps the new players learn while eliminating any ambiguity and drama.
MAestRIO (EUW)
: I'd just opt, if you really want TB back, to keep Blind Pick anyway. There are plenty of people who prefer it because of the raw fastness it provides.
To be honest I don't mind if blind pick stays but since Riot seems to be into this "Let's replace everything with the new 'ultimate' champion select system" plan, I thought it might be a good time to bring up this discussion.
woelmuis (EUW)
: Blind pick forces you to play different roles. This is not only mandatory for beginning players to have a greater understanding of the game, but also for veterans it is important to not always play the same role. If you play more roles, you have a better understanding of the game. If you understand the game better, you will win more, if you win more, you enjoy the game more, therefore you play more. That means more money for Riot. More money for Riot means a better League of Legends, which is good for all of us. Don't look down on Blind Pick. Don't look down on us blind pickers who do the hard work, making this game a better place. Instead, take responsibility, and join that queue for a beautiful blind pick game. Blind pick just is the best queue for everyone. Without a doubt. You say it has TREMENDOUS problems, yet you only mention one, as the "biggest one". It seems to me this is your only problem with blind pick. Blind pick however does not have problems. It has worked for around 6 years now, and there are more people than ever playing it. The problems you see are your problems, not blind pick problems.
> Blind pick forces you to play different roles. This is not only mandatory for beginning players to have a greater understanding of the game, but also for veterans it is important to not always play the same role. If you play more roles, you have a better understanding of the game. If you understand the game better, you will win more, if you win more, you enjoy the game more, therefore you play more. That means more money for Riot. More money for Riot means a better League of Legends, which is good for all of us. I can only partly agree on this. Obviously it's better for everyone to eventually master more roles. But it should not be forced. It should come naturally from each individual's choice. This is my opinion and we do not have to agree. Yet what is important is that, by taking Team Builder away, we are left we no choice. There currently is no mode in the game that can ensure a position and a champion which is very important for both learning and player experience. (I am always talking about normal here). > Don't look down on us blind pickers who do the hard work, making this game a better place. Instead, take responsibility, and join that queue for a beautiful blind pick game. Blind pick just is the best queue for everyone. Without a doubt. Hahahaha! >You say it has TREMENDOUS problems, yet you only mention one, as the "biggest one". It seems to me this is your only problem with blind pick. Blind pick however does not have problems. I consider the problems of blind pick quite obvious so I didn't go into detail with them. But you are right. What is obvious to me might not be obvious to you so here are a few reasons: * You secure your position (by convention) by typing your position. The first one who types it, gets the position assuming the convention is respected. Just that single fact causes many more problems. * The above convention favors people with faster computers and connection and as such is not fair for everyone. Very important. * The above convention, (being a convention) might not be respected by everyone, leading to drama and flaming that can continue in the game. * There is nothing that enforces this convention. In fact the only way to "enforce" it is by frowning upon people who do not follow the convention when in the end the system was not designed with any convention in mind. * Who is at fault here? The person who doesn't follow a convention and uses the system as intended (Blind Pick) or the people who scream at the person for not following their convention? There is no answer. Respecting community conventions is important but we cannot blame someone for using a system as intended. This ambiguity leads to constant drama. * The way the lobby is implemented further complicates things as in your screen your message might appear to be typed first. * The lack of design for assigning positions leads literally to chaos which makes for a terrible experience for new players. * New players are not aware that "positions" exist while more experienced players scream to them for things they assume they should know. Team Builder makes that explicit and teaches new players what is what. * This very convention contradicts with Blind Pick. Blind Pick is Blind Pick not "Faster-who-types-gets-and-rest-fill-the-roles-of-current-meta Pick". * The community invented a convention to make the Blind pick system function "properly". This shows that the community agrees that the system as it is does not adequately serve their most common use case: Pick a position and a champion. > It has worked for around 6 years now, and there are more people than ever playing it. The problems you see are your problems, not blind pick problems. Of course it has worked for so long. When a game is at it's early stages, simplicity is important. Blind Pick is the obvious default-no-rules choice and simple systems are known for their longevity. But the game has evolved. Riot and everyone understands Blind Pick has problems and that's why it will replaced by the new dynamic queue system.
MAestRIO (EUW)
: Fast games would also be my reason for blind pick. I don't play it mostly though, just when some of my friends are playing (they don't like the waiting time of draft pick, and definitely not in the new system). I just like draft for the lesser drama. But you can't ever guarantee old Teambuilder to be just as fast. If, by removing blind pick, you make the target group playing Team Builder bigger, you still don't make the mid/top <> support/adc differential smaller. Actually, you might just even make it bigger, since I can imagine a lot of supports picking TB for fastness and a lot of mids not picking it for the same reason. So, in short. You can't really make it go as fast, I think.
Maybe it won't be as fast as Blind pick but it would be faster nonetheless and it won't have all the lobby drama so it's a win-win situation the way I see it.
: You seem to be very certain about the fact that it will drop queue times, where did you get this information? U can not know for certain that the queue times will drop that much, because blind pick went fast and most of the time the one that was too late in calling their pick went on to play support. That does not mean that those people will queue up as support in team builder, so you have absolutely no good reason to assume the queue times will drop. I mean of course they would drop a little cause there is a queue less, but this could be a minor improvement cause support is just not popular. Maybe I'm in the wrong, but then you will have to deliver some proof of your assumption instead of just letting your mind work and then take it for a certain truth in a discussion. EDIT: Not picking any sides here, I mainly play draft, but I just dislike your way of conducting this discussion.
>I mean of course they would drop a little cause there is a queue less It is not nuclear science. You said it yourself. > you will have to deliver some proof of your assumption That's the whole reason this discussion exists and why I am asking Riot as well. That's the only way to really know. But as you said yourself, it is obvious that the queue times will drop. > take it for a certain truth in a discussion For me it's very clear that if you go from 2 channels to 1 while having the same input then you will end up with twice the traffic on that single channel. Everything you said about people not going support is valid but you will still have twice the traffic. Obviously things are more complex. Twice the traffic does not guarantee that the replacer system will have as fast queues as Blind pick. But that is besides the point. Blind pick has obvious flaws that Team builder fixes and on top of that you get faster queues. The way I see it, It's a win-win situation. I hope we can agree on this. > just dislike your way of conducting this discussion. That is fine. You cannot please everyone.
: if you remove blind pick I don't even want to play LoL anymore, teambuilder's BORING, blind pick is there to get into a game right away not sit there for several minutes doing shit all.
What if you could start a team builder game as fast as blind pick then?
: Well this discussion won't get us a solution tbh. I don't want to be forced to Play Teambuilder and you won't want to be forced to Play Blind pick. Let's leave it at that.
> [{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=ln3nNJrX,discussion-id=W1Evs9qe,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-26T12:46:18.860+0000) > > Well this discussion won't get us a solution tbh. > I don't want to be forced to Play Teambuilder and you won't want to be forced to Play Blind pick. > > Let's leave it at that. Sure but again I have to remind you that the main reason you dislike Team builder is waiting times which would be gone if Team builder replaced Blind Pick. Also "Team Builder" is not the point here. Any system that solves the problems that Blind Pick has will do and it seems that we are getting a system like that and will replace Blind Pick. So case closed.
Infernape (EUW)
: _**"PBE FIRST, NORMAL DRAFT SOON AFTER, RANKED AND BLIND PICK LATER DURING THE 2016 SEASON"**_ http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/2016-season-update/new-champ-select.html scroll all the way down to the bottom.
Excellent. I hadn't noticed that. Thank you. :) I was afraid we were stuck with Blind Pick but that changes it. Consider this case closed.
: Waiting times. Want to play out of meta? Nope, people need to accept you first which won't happen in most cases. Toxicity. People expect you to do well in the role you chose, and if you don't, you will get flamed.
>Waiting times. The reason the waiting times were so big was because Blind Pick and Team builder used to co-exist. By replacing Blind Pick with Team builder (or another better system for that matter) would eliminate waiting times. >Want to play out of meta? Nope, people need to accept you first which won't happen in most cases. By having very short queue times in Team Builder (due to the reason stated above), making a team that defies the meta would be reasonable. In the end you can always queue up with friends that support your crazy combination. It is called Team Builder after all. :) > Toxicity. People expect you to do well in the role you chose, and if you don't, you will get flamed. Toxicity exists in the game in general. I don't think Team builder made it worse. In fact it's exactly the opposite. Blind pick caused huge drama pre-game when selecting champions/roles and in the worst cases that drama continued in the game. Team Builder eliminated that toxicity.
Smerk (EUW)
: There will be new champ select, just adjusted for blind pick, without bans and pick order
That's very good news. I didn't know about that. Could you provide the source please?
: The Problem is that I and a lot of other players dislike Teambuilder. Riot would replace Blind pick with a mode the majority dislikes.
> The Problem is that I and a lot of other players dislike Teambuilder. What is the reason you dislike Team builder?
: I would say the same about the obsolete Teambuilder mode. Let it rot there and Keep blind pick. As Support I usually didn't have to wait a long time to find a MATCH. It took ages to get 5 players. "We are searching for a jungler for 1 Minute now? I'm gonna leave, we won't get one anyway."
The idea is to replace Blind Pick with Team Builder. This would reduce Team Builder queue times by a lot as it would be the default mode for normal.
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Leonteus

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