: {{champion:57}} support is excellent if used as counter-pick. His W point & click root makes short work of enemy short ranged adcs that get disgusting mobility in turn. If you see enemy pick {{champion:67}} , {{champion:236}} , {{champion:429}} or {{champion:145}} , the tree is a pretty solid option to say NO to that.
Yeah it's very reliable, but other than that he doesn't really do the job better than any other tank supports atm. Would be cool to give him some extra tools to set him apart.
: he need a big rework, that make him stronger. he did 0 dmg, and his ultimate one of the worst in the game, if not the worst. Maybe he need at least one stun, not only root. And his passive need to deal at least additional dmg, not only heal.
Agreed, I want QoL improvements on his ult - but the ability was pretty great in pro before he went out of the meta. And yeah, I wish his kit just did a few more supporty things
: I mean a lot of this is probably unnecessary... remember naut went support without any of this, he just needs a good meta, someone high profile willing to try him out, maybe a few regular buffs and he could very possibly become a support.
Exactly, I think he's pretty close already. Would love to see him become a more intuitive and fun support though.
Rioter Comments
Omega Bot (EUW)
: Tank meta wasn't *that* bad
I like Toplane tanks, support mages and bot lane hypercarries, This just works for the game, and creates a balanced meta where all roles are well defined. Cons: adc can be too strong and tank vs tank can be boring. I personally had no issue with these things, but many people complained. However complaints about these things increased over time, reaching a peak with the utterly atrocious Ardent meta. Riot were so concerned about Ardent meta that they wanted to change the meta lots, but they made terrible choices that have drastically hurt the game, idk what they were thinking. Nerfing Ardent was enough to bring botlane power down, but they went too far by nerfing adcs. Then turning bruisers into hyper carries via the frankly ridiculous Conqueror completely destroyed toplane tanks, meaning that if you want tanks in your team you have to have a tank support, or tank jungle or both. But they also let bruisers keep way too much tankiness via bone plating, for reasons I cannot explain. Then midlaners got more tankiness also to compensate for the loss of toplane tanks with Aftershock champs Lissandra and Sylas, which really provide something that a midlaner has no right to. I loved the meta where everyone wanted to pick a tank much more than the meta where so many champions are tankier than they should be, for the damage they deal. This is keeping hypercarry marksmen down in the meta as they barely do more damage but they are so much squishier - this is the reason that they were completely unviable for a while. Adcs MUST have the most dps in the game, or they do not make sense. No one wants to play something so squishy that doesn't even do more damage than melees like Irelia and Yasuo. Notice how many adc players have been having such a painful few years, how many have switched to top and jungle, how many have quit the game. If you love to play ranged carries, you'd probably have a waaaay better time in Dota 2 at this point, where there are many great ones.
: I get it all. But I am also a very quiet player. I usually don't talk to my teammates at all, and even if I try to explain things to them Usually I get massively flamed for used saying 1 sentence. Usually I do this after getting harassed in champion select. "Why pick Nunu support?? Troll!" My usual response: "I have 60% winrate on Nunu support in 30 games, I do fine just let me solo dragon at lvl 5". And then the massive flame happens and I have to mute half my team. There's no way to communicate when your off-meta.
Please take this following advice: stop caring about ranked. It's a trap, and when you start to care more about your rank than the game it causes depression, because you're no longer actually having fun, and you cut off from more and more stuff you enjoy in life. You will never even be satisfied with your rank, maybe for a little when you reach a goal and I'll agree reaching that goal feels great for a bit, but not worth if it compromises your happiness. And then within days you'll just want the next goal. Also no one will ever care or respect what rank you are, unless you're super high elo and you could put it in your CV. Play normals, enjoy the game and play with friends. Play ranked with friends only, never fall into the trap of grinding alone. I can see that it's really not right for you, you're just like me :)
: Super scared of Getting banned, help me!?
There is so much to learn for you from this NB3 vs Nubrac situation, so here's my take on it all. If you're picking something off-meta, first question to ask yourself - 'are most people going to hate this, or be triggered by the sight of this?' or Nunu this will more likely be the case than for most champs despite his viability at support. This is due to the historic association of DIsco Nunu with griefers. If you think the answer is yes, then you're going to need your teammate's permission imo. F. The reason is that if they really don't want you to do it, but you do it anyway, then in a way that is griefing. Not on purpose, but imo it's still a form of griefing. This is where Nubrac went badly wrong. I sympathise with him, because he has no ill intent at all. He just wants to do this thing, and enjoys playing this so much. He's proud to have invented something cool, and it's so mean how NB3 acted, My biggest issue with NB3 is how cruel he can be, I really used to like him :/ He also deserves a penalty and he knows it, but Riot have become afraid to penalise toxicity because they think we love it or smthn, and we'll lash out in protection of our favorite asshole streamers. Which ofc would happen. Just look at how the community reacted against NB3, rallying together with their pitchforks and torches demanding NB3 be permabanned. RIot is terrified of having this behaviour pointed at them. So where does Nubrac's griefing begin? Well, he sat in midlane, abandoned bot and purposefully refused to communicate. So, why is this super problematic? Well when you're playing something weird, you have to consider the comfort and happiness of your teammates, and Nubrac refused to do this. His reasoning was that he cba to deal with people every game and it's not his responsibility to appease his teammates as long as he's trying to win. This is not unreasonable logic by any means. It only becomes griefing as soon as two other players in the game started pleading with him to alter his actions, and he completely ignores them. Nubrac's crime was refusing to communicate to the extent of griefing. Nubrac furiously defied this, saying that it cannot be griefing because he simply was not intending to grief. However most people learn in their lives that sometimes you can mean no ill will and still hurt someone. You cannot then tell that person that they are not hurt, on the basis that it wasn't your intention. It is still your fault and you are indebted to apologise anyway. Be better than this and you should be fine. Bad idea to do a double offmeta pick - Nubrac not only playing Teemo in support but also doing heavy roaming support that changed the conventional exp balance in the team, to the distress of his teammates, especially the midlaner. No midlane main, especially in higher elo, is going to tolerate someone stealing their solo exp, without even asking permission. It was so disrespectful. Meanwhile the adc had picked a champ that did not survive well in the 1v2 - NB3 made the good point that the adc would have picked something better at 1v2 had he known what was coming. He also made a bad start because he started the game mid saying nothing, so everyone automatically assumed he was running it down from min 1, they did not know the strat. No one had any idea that he was trying to win until he stated,I think - I guess by that point the tilt was already set in. NB3 was the last player to leave, I believe. You have to consider how this appeared. Finally, Nubrac did act poorly about this. He responded to NB3 with a lot of toxicity, and when discussing NB3 on his stream, his debate technique was atrocious. Constantly dodging any fair and good points made against him and repeating the same arguments over and over. He certainly sounded like a man with waning confidence in his own beliefs, which makes sense because he was heavily proven wrong in many regards. While NB3 firmly admitted regret towards flaunting his fame at Nubrac, Nubrac himself refused to show any remorse or signs of admitting mistake, and at the end of it all he looked like a fool. I sincerely hope that once his ban has come to an end, Nubrac has some perspective and learns from the points made against him, so that he can play his niche pick in peace. I genuinely like to see offmeta picks, and I love playing Teemo support myself, he is one of my favourite champs and I always thought Teemo support, while not great, was always underrated. Sorry this became a literal essay, my ideas just started flowing.
Sunwise (EUNE)
: just won a ranked game after afk but took no LP because of a F-ing Mosquito
I believe all afk penalties should be contestable for this reason. I don't expect anyone to appeal an afk if there wasn't a legitimate reason. The support team could check these appeals and it should be very immediately obvious if an afk was a ragequit or not. I'd even hasten to say that most afks are not on purpose and many are actually Riot's fault for their game not working properly - and there is nothing more annoying.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: > It is v**ery well agreed** now that Aftershock is extremely problematic on Lux, I disagree, some people like to say it, but i think they're still living in the past. > particularly in high elo and pro. Yes, it is still useable in high elo and pro, but i don't think it applies to you. > In combination with her new W priority, she becomes impossible to close down and burst yes, I've seen people rather agree that is the actual issue with her.
Ok, you don't have to be so rude/mean. Basically the way I see it, if LoL devs are fine with us having utility mages that are virtuatlly impossible to close down and kill, which should be the key weakness of Lux and Yuumi (as well as there being tanks that can oneshot squishy carries) then I'm not ok playing this game anymore. The reason I'm on the boards all day is because I either get listened to by RIot or I quit. Which is fine tbh, because I also love playing Dota2, not that you give a shit. Sorry Anyway thanks for joining the discussion :)
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Lux is artillery mage. If he takes aftershock, more likely than not there are many divers or assassins who can easly get to her. Also, AOE Teamcomps. While it is, problematic, it still comes down to lack of resistance in minor runes, since let's be honest, by 10 minute mark most games get decided badly. Sylas a class of it's own...that's one guy i don't want to discuss, because in my eyes his kit is broken(altho, it's possible to deal with it). Well..fiddle sadly needs the aftershock. It's only thing that keeps him somewhat in the game.
I think the extra compensating resist would need to come from base stat buffs. And they definitely need to deal with Fiddle somehow, but it seems the LoL devs are pretty clueless about what to do with him. Probably just needs some QoL improvements for jungling, I think maybe they should increase his W slow or maybe give it some max %hp damage on creeps.
: I can't think of 1 occasion where riot have listened to the community :P Besides Zac ult
Disagree, they do it all the time! Often takes a really long time, but the devs take a lot from reddit and boards, I think. And why wouldnt they, its easier than coming up with their own ideas, which they're not great at doing tbh. All the best changes to league that have ever happened were community suggested I think. Riot dont have an IceFrog, so they depend on the community for ideas. I have so many great ideas though, so I really hope they hire me :D
: Bard problem is his range. The popular supports outrange him and more mobile. His q is too slow. But .... as a bard your task is not getting ahead early. Your primary task is to make an 5v5 teamfight to a 3v5 and 2v5 fights, which is super easy to win for a half decent team. You only need lv6 for it, and wait for the right opportunity. Yes, bard requires a lot of practice and waiting. People hate both. Overall bard does not require any buffs, and nerfs cannot hurt him as long as the ulti disables enemies for a forever 2.5 sec.
Thanks for responding as a player of Bard! So are you saying you think it's best if he remains a niche pick for OTPs?
RayleighTT (EUNE)
: bard is already overpowered in damage , nothing need to be buffed ,there are champions who people not like to play and ain't that popular ,that dosn't mean that hero should get buffed.
Fair enough, starting to think giving him a fun new skin might be enough care for him - someone suggested Astronaut Bard, which would be awesome! As I said, my issue is not with the champ simply having low play rate. Bard is by far my favorite of all underplayed champs, I think he's so cool and great for the game.
Player 00 (EUW)
: I would give NB a permaban so he would learn that the world doesn't spin around him and that he is a lot lot less important than he thinks he is. But that is just me hating him, I also agree that would be a distasteful thing to do, even to a scum like him.
It's totally fine for you to hate him, and great if you can admit that he may not deserve the penalty you might give him. I hate all the big streamers who propogate toxicity in the community every single day on twitch. I don't think he's even in the top 10 most toxic LoL streamers, but it is the reason I stopped watching NB3, and stick to watching Annie Bot and a few others. So many people watch these people that Riot are afraid to deal with them, because they know how much backlash there would be - however I do not think this ok, and they need to take a stand against toxicity for the sake of the players. Its almost as if theyre just conceding because they think the community is irredeemably toxic. Not only does it not need to be, but their continuous inaction is so much to blame.
DeCoqq (EUW)
: Team can buy only one supp item. Problem solved.
Maybe but there's actually a huge reason they haven't done that yet - potential griefing. This change would bring back Disco Nunu in full force, he would instabuy the support item, drastically reducing his teams win chance in an instant. Fair counterpoint to this though: if a player wants to grief a game then that team will lose regardless. For ranked it will not matter, but normals will be total chaos. They'd have to make it so you can only buy the support item if you get the role in champ select. Problem then is when people want to swap roles. They will have change swapping so it actually swaps your given role in client, which is actually a %%%%ing great idea holy shit that would fix the problem and would fix funnelling too omg I'm such a clever boi
: Astronaut Bard maybe? or Kung Fu Bard? He does need a new skin his look is a bit rustic now but it would have to be something unique
Astro Bard is genius!! He already moves a lot like Astronautilus and people would love more of that skinline. Superb idea really, you should tweet it to Riot
: If you think Bard needs a buff you're not playing him right...
I agree he's fine, but he deserves a little attention. Maybe they should buff his skin collection!
: Wheres the option for "Nothing" I don't like getting half hp'd by a Q auto attack at level 2 by Bard.
You're totally right, I should have put an option for no buff! I don't think he needs a buff, and neither has anyone else so far. He just needs a little lovin' Although, I kinda like it when Bard is top tier, because he's really cool. One of the most fun and best designed champions to date, the game is so much better for him being in it.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: I don't think Lux is exactly what i would call a good argument to nerf Aftershock. Lux isn't even that great of an aftershock user, only a single hard to hit ability, if she misses it she has no keystone. For lower elo players it's even a mistake to run it, Comet would be much better.
It is very well agreed now that Aftershock is extremely problematic on Lux, particularly in high elo and pro. In combination with her new W priority, she becomes impossible to close down and burst, which is supposed to be her greatest weakness. The extent to which Aftershock allows Lux support (same as with Fiddlesticks, but hes not as good) to mitigate her own potential to be picked off is completely unacceptable as a mage support. It also destroys the viability of the other enchantress supports by comparison, only Yuumi is similarly abhorrent in the extent of her near invulnerability. LoL devs are doing a crazy thing here, basically.
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: Not really. Only thingd I can think of are neeko and lissandra. The rest are still quite vulnerable to burst
The ones that are too tanky because they already have sustain also currently includes Lux, Sylas, Fiddlesticks and formerly Ryze (shields gone, W root removed so hes barely even a battlemage anymore, which is very interesting)
: The teemo should get unbanned. Sorry but I had to comment that
I was so willing to agree with this, it really seemed like it was unfair. However I'm listening to him debate with Nightblue3 right now and he's actually extremely arrogant and self-righteous. He has no respect whatsoever for his teammates. He believes that just because he's not intending to do harm that he must not be causing any harm. It was exposed that he continued to sit in midlane despite the midlaner begging him to leave. NB3 probably still deserves a penalty for being extremely toxic, but they discussed that he was actually thr last player on the team to dc, and he's explaining himself to Nubrac really well right now. Well worth watching the VOD This whole thing is super interesting. NB3 is the toxic one, and the one that deserves a penalty. Nubrac should still probably be unbanned, but his logic is horrendous. I may even label what he did as 'unintentional griefing' if that even makes sense, or could even be considered as bad as griefing. NB3 also decided, and thoroughtly affirmed, that he regretted trying to use his power to threaten someone and would never do it again.
: Perfection!
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: adding extra usable resistance to minor runes instead of that conditioning piece of shit would incentivize mages to actually abandon that runes. Right now it's the only reasonable option if you don't want to get squashed and even then it's conditional to actually hitting your spell and it not being on cooldown
Agreed, part if this is that mages are no good if they're as squishy as marksmen but we dont want them to be too tanky either. A little compensation is a really great idea
M3GTRDragon (EUNE)
: mages, yes. battlemages, no, they are made to be vulnerable to dps damage
Yeah good point but all the battle mages have huge tools already to help them against burst, and Aftershock is making them way too good in this aspect.
Omega Bot (EUW)
: maybe a small stat buff to bring back the interest ? nothing too fancy, maybe a +5 ms (he stole it from irelia) ?
Honestly I really like that idea. I too suspect he's actually really viable already, even in pro probably
Crisp Mood (EUNE)
: Aftershock Sylas is a huge problem.Broken champ comfortably sitting at 41% winrate is plat+ rito please nerf him.Picking Sylas in soloq should be bannable until they fix him. Joking aside riot should change aftershock before they butcher lux because of it.
%%%%ing this. Sylas and Lux are both in a total mess, and Aftershock is hugely at fault. And I too am really concerned that they'll nerf Lux rather than Aftershock, thats a huge part of why I'm pushing so hard for this. I think its awesome that Lux support is viable in pro, and she'd still be good with Guardian.
: Don't act clever bro.. This just aint the situation for it.
I'm just interested and I have an opinion, like everyone else. I think its a good opportunity for discussing the rights of streamers, and how these situations should be met. This stuff happens a hell of a lot on twitch
Rioter Comments
Player 00 (EUW)
: I mean, I don't care if Riot doesn't respond back to me 'cus I was gonna ignore what they would have to say anyway. But I just hate it when people get special treatment from companies that offer their products to every one simply because of some dumb reasons. If they can't treat all of their player base equally then f*ck.
You're right! I completely agree that streamers deserve equal treatment. The way I see it, however, is that streamers need a measured penalty, designed to inflict an equally severe detriment to what a player might receive. Therefore, a month long ban for a player might equate to 2 week streaming ban for a fulltime streamer. And I certainly think it would be an immense overreaction for NB3 to receive a permanent ban, especially given the context. I sincerely hope people take the time to cool off a little over this, and realise that it doesn't need to be such a huge deal. As I am saying, I know exactly how all of this can easily be resolved peacefully and constructively for all involved, including for us - the consumers; and we're the most important ones in all of this. Enjoy the rest of your evening :)
Rioter Comments
Player 00 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Memuru,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=xVJl0pYm,comment-id=000200090000,timestamp=2019-06-16T18:10:05.219+0000) > > I said he deserves to be punished, but a fair punishment. Yall are getting way to carried away right now with your pitchforks and torches. He will likely apologise to the Teemo, having learned that he was not actually griefing. And I insist that he's much better than he was 5 years ago, but naturally the bulk of the community will only see him when he %%%%s up. That's bullshit and you know it is, unless you are a hardcore Nightblue fan, in which case get the hell off the computer it's past your bed time and you weren't supposed to be playing League you aren't yet old enough. He didn't think the Teemo was griefing, he had a bad game, and the Teemo was a perfect target for him to vent hiss anger off, and since Nightblue, a piece of **** that he is, in his vacuum sealed head, thought to himself "It's not my fault I am playing like trash. It's this god damn's Teemo's fault." and then flamed and went afk.
He did a shitty thing and needs a penalty. Sorry for saying this but you have joined a witch hunt. I am pleading that people calm down and have some perspective, as the handling of this case could be hugely impactful on the future of the platform, in context of League and in general.
: Making the game more bot-focused would lead to this : Whoever has the better ADC player wins the game, if both teams are roughly on the same level when it comes to peeling/protecting/locking down enemies. We already had this meta once, the infamous "ardent-meta". I was playing bruisers in those hellish 6 months, and I felt like I had ZERO impact over the game. I could be 10/0, enemy kog'maw would just click me while having 4K hp + shields thanks to lulu/janna, the tank locked me down, and the 2 item 2/2 ADC 6 shot me while I couldn't even escape CC. I had to play peel champs, but I refused to. I felt like a slave to botlane, as a jungler or toplaner. What I did was irrelevant. I had good ADC I won the game. Enemy had better ADC I lost the game. Maybe this is fun in pro-play, with nicely coordinated teams, but not in my shitty diamond ELO. Because there will be a skill gap between the 2 bot-lanes, and losing the game because of ONE person, is toxic. Nowadays you can pretty much carry from every role, making playing more enjoyable for non-marksman mains. If Riot decided to make it so the bot-marksman is the only viable carry role, I'd simply quit LOL, after investing roughly 7K games over the course of 8+ years, and spending $3K. Simply wouldn't be enjoyable.
It's really great what you're saying, because I think its really crucial to the issue! My vision for the ideal state of botlane is for adcs to have extremely good scaling potential, but they cant do it unless their teammates support them really well. This is what adc mains miss so much, and is how adcs always were before the... dark times *shudder* The Ardent Censer crisis really really %%%%ed all of this up. It made botlane so dominant that Riot knew they needed to fix it, and never let it happen again. The meta was atrocious, and they knew it could lead to game death. So their plan was to bring power to melee adcs in top lane, while destroying the power of adcs and enchanters. I believe this has also been a total mess, and has been so much more detrimental to me personally, as I exclusively play toplane tanks and enchanter supports. The game has been very hard for me to play ever since, and I'm delighted that things are starting to return to how they were. The changes to the game stripped so much diversity in roles. We have been left with the same boring support tanks, and carries in all 3 lanes, which I find to be awful for the game. Must say the adc item changes were so stupid, and I would have never let it happen. I would like fighter champs to lose a lot of power, hurting them heavily in pro but they are %%%%ing ridiculously OP for climbing in solo queue. With heavy nerfs, they will still be relevent in solo queue for anyone who likes to climb by winning toplane through skill. Its so hard though, because while saying this I must concede that toplane tank vs tank matchups are super boring to most people. Actually that's what's so great about Dota 2, where both teams will have a tank offlane, but they do not face eachother in laning phase - if you do not know, the tank will face the carry duo on both sides, which sounds weird but its amazing for this reason.
: > The Lethal Tempo rate is just my rough estimate based on the pick rate of the champs that primarily take it, factoring the champs that sometimes take it. I'm concerned that none of the top 7 picked adcs take it, but overall its not actually that underused. I think Fleet gets picked more with crit, but I'm not totally certain. Its worth considering how much of the pick rate is just Ezreal, who uses a almost unique Keystone. yeah ez does mess this up a bit and fleet has risen in popularity recently overtaking lethal tempo but this is more a product of meta as theres more enchanters and mage supports these days, so it pays to get that safety in lane... but this still doesn't mean that lethal tempo needs buffs once the meta changes again we don't want it pushing out other options > still think that Hail of Blades isn't very interesting and is possibly the lowest value keystone atm. However I am open to this being resolved with minor changes. I forgot about Jhin, I do think it's cool on him. its about as intresting as lethal tempo, and there are some cool things you can do with it (Jayce can break the attack speed limit at level 1 with it for instance)… and its certainly not the least intresting or lowest value rune tbh (least intresting goes to aftershock, lowest value outside of pro play and very high elo tends to be unsealed spellbook). > I think it may be the case that Conq has the attributes of both skill lines, it increases burst a bit (though not nearly as much as a domination rune), but its main strength is its capacity to enable long drawn out fights (better than most other runes)… so while the argument could be made of it straddling the line its definetly precision (hell press the attack is closer to domination than hail of blades... its got a lot of burst behind it) ___ thanks for the discussion as well, not every day you get a good and friendly discussion on here
Thank you especially for giving your insights as someone who likes HoB. I think your view could be really useful to balance team for maintaining and improving the keystone. I am aiming to get their recruitment to view my profile and read my ideas, as something of an audition :D Its a shame that there are not more friendly discussions here, I am seeing a lot of rage from people. However it is only my first day here and I will do whatever I can to continue to have a strong positive influence.
: They really need to do 1 of the following changes... or even both Aftershock (R1): Base resistances granted reduced by 50% for Ranged Champions. Aftershock (R1): Duration of Resistances changed to 1.5 seconds for ranged champions, down from 2.5 seconds. (Melee champions still receive 2.5 seconds of resistances)   Aftershock is intended to give tankier champions a little defensive steroid when they enter combat. Lux and Lissandra are Mages... They are meant to be squishy and vulnerable if you close the gap on them... Getting 70 bonus armor and MR for landing one of their main spells removes the intended weakness from the champions. Thresh is another fine example of a champion who's weakness is covered up by Aftershock. He hooks at the wrong time? No problem he gets a massive defensive steroid and can walk out unpunished.
Exactly! Enough people have made this suggestion now that I'm going to pester LoL team until they see it! Also because I want them to hire me :D
Adamssohn (EUW)
: NB3 flamed in champ select & in-game, went afk (opened the game which is against Riot rules) Just because Teemo did a new strat which btw has an 80% Win rate in 50 games. Nb3 deserves 2 be punished the same goes for the Rioter. Nb3 will never change his behavior, he never did it in 5 years, so good luck with that.
I said he deserves to be punished, but a fair punishment. Yall are getting way to carried away right now with your pitchforks and torches. He will likely apologise to the Teemo, having learned that he was not actually griefing. And I insist that he's much better than he was 5 years ago, but naturally the bulk of the community will only see him when he %%%%s up.
: I think you are muss understanding something. They didnt nerf aftershock for tanks and buffed it for mages, it was the other way around. Tanks are way stronger now with aftershock if you compare it to prenerf aftershock. The problem is the base resistances are just too high. I mean come on 70 armor and mr on lvl1? The should just cut the basic resistance you get in half and maybe let it scale better with bonus mr armor and health. Imo this would solve the aftershock abuse on mages
Yeah maybe it is stronger now on tanks too, need to have a good look at the numbers. But yeah exactly, the base resist is absurd. Halfed on ranged champs would be ideal, and then I'd take away Sylas' stun, which I don't think he'd miss too much beyond losing Aftershock.
: I think a hand written warning is out of order. He's just an ordinary League player like all people and should get the same punishment as everyone if he is getting punished. It's not Leagues fault that hes a streamer and even if he wanted to play more League he just would go on 1 of his billion smurf accounts where he does his YT stomp Videos on. Also a written warning because he is a streamer is a stupid benefit for doing something that isn't even League related he could literally stream any other game and still do a decent amount of money.
Yes that is the reason its a very contentious and complicated issue. You have to account for several things: the consequences of a ban are much more severe for a fulltime streamer. it is their life, and they do not yet have any legal protection whatsoever againt these things, hopefully they will soon. And finally, its possible that game companies will use the same fairly intuitive logic as you and most other people Ive been talking to about this are using. They can abuse their power currently if they wish, with little regard to the impact on people's lives. I've read accounts of smaller full-time streamers having their channel die due to a 30 day ban from twitch, and this is similar. Pls find the OfflineTV podcast episode with ft. Destiny uploaded last week, if you're interested in the argument around streamers' rights and security. I'm the perfect person to discuss this I think, because I'm working on my dream to work with Riot LoL team and to also become a streamer :D
: Although its the unpopular opinion on the boards, all the pros and high elo players agree withn nb3. So it's not a bad thing. It's scummy how he got the guy banned by having a riot employee directly do it. But nubrac shouldn't be doing strats like that without his teammates permission.
Thanks for saying that. Idm really that my comment got downvoted, I've been able to explain my point to lots of people. I'm glad you and I are willing to ignore the hate bandwagon and look at things calmly and objectively :)
AiFted (EUW)
: i play quite a bit of adc's and i do prefer press the attack because it is more damage in a shorter time than leathal tempo. but lethal tempo has advantages especially early it helps you push the lane with increased attackspeed which gives you priority and in terms you can follow up on jungle skirmishes much more easily. Also, lethal tempo is a lategame rune and you can take it if you are favored, if not rather take press the attack so you can get better all-in damage or the healing rune that can help you against some poke damage. another reason why you don't see the immobile kog, twitch and jinx is yuumi + sivir/ezreal. you are already a sitting duck and the poke from 800 range is something you can't do much about in the early levels. if you want to play a hypercarry right now kaisa is pretty good, she is also pretty safe in the lategame with her ult and the ability to get zonyas + ga. in soloq most supports don't like to play enchanters, so playing kogmaw lategame is really hard compared to something like ezreal or kaisa, but he already can win most 2v2's, his earlygame damage is underrated, so give him a shot. jinx is played moderately and she is constantly on the top of certain tierlists, twitchs damage in the laningphase isn't that high; he needs to auto you 6 times, which usually doesn't happen in the laningphase, but his roams are great and therefore he is played in the jungle.
Great point, LT adcs are going to surely increase in popularity now with the rise of utility mages. Honestly I'm seeing great arguments that LT is still well balanced, so I'm fine with it left alone. Thjng is, theres a lot of disparity in the strength of keystones, for examples like Conq and Aftershock are ofc extremely strong, but DH and HoB are really weak. I kinda feel like LT is on the weaker side and could do with some QoL improvements at least, like reducing its activation time, but its really nbd right now. With the shifting botlane meta, its definitely best left alone until a much later date
AiFted (EUW)
: i think her passive damage needs to be nerfed, q+passive is so much damage and usually support sona doesn't get to build much ap, so why not increase the base damage lategame but dampen the scaling? i think it was lpl where they played the tk sona combo, that was just unfair at some point i dont mind those utility mages in the botlane, and i agree it is much more fun to see them in proplay, but i think yuumi's slow on her q should be lowered in the early laningphase. Her ability to setup sivir to hit her q 100% is so annoying in the early laningphase since she can navigate the q so well, even if she doesn't hit it you have to run away from it
Exactly! We're heading in a great direction with support meta and could have a lot of diversity again in pro, all we need is the small balance tweaks. I suspect Athenes is very overstatted atm
: Aftershock is fine on champions like {{champion:12}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:106}} ... You know.... champions the keystone is INTENDED FOR. Aftershock is **NOT FINE** on champions like {{champion:9}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:13}}   Aftershock will never be balanced until they make the following change - Aftershock (R1): Base resistances granted reduced by 50% for Ranged Champions.   So side by side comparison would look like this {{champion:111}} - Aftershock would grant 70 (+50% bonus armor) bonus armor + 70 (+50% bonus magic resistance) Magic Resist. {{champion:99}} - Aftershock would grant 35 (+50% bonus armor) bonus armor + 35 (+50% bonus magic resistance) Magic Resist.   If a ranged champion wants to get good benefit from Aftershock they should have to sacrifice damage and buy armor/mr items instead of building full damage and getting 70 armor and MR for landing their easy to land CC.   As for {{champion:412}} {{champion:497}} ... These champions can function well with Guardian. Rakan can also functional well with Summon Aery. Aftershock is just a crutch to cover up the ability to punish a bad Thresh player anyway.
Man I forgot about Fiddle, really hate it on him. Your solution is so good! I think it is exactly what they should do, and you're so right about Thresh and Rakan. Only problem is that it doesn't deal with Aftershock Sylas, which I'd really like to die. I guess he may be the exception that has to be nerfed by other means, maybe they should take away his stun
: I respect your opinion, but I wouldn't wanna see this happen. I feel that it'd be unhealthy for the game's balance, once again shifting the whole playstyle around bot, we'd get the "better bot wins" back again . It were toxic times if you ask me...
Understandable, but I think LoL is more fun when roles are a little more spread in carry priority, like how it used to be, and how it is in Dota. I think the game sucks when everyone can potentially be a carry, so I generally really dislike bruisers and Conq keystone. Its really not acceptable imo to have hypercarries in the toplane, although Riot have done this to make the game more fun for more people, which is fair. Bot carry should be for team's main dps, and I miss playing utility tank toplaners like Maokai and Nauti, who actually had a lot of skill expression and feel so strong in teamfights. I don't like being the damage dealer, I love setting up and peeling, top used to be my favorite place to do that, but now I have to play support. I don't really like warding, or being really low level, or having my power and positioning so limited.
: Well that is why i suggested taking off his partnership. It doesn't stop him from playing the game and it's still more effective than just a ban because changing an account makes the ban meaningless for a streamer. Getting a ban doesn't actually destroy the career of the streamer when league is concerned because it has to be an indefinite ban (ban on sight) to actually have an effect on their careers. There are plenty of streamers that have gotten permabans before and that hasn't stopped their careers because they can just make a new account. This is why the punishment has to be something that actually affects them, like taking away the partnership. Being toxic is against the requirements of a partner anyway so it's only natural that it would be taken away from him. By allowing him to continue as a partner, Riot effectively accepts and encourages his type of behavior.
Riot can't really do that this time, since they banned the Teemo. A 2 week ban would be fine this time, along with a warning, which would ofc be of the threat of heavier consequences if he does anything like this again, first of which being loss of partnership.
0megon (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Memuru,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=xVJl0pYm,comment-id=000200060000,timestamp=2019-06-16T09:44:22.446+0000) > > Dw, I believe he deserves a significant penalty. I am only making the point that a ban for a fulltime streamer is so much worse than people might realise, and its probably worse than he deserves imo. I would give him a 2 week ban from streaming LoL as well as a written warning. I think RIOT should sever all ties with him and revoke the partnerships they have, not invite him to any actions at least for some time untill he ,,reforms" himself. If he wants to stream let him, but if RIOT actually stands behind their summoners code and their proclaimed ,,toxic-free environment" they should not endorse people like NB3 in any way. Honestly their partnership program with twitch streamers is big joke. In my country there is a streamer that got banned from twitch for racism(racism connected to league) and he is still enjoying the benefits of league unlocked. Someone at RIOT should really rethink their ways around streamers to actually be in line with what they proclaim to want... This case is just extreme example, but it is not the only case of it...
If Riot give out too severe of a ban carelessly, it has a huge implication for other fulltime streamers and they have to respect that. I am adamant that he doesn't deserve a permaban. Anyway, its absolutely no where near as bad as what Tyler1 did to get banned, and he's still been worse than NB3 on a regular basis since he was unbanned. NB3 did a really shitty thing, but in part there was a misunderstanding, as he thought the guy was griefing but he was wrong. A lot of this has to do with the community stigma that already exists against NB3, which isn't totally unjust based on his history but I genuinely don't think he's that bad. If he's guilty of anything, it's being a salty LoL player, the kind you meet in every solo queue game, and the kind that everyone has found themselves being at some point or another if they play solo queue :D I do think purposefully getting someone banned by abusing your power as a popular streamer is %%%%ing atrocious behaviour, to be clear. If I ever get a job at Riot I promise I'll try to sort this shit out.
: Hypercarries are already having a big enough impact with the tools they are given now. They build lifesteal, they have no use for triumph. Conqueror is a slow and steady, sustained damage rune. Domination is all about burst. It doesn't fit. Triumph was made for champs without lifesteal, that are somewhat tanky so that 12 or whatever it is % health back actually matters. Jinx heals more with 1 auto, than what her triumph would give. About the 20% lethal tempo pick-rate, yea - it's called diversity. Botlane is the only one that doesn't have it. Since everyone lost their shits when ziggs/heimer/swain and yasuo were viable botlane picks, now we're back to the good ol' right click ranged champs. Is 20% hypercarry pick-rate not enough ? Wouldn't it mean that they are busted, if no other pick was viable ? Everyone would be forced to play a lethal tempo hypercarry. **** So basically, if I got this right, you wanna make hypercarries have a higher play-rate, and nerf the shit out of conq user bruisers, making their laning phase squishier. Yea...thanks but no.
Thank you for your response, you make good points. Just to answer your summary, you're right that is what I'm saying. I'm not sure if it would be good or not, but I have reason to think it may be, so I'd be very interested in testing it out if I had the chance.
: > Statistically only around 20% of games in solo queue include an adc using Lethal Tempo, which is worryingly low for what should be the best keystone for a late game dps. The ones that depend on it (Ashe and Kog) are severely underplayed. Maybe just QoL improvements rather than a buff. but even then that's 20% of games with only one keystone, that's a very large % espessaly as that's including both crit and non crit adcs. if you just look at crit adcs its by far the most poplar rune. > sorry but literally two champions take Hail of Blades (Xin and Rek), and it is very easily replaceable on both of them in my opinion. Both are good with Conqueror but they like the other Domination runes (solved by my next suggestion), and many Xin players prefer Phase Rush (as do I personally). actually you would be surpised. firstly a surprising amount of champions take hail of blades {{champion:268}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:421}} have all be known to take the rune, with xin and rek only entering the meta with the rune (phase rush xin took a nerf a while back with the changes to celerity which knocked it out of the meta, and conqueror rek stacks too slowly for what reksai wants early game she wants burst not dps)… its certainly not the rarest rune nor is it the least useful > About Conq in Precision vs Domination, I'll repeat what I said to the last kind replier: Conqueror was designed to be about extended fights, but it's really about getting an advantage through aggression and commitment. I personally think the name Conqueror describes it brilliantly, and Conquering and Dominating are ofc almost synonymous. its not about the name its about what it does. each tree has a certain aspect which it governs runes all have to fit into that architype. domination is about burst and target selection, its about getting on top of a champion and killing them in the shortest time possible, were as precision is all about long fights and keeping you in the fight dealing damage continuously. conquerer needs time to stack up its actually not very good on champions who just burst a target and walk away like most assasins (kat and akali are exceptions as they tend to stay in fights for the long haul). so its a poor domination rune but a perfect precision rune. > I agree that tenacity is strong, but I still don't think mages really ever want it, compared to a third Domination rune that is much higher value for them, imo. but they get triumph, conqueror, and coup de grace which is good on them. you also have to remember this is exclusively melee mages not ranged mages, so they have to dive into the back line. at which point 30% tenacity is invaluable and synergies with conquerer better than any domination rune. > disagree about bruisers, I think Alacrity and Coup de Grace are super high value for most bruisers, with Triumph, Tenacity, Bloodline and Last stand all being great options too! Even currently, bruisers will sometimes go Domination secondary, and I find that much more fun, and more balanced towards how they should feel to play. Many people may still choose resolve second, but they would be sacrificing precision in doing so, so it's still an excellent balancing nerf imo. Primary Domination runes may indeed be stronger for Conqueror users than Precision is, but I really believe that the Domination runes align more with the Conqueror style of play, but that is because I think Conqueror itself is more Domination aligning. I realise it may be the case that Conqueror has almost equal attributes of Precision and Domination, making this a little complicated, but I think putting it in Domination would be healthier for the reasons I explained. except that isn't how things would go. while those precision runes are nice they don't stand up to resolve runes... bruisers have to have survivability in order to do their job, without it they tend to die. more so resolve synergies with conqueror better than the other options, bone plating keeps you alive in fights and gives you protection in trades for you to stack conqueror up, while rejuvenation synergies with conquerors sustain as well as any built in sustain. ] bone plating and rejuvenation are perfect runes for bruisers, while in the precision tree its only the tenacity rune that they really care much about... triumph is nice but relies on getting the kill not helping getting them, and bruisers don't actually need the damae the third row gives, they've got enough as is. so ultimately the meta would just swap to domination and resolve. and because that's even more damage and survivability from that combonation than precision and resolve that causes bruisers to become even worse than they are now and would frankly further kill tanks. so conquerer is better In precision in both a logical and balance point of view
You make very good points, I cant disagree with any of it. The Lethal Tempo rate is just my rough estimate based on the pick rate of the champs that primarily take it, factoring the champs that sometimes take it. I'm concerned that none of the top 7 picked adcs take it, but overall its not actually that underused. I think Fleet gets picked more with crit, but I'm not totally certain. Its worth considering how much of the pick rate is just Ezreal, who uses a almost unique Keystone. I still think that Hail of Blades isn't very interesting and is possibly the lowest value keystone atm. However I am open to this being resolved with minor changes. I forgot about Jhin, I do think it's cool on him. It seems to me like there are pros and cons to both Precision Conq and Domination Conq and I may very well be wrong in my predictions. I have one additional point: I think it may be the case that Conq has the attributes of both skill lines, and this may be part of the issue with bruisers. Conq enables its users to have more sustain damage as well as more burst damage. This makes sense, since bruisers are basically adc assassin tanks ( I hate them but they exist because they're fun to play and to watch). Either way, I'm still interested in the notion of moving it to Domination, and I would love to test it out with LoL team if given the opportunity, to really find out for sure if it could be good for the game. (Btw, red Conq symbol would look sick) (Btw2, Swampert is my fave mon, and thanks for discussing with me :D)
: This is maybe what is going to happen. But we don't know how will Riot rework Udyr- how much he will change. If it would be only VU (which i think would be awesome!) SGU wouldn't be changed. They can improve SGU for examle: When Udyr is doing some stance it will have those effects that you can see on SGU login screen- how his hair would move change-mor effects to the tiger etc. you can see it all in login screen :D, all the effects that SGU does not have are in login screen (practicaly) Sorry for my grammar mistakes :) I wouldn't mind if you would correct me. Have a great day! -{{champion:77}} Igracek fousac
Thanks for your great response, I really appreciate it :D This is my first day on boards but I'm kinda having a million ideas at once and I'd like a job at Riot xD
Corvin0716 (EUNE)
: > I strongly believe he needs someone from Riot to tell him personally that his behaviour is out of order, so he can be better. I think anyone would agree that successful streamers like him do deserve to get a personal warning rather than be slapped with a penalty, since he does it full time and a penalty will bear major financial consequences to him. Why would a guy who makes a lot of money and I mean A LOT OF MONEY from playing the game deserve more special treatment than a schoolboy who spent his limited money on his account? If a kid gets carried away a little after a bad day he loses his account, his skins, his money, all of his effort. That is okay but if a rich streamer is purposefully toxic and breaches many rules, he just deserves a second chance? Wtf
Dw, I believe he deserves a significant penalty. I am only making the point that a ban for a fulltime streamer is so much worse than people might realise, and its probably worse than he deserves imo. I would give him a 2 week ban from streaming LoL as well as a written warning.
0megon (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Memuru,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=xVJl0pYm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-16T01:33:30.910+0000) > > Unpopular opinion, but I'm firmly defending NB3 in this, and I'm not even a major fan of his. Please hear me out, I think you'll most likely agree. > > He definitely gets far too carried away quite often, especially if something triggers him. I selected overreaction in poll however, because tbf seeing a roaming Teemo support would be an automatic trigger for most of us, and that guy playing it is clearly very aware of this fact and is potentially revelling in it lowkey. > > I strongly believe he needs someone from Riot to tell him personally that his behaviour is out of order, so he can be better. I think anyone would agree that successful streamers like him do deserve to get a personal warning rather than be slapped with a penalty, since he does it full time and a penalty will bear major financial consequences to him. In turn, this may have major impact on him mentally for the duration of the ban. Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm sure he can understand, apologise and improve. > > Sorry for commenting even though you said to not, but 'should receive a personal written warning' was not one of your options. :) I guess it would trigger a lot of players that is true. But if anyone acted out like NB3 he would get banned with ,,you cannot be toxic and AFK just because you had toxic or trolling players on team". I am not sure if the Teemo deserved the ban and probably yes, but it is big %%%% up from RIOT to not ban NB3 for this behavior if they actually stand for what they say they do. He went really far this game, but it is not like he is paragon of virtue in rest of his games and as you can see riot is ,,partnered" with him and endorses him since he has League unlocked account. If RIOT wants to fight against toxicity and have league to be ,,safe space" or whatever letting NB3 to play and even be partnered with him sends the wrong message. Honestly plenty of the streamers are toxic %%%%s so lets wonder where all the toxicity comes from when RIOT partners with them and shows they are ok with it... Plus do not forget NB3 called Nubrac ,,trash" even before the game started and he knew what is going on.
Yes, merely written warning is probably too light, but a permaban is way way too extreme. I think he should be banned from streaming LoL for 2 weeks. And yes, I'm pretty sure now that the Teemo should not have been banned.
: > I think anyone would agree that successful streamers like him do deserve to get a personal warning rather than be slapped with a penalty No one agrees with that. In fact, it's the opposite. Streamers should be given harsher penalties than average people because they are "the face of the game". If anything, they are ruining the game's reputation with their behavior if they do not get punished for bad behavior. The game doesn't need a specific streamer. If one goes away, another one takes it's place. Streamers are replaceable and it's not the streamers that make the game survive. They help it to grow faster but they have nothing to do with how well the game does after the initial growth. > since he does it full time and a penalty will bear major financial consequences to him. He can still use other accounts etc. I don't actually want him to get a ban even though he flamed and left the game. I think he needs to have his league partnership revoked. Then he can appeal for it again later. Someone as toxic as him shouldn't be allowed to be league partners. Also, major financial consequences? Who cares? He made a big mistake and has to pay for it like everyone else in any other area of work. Not to mention he definitely has the money to not suffer from something like that. You are basically saying here that it's ok to be toxic and act against the rules if you are a big streamer. However, it should be easier to get punished then. Also his reputation suffers more if he doesn't get punished because this thing will keep growing until he gets a punishment. Imaqtpie got a chat ban and it didn't affect his reputation so people who like him will still watch him. He deserves a punishment though, that isn't even debatable.
Thanks for writing such a good response, I really appreciate people discussing this with me. I'd like to have a strong influence on boards, as I'm interested in working with LoL team :D I'm sorry it's not very clear in my original comment but while I'm making a defence for NB3, I completely agree with you! I do believe he should receive punishment, and certainly not get off lighter than a player would. My point, however, is that maybe full-time streamers need to receive different types of punishment. If we're talking about what the severity of the punishment might be, then I strongly believe a written warning for him could be worse than a 2week ban for a normal player. The way I see it, and how I've been made aware that fulltime streamers themselves see it (quoting some who have never really received a penalty) is that if this consideration is not made then it is extremely harsh on the streamers. They are then paranoid about the safety of their careers, as they know that one slip up, or one misinterpretation could destroy everything for them. One day soon there will be a union for streamers for this reason, I may attempt to found one myself. I highly recommend watching the OfflineTV podcast episode that I linked someone else, if you're interested at all in the streamers' perspective. One further point I remind you of is that Riot can ban a toxic player from streaming their game altogether, like they did with Tyler1. Some people are calling for this action here, which I consider a major overreaction, because this incident was in no small part a misunderstanding. I hope that helps clarify my point of view :)
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