Hantusa (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Perilum,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Wn3ljZIA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-09T08:59:37.238+0000) > > Thanks for the whine. > We all really wanted to know why you don't enjoy the game anymore. > Thank you very much for the life lessons and motivational content. Nothing of value to bring to this thread, yet you still take the time to comment.. OP, while I understand what you say and can relate, you'll get the same feeling playing normal. The player mentality in normal is no different than in ranked (Sadly), you'll still get the same stereotype jackasses that become toxic over nothing. I think you just need to take a step back and try to avoid setting goals in terms of rank, instead make goals regarding your own game (cs, objectives, kda).
Right now I honestly don't know if I'll go back to ranked. The thought of even playing League right now is extremely unappealing! Maybe I'll come back in a few months with a fresh outlook. For now though, I think I'll enjoy the break! I've honestly been enjoying the forums more than the game for the past few weeks anyway! xD
: Plot twist: Two days later the urge to go ranked is so big... He installs the game and contacts his girlfriend via sms telling her that he wants to break up and dont see her ever again because she emotionally sabotages his efforts to climb the ranked ladder. xD.
Man I'd be a damn fool to do that! Only gold I should worry about is the ring I need to put on her finger!
Rioter Comments
: The example of high elo players isnt accurate at all. When they create a new account they end up in gold 1 after placements. Their teammates know what to do to help them carry a match!
How do they manage that? I won 8/10 placements and got Bronze IV. How do they get gold 1 if 8/10 nets Bronze IV?
: Luck is a big factor in the matchmaking. You need to play a lot of hours to balance this factor. If you are kinda good (not smurf) and play the game a lot every day you will climb. If you are decent for your elo considering winning your lane, good decisions etc but you have time for 2-3 games a day there is a chance that you wont be able to climb or you will climb really slow.
I think that's why I notice the luck factor so much. I work 6 days a week, so I only have time for 2/3 games every other night. If I get unlucky in two of those games or just perform badly, then I've moved further from my goal rather than closer. When I started my climb, I had two weeks off. I played a ton of games every day, and I climbed relatively quickly. Now that I'm back at work. It's an entirely different ballgame.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mog the Mighty,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=i7yoE09p,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-02T14:58:32.900+0000) > > What do you guys think? Who gets less retɑrdѕ in the match making coin toss, wins.
eloquently put, friend! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: The issue isn't so much that players are bad per se in Silver, it's just that they are too dumb to take towers and teamfight. They rather cluelessly run around the map until they get caught or catch something. That's all my teams do these days. Wasn't that shit last season though.
This is something I notice too. Sometimes I'll get teammates who are awesome, they'll own the enemy in team fights. Once they win though, they'll back to get their next item. Even if a turret stands three feet away, undefended and at half health. Then that same player will toast another enemy, and decide it's time to do baron. With no vision, our jungler dead, and their team completely mia. Wonder which team wins. I spend a lot of time in games pinging turrets - sometimes the team will respond or already have the same idea. Other times, they'll run off into the fog of war in pursuit of that half health Riven they saw a moment ago. Only to get 4 v 1'nd in a bush.
TTekkers (EUW)
: I would say that you can potentially have far more control over the outcome of the match, if you are better than everyone else in the game. But that requires you to be in a position to climb very rapidly anyway.
It also depends on what role you play. If you're better than everyone else, but you play support. It's a lot harder to carry a game.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Im starting to see the problem, it looks like you're assuming that we enter ranked with a static skill level and never change. You didnt reach silver from bronze because you were an unfortunate silver player who was geting held back by his teammates but eventually got lucky, you got into silver because you got better at the game, your skill level reached silver level. People don't start this game while being diamond or whatever level, evryone starts at the botom(bronze or silver), then they hone theyr skills get better at the game and climb higher eventually becoming Diamond. The most basic way to explain how matchmaking works is this: Evry player has a hidden number attached to them, which represents theyr skill level, called matchmaking rating(MMR), Before the game start system finds 10 people with similar number and matches them together, after the game winning side gets theyr numbers increased, while the ones who lost get theyrs decreased. That's it.
I don't think we enter with a static skill level. I don't however see how the system could evaluate your potential skill level from only 10 placement matches. Especially when from what I've been told your personal performance isn't a factor. That means that players of all skill levels would be placed together at the bottom of the ladder. Which in turn, verifies my earlier point that Bronze/Silver is home to the most diverse party of players in relation to skill. In fact I don't see how mmr really works, unless what I've been told about it disregarding individual performance is incorrect. If the mmr system awards you these hidden points based purely on victory or defeat - but you've just had four games in a row with an afk jungle and a bot lane who are severely outmatched, well then it doesn't matter if you go 10/0 in mid lane and get first tower, you're still most likely going to lose, the game will then punish your personal mmr and you will lose LP, putting you further away from your achievable rank. I get that this works both ways - and that's why I'm arguing that luck plays a factor. Yes, in some games you will perform so well that you will carry your team to victory - is this always possible though? I don't see how it could be. I agree that you will improve as you play. Practice makes perfect - my argument is not weather you will improve at the game, it is weather or not your rank will reflect your skill level at the end of the season. I don't think it will for everyone. I don't see how it could. Not unless the MMR system works in a totally different way to how it is described in most articles/threads online.
: Exactly, I feel he has some misconceptions too. Just because the number of players is different, there is no reason why the percentage of "average/worse/better" players in any division should change (maybe and just maybe challenger is an exception because the really low amount of players may bring games queue to be unbereable,thus forcing challengers with diamonds to avoid that). Just like in Silver you think you'll find bronzies, silvers and gold (or plats), in Plat you'll find golds, plats and diamonds (or masters); the numbers are lower but there is no reason why the percentages should change, you're just assuming it. And by the way I think this whole thing is wrong, because actually gold level players won't be in your silver's games for long, and if they are it's because 1) they just started to climb 2) they are low-gold players or just got a lucky streak that got them there for now 3) they are "actual" gold players, and matchmaking balanced the game by putting in the other team another gold/players with above average mmr I think luck IS a factor, it gets more irrelevant the more time you invest but can wear you down if you base your game on it and don't play up to your standard because of it. You have to keep your concentration up, if luck isn't on your side you can't just wait until it comes, you just have to make your possibilities of winning a game higher by playing at your best CONSTANTLY.
If there is no reason why the percentage of average/worse/better players would differ from division to division then there would be no reason for a ranked system at all. I mean surely as you climb the ladder in a system designed to whittle out the good from the bad - as you go higher the amount of good players you encounter would increase? Otherwise the system would be flawed. What does diamond consist of - 1% of the total player base or something like that? While Silver is a considerably larger percentage of players - As you said yourself, a lot of the gold tier players won't be there for long, but they are STILL there, that means they will appear in the games with you. But so will the bad players. Think of it like any other sport. Do you think a professional rugby player could carry a game to victory if he were the only competent player on his team? If the opposing team had only two players at a skill level near to his he would have an extremely hard time. Imagine if professional sports teams members were randomly picked between each game - It'd be a mess - your victory would depend on weather of not your random team mates and yourself could play as a cohesive unit. I agree that skill is a part of it - but I think anyone who denies that luck is a big factor in lower division is simply deluding themselves. I appreciate that higher elo players have earned their spot in their division - especially if they manage to stay there, and continue to climb, but they also had a bit of luck with them along the way there.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mog the Mighty,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=i7yoE09p,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2017-02-03T08:26:26.458+0000) > > If all players start in Bronze/Silver after their promos - Or at least most players. **Then that means that at one time or another Bronze/Silver has been home to every player from Bronze to Challenger.** Therefore, it would be the most diverse division as far as skill goes. Meaning, teams would have the greatest diversity in skill. So, that's where luck comes into it. it's not how this works. Sure there are smurfs and once evry year soft reset messes up matchmaking, but for the most part, there are no high elo players in low elo, all players in silver are silver, all players in bronze are bronze and so on. > and for those average players who might deserve a spot in gold, but just can't get there. with they way ranked works if player deserves the said spot then he is there or he'll get there. Reading what you wrote i feel like you have some misconception about ranked system, but can't exactly point out what's the problem.
I appreciate that you disagree, but you just said that there are no high elo players in low elo. This would mean that Diamond level players start in Diamond. Let's say hypothetically that I end my season in Diamond 5. I'm currently in silver 3. This would mean that I would hypothetically be a high elo player playing in low elo. I highly disagree that all players in Bronze are Bronze. I started in Bronze IV and climbed to Silver 3. What you just said would mean that while I was in Bronze my skill level was that of a bronze player, irregardless of weather I climb or not. I could possibly have misconceptions, this is my first time climbing the ranked ladder. If I'm wrong though, could you give me an example of how the matchmaking system works in your opinion to express what my misconception might be?
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: It's luck if you rely on it. Alsoi your math is weird. > There are more people, this means that there must be a larger **quantity of skilled/unskilled players.** this line is weird. > So let's say, there are 100 players in Bronze/Silver/Gold. Of these 100 players, 20 are excellent players - soon to be plat/diamond. 40 are average players, deserving a spot in Gold. and 40 are unskilled players. these numbers also seem made up. I don't know the exact numbers but i think plat is like top 10% of the player base, diamond is top 1%. Also if we're talking about specific elo like silver bronze, there arent any plat dieamond players there unless it's smurfs but those are rare. And i think you're kinda making this 40 skilled and 40 and unskilled kinda wrong too. i think you made this math based on your personal experience overexagerating what you saw. Just because someone died alot that one game doesnt necessarily mean they were unskilled, just because someone ammased incredible KDA in some game doesnt mean they're really good. Lower elo players tend to get blinded by some shiny most visible stats. > 'git gud - you lose because you didn't play well enough'. and as overused or as hated this line may be if you want to climb higher you have to get better. I feel like some people treat league like a single player experience, but it's not. You're only gonna climb if you're better than those around you. Mindlessly playing the game you won't get better and you won't climb. Luck is only a factor in short term, in specific games. In the long run it's all about skill.
Hey dude, the math was absolutely made up. I based it off the idea that there are more people in Bronze/Silver than any other division. This is a theory that I've seen in many articles and threads about League. While the maths is made up, I still believe that the general idea is correct. If all players start in Bronze/Silver after their promos - Or at least most players. Then that means that at one time or another Bronze/Silver has been home to every player from Bronze to Challenger. Therefore, it would be the most diverse division as far as skill goes. Meaning, teams would have the greatest diversity in skill. So, that's where luck comes into it. I agree with the last point you made, that's why I said as you climb, luck becomes less of a factor. The rate you climb at also depends on which category of player you fall under. If you are the amazing player, then you have a guaranteed amazing player in every game, and you'll climb faster. I don't deny that skill is a large part of the game, of course it is! I just think that luck plays a big role too, especially in the lower divisions, and for those average players who might deserve a spot in gold, but just can't get there.
: There are two answers to your the question whether luck is an important factor or not. If you are only slightly better than the average of all players that you get matched with and against, it is hard to make the difference in every game. So if you look at every game individually, you will definitely experience that lukc is a factor that made you win or lose a certain game. However, ranks are not intended to display a player's skill of the past 10 games. When you start playing many, many games, the factor luck will slowly disappear, because at that point you will have had about as many lucky as unlucky games. At a certain moment you will reach a point where that one lucky or that one unlucky game doesn't make a significant difference anymore. Then you will see a clear picture, that shows your true rank, not a picture that displays your progress of your last 10 games.
I agree. I think it also differs depending on your role. An ADC/Supp relies more heavily on luck as they are depending on their lane partner to perform well. A Jungle depends on his team knowing how to set up ganks for him. You can be the best jungler in the world, but if your team refused to ward or flees every time you gank, you're gonna have a bad time. I think the roles that rely the least on luck are top/mid. These are the lanes that depend entirely on your performance. If you demolish your opponent and snowball top lane - taking turret after turret. You alleviate a lot of the pressure on your team members. Allowing them to focus on farming. In this instance you can certainly carry a game. Sometimes I wish I played top/mid. I just don't enjoy these lanes though.
: I am going to read the first two lines of this post and assume it's someone complaining at crit chance being a thing in League and then proceed to drown in bleach. http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-i-m-just-kidding.png
There are a lot of those threads aren't there? {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Okay, I stand corrected on the reporting issue!
: as a main support i feel this burn the most. no matter how well or badly i play, the match is down to the junglers and the mid/top laners. it is very rare that i feel that i won the game. that only happens when my clutch peel or ulti completely turns a fight late game. and the funny thing is that nobody will give recognition to that either. i solo climbed to gold last season and i'm planning to do the same again, but my teammates are often depressing me. i've come to learn that no matter how hard u win bot lane, if your mid/top have lost theirs hard, it's game over for us. and yea, in bronze i can carry with support. but in silver, the skill gap between players is huge and games are really down to luck.
I feel your pain, man. I main Sona. Sometimes I can play to an amazing standard, only to lose because Sona can't fight a fed Riven no matter how good I play. What is that with the lack of recognition for supports? If I see a player do something impressive I always mention it, it's good for moral. I can only recall one time when a team mate gave me recognition for a good Sona ult, which secured us Baron.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
I dunno if I worded it right. But I've been in a few games where someone is intentionally feeding. The enemy team more often than not won't report that player or they might even honor him. Similarly, a lot of people think you can report someone for losing lane. Which is ridiculous.
Rioter Comments
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mog the Mighty,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=G62s6Q8R,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-02T11:42:41.146+0000) > > I love this idea. It sort of reminds me of the honor system in Overwatch. All players vote at the end for the best player. I personally always honor the players who impress me in game. I'd love a way to reward them - without spending my own moolah though! I suggested this to Riot (pair with other things) way back in mid-Season 4. I borrowed the idea from another MOBA which I don't recall now. It used a "karma" system, similar to SMITE. If Blizzard picked-up those ideas from said games, then it must mean they aren't all that bad. Riot should do the same.
They could also take a few tips from Overwatch's fun little gimmick where players who says 'ez' or anything like it get auto-corrected to things like 'Well played, have a great day!'. Honestly, I think the honor system right now is really weird. The reports are abused, and the honor system is hardly noticeable.
: Why not {{champion:44}} ? {{champion:44}} is <3, {{champion:44}} is life.
I guess I'd better give {{champion:44}} a try then.
: I have been transitioning into tanky supports of late. Previously, I was a Soraka, Sona, Karma support. Leona is a great champion to play, she has great engage and can be a menace in lane (threatening to engage is usually enough to have the enemy back tracking. A lot of people have said to me that she is not that strong right now but I am in low elo; down here there is no meta as such, the OP champions are the ones that you can play well. My only issue with her is that you are kinda dependent on your teammates willingness to engage when you do. If they don't see that window of opportunity when you do, they might back off and leave you to die. This, of course, is just as much my fault as it is theirs; engaging at the wrong time with the wrong enemy probably accounts for about 75% of my deaths. Anyway, she can be fun. She doesn't have the shield and heal to protect your ADC but body-blocking attacks with your W up can be equally as effective.
That's my biggest fear with Leona. There are plenty of times when I'll land a Sona ult across the entire enemy team, only to have my team run off and leave me to die. I figure Braum might be able to at least protect the squishy members, if they feel safer, they'll be more inclined to follow through in a fight!
Sherrinka (EUNE)
: Hi there, I tend to play more of a peel/heal supports, but I used to main Leona in S4&5 so I think I could offer some insights. Im a mediocre Braum at best, but I know why he is strong (I am just dumb with him). So, concerning Leona, she is amazing. She synergizes well with almost all carries (exceptions are Kog and similar champs that need to be protected until they farm up). > I used to fear her, now I just burst her out of lane early. Thats perfectly normal. Sona has incredible early presence that Leo cant compete with. If you couldnt harras her early something would be wrong. But be aware that at lvl 6 the balance suddenly changes and a good Leona engage wrecks Sona. ________ Now onto Braum. He is good, but I would say that he is a bit harder and not every carry synergizes well with him (just try to proc your pasive with Jhin, its a nightmare) Overall I think both are good champs, it just depends what you prefer. Braum has better peel/disengage while providing good engage, Leo is tankier and has even better engage. Btw, if you are looking for good tanky supports, give Naut a try. Coming from someone who cant play Tresh for shit and hates Blitz with a fiery passion, I found Naut surprisingly good (Blitz Q is to fast, Treshs too slow, Naut is just perfect). He is liek a good amalgam of Leo and Braum. Good engage and disruption, durable af, just the CC-king.
I tried Naut. The slow clunky feel just didn't sit well with me. Part of the reason I play Sona is for her E. I love being able to spur my team onward, or get from one lane to another fast enough to make a difference. I've seen him a lot in the top lane though. He's actually a beast when he's played right!
: {{champion:201}} is pretty good, but your adc has to know how to autoattack. He's strong because of his passive. {{champion:201}} {{champion:236}} lane is so damn good. {{champion:89}} has to have a follow up. You can make the sickest engage, but if no one goes in with you you're dead. But the lockdown in lane is insane. She's good against squishy lanes. She's vulnerable against poke though as you've found out with Sona. Avoid the poke, engage when anyone is out of position and you'll be fine. Another problem is that she can't offer much peel. You can body block with her and that's about it. Braum has way more peel than her with W and E. She goes well with {{champion:81}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:51}} Morgana and Sivir counter her though with the endless spellshields. Both are good starter tanks, IMO since you don't like thresh and blitz. They are also kinda tricky to pull off. {{champion:12}} don't reccomend him either, I think he's harder than thresh even. {{champion:223}} {{champion:44}} these two are also very good and combine good CC and tankyness with a lot of utility.
From the responses, I'm really leaning towards Braum! I'm getting the impression that he'll fit my play style better than Leona. Between Taric and Tahm, I think I only own Taric. He's another one that I never see in game. He might be a good option too, although I haven't the faintest clue as to what he does.
: Venting time
It doesn't sound like your MF intentionally fed. I'm sure she was trying to help, but just wasn't skilled enough. To be honest, while I understand how frustrating it can be when your lane partner isn't up to par - you're best off just muting the team when you start to feel frustrated. Complaining to them will not help the situation. Think back on all the games you've ever played. Every time a player has upset you, or done something that you consider to be silly. When you've said something negative to them, has it ever helped? Or do you just finish the game and feel even more frustrated. We've all been there - we've all been that person who get's the abuse - We've all been the person who just couldn't stay quiet and had to say something stupid. I personally know for damn sure, that not once has it ever helped me. If you're gonna lose, lose with grace. The alternative is to lose the game, and the respect of everyone you just played with - you end up sitting there with the pain of defeat and the mental stress of arguing with someone for 40 minutes. It's not worth it.
Febos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Th3gr8Cornholio,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=G62s6Q8R,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-02T11:09:01.900+0000) > A better solution for the tribunal system is just to pick simple and understandable option, in the after the match screen, block players to pick something before hitting the continue button, or in other case they can cancel and after several cancels they will lose rank score and queue with other players who are ignorant, like they are in general. I'm all for "forcing" players into acknowledging their teammates, but let's not punish those that don't want to do it. I assume that most people don't give out honors for 2 reasons: 1. They click off immediately 2. They think it doesn't influence anything 2.2 Both above *** If the honor system rewarded players who are rightfully honorable, then more people would start to use it. It doesn't need to be anything spectacular. There's a couple of things that would make the system better: 1. You must pick 1 player, from either team, whom you want to reward 2. The player that receives more votes, or if someone receives X ammount of votes, they are rewarded with someting: extra IP, Blue Essence or Orange Essence; based on how many votes he got 3. This system would catch false honors, like we can catch false reports. Just giving IP isn't good enough, because a lot of players don't care about it. Blue Essence and Orange Essence is different. Maybe throw in a Mystery Skin Shard or Hextech Chest if the player being rewarded managed to get 9 honors. The possibilities are endless.
I love this idea. It sort of reminds me of the honor system in Overwatch. All players vote at the end for the best player. I personally always honor the players who impress me in game. I'd love a way to reward them - without spending my own moolah though!
Gaddafi (EUW)
: Games are easy in a way but it's all about who feeds first. What i am bored of seeing is how team score is like -15 kills before 15 min mark. That's sick man. But there were rare games where it was pleasure of playing i even had a game going for like 70 minutes lol that was good experience.
It's super disheartening when your top/mid dies 6/7 times in under 10 minutes. I get that sometimes players are outmatched - but you don't have to die that much. I main support, and when I've played top/mid I've been outmatched plenty! I still don't die though. I might lose lane, but I won't die. I can do that much for my team! I think in most games, you can do more for your team by just staying alive than by actually getting kills.
Rioter Comments
Wen294 (EUW)
: Last i checked silver was still one of the soft metals. Oh well.
Are you a dad? I feel like you're a dad.
D4RKEVA (EUW)
: Thats is because in bronze you were better and won more due to that by thaz your teams also seemed better But this only happens when you are close to your elo where you belong ^^
I still have a 62% win rate. I don't think I'm at the elo I belong at just yet, at least I hope not! xD
: Ah hello! A random person here. So having played support the least out of everything while being somewhat a jack of all trades i feel that if one lane other than yours is feeding things will get really hard to carry. For support i primarily Sona and Thresh. And after quite a few games with them mostly in normals i´ve gotten some experience. (also if your lane feeds it will also be difficult but lets be optimistic and assume that doesn't happen) So as a classic or normal support you can indeed carry. By means of causing your ADC to snowball by being the truly superior support. However this does only work granted that your ADC isn't too bad so it's conditional. Some supports do posses game changing abilities that with correct usage than tip the game around. But it's still harder than other roles whom i will look at briefly for comparison. Midlaners are fairly diverse and how they carry depends on the champions picked and the opponent. Some will farm until mid-lategame and then use all their ~~Crops~~ i mean AP from the gold to sway the fight with AOE. Others will do single target laser annihilation and others yet will be more assassin-esque. There is also the legendary DPS mage who sometimes appears to melt people's faces. Those are rare however. Jungle is diverse but currently it's all about those assassins and fighters. Top is fairly diverse but tanks and fighters are dominating. Tanks who carry through absorbing all the enemy damage with their faces and then walking up and punching enemy ADC until he dies 3 hits later ~~ADC in 2k17 lul~~. Then fighters whom although not as able to absorb damage as the tank, will dash,hop and whatever their way around and stab, smash, bash, cut and murder first target's presented, in a second or two. We also have the occasional juggernauts whom is a hybrid of of the tank and fighter. Darius being the current figurehead is famous for carrying via means of swinging axe to dunk people down to the underworld, through it's floor and down to whatever is beneath. All while tanking the rest of the enemy and healing by swinging his axe around, because of reasons. Then we have the classic support and first who's only mean to carry is supposed to be....protecting the ADC. Whom suffers from the "getting-oneshot-by-tanks" syndrome. These fellows are great but they often stuggle against the third type of supports soon to be mentioned. 2nd type is the tank support. Who attempts to carry via taking all the damage meant for his/hers ADC. These fellows often posses some crowd control and well placed skills can be game turners but they also struggle against type 3 supports. 3rd type : the supports who support through murdering the enemy team AKA the mage support. These fellows are often the gold efficient mages or the ones with exceedingly high base damage. They spend their laning making the enemy botlane miserable via means of poking for days, slowly or quickly withering all opposition down. These fellows carry the ADC in a similar way to how midlane mages do their team. If there are no enemies left then no one can hurt the poor weak ADC. That is if the ADC didn't drown by tripping in the river. Or getting lost in the jungle and encountering an angry gromp. Which does not matter if the enemy team is dead. TL ; DR Support role will rarely carry, unless you are truly superior as a support and cause your ADC to snowball the most likely situation is that you will only be able to enhance the rest of the team's snowball carrying but some odd support here and there does posses game changing abilities and can can indeed carry by good usage at times. However the truly dominant support is the mage support whose philosophy is unfortunately very true. The dead and the recently killed undead cannot hurt you unless it's Karthus. Then running is advised.
I love what you said about getting lost in the jungle. I literally had an ADC die to the blue buff yesterday... at 23 mins into the game... Sometimes there's just nothing a support can do! I have to admit, I mostly play the 3rd type of support you mentioned - Sona.
Phairdy (EUW)
: So let's talk about nasus
I stopped playing Nasus because of how hard it is to stay alive with him. There are too many champions who will just demolish him in lane. No use farming Q, if the game ends before you get your stacks.
ZeeDrakon (EUW)
: >FIRST BLOOD MEANS NOTHING! Actually, first blood statistically makes the game 60%-40% in favor of the team with FB. Thats pretty significant. >It's not 100% your fault if you loss True, but its 100% your fault if you dont climb. The only constant in your games is you.
I didn't know that statistic, and I wish you hadn't told me xD I'd prefer to continue believing it means nothing - which it turns keeps me positive when the enemy team gets it! I agree with your second point!
Sherrinka (EUNE)
: > I've never thought of Eye of the Watcher as necessary, but I'll be sure to rush it now! I am happy to see you are taking my suggestions to heart, but since I dont want you to blindly follow something someone on the internet said let me explain to you why EotW is so great. So here is the spellthief line: {{item:3303}} +10dmg & 8g per hit on champ, 12 sec lockout when killing a minion {{item:3098}} +15 dmg & gold per hit, 12 sec lockout {{item:2301}} /{{item:3092}} + 15 dmg & gold, **NO** lockout the no lockout part is a bigger deal than you might realise. It means that now your Qs are pretty much a steady source of income regardless whether some stray dmg kills a minion. When you add the per sec gold + what you earn by harrasing I can assure you that the item pays for itself in a moderately long game. And since its base stats arent shabby either this is just pure gain for you. > On the games where I have almost 0 support items - usually, this is when the game gets off too a negative start, I've made the decision to try and build full AP to see if I can carry. This has almost never worked. So, It's something I'm going to avoid doing. I can kinda see you line of reasoning here, but ultimately this is counterproductive. Even if you decide to carry, you probably wont be able to farm freely, which means that selling the spellthief/ac is pretty much selling your additional source of income. Kind of a backwards logic here :D +if you wanna carry your items are wrong: in that case I would go for Frost Queens instead of the eye and leave the sightstone be (or maaaybeee skip it, and I am only making this suggestion because you are in silver, you will never see me make this suggestion anywhere else). FCQ gives you more AP and an active that gives you massive sticking power. Next up, get Athenes, some Ap, CDR & resist for you , useful passive for your team + now you have almost infinite mana. Lich bane you are already buying on a consistent basis so I dont have to explain how great it is for Sona. Then, instead of Redemption get Ardent Censer. Its a bit weaker on the heal/shields but gives you some Ap/ms in return. And the passive attack speed is really nice to speed up your Q-AA-W-AA-E-AA rotation. And the little healing is just a tiny little nice touch. If you have a slot left (either because you got eye of didnt get sightstone) just get some stat-stick. Rabadon is nice but expensive. Void staf is surprisingly good. Rylai is my personal fave for the survivalibity + slow. Ok, so hope I dont annoy you with these over-long explanations.
This is probably the single most useful bit of advice I've ever been given on League. I had no idea about the lockout mechanic. I've only built the full EotW maybe three times, and always late as you've noticed. I never realized the income it provided. I'll definitely consider Ardent Crusader - I've noticed that most of my team mates don't actually recognize when I'm using Redemption, so half the time it goes to waste, as they'll actually pull the enemy out of it. Thanks again!
Sherrinka (EUNE)
: Hello there, I cant attests to the difficulty of Silver in this season as I skipped it in my placements, but as a fellow support main I hope I can help you just a little with your problems. Attitude-wise I think you are doing great. Sure, everybody has slip-ups and argues sometimes, but the fact that you are able to recognize that you are tilted and consciously take a break before you do something you might regret is a good first step. Just dont get hung up on the losses and on what your teammates are doing and instead fcus on improving yourself. Even a losing game can teach you a lot, no matter whether you are losing due to the enemys skill or your mistakes. Hang in there and keep a positive attitude and I believe you wil climb. On the technical side I have a few minor issues with your playstyle. When I look at your history your items seem a little, hm, wonky, I would say. Somethimes you have the support item but no Sightstone, sometimes the other way round, sometimes you have both, and sometimes, perplexingly, you have neither, even tho you are clearly playing support. And sure, you can make an argument about deviating from the meta and that the items arent mandatory, but I would disagree with you there. I know, I know, its Silver, half the people have no idea what to do with vision so why bother with Sightstone. The thing is, the other half do and I think its a shame to deny them this advantage. Plus, it would teach you good habits. In Gold its pretty rare to see a Support without Sightstone and if I do, I consider the game won. Second thing, when you are playing Sona you seem to be building Eye of the Watcher. I have no problem with the fact that you are building it, but you are finishing it ridiculously late usualy. Eye is a really great early boost for you and delaying its completion in favor of something else is not worth it IMO. I would point out your 3/7/28 Sona game as an example of the ideal build, I would have just finished the Eye first instead of last. +Overall you seem to have a thing for selling your spellthief/ancient coin to make room/money for other items. Dont do that. Just dont. Finish your Eye of whatever and it wont take up the space anymore and its money well spent. So that is everything from me, hope it helped you even a little. If you have any questions or issues, I would be happy to help you in any way I can. Good luck on the Rift!
I'm extremely happy that you took the time to go through my games and notice these few things! I admit I've made some weird decisions in games recently, as is evident by my builds! I've never thought of Eye of the Watcher as necessary, but I'll be sure to rush it now! On the games where I have almost 0 support items - usually, this is when the game gets off too a negative start, I've made the decision to try and build full AP to see if I can carry. This has almost never worked. So, It's something I'm going to avoid doing. Thanks a lot for taking the time to make these suggestions, I really appreciate it!
: Question for support mains
I enjoy it sure. It is really dependent on the team though. Doesn't matter how well I play. If mid/top feed there is no way to bring the game back. On the other hand, if your ADC knows how to engage with a support, man, it is a world of fun. Landing that perfect ult as Sona and netting your team an ACE is a wonderful feeling. There's a lot more to support than people think. So many people complain about the role, especially when they get auto-filled. It's an opportunity though, to snowball your whole team. Your wards can be the deciding factor in a team fight. That clutch heal, the difference between life and death for a team mate. You're map awareness can prevent deaths, you can sustain your team, set up kills - zz'rot allows you to defend your base with crazy efficiency - Redemption can turn a fight around. There's so much versatility with the roll. You like doing damage? Take Sona and one shot their ADC at level 18. You like being an unstoppable force? Alistar/Nautilus/Braum are for you! You wanna cheese the enemy and feel like a complete god, roll Blitzcrank and make your enemies cry! It's a fantastic and under appreciated role, It's heavily reliant on your team, but it's super rewarding too! Also on your last point - Abuse will come no matter your role, I find it far more satisfying to save the guy who's been flaming me the last fifteen minutes, and get him a triple kill, as opposed to arguing back. Prove your point with efficiency rather than words.
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: >I'm not the best player. I main support, because it suits my mentality - I'm not an overly aggressive guy, I like to think ahead and plan for the future - I adopt this mentality in everyday life, so naturally I bring it to league. ...Are you me? o.O As for ranking up, all the luck to you! I am in the exact same situation. Been stuck in Silver 1 for awhile now, but after yesterday's winning streak, I am confident that I will get to at least Gold V this season as well (honestly, I don't care for higher). I did Flash for first blood in a game yesterday (playing Nami), but my ADC had already backed off, so I decided to go for it. Was successful too (my split-second mental calculation gave me roughly a 70% chance of success, and that was enough for me), which made it rather fun. :)
I do this all the time as Sona. My ADC will back off, and I'll flash in Q - Auto and grab us first blood. I'd prefer if the Jhin/Vayne/Ashe or whoever got the kill and not the assist. Sometimes I wish Sona had better wave clear. I feel like I'd be unstoppable with her in that case! xD Best of luck hitting gold, hopefully I'll join you there later this season!
: for us support mains its all about luck, u can't carry those 0-10 teammates as support and for those "pro players" who say: get good, i say go to hell
I think part of it is luck. I mean, when you get someone who's never played Lee Sin, but they take him jungle against a Shaco main. That's a steep hill to climb... With some good supporting plays though, you should be able to get your team fed. Sometimes though, the team just isn't on the same page. You can throw out a perfect stun only to have your entire team flee from their disabled carry. Or my personal favorite - throw down redemption where a fight is about to occur, only to have your entire team run outside of the healing zone.
Le Tongue (EUNE)
: Hey, I was placed in Silver 4 this start of the season... I think. I'm now in Diamond 4. I didn't focus on "climbing", I don't care about such. I care about improving and having fun. I failed a lot of promotions to Gold this season which is unusual, like 8 times, but it DID NOT tilt me. Because I worked on it, so now I never tilt. How? Well, start by focusing on improving and not "climbing". You say your life has a lot of ups and downs, and that will impact your play for sure. First, get control of your mechanics and in-game decisions. Then, work with your mentality. The 'blame game' doesn't benefit you at all. Something I read that was really nice was that "You blame someone trying to protect your ego by wanting to APPEAR as if you're working on a solution, instead of actually working on a solution". Working with not tilting after a game will help you a lot. I removed my tilt completely and it gives so much more room for improvement. And speaking of which, don't focus on tiers. Focus on skill and improvement. YOUR own. Because you can't control your teammates or enemy, but you can improve yourself. Don't see games for losses or wins, because improvement matters. If you improve 3 things during a loss, and 1 during a win for example, why do you get more happy for winning? You clearly learned more in that game you lost (just making up numbers here). Any questions, ask.
Great advice! Thank you! I definitely understand that I've been part of the problem this past week. Personal circumstances and such have been weighing on my mind. That's why I'm going to take the rest of the week off and come back with a fresh outlook. I started playing ranked with the mentality you just described but the more I won the more it became about winning. Last night my girlfriend actually brought up how badly the game has been affecting my mood in the evenings. That's not something I'm prepared to allow. So yeah, time for a break. When I return it'll be to learn and to improve, and we'll see where that takes me. Cheers!
: To be honest i found silver to be quite easy, but since getting into gold i'm finding my matches to be quite unbalanced with such massive skill differences of certain players.
I don't find the players hard to lane against or anything. I can pretty much always hold my own. The only time I'm a total loss is if you put Illaoi against me. That champ is my personal Achilles heel. I do find the game to be almost impossible to win when you're up against an 8/0/7 Hecarim, and a 12/3/7 Vayne though, and your team doesn't have any cohesion.
Sefi (EUNE)
: I don´t think i´ve played a lot of silver games this season, although usually all of my team mates are last seasons silver but were all in the bronze bracket so who even knows what these ranks mean anymore. But if i am having roughly silver ish games i´d say its pretty easy, otherwise i have no freaking idea to be honest.
Nearly everyone I'm up against has the gold border, I'm even seeing some platinum. It's crazy though, I felt like in Bronze, more often than not I was getting team mates that prioritized objectives - knew when to group - knew their champs through and through. I learnt a lot from playing with this people. It felt like you had a chance in almost every game, win or lose, you had a chance to sway the outcome. Silver feels more like luck of the draw. Bronze was chess, silver is battleships. Not all the time obviously, but enough that I'm beginning to understand the people that comment on here about the game being out to get them. It's ridiculous of course, but it can honestly feel that way.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mog the Mighty,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=rkgNIbAX,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-31T16:04:44.211+0000) > > Guys, honestly. If you have a feeder on your team, or you're against one - don't support that carry on. Actually you should be trying to provoke the feeder more _(in a non-toxic way),_ since the more frequently they feed the easier time the system has to flag them as a toxic player.
But at what cost? Ruin 4/5 games to get one guy banned? I'd rather just mute him - pretend he's not there and play my best, win or lose. I can report him at the end - and if he doesn't get flamed, then he gets no satisfaction from feeding.
Rioter Comments
: How do you know he was inting and not just having a couple of bad matches?
In the first game, he definitely tried at the start, he got first blood. As soon as we took a lead though, he just gave up. He literally ran down mid. Hit whoever was near the turret and then stood still until the turret killed him. He'd dive into our entire team, while his were nowhere nearby and type 'ALLAHU AKBAR', 'GET REKT', 'I CARRY HARD TROLOLOLOL'. Trust me, he was inting. In the second game he made no attempt to try at the start. He straight up ran down each lane one after another, straight to the turret giving a kill to each of our lanes.
Rioter Comments
Perilum (EUW)
: So what? When you hit promos again, you start with a win already. So no problem to climb back up. It's not even half the season in and you act like the world is over.
It's not really that the world was over. It's the harsh reality that I lost those games because I played awfully! I'm a very competitive person and having to accept that I was bad, that is hard! I'm going to keep trying. Just got to get over the tilt!
: there is a whole year worth of time to make it to gold. instead focus on watching your own games and see what u can do to close out games better. How u played early game trading. Mid game rotations. How you did at teamfights etc did u use all skills correctly ? Did u waste any time are there any opportunies u could have done ? take your time there is still a long time as s7 just started take this time as opportunity to grow personally.
I know, last night was just very bad. Thanks for the support and the advice. The biggest issue is the knowledge that I played badly. My cs was poor, my positioning was poor, my map awareness/warding was awful. It's 100% my fault, and that's a hard pill to swallow!
Sefi (EUNE)
: So what does this game do when you dont have nuts?
It punches you in the fart-box!
: This game kicks you in the nuts.
And with another crushing defeat. I think my dream of hitting gold can just die. Along with any enthusiasm I had for this game. Some of us are just meant to be bronze forever.
Rioter Comments
Mangekyu (EUW)
: This game is too heavily reliant on the jungler nowadays.
I sort of agree. It really depends. For the most part in low elo, the junglers are rarely that influential on the outcome of the game. The odd time that you're either with or against a really good jungler though, those are the games that are total stompfests.
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Mog the Mighty

Level 30 (EUW)
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