: Rito nerfed Ezreal into oblivion
Ez has been very popular for a while now along with Xayah and Kai'Sa. It's not end of the world if he's not a top pick for a while. Let other adc's have some spotlight. Btw, he's still a decent pick with pretty good pick rate.
jacktjong (EUW)
: Could be a bug sprouted from the new map morphing. But in all seriousness, this is most definitely just test footage from the Fiddle rework.
> [{quoted}](name=jacktjong,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ZXc7bFb5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-02T15:14:28.440+0000) > But in all seriousness, this is most definitely just test footage from the Fiddle rework. It's not. Fiddle has his old model here. It's just a bug.
: But your falling into a common trap... yeah an adc might be vulnerable but bot lane isn’t just an adc it’s a support as well... and with a half decent support a fed adc can do way more than anyone else in the game. That’s what people don’t always get past... the issue has never been adc, it’s bot lane as a duo... in fact honestly it’s got a large part to do with the support more than the adc their ability to facilitate, protect, and get kills for the adc eliminates a lot of your argument. So I stand by what I said, the bot lane is the most important lane in the game by far entirely due to its duo nature (and dragon), not much anyone can do about it tbh
Thing is, supports are not exclusively tied to adc. They are free to roam and help other team members as well, especially once the lane phase is over. You see support mains saying this plenty of times that if their adc is bad they'll go support other lanes. Nothing is stopping a support from helping his/her top/mid/jungler, especially past lane phase. Therefore, your argument is flawed.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nar7ia,realm=EUW,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=Vhut3cLh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-12-01T07:12:17.752+0000) > > Do you realize the same can be said about every lane, right? As an adc main I have games where my mid/top/jungler int hard and do less damage than my support, making the game basically 3/4v5. Worst thing is, its far more difficult to carry games as a squishy adc than it is on mid/top champions like Syndra, Jax, Irelia etc. Ye, but with bot Its usually worse. Not ONLY Its more frequent that one side feeds hard the other one but also the facts that winning side can get 2 kills per fight, at bot are elementals and bot Is dominating lane in lategame. Its far more difficult to carry as an adc? Haha, nice joke 😀. I can carry with ashe as easily as with hypercarry toplaner {{champion:10}} or midlaner{{champion:8}}, with ashe, a champ that I play just for a chest. Adc Is a lot about what kind of player Is your support, so more dependable adcs like jhin it migh have harder with bad support but bot Is still dominating lane if both of them are somewhat good. Even I could do comeback with 1/9 jhin...
> [{quoted}](name=HideSide,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=Vhut3cLh,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-12-01T10:23:16.616+0000) > > Ye, but with bot Its usually worse. Not ONLY Its more frequent that one side feeds hard the other one but also the facts that winning side can get 2 kills per fight, at bot are elementals and bot Is dominating lane in lategame. It's not any more frequent than top/mid feeding hard. You're just having a confirmation bias. I've switched from playing bot to top lately and my bot lane doesn't int hard any more frequently than my top/mid did when I used to play bot. Sometimes it just seems bot lane is feeding harder because bot lane is much more likely to get 3/4/5 manned than mid or top. I mean ever since I started playing top, I don't remember getting 3 manned ever whereas on bot it happened pretty much every other game. >Its far more difficult to carry as an adc? Haha, nice joke 😀. I can carry with ashe as easily as with hypercarry toplaner {{champion:10}} or midlaner{{champion:8}}, with ashe, a champ that I play just for a chest. Sure buddy, I'd love to see you carry as Ashe when the enemy team has a 8/0 {{champion:55}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:28}} > Adc Is a lot about what kind of player Is your support, so more dependable adcs like jhin it migh have harder with bad support but bot Is still dominating lane if both of them are somewhat good. So you admit adc's have to depend on their support. That's the first red sign for being a carry in soloQ. Also, pretty much adc's have to depend on their support, even adc's like Kai'Sa and Xayah. > bot Is dominating lane in lategame. Yeah .... 'late game' but 80%+ games nowadays are pretty much decided before 20-25 min.
Zanador (EUNE)
: I know that feeling. Top is feeding a Jax, Mid is feeding a Ryze, Jungle is feeding a blue Kayne and i'm just sitting on bot, wondering if it's too late to go back and buy a Doran's Lotion.
> [{quoted}](name=Zanador,realm=EUNE,application-id=2BfrHbKG,discussion-id=Vhut3cLh,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-12-01T08:40:12.044+0000) >I know that feeling. Top is feeding a Jax, Mid is feeding a Ryze, Jungle is feeding a blue Kayne and i'm just sitting on bot, wondering if it's too late to go back and buy a Doran's Lotion. Sad but true. > Doran's Lotion. This made my day lol.
: When even TF Blade can't carry inting botlane in Platinum ELO.
> We all have those games where botlane just ints and you just can't do anything about it. This is why games are coinflip, you just pray you get normal botlane that won't be the one inting. Do you realize the same can be said about every lane, right? As an adc main I have games where my mid/top/jungler int hard and do less damage than my support, making the game basically 3/4v5. Worst thing is, its far more difficult to carry games as a squishy adc than it is from mid/top with champions like Syndra, Jax, Irelia etc.
Myxer (EUW)
: My thoughts on "ADC" and how now I'll be taking a break from league because of the changes.
Truth be told, the adc role is just quite weak in soloQ right now. I'd even go further and say it's the least influential and weakest role atm. But for some reason people believe adc's are OP and continue to hate them. The problem is, most adc's don't really have much power before they have 2-3 finished items but games nowadays are pretty much decided in the first 20 minutes before adc's can have any real impact. I mean when even supports are able to 1v1 adc's, you know the role is garbage. Here is a proof if you don't believe me. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/e116o3/solo_killing_caitlyn_as_leona_and_an_assist_from/ It honestly makes me sad because adc is my favorite role in the game. I really wish Riot does something about the current state of adc's but the way things are going, I don't think they will do anything anytime soon. They just want to make the game flashy, fast paced and pro play oriented for money and guess what adc's suffer in fast paced games.
DeCoqq (EUW)
: Lets look few of those champs: Malph lvl 11; Q 270, W 60+100+~20, E 60, R 300 = 810 Garen lvl 11; Q 90+105+42, E 0, W (with bonus) (34+52)x7, R 300+25% missing health = 840+R(840x0.25+300) = 1350 Voli lvl 11; Q 90+97, W (lets use 50% missing health and 600 bonus hp) 240+136, E 60, R 115+97+115(AA with bonus) = 950 All those dmg numbers are without resistances so the real dmg will be even less. I.e. lvl 11 jinx has ~1320 hp so none of those champs would kill her in one rotation. From those three examples, malph is the only one who could do the whole rotation freely, others need to somehow get in melee range with adc
You're ignoring the extra damage from items, runes, auto attacks and spell ratio bonuses. Your math is flawed at best.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nar7ia,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r5eGiqMA,comment-id=000000000000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T21:35:22.011+0000) > > Here you go > > https://imgur.com/Y2Zz9gD > > Happy? Third highest damage dealt in the game and the guy wasn't even fed. Oh and he had no Thornmail :^) > > Idk why you wouldn't consider Thornmail in damage calculations. If an item is making a champion tanky while at the same time increasing their damage output, I will consider it in damage calculations no matter how the item does it. Your example of Leona is a poor one as Leona is generally played as a support and not as a main tank/bruiser. Leona is a tanky support therefore is also a tank... so not a poor example at all xD also you say 'he wasn't even fed'... he had a KDA of 4.5:1 and still was only the 3rd in row damager so your statement is not very correct, Draven and Qiyana did the most damage so to me this still seems pretty fair and not OP at all....
> Leona is a tanky support therefore is also a tank... so not a poor example at all xD Yes it is a poor example. Leona might be a tank but she builds support items instead of tanky and damaging items. Her ratios are also balanced around being a support rather than a primary tank. > also you say 'he wasn't even fed'... he had a KDA of 4.5:1 and still was only the 3rd in row damager so your statement is not very correct, Man you're making me laugh now. KDA doesn't mean jack when it gets inflated by assists. The guy had only 1 kill, bet even Syndra had more gold than him. Qiayana and Draven also fought more than him (70%+ KP) so, it's one of the reasons why they had higher damage.
: but your example is one with thornmail and the thornmail also affects the damage output of these tanks in a positive manner so it is not a correct example, the only time i can kill an adc with Leona is the moment i have my E, W, Q, R and ignite available otherwise they always kill me so if you wanna drive your point home, show me a damage chart where the tank didn't have thornmail and solely did its damage using burts, then we both know that the damage output will not be this high
Here you go https://imgur.com/Y2Zz9gD Happy? Third highest damage dealt in the game and the guy wasn't even fed. Oh and he had no Thornmail :^) Idk why you wouldn't consider Thornmail in damage calculations. If an item is making a champion tanky while at the same time increasing their damage output, I will consider it in damage calculations no matter how the item does it. Your example of Leona is a poor one as Leona is generally played as a support and not as a main tank/bruiser.
DeCoqq (EUW)
: Pls, tell me a champ that kills adc in one rotation with tank build?
> [{quoted}](name=DeCoqq,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r5eGiqMA,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-20T13:36:26.008+0000) > > Pls, tell me a champ that kills adc in one rotation with tank build? {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:106}} Just few examples. All of them can kill adc's in one rotation with tank build early-mid game, maybe even late game.
: given thornmail was used, the statement is still somewhat correct since the insane damage on the enemy ad damagers got reflected back on him/her but the tank itself did not generate this damage with skillshots or so
> [{quoted}](name=bloodyfool,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r5eGiqMA,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-20T11:37:41.238+0000) > > given thornmail was used, the statement is still somewhat correct since the insane damage on the enemy ad damagers got reflected back on him/her but the tank itself did not generate this damage with skillshots or so No, just no. Most tanks are capable of bursting adc's and squishies in 3-4 sec without Thornmail. Thornmail or not, tanks shouldn't be doing higher damage than carries. This Board acts like tanks are weak but tanks are perfectly fine.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kitty Cat Nap,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r5eGiqMA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:00:51.455+0000) > > its not more popular but it works. > > if i look at every game in season 9: my team picks 3 assassins and enemy picks 1 tank and totally owned my fake ninja team. > > ppl r to focussed on "meh me make flashy assassin plays" then picking champs that can actually win the game. Which is true mostly always. By default, players won't play tanks, regardless of the meta. Why play the "defensive" roles with low damage instead than the "diva" ones with plenty of damage? Of course, losing over and over won't teach them about this no matter what. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sarchiapon,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=r5eGiqMA,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T10:06:45.910+0000) > > Why play the "defensive" roles with low damage instead than the "diva" ones with plenty of damage? Yeah ... low damage ... lol :D https://imgur.com/fQzjvap
: with the rise of aftershock on tanks because of the 30% buff and the inclusion of tank drakes we will revert to a get oneshot by someone you can't even dmg meta.
We're already there. https://imgur.com/V0aH5QA Full tank Malphite doing more damage than carries xD
: Yeah, but that is exactly what is bothering me, the fact that my score looks shiny and I get mvp doesn't matter, I watch pro adc players and they almost always have the highest damage.
> I watch pro adc players and they almost always have the highest damage. In pro games or soloQ games? Because pro games are totally different from soloQ games. In pro play, teams play around their adc's and funnel resources into them. In soloQ, nobody really cares about their adc. Also, generally mages will have higher damage than adc's because they tend to have AoE/DoT/poke whereas most adc's damage is single target focused.
: To be honest, no matter what Riot says about a champion on release it will usually be used differently by the community. Let's not forget that in the worlds finals we had Naut vs Pyke mid lane.....
IIRC Naut actually used to be played as a solo laner/jungler before he became popular as a support.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Ok, I will comment on it, but disclaimer first: _100% my oppinion, not facts. It works for my playstyle, it may not apply to the majority of people in this community._ Im playing lux A LOT, and I agree. What you say is absolutely right. Extremely strong combo for the bot lane. Very very opressive playstyle, that few compilations can match. You will end on top after the laning phase in most cases. But... I do not like caitlyn carries. I enjoy the company of people who can get hyper carry... Jinx, Jhin, Kogmaw... Especially kog... I am not saying it is bad to play cait. It is just that the champion struggles to transfer this early game power into late game, and become a hyper-carry. Sometimes because of people getting over-confident, sometimes simply because the design of the champion is like that... You know, when I see {{champion:516}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:154}} ... I know that it will be a problem for cait, and we need to get damage from aditional source to handle the situation. While at the same time, I know that {{champion:96}} will melt through all of them, while I am doing my best to peel for him. But I have to admit that games are not going always that long, and in case thay are decided earlier - obviously cait has the advantage. I see pluses and minuses, and this is why I cannot say what is "best".
> [{quoted}](name=JustClone,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1A8rjz28,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-08T12:48:44.824+0000) > > I am not saying it is bad to play cait. It is just that the champion struggles to transfer this early game power into late game, and become a hyper-carry. Sometimes because of people getting over-confident, sometimes simply because the design of the champion is like that... Okay, I think I understand why you feel this way. I've switched from adc to top lately so, I was getting other players playing Caitlyn in my team and frankly .. most of them were terrible. Many of them had no idea about the build, I saw one guy build Botrk which is just super bad on Cait especially against non tanky teams. Many of these players had no idea about animation cancelling with Cait. They were clueless with trap placements and their positioning too. Caitlyn is very difficult to play optimally, even more so than Vayne and Kai'Sa, it looks like most players just aren't good enough for it.
Bæka (EUW)
: Yeah her kit seems to be more support-like
She was designed to be more of a support because Riot wanted her to be able to lane beside Lucian. Looking at her kit, I have a feeling that she is going to have similar problems as Pyke. She will probably be OP on release and will be played as adc as well as in solo lanes and Riot will nerf her down to force her into support role.
Šternberg (EUNE)
: Heartseeker and phoenix are great imo. :)
It's about getting new skins :P Quinn is past 1000 days without a new skin now.
EutDesu (EUW)
: Senna being a support over adc.
Don't quote me on this but I've heard that Riot said if Senna has balance problems, they will most likely nerf her adc aspects so, she'll be more of a support, similar to Pyke. Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much. Senna's kit has just too much utility to allow her to remain a proper adc. She'll be nerfed quickly if she becomes viable as proper adc.
Reverse (EUW)
: make a good quinn skin
She is not popular enough to get a skin. However, she was played in the Worlds so, there is a slight chance she might get a skin in next few patches but if she doesn't, I doubt she will get a skin anytime soon.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Ok, I will comment on it, but disclaimer first: _100% my oppinion, not facts. It works for my playstyle, it may not apply to the majority of people in this community._ Im playing lux A LOT, and I agree. What you say is absolutely right. Extremely strong combo for the bot lane. Very very opressive playstyle, that few compilations can match. You will end on top after the laning phase in most cases. But... I do not like caitlyn carries. I enjoy the company of people who can get hyper carry... Jinx, Jhin, Kogmaw... Especially kog... I am not saying it is bad to play cait. It is just that the champion struggles to transfer this early game power into late game, and become a hyper-carry. Sometimes because of people getting over-confident, sometimes simply because the design of the champion is like that... You know, when I see {{champion:516}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:154}} ... I know that it will be a problem for cait, and we need to get damage from aditional source to handle the situation. While at the same time, I know that {{champion:96}} will melt through all of them, while I am doing my best to peel for him. But I have to admit that games are not going always that long, and in case thay are decided earlier - obviously cait has the advantage. I see pluses and minuses, and this is why I cannot say what is "best".
> But... I do not like caitlyn carries. I enjoy the company of people who can get hyper carry... Jinx, Jhin, Kogmaw... Especially kog... Caitlyn is a hyper carry herself. You might be surprised to hear this but Caitlyn is one of the top adc's by win rate late game. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/chm6wk/best_and_worst_adcs_in_patch_914_depending_on/ You can see she is ranked 3rd by win rate in 40+ min games which is super late game where people will have 5-6 items. Remember, this was patch 9.14. She was slightly buffed in 9.18 while few other ADC's got nerfed. Also, both Kog and Vayne have lower pick rates than Caitlyn, especially Kog. If you adjust for pick rates, I wouldn't be surprised if Caitlyn jumps to rank 2 or even 1 in 40+ min games and rank 3-6 in 30-40 min games. > I am not saying it is bad to play cait. It is just that the champion struggles to transfer this early game power into late game, and become a hyper-carry. Sometimes because of people getting over-confident, sometimes simply because the design of the champion is like that... You are not wrong to feel that way. It is the case because Caitlyn has one of the worst mid games out of all adc's. This is why it is important for Caitlyn to win the lane. Caitlyn requires good strategic thinking and maneuvering, a skill majority of the playerbase lacks. She also kinda needs hard cc from team mates to set up her traps in team fights as traps are very important for her mid game. Also, Caitlyn is actually very hard to play optimally, even more than Vayne. That is why you'll often see people winning early with her and then failing. > You know, when I see{{champion:516}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:31}} ... I know that it will be a problem for cait, and we need to get damage from aditional source to handle the situation. They will not be a problem for Cait unless they get fed early game and Cait doesn't but in this case almost every adc that is not Kog and Vayne will struggle. I've struggled against fed tanks as Trist/Xayah/Kai'Sa/Jhin etc. and have seen enemies struggling against my allied fed tanks on these adc's as well. Cait doesn't melt tanks like Vayne and Kog but she is not the worst adc when it comes to dealing with tanks either. > While at the same time, I know that {{champion:96}} will melt through all of them, while I am doing my best to peel for him. Well, it is kind of unfair to judge Caitlyn by this metric because Kog and Vayne are made to shred tanks. No other adc comes close to them in this regard, not even someone like Kai'Sa. Kog might shred tanks but he has big problems with survivability, even with good peel, he has a super low pick rate for a reason. As I've said, a good Caitlyn won't have massive problems against tanks unless they are fed. > But I have to admit that games are not going always that long, and in case thay are decided earlier - obviously cait has the advantage. Caitlyn is actually one of the best adc's late game. Her problem is and has always been her lackluster mid game. > I see pluses and minuses, and this is why I cannot say what is "best". Yeah and you are correct on this. I do not say Caitlyn is the best adc or anything, I am just saying that she makes one of the best combos on bot lane with Morg/Lux. Anything beyond lane phase is a random fiesta in soloQ anyway. Peace =)
JustClone (EUNE)
: You are absolutely right about Rakan-Xayah combo. As you can see here: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/counters/xayah Rakan is far away from the best choice, when picking a support for xayah. I have mixed feelings about the rest of your comment thou, so I will not comment it.
Of course. I've played Xayah with Rakan plenty of times and it never felt anything special to me. I've had more success playing her with Naut and Leo. I can understand why you're having mixed feelings about the rest of my comment. Sadly, Caitlyn hasn't been anywhere near as popular as she used to be. So, you don't often get to see a good Cait with Morg/Lux. But I can assure you, Cait+Morg/Lux is one of the best combos on the bot lane. You should give it a try if you play Cait or Morg/Lux.
: Eh when I’ve played it it’s been extremely strong, I’m not even a xayah player and I excelled with it. Caitlyn is all about her range, level 1-2 shes not actually all that strong pound for pound it’s just that she out ranges litterally everyone... similar for Morgana and lux it’s mainly their range and cc that gives them power. The interesting thing about xayah and rakan is that due to how xayah’s W works they actually get 3 abilities between them at level 1 as rakan essentially gets her W as well... so in level 1 fights especially if rakan can land a W they immediately have more raw damage than everyone else... and level 2 (which they can push for pretty easily with xayah’s passive) they’ve got 2 easy to chain cc abilities 3 high damage sources, and either a heal or shield... that’s their strengh. So like I said doesn’t actually take that much coordination, at least no more than either of them playing these lanes individually... it just requires a good rakan to navigate the match up with caitlyn and lux/morg well enough... in a straight up fight not much can actually beat them bot lane
Idk man, I've heard that the combo used to be OP but then they nerfed it(?). I am not sure since I only recently came back to the League. Yeah, I know how Xayah's W works since I play her myself. All I can say is that my personal experience with Rakan-Xayah combo hasn't been very good. I remember playing vs Xayah-Rakan as Caitlyn with Lux support not long ago and we totally stomped them in the lane, going something like 6-0 and first turret in 15 min. Caitlyn is not just all about her range, though its definitely one of her strengths. Caitlyn has incredible kill pressure early game with her traps and headshots. Morgana and Lux work with her so good because once they land their root, its almost a guaranteed trap and kill from thereon for Caitlyn. In fact, level 1 invades with Morgana/Lux and Caitlyn can be one of the scariest invades you can have. I personally fear Caitlyn+Morgana far more than any other combo on bot lane including Xayah-Rakan. All it takes is one root and you are most likely dead.
: Xayah rakan is still the strongest 2v2 possible in the game... you can easily kill your opponents as early as level 1 with a good set up and their level 2 powerspike is massive. And doesn’t take that much communication... no more than having rakan be with any adc really your doing all the same things but just stronger.
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1A8rjz28,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T16:23:23.132+0000) > > Xayah rakan is still the strongest 2v2 possible in the game... you can easily kill your opponents as early as level 1 with a good set up and their level 2 powerspike is massive. > And doesn’t take that much communication... no more than having rakan be with any adc really your doing all the same things but just stronger. I personally feel {{champion:51}}+ {{champion:25}} {{champion:99}} can be just as if not more strong than Xayah and Rakan at level 1/2. I've played Xayah with random Rakans in soloQ and I never felt the combo was anything special. In fact, last time I played Xayah with Rakan, we got massively screwed in lane by a Caitlyn and Lulu. I really feel like the combo is strong in pro play but rather overrated for soloQ. Even Xayah mains sub reddit agreed with me on this.
: And yet she’s one of the strongest early game bullies in the bot lane thanks to rakan... so that whole weak early game barely even exists
> [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1A8rjz28,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T15:38:33.948+0000) > > And yet she’s one of the strongest early game bullies in the bot lane thanks to rakan... so that whole weak early game barely even exists Lmao I wouldn't call her lane bully but her early game is definitely not the worst among adc's. If you know how to properly use your feathers to zone off the enemies, you can easily survive till 6 and maybe even score a kill or two. Also, Xayah-Rakan combo doesn't work as good in soloQ as it does in pro play because you kinda need communication for that.
: Does not change the fact that early game is total bs. Everyone jumps on you before L6, you'r dead. Basically walking gold bag. Outside of proplay, somebody jumps on you off R, you'r dead. Outside of proplay, you got a trash player on your side, you lose game automatically. Won't be able to get any late game.
> [{quoted}](name=galoisgroup,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1A8rjz28,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-07T14:21:37.743+0000) > > Does not change the fact that early game is total bs. Everyone jumps on you before L6, you'r dead. Basically walking gold bag. I can say the same for many other adc's. Even Kai'Sa would be dead if somebody jumps on her pre 6. Xayah's early game is decent. You are supposed to use your feathers to zone the enemies and keep them from engaging on you. Xayah also has pretty good kill pressure in lane due to her root. > Outside of proplay, somebody jumps on you off R, you'r dead. Use your root maybe? Every champion has to have a weakness. You are supposed to play around her ult's cooldown. And almost every adc would die as well if somebody jumps on them while their alone. Don't see any problem here. >Outside of proplay, you got a trash player on your side, you lose game automatically. Won't be able to get any late game. That goes for every ADC though. It's not something Xayah special.
: She isn’t a teamfight adc, nor is lucien... if that was the case why isn’t mf played. It’s because she has the single strongest safety tool of any adc, which effectively makes her the hardest adc to kill and therefore snowballs the strongest. That’s why she’s always played in pro play because her ult is stupidly powerful
Exactly. And on top of that she scales into a hypercarry. Xayah is just too busted. I hope they nerf her hard and I don't have to see her again for a while.
: Obviously, ANY teamfight adc will be picked MORE at proplay level. Simply because of teamfight aspect. That is why Lucian got nerfed to death multiple times, but devs always wake up and bump him back. That is just the nature of things in proplay, it's different from yoloQ. They can only do ONE thing about that, give more teamfight powers to EVERY adc.
Nah, teamfighting is not the reason why Kai'Sa and Xayah are so contested in pro play. In fact, they aren't even the best teamfighting adc's in the game. Kog/Twitch/Jinx are all better in teamfights than Kai'Sa and Xayah. Caitlyn/Ashe/Varus etc. can match their teamfight potential as well. Kai'Sa and Xayah are so contested in pro play because they have very good self peel along with scaling and damage. A Jinx is not going to carry teamfights if she gets blown up in 1 second. That is where Xayah and Kai'Sa come in. They can avoid getting blown up instantly and continue to deal damage.
: Because in pro-play they pick simple and reliable champs. "Press R to win". "Poke Q to win". "Push to win". Nothing really strong about these champs, except that those were kinda "prone to mistakes". Much more easier to screw on other ADCs. Instead of making champion design more complex, Rito strips mechanics from those champs, making it even harder to balance. Like they completely stripped value of Kaisa E, and it will create huge troubles with her balance. It's much more easier to balance complex champion, because there is more variables to change. In fact, how will you balance Sivir? Strip waveclear - winrate 20%. Buff waveclear - winrate 80%. Waveclear is basically the only one variable left there. Everything else was stripped away. Same with Xayah, they intentionally made her only viable with only LT keystone, thus making her only play Q-LT-AAA. If this play nerfed, champion is zero. They just were stripping her again and again and this play is the only one left. Single variable left for balancing.
> [{quoted}](name=galoisgroup,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=1A8rjz28,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-07T10:03:59.425+0000) > > Because in pro-play they pick simple and reliable champs. > "Press R to win". "Poke Q to win". "Push to win". Actually, pros don't pick simple champions because straight forward kits rarely work in co-ordinated environment. That is why you rarely see champions like Malphite in pro play who can otherwise terrorize soloQ. As for reliable champions - yes pros pick reliable champions because they want to win at any cost. > Instead of making champion design more complex, Rito strips mechanics from those champs, making it even harder to balance. Like they completely stripped value of Kaisa E, and it will create huge troubles with her balance. It's much more easier to balance complex champion, because there is more variables to change. You got it totally wrong. Newer champions have been more and more complex than old champions. Riot cannot make champions overly complex because such champions tend to be very hard to balance. Such champions generally end up being OP in high elo and lackluster in lower elos. They have to go for a healthy mix of complex and simple mechanics all the while keeping balance in mind. > In fact, how will you balance Sivir? Strip waveclear - winrate 20%. Buff waveclear - winrate 80%. Waveclear is basically the only one variable left there. Everything else was stripped away. Look my point above. Sivir is one of the oldest champion in game. That is why her kit is rather simple and one dimensional. Compare her to someone like Kalista who was released much later and you'll see Kalista's kit is more complex but at the same time Kalista is also more harder to balance than Sivir is. > Same with Xayah, they intentionally made her only viable with only LT keystone, thus making her only play Q-LT-AAA. If this play nerfed, champion is zero. They just were stripping her again and again and this play is the only one left. Single variable left for balancing. No doub Xayah relies on LT a lot but she has many other strengths than just abusing LT. She is pick or ban in pro play for a reason.
: I don't understand this Rito balance ideas
ADC meta in pro play was pretty much limited to Kai'Sa/Sivir and Ez. Riot wanted more diversity so, they decided to buff bunch of other ADC's and nerf Sivir/Ez but instead of the meta becoming diverse, it only became even worse and we got stuck with Xayah and Kai'Sa being picked or banned in every pro game. So, to answer your question - Riot wanted more ADC diversity which is why they buffed Xayah earlier along with bunch of other ADC's. They were expecting other ADC's like Caitlyn, Jhin, Ashe to be played as well. However, that didn't happen and Xayah/Kai'Sa took over the ADC meta so, they are nerfing her now. Honestly, you should be glad that she is not receiving any huge nerfs (yet). Though I have a feeling that she will get nerfed some even more. Other ADC's have being nerfed hard for much less in the past. Riot doesn't like few ADC's taking over the meta. They gutted Caitlyn and Kalista for the same reason in the past. Also, Xayah is not close ranged ADC. She is pseudo close ranged. Her feathers extend to over 900 range which allows her to control the area well beyond her auto attack range. Xayah has been ruling the pro scene and soloQ to some extent for over 12+ patches now. That is not nerfing her 'immediately' lol.
Anaspida (EUW)
: https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Camille_0.jpg honestly, she looks 25-35, at least they didn't dare give her 2 balloons
Nah, she looks more like 35-45. As I said, she is not a normal human being. She is modified via hextech so, yeah she is not going to look like an actual grandma. There is nothing wrong in having big breasts though. It's not like women in real life don't have big breasts. And there are male champions whose pecs are larger than breasts of female champions lol.
: Do players ever get punished for leaving games?
Depends on what you mean by 'leaving games'. Leaving games as in disconnecting and not coming back for more than 5 min+? Yes they get punished by the leaverbuster system. Leaving games as in afk farming/walking around doing nothing/rage splitting etc.? No, they don't get punished because the system does not consider them afk and as long as they didn't flame in chat, they don't get punished.
: Lethality nerfs?
AFAIK he is getting reworked next year along with Diana.
: Where did Senna came from, possibly..
I used to play TERA and when I saw Senna's gun, this was the first thing that came to my mind.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: an ACTUAL old grandma champ Not some attractive lady that might as well be 20, but riot says that she's old {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Idk what you're on about but she certainly doesn't look like 20. She's not very attractive either. She doesn't look like an actual grandma because she is sort of a cyborg, modified by hextech.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: I'm still waiting for an Old Lady character like Ana in OW
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=Anl0rreh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-30T13:11:47.650+0000) > > I'm still waiting for an Old Lady character like Ana in OW {{champion:164}} ?
Santinel (EUW)
: Except for the fact Caitlyn is an all-time solid pick in bot lane with decent winrate, gameplay, scaling etc. Kalista has none of that so that's just a poor argument.
I wasn't making an argument, I was just using Caitlyn as an example lmao. I am simply saying that Kalista is balanced around pro play. If you buff her, she'll legit take over the meta and become pick or ban. Riot has explicitly stated this. Her kit is problematic and she is just too hard to balance. They will only give her small buffs which won't change much. Also, Idk if you know this or not but Caitlyn has been in a bad spot for a long time since s6. It was only until recently that she got buffed while other adc's simultaneously got nerfed that she started coming back in the game and she is yet to see any substantial pro play. Riot refused to buff her for long time for the same reason they refuse to buff Kalista - they don't want these adc's taking over pro play bot lane meta. I said Kalista is more pronounced in that regard than Caitlyn. Don't know what was so confusing.
Santinel (EUW)
: 2-3 items was I guess a bit too positive from me. The thing is - I can bring up champions like Tristana, Xayah, Caitlyn who are not only great late-game champions but are also super scary(if they aren't behind) at 2 items. Kalista doesn't even have like half of their damage or the ability to scale. I feel like you could give the same amount of gold (let's say something like 3k for early game, 8k for mid game, and about 14k for late game) to all the marksmen in the game and Kalista would do less damage in early game than about 60% of all the marksmen, 80% less in mid game and 100% less in late game because I honestly can't find worse late game marksman than her.
I play all the adc's you mentioned and trust me none of them (especially Cait) are scary with 2 items unless they are snowballing. They all need 3 items to start doing good DPS against non squishy targets. Back to the topic at hand, Kalista is balanced around pro play. Caitlyn and Kalista are similar in one aspect - when they are strong, they quickly take over the meta and become pick or ban. Riot hates them because of that and they have explicitly stated it. They are just too difficult to balance properly. Buff them and they become OP, nerf them and there is literally no reason to pick them. They are either OP or too weak, there is rarely a middle ground. This is even more pronounced in Kalista's case than Caitlyn. They cannot really buff Kalista because it would make her pick or ban in pro play. Caitlyn was weak after s6/s7 for the same reason. Even now, Riot has stated that they are wary of buffing her because they don't want her to take over bot lane meta. Same goes for Kalista. The only way to solve this issue is to have a rework for Kalista. But Riot has been ignoring the whole ADC role for some time now so, don't get your hopes up.
Santinel (EUW)
: Can we talk about Kalista
> [{quoted}](name=Santinel,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=cFHUTGWZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-27T14:26:25.851+0000) > like early game is alright but you need like 2-3 completed items(not counting boots) to be relevant out of the lane That's true for like almost every ADC though. Even someone like Vayne doesn't deal a lot of damage with her %hp true dmg without 2-3 items.
: league officially is an immortal game similar to TF2 now , that game has been said to be dead for ages , still going strong after almost 12 years
Nothing is immortal.
: Kai'sa - why AP?
Most people actually build her hybrid, not full AP. The build generally goes like this - {{item:3004}}->{{item:3124}} ->{{item:3115}} ->3rd and 4th items are situational but are generally two out of these {{item:3157}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3046}}{{item:3085}} {{item:3031}} . The reasons to do so are - Her passive scales off AP. - It makes it harder to itemize against her as she does mixed damage. - It allows her to build items like {{item:3157}} and/or {{item:3102}} which are pretty damn OP as they provide both defense and offense. - It allows for all 3 evolution's. An AD build will only be able to evolve Q and E while a hybrid or AP build can evolve all 3 abilities.
: Jinx is really OP and needs changes
They should remove the attack speed bonus from her passive. Increase movement speed bonus to compensate or slightly buff the attack speed of rockets. She'll be fine then.
Rioter Comments
WC9 Umbra (EUW)
: there is a slight difference between botlanes in gold and dia 2
That's not the point. The point is, dia 2 adc would not be able to carry a dia 2 game if his top/mid fed their ass off. Games nowadays are coinflip and the 1v5 days are long gone. The game is a lot more team dependent now. You have to hope your team mates don't int and aren't brain dead to win. Fun fact, I actually won a game against dia 2 adc smurf about 2 weeks ago because his top and jungle fed my team like 20 kills in 25 min.
MSF Akito (EUW)
: So let me get this straight.. Fogged had 4 inting teammates. And he still won.. and you complain about it, because it was difficult for him? This video literally shows you that you can win ANY game if you're good enough. Thats a good thing in my opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=MSF Akito,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=3JLHYOPM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:28:51.866+0000)> >This video literally shows you that you can win ANY game if you're good enough. Thats a good thing in my opinion. Every game is not winnable. Even pro players occasionally lose games in Bronze. This is a 5v5 game, not 1v1. There is only so much a one player can do. Also, this depends on the champion/role too. Tryndamere can 1v2/3+ and carry but someone like Maokai might not be able to do that. If you are better than your current elo you will win majority of your games but saying you can win any game is bullshit, especially with how coinflip games nowadays are.
WC9 Umbra (EUW)
: yes too many coinflips i agree. im d2 and its disgusting to play ranked as a toplaner. Enemy bot fed -> you loose your bot fed -> you winn
> [{quoted}](name=One Dunk Man,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=3JLHYOPM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:37:07.993+0000) > > yes too many coinflips i agree. > im d2 and its disgusting to play ranked as a toplaner. > > Enemy bot fed -> you loose > > your bot fed -> you winn As an adc main, that is how I feel about my mid and top Enemy top/mid fed - I loose. My top/mid fed - I win. At least you can split push as a top laner. As an adc, you are pretty much a sitting duck if your team is feeding and doesn't back you.
: Caitlyn - pros, cons, advice
> [{quoted}](name=LeraUltrakill,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2GaGM70A,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-01T21:03:03.661+0000) > > inability to make plays on her own, and due to this depending nearly ENTIRELY on her support for kills. This has nothing to do with Caitlyn. This is true for almost every ADC. That is just how ADC role works nowadays, it has little to no agency and has to depend on support/team a lot. Supports often decide the outcome of the bot lane. > How is she in the current meta? Some people said she's near useless. She is fine, not OP or top tier pick though. Her problem is that she has to win her lane or she gets out scaled by almost every ADC in the mid game. Her late game is strong but not strong enough to justify that power dip in the mid game. She is supposedly going to get buffed though so, she might soon become a top tier pick. Overall she's a good pick and if you're confident in your support to make plays, she is very good as she has strong early and snowballs fast.
: u cant freeze the lane if the support push it
That's exactly why I began my post with 'you don't carry such games'. People love to blame the ADC when bot lane is lost but the truth is bot lane is 80% about support. A good support with bad adc will pretty much always win over a bad support with good adc.
Pixelbits (EUW)
: How do you solo carry a game as ADC when your support is a complete potato and there is no peel?
Simply put - you don't. There is a reason why most smurf ADC's duo when they smurf and why most boosters don't play ADC when boosting. The role is garbage for carrying, let alone solo carrying. If you still want to try, freeze the lane near your turret, farm up and scale. Pray to god that your team doesn't feed and you can make it to late game. After that, try to do as much damage as possible while using your team as meat shield. If the enemy team has assassins and divers who decide to focus you, there is nothing much you can do without peel and help. Just try to do as much damage as possible before dying.
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Nar7ia

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