: Why repeat what has already been said thousand times
Haha why not? that's the only thing people do on the community
: OP asked for opinions. shooting mine down solves nothing. and insulting me and the way i think definitely don't help this.
sorry man wasn't meant as an insult but if you wanna have a converstion someone gotta have a different opinion
: not afraid to say i voted no. reason: it's like real life, rules are rules. if one breaks the rules of their country, they get put away, repeated felony gets punished by more and more "vacation" time. in the end. even a real life justice department will get enough of seeing the same felony being committed again and again by the same person, and lastly it will result in a life sentencing. same for the game, yes, only a game, but facts still remains the same, demoralizing the team is a felony within the game, be it through chat or other means. therefore i personally think the system should not remove the permanent ban procedure for chat-related felonies, and chat-related felonies are by far more common than inters, trolls and afk players combined.
In which world do you live where punishments can't change in any way depending on the situation? in most parts of the world rules are just a reason to get punished while the punishment can be wildly diverse, even a lifetime sentence in real life can get changed after enough good behavior and enough passed time so why would it not be the same in a silly game?
: > I'd also like to mention that my own permaban has nothing to do with the idea, because I never had one. Try again :P
who sits around thinking about that before getting banned themselves?
: > can you without lying say that you know how it feels to get banned? Of course not. I can relate, because I talked to literally thousands of banned players, but of course I don't know the feeling directly. You are 100% right about that. I just have my doubts if the feelings of the permabanned player is the most relevant factor. I know this sounds harsh and of course it has SOME relevance, but it's not really priority number one. And I think you also need to try to see it from another perspective. Not my perspective, but the perspective of other permabanned players. You are not exactly a representative example of this kind of player. You seem like a rather intelligent and calm guy...characteristics that do not apply to the vast majority of permabanned players. If there would be a system for permabanned players (to get their accounts back), it would have to consider both groups...and consider the fact that the lying, deceiving and aggressive group is the much bigger one. So when you try to think of a solution for unbanning permabanned players, you don't only have to consider people like yourself, but also people who will fake being nice for a while just to get their account back, try to find way to be jerks without being caught, and will try to play the system in any possible way to get what they want with no regard to the wellbeing of other players and will NEVER truly reform, because this is sadly the standard that applies to most of the permabanned players. I completely agree with you that there should be some way for truly reformed players to get their account back (or maybe just SOMETHING from their old account)...but the main problem is to identify the "truly reformed" ones without harming other players. And that is a difficult problem to tackle.
I couldn't really tell if you were Ironic about my characteristics but I'll take it as a compliment and say thank you. > And I think you also need to try to see it from another perspective. Not my perspective, but the perspective of other permabanned players. You are not exactly a representative example of this kind of player. when you put it that way i kinda realize that not everyone is capable of reforming themselves and this make me feel bad about the way i've been so ignorant towards you. Some people never change and as you said in the end it would be almost impossible to separate reformed players from the lying, deceiving and aggressive fake nice players, as you said i can see the biggest part of the Permabanned players are nothing but scums willing to do almost anything to continue flaming etcetera. When i thought about this i didn't really think about the way people act for their own winning only and as i said before it makes me sorry for the actions I took against you and others.
Mc Truck (EUW)
: I doubt they think it's impossible. They just think it's not worth it.
maybe so, they probably have bigger problems to work with (removing zoe) or something along that line, all to skip this
: i wouldnt call the typical lol permbanned player “strongwilled”
i can only work from my own experiences but i am leveling my new account atm without feeling down that much
: > but is the message really quit playing our game? Yep, that is indeed Riots intention. And in many cases it also works. Obviously not for everyone, but for many players, losing their account is too much to take to continue playing. They still CAN of course...but most of them simply don't want to anymore.
huh? does people really quit the game because they lose their acc? thought people were more strong willed than that but well then
Mc Truck (EUW)
: Horrible, yes. Because riot didn't implement it properly. That experiment was was set and executed so badly, any sufficiently advanced nerd could do better.
Riot has tried most things and failed and therefore it is impossible by their standards.
: Did anyone stop you from sharing and discussing your ideas freely? I don't think so. But you have to live with the fact that people don't necessarily share your opinion and argue against it. This has nothing to do with "shooting you down", it's a perfectly normal thing in a discussion and absolutely in line with what you said yourself: > nobody is going to blame you for your opinion, we are all free people with the right to say what we think So please don't get angry and attack me personally (I'm referring to your first sentence here) just because I do exactly what is so important to you: Saying what I think. I just happen to disagree with you. And just because I was not banned my opinion is invalid all of a sudden? How exactly does that fit your credo that we all have the right to share our opinion?
your opinion is not invalid but can you without lying say that you know how it feels to get banned? no i think not, and therefore why would you even want to change my mind when you know nothing of my reasons and thoughts? and wait a minute are you proposing that was an insult? it was meerely me chuckling at the fact people think reading something is the same as experiencing it. i know you have a lot of experience as the second person hearing from others and studying others but that is nowhere equal to experiencing pain yourself. you disagreeing with me is something i like tho, if everyone thought the same the community would be rather bleak. don't remember me saying i couldn't post my posts or saying what i want but when someone posts something looking for other players opinions and a moderator joins just to say everything you think is totally wrong i get kinda pissed, that said you should be able to join the conversation and either give me feedback about what i do right or tell me what i am doing wrong but as a fellow player not a God
Mc Truck (EUW)
: A small nitpick - you will get reported, even if you are the second incarnation of Jesus. Bad criteria.
Hold up, i didn't mean being reported in that way, i maybe said it in the wrong way and ment facing any kind of restriction or ban, like if you are afk and get's placed in low priority queue or chat ban.
Mc Truck (EUW)
: Nicely worded, I like it. That's a nice solution that would focus on reforming a player. But it definitely removes the message "please, quit playing our game". If rito is fine parting with such message, your solution is great.
but is the message really quit playing our game? you can just make a new account anyways so people will continue plaaying if they feel like doing so.
: > inferior results Horrible results would be more precise. > that doesn't change my opinions in any way Not changing your mind when faced with contradicting facts is NOT a good character trait! But, back to your argument: No, I don't think they should get icons (or anything) back. It is a punishment after all, it is supposed to be very unpleasant. It's not supposed to be convenient for the punished player.
Haha acting like a big guy huh? if you have zero experience of being banned you can't go around and try to change my mind about how i feel about it, of course i change my mind when faced with enough facts but just because someone has tried something and failed does not mean it will never work. to change your mind everytime someone says something against you is a really bad character trait, if we never look forward for a goal and keep fighting for it we will never reach it either will we? You know i was banned and i am not looking for sympathy, im only looking for future options for me and others. And last but not least, if no one mentions their ideas because a guy online will shoot them down the community will never grow and the game won't change the way the players want, this being said i don't mean all our ideas are good i just mean we need to be able to post them.
: Well, by the way you worded it I assume you disbelieve me, so here I'll provide proof [https://prnt.sc/kvyljj](https://prnt.sc/kvyljj) However, if i just misunderstood and you jsut meant that'd you'd love to have that much fps in your own games, then sry for misunderstanding you xD
hmm read about it and just got surprised by that fps when people with gtx 1080 got lower, but then i saw a post about league having bad optimization for the newest graphics cards. thank you for the screenshot tho, one of the highest fps i have seen actually.
: No
a little more precise maybe? why even comment on my opinion if it makes no difference? if you have something to say bout it say it!
Cypherous (EUW)
: > then look at the other alternative that you just get some parts of it back after you display that you have changed and is ready to behave. That still defeats the point of the punishment, break the rules you lose the account, you knew what you were getting yourself in to ahead of time, you don't get a permaban on your first offence so if you have displayed an inability to reform 3 times prior to the perma then its not worth wasting the effort on, besides its already been tested, didn't stick > look at prisons for example, they are meant to put the players on a new path and even lifetime sentences can get removed after the right amount of years so why would not accounts in a game do? Because "life imprisonment" isn't actually "life", it depends on the minimum term set by the judge and whole-life orders aren't usually given out except in more extreme cases, in this case the permanent ban is a whole-life order without parole
but does it really? making someone able to get parts of their identity back after they have redone everything else in their account, i mean if you manage to get an equal copy of the account it's quite the same, as many champs and the same level. After all that you still don't think you should be able to get your icons back? I do know it has been tested with inferior results but that doesn't change my opinions in any way, if you do not think it is justified then don't, nobody is going to blame you for your opinion, we are all free people with the right to say what we think (to some limits of course)
: Players have a chance to avoid getting banned as they got punished at least once before getting perma banned in most case, so people who get perma banned have used their second chance already.
maybe so but getting back your account after achieving level 70+ on a new account without ever getting reported maybe shows that you can handle being in a team and therefore why not get back at least some parts of your account if not all. i mean look at your own level 96, if you done the same leveling again starting from scratch without even a single bad conduct i think it would be justified. but that is just my opinion, not everybody shares the same opinions you know?
Cypherous (EUW)
: > What if you get permanently banned and realizes that you were very childish and dumb but can't do anything about it, well here is my thoughts on the matter, there SHOULD be a way to revert a permanent ban. Defeats the point of calling it a permanent ban, punishments only mean something when you lose something
then look at the other alternative that you just get some parts of it back after you display that you have changed and is ready to behave. look at prisons for example, they are meant to put the players on a new path and even lifetime sentences can get removed after the right amount of years so why would not accounts in a game do? Do we kill prisoners just because they did something wrong? NO we do not because the intention of punishments is for people to change in some way for the better.
: No, I have never banned myself. However, I do have quite a lot of experience with the topic. * I wrote my bachelor thesis about player behavior in League (Psychology) * I have been active in the player behavior forums for 8 years, trying to help banned/punished/toxic players * I worked on some projects with Riots PB team (like the homepage you just saw) * I visited Riot a few times * I work in the gaming industry (not for Riot though) * I represent my company in the[ Fair Play Alliance](http://www.fairplayalliance.org/) * And last but not least: It's just my hobby. I love it, I find it super interesting
: Emissaries are one of three groups in the Riot Volunteer Program: Wrenchmen (technical stuff), Emissaries (Community Stuff) & Adjudicator (Esport). We are volunteers, so we are not payed and we do not work for Riot. At the very best we work with Riot, however with the strict rule that Riot can't tell us what to do. We do all kinds of stuff, from basic stuff like forum moderation over contests and tournaments to more complex projects, some of them public, some internal. A lot of info about us can be found on the homepage you just visited. "Senior" just means that I am in a sort of "managing" position, i.e. I recruit & train new volunteers and try to organize things.
It was kinda hard to find what I were looking for among 700 sources and i did not even know where to begin. I see you writing in a lot of topics especially in behaviour and bans etc. but what is your own experience in this matter? ever had a suspension or ban?
: 1. Game is from 2009, that's a 9 year difference to modern games. 2. Riot did a really great job in optimizing League of Legends, so much, that even a potato could run it with 30 fps. The reason why people spend 1000 bucks on high end gtx graphic cards is so that they can play modern games on maxed settings, while still having stable fps. Also it's not really thousand bucks. the gtx 1080 costs only around 500$ while cards like the 1050 TI can be gotten for around 109$ (or optionally the 980 if you don't need to use the card for other stuff aside from gaming) Let's take The Witcher 3 for example, a game from 2015. My old graphics card, a 820 couldn't even launch the game on it's Minimum Settings (Well, I could get into the game for like 5 seconds before it crashed), my current 1050 Ti runs it smoothly on maxed settings at 100+ FPS Or another example being Black Desert Online. With my 1050 i can run at at 60+ FPS on Ultra settings, even during PVP and raids, and even if I go into Movie Mode (The mode that cranks the graphics up even higher, more than Ultra mode xD it's basically on hollywood movie quality that way) I still get 30 FPS. As for league, i am currently getting 380-400 FPS
380-400 fps on maxed settings? i would sure love to see that myself dude
: There is actually quite a lot. Riot always was pretty open about this and collaborated with a lot of universities and external experts. There are A LOT of sources about this topic and we tried to collect all of them (roughly 700) here: https://en.volu-eu.org/library.php
Quick question tho, What is a Senior Emissary? are you related to riot games and why? not meant as an attack in any way at all, I just think it's confusing with all different tags
: There is actually quite a lot. Riot always was pretty open about this and collaborated with a lot of universities and external experts. There are A LOT of sources about this topic and we tried to collect all of them (roughly 700) here: https://en.volu-eu.org/library.php
Oh thank you very much!
: Well, not really your fault. It's just that Riot has a dedicated team of specialists researching this for almost a decade now. So it's not really a surprise that any idea a player gets after 30 seconds of thinking was already considered by an entire team of people who did nothing else but thinking about this topic for almost ten years^^ Contrary to what some people say, Riot is not stupid and they do think about the problems that exist in League.
Is it possible that can you see the result of their research? not in the way of changes in the game but rather in text. old attempts at tackling this problem etc.
Endellion (EUW)
: They tried something very much similar to that (make a new account and get it to level 20 {I think}) a while ago when Riot Lyte was in charge of the behavioral program. On an ask.fm account he said this: >We actually tried this a few years ago and called it the "Last Chance Program." >It was a colossal failure. Only 5% of players successfully reformed after a permanent ban (which means they had a pretty severe offense), and the other 95% of players created extremely toxic experiences for new players in the game. >Because of this experiment, the policy is to never unlock permanent bans, and they will remain a very meaningful and significant consequence of severe toxicity. Sorry, but what you are asking has been tried, it failed dismally and so it won't be tried again unless Riot has a massive change in direction of how people are being punished.
hmm why has everyone of my ideas already failed before i even think them?
Rioter Comments
: > can you get a permanent chat ban? No. Riot once tested this and they noticed that people who get very long chat restrictions tend to switch to alternative behavior to express their aggression, like inting, trolling or going afk. The problem about long term chat restrictions is that they don't fix the actual problem (the anger issues/lack of self control) but just silence a specific symptom of it. In addition they noticed that those super long restrictions did nothing in term of (positively) changing peoples behavior. In other words: The are a useless and potentially dangerous form of punishment.
hmm i thought that it would work really well but apparantly not then. but then also if someone gave me a chat restriction i would be glad, i can't stop the urge to write shit to others but if i couldn't write i would keep the anger to myself
: That would not be very attractive for actually toxic player. After all they WANT to attack people, so why would they join a channel where no one feels attacked?
for people like me who are angry and know That they will rage if something goes wrong but without having the intetion of hurting others. but just to feel better about themself. also you seem to know, can you get a permanent chat ban?
: The problem here is that it's not about using mature words. That is not really a problem, most people don't mind cursing at all and it's not punished. What is punished is being a jerk, no matter which words you are using for it. So an "mature chat channel" wouldn't really change anything.
hmm good point... but i mean a channel where it's okey to offend others abd get offended because you have to accept these terms to join it, maybe even send people who flame to this channel
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: I was born old. All of my friends wanted to be policemen, firemen, etc. when I just wanted to be a pensioner. ######Just no one told me that I need first work for over 40 years!
ah a fellow guy dreaming about having to do nothing but realising that is after your life is half done
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Amazing how it turned from mature channel to a channel where childish players can freely flame. I was sure that you were speaking about creating a mature chat channel.
call it what you wan't we are all children deep inside anyways
: How about just not being toxic at all, and keeping negative thoughts to yourself? How would that be I wonder? Why are we looking at loopholes and rule breaks for our flaming "needs" huh? How bout you buy 10 keyboards a week, and just break them one by one, while frustrated. Or get a punching bag and hit it, instead of typing your frustration to random people on the internet. # "wow, my ADC gave first blood - better tell him to get aids IRL, that'll calm me down and strengthen my odds of winning by at least 150% - It's ok, I'm on the -I can tell randoms to kill themselves and not get in trouble channel anyway -" Yea buddy, great idea. 10/10 {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
oh it's the calm guy who has no expression and sits idly being happy at 0/30, well i don't think it's a problem to find loopholes. humans do express themself when angry just look around in the real world and you will find people screaming at eachother everywhere you go. if my adc gives first blood and i rage a bit we maybe lose, so what? im not an lcs player you know, i play this game on regular basis mostly aram and i do not give a damn about winning.
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Why not, but let's this be for people over 30 years old and you get access to it after providing your ID data. I have a good feeling that we would get the least toxic chat in the whole game.
i do not request that kind of channel, just a channel anyone could join at the terms of not being able to report people offending you, if you are 10 years old and join you will get offended and leave simple as that
RogueDek (EUW)
: If you wanna say it so much, say it. Your account would still be on the line since, calling someone, for example, a "nibber" on that chat could still result in a ban if they were offended by it. So, no point.
that's the point, if everyone on the channel agrees to being offended and being unable to being banned for writing stuff on that channel the issue would never appear, if you get offended you just turn that chat off and don't communicate on it
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