cruzadopt (EUW)
: fair games in ranked still
I get 3 AFK games a day when i play frequently. Once I saw 4 in a row. This is why I stopped playing -- because every player I've reported (even those where I have gotten the instant feedback report) were never banned. Checking their match history shows they are still playing ranked games. So I actually put in a request to delete my account. If they can't enforce their policies than I'm not supporting them. Its no longer a game of skill but luck.
Abdu Nabil (EUNE)
: Game crashed for both teams at min 2, BOTH teams lost -19 LP and game was remade.
I lost 5 games -- 3 due to the same problem you stated. As soon as there is a group fight with 3 or more champions the client crashes. The other 2 were due to AFKers and intentional feeding. I was demoted an entire tier because of this. Between the horrendous unfair matching system and their enablement of this kind of behaviour and their recent buggy client... they should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about a major set back in the time you invested in climbing up the ladder.
GrisEric (EUW)
: Ranked solo/duo
Yup LoL has a huge problem with their matching system. I created a similar thread that provides suggestions on how to fix it: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/xc2yUiAu-i-think-lol-should-improve-their-match-making-system-for-rank LoL isn't listening and they aren't doing anything about the inting and/or AFK players. They are enabling it by not punishing them. I myself climbed to the top and fell hard. Then haven't been able to climb back up. I experience intentional feeding and/or AFK players now like 40% of my games -- no joke. I guess the solution is to do the same. Then of course when you report them you get no feedback. And when you complain about that they say they can't share details -- in other words they do nothing.
Jímothy (EUW)
: Client still broken
My client lost all the sound and then froze during a ranked game. It crashed my computer. And then wouldn't let me back in stating I had no internet, but I did.
: That's my experience too. On average I'm probably getting the W/L I deserve, but the games streak like crazy. I'd say it's less than 1/3rd of games where the outcome ever really feels in doubt after the 10m mark.
> [{quoted}](name=Icedrake402,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=a3v93Uqs,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-06T00:30:36.355+0000) > > That's my experience too. On average I'm probably getting the W/L I deserve, but the games streak like crazy. I'd say it's less than 1/3rd of games where the outcome ever really feels in doubt after the 10m mark. I literally just played my first fair game in a very long time. It was tough but all were more or less the same. We were losing bad and I had to work extra hard in this game. Finally got to unstoppable by lvl 14/15 (a bit late in game) and was able to carry to a win with 2 triple kills. Would of had a penta, but 2 enemies basically stood in camp cause they gave up in the end. I got there by focusing on farming and playing safe with fighting only under turrets in the mid game as I died 3 times in early game. I got flammed so bad by the team for adjusting my strategy to a more safer play while they are all dying because their positioning was very poor. The enemy team was too fed at that point so not much I/we can do other than focus on stacking. Like supp died 15 times! In fairness, their ADC appeared to have better movements than me -- i may play back the game as I think I could learn something from them. Win or lose this game I would of been proud of it anyways, but we won :) Great comeback. I imagine I will now experience a streak of games now with unfair matching where I am either slaughtering enemy team or the other way around. They really need to change the way they match, 90% of the time they put irons on my team who feed so badly by lvl 8.
Roasti (EUNE)
: Ashe
Ashe needs a rework. Her basic attack is so weak compared to any other ADC. She is a late game champion. Playing Ashe is putting a lot of faith in your team's early game ability to hold their lanes. -- and if they can't it just makes you look really bad. It greatly affects your cs because fed players than camp the bot lane to take advantage of a weak early game Ashe. Then you are really behind in AS & AD especially if jng doesn't focus on objectives and target drake. Now don't get me wrong... if the team can hold their lanes until lvl 8, you've built up AS and gotten your AD from kills and drakes, then stand back and enjoy the show cause Ashe is unstoppable. This is also unfair to the enemy team. Point is... she is either a disaster or OP and slaughters everyone. I've gotten several penta kills with her in the last couple months. Oh yea, and people should be aware... the skins seem to affect her game plays. If I use a skin my cs is almost 50% less than if I use the default skin. For some reason skins seem to degrade your ability to last hit minions.
: MatchMaking
Match making is a huge problem in LoL. I'll go on a 10 game win streaks with stats like 19/0 or 12/2/21 where I carry well. I always look at the stats of the enemy team comp before we start the game and they seem to be more or less the same as my team when I win. Then all the sudden I get stuck in a vicious cycle of losses kicking me back further than where I started -- due to players in much lower rank feeding in excess making it impossible no matter how well you can carry to win the game. How am I getting matched with these players? The influx of rage quitters where remake isn't an option and being matched with 0 point players isn't helping at all. Its actually quite deflating to play ranked with their current match making system --- not fun at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a loss and thought... great enemy team that was a tough/good game. Nah, its always me thinking... that was not a fair match at all. Either the enemy all has mastery levels with 60k+ points and yours has only 1 Mastery with everyone less than 30k points, or someone went AFK, or supp is going full ap and stealing ADC's farm and kills, etc... Many times when I look at the stats while waiting in the lobby, I already know whether the game is going to be a win or a loss. I think I need to start queue dodging or going AFK before the game starts when I am being matched with these players. That could be a strategy. Honestly, the current match making system is broken. I recently made a post to suggest how they can change it to fix a lot of issues: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/xc2yUiAu-i-think-lol-should-improve-their-match-making-system-for-rank I'm over the whole vicious circle of extreme games - its never in between or a close match. Either I slaughter the enemy team or my team gets slaughtered and there isn't much I can do. 10 games win/losses seems to be the cycle. I'm going to likely cancel my account and move onto something else. Waste of time if you aren't being matched and awarded fairly. Like... why should I downgrade or promote at the same rate as the jungle who was inting the enemy team or going AFK?
: lets say the rest of your team has 4+kda. would you get penalized?
> [{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xc2yUiAu,comment-id=00130000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T18:47:42.682+0000) > > lets say the rest of your team has 4+kda. would you get penalized? No, in your example the rest of your team would need to average 5.25+ KDA in order for you to be an extreme outlier. That means that the other 4 team members would need to achieve average scores of 21 kill/assists with only 4 deaths. So you would still not get penalised in this example. The only way you would earn less LP than the others is if all 4 did achieve those stats and in that case you played so badly that you don't deserve to earn as much as them.
: 1- get dived top by 3 men 2-team get infernal+tower bot 3-game end in win your score is something like 1/4/6 after being camped the entire game 4-get less LP simply because the enemy jungler decided to sacrifice half the map+every drake good system, this is why riot shouldnt listen to the boards
> [{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xc2yUiAu,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T17:08:40.081+0000) > > 1- get dived top by 3 men > 2-team get infernal+tower bot > 3-game end in win your score is something like 1/4/6 after being camped the entire game > 4-get less LP simply because the enemy jungler decided to sacrifice half the map+every drake > good system, this is why riot shouldnt listen to the boards If ur final score was 1/4/6 then u wouldnt be an extreme outlier when compared to the rest of the team and you wouldnt get less LP. I don't think you fully appreciate what is being suggested in point #2.
: 1)normals are useless to test new champs especially if someone only play ranked because people don't tryhard and mmr discrepancy 2)how would you even code a system that is not abusable. and what about the top getting camped all game while his team win the 4v3? should he gets less LPs? what about the ori that fed in lane but landed a clutch 4 men ulti at the baron fight winning the game? should she get punished? 0/10 garbage ideas
> [{quoted}](name=A Chaotic Mind,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xc2yUiAu,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-03-01T12:52:37.229+0000) > > 1)normals are useless to test new champs especially if someone only play ranked because people don't tryhard and mmr discrepancy > 2)how would you even code a system that is not abusable. and what about the top getting camped all game while his team win the 4v3? should he gets less LPs? what about the ori that fed in lane but landed a clutch 4 men ulti at the baron fight winning the game? should she get punished? > > 0/10 garbage ideas Well firstly, if the enemy jng is camping top lane, the top champ should be asking for support from the jng which probably isn't happening. If you died 5 times in a row in the top lane what makes you think you will be successful fighting for a 6, 7th, 8th,... time? I mean get real. In this situation the top laner obviously has a very low vision score and isn't warding properly. Once they fix this issue, they can safely focus on clearing the lane and falling back to fighting under turret once they detect multiple enemies approaching. If they don't have wards ask other team members to help ward the areas. This strategy will increase their experience and gold which ultimately makes them stronger over time to engage at a later time and land kills. Additionally, top laner can roam to the mid lane on occasion so that the team wouldn't be camping there all the time. Lastly, yes they should get penalised if they died 10 times and everyone else died significantly less. Remember each death awards the enemy coins and in most cases perm AD or AS or life steal, etc... Each death just makes it harder for other team mates to fight your own champion.
: I think almost everyone can agree that a system that rewarded you for good play and punished you for bad play would be great. I also think almost everyone can agree that such a system is impossibly wishful thinking. There's no way to _**reliably**_ draw out the value a player had through pure stats. It's not possible. You can already see this from how many games people get an S (or, alternately, get MVP/ACE on the op.gg system) for when they barely contributed, or get a terrible rating when they contributed a lot. Happens almost every game. The other reason the win/loss only thing is good is because it _**correlates to the defining aspect of "skill"**_ - which is winning the game. Anything that helps you win is "good/skilful", anything that makes you lose is "bad/unskilled", by definition... and so you use winning and losing as _proxies_ for assessing skill over time. Nobody is claiming win = you are good, lose = you are bad, but that over time win and loss ratios reflect skill as winning and losing are what defines your skill.
> [{quoted}](name=Amis Thysia,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=xc2yUiAu,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-02-28T18:17:17.679+0000) > > I think almost everyone can agree that a system that rewarded you for good play and punished you for bad play would be great. > > I also think almost everyone can agree that such a system is impossibly wishful thinking. > > There's no way to _**reliably**_ draw out the value a player had through pure stats. It's not possible. You can already see this from how many games people get an S (or, alternately, get MVP/ACE on the op.gg system) for when they barely contributed, or get a terrible rating when they contributed a lot. Happens almost every game. > > The other reason the win/loss only thing is good is because it _**correlates to the defining aspect of "skill"**_ - which is winning the game. Anything that helps you win is "good/skilful", anything that makes you lose is "bad/unskilled", by definition... and so you use winning and losing as _proxies_ for assessing skill over time. > > Nobody is claiming win = you are good, lose = you are bad, but that over time win and loss ratios reflect skill as winning and losing are what defines your skill. Really liked your comment "I think almost everyone can agree that a system that rewarded you for good play and punished you for bad play would be great." That pretty much sums up exactly what I am aiming for. The other benefits to this approach as I mentioned before is it disincentives people to troll, throw games, and bad behaviour.
: No, it doesn't. The whole post comes from a missunderstanding on how the system works. Playing successfull strategies is already incentivised. But successfull doesn't mean what you think it means. The elo system rewards playstyles that maximize the probability to win. It doesn't maximize some arbitrary stat formula, all that matters is, if you win or not. Yes a strategy might not net you the win always, but it might do so very often. I already won with 1/13/1 toplaners or worse. Did it suck to have to stall the game against a fed enemy top? Yes. Did our top maybe still play it right, by splitpushing and taking objectives? Yes. Did he still tried to maximize the chance to win for our team after he fked up? Yes. I also sometimes have bad games, then try to stall, and still have impact later, you just cant put it down on some stats. Sometimes the right strategy after a fk up is to try to get the opponents attention and sometimes it very well be to completly diminish and try to afk farm up again. In one case you often get worse and worse stats and in the other you might very well do nothing dmg wise for a long time, to later pop off, hopefully. No, the solution is not to stat-maximize, the solution is to look at how consistently, you did work towards a win. And the best estimator for this is if you can win or not, seen over many games. Even with the RNG-elements, that you might win, just bcs your team was good, or might lose, just bcs your team was bad.
Explain how I just played a ranked game where there were 5 bronze players with 5 mastery levels. My team had 2 irons in it with only 3 mastery levels. How is this fair and how does the above apply?
: Logged in to upvote. both your points are so true. Your first point is something that really makes sense in every aspect. Your second one will definitely fix things gradually. I hope Riot will see this post and take it into serious consideration, before the community dies out and becomes too unstable to call this game an actual competitive moba.
Really appreciate your positive feedback. If this thread becomes popular, I think they will listen :) Its in their interest to make changes as your 100% right. It makes their loyal users feel deflated and eventually the community will die out as they look to alternative games to play.
: You talking about Twitch in the 44 min game? He finished 0/1/0 and had 4cs, looks like he got invaded at his 2nd buff and ragequit afterwards. Remake is not supposed to work in cases like that. Sucks, you lost to RNG. Happens, when you play a teamgame, especially when you queue up solo.
Yup exactly! happens a lot in ranked games - he rage quite. Remake should work in cases like that as its unfair when a player quits at such an early level. And the whole team got penalised losing LP.
: I completely agree with 1st timing champs in ranked, it shouldnt be allowed. However the second part would only increase the number of KDA players who would just afk farm and get a couple of kills just to be safe from the big lp loss. That mechanic would only encourage boring non engaging gameplay and the chances of turning games would be even lower since no one would take the risks.
Its great to see this has become such a popular topic. Delighted that most agree w/ my point #1. You mentioned that point #2 would result in safer plays and boring games. I don't see this at all. People who do take the risk and it pays off, will earn more points because their K/D ratio will be much higher. And those who take the risk but aren't successful will be encouraged to switch to a more safe play until they stack to keep their K/D at an acceptable level. Think of it this way... 4 members of the team have the following stats: 1/5, 2/4, 5/3, 10/8. The fifth member has 0/15. If you average the contributions made by the team, 0/15 is most certainly an extreme outlier. There is no excuse for it sorry. You can't die 15 times standing under a turret in that game. You would think that once they hit 0/5 they would drop their hero complex and focus on building and contributing in other ways -- like clearing lanes and increasing vision score and focusing on assists. I'm not saying that the whole point system has to be on a curve like mentioned above -- should be considered, but could require complex development. What wouldn't require complex development would be simply looking at the extreme outlier players only. In our example above, if the team won only the 0/15 player would get less points than the rest of the team. If they lost than the 4 players lose less points than the 0/15 player. Does this make more sense?
: I think LoL should improve their match making system for Rank
Just have another ranked game where a player just stood in camp AFK from the start. No option to remake -- dunno why. We all lost the same LP (such a fundamental problem). I experience this at least once a day. Team reported the player, no feedback. Lost my promotion.
Nolex (EUNE)
: matchmaking is designed to lose no matter what - when u hit cerrtan winrate. I played on euw smurf 10 games (b1) and i won few in a row then i went on a losing streak in bronze 1 and i was like wtf??How is this even possible then i notice that im not doing impact on a game individually, its impossible and i understand players out there that are frustrate its not your foult just system is designed on that way. If you want to climb play alot and you will cilmb, one day you will lose all gaes next day you may win all of them thats it. In the past seasons i was so dominant on smurfs i climbed in 20-30 games to pass my elo
I think this highlights the problem perfectly. If they implemented my 2 points, it would be a lot better.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Stat padding is not the main objective of ranked, it's all about how good you are at destroying enemy nexus. Also, your response is confusing, to clarify i was criticizing your 2nd point.
Your changing your terminology here. You switched from "stat hunting" to "stat padding" which are two completely different things. Correct, the purpose is to destroy enemy nexus. But in the same regard, you can't destroy the enemy nexus if you objective isn't to get decent stats. To be clear, the only stats really that should be considered is your kill to death ratio and how it stacked up to the rest of the team. If one person has 0/15 and the rest of the team 2/3 or 5/6. That's a huge variance regardless if you win or lose and should be accounted for.
Enjutsu (EUNE)
: Besides the fact that it's very hard to quantify how good someone did it also promotes stat hunting playstyle.
Isn't stats what ranked is all about -- the main objective? I am only talking for ranked games not other game modes. I couldn't tell you how many times someone plays first time player and/or stands in camp asking others to join them for a dance party in a ranked game because they are doing poorly so they throw it cause others don't want to surrender and try to carry. The current penalty system is broken.
: The problem with point 2 is that it's hard to calculate which player is trolling or which player is trying to win the game. i.e. tanks or engagers will die more often and will lose more points even when they are trying hard for the team. Also adc are main focused and if they have no peel against a engage team you see no light. Also split pushing would be hard to determine. There are too many strategic points where the calculation of LP won't work with pure numbers/stats.
I don't agree with your response to point #2. The purpose isn't to calculate which player is trolling. Its to distribute points based on how well you played. Likewise, deduct points based on how well you didn't play. Your points around tanks/engagers dying more often is not true. And for those who find their opponent too OP, you are not going to die 15 times + by engaging under a turret. Use the opportunity to change your play style to a more safe play. Focus on clearing lanes and a high vision score to benefit the entire team.
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