Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Masterwork chest
Better than mine, which was a shard of constable Trundle = 150 orange essence because f that...
Haze97 (EUW)
: Valid points. Tell me more about the new cominc though. Who is it going to be based on and do you know when it comes out?
Riot confirmed that the next comic they release is going to be one centered around Lux, where Garen was mentioned to have a fairly prominent role as well. On top of that Riot wants to start releasing Novels about Runeterra and Demacia happens to provide the setting for the first one, set to be released sometime this year. I'm afraid there is no specific info on when the comic will start releasing, but my guess is that the comic will air once the Ashe comic is done (Warmother is currently at 3/6 issues), so in approx 3 or 4 months time seems plausible.
Haze97 (EUW)
: His story is shallow, and not nearly as emotional as that of Darius. Darius's backstory had depth, dispense, loss, and a sense of hopelessness whereas Garen's story felt unoriginal and very straightforward which isn't necessarily a bad thing but makes the entire writing seem predictable. Garen to add to that seemed to have more plot power than actual strategy. The writing doesn't intrigue me.
I often feel like a story about grief and hopelessness is a bit of a cop out, since it's so overused. A tragic background is not a deep background. But to each their own I guess. My take away from Garen's story is completely different from yours. The important part is not whether or not he succeeds, it's how and why he does it. It allows us to see him as a character who clearly knows about his sister being a mage, yet is in denial. He is torn between his duty and his love for her to the point where even when all the memories of her are taken from him, he knows that something is off. Basically, he is constantly balancing on the line between being a traitor and a paragon in the eyes of those around him. At the end of the day, I judge the story on what I learned about the characters. Darius' story shows that despite everything, he is still human and must deal with the consequences of his choices. Garen's story shows that he is more than just a righteous paragon who will be forced to make hard choices in the near future. I'm assuming the comic and/or the novel coming out this year will address this in some way. It's funny, when I write them up next to each other like this, the characters really do seem like two sides of the same coin. In any case, your original post was about who would win in a fight and whether Garen's lore is interesting or not, I'd still say he would win based on all I've read about the two so far.
Haze97 (EUW)
: Garen vs Darius. Who is stronger according to lore?
Depends really, they hold a similar position in their respective nations, but all lore considered, I'd have to say Garen. Let's break it down into bits here, so I can explain why. Garen first: According to the lore, Demacia has the most elite and best equipped army in Runeterra. Garen is the Captain of the Dauntless Vanguard, which is Demacia's most elite unit, made up of people who in their own right are all legends. He is also the firstborn Crownguard, meaning he is the foremost protector of J4 and has been trained from childhood for that very purpose. Lux describes him as both subtle, cunning and a smart strategist, despire what others may think. In J4's bio it says that Jarvan admires him for his sheer fortitude and tenacity, something that is mentioned in other instances as well. The Hag from his own story praises him for outwitting her and comments that he is much faster than she had expected. On top of that he wears Demacian steel, which in the actual Universe pages on Demacian military is described as the strongest and lightest metal in Runeterra with magic nullifying properties to boot. Now Darius: Darius has survived as an orphan in Noxus through sheer grit and climbed all the way to the top in a society that only promotes the strong. He is experienced both as a commander and as a warrior, his gear is made from the best iron in the Noxian empire (at least according to Darius himself). He does not rely on magic, so Garen would not have an advantage in that regard at least. Basically, as far as I'm concerned it boils down to this: Garen is younger, better trained and better equipped. Darius is more experienced and while no pushover that is pretty much all he has going for him in this specific matchup. On a final note, I'm a bit curious as to why you would describe Garen's story as 'braindead'. Specifically because his story is about him outsmarting an opponent, who holds all the cards and cheats as well, so to speak, without breaking the rules set for the game himself.
: When the crit is back, they can buff him back. That's the idea of a balance team that buffs and nerfs champions so they remain in healthy state. Garen 53.5% win rate compared to champs in his class (Daruis, Nasus,...) around 49% doesn't seem too balanced for me. U just don't let him so OP that even masters abuse him. Noone even knows if the crit meta will ever be back.
The crit is back from this patch and on, there are huge changes incoming to the cost of most adc items to allow adc's back into the early game. It is happening THIS tuesday dude. Also, Darius has seen the competitive seen for seasons and is one of the most frequently played toplaners, he has been strong for ages and he is still a very relevant counter to Garen, so having 49% winrate for a patch or two is hardly the end of all things for him. They let Garen sit around 46% winrate for the entirety of season 6 and 7, him having a bolstered winrate for two patches is pretty minor compared to outliers like Rakan, Talon, Quinn etc. It'll fix itself by tuesday.
: I don't bother reading a comment starts with flaming. I'm so glad I can start and pull out of a conversation without flaming the other side. I mean, I could easily call u a noob who is afraid to demote to plastic v if garen gets nerfed,..., etc. I respect anyone's desire to play any champ and I respect players as humans before anything. But if u will flame, there is a mute button or just don't read this useless comment button. Have a nice day.
So saying that your post comes across as whiny, because you clearly won't acknowledge current circumstance is flaming? Calling you out for not bothering to read my reply, yet commenting anyhow is flaming? You keep saying I play a 'brainless shit' champ, but that is completely ok? How exactly do you have the moral high ground here? Far as I'm concerned you have completely disregarded everything I have said and written me off for enjoying to play a simple champion, just because you happen to consider him shit. And yet you claim you respect anyone's choice of champion... Take a look at what you actually wrote bro and ask yourself, if you convey that 'respect' you claim to have for those who enjoy to play this 'brainless shit' champion.
: And numbers are so biased, too.
No, but they need to be seen in context, that you refuse to acknowledge that is what makes you biased.
: I read the 1st 3 lines and didn't bother to continue. So, masters and diamonds who lose to him have no willing to learn the matchup and cry. Enjoy ur noob braindead champ, but don't get so butthurt when someone states facts.
So you don't even bother ro read replies, you're one of those who only want to complain and can't engage in a debate then. I shouldn't be surprised given everything you have said so far. Garen is strong right now yes, I never disputed that, maybe you would have noticed, if you actually bothered to read, but you don't. The fact of the matter is, if they nerf him now, they'll have to buff him back up, as soon as the meta changes again. That is all I'm saying. That you cannot understand that, is no fault of mine. Thank you, I will enjoy my champ, as I always have no matter how shitty his winrate was and no matter how many times others call him shit and braindead. At least I'm not as simple and narrow minded as you.
Zanador (EUNE)
: I think you misinterpreted some of the reasons behind his performance in recent patches. The list you brought up about his strengths is correct, but he had all those for years and he has fluctuating wildly during that time. **My interpretation: Garen is just simply very strong in this current burst oriented meta.** Think about it: His W gives him massive damage reduction for 2-6 seconds, perfect against burst champions. His Q's silence messes up skill based burst champions. He is durable enough to face-tank most bursts of damage and he can effectively protect squishy allies by silencing any enemy who gets close to the back line. Look at the top 20 champions by win rate. They are all either burst oriented like Quinn, Wukong, Ahri, Brand, Draven or they counter burst, like Garen, Taric, Zilean. Garen can be handled by stable dps that can continue past his 6 seconds of W, namely ADCs and aoe slows which he can't get rid of with Q, but those are not meta at the moment because in general they don't provide as much burst as the alternative and they are not too strong against burst either. You don't want to bring too many slowing skills into a meta where Ahri, Quinn and Wukong can kill you in a second, but you absolutely would need it against a Garen. ------------------------------------ My point of view: Garen is not too strong, but in general, picking his counters and building the right items against him is just not a good strategy currently. If he gets nerfed now, he will need a massive buff later on if the meta shifts again. And while that is an option, it would remove one of the most intuitive counters people can pick against the current meta and since Garen was indeed designed with lower elo people in mind, they would lose the most.
This is exactly what I told him, but he is so biased he doesn't even acknowledge the circumstance under which Garen performs better.
: I'm sorry but most of what u said applies to any fighter. When ADC was so strong u could be 12/2 on Daruis and get 3 shot in a team fight by a 3/5 ADC who got core crit items, so this part of the discussion is pretty much invalid. I will not have flash every 8 seconds(not counting CDR) to flas his Q. So, this is broken and unacceptable. Talking about passive, u can poke him every 8 seconds only on ranged champs, unless u want to take a huge menion aggro if u walk to him to hit in his wave. Most of what u say like build life steal, get maw (which only works if u r not the villian) is not counter to him because not all champs build life steal or AD. U r just saying "Play fiora with ravenous, Maw and a Blood Thirster and u will be fine". Don't tell me about his weaknesses. They r laughable, bro. All champs in the game have weaknesses and u pretty much die when u misplay unless u r a tank. If garen is a tank why he gets access to all that damage and even slow emmunity and MS? He had that 47% win rate when all fighters class were screwed by tanks like malphite/maokai who can peel for the ADC for years and that ADC destroys u in seconds. Now that's no more a thing, tune this champ down. Linear champions should be beaten by any champ when played correctly. This is the easiest champ to play and he shits on diamond/masters and I'm not kidding about the main Fiora part, if it's the only solution to destroy this shit champ.
Well all this reply tells me is that you clearly do not care to even learn how to play a matchup correctly, in which case your entire post comes across as little more than whiny %%%%%ing. All matchups have counter play and counter picks, Garen included, you are clearly just unwilling to adabt and instead of improving you cry for nerfs on a champion who has been entirely irrelevant since season 1. You keep saying that maining Fiora is the only way to destroy this 'shit' champion, while completely disregarding everything I have told you. I find it very hard to take any qualms you have seriously considering you have this state of mind. You clearly post to complain, not have a discussion or to educate yourself. It has never been the rule that a mechanical champ should automatically win against a simple one. The trade off is high risk, high reward. Garen's tradeoff is safe, but predictable. Garen will punish you for making a misplay, but if you don't, you can punish garen, because you as a mechanically complex champion have the possibility to outplay, where he does not. If you cannot do that, why do you play mechanically advanced champions? If you lack the mechanical skill to get yourself the edge you need to outplay a Garen, then the fault is on you, not Garen. Also if you cannot go in for a trade without dying to minion aggro, it means that you don't know how to manage your minions, or how and when to trade for that matter. Maybe you should play some simple champions, so you can learn basic lane control, before you make whiny posts like this? Also, you would disregard counterbuilding? Well no wonder you lose then... Do you think a decent Garen would be dumb enough to take Mercs into Fiora for example? You are setting yourself up to fail, if you completely disregard all other aspects of the game than a stat check. From this it is clear to me that you are just complaining about a match up you find hard, simply because you refuse to adapt your playstyle to deal with it. Regarding the 'all fighters got destroyed by adc's.' No, Fiora, Irelia and Jax all have better tools than Garen to take on an Adc and Darius and Illaoi both have a lot more teamfighting value. Jax, Fiora and Irelia can win that 1v1, Garen cannot, he lacks the ability to close the distance before he is shredded, unlike the others who have extremely good chase potential, but are more squishy, so don't give me that bs. Also, far as I can count I mentioned 10 different champions you can counter Garen with, but you seem very determined to only acknowledge Fiora. Honestly, there is no point in discussing any of this with you, because you have clearly shown that you lack understanding of the matchup and are so biased that you would rather complain about something that will go into its own soon enough, rather than improve and adapt your own gameplay.
: The Most Noob Champ Has 54% Win Rate In Diamond
Hey, Garen main here. To understand why Garen all of a sudden has a higher both pick and winrate you need to see some things in context. Garen has ALWAYS been decent at shutting down any toplaner who makes a mistake. On high mechanical skill champions like Riven or Yasuo, it's easy to make those, even in Diamond, but that's not actually why he is so strong atm. The real reason Garen is better now, is because he is an early-midgame champ who is hardcountered by high sustained dmg, say from a crit/attack speed based ad carry. Something that has been missing for the few patches he has been strong. The statistics you are seeing in other words are very much a result of Garen's two greatest flaws having minimal presence. The games are faster, which means Garen does not reach the stage where he becomes useless. On top of that the botlane now picks burstmages or other bruisers. Garen can, if played right shit on a burst mage because of w and then proceed to stomp them while they wait for their cd's to come back. Once adc's start returning properly to the game, you will see these bloated winrates drop, because when Ardent censor and adc's were the shit, he was sitting at about 44 - 47% winrate, even in the elo's where he should be thriving. Since adc's are the most vocal part of the playerbase, when it comes to whining, these things are already getting fixed, so you won't have to endure for long. So pick Fiora, Tryndamere, Darius, Jayce, Kayle, Quinn, Olaf, Kled, Renekton or Pantheon. Any one of these played correctly can shut him down early and deny him that win. Problem is people will rather play Riven and Yasuo and they have their losses to show for it. Now onto the kit: The passive is not that great pre 11, provided that your laner knows to tag you at least once every 8 seconds, something which is quite possible to accomplish. He can get 40 armor and mr yes, you neglect to mention that he gets it as a stacking effect from his cs. He needs 150 cs to complete it. You also neglect to mention that he has lower base mr and armor than most other bruisers to begin with due to this. Deny him farm and he can't stack it, simple. The dmg reduction and tenacity is on for a 0.75 seconds window and the reduced effect lasts only 2 at rank 1, which is the one that will be relevant in lane. Bait it out and you win the trade. You also neglect to mention that his w at rank 1 has a whopping 20 seconds cd, which gives you plenty of time to go in for trades while it is down. His E does do a lot of dmg, but you once again neglect to metion that the dmg it does is 33% reduced if it hits more than one target. This includes minions. Fight him in a minion wave and you can remove a third of his dmg output just like that. The Q silence might be obnoxious to deal with, but you neglect to mention that the animation is so slow, you can actually flash or dash away during the windup, making the silence apply after you have created distance between you. Meaning you can force him to trade flashes with you despite him having landed the ability. The slow cleanse is only applied upon activation, in other words, you can instantly slow him again, or you can slow him once you see him charge, leaves him nothing to do but give up the chase or burn flash to get you. The ult is a high dmg execute yes, but all you have to do is avoid him at low hp. Build lifesteal, build a maw, unless you are the villain the ult does magic dmg like you said, and maw negates it unless he is wayyyyy ahead on the lvl's. Build Sterak's, use shield or heal abilities and you can throw his ult dmg off to the point where its dmg is neglectable. I can understand that a lot of people find Garen frustrating to play against, but most of the time I see people listing his kit, like you did, and they somehow always forget to mention the drawbacks. Almost as if they don't actually know how to play around Garen's weaknesses, go figure... At any rate, I hope you are better suited for dealing with Garen in future matches for having read this, again it won't last too long, because as soon as adc's are back in the meta, Garen will return to being a niche pick champion, played mostly by people who enjoy him like myself. And we are few, we know.
: Champions u need to look out for next patch
Here's the thing though, {{champion:86}} is gonna fall straight back to around 50% the second adc's become playable again. Them missing is what's made him viable for the first time... well in many many seasons basically. With no high output sustained dmg dealers, Garen can just shrug off burst dmg with his W and proceed to decimate a team. Don't worry, he'll be back in line, soon as adc's are viable again. {{champion:157}} is hardly better off with the crit changes, he's going to get his items faster now, but it is not hard to shut him down, never has been. {{champion:91}} is very strong atm, but {{champion:238}} ? Zed is hardly relevant compared to other assassin midlaners and laning against him as long as you keep minions between you is not really a problem. His winrate shows this too, so I don't know why you would think he's OP. {{champion:35}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:77}} are all pretty balanced if you ask me. They are annoying to deal with sure, but you can play around them, they certainly don't warrant nerfs. {{champion:555}} and {{champion:267}} are annoying to deal with yes, Nami especially. Still they are to me less obnoxious than a really good {{champion:497}} or {{champion:63}} Why would you want buffs on {{champion:55}} and {{champion:4}}? Both are quite strong, TF in particular and have been solid pics for a long time. {{champion:154}} and {{champion:113}} seem pretty balanced to me, I agree that {{champion:427}} could use some love though.
: I like Garen, what other champ would you recommend me?
I was in the same spot as you when I began playing. My go to champions when Garen is banned would be {{champion:59}} and {{champion:80}}. J4 is not as simple, but still very easy to wrap your head around. Patheon is mechanically even easier, but does require some map awareness to utilize ult properly. Both are pretty satisfying to play in their own right. J4 is a diver and playmaker and can be played both as a tank or an assassin depending on your build and runes. Pantheon snowballs the game and ganks like a second jgl after lvl 6 to get every lane ahead.
Porohub (EUNE)
: Dude I have a lot of games on garen, Mastery 7 here. Trust me his dmg on URF has nothing to do with his dmg on the normal mode.
I'm mastery 7 too, more than half a million points. It is not a bug. If you disregard the replies you get, despite not being able to find any information that supports your claim, why bother asking at all? If that is the case, this post is pointless, as you will only value a response that supports your statement however false it may be. The fact that you downvote every post that happens to disagree with you makes that pretty obvious.
Porohub (EUNE)
: Garen E bug
They leave it because it does not stack. Garen's spin has one of the highest scalings in the game, on top of that it can crit. The ability dmg does not change in URF, peoples' builds do however. In URF, most of the time people think %%%% resistances and HP, and go full dmg that means they get shredded and if Garen goes full ad/crit they get shredded even faster it's quite simple really. Even outside of URF a crit/AD Garen can 100 to 0 most non-tanks, so I think you are overreacting a bit.
: VS Event - Who is winning?
The event was always genuine, but it has favored Darius from the start. Like you said, people tend to prefer Chaos over order, like last year, there is just something more appealing about the badboy rebel compared to the lawful paragon for many people. To top that off, Darius has been relevant in the meta basically since his rework a couple of years ago, which means he has had a lot more exposure in world's and the like. Since Darius is actually a viable pick he also has a much much larger playrate, and by proxy a larger fanbase, being one of the most popular toplaners across all divisions. Meanwhile Garen is an outdated champion who struggles above gold, sees no pro play and has very low playrate overall. He has a few dedicated mains, myself included, and used to be a tutorial champ, which means he was a lot of people's first one. Other than that, he is pretty much just known for the memes and the fact that his kit is simple enough to be played effectively by a braindead hamster. In short this event was pretty much decided from the get go. Even if people did not have a tendency to choose chaos over order, for whatever reason, Garen is still a lot less celebrated than Darius. The Dunkmaster vs. Shroedinger's Beyblade... To be honest, as a Garen main I find the whole thing a bit depressing, it was never a contest. With that said, the new skin is awesome, I will take what I can get and play my awesome noob champ proudly as always.
: I don't have anything from the Wiki, the lines I have quoted are the ones you find in the game, unlike the quotes you mention, which you still have not shared with us. Probably because they do not exist. Maybe you should watch the God King Garen special interactions video by Skinspotlights. The channel is supported by Riot as an official media used to release information about new skins, champions, reworks and special interactions. In that video you can see every interaction Garen has and lo and behold there is nothing in there suggesting that he is in any way romantically involved with Fiora or his sister. In other words you buddy are full of shit and just can't handle being proven wrong. Continuously claiming that all your info comes from the game itself without providing any kind of substance to your claims is dumb at best and naive if you think anyone is just going to take your word for it, when all actual evidence proves you wrong. You are not convincing anyone, so go spread your head-cannon in fanfiction if that is what you like, it does not reflect the actual lore. If you can't accept that, not my problem, keep crying about Garen and Katarina being a thing.
You mean like how you are enforcing all of your opinions on her without any kind of basis? Got it. I play Kat too and there is nothing in her voicelines that speaks against or contradicts what the other champios are saying. Guess we'll just have to wait for her to get some voice lines about it herself. Until then I'll go with what can at least be docimented by the interactions of various other champions, meanwhile you can keep denying all you like with no substance for doing it whatsoever.
: If you spent 5 years on the same account and gets banned for being agressive in chat is weird, I know you get chat resrictions in the beginning I got that once but you don't even get a warning that you are close to being permanent banned when you maybe are a bit to toxic in chat you just log out then logging back in and you are permanent banned and you can nothing do about it, there is more that gets banned for being toxic then actually breaking the game for example, inting or goes afk.
The mute is the warning that you are close to a perma ban.
: I don't have anything from the Wiki, the lines I have quoted are the ones you find in the game, unlike the quotes you mention, which you still have not shared with us. Probably because they do not exist. Maybe you should watch the God King Garen special interactions video by Skinspotlights. The channel is supported by Riot as an official media used to release information about new skins, champions, reworks and special interactions. In that video you can see every interaction Garen has and lo and behold there is nothing in there suggesting that he is in any way romantically involved with Fiora or his sister. In other words you buddy are full of shit and just can't handle being proven wrong. Continuously claiming that all your info comes from the game itself without providing any kind of substance to your claims is dumb at best and naive if you think anyone is just going to take your word for it, when all actual evidence proves you wrong. You are not convincing anyone, so go spread your head-cannon in fanfiction if that is what you like, it does not reflect the actual lore. If you can't accept that, not my problem, keep crying about Garen and Katarina being a thing.
Jhin to Garen: The ever enchanting tale of starcrossed lovers. Jhin to Kat: Your finalé will be a duet. Illaoi to Garen: Honor duty? What your heart demands is all that matters. Illaoi to Kat: No love is impossible, my God demands you follow your desires. Tahm to Garen: You live by a code that will never let you get what you want, let me take you to her. Tahm to Kat: Don't starve your heart child, let me deliver you to him. Lux to Kat: Kat and Garen sitting in a tree and you better just be holding hands, or I'm gonna tell. Yeah... Onesided... Totally... Keep deluding yourself.
: I dont give evidence cause its basic stuff you should know from just being alive. I dont accept your so called facts as wiki is written by fans and proven wrong over and over again.
I don't have anything from the Wiki, the lines I have quoted are the ones you find in the game, unlike the quotes you mention, which you still have not shared with us. Probably because they do not exist. Maybe you should watch the God King Garen special interactions video by Skinspotlights. The channel is supported by Riot as an official media used to release information about new skins, champions, reworks and special interactions. In that video you can see every interaction Garen has and lo and behold there is nothing in there suggesting that he is in any way romantically involved with Fiora or his sister. In other words you buddy are full of shit and just can't handle being proven wrong. Continuously claiming that all your info comes from the game itself without providing any kind of substance to your claims is dumb at best and naive if you think anyone is just going to take your word for it, when all actual evidence proves you wrong. You are not convincing anyone, so go spread your head-cannon in fanfiction if that is what you like, it does not reflect the actual lore. If you can't accept that, not my problem, keep crying about Garen and Katarina being a thing.
: Cant help you if you dont see the hidden messages.
And you can't be helped since you refuse to accept basic factual evidence. You seem like the kind of person who is all to ready to throw random claims out, yet when people prove you wrong deny all evidence you are presented with, without providing any yourself. This is a waste of my time, you can beleive what you want, that does not make you right.
: Wiki makes you dumb. How about you play the game itself for yourself. He actually does say what I claim.
I do play the game, and I know what he says, you are straight up wrong. The only interaction Garen has with Fiora is in the God King skin: "The question is, are you worthy of me?" That is the same condescending drivel he spouts to pretty much everyone else, certainly not romantic. As for Lux the only interaction he has with her, once again is from the God King skin, and it goes: "For serving the cause of good, I will refrain from smiting you into dust, you are welcome for this honor... sister." He is basically saying because you have done good I will not kill you for being a mage, once again, nothing romantic there. So how about you stop being dumb period, and check the facts instead of trying to double down on your own delussional head canon? Maybe you should play the game some more, since you clearly do not know Garen's interactions.
: ***
Chill? You are the one making a tasteless 'joke' about a dictator just because I point out the fallacy in your response, think you are the one who needs to chill buddy.
: Nope. You Garen fans just wanna make Garen look good no matter what. I dont even like Darius lmao.
Where exactly did I make Garen 'look good' as you call it? The part where I said they are BOTH tyrants in the God King universe? Nah, you are clearly just biased because you dislike Garen. You refuse to see Darius for what he is, a warmongering tyrant, while calling Garen out for being one, that's hypocritical no matter how much you would like to deny it.
: He has one for Fio and one for Lux. Currently ingame. So k mr bad fiction sir.
No he does not. Get your facts straigth instead of spouting lies, it makes you look dumb.
: Everyone prefers Don over 99% of the leaders of the world. Never said Darius is better, but his kingdom takes under their rule other countries who just have to provide food and stuff while getting protection by the noxian empire. And the people who follow darius to war do it because they want to, same as the vikings. The people who fight for Garen do it, cause they got no choice. Plus Garen is hitting on 3 different girls the same time, with one of them being his own sister...
Garen has romantic quotes regarding Katarina and ONLY Katarina, so wherever you got that other idea from is probably just bad fanfiction.
: Garen is a tyrant... Darius wants power for his people... Read the tips ingame. Garen sill slay any who dont obey him, while Darius will lead you to personal power. I pref to fight for freedom than to be a slave to a tyrant ideology
Darius does not want power for his people. He advocates anarchy where the only rule is might makes right. They are both tyrants in the God King universe, if you can't acknowledge that, then you are so biased you choose to see only half the picture.
bioCorn (EUW)
: That's really cliché. Besides, Darius' color scheme is much more interesting since unlike Garen it's not ripped off from the previous VS event
You're not really making a good case for yourself, when you dismiss and berate everyone else's opinions just because they happen to differ from yours. I for example find Darius' entire concept cliché. He is pretty much Garen 2.0 the Noxian edition. That the color scheme for his skin is more interesting, IS YOUR OPINION, it is not factual, so don't write it like it is. Personally I find that the borderline pinkish red and the white hair makes him look like a fat drag queen. But that is just my opinion. If Garen wins this, I'll be happy. If Darius wins, too bad I guess.
: I just like it cause woofers. Y so srs. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Because a lot of people are making their decision based on Garen's lines making him sound like an arrogant ass, yet they readily excuse Darius who sounds like a homocidal maniac with no regard for others ;) I just want people to be able to make a fair decision. Also Garen is my main, I want him to win. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Leyruh (EUW)
: I'm siding with Darius. Both skins look amazing, but Darius' looks stunning. He also has Wolves at his sides, and wolves are way cooler than Lions. Also, it seems like skin themes hold stories. God Kind Darius isn't the Darius we know. The same can be said for Garen. In this God-like universe, Dawnbringer Riven is the ancestor of Garen's legacy. Nightbringer Yasuo is a part of Darius'. ( {{champion:122}} _ "I challenge you, ancestor!"_ ) In this universe, God-King Garen protects his people in exchange of their **will**. God-King Darius fights for freedom, since he doesn't "enslave" his people the way God-King Garen does. God-King Garen might appear like the manifestation of Justice and rightouness, but if we think about it, isn't he someone who traps people into servitude in exchange of his protection? Shouldn't a God-King with pure intentions protect his people, even if they would stab them in the back? A good God-King doesn't need servitude. He has to earn people's faith. God-King Darius fights for his nemesis' people's freedom. Isn't he the one who is right?
Except what Darius figths for is endless war and anarchy. What he preaches is: Might makes right, which is not a good thing. So yeah, Garen is definitely not a good guy in this, but saying Darius is just fighting for the freedom of an oppressed people is straight up wrong. Darius figths because he can and if you are not strong enough to survive in a cruel world like the one he heralds, sad to be you.
: My problem with escaping bronze (trying to find solutions)-Goal is Silver 5
Garen can carry you to gold if you are consistant, even further if you are great at the macro game. You do not want to take something you are not great at just because someone else is not comfortable/happy with your pick. They don't know you or your limits/strengths better than you do. Just the other day I had a guy who was auto filled support and he asked if he could have my top, since he doesn't support. Top is my main lane, but I can play support well enough for my ELO, ten minutes later, the guy I had given my lane had given away 5 kills by repeating the same mistake over and over. I could have played that lane better and should have stuck with what I'm good at, so I know where you are coming from. If you want to play Garen, play Garen. If you feel secure with Garen, play Garen. He can carry just fine. Especially now that there are few Adc's around and games end early, he is in a better spot atm than he has been for years. For Bronze 5, just being able to properly splitpush, should be enough to win you the game. Just build accordingly and adapt to each game, you will see yourself winning more often.
: Searching for a new main
I main {{champion:86}}, but I forgive you for your misinformed opinion :P... Many people do not appreciate the glory of Justice and death by flashy screen. I can flash Q, flash E, flash R, sometimes you wouldn't believe the combos I can make. Q-E-R, rest in pieces! And the bushes! We must not forget the bush plays :3 Jokes aside, toplane is probably the worst lane to start laning atm. There are some new bruiser items incoming and it's bound to have some effect, also the more effective picks are weird shit like Singed and Mundo for something tanky and Irelia or Camille with conqueror for literally everything else. So I'll go ahead and suggest my secondary choice instead. Jungle and{{champion:59}}, who has been a pretty consistent jungler for at least 3 years. He's easy to learn, but there is a mastery curve.
NoobStory (EUW)
: First of all, I'd like to make something very clear: I do absolutely not believe that tanks are op right now and should be nerfed. This is not what I'm saying. It is true that I play mostly botlane, but not as an adc, so it's not that I wish my favourite role were buffed. If you've read all I wrote, and I'm sure you did, you might have noticed that I conceded these changes I'd like were implemented could "make the tank class a bit redundant with most of them having the same unoriginal spells". I also agree that we tend to mix all tanks with juggernauts and others, so I'll try to be a bit more specific: it bothers me that lots of adcs will get trashed by champions with large amounts of health and resists, such as Garen, but I'm thinking more of Ornn, Sion, Chogath (I won't talk about Mundo but you can see where he's standing now). It is not a problem specific to the tank class, as I thought exactly the same when ad tank Fizz and Akali rose to the top. I believe building resistance and/or hp should deprive champions from getting more damages. As for Singed, he's a much too specific champion to fall in this category. What I mean when I say that we should get rid of targeted spells is that this game needs some tricks, more outplay potential, more high risk high reward content (the old Nidalee's spear being the best example). For example, Riven, though her spells are very basic, is incredibly hard to master, the same for Yasuo, and this is what I wish for: difficult yet rewarding champions that let you feel your progress. If you can barely see any difference between a gold maokai and a diamond maokai, it shows the champion is lacking depth (perhaps I'm a bit exaggerating, but you get the idea). Once again, I understand that the tanks I speak of may not attract most people, but this is imo what tanks really are. Heavy cc, feels like a mountain in front of you and hard to bypass. It's not an easy ideal to fulfill, of that I'm deeply conscious and always have been. As you said, tanks could become unreliable and unengaging, but I trust designers could come up with some nice ideas. If tanks get abilities able to completely cc the enemy team for 3 seconds and by just coming from the side ensure your wiping the enemy team, it might make for some interesting content. Obviously it's huge change I'm thinking of, and I don't think it will ever be implemented, but it could be a nice idea to keep in mind. ^^ (PS: again, I don't think tanks are OP, when I'm autofilled, I go tank and often get dumpstered, but right now, adcs too are getting dumpstered, so much so that they don't even appear in higher elos :p )
If it's because you are arguing for a higher skill ceiling on some of the simple tanks, then I'm all for it. (Maybe people would stop insulting my intelligence whenever I play Garen if he were harder to play :P) However, just hitting some random cc and standing there doing nothing for literally everything else won't be any fun, no one will go for it. There is a reason Supports are both the unsung heroes and at the same time the least preferred role in lower ELO, because who likes to play second violin? Where is the fun in letting someone else hog all the glory? A lot of supports and tanks go underappreciated and if you put them in a state similar to what you suggest, they would be completely reliant on their team to carry them, because with no dmg they can accomplish nothing on their own. Even more so, than they are now. No Splitpushing, no smart target calling, no capitalization on catching someone who's overextended or badly positioned, no smart tp plays, no other function than being a wall that can be ignored in a teamfight. As a top main and a jgl second I can tell you that there is nothing more frustrating than feeling you don't have an impact. It's the very reason Riot buffed supports to the moon and now have to tone them down with all the shield duration changes. I'm not saying no one likes to be a supportive, team oriented player, I'd play support over mid or adc anyday, but having all of your impact decided solely on cc skillshots in teamfights, would make every single tank champion feel like playing an iteration of Malphite and that would not be fun. With that out of the way I am glad that you do not warrant for nerfs on tanks that in the game's current state would be unneccessary. On the specific instance of Garen and similar tanky bruisers trashing ADC's I'll say that it is very circumstantial. When I manage to trash carries with that champion it is because the carry is alone, kites poorly, has not built properly to deal with me or is behind on items and levels. It could be all or any one of those reasons that decide the outcome. In general however, the tendecy is that a full build adc will win in a 1v1. Put a good support into this equation and it's not even a contest anymore. Garen, Illaoi, Darius and all those high dmg, pretty tanky fighters are notoriously easy to avoid provided you know how to kite and if you removed their tankyness, you'd have to make up for it some other way. For example in sustained dmg, mobility or cc which would make them similar to champions like Irelia, Fiora and Jax. If you didn't compensate for their lack of those things, they would melt before even making it to the fight. Regardless of whether we agree on what should be done or not, I still think it's an interesting discussion and I suppose in the end it'll be up to Riot, whether they see a problem or not. The upcoming bruiser items for example are going to be very interesting to play around and if those don't get top back in the game, then they might very well consider a different approach, possibly along the lines of what you suggested, though to a smaller extent. We'll see I guess :)
Semirk0 (EUW)
: unfair chat restriction
Your attitude is a reportable offense as it falls under the negative attitude category, debatably Abusive chat as well. You give up, you grief by refusing to teamwork and you put your entire team on tilt with your entitled and selfish attitude. You also try to dictate to others what they should and should not play. Nidalee is a high skill, but viable jungler well up to high Diamond, something you can never reach with your attitude. In other words, you have no bussiness saying what others can and cannot play, if that Nidalee didn't have you, an actual troll, on the team, who knows he might have carried, but YOU didn't even give him a chance, not even the benefit of the doubt. You are the sole wrongdoer here and this ban was very much deserved.
NoobStory (EUW)
: I completely agree with you and I think that's why tanks should get a new model in LoL: I believe they should get huge untargeted cc and deal basically no damage except to minions (can't stop them from farming, can we?). Just in general, get rid of targeted spells, go full skillshots and make it that tanks are a wall, taking everything for their allies, while not being able to solo down carries. It would obviously mean that if you get cc'd once, you have high odds of dying, except if you're yourself a tank. But in the end, though it's what I would prefer, it could indeed make the tank class a bit redundant with most of them having the same unoriginal spells.
A change like that would be disastrous. Tanking would become utterly boring and unengaging. No one would want to play it, because it would be unrealiable as hell and all the tanks would feel the same. Moreover, if everything was converted to skillshots, then the ONLY source of completely reliable dmg left in the game would come from auto attacks. Marksmen would benefit more from this than any other class in the game. I'm sure it would be an ADC's wet dream, but the whole game does not need to cater to one class. The ADC changes were made because ADC's had too much of an impact too early. We had the Ardent censor meta forever and botlane has been dictating games for months now. Tanks are not even a thing atm. The only tanks with a decent winrate top are Mundo, Singed and Malphite. Out of those three, only Malphite is a true tank, the other two belong in the Juggernaut and the special category. What's wrecking in top atm. Is bruisers like Irelia and Camille. Could it be that you play mostly botlane and not actually top since you are this misinformed? Also what tank does 1300 true dmg? Garen? Who's a Juggernaut btw, not a tank. He can ult for 1300 true dmg, provided you are a tank at about 10% of your hp, in which case most of the dmg is overkill and not effective dmg. I fundamentally disagree with everything you suggested. With that said, at least you present some interesting ideas and keep a civil tone, so probs for that. If tanks do become outliers again, they should be brought in check just like any other class ofc. However as the meta looks right now, with tanks being dumpstered by everyone having true dmg, they are not the problem you make them out to be.
Exhibit B (EUNE)
: Pd on garen
It's ok, but since attack speed is practically useless on Garen, it's somewhat of a gold waste. Even tri-force is more gold efficient thx to it's splitpush potential and the synergy with Sterak's. It's fun to build crit once in a while though.
Blakex13x (EUW)
: So your telling me then you have NEVER used chat in a negative way then when you game is purposely being ruined by trolls, afk's and feeders? and riot SHOULD give a damn see your using abusive words right there so yea im not the one with a negative attitude really am i? and riot should care about people ruining others games.
I have said nothing of my own behavior, as mine is rather irrelevant to the topic of this post. If it's that interesting to you though, then no, in fact I have never behaved like you in any of my games, no matter how frustrating. You see, I find that generally cursing at my screen instead of ranting at others in chat saves me a lot of typing time that could be spent actually contributing to the game. The fact that you can't even see how toxic your own behavior is makes me pretty confident you won't change for the better, so that perma ban will probably arrive sooner or later and when it does, good riddance.
Blakex13x (EUW)
: Here we are ONCE AGAIN !!!!!
Others being shit, purposely trolling or picking something bad, does not excuse your behavior. Your reply to the other comments on this page show that you can't even handle trutshful feedback either. If this is how you generally react/behave in chat, then you will be perma banned eventually and it will be absolutely deserved. Riot does not give a shit about what your teammates did or did not do, if they act like idiots they will eventually get banned just like you, so your indignance is completely misplaced.
: got demoted back to s4 for the 3rd time because of trolls and AFKers
If it's the third time you've been demoted back to Silver III it's most likely because you belong there. I mean no offense by saying this, it's just that everyone, your enemy team concluded has a chance of getting feeders and throwers, not just you and those who can carry games regardless are the ones who climb. If you look at it from a mathematical point of view, you have a better chance of getting the good team. Why? Because you make up 20% of your team and that leaves only 4 possibilities of a troll or afk or what not, while the enemy has 5 possible monkeys. If you duo with a friend, you can limit the risk of getting a troll by another 20% in your favor. The best advice I can give you is find someone to duo with, for the above reason as well as improved communication, it's simply the best way to climb. Other than that, stop deluding yourself that it's only your team. There is nothing you can do about a troll or afk'er frustrating as it is. Report them when your game is done and take the time to properly type out why you do so. Then move on and focus on what you can actually change. You. The only person on your team you can directly influence is you, so start there. Are you getting your last hits? Do you trade properly? Do you position properly in teamfights? Are you getting killed more often than you should? How is your decision making? Can you kite? You play the role I'm least familiar with, but I'm sure there are more aspects you can probably improve on, fewer deaths judging from your match history would be a good place to start. I wish you luck.
Rioter Comments
: Problems I personally see in champions.
By all means, pls rework Garen so I don't have to deal with people like you and people in low elo telling me my fav champ is trash and I'm trash for playing him just because they don't know how to play against him properly. You make some valid arguements, but you completely neglect to mention all the weaknesses that these champs suffer from. It just makes you sound biased, which takes away from what you are trying to convey here. Did it ever cross your mind that these champs are so easy and so accessible, they become predictable down to a t? There is a reason most of them are never seen in high elo, let alone professional play. It is so easy to counterpick pretty much everything on this list and the winrates of these champions reflect that. I play Garen because I think he's fun, not because he's easy or good, my go to mid is Azir and was Azir back when he was absolute trash too. If faceroll champs are hard for you to play against, perhaps you should consider making some proper counter picks instead of trying to outplay them purely based on mechanics that's how most of us deal with them.
Camile (EUW)
: Garen main, how do you enjoy this game?
Same as everyone else, I play the champions that I like.
: Garen is really strong, maybe even OP.
Hello, Garen main here. You have described the entirety of Garens kit and what it does correctly, however it seems that you don't actually consider his abilities and how they work depending on circumstance. Let's just take it from the beginning to the end. The passive: Like you say, it does give Garen a lot of hp regen, however you fail to mention that: 1) It does not work while in combat, 2) it does not heal for any particularly signifcant amount before lvl 11. Out of combat Garen's sustain is unsurpassed by any other champion, in combat however Garen has no passive. It encourages a hit and run playstyle where you go in, kill a squishie and gtf out, if you can. Not a particularly useful notion for the guy who's supposed to act as part of the frontline. Darius and Illaoi do the same but their in combat sustain and teamfight potential make them overall better picks. Garen's base Health is also nothing special when compared to most of the other juggernauts the two aforementioned included, so I honestly don't see why you consider it an issue. If it feels powerful in lane, just make sure you hit him every 8 seconds at least once and you deny him his hp regen entirely. The Q: As you say it does cleanse a slow upon activation and gives a movement speed boost, however, it only cleanses one slow and only upon activation. Any form of reapplied slow instantly counters that feature. Is {{champion:22}}? Has someone built {{item:3022}}? gg the slow will be instantly reapplied. Garen has to run straight at his enemies, he has no fancy flash abilities, no jumps, no skill apart from flash that let's him dodge cc or close the gap between himself and his target. In other words he is piss easy to kite. Yes he can run fast, but if you root him, if you cc him, slow him, displace him, use your own movement ability correctly, he cannot touch you, especially in a teamfight, where your entire team will be looking to keep him off his target. The dmg is decent especially on towers, but it really is nothing special unless he builds full crit or full lethality, both of which leave him quite squishy. The W: Garen does gain 30 mr and 30 armor by farming 120 minions, but you fail to mention that out of all the juggernauts, he starts off at some of the lowest base stats in regards to mr and armor out of all the champions. It is an excellent defensive ability, however it is on a very long cd during the laning phase (20 seconds) and it is ONLY if he times it right that he gets 60% dmg reduction and tenacity, on top of that it only lasts 6 seconds at max rank, rank 1 it only lasts 2. In other words you have an 18 second window to dish out dmg on him in lane that is more than enough for most champions. The E: Garen's E does provide armor shred, however you fail to mention that thios part of the ability only becomes active if his opponent is hit by 6 or more tics of the ability, meaning he practically has to channel the entire thing on you before it applies. You also don't mention that the dmg the spin deals is reduced by 33% if it hits more than 1 target and minions count towards that. Fight Garen in a minion wave and you take away a third of his dmg. The Ult: The mathematics you include on how this ability works are correct and you seem to realize that this is an execute. As such I have a very hard time understanding how you could even suggest that the ability would be fine without the missing hp component. Garen's ult does not scale with any of his stats, it is unaffected by his Ad, AP, HP whatever, items in other words have no effect on it. He could ult a full hp squishie with a build of pure ad and crit and it would still hit like a wet noodle. He could also ult a 10% hp Tank while buttnaked and deal 1.5 k dmg... That's how it works. What you are suggesting is that an ultimate ability on a long cd at max rank should only deal 575 dmg, when it provides literally nothing else and that is preposterous... To finish up here is some stuff for thought. Garen has a relatively good winrate in low elo, and practically no playrate above platinum. He is noobfriendly and he is made to punish mistakes, which means he thrives against bad to mediocre players, who try their hand on highly mechanical champions. Above plat, most people tend to know how to properly play various matchups and Garen is predicatable down to a T, he is so simple that anyone who has either played him or played against him a handful of times can recognize his attack patterns and will react and counter accordingly. I hope this cleared up some things for you, since you have not mentioned what you pick against a Garen, I cannot give yo any specific advice, so I'lll list a couple of champions that give him a very hard time in lane instead: {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:83}}
khaloudTN (EUW)
: WARRING KINGDOMS GAREN GOLD CHROMA
You haven't asked anything?
: i really can understand your point there and i would never entitle myself to command what a particular champ is to pick but there are categories riot made because they are designing the champs for this roles. so playing a support on support role is just playing by the rules u accepted when installing the game. and tbh i think there is difference between playing a non-meta champ and playing non-support champ as support. I would be totally fine with shen or kayle, but playing a non-support is in my opinion like building ap on a ad champ without ap scaling, because there are requirements for a champ to be support just like there are item requirements for an item built to be choosen because of the scaling. so don't missunderstand non-supports with non-meta support which are totally fine.
My point is that you have people who will choose things like support Singed, support Taliah, support Garen, support Vlad, none of which are supports or have the utility to fit in that categorically and still make it work. Obviously they handicap themselves and you by picking something like that, but every champion can bodyblock and sometimes an unexpected high damage support can win you the trades. So no it is not comparable to building items you cannot scale with. I'm not defending non-meta 'supports' I'm advocating that if people play to win, do their utmost and adapt the support playstyle, they should be able to play any champion they please, even if it seems %%%%%%ed. Remember when MF support was suddenly a good pick? Garen into a Blitzcrank works surprisingly well as a counter. J4 and MF can make some ridiculous combos. Anivia support if you can play it well can zone off objectives and prevent ganks like few others... I'm not saying that you should love or even enjoy weird support picks, but at the very least you can give people the benefit of the doubt and work with them as well as you can for the sake of the whole team.
: About trolling autofilled supports...
I usually pick a support if I get autofilled. Would never take something 'troll' in a ranked game. With that said however, who are you to judge what a troll support pick is? For all you know a player might pick Garen support because Garen is easy to play and generally a safe pick in any unusual situation. Not building a supp item and not getting a sightstone is not something I condone of, but you honestly have no bussiness thinking that you should decide what your supp plays and builds. Now if your supp runs it down lane, goes afk, or builds ap items on a champ with no ap scaling, then you can call it trolling. Until then, stop feeling that you are entitled to force your idea of meta on other people. Playing off-meta is not an offense and it never should be. Losing on purpose through griefing however is and it is important that the distinction is made. Before people start spamming me for playing the Devil's advocate... No I don't think that troll picks are a good idea in ranked, no I don't like it when the support doesn't get a sightstone myself. But picking a weird champion? Rather than spending a lot of time being a butthurt jackass, I will try my best to play around it and somehow magically the person usually seems less likely to go afk, run down lane, build useless items etc... Most of them actually build a sightstone and play like a support. I can totally understand your frustrations, but please also understand that sometimes when a person gets autofilled they don't necessarrily pick something weird just to spite you. Good luck on the rift, hope you get some great supports.
elin990 (EUW)
: 6 months into the game - I suck, will I ever get better ?
6 months is not very long, so don't despair. If you want to climb, I suggest you stick to one lane and focus on improving that. Garen top is a perfect example for a champ that will teach you all the core stuff you need and climbing to at least gold with him is well within scope. Just keep practicing and play consistently and you will see yourself climbing soon enough. Also don't lose heart because you placed higher last season. New players are always placed slightly high, as they have no prior performance to base placement on. After a reset all ranks are shoved downwards usually somewhere between 3 and 5 sub divisions. At any rate, you will regain your previous rank in no time if you have a consistent performance.
: Jax in not a Juggernaught, right. His only common point with all other guys is health stealing. Still, I see players complain about him as well. PS: ah! and high peak of damage, too. He kinda deals his damage in a very short burst.
Regardless he does not fall under that classification. He has hard cc and mobility, the two things juggernauts are characterized by not having. But yes I have seen him in a lot of games too.
: Something is clearly wrong with Juggernaughts.
Hey out of all the ones you mentioned only Nasus is currently considered S-tier, as in ban the mofo. Illaoi and Darius are considered A tier, Darius has been comfortably around there since his rework. Jax is not a Juggernaught and Garen simply happens to be the one guy who can shit on Nasus early and still survive him and out duel him at lvl 6+ . He is also a decent pick into Illaoi, so that might be why you see him. To your point though, yes there seems to be a lot of Juggernauts at the moment, but honestly I think that might be because a broader sample of Elo's are pushed together at the moment. What I mean by that is that they are often picked in Silver and Bronze sometimes in Gold and right now players from those three elo's overlap.
Darkx282 (EUNE)
: Free Skins Problems
You should contact support for this, they are usually quick to help as this is a pretty common issue. [https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new] This link should take you to the support site. Good luck.
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PhoenixOrtu

Level 145 (EUW)
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