Rioter Comments
: I was thinking about the same thing...and i think i would rather have tenacity than some measly bonus damage while the enemy is butchering me. However, maybe the 25% bonus health is worth. What this exactly means? 25% more of all the bonus health you are building, including the 350 health the object itself gives? That seems good... However, it would be nice for RioT to make a tanky item that give tenacity but it's more versatile than Zephyr and that does not force you to give up any possible other boots for Mercuries...
leaving juggernaut enhancement instead of replacing it with cinderhulk would be great as well and increase... you know... strategic diversity
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: I can say the same. But what if that 1 cc wont be cast on the tank? That tank can win the game. This is too big and too general speculation "what if".
don't confuse Tank and Bruiser, those are 2 different things.
Hrki (EUNE)
: Most of the time CC isn't used on the carries, on contrary, CC is used on the assassins or bruisers that try to get to the carries. I don't get the point of this post.
when I said carry, I didn't mean AD Carry, that word ment assassins and bruisers as well. It might mislead someone, sorry
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Using 1 cc on 1 target is not focusing im afraid.
but thats one CC that will not be casted on the carry. That one CC that can win the game.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Not necceserally, he couldnt deal his sustained damage and be annoying and make the enemy focus him, because he was cced.
>he couldnt make enemy focus him because enemy focused him
: >A simple riven bla bla bla.... so we changing the goalpost to count only the time that her ulti is activaed? Also Riven engages with E, so thats not 500 because was casted before ulti. Unless you cast ulti first then you waste your ulti duration. >Why do i need bla bla... Youu~ still don't ge-et it! SING WITH ME! >Her itemization bla bla... 1.3k brutalizer, 3.3k Hydra Meanwhile Fizz deals 8% of your current HP with 3.2k Ruined King Yasuo Power Spike is at 2.5k Statikk Shiv And many champions go the same build that Riven goes
>"Many champs go the build riven does" Yet "Mentions 2 items a riven never builds" , Of course she never builds them, Fizz have different itemization, I compared them, added another one cheaper than Riven powerspike (Yasuo) and stated that other champs build the same items that Riven does. >plus, neither of those have overloaded kits. thats just bullshit. Also maybe someday you will see the truth abot Maestro Yi CD. On the side note, AD Fizz made it into LCS when Riven did not.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: A kit is a point to discussion, because the kit is what shows a champs strenghts and weaknesses. And rivens kit has everything exept for a poke ability. > Riven's E has 6 seconds CD, they have somewhat higher CDs (Yi potentially resets) but offer something different. > Riven's strength is that she is able to soak up quite some dmg, however other champions are able to avoid getting CCd and damaged completely. > They are just different - how can you say which skill is stronger? It is not an objective statement that Riven's E is so incredibly strong, that nothing is able to compare. Yes, different, and whats better may be subjective, but i consider it stronger. First of all because of lower cooldown, it will be used more. And about damage dodging, yes i agree, but rivens e constains a dash too, so it can be used to do the same. And also in the same passage you quoted i said that the shield is incorporated into an incredibly strong kit, on alone it wouldnt be much, but with the whole kit..... > Firstly you claimed that only certain classes have certain aspects (which is not true as I proved) and Riven thus has the strengths of 3 classes, but does not have any weakness - which you had to admit is not true later on (sustain, but we will go there). > Thus Riven seems to be as tanky as a tank, while doing incredible damage without any weakness - which is not true. > I could go in-depth into the kit (which I probably have to, seeing how you want to focus on the kit), however if Riven were that disgustingly OP, > how would her numbers not be outstanding (just take winrate/pickrate and LCS). > While most people (like you) dislike taking ratios as prove, there has to be a reason why such an incredibly OP champion without weaknesses, which is also easy to play (thus should have a good winrate, even if balanced), but doesn't have outstanding ratios. I did not say that those aspects are reserved only for those classes, and they also have some exeptions, but i took the average of those classes. Also i do consider her as tanky as a tank, again because of her spammable shield. And no, LCS is not an argument. Im going to have to repeat it many times it seems.1% cannot balance the game out for 99%. Also LCS is completely different league from the rest of the game even, it cannot ebg compared and champions that are played there can hardly be compared to the rest of the game. Because for example, rengar is a really popular champ or at least was even after nerfs in pro leagues, but is he op? No, he is not. LCS is not the almighty god divinator which shows the balance of the game. > > Don't exaggerate please. > If you state that there is literally no champion, that can trade with Riven, how should I take you seriously? > That just seems like QQ, I think pretty much nobody would agree with you on that - even some of those who really dislike Riven. > And yes, it obviously matters that the enemy has a reaction time. That is pretty much essential for counterplay.. My mistake for not making myself clear, a riven of the same skill as any other champ, will only be beaten by her counters. Which is true, besides her counters she wins vs anybody considering everyone is equal skill. Her kit just does that. > Mh somewhat depends on how the game goes. > However this point is somewhat true, as Riven is not a fighter but an assassin (with sustained damage). > Still is only proves that RIven is somewhat broken, but not that she is OP. Guys, please, can you make a consensus? Because every time i discuss about riven one half says that she is a fighter with assasin qualities and others say that she is an assasin straight up. Can you choose one already? It is getting annoying not even fully knowing what the hell riven is. > Ew hehe. > The thing is: you are only talking about good Rivens. Yeah good Rivens will win most match-ups as they get matched versus bad - good opponents. > If good Rivens were to play versus good opponents things would be pretty equal, depending on match-up. Sadly they would not. Unless riven is countered. She will win the lane, only because of her lane dominating kit. > Scalings =/= game scaling. > Lategame is the moment when Rivens opponents group and all have fullbuild and thus can capitalize on Rivens rather slow engage - Riven without flash in lategame can only splitpush. If she would outscale anyone with that early/mid she would be perma-pick in LCS. > That is a fact, so do not exaggerate that much. Riven has a team. > > In LCS they take the best champions, assuming there won't happen too many mistakes, as they play on a high level. > That means not every LCS-champion is OP, but if a champion would be as OP as you describe, Riven would necessarily be perma-pick in LCS. I have to say that this is false, a good example is lee and ryan choi. Both are used in LCS, and are picked really a lot, but they are not op, because LCS is the only place where they fit in so well just because of their kits. My point is, that LCS doesnt care about power much and chooses based on other factors, out of which riven may fall out, because lets be real riven is stronger than lee for example. > CC does not work the same way against every champion. A Mundo cares way less about CC than your average assassin. > Riven cares more about CC than your average assassin (I described why). > Why do you refuse to differentiate so much? Because like i said many times, cc stops everybody from doing their jobs, even a cced tank wont do his job which can lead to a failure for the whole team. Any kind of cc on any champ can lead to that because that champ may not do his critical role in the fight. Thats why i do not consider cc an argument, since it pretty much screws everyone over. > As above, please try to differentiate. A champion that has to play aggressive is vulnerable to ganks - Riven has to sometimes use her mobility aggressively, a well-timed gank will destroy her. Defensive champions with Tp however will only want to farm and play defensive - they are not as vulnerable to ganks and even if ganked, they won't miss too much EXP due to TP. A well time gank like that would require either luck on junglers side to coincide with riven initiating agressively or camping which would take junglers attention from other objectives. It is highly unlikely to capitalize on these agressions much. And playing defensivly wont help that much since farm will be lost, a good riven will not push the lane. And TP has a 300 sec cd, that is quite high o cannot be spammed and will lead to exp and gold loss. > Not in the same way. > Don't you see, that I am trying to differentiate? > While CC is an awesome tool to fight a Riven, it is rather hard to CC-lock a full-tank Irelia, who still has burst. > Same with camping, but I can't write any more I answered to this in my upper posts.
I just glanced and saw this golden sentence >Because like i said many times, cc stops everybody from doing their jobs, even a cced tank wont do his job CC'ed tank DID his job. THATS HIS ROLE. THATS WHY HE EXISTS. To take aggro and protect others.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: > Name 2 items that when combined gives 290 AD. Hard mode: one of those items have to be > made from Long Sword, an item YOU said gives her powerspike. A simple riven build, Hail hydra adds 75, and a bloodthirter adds 80 damage, riven base ad is 56, considering many riven run aroud with 15 ad runes too. 75 + 80 + 56 + 15 = 226 ad at that time. Then her ultimate gives her 20% ad increase. So we have 226 + 45.2 = 271.2 ad. So it is really near 280 ad and gives her 500 hp shield with only two items and base 210 of the shield. > I suggest getting some knowledge. > ........Fizz Riven Yi > Q.......6......13...14 > W.....10......7....35 > E.......8.......6....14 > R......70.....50...75 Why do i need knowledge for seeing which champ has the lowest cooldowns here? Are you high on something and hallucinating maybe? > > nope. I said it in different post. There are people, top of the world in challenger and stuff that prefer raw AD build with no CDR. Check Best Riven NA May be so, but even then riven has at least brutalizer, still giving her cd reduction. > Where Riven has the advantage? Her itemization path gives her cd reduction faster than fizzes does and also it costs less. > Because we can't have people running around spouting bullshit, can we? Says the guy which posts a table in which it can easily be seen that master yi has longerst cooldowns yet repeats that he has the shortest.
>A simple riven bla bla bla.... so we changing the goalpost to count only the time that her ulti is activaed? Also Riven engages with E, so thats not 500 because was casted before ulti. Unless you cast ulti first then you waste your ulti duration. >Why do i need bla bla... Youu~ still don't ge-et it! SING WITH ME! >Her itemization bla bla... 1.3k brutalizer, 3.3k Hydra Meanwhile Fizz deals 8% of your current HP with 3.2k Ruined King Yasuo Power Spike is at 2.5k Statikk Shiv And many champions go the same build that Riven goes
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: 1. There is another problem with tje shields, they are highly conditional and require quite a lot of items to be succesfull. J4 needs shit loads of enemys, supports never get that much ap. Mages will take a long time and about 3 items to get that ammount of ap. Riven needs 2. 2. I suggest getting nee glasses , because master yi has the highest cs out of all those 3. 3. And that is quite the difference, especially since riven build always contains shit loads of cdr and fizz doesnt.. 4. Difference comes also from itemization paths and their costs, where riven has the advantage. 5. Most cc are skillshots, which will be dodged, targetable ones have a time beforr they hit, so she can dash away before hit. The only hard cc she could get is melle, but she has 4 dashes to get away. 6. Yet you defend her like your life.
>Riven needs 2. Name 2 items that when combined gives 290 AD. Hard mode: one of those items have to be made from Long Sword, an item YOU said gives her powerspike. >I suggest getting nee glasses , because master yi has the highest cs out of all those 3. I suggest getting some knowledge. >And that is quite the difference, especially since riven build always contains shit loads of cdr and fizz doesnt.. >>Always nope. I said it in different post. There are people, top of the world in challenger and stuff that prefer raw AD build with no CDR. Check Best Riven NA >Difference comes also from itemization paths and their costs, where riven has the advantage. Where Riven has the advantage? >Yet you defend her like your life. Because we can't have people running around spouting bullshit, can we?
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Riven, and how she is not balanced.
One more thing. You assume that every Riven plays the same way. If only you did some minimal research before posting you would notice that there are AT LEAST 2 big main ways to play riven. Safer one with 40% CDR and more bursty one with 0% CDR, all-in build.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: > I didn't take into consideration CDR because not all of them will have 40%. Those shields are still as strong or stronger than Riven. With higher cooldowns and most of these shields are either on tanks or supports. > Master Yi Step away from your pc, take your glasses, put them on, and then tell me what you see. > So the difference between spaming and not spaming is 2 seconds. Count again, plus take into consideration that both of those have resources to manage, riven doesnt. > Yes. Yi have 50 to 70 % damage reduction depending on ability level and you build Fizz as a 1 damage item and rest tank nowadays Im sorry, but i remember that during this defensive time yi cant do anything else, and no, fizz isnt built like that, unless its bronze. > ad hominem. see this After a month of getting ad hominem against me from guys like you, i stopped being nice, how you treat me riven lovers, i treat you. > Renekton gets 8-12 Q damage, 1.2-2.4 heal, 15-25 W damage, 18-22.5 E damage > Talon gets 13 Q damage, 12 W damage, all amplified by 3 % from E > Zed gets 6-15 Q damage, 16 E damage and 0.5 AD from W Rene is a lane bully, like riven, unlike her, his cooldowns are really high at all times. Talon, is an assasin, with only burst damage and no sustained damage, is not mobile and squishy. Zed, assasin, depends on his skills to do damage and also is squishy. Their kits are different from rivens and only 1 of these has any hard cc, rivens skills are almost the same scalings while also giving mobility, cc and defences at the same time. > No, I said that you will need some help from jungle and/or mid. Riven if is behind is hard to come back and early armor counters her . Someone forgets that riven is near ungankable with her 4 dashes. And riven is not hard to come back with, because of her kit designed to be good even when behind. And early armor counters shit, because she rushes brutalizer and doesnt care about it.
>With higher cooldowns and most of these shields are either on tanks or supports. You said ANY champ. And with CDR that some of those champs get it would be nearly the same. >Step away from your pc, take your glasses, put them on, and then tell me what you see. Still Master Yi. You don't get it don't you? >Count again Fizz E is 8 seconds, Riven E is 6 seconds. 8-6=2 >his cooldowns are really high 8,9,14 seconds. Riven has 13,7,6. So again, difference between long cooldowns and short cooldowns is 2 seconds. >Someone forgets that riven is near ungankable with her 4 dashes. So we are just throwing CC out of the window right now? Except for that one stun Riven has. Hard CC counters her hard. >After a month of getting ad hominem against me from guys like you, i stopped being nice, how you treat me riven lovers, i treat you. >>from guys like you > >how you treat me riven lovers, You don't even read what I am writing are you? Let me make it look as fancy as I can so maybe you will notice it this time. **~~I DON'T PLAY RIVEN, I BAN HER EVERY SINGLE GAME I CAN~~**
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: > J4 has 510 strong, 5 second long shield with a base cooldown of 12 seconds > Rumble has 240 strong + 60% AP, 2 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 6 seconds > Yasuo shield is 470 strong and is quickly recovered in fights. > With 2400 HP, Nautilus has 500 strong, 10 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 18 seconds > With 650 AP Orianna has 500 strong, 4 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 9 seconds + resists > With 435 AP Lulu has 500 strong, 6 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 10 seconds + damage > Fully stacked Mejai on Janna grants her 406 strong, 5 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 10 seconds + 68 AD Clealy someone didnt read my question. Read it again, and ask yourself what is wrong with your answer. > ........Fizz Riven Yi > Q.......6......13...14 > W.....10......7....35 > E.......8.......6....14 > R......70.....50...75 And who has the shortest cooldowns here? > But you CAN do something to shielded Riven, meanwhile Fizz is free from any kind of harm But he is invulnerable less time than riven is shielded, and he cant spam his invulnerability, like riven can. > Way to avoid all harm when you **build as a tank** anyway with 8% max hp damage and **50-70%** damage reduction Im sorry? Are we talking about fizz and yi anymore here? > 8% of target's missing health and 30+20% AD true damage with no problem to stay at your face Seems i was wrong about fizz, yet there is a a big problem here, he is a damage dealer which is squishy, riven isnt. > So why reduction of her health regen by half in one of the patches greatly reduced her effectiveness and dominance on her lane? It didnt, it only reduced the number of players playing her because they got scared after all those nerfs for no reason, this happens a lot actually. See- and - anyway - countered those already, look in the upper thread where i explained it in detail why it is not showing that riven is balanced. > You may not believe me, and it may be a shock for some players but you have your own team as well. > I did not say you dont, but you were implying that whole team will be against 1 riven, thats why i said what i said. > > And still in this same thread you said that no one has control over what will Riven do, and how will Riven win the game. > Im sorry? What? Im not quite following you. > 45% isn't THAT bad. It's still a good ratio. Fuck, Ashe or Heimer have 55% (+5 % from 50/50 instead of -5 % and no one is complaining. The most played champions have 45% +/- 2% win ratio. > Then why are you implying that rivens 53% percent ratio is what makes her balanced if a champ with 45% was considered op? If 45% isnt that bad, then why riven lovers always imply that 53% of riven ratio is bad? Make up your minds riven lovers. > Long Sword early gives her 2 damage form pasive, 12 from Q, 10 from w and 10 bonus shield. Holly shit, that powerspike. Considering what that gives to other champs, yes, it is a power spike. > This game will never be balanced and you know it. Also getting control over your enemy and the objectives is what win games. You dodge the question, and also it shouldnt mean that we shouldnt try to balance the game out. Yes, objectives win games, yet in one of your arguments before you said, that riven has to be camped to oblivion, which means enemy will get free objectives. This basically means that to counter riven you have to sacrifise the thing that wins games.
>Clealy someone didnt read my question. Read it again, and ask yourself what is wrong with your answer. I didn't take into consideration CDR because not all of them will have 40%. Those shields are still as strong or stronger than Riven. >And who has the shortest cooldowns here? Master Yi >and he cant spam So the difference between spaming and not spaming is 2 seconds. >Im sorry? Are we talking about fizz and yi anymore here? Yes. Yi have 50 to 70 % damage reduction depending on ability level and you build Fizz as a 1 damage item and rest tank nowadays >riven lovers ad hominem. see this >And I don't even play Riven, hell, I ban her every single game. anyway >Considering what that gives to other champs Renekton gets 8-12 Q damage, 1.2-2.4 heal, 15-25 W damage, 18-22.5 E damage Talon gets 13 Q damage, 12 W damage, all amplified by 3 % from E Zed gets 6-15 Q damage, 16 E damage and 0.5 AD from W >you said, that riven has to be camped to oblivion No, I said that you will need some help from jungle and/or mid. Riven if is behind is hard to come back and early armor counters her .
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: > so every support is a tank now. Give me at least 1 champion, with a 3.8 seconds shield, that is over 500 hp. Thats right, you cant. > yes It just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about, since neither yi or fizz have that short cooldowns on any of their skills. > instead they become ]untargetable for 0.75 seconds They become untargetable for a shorter time than riven is shielded and also have twice as long cooldowns. > yes! did you even looked at fizz kit? it has all of it as well Yes i looked, and both yi and fizz lack tankyness or an execute. > Because Riven has a hidden ability do dodge autoattacks when trying to CS. If its an aa from a mage, then it will be weak, and any other ranged champ will get beaten by riven because of their innate squishynes and rivens capability of bursting them. If these are targeted skills from mages, then again riven gets a free shot at them, because targeted spells have really short ranges. And if its a skillshot she will just dash away from it. > > Except that every counter to Riven (except Quinn) is Melee. And that every other counter is a lane bully, which is a stronger bully than riven, however for their bullying capabilities they lose some things, for example darius loses any kind of movement capabilities. And riven loses nothing. > I don't know? Could it be...? No! Can not be! That's BLASPHEMY! Not having sustain CAN NOT BE A WEAKNESS! Also Riven wen't from a champion with HIGHEST hp per 5 to LOWEST hp per 5 during her lifetime. Man, I would love to see your reaction to release Riven. Why does riven even need sustain? If she is capable of shielding any damage she wants, she is capable of mobile escapes, she is capable of bursting anyone down and she is capable of bullying and also sustained fighting? THats right, sustain doesnt affect her, because shes not some sort of a tank like garen is which lacks in certain parts. > Then you are playing it wrong. Let's say its a Blind Pick and you didn't know that your enemy will be Riven. And your champion loses trades with her. You do NOT engage in fights with Riven then. You ask for help from your jungler, maybe mid, and try to shut her down. > You can freeze the lane under your tower right? Or at least last hit good under tower? > Now for a Draft Pick. You either got countered by Riven (see Blind Pick for what to do) or you are countering her. If you don't feel good with champions that are good against her see Blind Pick again. If you are OK, and she still "hardly will take any damage" then you are doing something wrong. Do not engage, its easy to say for riven lovers, but they forget that this lets riven to free farm, you need to farm too, how will you not engage when you need to farm? And your choise for counterplay is basically calping her 24/7? You do realise that this takes away resources from other lanes, which means that riven is a big problem that has to be dealt with while enemy doesnt have to worry about it and can just take free drags whole game. To camp riven is just as important as objectives for whole team?] And just because a champ can be countered doesnt mean its balanced. If this game is based on who counters who, then why do we even play the game and not let a bot decide who wins for us? Because counters win everything? And i MUST counter riven to even have a chance at beating her? What logic is that? And what if every single one of her 3-4 counters gets banned? Then what? YOu are screwed instantly? > A Shield that can not be activated when your team is doing their job and still lasts only 1.5 seconds How wont she be able to activate it? You forget that riven has a team of her own? > They don't have to do that. They CAN do that. And thats what they do. And small revelation for you. So does Riven. They HAVE to do that. Every other fighter has only sustained damage, for it to be effective a fighter needs to fight for a long time, meaning that he needs def items to deal his damage. Riven however has both, burst and sustained damage and even innate defences as a 500 hp spammable shield. Meaning that she doesnt require to buy anything to be effective at doing her job, while other champs do. > Yes, anyone may lose, but a good player wont > Fixed that for you If you have two players of equal skill, one having riven and other a champ that doesnt coutnher her, riven will win every match up because of her kit which was designed for lane dominance. The only chance to beat an equal skill riven is to take one of her 3-4 counters, and even that is not guaranteed. > > You previously said that you only talk about good players. I don't think a good player would even try to let enemy Riven have control over the lane and the game. See above. They wouldnt have a choise in the matter because of rivens kit. See the above. > She doesn't sacrifice anything because YOU stated that not having a sustain cannot be a weakness. It can be, but for a champ like riven, sustain doesnt matter, see the above. > But having a 33% of ranked community stats (champion.gg) or 100% of OVERALL community stats (loldb or Riot) can be a way to judge champions. And it seems that overall Riven has 50.7% win ratio this week in all queues, and 50.9% win ratio in Platinum+ Ranked Queues. Oh i was waiting for this comment, answering to it for 100 times have made me an expert on this matter. First of all, win rate is influenced by over 10 thousand variables, even 1 rne on 1 champio can direct the whole flow of the game with a butterfly effect. Riots system doesnt have a capability of detecting what caused a win or a loss because of those being influence by so many variables, meaning that this statistic is unreliable and only shows a popularity of a champion at best and how players play with it, not the strenght of a champion. Secondly, may i remind you of our friend Le Blanc which had a 45% win rate at her broken times? Do you want to say that she was underpowered because of her low winrate even tohugh most of the community agreed that she is broken? See how unreliable these statistics are? > Riven can be shut down easily, and can struggle through the rest of the game if you are going to continue to apply pressure on her. Just like every other champ in game, and riven is even less affected because of her insane scalings after getting even 1 longsword with 360 gold. And again my logic applies, if every champ can be shut down does it mean that every champ in the game is/was/will be balanced?
>Give me at least 1 champion, with a 3.8 seconds shield, that is over 500 hp. Thats right, you cant. J4 has 510 strong, 5 second long shield with a base cooldown of 12 seconds Rumble has 240 strong + 60% AP, 2 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 6 seconds Yasuo shield is 470 strong and is quickly recovered in fights. With 2400 HP, Nautilus has 500 strong, 10 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 18 seconds With 650 AP Orianna has 500 strong, 4 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 9 seconds + resists With 435 AP Lulu has 500 strong, 6 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 10 seconds + damage Fully stacked Mejai on Janna grants her 406 strong, 5 seconds long shield with base cooldown of 10 seconds + 68 AD >It just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about, since neither yi or fizz have that short cooldowns on any of their skills. ........Fizz Riven Yi Q.......6......13...14 W.....10......7....35 E.......8.......6....14 R......70.....50...75 When Yi is doing his job right he gets -70% >They become untargetable for a shorter time than riven is shielded and also have twice as long cooldowns. But you CAN do something to shielded Riven, meanwhile Fizz is free from any kind of harm >Yes i looked, and both yi and fizz lack tankyness Way to avoid all harm when you build as a tank anyway with 8% max hp damage and 50-70% damage reduction >or an execute. 8% of target's missing health and 30+20% AD true damage with no problem to stay at your face >THats right, sustain doesnt affect her, So why reduction of her health regen by half in one of the patches greatly reduced her effectiveness and dominance on her lane? >but they forget that this lets riven to free farm, you need to farm too see >You ask for help from your jungler, maybe mid and >last hit ... under tower anyway... >And i MUST counter riven to even have a chance at beating her? What logic is that? It's YOUR LOGIC. I never said that. I said >f you don't feel good with champions that are good against her see Blind Pick again. You don't have to counter her to win the game. >How wont she be able to activate it? You forget that riven has a team of her own? You may not believe me, and it may be a shock for some players but you have your own team as well. > Meaning that she doesnt require to buy anything to be effective at doing her job And yet she does. Unless it's a total one sided stomp. >If you have two players of equal skill, one having riven and other a champ that doesnt coutnher her, riven will win every match up because of her kit which was designed for lane dominance. In that situation you would have a Good Riven Player and X Champ Player who was stupid enough to get his ass whipped by Riven. That's not equal skill. >See the above. See the above. >Riots system doesn't have a capability of detecting what caused a win or a loss because of those being influence by so many variables And still in this same thread you said that no one has control over what will Riven do, and how will Riven win the game. >45% win rate at her broken times? 45% isn't THAT bad. It's still a good ratio. Fuck, Ashe or Heimer have 55% (+5 % from 50/50 instead of -5 % and no one is complaining. The most played champions have 45% +/- 2% win ratio. >Just like every other champ in game, and riven is even less affected because of her insane scalings after getting even 1 longsword with 360 gold. Long Sword early gives her 2 damage form pasive, 12 from Q, 10 from w and 10 bonus shield. Holly shit, that powerspike. >And again my logic applies, if every champ can be shut down does it mean that every champ in the game is/was/will be balanced? This game will never be balanced and you know it. Also getting control over your enemy and the objectives is what win games.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Finally someone adresses my points ok, lets do this, see riven lovers? This is how you actually discuss, this is how you show you have balls instead of hiding behind excuses. > - the base of the argument obviously fails: CC etc is NOT connected to any class: mages have it, yet they are not tanks, burst is not necessarily connected to assassins etc. Yes, but i am saying the inherent strenghts of these classes, some other classes share them, but every class has its own, which i mentioned. If strenghts are not connected to classes, then what is? I am not saying that ONLY these classes have these strenghts, but they still have them. > - Riven is not tanky, simply no. Yasuo is able to theoretically soak up pretty much infinite dmg - is he tanky now? Yasuos shield is not scaling, only per level, it takes about 10 secs to actually recharge it besides ultimate proc, and also its half the strenght of riven shield. Riven can spam her shield every 3.8 seconds, yes, i made a mistake not 3, but 3.8 (WOW) seconds, during which 1.5 of which she will be shielded. ANd that shield scales from ad, and give easily over 500 hp. Such a spammable shield, i consider tankyness. > There are skills like Fizz E, Yi Q etc. who are ways more significant than Rivens E Are these skills on 3.8 sec cooldown? Do they contain a 500 hp shield? Are they paired up in kits which have cc,damage, tankyness, execute? > My point: do not exaggerate/make comparisons up. What exactly did i exagurate and made comparisons of? > My problem is that you state that she is completely OP rather than just working somewhat good in soloQ. > IMO a champion being OP is something completely different than being broken. > Poppy has probably the most broken kit - but is not OP at all. > Thus I think your arguments can not possibly prove your thesis. Then what is your definition of op or broken then? Poppy is not op because of a few reasons, one of which being, she actually has weaknesses too. And my arguments prove that riven is op, because i will refute what you said right now. Point 1. Mobility. You say that her dashes are slow, even though they are instant in their cast time and can be casted raally fast. And it doesnt matter if enemy has a reaction time, why so? Ranged champions wont hit a good riven, and melle champs will be beaten in every trade because of rivens kit. And sustain, again. Tell me, why exactly does sustain matter for riven? I will again repeat something abit changed, does sustain, is that big of a deal, that it should be overcompensated with a broken kit? Especially since she hardly will take any damage, because of her bulying capabilities? And yea, this is a generic argument, but in this case it can be applied. Because for the skill required, riven gives too much reward, all of the champs you mentioned have clear weaknesses that can be capitalized upon, and require more skill that riven, yes, even nautilus requires more skill. Point 2. No she does not. Her shield gives it all for her and she does not require to buy def items unless its the finishing GA. However other fighters must do that, just to be able to deal their sustained damage. Point 3. Yes, she may lose, but a good riven wont, because of her kit, i am not talking about bad rivens, i am talking only about good rivens and good other players, like it should be. Riven has lane dominance almost over every champ in the league with a few exeptions, she has the kit to win most of her match ups. But unlike other lane dominators, like darius, she doesnt again, sacrifise anything. And why do people say that riven gets outscaled in late game! She is the best ad scalings champ in game by far! Why do you keep doing this? Nobody outscales her in this game! > > Statistics/LCS is the only way to prove anything. If a champion has disprotionally high numbers (I'm not talking about only pick/winrate, but also numbers just Riot has), there's got to be a reason for that. It doesn't just happen by magic ponies or something like that. > Luckily you didn't even try to prove that Riven is OP, but only focused on her being broken, which is somewhat true. 1% of community cannot decide what is better for the rest 99%. If this were the case, no champs that are not played in lcs should be balanced, but they are. > CC is not even such a bad point, considering that Riven builds CDR - which means that CCing means more than CCing Irelia or Talon. > As Irelia is selfexplaining, I will just explain why CC doesn't mean that much to Talon: > Talon has pretty much 1 combo and then either got his job done (target dead) or not. After this combo is off he tries to escape and waits for his combo to come back. CCing him usually happens after his combo is done. Riven however has usually at least one of her Qs up, which means CC has a greater effect on her. Yes it is, and im tired of trying to explain it 11111111 times. ***EVERYONE GETS COUNTERED BY CC AND CANT DO THEIR JOB*** > Camping the lane is also a legit point of counterplay: as one of the few champions who actually get Ignite, Riven highly depends on playing aggressive/all-in-ing her opponent. Thus Riven is more vulnerable to ganks, as this will also stop her from shining in midgame. Works against every champ in game, and even less for riven because of her capabilities to either run away, or like darius just 1 vs 2. > But what is the most annoying part is that you dare to determine which argument is valid and which is not. > You posted arguments like "No other people than riven mains think that riven is hard to play" yet want to judge other arguments? Oh pls. > Calling them idiotic does not help to achieve a healthy discussion either. These arguments are invalid, because they work against every champ in game, when every other champ in game has HIS OWN, weaknesses. Riven does not. If you balance the game out by "cc" and "camp" then why are we balancing the game at all? ***Question, if cc and camping works vs every champ and is a viable counterplay option, then why the game is balanced at all? If every champion can be dealt with cc and camping? See the fundimental flaw in your logic of cc and camping?***
> [{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=NIL2nEtI,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-02-21T06:07:31.922+0000) >Such a spammable shield, i consider tankyness. so every support is a tank now. >Are these skills on 3.8 sec cooldown? yes >Do they contain a 500 hp shield? instead they become ]untargetable for 0.75 seconds >Are they paired up in kits which have cc,damage, tankyness, execute? yes! did you even looked at fizz kit? it has all of it as well >Poppy is not op because of a few reasons, one of which being, she actually has weaknesses too. Poopy actually is the only champion in the game right now who is a late game hyper-carry with bad early game. Which is good but Riot is going to change it anyway. But nevermind about Poppy, back to topic. >Ranged champions wont hit a good riven Because Riven has a hidden ability do dodge autoattacks when trying to CS. >melle champs will be beaten in every trade because of rivens kit. Except that every counter to Riven (except Quinn) is Melee. >Tell me, why exactly does sustain matter for riven? I don't know? Could it be...? No! Can not be! That's BLASPHEMY! Not having sustain CAN NOT BE A WEAKNESS! Also Riven wen't from a champion with HIGHEST hp per 5 to LOWEST hp per 5 during her lifetime. Man, I would love to see your reaction to release Riven. >Especially since she hardly will take any damage, because of her bulying capabilities? Then you are playing it wrong. Let's say its a Blind Pick and you didn't know that your enemy will be Riven. And your champion loses trades with her. You do NOT engage in fights with Riven then. You ask for help from your jungler, maybe mid, and try to shut her down. You can freeze the lane under your tower right? Or at least last hit good under tower? Now for a Draft Pick. You either got countered by Riven (see Blind Pick for what to do) or you are countering her. If you don't feel good with champions that are good against her see Blind Pick again. If you are OK, and she still "hardly will take any damage" then you are doing something wrong. >Her shield gives it all for her A Shield that can not be activated when your team is doing their job and still lasts only 1.5 seconds >However other fighters must do that, They don't have to do that. They CAN do that. And thats what they do. And small revelation for you. So does Riven. > Yes, she may lose, but a good riven wont, Yes, anyone may lose, but a good player wont Fixed that for you >she has the kit to win most of her match ups. You previously said that you only talk about good players. I don't think a good player would even try to let enemy Riven have control over the lane and the game. See above. >she doesnt again, sacrifise anything. She doesn't sacrifice anything because YOU stated that not having a sustain cannot be a weakness. >1% of community cannot decide what is better for the rest 99%. But having a 33% of ranked community stats (champion.gg) or 100% of OVERALL community stats (loldb or Riot) can be a way to judge champions. And it seems that overall Riven has 50.7% win ratio this week in all queues, and 50.9% win ratio in Platinum+ Ranked Queues. >Question, if cc and camping works vs every champ and is a viable counterplay option, then why the game is balanced at all? All I see is the fundamental flaw in your logic of that sentence. Riven can be shut down easily, and can struggle through the rest of the game if you are going to continue to apply pressure on her. And I don't even play Riven, hell, I ban her every single game. And for a different reason. That reason is you. I don't want her in hands of people who thinks that she is OP and easy to play and then fail every single time when they face the reality.
Jonxx (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ReberuAppu,realm=EUW,application-id=eZuvYsEr,discussion-id=ktK8aufe,comment-id=00210000,timestamp=2015-02-19T11:53:39.482+0000) > > I have the same problem for 6 months now. Part of the reason I stopped playing for 4 months. Lost a lot of rankeds because of that. Riot support didn't help me. And now I am back. Guess what, it still happens. "Attempting to reconnect" when 500 ping and I can see everyone playing and moving and I got the connection to the internet because my voice chat works. try ping command with -t modifier in cmd. Google it if you don't know what it is.
I did it multiple times. Whats more, during my 4 months of inactivity I managed to move to new house, get internet from new provider and get new PC. Shit still the same
: So has anyone else noticed this happening more and more? You get dc'd and then cant reconnect all the while you have internet access. If you do manage to reconnect it usually does not last and you will be dc'd AGAIN!
I have the same problem for 6 months now. Part of the reason I stopped playing for 4 months. Lost a lot of rankeds because of that. Riot support didn't help me. And now I am back. Guess what, it still happens. "Attempting to reconnect" when 500 ping and I can see everyone playing and moving and I got the connection to the internet because my voice chat works.
: Quick question re: Boards backgrounds
So that's Katarina? Good to know. http://i.imgur.com/Q5GDVdL.png

ReberuAppu

Level 172 (EUW)
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