: There is a pattern... people making posts like this posting their chat logs, it's always a wall of text. Typing more in one game than others type in a whole week. Stop typing and focus on your macro.
There was an entire conversation between me and I believe up to two other players in this case. It isn't a wall of just me talking, and takes place over the course of a game, with concentrated sections of dialogue.
: I recently got permanently banned too. Riot policy, as far as I can see, is to ban whenever certain keywords associated with discrimination are found in the logs (%%%g0t, j3w, %%%%%%, d0wn etc.). You have to trigger a player report for this, a rioter will check the logs and ban hammer every player guilty of using those words. Other kind of behaviors are usually not punished with permanent ban, and, in my experience, you usually get at least one warning with a 14 days suspension before they give you the permanent ban. So, overall the system is not that unfair. I wonder if you got banned for those logs only or if you have more in your history but I'm not here to judge you. I would advise you not to use the chat, especially in low elo, and if you can't the resist, just do not use discriminatory words, such as %%%got, etc. One could argue that other behaviors are not punished as hard as discriminatory language, but there's a good reason for it. Firstable, it's easier to review the logs and hammer down players who use discriminatory language then checking the game history of someone who softly ints game. Second, marketing. A game house making millions and investing in the esport scene cannot afford to forgive discriminatory language, it would be really bad for their public image. Yes, dealing with inters and flamers is tilting, indeed, but answering to that with discriminatory language is just plain stupid. Remember that this comes from a player that got permanently banned for the same reasons, so believe me, I'm not judging you or being a moralist. Just learn the lesson and avoid that kind of language during your games. {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
I see this is insightful. >Other kind of behaviors are usually not punished with permanent ban, and, in my experience, you usually get at least one warning with a 14 days suspension before they give you the permanent ban. This is indeed correct, I actually can't remember how long ago it was but I did get one. Time tends to cause the effect of the warning to wane, which is why I propose a way for us to visualise reformation rather than black and white you are a bad person bye, a lot of people are not actually like the way they are in league due to the nature of it.
nJacob (EUW)
: Wow, this isn't ban worthy at all, I mean sure, he was a big negative, but I guess it could be understandable if he was being dived constantly. I guess the system must ha--- >Rito Janglez: %%%got O-Oh...
Yeah, unfortunately competitive gaming has desensitized me to slurs. I can see why it should be filtered out of vocab. Should not have signed off that game with that but these chat logs are as it was.
: I'm not one of these people but some people genuinely type like that for 1 of 2 good reasons: 1. they want to imitate really life talking or 2. if they are a slow typer, they want to type while not being caught by the enemy team without being able to use abilities etc.
Actually its because during the game if I'm actively playing and not just travelling from base I have to take a quick second, type, cs, type etc
: > I start by defending myself No, you didn't. "Defense" means "preventing harm. You didn't do that. You attacked people, that doesn't prevent jack shit. It increases attacks towards you, that's the opposite of defense. Defense in League means muting, it's perfect protection and all you need to defend yourself. > I would like to know from the playerbase perspective how bad I am in comparison First of all: Comparison to others is irrelevant. The only things you need to compare yourself with are the rules/behavior standards. Did you break the rules? Yes you did, that's all that matters. How toxic others are is not relevant for that. But if you insist on a comparison: You used homophobic slur to insult people. That is pretty rare and quite extreme and a kind of behavior that is not at all tolerated by the vast majority of the League Community (or even the entire global gaming community). So if you insist on comparing yourself to other players, I'm afraid you did indeed behave much worse than almost all other players. Sure, I am sure there are people worse than you. But is that your standard? > For a permanent ban I also only got provided with one game of my chat log. But I'm honestly curious... Is this really the 0.006%? Yes and not. It's accurate that this makes you part of a very very tiny minority who behaves this way. However the exact number "0,006%" is probably not accurate anymore. This number comes from a time when the "zero tolerance system" (that comes down hard on stuff like sexism, homophobia, RL threats, racism, suicide encouragement etc) didn't exist yet. So permabans are slightly more common now and this numbers is probably not correct anymore. But it's still super rare.
> No, you didn't. "Defense" means "preventing harm. You didn't do that. You attacked people, that doesn't prevent jack shit. It increases attacks towards you, that's the opposite of defense. Defense in League means muting, it's perfect protection and all you need to defend yourself. I disagree with perfection protection being mute. Back in the day when "refuses to communicate" was a thing it seems like riot can't decide what is and isnt the correct way to combine communication with dealing with flame. I am not the type of person who goes into games assuming I will mute a person because they misunderstand a play/mistake I make. > First of all: Comparison to others is irrelevant. The only things you need to compare yourself with are the rules/behavior standards. Did you break the rules? Yes you did, that's all that matters. How toxic others are is not relevant for that. The entire point of this discussion is not to say I thought I wasn't toxic. My intention is to gauge how common this scenario is within league, and as a result of that issue a perma ban. No one is saying that my standards for decency is angelic looking at the log. > You used homophobic slur to insult people. That is pretty rare A few others have pointed out the weighting of these and other zero tolerant words and if it is really is rare then fair enough
Crımsonn (EUNE)
: If someone says something like "i hope your mother dies of cancer" you should stay cool ? Smh {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Yeah I think its a bit clinical, we are responsible for our own actions, but riot is assuming in this case that everyone is able to be rational in a game designed to be stressful - not negatively, just mentally taxing in order to play well.
: >Are you saying that the toxic players side of the chat log is all the context or enough of the context? I see a lot of this argument on the boards where "It doesn't matter what they did, only you", and my response is like "yes, but you're missing half on the conversation". It feels like people want their first judgement on the matter to be correct without accounting for all the text. Here's the thing. If you're backed into a corner, with 0 way out, and the only response is to flame back. Sure, then the other persons logs become relevant. But that's not the case. Every single person has the tools to mute these people, and report them so that the person in question can learn that that behaviour is not OK. The reason the rest of it is irrelevant, and isn't a "self defence" thing, is because when you retaliate in such a fashion, you've ignored the defensive measures provided that would resolve the situation. Instead it's a more "offensive" approach, which escalates the situation, drags more people in and all the rest - which does pretty much put you on the same level as the other person, just your triggers were different (e.g. they were triggered by X act, you were by their behaviour) - so there's really little difference between the two here tbh.
> The reason the rest of it is irrelevant, and isn't a "self defence" thing, is because when you retaliate in such a fashion, you've ignored the defensive measures provided that would resolve the situation. But many people don't work like that. We don't rationally - in a game where you literally have to spend upwards of 15-40+ minutes competing - have the moment to moment capacity to take someone's word and leave it at the door. Not everyone is ok with the notion that the person who flamed them thinks they are right. We don't resolve our issues by pressing mute, if I could do that in my household I would be in a parallel universe. What would help in being able to visualise our current 'state' in the game. We need a way to look at our behaviour in a way that is reflective. Sure, the decisions to flame back is ours, but being slammed with the 'btw your banned temp/perm' is less effective than a proper reform system. These situations can get to a point where I become someone who starts flaming and as a result become a part of the problem. This has happened to me on occasion, just as anyone else who's played this game for more than a few seasons I'm sure.
: >To provide context for the chat log: I was getting flamed by someone for dying continuously botlane, mainly because the enemy team had lane prio and was able to accomplish 2 dives back to back. I start by defending myself and the conversation becomes a back and forth devolving into flame as we go. Here's the thing. You've actively broken down yourself as to why it's not a good idea to engage in these sort of things. Yet you did it anyway :/ I'm not going to bother breaking down this point more, I just thought it was worth noting. >Rito Janglez: %%%got Leauge of Legends and Riot have a zero tolerance stance on homophobia, along with racism, sexism and pretty much all forms of discrimination. Using words like this will pretty much yield an instant ban in most cases, as it's a word that society in general, not just Riot, has deemed unacceptable. To add to this, the other player never made you use this word. Or flame back at all. These were all concious decisions that you made, albeit even if your judgement was clouded. I'd suggest removing that word from your vocabulary tbh.
> Here's the thing. You've actively broken down yourself as to why it's not a good idea to engage in these sort of things. Yet you did it anyway :/ I'm not going to bother breaking down this point more, I just thought it was worth noting. As of recently being made aware of the words that riot have a zero tolerance stance towards, I still have to question whether or not this is really representative of 0.006% of the league playerbase. I hear these kinds of slurs and comments every game to a point where its just a generic insult. Surely more people are banned if I am able to be? Again, this post is not meant to justify my behaviour, but bring into question how many people like me are considered extremely toxic by riots standards. > I'd suggest removing that word from your vocabulary tbh. This is purely from personal experience but almost 50% of the playerbase would be banned for a fairly 'regular' bad game if this kind of behaviour could lead to that.
: > for example 80% of them are intentional feeding, then it may suggest to me to improve in that aspect Why would you need reports for that? If you feed INTENTIONALLY, you did it...well...intentionally, so you know exactly what you did. No need to inform you about that, you already know it because you knowingly decided to do it. Also I think you misunderstood what Wandering Mist said. He said you don't know at what point in the punishment system OTHER PLAYERS are. You seem to wonder where "we" (so I assume yourself) are. But you already know that, you know your own previous punishments, you know the rules, you know if you broke them, you know if you have been a jerk to people.
People can report you for just about anything - since the IFS doesn't look for context if you use a slur not meant as a backlash like - '$#%^ i can't make it to baron in time' you could still have that be flagged if reported. >Also I think you misunderstood what Wandering Mist said Yes that was misinterpreted, I do think what I said still stands though, visualising reform comes from knowing what types of things other players flag me for. For sure intentional feeding was probably the worst example but it still stands that if I am able to realise I am going to hit a ban brick wall in continuing to behave this way then surely that can only be positive? Even if people try to play a system like that - minus the keywords, it means overall less inflammatory behaviour.
: Personally no, I wouldn't say this is ban-worthy at all, but as I found out when I wrote this thread: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/U7QUnYOm-when-do-you-report-your-teammates-for-flaming Some people are very very intolerant of anything that is negative, even if it's not directed at a particular person. One thing that I think players need to understand is that when they send a report about a player, they are effectively telling the system that they think the offending player deserves to be banned. After all, we have no idea what part of the punishment cycle a player is currently on, so I always assume that my report is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back and gets someone perma-banned.
This is a really good point actually. We have no clue what part of the process we are in. Its a bucket of bad and not bad yet. So if I could see I was getting reports and they tended to be a certain way - for example 80% of them are intentional feeding, then it may suggest to me to improve in that aspect. I can visualise the reform.
: You aren't alone. Many many people feel the need to defend themselves in-game even when logically speaking it's pointless. After all, you probably won't see or play with those people ever again so there is no need prove your worth to them.
Yeah exactly it's like you are aware of these things but some people just grind you down and make you switch and/or tilt. If you ignore them by muting the person or the whole team then you get reported anyway for something since you probably couldn't communicate. I mean it's a guaranteed report once someone gets going. They will flag you for what they can to maximise the odds that you play with *no one* ever again, not just them.
Kurotsu (EUW)
: Why? In like 20-30 minutes you'll never see nor remember them ever again.
Of course, many games go that way. You know they won't be relevant. But there are always going to be times where you refuse to take something lying down, regardless of how irrational the decision is in the long term. It's human
Kurotsu (EUW)
: I tend to notice a pattern of really long arguing texts resulting in some sort of ban. My own texts are usually never more than a few messages a game, and never anything counter-productive Also I like what a Rioter once said. He said something like "Yes, I get angry and I feel enraged at the game quite often. But I never type it out. I can even say it out loud, but never type it."
I think as a person I'm more susceptible to want to prove that I am not at fault for a situation. Especially in a competitive environment like league, where this type of conflict will almost certainly happen
Semaka (EUW)
: > But I'm honestly curious... Is this really the 0.006%? Seriously? Will you make another account? If yes, then yes, the number maintains. I think they are saying that 0.006% is the percentage of accounts that are perma banned, so if for every perma banned account, a new or 2-3 more accounts emerge, then yes, the percentage remains unchanged.
I dont know if I could create 2-3 more accounts, but a one for one account creation to suspension does not leave the percentage unchanged unfortunately, it would rise. if 5 out of 10 got banned, and then you were the 6th and created another account, that would be 6 out of 11. these percentages are not equivalent
Shantulka (EUNE)
: You flame, you offend, you get ban. I dont get why is there so many people providing logs of their "not cool" behavior, asking if they were in right. No, you didnt, If someone flames you, mute him.
This isn't a "I was right" post, just to clarify. So you think that this behaviour was *permanent* ban worthy? Interesting, thank you for the comment
Infernape (EUW)
: >Rito Janglez: %%%got I mean that's the nail in the coffin. That is one of those words that pretty much guarantee you a 14 day ban off the bat and a permaban if you've already been 14 day banned.
I see so it depends heavily on the flavour of insult in the moment? It just feels a bit raw that you can be attacked all game and if you have a bad spot where you retaliate its an instant game over. The system should tell you or allow you to reform by explaining that certain words are blacklisted. I definitely lost my cool towards the end there, but we've all been there. That word alone gave me access to the 0.006% club, but by that standpoint so many people must be in with me, because admittedly that word gets a huge amount of circulation regardless.
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Rito Janglez

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