: Dodging
As I said, the reason for adding the button is not to help out the dodgers. Hell, increase the time-penalty for all I care. The reason is to waste less time of the non-dodgers by forcing them to wait for the dodger to time-out.
: Dodging
bump, to those voting "NO", please leave a comment as to why this would be bad please
Rioter Comments
GTHeavy (EUNE)
: Off role assignment in ranked needs to stop
> [{quoted}](name=GTHeavy,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=gRjKW9gE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-23T14:13:29.483+0000) > > I usually queue as ADC and Support, I have not read the whole thread, so maybe someone already told you. But if you are willing to play support I would suggest you go primary supp, secondary adc so that you get support most likely. After you have played support you are autofill protected for 2 games, so you can switch to primary adc, secondary supp until you play a game as adc. After that you switch back to primary supp and secondary adc, rince and repeat. This way you will -- according to my experience with top and supp as roles -- play something like 1/3 adc and 2/3 supp. I do agree that it would be nicer if this behaviour would be automatic for primary xxx and secondary supp.
Tarolock (EUNE)
: >First I find this offensive. i find it offensive that you leave games so frequently that you get that message... afaik you dont get it the first time... (well i could be wrong i hardly ever left the game)
> [{quoted}](name=Tarolock,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=nYdlL82Q,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-25T04:36:39.311+0000) > > i find it offensive that you leave games so frequently that you get that message... afaik you dont get it the first time... (well i could be wrong i hardly ever left the game) I don't leave games frequently. Just happened today, and before that right after a buggy patch. In any case never voluntarily. And you ARE wrong. I did get it the first time. So next time before assuming stuff and putting blames on people for it make sure your assumptions are correct.
: Harsh Punishment
I agree that afk-ing should be penalized. I never said otherwise. However you need to incentivize people to try to reconnect, so the obvious solution to me is to deduct some LP from the AFK-ers final result, whether it be a victory or a defeat and distribute that deduction to his teammates. That way there IS an incentive to return to action, because by returning you get to increase hte chances of a victory which would now give a better result then a defeat. If you don't distinguish the outcome for the afk depending on a win or a loss there is NO incentive to try and return when issues beyond your control happen. Let me sketch an oversimplified example: suppose we have two teams of identical players (rank, LP, MMR, ...) that would result in +20 LP for every player on the victorious team and -20 LP for every player on the defeated team, if no players went AFK. Now suppose on team A one player went AFK and came back. One could depending on the "seriousness" of the AFK give a penalty to the AFK player. this could be 10 LP (resp. 20 LP or even 40 LP). The AFK would get 10 LP(resp. 0 LP or -20 LP) in case of victory and -30 LP (resp. -40 LP or -60 LP) in case of defeat. The penalty could arguably be distributed among his or her teammates. They would then get +22.5 LP (resp. +25 LP or +30 LP) in case of a victory and -17.5 LP (resp. -15 LP or -10 LP) in case of defeat. The penalty could be made dependent on the severity of the AFK and distributing the penalty among the teammates would soften the blow in case of defeat and increase the reward in case of victory, which seems appropriate to me. I don't see how the above system can be abused in any way by the AFK-er. First the games where he goes AFK are more prone to be defeats and defeats become more costly. And even in case of a win, he wins less than if he didn't go AFK. All-in-all no possible gains for the AFK-er. The optional idea of distributing the penalty among the teammates of the AFK-er has the benefit of softening the blow for the more abundant losses and increasing the reward in case of a rare victory. This might however potentially be abused to "donate" or "protect" friends' LP by going AFK at least 5 min before a certain victory or certain defeat. Personally I don't see much abuse potential here. Distributing the penalty is after all the zero-sum option. > why the f' would you get an decreased LP gain on a AFK game? That literally makes no sense AFKs should allways lose LP no matter if the game was won or not just for even complicating it. I don't care why you had to afk the fact is you were afk and made the game alot harder as it had to be I hope it is more clear now that I do not advocate only changing the LP-movement downward in case of a victory, but also in case of a loss. The only thing that is crucial in my opinion is that victory and defeat remain distinct LP-movements. And ofcourse that the result for the AFK-er is worse than if he didn't AFK. > Think about it, every time I'm losing, I'll just disconnect to not lose LP or lose less lp. > I'm winning super hard and I'm guaranteed to win? I'll tell my boosting premade to disconnect for me so I gain even more LP. > > This system can be easily abused and it will destroy the whole ranked experience. I hope you can see I did think about it and that it can't be abused, especially the option without distributing the penalty. > Also, if you disconnect, you have 5min to comeback before you are considered an afk which is more than enough to comeback in most cases. Interesting, I didn't know about the 5 minutes. Is this a known FACT or just a your experience? > You should also take into account that you are still very new and you're playing in a very low elo. Once you climb a little, you'll understand that it's impossible to comeback after being afk for 15min. It's more than half of a game duration since games are already decided by then and end around 25min. I understand your remark about low elo and higher elo. However the specifics are not all that important (in the sense that only the size of the penalty needs to depend on the specifics). The important bit is that there needs to be a distinction between a win and a loss even for the AFK-er. However with my idea it is feasible to make the penalty not only dependent on the length of the afk, but also on other statistics like elo. Riot can easily do a more elaborate calculation after the game. The game in the above example is a 50-50 game in case of no AFK. Suppose in some elo and with a specific severity of AFK the game became a 20-80 game. If the 50-50 game warranted the +20 LP / -20 LP payouts as in my example above. That would have given his teammates an expected LP-change of 50% x +20LP + 50% x -20LP = 0LP without the AFK. However because of the AFK event, the expected LP-change for the teammates became 20% x +20LP + 80% x -20 LP = +4LP - 16LP = -12LP. So the AFK-er would owe all of his teammates 12LP so he would be penalized 4x 12 LP = 48LP. Note that this would result in negative LP-changes for the AFK whatever the result. -68 LP in case of a loss and -28 LP in case of a victory. I have no problem with that since a victory is still better than a loss. > To sum up, I really understand your frustration, but this is the best system that could be found in order to avoid any abuse while being as fair as possible. Thank you for your understanding, but I strongly disagree about the current system being the best possible. As shown I have no quarrels with heavy penalties (where needed) but I really think that incentive to try to reconnect is necessary and lacking. On top of that the message when being penalized for afk-ing is inaccurate as it states "you will receive no rewards because of AFK-behaviour" instead of "your LP change will correspond to a defeat because of AFK-behaviour". With my proposed change (or some variant thereof) They could simply state "You will be penalized xx LP for AFK-behaviour"
Rioter Comments
Clαps (EUW)
: Punish Afk Rage Quitters harder please!!!!!!!!!!
LOL, I have an idea. Riot should flag rage-quiters and other sorts of bad behaviour-people AND flag nice people. And if queues get large enough, just put all "bad" people on on team and all "nice" people on the other. Nice bonus for the nice people. And I would love to see the team-chat of the "bad"-people team.
: Don't let a single player ruin ur mood bud And for future reference, if u get someone in ur team that does weird stuff and makes someone else dodge, and if you don't want to play with him Stop the queue, wait a few seconds, and queue again, this will almost certainly garantee you won't be put with the same group of people again
> [{quoted}](name=Call me Teddy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ERNWsumu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-04T21:08:08.496+0000) > and if you don't want to play with him > Stop the queue, wait a few seconds, and queue again, this will almost certainly garantee you won't be put with the same group of people again Cheers, will use that tip
Rioter Comments
Cypherous (EUW)
: Your free rotation is incorrect, the actual rotation is Cait, cass, ezreal, fiora, leona, noct, orianna, pyke, quinn, rek'sai, shyv, urgot, viktor and yuumi https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/319140823344087042/585411469294960670/unknown.png As you own ezreal that means you only have 19 not 20
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=L4nY1irI,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-04T10:15:42.470+0000) > > Your free rotation is incorrect, the actual rotation is > > Cait, cass, ezreal, fiora, leona, noct, orianna, pyke, quinn, rek'sai, shyv, urgot, viktor and yuumi > > https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/319140823344087042/585411469294960670/unknown.png > > As you own ezreal that means you only have 19 not 20 If that is the case then my client was showing the wrong F2P rotation. I just restarted my client again, and indeed the new F2P rotation finally showed up. Indeed you are correct that my shown lineup of F2P was in error. Apparently there's quite a bit of time between server-side update of F2P rotation and client-side. After all I freshly started today (client didn't keep running since yesterday) and restarted it several times to confirm the problem. And the F2P-rotation I gave above was from the last start-up. (Less than an hour ago).
Eambo (EUW)
: Hey SoaringAlbatros, If any of your owned champions are on the F2P rotation, this would result in your number being lower than needed. Unfortunately we can't lower the number needed for draft as this would result in a worst-case scenario of a player having no champions to select (10 bans + 10 picks).
> [{quoted}](name=Eambo,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=L4nY1irI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-04T09:56:12.211+0000) > > Hey SoaringAlbatros, > > If any of your owned champions are on the F2P rotation, this would result in your number being lower than needed. > > Unfortunately we can't lower the number needed for draft as this would result in a worst-case scenario of a player having no champions to select (10 bans + 10 picks). As I stated I was able to play the mode up until this morning just fine, it's only as of today that I can't play the mode any more. And no, none of my owned champions are in the F2P rotation. I have 6 champs owned and 18 OTHER champs in the F2P rotation. EDIT: for completeness I own Ezreal, Fizz, Lux, Morgana, Riven and Thresh and my/the F2P rotation yields me Azir, Braum, Darius, Gangplank, Gragas, Graves, Irelia, Janna, Jhin, Jinx, LeBlanc, Nasus, Syndra and Ziggs. (Sorry that's 14 not 18 as stated before, but still gives 6+14=20).
  Rioter Comments
Zedant (EUW)
: There was another tread talking about the same idea,but prob wont be listened by rito because RITO,they never listen. But they are jsut a small indie company
> [{quoted}](name=Zedant,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=AX69rIov,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-01T20:54:59.277+0000) > > But they are jsut a small indie company LoL, a small indie company that makes millions. I Heard something during MSI stream. Numbers might be somewhat off. Prizepool at that point was nearing 1Million dollars. 100k or something was prefunded (by the company MSI as part of the sponsorship deal I pressume) and the rest was from 10% of sales of certain skins in the game to fans. so that would make (1M - 100k)*.9/.1 = 8.1M profit for Rito. Not bad for a small indie company and one event. Perhaps they can afford 1 programmer to implement such a simple solution? PS: I do realize you're being sarcastic. I would do the same if that was the long time experience with all ideas like this getting squashed.
: What to do when jungle is non stop camping + towerdiving you?
Noob here, so take my advice with a grain of salt. 1. Inform the rest of your team about the situation and hope they either help (jngl counters, ...) or at least take advantage (jngl farms enemy jngl, ganks without fear of counter-gank) of the 4v3 situation on the rest of the map. 2. If the jngl really just camps near your tower awaiting your arrival, delay your arrival to at least coincide with a minion wave. Wasting his time he could use to farm, and extend the duration of the 4v3 on the rest of the map. 3. Buy off-build items to stack health and armor/MR, all to just survive, and further wasting his time and 4v3 ... If you manage to make him give up, just sell those items and take the loss of gold to buy more build-specific items. 4. Try not to get too frustrated and hope your team appreciates your effort to be a teamplayer by sacrificing your own progress to further the teams progress.
: Allow player to drag the surrender message again
I completely agree that (at low-lvl, since I'm a newbie) it becomes a case of trolling where one person who is having a negative experience/attitude starts to /ff every time they get a chance even though the "team" has already decided (for example 4v1) that surrender is not an option (yet). A possible solution, would be to have a permanent checkbox available in the hud that is originally checked and states something like "never surrender". When someone starts a vote, all the system needs to do is look at the state of every one's checkbox to get the result of the vote. When you want to surrender the checkbox can be un-checked and/or /ff can be used (which would also un-check the checkbox). I think this solution is more elegant because it would do away completely with the vote pop-up which is annoying when trying to focus on playing well/changing the tides. Perhaps when you change the state of your checkbox a pop-up with the current result pops up on YOUR client only. This could be a welcome addition to see what other's opinion are at the moment you change yours and as a warning for changing the state of the checkbox in case of a miss-click. If wanted, riot could even show the current state of the surrender vote next to the checkbox at all times, so one can with one glance see the vote's result at all times. All of this put together would basically remove the need for the surrender-related commands, because it would create a permanent live vote. And it would add the additional "benefit" that you can at all times check your teammates' state of mind.
RalxDrek (EUW)
: Im gonna sum up the post i was about to make: Buy an account and jump into ranked. If you are already experienced, just go into ranked. Ranked is all you appear to want in League of Legends: Ranked is all about those strats, outplays, map control, team composition, KDA, Surrender because your adc is afk, flaming your jungler, getting dragon minute 2, getting outplayed since champ select and so on. Oh, you can't play ranked because you are low level? Level up. Accept league's game design or leave the game. After all, they try encourage more newbies into the game. If you dont like it, then they are truly missing the point. The changes they are making are not for us veterans after all. Its just to ramp up competitiveness and bring more people into playing.
> [{quoted}](name=RalxDrek,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-01T10:52:53.339+0000) > > Im gonna sum up the post i was about to make: Buy an account and jump into ranked. > If you are already experienced, just go into ranked. Ranked is all you appear to want in League of Legends: Ranked is all about those strats, outplays, map control, team composition, KDA, Surrender because your adc is afk, flaming your jungler, getting dragon minute 2, getting outplayed since champ select and so on. > Oh, you can't play ranked because you are low level? Level up. > Why such a toxic comment? Are you just trying to upset me? First I don't need people to tell me what, where, when, how I should play, neither if I'm good, bad or whatever other adjective. Your opening absolutely doesn't contribute anything to the topic of the original post. I.e. is Normal-Blind fine as- is or should/could anything be changed about it to improve the first-time experience with pvp for newbies, like myself. And give reasons, not just opinions. > Accept league's game design or leave the game. After all, they try encourage more newbies into the game. If you dont like it, then they are truly missing the point. That is exactly the question I'm trying to address. I think that Normal-Blind is not encouraging as an introduction to pvp for newbies. That's why I propose those changes in my first post and others below it. > The changes they are making are not for us veterans after all. Its just to ramp up competitiveness and bring more people into playing. "Us Veterans"? I am not a veteran, as I stated many a time already in this thread. Perhaps you are too experienced, too high level to really judge the state of Normal-Blind for newbies. It happens all the time in all sorts of situation, where someone with deep-knowledge and long-time-experience concerning some subject isn't any longer able to appreciate the problems uneducated and inexperienced people have with regards to that subject. As for the ramp up, I argued in earlier posts in this thread that my proposed changes would help new players climb the ladder of competitiveness by introducing them to roles before the more complex system of Normal Draft. In conclusion, please, If you want to contribute to this discussion, try to look at it from the standpoint of new players, with low-level-accounts, trying to get their feet wet in pvp. And then and only then, feel free to comment on the merits or lack thereof in my proposed changes and arguments for it.
: "I am doing just that. Jumped into draft fast after having cleared 2 mid and 3 supp champs, and getting totally frustrated with the state of Normal-Blind. However I still would like Normal-Blind to get changed. First to help nice super-low-lvl players get nice games and second because when I get access to a champ that interests me, I would like to be able to test it out in Normal-blind p v p before I jump into Normal-Draft with it." In order for this to work you need to get rid of auto-fill and put all summoner spells at lvl 1. It's true having the toggle option to turn autofill on or off could work but I really don't see it in practice. People can still troll even when they get their "role".Queue times would be insanely long for those who choose auto-fill,imagine waiting 30 minutes for a game just to have someone dodge. Not everyone is that patient or has that time,some people only can play 1 or 2 hours a day. You don't need blind pick,though. I guess you are planning to start ranked in the future,normal draft serves that purpose,practicing other champions. I personally mostly play ranked but if I want to try something new I just go normal draft. But I'm "kinda" of an old player. For new players this is a great idea but it's just not gonna work cause either you are willing to wait longer to get your role or will have to wait a really long time to play the game. And it's not good practice to make new players have to wait insanely long queue times for a game,maybe just to get trolled at the end. It'd be a really bad experience. Something similar happens in Normal Draft,some people want fair matchups. For example,if you are Silver ,you don't have to face Plat+. This is what ranked is for,playing vs people of your "same" skill-level. I think all modes are fine the way they are. People just need to be nicer to each other. You have been barely playing LoL for a month ffs,just enjoy the game as a new player. To sum up,it's a cool/good idea but some things just don't work in practice. Communism is also a good idea.
> [{quoted}](name= Rhaykko,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T14:19:07.584+0000) > > In order for this to work you need to get rid of auto-fill and put all summoner spells at lvl 1. > It's true having the toggle option to turn autofill on or off could work but I really don't see it in practice. People can still troll even when they get their "role".Queue times would be insanely long for those who choose auto-fill,imagine waiting 30 minutes for a game just to have someone dodge. Not everyone is that patient or has that time,some people only can play 1 or 2 hours a day. > I'm probably missing something here, I thought that auto-fill was that sometimes in Normal-Draft you don't get any of your choices (primary or secondary role) when queue -lengths are getting to long. This in an effort to get a game going in a reasonable time. Please enlighten me if I have this completely wrong (I am still a noob after all and eager to learn). > You don't need blind pick,though. I guess you are planning to start ranked in the future,normal draft serves that purpose,practicing other champions. I personally mostly play ranked but if I want to try something new I just go normal draft. > I get your point, but I tried avoiding playing completely new -- for me -- champs in Normal-Draft to avoid upsetting team-mates by being totally useless the first few tries. Especially since people get really worked up if things aren't going their way. Especially as a supp or jngl you get lots of abuse since people expect too much from those roles (in terms of saving their ...). > But I'm "kinda" of an old player. For new players this is a great idea but it's just not gonna work cause either you are willing to wait longer to get your role or will have to wait a really long time to play the game. And it's not good practice to make new players have to wait insanely long queue times for a game,maybe just to get trolled at the end. It'd be a really bad experience. > I kinda agree with you there, but I'm not so certain that waiting times would be that much longer. Especially if you showed waiting times depending on the role you choose prior to choosing your role. I myself would probably specialize in one of those roles that aren't as popular when I noticed that they are giving me shorter waiting times. For example there are at some point 100 people in the queue. 25 each have chosen the roles top, mid, supp and adc and none have chosen the role jngl. Then you would get to see something like "<10 sec waiting time" when you are to choose your role pre-queue. > Something similar happens in Normal Draft,some people want fair matchups. For example,if you are Silver ,you don't have to face Plat+. > This is what ranked is for,playing vs people of your "same" skill-level. > Not gonna touch that subject, because of lack of experience. > I think all modes are fine the way they are. > Lets agree to disagree here. > People just need to be nicer to each other. > +1 As an aside I think my idea would be a small help in that direction as explained in previous posts in this tread. > You have been barely playing LoL for a month ffs,just enjoy the game as a new player. > That's my point. I think I would have enjoyed my transition from pvai into pvp a lot more if my idea or something similar would have been in place. > To sum up,it's a cool/good idea but some things just don't work in practice. Communism is also a good idea. Ty for thinking it's a cool idea. About implying that it just wouldn't work, I think we won't know until we try. And the current state of Normal-Blind seems to frustrate not just me, from what I've seen so far.
: for a period i played a lot of blinds because queue times were shorter and you don't have to wait those additional 5 minutes while every team member choose someone but blind is just pure cancer, save yourself some cerebral cortex and play draft instead
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Prepuzius,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-31T13:19:38.234+0000) > > for a period i played a lot of blinds because queue times were shorter and you don't have to wait those additional 5 minutes while every team member choose someone > > but blind is just pure cancer, save yourself some cerebral cortex and play draft instead I get you, and I do play Normal-Draft now. But since you find Normal-Blind pure cancer, would a rework (like what I propose or something else/better) not make it a more fun environment? Would the queue-times + champ-select time be that much longer if players choose their role and champ before entering the queue. Especially when adding the additional idea of showing queue lengths/times (during role choice) for different roles as proposed in one of my later posts?
Cypherous (EUW)
: > My point is that it is still blind with respect to the enemy team. Yes but the blind doesn't ONLY apply to the enemy team, you're going in to the match without anything pre-picked, at all > Besides that in Normal-Blind you can totally make a premade that has all the info you want about your own team. Then go and do that :P > And there is a champ-select stage specifically to be able to SEE what YOUR team wants to do (and coordinate it albeit in little time). So nothing blind about that part. You're still entering in to that blind, its your job to communicate with the team at that point, if you want to pre-select your roles then join the draft queue, its just that simple
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T11:54:39.069+0000) > > Yes but the blind doesn't ONLY apply to the enemy team, you're going in to the match without anything pre-picked, at all > > Then go and do that :P > > You're still entering in to that blind, its your job to communicate with the team at that point, if you want to pre-select your roles then join the draft queue, its just that simple So basically the only reason you find my idea unacceptable is because it's CALLED blind and, if I understand you correctly, that means you shouldn't be able to have a GOOD chance at playing the role and champ you prefer, or be able to avoid playing with in-game toxic players. Remember I'm talking from the view-point of a new player, with a small choice of champions and little experience in different roles. If you're so dead-set on blind being absolutely blind than perhaps you would want Normal-Blind queue to select your role and champ for you and give you no choice. Now that would be blind. I don't know how much Normal-Blind you still play as a lvl 139, and whether the experience than is better. But try playing on a new account at lvl 10-ish with a new champion and a role of YOUR choice in Normal-Blind. For example: try getting a game where you can play a solo mid-lane, or try playing a supp in bot WITH something resembling one adc. Try forgetting about what Normal-Blind is CALLED and think about it as the LOWEST TIER of PvP available and see if that changes anything. As to your remark to go play Normal-Draft. I do just that, because Normal-Blind in it's current state is unbearable to me at low-lvl. I'll leave it at that before this all becomes too toxic. As for your remark about communication. That's exactly one of the points I made in my original post. In the current state, there isn't enough time to coordinate anything decently in low-lvl Normal-Blind. To reiterate: 1) you only get like 60ish seconds, 2) many people don't understand what you're trying to say because they haven't heard of roles and meta, 3) quite a lot of people just don't wanna be cooperative and 4) some people just get down-right aggressive when asked a friendly request. In short, at low-lvl, it is neigh impossible to coordinate a somewhat balanced team (as evidenced by me not being able to play for almost like 2 days straight, when trying to only play a reasonable team-setup). TL&DR try thinking of Normal-Blind as to lowest tier of pvp instead of focussing on it's name.
: For this,Riot should make available every summoner spell since lvl 1. I think the idea is good,but I don't think it'd work. Let me explain. What would you do with autofill? Riot has already stated they can't get rid of autofill. The reason blind pick exists is mainly because WAY shorter queue times or people not having enough champions to play draft mode. I think it's fine the way it is. You can still play whatever you want most of the time,it won't really make a difference. And you are lvl 24 already,you have more than enough champions to play draft mode. I also see you're trying Thresh. Love it. Edit: https://youtu.be/-Y0aBCn8Xpw Thought you'd enjoy this. One of the best things to do as a Thresh player.
> [{quoted}](name= Rhaykko,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-31T05:56:05.564+0000) > > For this,Riot should make available every summoner spell since lvl 1. > Good point, One can indeed not really play jngl before account-lvl 9. This problem is/can be alleviated though by the fact that super-low-levels get combined with higher lvl during the queuing phase as already happens now. > I think the idea is good,but I don't think it'd work. Let me explain. > > What would you do with autofill? Riot has already stated they can't get rid of autofill. > I can understand the "necessity" for auto-fill to reduce queue-time. Auto-fill would indeed create a -- minor -- problem. However playing Normal-Draft now, I experience that auto-filled people tend to dodge the game. Which is fine in my book. I'd rather dodge or have others dodge, because in the current state it's always the nicer people that get forced out of their preferred role. And people that dodge do get penalized for it, which does discourage people to do so. When everybody gets auto-filled a fair amount in each role, it would be more fair on those nicer people. Ofcourse I realize that people can still ruin the game for others by playing "Wat they want" after being auto-filled. However, some will just dodge when auto-filled, so the frequency of people forcing people out of their favorite role would be reduced too. The end-result would still be positive. Nice/flexible people getting more nice games and stubborn people kept at bay. The combination with people not having the tools, summoner spells (especially smite) and champions, to allow them to be flexible would be a little more of a problem. Although nothing insurmountable. I think it's fine that people play a role with a less than optimal champ or setup, since this happens anyways with us noobs that don't have the knowledge yet to even be close to optimal in our favorite role(s). I'd rather play with bad nice people than nasty people good or bad. > The reason blind pick exists is mainly because WAY shorter queue times or people not having enough champions to play draft mode. > I understand the appeal of the shorter queue-times. Maybe at the point of choosing your preferred role before queuing up they could show an estimated waiting time for each role. That way people would be able to see what roles are harder to fill and decide upon that knowledge that they will try out such a role in order to get more play time. The side effect would than be that people would spread out more across roles voluntarily. > I think it's fine the way it is. You can still play whatever you want most of the time,it won't really make a difference. > Totally respect that opinion, and yes, once your lvl increases it seems the problems do get lessened. However, as I tried to argue above, the potential downsides you mentioned do come with some upsides of their own. > And you are lvl 24 already,you have more than enough champions to play draft mode. I am doing just that. Jumped into draft fast after having cleared 2 mid and 3 supp champs, and getting totally frustrated with the state of Normal-Blind. However I still would like Normal-Blind to get changed. First to help nice super-low-lvl players get nice games and second because when I get access to a champ that interests me, I would like to be able to test it out in Normal-blind p v p before I jump into Normal-Draft with it. > > I also see you're trying Thresh. Love it. > Yeah, love the champ, just a shame that most adc's I play with don't have a clue about the W (lantern). And since we're EUW it's sometimes though to explain since not everybody understands english. And Thresh with an adc that doesn't use your W makes Thresh way less useful. > Edit: https://youtu.be/-Y0aBCn8Xpw > Thought you'd enjoy this. One of the best things to do as a Thresh player. Nice.
: If only Normal-Blind would force us to declare intention.
Anybody else that want to chime in? Pro or con. I have a hard time believing that I'm the only one thinking this idea is a good idea.
: on what basis you call yourself a noob you seem to know more than the average person for your level and yeah not everyone plays blind pick with premades so still no..maybe you should play with premades so your team makes more sense to you nobody thinks about what's best in blind pick things like no jng teams are doable so jng are not needed when none wants to fill it context is important, it's a mode that many people use for fun mostly and to test new champs also you are wrong pro play "meta" and general ranked meta are slightly different but whatever i don't need u to tell me what's meta but your links don't work..
> [{quoted}](name=LetMeAfkPlss,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T00:14:59.414+0000) > > on what basis you call yourself a noob you seem to know more than the average person for your level > and yeah not everyone plays blind pick with premades so still no..maybe you should play with premades so your team makes more sense to you > First, thank you for considering me relatively knowledgeable. I call myself a noob on the basis that I'm playing the game since 3-4 weeks. I know things because I'm interested in knowing things and so I look them up. I hope you don't hold THAT against me. ;-) I know not everyone, probably most in Normal-Blind don't play premades, I'm just saying it's an option. The point is that if you play with random people you want to have at least an idea of what to expect. And right now, what I expect is that more than 1, often even 3 people want to play the same role/lane. Very few people want to be flexible in their choices and those that do end up most of the time having to play something else than what they initially intended. But usually that's not even enough, because some others still refuse to split the effort. And so games with an empty lane are not that uncommon. And yes if I was a regular with enough of an in-game friend list I would probably play premades, but since I am a noob, as stated numerous times already, I don't have such an extensive friend list. > nobody thinks about what's best in blind pick things like no jng teams are doable so jng are not needed when none wants to fill it context is important, it's a mode that many people use for fun mostly and to test new champs The fact that many don't think about what's best in Normal-Blind proves my point, in that it would help those players find out what works, has worked and will probably continue to work in the foreseeable future. And the fact that no jngl (or no supp for that matter) are "doable" in Normal-Blind is because the opposing team has the same problems (I.e. they often don't have the GOOD idea of having a jungler either.) The problem is, when you end up in a team that's so far off-meta and the opposing team managed to get a working meta-setup on the rails you just get demolished. In closing here, I understand the need to experiment with the meta. But it isn't going to work without cooperation of your teammates. And cooperation is a though ask in Normal-Blind without a premade. Also isn't it more fun that when you want to play a "solo-lane" that it is actually solo and if you want to play supp that there is an adc to supp. And as for testing a new champ wouldn't it be nice to actually test it in the role you want to test it without having to worry about how others will thwart that attempt by denying you the role in which you want to test it. > also you are wrong pro play "meta"; and general ranked meta are slightly different but whatever > i don't need u to tell me what's meta but your links don't work.. Edited the links in my earlier post so they should work now. And I'm not trying to tell you what THE META is. I'm just using meta in the sence of a "normal" team setup to start the laning phase: 1 top, 1 mid, 1 jngl, 2 bot consisting of an adc and a supp. I think/hope we can agree that this is indeed the normal/meta team setup. I'm not talking about when phases end, whether or not the midlaner should be a mage or whatnot. And yes I'm aware that deviations from the meta are used by pro's and other highly ranked teams/players, that is after all how the meta gets established. However the meta in the sence that I intended it is pretty much 100% adhered to in the games I observed. I've seen one where adc and supp as a duo took on the jungling role. But that was, as was explained by to team afterwards, as a surprise tactic to get the opponent off-balance. They didn't repeat it in the tournament. Anyway, let me end my rant here with a question. Would you recommend a new player who starts a game to pick one of the five above roles and try it in a game? Maybe changing to another of those five roles after a couple of games. And if yes, would that than not imply that it is also a good idea for 5 new players that form a team to also pick one of those five roles? And than it is only a minor step for everybody on that team to pick non-conflicting roles, is it not?
: Banning issues
Anything that can be done to limit the possibilities of trolls AND people from making honest mistakes should be done. period.
: If only Normal-Blind would force us to declare intention.
Look a selection of preference doesn't make you do anything, Trolls can pick supp/Vayne and play mid, nothing's gonna stop that. Smart people that have a better idea than the current meta (must be some very good players that are capable of that) can do so with my proposed ideas. The point is the meta is what it is with good reason, and it's probably a good thing to familiarize new players with it without the difficulties involved in jumping straight into Normal-Draft.
Cypherous (EUW)
: It does, because the blind doesn't specifically refer to the enemy team, it also means you don't know what roles other players want, if you want a role selection you play draft, blind pick isn't that
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-30T23:34:25.513+0000) > > It does, because the blind doesn't specifically refer to the enemy team, it also means you don't know what roles other players want, if you want a role selection you play draft, blind pick isn't that My point is that it is still blind with respect to the enemy team. Besides that in Normal-Blind you can totally make a premade that has all the info you want about your own team. And there is a champ-select stage specifically to be able to SEE what YOUR team wants to do (and coordinate it albeit in little time). So nothing blind about that part.
: just because pro play does this or that doesn't mean the average player should blindly follow them you are entitled to the way you want to play but you can't force others to do it also you shouldn't compare yourself to pro play all the time you can't play at their level most of us can't too they play the game at an entirely different league
> [{quoted}](name=LetMeAfkPlss,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-30T22:56:31.989+0000) > > just because pro play does this or that doesn't mean the average player should blindly follow them you are entitled to the way you want to play but you can't force others to do it > > also you shouldn't compare yourself to pro play all the time you can't play at their level most of us can't too they play the game at an entirely different league First, the meta exists because the best players established it worked the best. And I rather follow what the best players think is best than what other noobs (as already stated I'm a noob too) think is best. Besides my idea wouldn't dissalow people from playing differently than declared. If you make a premade, you can declare whatever and play totally differently. Second I'm not comparing myself to the pro's or any of the other top players, I'm a noob that is trying to learn from the best that's a totally different thing. As a side info you might have a read here [Why Am I Here: A Guide to Roles and Lanes](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3160040) and [The History of the League of Legends Meta Game](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3112440). It's a little dated to be fair, but contains some useful info about how the meta is what it is and how it evolved.
: >total noobs (that haven't read up on the game) declare, for instance, that the jungler-role is not needed jng is indeed not needed especially in blind it may be a noob thing to say for you but it's the truth riot tries to force this shitty meta on us so hard and not many of us like it, we find the chance to break free from it in blind pick once in a while and you want to take that away from us? just play well roles don't matter
> [{quoted}](name=LetMeAfkPlss,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-30T21:35:16.040+0000) > > jng is indeed not needed especially in blind it may be a noob thing to say for you but it's the truth riot tries to force this shitty meta on us so hard and not many of us like it, we find the chance to break free from it in blind pick once in a while and you want to take that away from us? just play well roles don't matter Have you seen any pro championship like the MSI lately, never do they play without a jnglr (a real jnglr)
Cypherous (EUW)
: Defeats the purpose of blind pick if you're declaring what you want, in that case you play draft :P
> [{quoted}](name=Cypherous,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=Vuq8rh0F,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-30T21:06:42.615+0000) > > Defeats the purpose of blind pick if you're declaring what you want, in that case you play draft :P No you don't. It's still blind. You don't know what the opposing team picks.
Rioter Comments
: This new change not only is annoying but enables trolls
+1 I also want an option in game to auto-vote for or against surrender (always against in my case) and at least have the voting display disapear once I HAVE voted.

SoaringAlbatros

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