Edelveiss (EUNE)
: Support is underrated..
supports usually hoard all the honors.. a good support wont be lacking in honors.
Rëngár (EUW)
: Rengar ult syndrome, serious condition
maybe you need to feel his will
: are adcs supposed to be able to carry or ?
your mind is still in a dark place, so you cant see anything
xWhiTzZyx (EUW)
: i agree, an ADC is nothing without his team, however, a botlane ADC is not usually the one that has percentage health damage and i don't think botlane needs nerfing. in fact i personally think ADC's are weak when compared to the AP carries higher burst and usually higher range though i respect the different roles both fill. As a Top laner i love nothing more than to tp bot and give them a boost however its such a trade off and so situational that more often than not it gives the enemy top laner chance to take a tower and open themselves up to be able to roam a lot more than you as you're pushing the lane back.
> As a Top laner i love nothing more than to tp bot and give them a boost however its such a trade off and so situational that more often than not it gives the enemy top laner chance to take a tower and open themselves up to be able to roam a lot more than you as you're pushing the lane back just a tip on that topic, if your roam results in a ''botlane tower taken'' in exchange for toplane tower. which lane is more likely to carry 90% of time ? i think personally its botlane. hence its a choice.. i know as a tank that i can always farm my way back into the game and ''run'' on limited farm compared to enemy adc that has now lost his tower. if the enemy roams than i will match his roam, while freezing the wave in a uncomfortable place, near my inner tower.. as result if he returns to lane, than i will together with my team ''kill the overextended'' toplaner. AKA so in this situation, he has a 'weaker'' botlane, and eventually our now ''free and confident botlane'' can either roam to mid or top. Enemy toplaner will have to deal with a tilted botlane that needs to farm itself back into the game, So he has two choices remaining, now that he took top tower and you took bot tower. 1. ENemy toplaner roams 2. enemy toplaner attempts to splitpush with his lead that he gained on you. However if i manage to cancel both these options, than he has lost the game 100%.. as he is playing against time and i have all the time in the world.. as my botlane is confident and outscaling his botlane with advantage. I have time on my side and he doesnt have the luxury to do what he likes. However, I already know his choices as ''he will now be reactionairy'', and i know my choices ''because im the one taking intiative each time'', than i should learn how to make ''better'' choices after pulling my botlane ahead. '' conclusion of all choices'' So what should i focus on after taking bot tower ? 1. Lockdown all his roams, use my tp to not let him disturb my now winning ''botlane'' that is likely pushing on mid.. i will try to keep him busy top, while the rest of map burns and i am in control. 2. i will prevent him from splitpushing so he cant disturb, my now ''winning'' team that is pushing forward thanks to my roam to bot earlier that freed them to rotate. Furthermore, i can ask my jungler assistance after i crushed botlane and he can help me execute, the enemy toplaner and we can take the top tower. my likely more confident team ''after taking bot tower and possible drake'' is likely more willing to now help me kill him.. and thus i have a ''team'' advantage that i created by encouraging them to play as a team. Furthermore. Botlane roaming > Toplane roaming. however if the enemy toplaner is roaming, than i will make sure his roam will fail personally. Furthermore another option that happens next after mid tower is taken ? what happens next is a 4 man on the enemy toplaner. This process repeats itself in many games. THe enemy toplaner is likely already tilted before all of these things happen. most Toplaners will watch helplessly as you do these things. even if a toplaner wins his lane they usually 80% cant carry against the motions on the rest of map. this is something alot of toplaners complain about. like i said earlier. you have choice in this game. 1. choose to play around your team and be a team member. 2. Choose to carry on your own and accept its consquences, when it fails. To be a teammember is to sacrifice at times ''tower'' or farm. inexchange for a greater goal in another part of the map. The chances that a **tank** will snowball his lane is very small, however the strenght of a tank is that you dont need as much resources as others, so you are able to trade away some of your resources that you could get.. to help others snowball. this game is not about reactions.. its about choices and making your enemy make a choice and making yourself make choice and making your team make a choice if you are aware of the choices that everyone could make and you control the choices, than you are a strong player. however if you dont make choices and dont learn to make choices or spot the choices that the enemy is making, or make bad choices, than you will repeat the same problem over and over. is a item the problem or a champ ? no its the choices that are being made, thats it and thats all. Mid is strong ? than i snowball my midlaner. i pick champ im comfortable with to camp midlane.. done my problem is gone. and now my enemies will have to face the wrath of a broken midlane. its all in the choice and the choice is ultimately yours. nerf or avoiding a problem wont help. as there will be new choices that will have to be made and thats the game in a nutshell.
xWhiTzZyx (EUW)
: I also play AD carry so I've been on both ends of the stick. Percentage health is still as much of a problem for a squishy champion, it doesn't matter they have less health because they are still losing the same percentage of it. if a champion for arguments sake deals 10% target maximum health damage hes still (not taking into account armour but theres a lot of armour shred in the game lot of champions that build it) going to kill a carry or a tank with 4k health in 10 hits, that's how percentage damage works. does that mean percentage health damage is a counter to everyone?
Having played Jungle and support, i can personally tell you that other ''roles'' are the ones that carry their ad carry, if that makes sense. Adc do not solo carry at all, infact usually the problem lies within the botlane either being camped by a midlaner/Jungler or the Support difference in skill is massive. if the botlane is strong, it usually means its too late and one team was more active within that region than another.. also means that prevention is better than cure. if you choose to not snowball your botlane and let theirs snowball to the point that they execute you easily and have the confidence to do so.. than you have to accept that it is related to a choice you made. 1. choose to Snowball toplane harder than what botlane can snowball 2. choose to Snowball botlane and ''keep'' the enemy adc weak, while making your adc a headace for the enemy. be aware and appreciate that you have a botlane as well, and its like chess.. both teams have a queen on the board.. so how you setup your own pawns is your own choice. so according to you the ''Queen'' is OP, however you also possess a queen on your team. the enemy has a weapon and you have the exact same weapon on your team.. its question of who has the better ''setup'' or aka team... and it starts with the choices that you make. There is only a ''smaller'' percentage of games that can be attributed to the pure ''solo'' skill of the adc vs the other adc. because No matter how Botlane performs, there is always ''outside'' interference. if your problem is that adc's scale to destroy you, than you have choices. 1. you choose to have your botlane win by ''tping'' and snowballing their lane and hence forcing the enemy to suffer, the botlane scaling 2. you choose to snowball toplane and ignore botlane and the enemy walks into your botlane and snowballs them. 3. you hope that your team chooses to do something and snowball botlane for you. you have to remember this is a team game, and ''ad Carry'' means that he is carrying AD, AKA killer. If your ADC is doing fine than you as a tank have a ''Backline'' to rely on. if you as a tank have no backline and theirs is stronger than you have ''nothing'' to tank for, if that makes sense. to give a another example, a support has nothing to support, if his entire team is dead. do you have a backline to rely on ? or does the enemy have one ? you have 2 choices 1. you could choose to ask the question that the ''rules'' have to be changed in order to favor your playstyle. 2. you choose to change your playstyle regarding to what is ''strong'' within your team and the enemy team. Tommorow Midlane might become strong ? how will you react to that change as a toplaner tank ? will you want midlane nerfed ? AFter tommorow Jungle is strong ? will choose to play around your Jungler and ''be annoying'' to enemy jungler. Aka choose to adapt within a strategy game that has musical chairs, or choose to stagnate
Renold (EUNE)
: JGL Less experience then other lanes??!!
wasted ganks.. not taxing.. not clearing your own jungle properly.. not taking enemy jungle camps. etc etc. you could choose to see it as a problem with jungle xp. or you could choose to review your own game and improve. and players definitly improve faster by reviewing, their own pathing and comparing with high level Junglers on twitch.tv etc its player choice really to blame or to improve.
Mita3003 (EUNE)
: Normals matchmaking
Rank MMR Normal MMR are seperate. you could choose to win your games and raise your normal MMR to your Rank MMR or you could choose to just leave your normal mmr at a lower level than your rank mmr and suffer from it. its really up to you
xWhiTzZyx (EUW)
: Welcome to the League of if it's NOT broken fix it until it is!!
reading your post, i assumed that you feel that ''%health items'' are broken. or champions that possess ''%health damage in their kit'' to be broken. And thats something i can personally understand, However, there are alot of people out there that would consider tanks to be ''broken'' as it counters them in some way too. and you should consider that some champions or items are able to ''counter'' tanks and make them feel weak. Just like some items and champions make other roles weak or strong. Many champions have hard counters and the magic and strategy of things is drafting or coming up with solutions to play around it. basically you have choice **You choose to have a game that includes 0 counter items and 0 counter champion abilities.** **or you choose to have a game that is complex and includes counters to champions ''roles'' or abilities.**
Avaroch (EUNE)
: For me the worst thing is that i lose all my matches, my teams are so so so bad, they lose lanes they feed insane. Yeah, I find it not okay that new players do have access to runes like a lvl 30. We spent time and effort acquiring them and now its all for free. Its good and bad. And one more thing... I got beaten top lane by a bronze 4 poppy with the new runes, I farmed better than that player but those runes were so op I couldn't do anything. Don't get me wrong, if the player is better than me kudos to him, but the runes are very broken. That's all I have to say.
maybe u werent better than him, besides the runes. Just thinking.
: The average player is wealthy enough to pay 10$ for a meal at McDonalds without even thinking about it. You're really gonna tell me, that this average player cannot afford to use the same money on a bit of RP? Hell, knowing what's in McDoofus foodstuff, it might even be beneficial to ones health to do so :D
so in short they must buy RP compulsory ? than they should remove the ''free'' game tag.
: On the plus side, this makes it even more painful for toxic clownfaces when they lose their account ;-)
the new accounts earn more BE than the old accounts. What it does hurt is just, the average player that is grinding his ass out.
: Well, you are match with players of about the same skill as you. If everyone in your game is a noob, what does that say about you?
thats actually flawed. you could be carrying them and winning despite their worst performance. your argument would assume that players carrying their ''flawed'' teammates doesnt exist. despite the fact that many smurfs and others carry teams on a regular basis, regardless of their teams ''difficulties'' and they know how to cope with poor team decisions and use it to their advantage. Does the MMR select equal players.. no it doesnt, it creates a Overall equal team MMR. There could be a player with 40% winrate, that is grouped with someone that is 70% winrate. you cant be serious to assume that they are equal. but however, on the enemy team there is also 40% winrate potato that is grouped with 70% winrate player. so the contest is how hard the 40% derps.. and how good 70% is able to creatively carry his selected potato's to the finish line.. 70% player doesnt need to be the best, but he just needs to be better than the other 70% player on the other team at carrying his own team and not tilting. the other 40% potato has to be less bad than the 40% derping potato on the enemy team. and also he has to not tilt his carries that are doing everything in their strenght to carry him. Aka he just needs to be carriable the answer is no
: I've had that, but it can actually be because of a faulty hard-drive where files, where your league is installed, get corrupted.
yes i think that just might be it
Seckrel (EUNE)
: How to jungle?
just wait for new pre-season, any advice given now on previous season wouldnt really qualify. runes will be removed, so instead just wait it out and check out the new changes and test out the new stuff that is coming tommorow or day after.
Rioter Comments
: Silver 1 99 LP
well better luck next season
Asterroth (EUW)
: Ghostcrawler the moba murderer
agreed, ghostcrawler strikes again and he strikes hard.
elin990 (EUW)
: How to beat Teemo as a Garen
Rioter Comments
xGunna1 (EUW)
: Urgot is OP specially in mid lane
there is more to midlane than just beating the enemy midlaner.
: Someone told me that Plat players are average Elo... let's do some math please :)
Plat is garbage, and thats not due to percentage, however its due to the fact that you can reach it, if u purely 1 trick a champion and have no game knowledge or teamwork or any game sense. Most plats are clueless when it comes to shotcalling or decisions, ''not intentionally'' but as result of how easy it is to reach. So from a game knowledge point of view, they are '"average'' anything below that has no game sense.
: is there any structure at all in normal games?
: Well I never actually said such a thing {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> No, I understood perfectly, you just don't like that I think you're complaining unnecessarily very subjective answer. what is necessary and what is unnecessary ? thats a matter of opinion. thats why i said earlier that you misunderstood the topic. even if it was necessary, it would technically not matter as you could imagine this scenario in anyway, you personally wish, since the whole topic is subjective. however on the flipside. i dont really mind you doing so, since im being subjective aswell in a subjective topic. since its a forum, its assumed that you would writing your own opinion, and assuming the same applies than i would be writing my opinion. once again lets ask question again. what is necessary and what is unnecessary ? thats a matter of opinion.
: Well I never actually said such a thing {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
exactly and hence i said, you misunderstood the topic
mcdkaal (EUW)
: One problem, i normally have a lead, but my team is mostly behind. And doesnt want to do drakes etc, because they are scared? I guess
u dont need to really ''start'' a objective for it to be bait. you should just play around with what you think the enemy knows. if you play too predictable than its harder to gank, but its also harder to get picks. Lets say the enemy thinks were doing drake, and sends 3 people trough jungle to drake. This now means we know where 3 guys are in the enemy team. if i warded their jungle before i started the drake.. than we might even be able to now catch them in their jungle and turn on them. thats just a example, its a bit like a baron bait. inshort you want to be unpredictable ... while at the same time keeping your opponents predictable. Lets say if your hitting a tower, usually some enemies will come to defend. that means they are now predictable. AKA using pressure to make them predictable.
mcdkaal (EUW)
: Tips for me? (Silver)
Try to kill more opponents in Jungle and catch the enemy off-guard. play alot around the element of suprise, do not rely on teamfights to win games. if you truly want to win focus on picking 1 enemy in their jungle and snowballing off that to something like baron etc. Use objectives like drake to bait enemies into bad fights, when u have a lead. Keep forcing them to fight or give you objectives etc.
: Luckily one doesn't have to be challenger to see the obvious. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
its interesting how you cant even agree that Junglers too should be respected. i guess we differ on that. since a team isnt complete without a jungler and same goes for laners. its a team effort on both sides and that means laners and junglers. that should have been obvious from this thread, but you dont seem to get it for some reason, i guess challenger is needed after all. bye
: Meh. It's a teamgame and imo you have a bad mentality. Nobody is asking you to play the game for them, you're just projecting your disappointment of some players performance onto all laners. If you just do everything you can possibly do and don't complain, that's enough to climb.
are u challenger ? dont judge others that doesnt seem like good mentality of yours too. anyways, you dont seem to understand, the topic and thats fine. its about respecting your jungler that is part of your team. and if you dont understand that he too is part of your team, than thats fine, but dont tell me than that your a team minded player.
Rioter Comments
: Why is Bjergsen still considered world class?
: What is this player doing in this game??
its natures way of removing the weak.
Wadud92 (EUW)
: Answering in how i play Leona; my main 1. In 5v5 counter engage unless I can get 3+ with an ult, when a fight breaks out its easyer for me to jump on valuable targets "in the midst of chaos there is opportunity" 2. In lane I hide in bush when not getting relic stacks. This is intentionally predictable though. If enemy not lane positions bad we get a free trade or even a kill, the next time around they will be afraid to get close to cs "the supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting " 3. Either. Being a CC machine picks are easy to get if I do a decent job with the vision game, but I've also got aoe, am a tank and have reliable CC for tf 4. Very often. I deny vision in not brush, when I walk back to lane I will go though there for reasons detailed in 2. I often run so I can turn when enemy thinks I am on the back foot "appear strong when you are weak, and weak when you are strong" 5. In ranked never. I've been practicing and having good success with Leona jungle in normals because no one expects how healthy she is after a few camps and no one expects a level 2 gank. And my Triforce Hydra build does stupid damages when playing her top, but as support never. 6. Yes, I rely on items and gold more then mechanics. Leona doesn't have hard mechanics, its more important for me to survive long enough in the middle of a fight to put down CC This is completely different for other champs though. In terms of unpredictability I like to E in with Lucian and take seemingly random trades, i max E on Zyra and rely on E plants mlre than Q plants for damage, q plants used for gold with the support item and I like to Q Flash with Alistar to not give enemy time to flash away but everything else is pretty predictable. My wards, how I take fights, how I position, the direction I move to avoid skill shots everything. The only reason I do unpredictable things with Leona is because I am confident with her and understand what I can or can't do with her. EDIT: Just noticed art of war in the title, thought I would spice things up with some quotes from Sun Tzu's Art of War
> EDIT: Just noticed art of war in the title, thought I would spice things up with some quotes from Sun Tzu's Art of War certainly a good idea, i see you already posted some nice quotes from Sun tzu, also a fan xd .. id like to add a Nice little trick i like to do, After a gank on a Lane, i pretendt to leave, but im still in the area, usually a Jungler will come to pick up the wave and ''sometimes'' my own laner is still there and alive, thats when i go for another gank on the jungler himself. alot of the times, u can pretend you left and do a scuttle and just return and usually they wont expect it.. as its back to back ganks in a short time. and their attention has gone to ''oh i survived'' or now that im alive i need to get back to farming and thats when i like to strike again xd
: > [{quoted}](name=Strategical,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OlQLvg4b,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T01:41:56.967+0000) Oh, I notice every single little thing my jungler does: -taking dragon solo. -taking herald solo to get that 1st blood turret. -giving the 3rd blue to mid. -making plays -baron calls -good smites -stealing camps -stealing dragon/baron/herald -counter ganks -performing better than the enemy jungler I myself don't mind when someone makes a mistake, but when they become cocky about it in the chat, that just ticks me off. Also i play top/jg/mid. And yes i do help my jungler when i am playing in lane, I don't take his blue when i am mid even when he wants to take it, also I steal the enemy junglers camps so my jg can look like the good jungler while they flame theirs for not being as good as mine, also I almost always say "ty, wp, gj" after a great gank, I create cc chains with my jungler (not premade), when a gank goes bad, I just ignore it and move on, when we both die stupidly, I won't flame him, I'll give him advice how to gank me and when to go in. Also yes, some Laners do see just the bad plays, and I there can't do anything about it, I can only say "gj, wp" instead of them. Also some Laners get leads from their junglers, then throw it and wonder why the jungler won't gank. Some Laners falme the jungler for not ganking pre 10 min, and then wonder why the jungler won't gank (I did this once and i said the the toxic bot that was flaming me for not ganking "change your attitude and I will gank you", and it worked) I don't expect my jungler to be some sort of god, I don't expect him to take drake solo or herald, steal camps, counter ganks etc.. I just expect the normal gank when I ping the gank is available (the enemy is on my side near the turret).
thats reasonable and i upvoted your comment. > I just expect the normal gank when I ping the gank is available (the enemy is on my side near the turret). i think alot of junglers do gank mid and bot.. if there is any lane that is ignored by alot of junglers due to meta its toplane, atleast currently. but you cant expect every Jungler to be above the skills of your division, as they are equally skilled or bad as rest of the people in your division.. its just that Junglers Faults are more visible that doesnt mean that if a Jungler is bad or makes mistake that hes the worst in the game.. Usually its a collection of problems in a team. However the nail that sticks out is hammered. > Some Laners falme the jungler for not ganking pre 10 min, and then wonder why the jungler won't gank (I did this once and i said the the toxic bot that was flaming me for not ganking "change your attitude and I will gank you", and it worked) exactly, many times when junglers dont do something it could be, because they dont see how it creates wincondition or importance of it, or the Laner is simply not cooperating with them and result they dont see a synergy. When i play Support forexample, i tell my jungler that i placed Pink at river, and that i have my Stun ready and that we can get fire drake after a gank.. things like that Lure Junglers to your lanes like its a Discount sale at a store. Asking for Jungle ganks, is a art.. you have to explain how they can win doing so. lets say Riven says im 70% winrate player, i got pink and Stun ready and we can herald than march mid.. you would be surprised how many Junglers would start camping that lane.. if you even Show a Little skill, they wont leave that lane all together and they will listen. But often people tell Junglers '' Your bad you should have helped etc'' Thats it no further reason or communcation.. Jungle GANK NOW or else..or they say, you suck compared to other jungler etc. Instead of explaining things to the jungler in terms of rewards and btw that also works better when communicating to teams overall.. like communicating whats in it for him to gank and if he does gank, can we win using your lane..and how it can be easily done.. forexample Pink is placed its got stun, shows eagerness and effort of the Laner and now Jungler feels like hey ! he put in a effort and i might put in a effort too. Forexample a twist of Fate mid laner that tells his jungler..Gank my lane, got pink..after ill head bot with you for 4 Man gank, i got ult. Believe me IM camping his lane coz that guys got a plan and if he needs CC its on the way. he didnt tell me just to gank or do something, he also told me how to personally Profit from it.. and possible Snowball as well.. aka win/win communication.
: > [{quoted}](name=Strategical,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OlQLvg4b,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-18T01:23:13.445+0000) > > hmm.. seem like a really friendly laner.. this is so encouraging, and such a positive summoner statement. > almost encouraged a jungler to Hop infront of the fire for you. > > Maybe the Guy didnt see you.. maybe he made a mistake ? you know like humans. > Do you know how many times junglers, get killed in their own jungle without their team responding. > if Junglers were to threaten to int for every mistake than games would be all finished in seconds. > > thats not the way to go about things. Oh no..... I had no problem he made a mistake, i have a problem that he went "hurr durr always the junglers fault". I never flame nor did flame him for that.
so basically your saying that, he didnt feel like its his fault and as result you want to Int ? I mean how many times Laners, do a Question mark ping on junglers ? and feel like a mistake is not their fault. thats like a daily thing. **here is a Odd idea.. Jungler shouldnt be in situation getting caught.. nor should you ? thats even better than help.. prevention is better than cure.** its very easy to view everything as your teams fault, or others fault or mistakes. Usually it takes 2 to tango. Its just more obvious when Blitz misses a Hook and jungling is the same thing, because your always visible, so yeah, you will notice he failed a Gank.. but its harder for laners to spot their mistakes. Hence its Jungler usually taking the fall as hes moving around the map and in contact with all laners. Just imagine everyone is equally bad ? but one player is in contact with everyone and his mistakes cannot be hidden as easily as it is done within others lanes.. thats Jungle hence they do get most of the blame as, when they fail its everyone that sees it. Do you notice anything positive your jungler does ?
: A personal f you to these type of junglers
> If you do this to me 1 more time, this would be the first time I int in league hmm.. seem like a really friendly laner.. this is so encouraging, and such a positive summoner statement. almost encouraged a jungler to Hop infront of the fire for you. Maybe the Guy didnt see you.. maybe he made a mistake ? you know like humans. Do you know how many times junglers, get killed in their own jungle without their team responding. if Junglers were to threaten to int for every mistake than games would be all finished in seconds. thats not the way to go about things.
Rioter Comments
: Ik don't think they throw harder than silvers. It just get exploited more if they make a silver mistake so it's much more noticeable. Than in silver where they have no idea the mistake is even happening in the first place.
good point coolknight. but its also that plat players tend to be like ''diva's'' and how the games usually go is that first to mentally break is the team that losses. Midlaner goes 0-2 and thats possible surrender or afk incoming. Its very rare for a plat team to actually hope to scale into the late game, or brush aside a mistake and keep playing.. its usually just a mental breakdown and gg.
Renold (EUNE)
: Plat elo shouldnt exist at all
agreed, plat is so toxic, it actually drains all the happiness out of the game. Plat is the Tiltlord division of league. if in doubt ? /Muteall is your friend and most trusted tool in plat. you gotta accept that some games, plat players will just surrender for losing their lane. not much you can personally do about it.
: Dude you can give Riven 3 kills lead over pantheon and she will still loose once he gets single lethality item. Its not junglers job to camp all lanes constantly but that doesnt mean that he is done after 1 gank. This is how most junglers play jungle. They pick kha zix and they camp enemy with worst mobility, they get 16 kills on Lux and then they re full of themselves when Riven asks for another gank. And tell me that Im wrong.
Lets take an example riven is fed now after gaining a **Large** lead from her Jungle. Lets take your scenario you mentioned, earlier. > Dude you can give Riven 3 kills lead over pantheon and she will still loose once he gets single lethality item. so your telling me that, no matter what riven will not roam or make any plays on the map, but also will lose in lane with a lead, and sit there in a bad situation and maybe make it worse by not warding and overextending, instead of being proactive and using her lead by fighting people she can ''aka'' roaming and killing targets that she can kill.. okay thats fine. So this riven according to you will lose no matter what ? and will not achieve anything on the map or lane.. even with large amount of ganks. > they re full of themselves when Riven asks for another gank ok so riven asks for a gank, and doesnt know what to do with a gank, except sit in a lane and lose with it. maybe riven should learn how to play in a bad matchup and roam ? because shes not going to carry either way as she doesnt know the basics of playing from behind in a lane. there are many ways of surviving in a bad matchup and especially if you got a lead from your jungler camping for you.. and one of its major points is using lead elsewhere. ''where you can actually outshine the opponent'' Meanwhile if the Jungler does go TOP and ganks for the riven that doesnt know how to carry... The enemy Jungler will gank either bot or Mid that has players that are more likely to carry with ''Fewer kills'' and ''fewer effort''. Riven will sit in the Lane and ''just'' lose with her lead, and the ''Jungler'' cannot permanently sit there after providing a Massive lead to a player that is not Roaming and also Losing his lane at the same time, that seems more like a guy that is ready to just give up and get executed by his enemy. So the jungler will weaken himself spending ''time'' aka money on riven and meanwhile he will risk losing botlane or midlane. so yeah overall getting a lead is easy.. but actually using mouse and keyboard and creativity to keep it and make something of it is harder. Appreciating ganks means knowing that their not free and 3 kills is alot in the sense that losing to 1 Lethality item is absurd, AKA roam if you know thats the case and it would be insane if riven died to the same lethality item 3 times making it 3-3 aka Jungler cannot control mouse and keyboard for player, so that riven has to get off the training wheel and think creative.
: > [{quoted}](name=Strategical,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=mgEaAwQ2,comment-id=000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T17:28:08.999+0000) > > your statement does not contradict the thread, its just that you misunderstood it. > > The jungler is not a ''training wheel'' aka Dont overdepend on him, hes not the mr give me a small loan of 10 million. > > Jungler should help the laner, but hes not the laners training wheel and shouldnt be expecting jungler to control your mouse and keyboard and make the laners decisions at all times. > > **Once a Jungler does his job and gives you a lead, your on your own..its time to play without the training wheel.** You are never on your own, its team game........ fsssssss you are always in it together, ALL FIVE OF YOU
> You are never on your own, its team game........ fsssssss you are always in it together, ALL FIVE OF YOU let me requote a sentence u said earlier. > its part of the team and **has to play his (or her) role in that team.** your on your own and have to get off the training wheel, when you need to play your ''role'' in the team and protect ''your lead''** .. nobody can control other people's keyboards and mouse and do role for someone else.. so blaming your team for everything is not a way to go, everyone's got his own duty, the team can assist a player and provide them a lead, but it stops there, they cant play the game for them. the whole point of the thread is to stop being ''overneedy'' and being your own man within a team, and actually being part of a team in the real sense of the word.
: Disabling chat for good - restore piece and honor
i feel you. ....about permanent removing chat, i think it should be an option since pings is more than enough. and some people actually would prefer never having it in the first place. However there are other times that the chat actually is very useful although.. not a whole lot of times. overall im not a fan of the chat, although i have used it for shotcalling, but Pings have more than replaced it now.
Sadolm (EUW)
: Last time i checked i didnt live next to the sea so how come i smell so much SALT?
salt ''sodium chloride'' is odourless, however its alright, you dont live near the sea.
: You're expecting too much dude, you're not challenger, everyone makes mistakes.
Same can be said, the other way around of laners about junglers, thats the point of the thread. if a laner has ''over high expectations'' from junglers, they shouldnt blame him, if they cant meet their end of a bargain, even if he somehow by some miracle is able to give them all that they wish for and more. hes not there to be their ''training wheel'' he gets the laner a lead and their on their own.. once a laner + jungler get a lead, its a shared responsibility to keep it. if they overextend and blow their lead, your jungler cannot take control of your keyboard and mouse.. so basically there is no training wheel. learn to ride, and dont be overdependent. Jungler does his end of the deal, and The laner also has a part of the deal. Sounds basic ? but alot of players think that the Jungler should do just about everything for them including play their character for them, and if they fail, its the Jungler that is to blame. That style of mentality is just escapism.. if a laner doesnt ward, thats on him.. Press 4 look at map.. dont expect your jungler to be saving you 24/7 at all times day and night. Also once Jungler does help you out.. learn to be INDEPEDENT and dont cling on him and actually play the game without a training wheel.
: If you wanna climb ranks fast just learn to spoonfeed your laners as jungler.
spoonfeeding is exactly what this thread is about and its a good thing. its about laners appreciating the leads they gain ''together'' with their Junglers efforts. and once their ''spoonfed'' they need to learn to actually play on their own too at times. Jungler isn't supposed to control 5 characters, depending on him like a addict is not the point.
: mute and report flamers, easy, simple :) and unlike other offenses, you do get people banned for flaming. but as long as i'm getting downvoted for saying the jungler has duties and its part of the team and has to play his (or her) role in that team. Its just a bunch of sissies crying victimhood and attention. adcs have that too, supports have that too, top laners have that too and us midlaners have that too. But we ain't %%%%ing complaining about it every couple of weeks. Most qq threads are from junglers, not even from supports.
> but as long as i'm getting downvoted for saying the jungler has duties and its part of the team and has to play his (or her) role in that team. your statement does not contradict the thread, its just that you misunderstood it. The jungler is not a ''training wheel'' aka Dont overdepend on him, hes not the mr give me a small loan of 10 million. Jungler should help the laner, but hes not the laners training wheel and shouldnt be expecting jungler to control your mouse and keyboard and make the laners decisions at all times. **Once a Jungler does his job and gives you a lead, your on your own..its time to play without the training wheel.**
Inckblot (EUW)
: Hahaha, how so?
actually taking reasonable advice thats impressive in league. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Do you hate it as well when you lane as overpowered Riven againist pantheon and your jungler decides to camp soraka kog maw lane instead of you? And when you feed pantheon because of course you do and even go as far as asking for single gank after 15 minutes he then goes on and on about how he isnt supposed to win your lane and then he makes thread where he explains why junglers dont have to gank.
actually the thread is more about.. imagine the Jungler has ganked your lane and together with you has created a 3-0 lead over pantheon.. Now imagine riven playing without wards once the jungler leaves and easily losing that lead making it 3-3. Lots of players put more effort in asking for ganks, than they actually do with making something of it or appreciating the value gained. I do understand your point that junglers should appreciating ganking lanes.. but often feels like laners dont appreciate jungle all together and yet expect more and more investment from it. Once jungler gets a Laner a Lead.. thats it the training wheels are gone and the laner should be aware that they should protect that lead.. the jungler cant use their keyboard and mouse, at some point the jungler is no longer the training wheel on their lane.
Inckblot (EUW)
: Makes sense. Thank you for the reply. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
inckblot you restored my faith in humanity.
: Don't pick jungler if you can't handle the heat then. Orrr use that mute button.
that would be legitimizing blaming the jungler as a escape tool to not play the game, which is the whole point of the thread. A Jungler is not a escape tool for Laners to not play their own game.. if they decided to play the game than they should take some responsibility for their own actions. Just like the Jungler should do so for his own mistakes or actions, he shouldnt blame laners for it.. Same applies to laners <-- although thats seems to be simple, its somehow rarely is appreciated. Aka ''Jungler is not your training wheel..learn to lane on your own.''. so if you feel that Junglers should take the heat from their entire team, Than Laners should appreciate the fact that junglers are taking the heat from them, and value the teamwork effort called ''ganks'' and the leads they are building together.. Instead of Blindly marching to their deaths without wards and later blaming it on the scapegoat of all problems. Its a 2 Way street, Jungler will provide a lead, but than the player is on his own and there is no training wheel.. Laners gotta play, their own game and not Rely and blame jungler 24/7.. jungler can help laners. but he cannot control their mouse and play the game for laners.
xMisuto (EUW)
: tbh you guys all have it wrong... Jungle is a LANE! just not a direct one. If you are a jungler and countergank every gank the other jungler does and invades and put pressure on their jungler then every player in the game can play their matchup. So basicly it's not about helping the team it's about MATCHING THE OTHER JUNGLER! If you do this then the better players will win the lane. If you want to help assist another lane you are free to do so but thats not a must all we laners ask is that YOU COUNTER THE ENEMEY JUNGLER! As a laner you can easy surivive with 20% hp under tower. But currently you have to back cuz you will get dived! And where is our jungler famring that camp on the other side of the map not even ganking on the other side just afking. That is what is frustrating!!! So just counter and LANE AGAINST THE OTHER JUNGLER!!! do that and noone will ever cry. This post is a joke. Jungler is a lane but you all play it like supports which is useless.
thread ''Jungler is not your training wheel'' is about players that overrely on ganking, to the point as you mention they will not back with 20% hp. Lets say a Jungler together with their team has created 3 successful ganks and the laner is now 3-0 The laner will play Recklessly and easily throw it away.. however he will beg ganks like his life depends on it. but he will NOT GUARD his lead like his life depend on it. Pushes with No ward.. 10% hp hang around.. simple lack of appreciation for the ''team effort lead'' that the jungler helped achieve together with the laners.. when it all fails.. go call the jungler again.. hes ''AKA'' your support AKA training wheel and as result Some players think they dont need to play smart.. they play like their insane and any play or mistake is the junglers fault. even if its easily avoidable.. like a Single ward or learning to control waves and not Push 100% of the time to the enemy tower. **but hey the Jungler can get someone a Lead.. but hes not the ''Training wheel''.. riding the rest of the lane is up to the player himself.**
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Strategical

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