: >So even calling ff if considered toxic nowadays? Wow xD nothing more to say about that one. It absolutely is. If you want to surrender, just type /ff in chat. If your team agrees they'll vote yes. If not, you suck it up and play. Saying "ff at 15" in chat literally helps absolutely nobody and only shits on team morale. And from my experience, people who call for ff after like 10 minutes usually just sit around base and AFK if their vote doesn't go through. And players like those are literally worse than int feeders. Just play the damn game. >Saying someone likely had a bad game has no ground of evidence from you whats so ever. Where as I have plenty of evidence people were actually inting. Looking at your match history, I can't pinpoint a single game where a player looks like they're int feeding. If you think I'm wrong, you're more than welcome to PM me all this "evidence" you have. >Where have I called anyone %%%%%%ed? Are we reading different chat logs or one of us doesn't understand English that well? "StuckInAZoo: i mean the aoe radious bonobo" I'm sure you totally meant the breed of monkey and this wasn't an insult towards the player xd
> [{quoted}](name=Hide on küsh,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T21:17:21.152+0000) > If you want to surrender, just type /ff in chat. If your team agrees they'll vote yes. If not, you suck it up and play. Saying "ff at 15" in chat literally helps absolutely nobody and only shits on team morale. > And from my experience, people who call for ff after like 10 minutes usually just sit around base and AFK if their vote doesn't go through. And players like those are literally worse than int feeders. Just play the damn game. I do not know how it usually goes in your normal games, but for ranked this is as far from reality as it gets. > Looking at your match history, I can't pinpoint a single game where a player looks like they're int feeding. If you think I'm wrong, you're more than welcome to PM me all this "evidence" you have. If you can not clearly see the inters by looking at the mach history there is no point for me to continue the debate in that sense. > "StuckInAZoo: i mean the aoe radious bonobo" > > I'm sure you totally meant the breed of monkey and this wasn't an insult towards the player xd Were we not talking about calling people %%%%%%ed? Couldn't find anything to support your claim and decided to switch it up? Or maybe you want to argue that calling someone a bonobo once is as deserving of a permanent ban as calling someone %%%%%%ed?
: Holy shit yeah totally undeserved. Calling for an ff before midgame has even rolled around, calling for a report on someone "for inting" just cause he was likely having a bad game, calling players %%%%%%ed, all of that is perfectly normal and shouldn't be punished at all!
So even calling ff if considered toxic nowadays? Wow xD nothing more to say about that one. Saying someone likely had a bad game has no ground of evidence from you whats so ever. Where as I have plenty of evidence people were actually inting. Where have I called anyone %%%%%%ed? Are we reading different chat logs or one of us doesn't understand English that well?
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-20T10:42:13.175+0000) > > Why do you assume I'm talking about your case, specifically? It's pretty evident to me that you got permabanned because you went through all other punishment steps, *and still* managed not to exercise some self control. Yeah, I can see Riots idea of ''self control'' is not using chat for anything but '':)'' or ''let's go guys we can still win the game with the power of positive attitude, even though 3 people straight up inted'' > A person going through something and getting negative out of it *can* snap out of it without involving other people, and sure enough, trolls can, as well. > What you failed to do here is *not involving other people in your negativity.* Trolls snapping out of it? Yeah, after running it down mid 5 times the guy will suddenly think to himself ''damm, what I am doing is very wrong I better stop'' and that somehow stops involving other people? At this point I am not even sure if you are being serious. > I've seen so many 9x report calls in the past, and sure enough, someone is bound to follow those report calls -- nobody likes defeatists and cancer wishers alike. Yeah, I'm sure people equally dislike flamers who wish cancer to their families and people who say ''the game is over lets go next'' after 3 lanes inted. You can not be serious. > The point was to let the person decide whether to use the chat for tactical purposes, or to flame. Guess what an overwhelming majority chose to do, and did after those messages ended. I was not questioning the intention of chat restriction, I was questioning the absence of flat out chat ban. Not sure what exactly are you trying to talk about here. > So, you want to cure a symptom, not tackle the cause? Isn't that exactly what you're accusing Riot to do? Since Riot is already doing it I am simply arguing for a better way to do it. My fundamental statement in terms of symptoms and causes remains the same. > Hint: the cause is lack of self-control and of a mature way to deal with negative emotions. Yes, punishing the guy who got trolled, inted etc. 7 out of 10 games he played in ranked, while those who trolled remain untouched, for a lack for self control and maturity seems perfectly reasonable. > That's exactly *why* there are permabans in place: to prevent people from resorting to those methods, once their available chat messages run out. No matter for what reason, if a person trolls he deserves a ban. And what exactly do you think the permanent ban is preventing? Riot themselves say that ''You are welcome to create a new account'' (and of course give is more money). So they supposedly ''extremely toxic'' offender who Riot deemed unfit to be a part of the community is welcomed straight back? Oh the hypocrisy. > You can take 10 seconds or 10 years for all I care, but it's still 10 seconds when you aren't playing the game, and a whole match where you're more focused onto blaming someone for the loss rather than trying to salvage what can be salvaged. I've played on almost every server and this one seems to love playing out unwinnable games the most. And once again, I don't know how it is amongst turtles in normal games, but it does not take even a semi-skilled person 10 seconds to type 4 words. If flaming stops you from playing the game, the same can be said about any form of communication through chat. Following that logic chat should be completely removed to stop people from afking? Please.
: You're really toxic and extremely annoying holy moly
As I've said in this thread already it is sad how overly sensitive people are nowadays.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-20T10:35:05.133+0000) > > They are perfectly aware of that, and that's why they have been working for over 9 years to reduce toxicity and its impact on gameplay. Exactly, they have been working on it for **over 9 years** and the ending result is still the same - most toxic game on the market. Questionable methods of work, to say the least. > The automated system works far better than any other system in the past, boasting a 95% reform rate. Every single time I come on here, which is very rarely, I see emissaries throwing out random numbers with out actually providing any statics or evidence. Just like you are saying that there is a 95% reform rate, I can say that 95% of issued permanent bans are unjustifiable. > Your complaint is very much like somebody in the bar complaining that the police is useless because crimes still happen. Another exaggerated analogy from the handbook? > Considering *the community itself* told Riot they don't want to see flamers in their games: are you really sure that flame is an effect, and not a cause? The community has told numerous time they don't want to see trolls and inters in their games either. That problem is not being put even remotely as much emphasis on as flaming. The outcry for tackling boosting services has been there for at least a half of games life time, especially for higher elos. But hey, I can still buy myself a nice and fresh undetectable diamond account in a matter of 5 minutes with a simple google search.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Like being able to deal with the fact that their game is the most toxic one on the market. Nothing they have tried so far has worked, including the current automated ban system. I wonder how many more years will it take Riot to realise a lot more emphasis has to be put on dealing with the causes of the flame rather than the flame itself.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T02:25:18.624+0000) > > What about a "normal person" using trolls and inters as a handy excuse to flame? You keep talking about flame? Can you point out that extremely offensive flame you are talking about in the 3 chat logs provided? > Is this argument even valid? You don't know what a person is going through, to take certain decisions. You simply call them mental for doing something that upsets you. This is basically the same as me saying you do not know what a person is going through to be negative. You simply permanently ban everyone who upsets you. > In which world ganging up on somebody *isn't* abuse? Sure, the children who troll and feed should have their feelings protected. Reasonable. > Yet, it's the "offended child" that got you permabanned... I wonder if your ban would have happened even faster with 9x every game against you. Would you like it? Me getting x9 every game simply would not happen due to the simple fact the community does not consist of easily offended children exclusively. Yet. Riot is on it's way to achieving that though. > It happened in S4, and it's a very valid reason as to why only banning flamers from chatting solves absolutely nothing -- since your wish is to not have been permabanned for flaming people. Their experiment in S4 simply showed that people will always heap at chances to abuse others. And once again, there was never a time in leagues history when full on chat bans were in place. All they did in Season4 was give essentially permanent chat restrictions. If people still have 1 massage every 4min of course they have an opportunity to flame. > Muting somebody *after* the offenses have been fired doesn't magically make the verbal abuse disappear. Satisfied? > That's what the bullet wound analogy is for. The offence would never be fired in the first place if the chat ban was in place. Simple as that. > -shrugs- The stance is that rarely those you call "trolls" are actual trolls, unless they are running down mid in a pretty literal way, and even then, reporting and moving on is the best way I have to ensure I un-tilt. Can you imagine there are other ways to troll, not just literally running it down mid. Mind blowing right? > I like how you're trying to avoid admitting that while typing, you aren't doing more fundamental stuff like CSing or trading or taking objectives -- namely, *playing the game*. Once again, I do not know how it goes in your normal games, but especially in higher leagues of the ladder people can type a massage with out taking 10 years to do so. > Play the game, not the blame race. Or the "open mid" game. The ''blame race'' would not be there in the first place if chat ban was in place.
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T00:53:31.865+0000) > > Lack of self criticism? I admitted multiple times I was mildly negative. My point is that the mild negativity in a chat in a video should not result in a permanent ban. > > So I am punished for ''not handling the stress'' while people who cause the stress do not? Seems reasonable. > > And once again, outstanding how above chat logs are considered toxic nowadays. Uff. No. You are punished for not respecting the CoC. The cause is not relevant. Toxic players that triggered you are punished, too. You were banned for a continuous and cumulative bad behaviour, that include negativity in chat, giving up the game (there's a specific report option for that), and stuffs like that. You were NOT banned for a single chat, happens sometimes for hate speach and such, but was not your case. So it's pointless to judge you from a single chat.
Yeah I must admit the team who wrote Riot's CoC did very well. Anything can be interpreted as ''negative and toxic behaviour'' giving ground to systems, like the one in place, to ban people left and right, deserved or not. Trolls, not toxic players, which ''triggered'' me are being banned at absurdly lower proximity as people like me do, which is rather tragic. The fact that behaviour like the chat logs above is considered ''bad'' and ban, continuous or not, worthy in the first place is simply proves the absurdity of the censorship nowadays.
: chat ban maybe , 100% not perma in my eyes but as you have stated in the thread , the system are made for kids to troll
A well deserved chat ban, completely agreed. But yeah, sadly, the latter is the case.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
At this point it would be optimistic, to say the least, to expect anything from Riot in terms of player behaviour policies.
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-02-20T00:16:11.660+0000) > > If the intention is to create a save place for children to troll and feed in with out getting their feelings hurt for doing so, sure works perfectly. I suppose this depends by each one experience. You, for example, have a story of toxic behaviours. I don't doubt you were triggered by some players, but the fact is that you joined them into the dark side. This brought you to a ban. I saw a lot of threads like yours. The things they had in common were: 1. Total lack of self criticism 2. Showing that you can't handle the stress from this game (I know, people suck, but it's life) 3. Telling us that your behaviours depends from "toxic oversensitive kids" you can see how this work?
Lack of self criticism? I admitted multiple times I was mildly negative. My point is that the mild negativity in a chat in a video should not result in a permanent ban. So I am punished for ''not handling the stress'' while people who cause the stress do not? Seems reasonable. And once again, outstanding how above chat logs are considered toxic nowadays.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-20T00:19:03.281+0000) > > Considering that those you call "trolls" and "inters" say that they do it because they got flamed: which is the cause, and which the effect? A normal person does not suddenly become a troll, go full mental, and run it down mid because someone was negative towards them, do no be ridiculous. A troll will always be a troll and even if he sometimes will use ''getting flamed'' as a handy excuse to do what he does, it doesn't change anything. > Considering I have seen cases where people got banned after a single offense of running down mid, I beg to differ. Because you seeing a single isolated case is a valid foundation for an argument. Alright, sure. > How is it broken, when it's specifically made to prevent abuse and ganging up on single players? Now the guy who trolled and got reported for it is the one being abused? Reasonable. Having a system where a report of one offended child has same weigh as multiple reports is as absurdly broken as it can possibly be. > Completely valid, actually. Just because you wish for complete mute, doesn't mean that my argument is invalid. You saying that Riot has tried banning chat, even though that has never happened, and it has been proven ineffective is what makes your argument invalid. Not me wishing for something. > I'm pretty tired of having to explain that it's not a comparison, it's an *analogy*. I wonder if emissaries on these boards have a handbook of extreme *analogies* to use specifically to blow matters out of proportions. > Now, where were we? Ah yes, since when putting a bandaid prevents the damage? > Because I surely wouldn't report such behaviour, right? :^) And what would your ''intentional feeding'' report result in? Lets be honest here for a second it will do absolutely nothing and the troll will live on to troll another day. > Or, let's see this from the perspective of somebody who is neither the troll, nor the flamer: > > "Great, not only a troll running down mid, now we have the guy who refuses to play the game and instead wants to surrender and types instead of playing the game. This match is garbage." I like how you added ''refusing to play the game'' to flaming in order to make it seems more impactfull, nice move. I'm not sure how it goes in your normal games, because it does not seem like you play a lot of ranked games, but especially in higher elos thats as far from reality as you can get.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Yeah we can clearly see it is given for ''completely justifiable causes'' like the chat logs above.
: Working as intended.
If the intention is to create a save place for children to troll and feed in with out getting their feelings hurt for doing so, sure works perfectly.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=lX5IE3Pd,comment-id=000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-19T23:41:11.500+0000) > > Absolutely yes. Why do you think this game is know as the most toxic game in the market, and referring specifically to flame? As I've already said this game is and will remain the most toxic on the market while Riot keeps chasing after the results (flame) rather than the causes (trolls, inters, boosted accounts) which lead to the results. The game being known as the most toxic one on the market has nothing to do with singular games of matchmaking. Pretty weak argument. > And what purpose does that even have, given that multiple reports in a match don't do more than one, and people rarely stop running down mid if they get called out? So the the guy running it down mid has to be allowed to freely do so with out any consequences? Because we both know it a person will have to run down mid 20 games in a row to actually get banned for it. Multiple reports not doing more than one is simply another proof of how broken the system is, thanks for pointing it out. > Because Riot attempted that in the past, and those subjected to chat restrictions kept being offensive to their teammates, or even ran down mid when they ran out of available sentences. > Tell me, how does any of that help? Riot has attempted giving people thousands of ''chat restriction'' games, there was never a point the whole out chat ban was in place. Invalid argument. If a person starts running it down mid, sure plenty of reason to permanently ban them. However, sadly, Riot is unable (or maybe simply not putting enough emphasis on?) dealing with intentional feeders and trolls so they are going the easy rout and ban the guy who gets frustrated due to having a troll on hes team, rather than banning the troll himself. > Does applying a bandaid after you got shot prevent the bullet wound in the first place? The fact that mild negativity, which arguably isn't even negativity, in a video game is being compared to actually getting shot perfectly summarises the absurdity of Riots censorship nowadays. > Why *shouldn't* I, since I cannot prevent that from happening, but I can try to reduce the damage? Reduce the damage by getting rid of the result and letting the cause of the result live on just for another result to occur in the future? Seems like an effective way of reducing damage. And reduce the damage for whom? The poor guy who simply wanted to troll and have some fun, and maybe you know run it down mid for a bit, but got flamed for doing so? I'm sure hes feelings were very hurt and damage reduction needs to be done. Or you will argue that remaining players were affected by ''flame'' (lets not forget nothing but mild negativity has actually occurred) more than by the fact that they had to deal with having a troll run it down mid in their ranked game? Please.
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Ruin games for other people in what way? Are you going to argue that flame (even tho lets be honest we are not dealing with anything that can actually be considered flaming, rather slight negativity) ruins games? Having people running it down mid in your games that's what loses and ruins them. Not the guy calling out the person who's running down mid. Maybe in normal games where people don't care weather they win or lose flame might ruin a game for them. And even if there are some easily offended children who consider the above chat logs being so extremely offensive, how can I ruin their game if my chat is banned? Not even mentioning there is 1 single button which stops all the ''toxicity''. What do you do with a troll, inter or a boosted account in your game? Accept and move on? Seems fair and reasonable
Shiwah (EUW)
: ***
Not sure if we are reading the same comments. I have never stated that I want people to be banned for flaming, in my opinion flame does not deserve anything but a chat ban. And yeah I especially do not want people to be getting their accounts taken away for mildest negativity.
: These games from which the logs are , are the games that triggered the ban. You 100% were reported before these games more than enough time for X and Z reasons . So yeah , assuming you were negative in your last games , I can safely assume you were/are toxic.
You have absolutely no ground to assume I was toxic before these games as well. And yeah it is simply amusing that the above chat longs are considered ''toxic'' nowadays.
Smerk (EUW)
: And why isn't it working? You are clear example of perfectly working system. You was toxic, got few punishments, didn't improve your behaviour and got permabanned, system is working as intended
People getting banned for slight negativity is the example in itself of the system not working. The amount of flamers and number of banned accounts also strongly suggest the system is not working.
: not bad...games just coinflip...or you on win side or on lose side... if its a stump no need to talk, or is considered "flame". so dont talk, turn tv on lost games, split push, die doing damage to enemys, and surrender or continue doing the split push until they end... the game is pretty simple now.
Yeah, very true. Most of the games are con flips - who will get less trolls, inters or boosted accounts in their team wins.
: So you were toxic , you admit to being toxic , annnnd expect what? This ain't KR, opening mid is considered negative. {{champion:32}}
Where exactly was I toxic? I admit to being mildly negative, nowhere near close to being perma ban worthy. And yeah you are right, sadly on this server people love to play out games where there are no win conditions.
Raistlin (EUNE)
: Omg I have not played the game for like 2 years now couse of toxicity.. Its that bad?
Yeah pretty much the same. Except people get banned for even slightest negativity like it can be observed in the above chat logs, while trolls, inters and boosted accounts walk free. You may get a flamer less often now, however you are guaranteed to have a boosted account in your team at least once in every 4 games if you are above plat 3 elo.
Smerk (EUW)
: After 14 days any misbehavior, no matter how serious, will lead to permaban. And you clearly did misbehave there.
This is exactly the absurdity part. And yeah it is pretty sad that the above chat longs are even considered ''misbehaving'' nowadays. Simply proves my point of ridiculous censorship. I wonder how many years it will take them to realise this approach isn't working.
Rioter Comments
: ... so on one hand you claim this ban isn't affecting you in any way since already have a number of accounts but on the other hand there you are arguing with ppl about your ban lol. Make up your mind, will you? I don't care how you twist it around really, 'system is being flawed' blah, blah. It's just the usual drill 'I've been banned, muh justice! hurr durr durr'.
Not sure how much of the thread you actually red, but what I'm arguing about is the fairness of the IFS system. Of course that includes arguing about the ban itself since it's my core evidence.
: >Argument that it is not broken is subjective :) The system does exactly what it was built to do, and it even does it fairly well. That literally means it's _not_ broken. --- >You want to argue that game experience takes more damage from flame rather than from direct trolling and deliberate loss of games? No, that's actually not what I said at all. I said that having a troll is bad. Having a troll AND a flamer is even worse. Two wrongs don't make a right... ---- >Boo hoo its hard for us to do the right thing so we will go the easy route and simply perma bann players who get frustrated You still got this point wrong. The point was that accurately punishing trolls is difficult to do. This has NOTHING to do with your punishment. Permabanning players who flame isn't the "easy" way that results from that, it's a conscious decision, and it's the most logical one. ---- >If trolls were caught more reliably there would be far less of them resulting in far less people flaming them. I think you overestimate how many flamers only flame because of trolls. Maybe it's true for you, but the absence of trolls would hardly reduce flame. There are many reasons people flame, and it's much more common than trolling.
> [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=000400020000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-05T09:46:17.384+0000) > > The system does exactly what it was built to do, and it even does it fairly well. > That literally means it's _not_ broken. I still do not see any evidence that suggests the system actually does something fairly well. What I can see even from a brief look through the boards is that there are a bunch of people receiving bans for minor negativity or even mild rudeness. Although, considering that Riots goal is clearly to create a safe space for children to happily troll in with out getting **ANY** negativity for it, then yeah I guess you could argue the system is doing well. > No, that's actually not what I said at all. > I said that having a troll is bad. Having a troll AND a flamer is even worse. > Two wrongs don't make a right... Once again might be true for normal players, hardly true for anyone who actually wants to climb the ranked ladder. I don't know how active are you in ranked, but in case you were not aware having a troll losing your game is enough for a ''bad experience''. Having someone being negative towards the troll does not bother majority of players whats so ever since it is not what is losing the game for them. > This has NOTHING to do with your punishment. > Permabanning players who flame isn't the "easy" way that results from that, > it's a conscious decision, and it's the most logical one. This has **EVERYTHING** to do with my punishment since having trolls in 2 consecutive games was the exact reason for the chat logs which occurred. Lets not talk a bout logical decisions when it comes to Riots censorship policies. You have the only MOBA game where you can be banned for ''negative behaviour'' **THAT** easily and yet it is the most toxic game on the planet, not even just out of all MOBAs. Questionable ''logical'' decisions made by the development team of IFS, to say the least. > I think you overestimate how many flamers only flame because of trolls. > Maybe it's true for you, but the absence of trolls would hardly reduce flame. There was pretty much never a point in games history when there was an ''absence of trolls'', therefore argument that it would hardly reduce flame is simply baseless. I fully agree with banning users who use death threats, homophobia or other language that falls under Riots ''zero tolerance policy''. However banning people for mild negativity or minor rudeness towards the match itself or towards people who deliberately lose games is absurd. > There are many reasons people flame, and it's much more common than trolling. Much more common and has far less impact when it comes to the game outcome. A flamer can be silenced with a mute button, how do you silence a troll running it down mid? Just forget it and move to the next game? Seems fair, not. There are tools for players to protect themselves against flamers but there is nothing we can do to protect ourselves against trolls, intentional feeders and boosted accounts. And, sadly, Riot is not able to do anything to protect us against them either because its **hard** for them.
: The problem is with your attitude but whatever makes you happy. See you next time ^^ I'd get a 2nd account readied ahead of time if I were you. There's no way you won't reach the next ban milestone with your current behaviour.
Oh don't worry about me I've got plenty accounts to play on. The ban itself does not bother me the slightest, it's the ease Riot throws them around nowadays what does.
momrusaysae (EUNE)
: just delete the cancer game, live happy life :)
I am not willing to do that since I am a big fan of the game itself. However, sadly, the community and Riot employees who attempt to regulate that community are rather tragic. I wonder when will my patience run out.
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=00040002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T18:31:15.686+0000) > > Boo hoo its hard for us to do the right thing so we will go the easy route and simply perma bann players who get frustrated because they constantly have to deal with trolling, feeding, boosted accounts, etc. Seems totally fair. so you cannot even understand the concept of something being harder to prove than something else .?. :) > get frustrated over repeated trolling, flame again, get banned again. Do you see the pattern developing? yes ... I see a pattern and I wonder when you will notice that the only constant thing in it is you getting frustrated ... > Now take the trolls out of the equation and everyone is happy and enjoying the game. as if you and the people like you wouldn't find something else to whine e.g. StuckInAZoo: get into promos and get matched into this zoo StuckInAZoo: the good old rito classic StuckInAZoo: but yeah negative win rate d5 player lux StuckInAZoo: nothing else to say really StuckInAZoo: 1st ur not StuckInAZoo: 2nd 50% is prety damm awfull you got frustrated on your own right from the start ...
> [{quoted}](name=Skouriasmenos,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=000400020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T18:41:15.786+0000) > yes ... I see a pattern and I wonder when you will notice that the only constant thing in it is you getting frustrated ... A good highlight of ''dealing with the result rather than the cause of the result'' mentality I've already talked about. > as if you and the people like you wouldn't find something else to whine e.g. I see you have run out of counter arguments and chose to pull out the ''accuse your opponent of whining'' card :) > you got frustrated on your own right from the start ... You have played this game for how many years and still don't know the fact the the game starts in champ select? Or you chose to conveniently ignore that fact since we do not see the chat logs from champ select where my jungle Lux starts flaming and claiming that the game is already over? I also like how you conveniently overlooked the fact that I have 2 trolls on my team who started flaming in champ select and claim that ''I got frustrated on my own''.
: Yeah, you keep doing that. Come back when you get a perma.
Keep questioning the system? And get a perma for that? Alright buddy
: Say whatever you want, it's not up to you to decide who deserves a ban or not or what ethics are involved in the decision making, you can have your opinion sure but you're obviously not an authority on the matter so you might as well stop talking as if you were.
Have I ever claimed to be the one to make decisions or have the authority to be the one deciding? Or you want to tell me high overlords of Riot are flawless and every system they put in place is flawless and can not be questioned what so ever? Please
: Yeah.. you say suggest I say harassment. The circumstances do not even matter (proof is that you got sanctioned). Since they did flame and troll everyone would've reported them anyways.
You are a highlight of how accepted the ridiculous absurd censorship is. Saying that a call for a report for someone who obviously deserves is somehow considered harassment towards them is just as ridiculous and absurd as saying that a victim of crime or other misconduct, that is essentially me in this situation, can not ask for a trial or investigation, which is a report in this situation, for the offender.
: >I have not claimed that there was a technical mistake in the system Not directly, but if that 14-day ban had hit you without having previous CRs, the system wouldn've made a mistake. That detail was missing at first. >the system itself is flawed to the point of being pretty much broken. That seems like a very subjective statement, you are the one negatively affected by this after all. Reform rates and the decrease in toxicity compared to a few years ago indicate that this system is the best one we ever had. Is it perfect? **Of course not!** No system is, but it's far from "broken". --- > If you have 2 people deliberately trolling and feeding in your game you can be positive all you want, the ''power of friendship'' wont come to the rescue and win you the game. It's still going to be a lot more useful than flaming. What people seem to forget is that other players are exposed to their toxicity just as well, not just the ones targeted. This isn't about the trolls your flame, it's about the innocent teammates who get a flamer **in addition** to a troll... That's a bad experience! ---- Riot doesn't tolerate inting or trolling, it's simply a lot harder to accurately punish these players. This is a completely different argument though. Even if trolls were caught more reliable, you'd still get banned for flaming them. It doesn't change your situation.
> [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=0004000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T17:58:20.284+0000) > > That seems like a very subjective statement, you are the one negatively affected by this after all. Reform rates and the decrease in toxicity compared to a few years ago indicate that this system is the best one we ever had. It is easy to claim that the statement is subjective when its made by the defending side. And of course following it up with the classic ''our statistics suggest that'' (by the way with out actually ever providing the statistics themselves) always works well as a counter argument. Obviously the amount toxicity decreases when you drop perma ban left and right, I must admit we have moved past getting wished ca*cer to your whole family instead of hello every single game, great success indeed. But there is a point where the censorship has to be capped and banning people for even slightest negativity or rudeness far exceeds that point. > Is it perfect? > **Of course not!** No system is, but it's far from "broken". Argument that it is not broken is subjective :) > It's still going to be a lot more useful than flaming. > What people seem to forget is that other players are exposed to their toxicity just as well, not just the ones targeted. > > This isn't about the trolls your flame, it's about the innocent teammates who get a flamer **in addition** to a troll... That's a bad experience! You want to argue that game experience takes more damage from flame rather than from direct trolling and deliberate loss of games? May be the case for players who prefer normal games, although quiet a wishful thinking when it comes to any player who actually wants to climb the ranked ladder. > Riot doesn't tolerate inting or trolling, it's simply a lot harder to accurately punish these players. This is a completely different argument though. Boo hoo its hard for us to do the right thing so we will go the easy route and simply perma bann players who get frustrated because they constantly have to deal with trolling, feeding, boosted accounts, etc. Seems totally fair. > Even if trolls were caught more reliable, you'd still get banned for flaming them. > It doesn't change your situation. If trolls were caught more reliably there would be far less of them resulting in far less people flaming them. What you clearly overlooked is the fact that both the chat logs were from 2 consecutive games where upon entering my promos I was trolled 2 games in row, thus the such ''extreme toxicity'' that justifies a 2 week ban (Kappa just in case) occurred. Having less trolls in the game would drastically decrease the chances of having to deal with repeated trolling in the short period of time, hence, once again, drastically decrease the amount of flame. Saying that having less trolls wont help me, lets use me as an example of a general player here, is simply wrong. Because now, after the ban, the following will occur: I will make a new account, encounter repeated trolling in game **again** (because I can bet a player who decided the game is lost in champ select and went Lux jungle or the player who basically ran it down mid on Twitch in the second game walked free from our encounter), get frustrated over repeated trolling, flame again, get banned again. Do you see the pattern developing? Now take the trolls out of the equation and everyone is happy and enjoying the game. Take the flamer out of the equation - the trolls will live on to troll another day and another flamer will simply take the place of the previously banned one.
: Oh I see, you had Chat Restrictions before, I might've misunderstood that. Of course the policies themselves are debateable, but this means your case is at least **in line** with all of them, meaning this wasn't a mistake by the system. --- The system is more nuanced than a simple blacklist of words. Your chatlogs are actually great proof of that. You didn't use any "bad words", but you were honestly pretty negative and rude. --- What many people get wrong, or intentionally portrait this way, is that toxicity is always "offensive". People specifically use this language to dismiss everyone who dislikes their behavior as a snowflake or SJW. And I'm afraid you're a little guilty of this too. --- I don't know if you drive or not, but you can probably relate to the feeling you get when other people in traffic cut you off, don't use their indicator, swerve through the lane while they are on their phones... Do they offend you? No, but you'd still very much like those guys to be off the road, because they are being quite inconsiderate and make driving a little more inconvenient. That's how I see flaming. I don't care if someone insults me, but they are still impacting the game by making it less enjoyable and pretty hard to win, so I'd also like them to get off the road.
> [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=00040002000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T17:11:26.459+0000) > Of course the policies themselves are debateable, but this means your case is at least > **in line** with all of them, meaning this wasn't a mistake by the system. I have not claimed that there was a technical mistake in the system, my statement is that the system itself is flawed to the point of being pretty much broken. > The system is more nuanced than a simple blacklist of words. > Your chatlogs are actually great proof of that. You didn't use any "bad words", > but you were honestly pretty negative and rude. Further proves my point of absurd censorship. I suggest a new line in terms of use for Riot - how about we start banning people for not using the proper etiquette when playing an online game? Seems fairly in line with ''you can not be rude or negative towards people in the game who troll and deliberately lose games for you and other people'' policy. > I don't know if you drive or not, but you can probably relate to the feeling you get when other people in traffic cut you off, don't use their indicator, swerve through the lane while they are on their phones... > > Do they offend you? > > No, but you'd still very much like those guys to be off the road, because they are being quite inconsiderate and make driving a little more inconvenient. Well done, a perfect example, however for the wrong thing. Trolls, intentional feeders, boosted accounts, etc. are the types of players this example is for. Lets be realistic here for a second ''negative attitude'' or ''toxic behaviour'' is not what loses the games and makes ''driving a little more inconvenient'', the aforementioned types of players do. If you have 2 people deliberately trolling and feeding in your game you can be positive all you want, the ''power of friendship'' wont come to the rescue and win you the game. However, sadly, Riot prefer to remove from the ''road'' the ''drivers'' who are annoyed because of ''drivers who cut them off, etc.'' rather than the ''drivers'' who actually do all the things which cause the annoyance.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: Did u get permaban or 14days or?
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=00010000000400010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T16:02:17.994+0000) > > You would fit in great in Riots IFS development team, at least ideologically, were stating obvious facts and not wanting to waste my time and the time of 8 players who are being trolled is somehow considered whining. cool ... now tell us where **you** would fit with a chat log full of whinning even from the first minute ... self-reflect a bit, use that judgemental talent on yourself and tell us your opinion :) you seem to think that saying that I'd fit in a development team is an insult ... that does say a lot about you and explains your constant whining on some level ...
> [{quoted}](name=Skouriasmenos,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=000100000004000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T16:18:35.119+0000) > > you seem to think that saying that I'd fit in a development team is an insult Simply shows the need people like you have to be offended by everything and find how they were insulted even if they were not :) - This actually summarises the level of Riots censorship nowadays pretty well I myself would fit in with people who are not easily offended by mild negativity, which is not even directed towards them.
: > ''We understand that a player can have a bad day, it's the repeated offence that gets punished'' That statement still stands, and doesn't necessarily contradict my statement. This is the general rule, and of course it's true that there is a certain tolerance for "bad days". However, no bad day is an excuse for the extreme toxicity I mentioned! The behavior I'm talking about is called "zero tolerance behavior" for a reason, it means that the general rule does not apply! ---- Your chatlog, while pretty toxic, doesn't seem to contain anything that would fall under the zero tolerance policy. To get this right, you haven't received any Chat Restrictions before this ban? If that's the case, you should contact the Support and ask why this action has been taken already.
This account was given the chat restriction for mild negativity similar to the first chat log which was initially posted. Sadly, I no longer am in possession of these chat logs (the ridiculousness of the censorship was very much present, simply didn't feel the need to bring up the topic since it was just chat restriction, thus did not make a post or screen shot the logs). Although it is rather easy to derive they did not contain the aforementioned ''extreme toxicity'' from the two chat logs posted. I agree that chat logs like the first one posted can be deserving of chat restriction, but dropping the ban hammer (and, surely, after 2 week ban is lifted, if the system will pick up on even 1 of the blacklisted words, no matter the context, this account will automatically receive the ultimate punishment) is simply absurd. This also highlights how flawed the current - 5 games chat restriction - 25 game chat restriction - 2 week ban - permanent ban - system is internally flawed resulting in a cases like this where mild negativity, which lets be honest, takes a very special snowflake to be found truly offensive, lands you in a ban pit.
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=000100000004000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T15:46:03.097+0000) > > I like how 2 short messages directed towards one single match are considered ''whining and shouting'' nowadays. Thanks for once again proving my point. Which is what .?. That you cannot even bear to play a game which doesn't go as you imagined .?. do you need to say it many times for whining to be called whining .?. Where did you hear that rule .?. look at this : > StuckInAZoo: get into promos and get matched into this zoo whinning > StuckInAZoo: the good old rito classic more whinning > StuckInAZoo: but yeah negative win rate d5 player lux StuckInAZoo: nothing else to say really StuckInAZoo: 1st ur not StuckInAZoo: 2nd 50% is prety damm awfull > StuckInAZoo: every single roam was pinged open ur eyes and react faster StuckInAZoo: ' StuckInAZoo: mued more whinning >StuckInAZoo: get me out of this cancerous game StuckInAZoo: get me out of this %%%%ing game well, you know about that > StuckInAZoo: can you win already plz now you are whinning to the opponents to finish you people off > StuckInAZoo: game was over in champ select how is it taking 30min already more whinning > Point out where exactly I ''complained'' about the 2 trolls? Or you want to prove my point one more time and argue that ''report the 2 trolls plz'' is the ban worthy complaining part? all the game you whine and you are defeatist "we lost from champ select", "look at their win ratios" and all that jazz ... you, sir, are a whiner crybaby and that is all there is to this topic.
You would fit in great in Riots IFS development team, at least ideologically, were stating obvious facts and not wanting to waste my time and the time of 8 players who are being trolled is somehow considered whining.
: They aren't put in the same category, but since you are not proving us wrong regarding the other chatlog, we simply have to assume that you did in fact display extreme toxicity.
StuckInAZoo: wtf are you doing StuckInAZoo: how do i keep getting negative win rate junglers StuckInAZoo: this is just sad StuckInAZoo: a bit? he single handedly lost my lane in 10 seconds StuckInAZoo: idk i kinda just wanna open mid StuckInAZoo: we are not winning this game StuckInAZoo: so sick of how much impact junglers have StuckInAZoo: 1 handless monkey can singlehandedly losoe the whole game if he gets jungle StuckInAZoo: so sick StuckInAZoo: cuz hes handless trash of a player StuckInAZoo: get me out of this game please StuckInAZoo: get to promos StuckInAZoo: 1st game a get lux jungle StuckInAZoo: 2nd game i get his twitch StuckInAZoo: holy shit StuckInAZoo: this is just so sicks StuckInAZoo: 1 handless ape can singlehandedly losoe the game in 5min StuckInAZoo: if he gets jungle StuckInAZoo: insane StuckInAZoo: ff 15 StuckInAZoo: are you trolling karma? StuckInAZoo: you can not be serious right now right/ StuckInAZoo: he comes mid StuckInAZoo: gives fb StuckInAZoo: double biuffs StuckInAZoo: and never returs StuckInAZoo: while i get camped by azirs premade StuckInAZoo: WTF YLU WANT ME TO SDO? StuckInAZoo: lietrally tell me StuckInAZoo: he singlehandely %%%%ed me compelatly StuckInAZoo: in 1o secons StuckInAZoo: im useless now StuckInAZoo: because of him StuckInAZoo: he literally lost the game StuckInAZoo: singlehandedly StuckInAZoo: in 5min StuckInAZoo: yeah report me sure StuckInAZoo: totally my bad StuckInAZoo: no reason to flame? StuckInAZoo: are you %%%%ing serious? StuckInAZoo: are tyou %%%%ign serious? StuckInAZoo: no reason to flame/ StuckInAZoo: i honestly wish StuckInAZoo: you get this twich StuckInAZoo: every singfe game from now on StuckInAZoo: this is as bad as it gets StuckInAZoo: there is no worse StuckInAZoo: this is my 6th avvount you damm ape StuckInAZoo: with 70% win rate StuckInAZoo: im not playing games like this StuckInAZoo: im just not StuckInAZoo: yeah i wil flame StuckInAZoo: this animal StuckInAZoo: deserves StuckInAZoo: nothing StuckInAZoo: but flame StuckInAZoo: i want to see you play with this twitch StuckInAZoo: aand ill see how positive and trying you will be StuckInAZoo: yeah im the reason we lost StuckInAZoo: keep telling urself that StuckInAZoo: trying to StuckInAZoo: int some more/ StuckInAZoo: im not sad im discusted StuckInAZoo: with this match making StuckInAZoo: disgusted* typo Here you go, the second chat log. Yes, I flamed and called the guy ape, trash etc. (As I've mentioned in this post already sad how boosted accounts go largely unnoticed and players like me and many others who are platinum and higher have to deal with them on daily basis) there is only that much trolling a simple human can handle. Do you see any death threats? Homophobia? Any other ''extreme toxicity''? Or you will argue that calling a blatantly boosted player a handles trash is the ''extremely toxic'' part? I do realise Riot wants to make League a safe sandbox for children to happily troll in, but the level of censorship is getting beyond ridiculous nowadays
: > [{quoted}](name=StuckInAZoo,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=0001000000040001,timestamp=2018-02-04T15:06:00.438+0000) > > Wanting to not waste my time for a game with 2 trolls where it is literally impossible to win is somehow considered being offended? oh and whining and shouting about was quite the mature solution by your standards, then, eh .?. > Might want to reconsider the ''point'' distribution from your end. I get a couple of trolls or total newbies every game ... why would I complain about it .?. What would I gain .?. Nothing ... I'd only damage my account and in the next game there would be two OTHER newbies or trolls waiting for me ... it is called putting points in simple logic ...
I like how 2 short messages directed towards one single match are considered ''whining and shouting'' nowadays. Thanks for once again proving my point. Point out where exactly I ''complained'' about the 2 trolls? Or you want to prove my point one more time and argue that ''report the 2 trolls plz'' is the ban worthy complaining part?
Shukr4n (EUW)
: Cancer game Reports these Zoo Just to say, would it chancedcsomething if u disnt write those?
1 - negativity towards one single match of league with 2 trolls in my team? Seems ban worthy 2 - stating that 2 players who griefed and flamed since champ select with a clear intention to loose the game on purpose should be reported? Seems totally unjust 3 - once again, negativity towards one single mach of league. Seems totally ban worthy
: >First of all since when do you get banned for ''toxic behaviour'' off of 2 games instead of 3? The system was never that plain... While players are generally presented 3 chatlogs from their recent games, those 3 games are not the only evidence the IFS collected against you. It's also possible to get banned for just one single game. Things like death-wishes, racism, homophobia etc. will grant you an instant ban. ---- Since you refuse to show us your second chatlogs, and admitted that those were toxic, it leads us to believe that those were quite a bit more "colorful" than this one, especially if you didn't have a Chat Restriction before. You just want to look at a tiny piece of the puzzle and claim that your ban was unfair. It's likely that you're just brushing the major cause for this ban aside, putting you in a better light.
> [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-04T08:25:53.850+0000) > It's also possible to get banned for just one single game. Even the Senior Emissary states that Riot contradicts their own policies, great! ''We understand that a player can have a bad day, it's the repeated offence that gets punished'' - nice one there Riot.
: i know, he was just surprised that he got banned for 2 games, when he thought he needed 3, and i just told him he can be banned even only for 1
Thanks for pointing out how Riot contradicts their own policies!
: Is not like I see at least 4-5 **unique** smurfs in a blind pick game, every game, at lower levels(< 30)... They really don't think bans have any effect, they just want the account to be banned as soon as possible. Meanwhile, bot accounts have the 'right' to exist till level 30 and beyond, so they can get the money from the time played on that account and 'other things related to that', but when a person **uses** chat in game gets banned in-game immediately, because you don't bring them any income being toxic and playing at the same time, so you have to start a new acount, unlike bot accounts that, even having over 500 reports till level 30, who cares, are **_free_**. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
To ban botted accounts? Don't be ridiculous those are **very** hard to detect and we totally **can not** find bot, boost, etc services with a simple google search. Kappa Riot prefers to deal with ''toxic people'', large portion of who are toxic simply due to the excessive amount of trolls, feeders and boosted accounts this game has throughout the whole ladder except for mid masters - challenger. As I've already mentioned in this post the game will remain forever toxic because Riot is putting a majority of their effort to deal with results rather than with the cause which yields those results.
: 1st let me clear this you don't get banned from 3 games it can be 1 game and it can be 1 really offensive word and you can get banned so you got this wrong. Also can you post the chat logs from the second game as you could of said something really bad in that game and got banned of that but your trying to hide it and make riot look bad. Ok lets assume your not and focus on these chat logs. Firstly you talked about someone winrate, most of the league majority has lower than 50% winrate unless they just play normal games and just dominate on them. Secondly going off meta is not troll unless riot releases a list of what to play in what roles and if they say they will troll fair enough. > StuckInAZoo: get me out of this cancerous game Some people will deem that as offensive > StuckInAZoo: get into promos and get matched into this zoo You basically called your teammates animals not humans Now the whole chat log will probably land you chat restriction and not 2 week ban, and as I said put the other chat log from the second game as you can easily be hiding something. And I seen some people put wrong chat logs "accidently" and people somehow discovered the real ones. Also ofc riot would use an automated ban system when millions of people spam reports so I don't think you would wanna sit and look at every case and decide what punishment they get. And the ban system is working fine some people just need to shut up and think about their behaviour, chat was not created to socialize and express your emotions it was created to communicate with your team mates to help win the game. P.S nice putting it in bug reports to not getting downvoted
First of all this is posted here due to me not even being able to post it elsewhere (I pretty never come here, just this time wanted to share how ridiculous Riots censorship has become) due to not being level 10, not really sure how this works. > [{quoted}](name=KompasNumero1,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=m4JaZAFE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-04T10:04:48.621+0000) > > 1st let me clear this you don&#x27;t get banned from 3 games it can be 1 game and it can be 1 really offensive word and you can get banned so you got this wrong. Getting banned for one game, let alone one word, contradicts Riots own policies, which yeah they often do nowadays when it comes to punishing ''toxic behaviour''. Your statement simply proves my point of how absurd the current system is.
: Implying that report calling is totally ok. Joke's on you bruh.
A suggestion to report 2 players who deliberately lost the game through trolling and flaming since champ select is somehow unjust? Alright
TheCrazyBoy (EUNE)
: Please present the all 3 chat logs ,then assume we could watch over and tell you what attitude behaviour should be changed ,i suggest you to use chat only for communicate not for express your angry or any of your thoughts , just go with ideas,present plans of action over how and what the team should focus , use chat to encourage the good players ,not use chat to flame be sarcastic express your angry there in any ways... , just breef deep , close your eyes open them again , watch your gameplay , listen music if you having an angry personality ,use mute any time someone start to take of you , keep in mind if you having a bad game you don't have to defend yourself ,riot can't ban you if you really gived your best and you didn't do something intentionally etc...
If you read the initial post you can see that I was banned based off of 2 chat logs, 2nd one provided.
: Chat Restrictions still exist, but people who are extremely toxic get hit with a 14-day ban instantly. I also noticed more 14-day bans recently, it's not because Riot stopped caring, It's because people don't realise that telling your teammates to kill themselves, or using homophobic slurs isn't a nice thing.
I like how death threats are being put in the same bracket as being ''negative'' towards one particular match. Seems like both are quiet equal and deserve the same punishment.
Mìmo (EUNE)
: I must say that I approve this ban, so many ppl flame and use insulting words and they think if they did not flame/insult **enough **for ban they should not get any or just small punishment . They are players who never use F words in game and trying survive with **this kind** of people thats why I wish more ppl get ban just for using any offending words. Its not Riot who give ban or any punishment we all choose what to write and how to act in game (in chat) so more ppl get ban better league will be (at least for me) _“You cannot control the behavior of others, but you can always choose how you respond to it.” _
And once again point out exactly **who** I ''flamed''? One single match of league itself? And that is a ban worthy offence? Alright
Shukr4n (EUW)
: I can agree with this. And iam alrwady trying to point this on board. Fact stays that u still broke rules u agreed and u get punished. Illegally fighting is not right. Because u previously agreed. U can figjt the bad system by stating your reasons inside its ruleset, othetwise there will be no difference between u and toxic trolls. So.. right perspective and right ban.
Fighting with whom? Not a single ''negative'' or ''blacklisted'' word was directed towards a player or other human. The problem is that the censorship has come to the point that typing **any** blacklisted word in **any** context is nowadays somehow considered a ban worthy offence.
Show more

StuckInAZoo

Level 47 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion