: Kalista Ult?
Could be part of a rework to her, however to make sure to balance soloQ and pro play more, I think she needs more self agency on her ult... Like a self cast, where she ults herself, but instead of the AoE knockup, does AoE slow on both where she was at cast point, AND to where she goes to. So if melee dives her she can slow them, escape and re-position to get on top of their squishies and slow them also an alternative engage.
Infernape (EUW)
: 200 + 10% of the Oathsworn's max HP.
Make sure its magic damage (give her some hybrid balance) Give HP, Armour, and AP scaling, this will fit most supports classes of warden tanks, catcher and enchantress mages; and even burst mages. However make sure that ratios is weak on AP, so suiting tanks most, and full AP mages least, for balance.
Mustamaa (EUW)
: group dynamics apply in a single game based on single game performance - even if you'd get banned by 4 players for playing bad/being toxic it could only ever escalate into an actual problem for you if you'd always play/act like that, and being banned by 4 players in a game of tens of millions of players doesn't mean a thing.
The point is, if one person is pointing out harsh facts that the majority do not like, then the majority (group identity reinforcement to deflect ego vulnerability) quite often illogically will refute these facts for a more palatable narrative. Sure it may not gain as many people's approval being that lone person, but heck who wants to be a sycophant for temporary temporal gain?
Hexa XV (EUW)
: My acc was not hacked. It is not really possible. I have other acc from season 2 and it was never ever hacked. I asked Riot what can I give them to prove that I didn't use any software. They said that I can't do anything... Lol
> [{quoted}](name=N3TNINJAH,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=TH0E96pT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-26T22:06:48.168+0000) > > THE IMAGE ON THE TOP IS TO SHOW THE HACKER IN MY ACCOUNT IN SEPTEMBER when I was out of country and never touched league since JULY 2019 ! I usually play MOSTLY Teemo and Gnar just casual !! > [{quoted}](name=Hexa XV,realm=EUW,application-id=ETj6EdvQ,discussion-id=TH0E96pT,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-27T18:37:08.302+0000) > > My acc was not hacked. It is not really possible. I have other acc from season 2 and it was never ever hacked. You are contradicting yourself here, where you hacked or not?
: Except there's no joke here. Mindnumbingly stupid isn't the same as humorous.
187Hubba (EUW)
: Veigar stun does sometimes _**stun**_ but not cancel dashes STUN so yes it is pproperly casted btw after ~300k mastery points i know...
I'm not sure exactly how many I have on him, possibly under 100k, but MR7 and I know it has a delay, and can cancel dashes/abilities (as long as they are not unstoppable), and additionally knock-backs into the fully formed event horizon also will stun. What ping are you playing on, and do you have any CRC errors / packet loss detected on your router?
DrPacheco (EUW)
: im to young to work
ask parents for a paid home chore
187Hubba (EUW)
: Veigar stun issues
His stun has a delay after initial cast and visual formation. > ACTIVE: Veigar forms a cage around the target location which materializes after a 0.5 second delay and lasts for 3 seconds, knocking down and stunning all enemies who pass through its edges for the first time.
Mustamaa (EUW)
: Ignoring summoners to prevent being teamed up with them again?
Due to social dynamics of the in-crowd needing a black sheep to give them justification in their cohesion, a hence an unjust cause to persecute a minority; you're proposed system may not be as impartial as you expect. Similar how a 3 or 4 stack group can mass report a single player all because they refuse to switch role, or do not follow up on their risky dive, of the pre-made.
: yo can I get banned for this?
Open a support ticket, and report the offensive name, this should also serve as a foundation for defense of your account if any subsequently is needed.
: yes riot, discord is super hack, it allows you to communicate with ur team8s, super chaety, also grants you speedhack, gold boost and 0 ping, u %%%%%%ed company.
Rofls... Discord... read the EULA, its practically saying "Our business model is to sell our Intellectual Property that is generated from our system by our voluntary staff" aka the User who freely agrees to provide us all this data.
Hexa XV (EUW)
: No. They not, believe me. You can't give them any proof that you didn't use any 3rd party software and they don't want to talk about it because they say that it's a secret and they can't tell me that. So the "evidence" they have is something you can't even confront and explain or anything. I didn't installed anything on my laptop for months, I had no weird softwares on my computer when they permabanned me. I even made scans after the ban to see if something was wrong - nothing. Also I played on 2 other servers and it was totally fine, I didn't got ban there. I argued with them for 1-2 months and I never received any serious answer. It was only "sorry, we can't help you". They just don't care.
How do you think your account got hacked? Do you suspect it was more on the part that it was intercepted and decrypted, so on the fault or RIot Games, or would it more likely be that your details was simple or even was willing shared, either player shared (against EULA), or fished (again User responsibility)? Did you provide all relevant player dates and IPs that were valid, to help them exclude those and see if there was a discrepancy with the claims hacked usage?
: When the hell it didnt? Also I think your the only one that did not get the original post, or dont have an idea of what ptsd is.
Yeah, I think the OP does have a decent enough grasp of it, and is using for intent of ironic black humour.
: my question was how can this player be in my game, i am not shaming her. I only described what she was doing.
As said: > [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=K2PlBizT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-27T16:10:55.780+0000) > Naming and shaming isn't allowed on the boards So sure, you can describe a players actions, and start a debate about them, but NOT if you name them. Take it they are (any of, or a combination of): 1. new to the game and do no understand the meta. 2. a DGaF player who got fill 3. a troll who is purposely lowering their MMR to reach lower ranks.
VIT Laati (EUNE)
: I'm a simple Fiddle main. I see Fiddle topics, I upvote.
I appreciate the backing, not sure that the reason gives it any value. :D Fiddle was one of the first champions that I wanted to try to jungle with, but sadly his dueling is a mixed bag, because any CC ruins his W and he then has no 1v1 potential. On subject, what is your opinion on role / runes / items for him? Do you still try to build him as full AP carry even with the so-so AP ratios?
: actually kalista is good for arurf
Mainly because she has a wicked ult, and a decent if mana costly poke tool.
: I don't exactly got why i should buy AP when i may want to have MR (Infact, i often buy {{item:3001}} as {{champion:14}} when there is significant AP damage in my team). {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Yes that is using the item for its intended role, playing as a tank with a utility team focus item.
: Base stat increases don’t really matter, remember they changed bonus % pen back into total % pen so having an item that increases your % base resistance might as well just give normal stats. Plus there’s the issue again that this would be stronger on bruisers than tanks as a lot of the have high base stats which will result in the exact same fate as cinderhulk or gargoyles stoneplate. That’s the issue with balancing tanks... any buff to their items becomes a buff to bruiser items as well, and as bruisers are already stronger than tanks it doesn’t solve anything.
I am not sure I have made myself clear how I want the item to work, I want it to scale as a % from base stats. So it does matter, that it will affect tankier champions with higher base growth more than damage orientated champions. Just to show the point and not actual real champions: Item +100% base Tank 40 +2 per level; level 1 total 80; level 11 gives 120 Squishy 30 +1 per level; level 1 total 60, level 11 total is 80 Obviously this item is more cost effective on a tank than a squishy Yes even though %pen is total stats, a %base+ item will still be more effective on a tank and have a higher gain after the %pen, than if the item was on a squishy. Using the above example with {{item:3135}} that has 40% magic pen. tank level 11 with 120 MR, leaves 72MR remaining instead of 36 MR squishy level 11 with 80 MR, leaves 48MR remaining instead of 24 MR Again the increase in MR on the tank is greater than on the squishy, so putting it as base does matter to what type of champion it goes onto. This item IS a buff to tanks, and less so to bruisers, BECAUSE True tanks have greater base stats and base growth per level. So the **true issue with balancing tank items** is they are all generalized regardless of champion class **because they all give flat increases**. However I think that because LoL is aimed at a broad demographic, its mathematics is left to be simple so that its not too difficult. Ive seen people get very confused about operation order (of addition and multiplication when used in either basic, compound or a mix thereof) in other games and perhaps they wish to avoid that here. #Thinking-Warframe Terms like which stage its implemented Base, Bonus, Total; not to mention if Penalties effects have their own order so that Gross and Net come into play instead; and finally how its calculated, Flat vs Percent giving a three dimensional array of where when how its all calculated.
: > The first three all come under zoning, "you want to get damage on a target that isn't me, I'll damage you", where the AoE Amp potentially is more effective; Sadly the eternity passive is lost on but digressing. True tanks don’t deal damage, so this point is irrelivent... like I said a % increase of nothing is still nothing. Notice how out of the 4 champions you listed as good abyssal users that get messed over by the health only 1 of them is actually a tank... zac. The rest are bruisers (and vlad who is a mage) they are part of the problem, champions who abuse tank items until the tank item gets nerfed to hell. > While the 4th point revolves around CC cool-downs, hey but the best form of CC is death right!? Burst that before he gets more than just a Q onto your back-line. But to burst that Yi you have to go within 300 units of him to get that bonus, as a tank unless you’ve engaged directly onto that yi your not going to get that close if he’s killing your back line... and if you are your 2 seconds away from death if that. > is only recommended it as he is a sustained damage tank; however since he has decent AP ratios the meta is also seeing a more AP focused into carry mage items. This is more a reflection of perhaps the Over-buff of runic to encourage AP mages, without balancing the AP burst/assassin jungler vs what use to be more utility sustain damage tanks . > Though that, in my opinion, is an issue with how over tuned the the AoE effect of Runic/Ludens is. Nope thecreason is simply how bad tank items actually are these days. The items themselves keep getting nerfed because of non tanks, and anti tank keeps getting buffs... until the point where you get no meaningful power spikes, by mid game you loose 1/4 of your stats and late game your losing 1/3 to 1/2 of them, and everyone else is doing your job better. Why play a tank that will die instantly when you can build them full ap, die just as fast, and maybe actually do something before you die. > But back on track, having a look at the range of the items: > all have 325 range. > has a 300 range on the item holder's AoE effect. > its 325 range is perfectly capable of working for these item. But you don’t need that... both zekes and sunfire gets up to 6 more damage per tick with abyssal... nobody really cares about the damage from these, zekes is for the damage your allies get which is by no means going to someone in range of you if your engaging, and sunfire is a farm tool. Ike I said 15% of no damage is still no damage. Tanks don’t want to be buffing their own damage, that’s not the point... they buy this to buff other champion’s damage.... but if your item’s aura realistically can only hit single targets at once you waste a lot of damage from AoE mages (who this item is litterally built to support, it’s for follow up wombo combos), and single target champions don’t want to hit who your realistically gonna be near then realistically it’s a bad item. > An alternative (I'm not stating this as a proposed fix, nor balanced, or even a replacement, it could be separate item entirely), could be instead of affecting enemies in range to take more damage from all magic source, to affecting (non-self) allies in range, giving them a damage boost. Still doesn’t help tanks... you’ve helped support tanks but let’s face it they are the only viable tanks at the moment... your jumping into the enemy team, if your trying to support a back line you can’t. A better idea is simply to prevent the item holder from getting benefit from the item (similar to your idea but still the same mechanic of debuffing enemies rather than buffing your allies), so enemies in range take 15% more magic damage from allied attacks, then revert the range issue. You’ve now created an item mages, assasins, and bruisers can’t abuse, while also giving tanks a good magic amp aura that engage tanks can actually use.
Yeah the revert, with caveat that its non-self allies only, would work. On a side note of tank items, perhaps % base stat MR/Armour increase on an item?
Rioter Comments
: Supp / Mid. 99% of the time solo queue. As I queue as a support, I'm always autofill protected. Mid is the most wanted role, I get mid maybe once or twice in a year.
Exactly my point though, because you are picking the least favored role as your first choice, 99.99...% you will get it.
: Don't know 'cause I've never been autofilled. Guess it'd make sense to keep the immunity until you actually finish a game with your guaranteed role.
Never been auto filled, what roles do you pick? Support is usually the least picked role, while Mid and Top are most preferred. Meaning picking Support or Fill in either selection for the most part will give you support. Though I have had 4 man lobbies where our Support gets a solo lane, fill gets jungle, and jungle gets support... Riot Logic!? I think it doesn't looks at the groups as a whole and compares, but assigns players one by one in sequence.
Mcgalakar (EUNE)
: Are you sure, that what have you written is correct? According to Support page: >Dodging doesn’t cure autofill. If you play an autofilled game, you’re immune to autofill for a while and much less likely to autofill for the near future. If you or someone else dodges during an autofilled lobby, you’re just as likely to autofill in your very next game. Reading it the other way, if you are autofill protected, even if someone dodge the lobby, you should still be autofill protected. Things are different when the game have already started: >Unfortunately, /remake will count as a game against autofill protection. This is really rare for how difficult it is to fix, so we’re not currently prioritizing it. Sorry =(
> [{quoted}](name=Mcgalakar,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=EU6HZdEO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-21T06:44:32.263+0000) > > Are you sure, that what have you written is correct? According to Support page: > > Reading it the other way, if you are autofill protected, even if someone dodge the lobby, you should still be autofill protected. Things are different when the game have already started: Yes remake canceling Auto fill does kinda makes sense, even if its may feel unfair. As you did in fact start a game with autofill protecting allowing you one of your chosen roles. However, as started, when other players dodge in lobby, Several times, and on more than one account I have had it so that I loose Auto-fill protection status and quite often get support on those ones ( when practicing usually queued as Mid with either Top for a change, or secondary ADC which is my ranked preferred role).
Rioter Comments
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: Its easy to gank low elo...But once you reach gold +you need more then luck to do a good gank especially with YI. And as i say you get "bots"players in your team 90% of the time.Thats why is hard to climb.If you dont help them they lose you lose...If you dont 1v9 you lose. Simple.I got plenty of games with real "morons"that were plat +even diamonds that didnt know shit wtf they doing.They were worst then bots and those players shouldnt even be allowed ranked.Yet is happening. As master yi you got no cc so ganking a lane especially if your laner doesnt have cc or root neither youre just %%%%ed. And if your team doesnt play well youre done for.Cuz you wont reach that 25+mins to scale. That doesnt mean yi cant win games..especially if he farms well and gets some lucky kills on the map.But that doesnt happen very often.So you struggle. I palyed yi too...i like him but his early is weak.Thats why i prefer {{champion:64}} because his early is way way better.And if you win early you won the game.Games end too fast.
Yeah I really like {{champion:64}}. Great clear, decent play making with gank providing both swift bust and clutch shields. Solo Objectives fairly early, or can fast take after successful ganks (especially if rotations and larger skirmish wins). Although his burst falls of late, going the more bruiser build {{item:1412}} {{item:3071}} into tank/utility items finish, never looses its worth. Its that playmaking utility that can work both in offensive priority engage/picks or defensive shield/peel similar to {{champion:412}} that has a huge skill gap between passable at the basics and professional beauty.
: Powerfarming till 6 is good but if you can get a gank then it helps a LOT. Nomatter what side of the map i'm starting on, both power clears lead to topside. So after you have cleared your camps, try to see if top or mid are gankable. If not, try to take top crab or reset and take the bottom crab. Laners shouldn't expect a Yi to gank before 6. So many times a lane will lose before level 6 due to greedy fights that don't involve the enemy jungler and they will cry for help in chat. Just ignore and focus on getting your bloodrazor powerspike. Anything you want me to explain just ask. I've played a ton of Yi (750k mastery points).
Totally agree, its opportunity only, and I really don't care (even as ADC main) who gets the kill, as long as Im up and my opponent is down. On a side note what isnt good is people chasing late kills so its a kill for them and no assists, while they die providing counter kill AND assists for the other team - which is a net gold swing in favor of them. As for clear pathing, I'm really a novice jungler, probably only done it under 10 times total on SR5v5. All pathing and timings are based on observation and study or other players and patch notes. Yes, that's it about farming junglers, similar to pure damage mage supports, that I personally find can be a gamble. Why I was so annoyed with the Qiyana who wasnt baiting out vlad's pool, so both tactically and HP loosing; spam pinging me, what does she expect?! I helped her shove reset once when she was low, a mini freeze once, and a counter kill. Likewise in top lane, I blast coned into the river bush and control warded it to make sure it was clear, but yas was already in the lane brush way before, and I barely got out alive in the poor 2v2 (more like 1v2 followed by another 1v2). In both cases, Is there anything I could have done better? Feedback appreciated.
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: Im sorry but...especially low elo taking drakes herald ..objectives doesnt really matter that mutch. If you wanna climb you need 1v9.Yi is good low elo cuz people have no idea how to deal with it.However if the games doesnt go 25+minutes youre done.. And in that game what cc enemy had...You can easily avoid lux q with your q and yasuo is just yasuo as usual. If you get lucky kills early sure if you dont youre out.Yi ganks are awful.When i played yi i Always ganked mostly top bcs they had cc like {{champion:57}} or {{champion:92}} {{champion:24}} .So we could easily burn flash or a kill.. Yi is weak early.If you get lucky that your team wins or play safe thats something else.NO 1V9 NO CLIMB.
While I agree that neutrals are less appreciated in low elo, its still an XP gold lead over their jungler, and yi is a farming late carry. As for lane ganking, Id only do that if there was already decent wave control / hp leads / vision. Otherwise its just not worth the risk. All lanes vision scores were half mine for the lane phase, I was not exactly deep warding, but getting it just their side of the river while taking scuttles or at their blue. Played another game of him on a smurf. Late invade from blue to red side, stealing their blue with help from bot duo, instant gank bot. Tripple buff again, full clears, Resteal blue into tripple. Snowballed my ADC before lanephase (pushing inner towers) was over with repeat visits if pathing and gank opportunity arose, he was something like 7 0 5 to my 5 1 5 on my first death. His triple kill going from 4 to 7 made it extra worth. though with a lack of grouping pushing inhib tower proved fatal as not all lanes pushed evenly, and their team 5 man death-balled. We had to concede an ocean before we grouped and closed the game.
: If you was the only one who engage then even that CC was not enough for you. Lux can miss the Q or already use it and have cooldown on it, Yasuo need time to use the knock-up and you can Q him when he start the animation to full dodge the skill and slows are nothing if you press R. And you had in team {{champion:31}}, {{champion:80}}, {{champion:246}} so all that CC was not exclusive for you.
True, but it was typical normals, very uncoordinated on three line (no ADC or traditional back-line mage, I count karma as mid-line as enchanter as follow up the front CC or peeling for the back) or even two line positioning (karma would be the only one behind our melee); let alone coordinating a flank from either I or Qiyana even considering one.
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: {{champion:11}} against cc is more then useless.1 simple cc and youre just dead.Thats why you have the q.A chance to dodge something. However {{champion:11}} early is bad.What ganks you can do.If you lose early game you lose the game.Hardly you can comeback now.Most of the games end in 20 mins so how exactly you scale?? {{champion:11}} can 1v9 ifhe reaches lategame...and enemy team doesnt have high scalling and no cc neither.Then yes you can win.Problem is reach lategame your team to play safe that never happens and hoping enemy doesnt have cc.
Doing steal into tripple buffs is easy snowball advantage, while your opposing jungle matchup usually has to resort to ganks... its a trade off I feel. Lane pressure vs objectives (scuttles/drake/herald). Easy to abuse at lower Elo, where games have less map vision/awareness, let alone jungle tracking, also they last longer; likewise easy to punish at higher Elo, with hard jungle tracking/invading shutting his farm down.
: I have a good question: where is the cc in the enemy team? If you didn't know, if you fight vs Tryndamere, Master Yi, Katarina, Draven, Darius, Fiora or Akali and you don't have cc in team then you have huge chances to lose the late. Try to play Yi when they have some cc and tell me if you survive in a teamfight.
Hard CC: Lux Root; Yasou Knock-up, and Suspend. Soft CC: slows Lux and Olaf. Ezreal was greedy on late Tri-force, despite triple AD threats. Yes, I totally agree. I was last pick or second to last so I dont think their team guessed (like people, other than nerds like myself, plan team comps in normals). When I was CC'd it was either dead, or coming out with under 100 Hp while in W, hoping to waste their time on me, or that alpha strike CD would be back.
Rioter Comments
: Except it conflicts with what tanks want to do. They initiate a fight then have 4 major jobs they can get done... continue to distrupt if they have continual AoE like zac, provide a front line to stop fighters from getting to the back line, shove the adc out of the fight, or peel assasins off their adc... The issue here is that abyssal helps with none of that... abyssal is best when you’ve got mages in your team as it buffs their damage (as later on you don’t care about your own damage, amped nothing is still nothing)... but at most you are close to only 1 champion at a time and unless the enemy team has totally messed up that’s not the same target that your burst mage should be targeting. Let’s look at 2 tanks who use abyssal the most, amumu and ornn. Amumu engages using Q and R then sticks to the front line where his W and E are most useful... this means he’s only amping magic damage against other tanks or bruisers who magic damage dealers usually can’t touch. Ornn is even worse, his initiation is ranged... at least with amumu there’s a chance you will get in range for a carry... ornn should never get that close. That’s the problem... yeah it suits tanks better being melee, but they aren’t going to be close to the right targets in order for the passive to make a difference... which means later on you’ve just got an item with no passive or active and bad stats. It’s AoE barely extends much past the champion’s model... and there are some champions who physically can’t use it because their models are bigger than the AoE.
The first three all come under zoning, "you want to get damage on a target that isn't me, I'll damage you", where the AoE Amp potentially is more effective; Sadly the eternity passive is lost on {{champion:154}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:8}}{{champion:82}} but digressing. While the 4th point revolves around CC cool-downs, hey but the best form of CC is death right!? Burst that {{champion:11}} before he gets more than just a Q onto your back-line. {{champion:32}} is only recommended it as he is a sustained damage tank; however since he has decent AP ratios the meta is also seeing a more AP focused {{item:1402}} into carry mage items. This is more a reflection of perhaps the Over-buff of runic to encourage AP mages, without balancing the AP burst/assassin jungler {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} vs what use to be more utility sustain damage tanks {{champion:32}}{{champion:79}}. Though that, in my opinion, is an issue with how over tuned the the AoE effect of Runic/Ludens is. But back on track, having a look at the range of the items: {{item:3068}}{{item:3751}}{{item:1413}} all have 325 range. {{item:3050}} has a 300 range on the item holder's AoE effect. {{item:3001}} its 325 range is perfectly capable of working for these item. Regarding Champion Abilities {{champion:32}} Despair is 300 range and I am sure many other AoE abilities (though I concede exceptions) An alternative (I'm not stating this as a proposed fix, nor balanced, or even a replacement, it could be separate item entirely), could be instead of affecting enemies in range to take more damage from all magic source, to affecting (non-self) allies in range, giving them a damage boost.
: doesn't change the fact that spectres cowl is the most garbage item in the game you don't wanna build into
I accept that you have your point of view; but stating it without backup, nor providing counter claims to the opposing view's substantiations speaks for itself.
: You would think that but that’s not what happens... mages buy it first item as an offensive item... don’t forget it amps magic damage so it is a damage item while also making them tanky which isn’t healthy in the slightest. And the reason it isn’t viable atm isn’t cause of the stats or it’s relation to RoA, it’s cause to stop mages from using it the aura got reduced to a pitiful range making it largely unusable... for it to be a viable tank item again it needs to be put in a place where mages can abuse it again... at which point it’s gettubg nerfed again. That’s the problem... there’s no place abyssal can be where mages won’t abuse it... story of their life for tank items
While I agree the large range aura meant it could be abused by range/poke mages, I think the range adjustment means it suit melee and close range abilities, predominately on tank champions. So when said champion engages, all other magic dealing allies should be group focusing. The item does also have a synergistic build with either of {{item:3068}}{{item:3751}}{{item:1413}} and/or {{item:3050}}, however the first set isn't always used by AP tanks, and Zeke's is predominantly a tank engage support, or a rare late pick on melee tops/jungle.
: what i mean with uncosteficient is when compared to other MR options. You get a 250 health and 25 MR from it. You would literally get more effective health for buying Kindlegem and ruby crystal which is the same price and ontop grants 150 more health and 10% CDR. Buying Mercs would also be a better option because of the tenacity. if you buy Negatron and ruby crystal you get more efective health and spare 80 gold. You literally don't wanna build into spectres if all other options are so much better. Spectres used to give 40 MR and 150 health at the cost of 1100 gold. It's just so overnerfed and isn't a viable option against anything other than things like Teemo poison that proc the passive constantly and ''may'' help one survive.
Im not so sure... {{item:3211}} = 1117 gold (rounded) for 250 HP and 25 MR {{item:1028}}+{{item:1057}} = 1120 gold for 150 HP and 40 MR So either 100 HP more or 15 MR more... [Diminishing returns on damage reduction](https://i.imgur.com/hT5EnfY.jpg) This literally could be swings and roundabouts... In the extreme when you're having 75MR, making 15MR a jump from about 46% to 50% damage reduction, while HP works against ALL damage sources, not just magical. But even at the point of choosing what to get on first back of say 1300g, Im sure you would have from base stats and level growth at least 35-40 MR, not even counting runes if you planned based on match-ups (including especially their jungle pick, but overall their damage composition). A lot of early trades can depend on minion agro/advantage, which is physical damage. Additionally, the so called 80 gold you saved would actually mean you have greater sustain in short trades / poke, regardless of damage type. Besides which what are you going to build that Negatron Cloak and Ruby crystal into, the whole point of this post was how bad a spot Abyssal Mask is in. This leaves options that become quite situational depending on champion: {{item:3512}} usually late pick items on desperation split pushes, or niche builds such as ingenious hunter. {{item:3193}} front-liners with HP scaling mechanics. {{item:3091}} very auto focused, or otherwise terrible. Though this is off on a tangent from the original post, {{item:3211}} can at least nicely go straight into either: {{item:3065}} great if you have innate healing skills or runes. {{item:3194}} perfect for annoying poke mages, or machine gun mages like {{champion:69}} {{champion:13}} that are sometimes played top.
: Then mages buy it again, then it gets nerfed, mages go onto their other strong items and tanks are left in a worse space than they where before. That’s the issue here, your not just buffing it for tanks your buffing it for everyone, and like always when tank items get buffs something else abuses them and they get nerfs again. Changes like this don’t change the issue
Since AM has absolutely no AP scaling it could be considered a defensive option for a pseudo battle-mage, however this item is so poor to its damage counterpart in RoA that, tanks simply pick that for the raw HP (which scales harder into more EHP when they get armour/MR from other items and base stats), on-top of the AP bonus all for cheaper. Just to be clear though, I don't think RoA is over tuned, as currently the most favored AP rush item is simply Ludens for the easy and often extra burst AoE for either trades or wave-clear.
duh7 (EUNE)
: {{item:3001}} Is better when u have more AP dmg in team. Like u said that is item for tank and with it ur team do more dmg coz aura work near u on all enemy. Look at typical AP bulid. {{item:3145}} {{item:3151}} or {{item:3100}} {{item:3089}} and {{item:3285}} + {{item:3020}} and some item of deffence like {{item:3116}} ,{{item:3040}} ,{{item:3157}} sometimes they buy {{item:3135}} when enemy have realy much MR but i dont see it now. When ur team have 3-4 AP dmg implicated is a lot hire in tf if ur dont scale to good with RoA. Typical AP assasin dont have gold for {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3165}} that is waste of gold and time.
I totally understand its identity and purpose, the point is how its not cost effective. In the case of the most common standard meta of: 1 damage AP (assassin, control, or battle mage) main carry middle lane , 1 damage AD marksman in bottom, leaves three more roles for secondary carries, tanks, or utility support styles. If you do weight heavy into AP damage, this will give the opposing team easy item picks {{item:3111}} for all, {{item:3102}} for mages, and {{item:3139}}/{{item:3156}} for AD to counter the high magic threat. Meaning that the {{item:3001}} damage amp aura is needed to offset this. The problem becomes in its range and effectiveness, you wont get it affecting all their champions all of the time, while their items will counter your teams damage profile.
: But that wouldn’t solve the issue... it wasn’t the case of RoA and abyssal being stacked together, it was mages using abyssal in general. Abyssal is a tank item but when non tanks abuse tank items it gets the tank items nerfed hence why tanks are in a bad state and why abyssal is in the state it’s in now... it was heavily nerfed because of mages.
My reply was in regards to the fact that I suggest a reworking to Abyssal Mask, in effect buffing it, giving it HP/MR or MR/dmg-Amp scaling in a similar style to Rod of Ages stacking. This is why it would additionally need to be mutually exclusive via making it a Unique Passive.
: The danger of having abyssal match RoA is that mages used to abuse the item... going Veigar or cass and rushing it for increased damage and survivability... which resulted in it getting nerfed for everyone. This is a tank only item, so it should be buffed accordingly if it’s to be buffed... right now it’s not a bad item for them but it’s niche so you often can’t validate buying it. More magic resist options needs to be introduced in order to actually give tanks options, without them getting poached by everyone else
Tank {{champion:45}} IS a think though due to his passive. But in order to make these items more balanced, assuming there was a scaling {{item:3001}} rework, I would suggest that its passive would be Unique, so hence mutually exclusive with {{item:3027}} but also so that, duplicate stacking is **not** a thing... {{champion:31}}{{item:3193}}{{item:3027}}{{item:3027}}{{item:3027}}{{item:3027}}
: All MR Items right now suck. Their build path sucks and they are all super expensive. Spirit visage is the one MR item i can see that is decent but not too good either because it builds out of spectres cowl the by far most useless uncosteficient item in the game. If they want to make MR items good they need to scale up the HP they give and buff spectres cowl by like 10-15 MR so it is actually a good buy and not a wasted subitem slot. I also think that Abyssal mask is not right for a tank item. Like I can see the concept of a tank buying this to buff his mages overall dmg and maokai and other ability tanks can buff their dmg aswell but there is like no scenario in this world where a maokai would buy this over spirit visage which synergizes so well with him. Heck the only tank i see buying this item is Ornn and that's just because his masterwork upgrade makes that item actually gold efficient af and the best MR item in the game. MR items overall need a good overhaul.
As for the efficiency of {{item:3211}}, it cost 1200 gold and the base stats are 1116.66... so 84 gold for a component passive isn't terrible. I do agree with your opinion on {{item:3001}} as its just is not cost effective as either a carry defensive option over {{item:3102}} , or as a cheap utility tank item as it cost more than {{item:3027}} and scales nowhere near as well. Yes the {{champion:516}} upgrade is nice, but that just emphasizes how situational the base version is.
Rioter Comments
: certainly true damage* that is why darius and zoe deal some true damage :P
Kalista neither does tons/tonnes nor true damage... autos+rend is like just having a 120% total AD ratio. She has predominatly only had nerfs. Only recent minor AD buff, but so did several ADC's in recent two patches.
: i mean a champion such as zoe, who cant split push/roam as good as other mid laners (such as talon or a sol) can. and all of the above pretty much
Admittedly Talon and Sol are god teir on roaming because of speed, so can use tight windows. However, Zoe has decent roam potential: Decent wave clear as can nuke the casters which gives the minion dps advantage to your minions, hence wave push potential for giving roam window. With that roam window she can: 1) deep vision around mid, preventing their roams more, and tracking jungler 2) neutral vision / scuttle control, helping your jungler get a lead and safer sidelanes 3) attempt a roam herself, which with wall bubbles can get a pick.
: its extra annoying when you are playing a midland that can't roam very well and they say 'rep mid no ss'. they should know how champions work before they call for reports
Depends on what you mean by cant roam: 1) low wave clear priority so no opportunity to roam, then SS lots 2) waveclear priority but bad gank potential, then pressure tower and/or provide river and jungle vision (their raptors for example) 3) simply loosing HP trades in a bad matchup, well that might be drafting, jungler should either help this lane if its the only weak one, or snowball a strong one.
: I actually always ping when my mid adversary leaves lane. And still I get kids saying "why u no say ss" or some sheet like that. And when I tell them I gave u ss they say "well follow then!!!". I mean, what idiots. It's not even optimal to follow everytime.
Roams are coin flips, bigger reward (kill gold to one, assist to others) and better tower pressure / neutrals if its a successful roam (3 people in bot after double kill, vs solo mid still pushing), but its at the cost of less certain outcome (loss of XP/CS from mid minions). Counter-roaming, likewise, just stacks onto that in a similar way.
ShacoOrTaco (EUNE)
: I said you can learn while playing {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
You cant play while in a queue was my point, but perhaps you are so single minded on your own point of view you cant consider others. Learning from your own mistakes in game is great, as in life some people can only learn from their own mistakes, and do not take advice or learn via observation of others mistakes and successes.
: Both of you are correct. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Wannes (EUW)
: Thx, really appreciate the input!
ShacoOrTaco (EUNE)
: You can learn stuff simply by playing. No need to watch some1 else doing something
I said while you wait in queue... {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Wannes (EUW)
: Something else at work? I don't know... But you are right. I am 51 years old, never flame, never get too excited. Love the game, no matter what. I just play my games as a Support main, do the best I can. This is my anual reward... Third time now. 3 out of 3..... ......but still stuck in Iron, yes. I can live with that.... ^^
> [{quoted}](name=Wannes,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=0rX8XOv3,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-14T17:15:24.006+0000) > I just play my games as a Support main, do the best I can. > ......but still stuck in Iron, yes. I can live with that.... ^^ As a support (and also jungle) you don't need to time CS; as such at low elo you dont need to watch minions. Watch the mini map more, ping your other lanes when people missing. if you spot their mid/jungle in river roaming for gank, ping their location with mission, ping the champion using tab menu, warning ping the lane they are going to. For you specifically, and growing on the map macro mini-game. Wards, learn deep warding to track jungler, and BUY CONTROL WARDS! Lastly for all supports, identify who is carrying, and their spike, is it mid game or late game? If you have a mid-game snow-baller, stick to them, and help them carry team-fights more. Meanwhile have a late game ADC needing time to scale, let them catch safe lanes near your towers, and push out to river. Provide them vision so they dont get flanked, warning ping them if need be. Get them to back off at river if people are missing. If you are fighting a 4v5 top and their team has no TP, get that under-farmed behind late ADC to push out a wave and take a tower elsewhere, they will catch up on XP and gold that way.
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ThunderOrigin

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