Noezholio (EUW)
: And one of those threads again. A random rant about things that aren't thought through and a person being madd because their favorite class doesn't get the same treatment in an update the other classes get. But first a few words. Mages are the class with the most options when it comes to itemization. That doesn't even change after the mid season update. Tanks aren't intended to get ga or banshees anymore, those things are made to be defensive items for other classes now and as it goes for ga, the mages had zhonyas, which is incredibly powerful, for a long time now. But now to the things you somehow messed up. The part of directly comparing Ad to Ap. Yes technocally you got ad and ao damage and thats the same however the amount of ad/ap per gold is way different. Also mages get the option to get a 35% boost to their ap but those higher values are obviously balanced by the cooldown of spells. Ad champs can use autoattacks to deal dammage all the time, mages are bound to their cooldowns. The main issue is the penetration though. In nname they are the same yes but armor pen and magic pen behave completely different. Flat penetration in both is pretty straight forward, i'll tell the main difference after the percentage pen part. The percentage pen is tricky though. Void staff reduces the mr of your target by 35%. Ad champs got two options. The black cleaver which, with the update if i'm not mistaken will pen 24% of the armor when at full stacks. A lot less And then there is the last whisper which pens, witht he update, 35% of the bonus armor. So, thats how it is but now we have to look at the stats they have to affect. Armor and Magic resistance. Every champ gets armor per level, for the lowest ones its somewhat between 20 on level 1 to ~80 on level 18. Thats the base armor. Everything added to it, runes, masteries, items, is bonus armor. Now to magic resist. Yes melee champs also get magic resist per level but now the difference: basically no ranged champ in the game gets MR per level and that includes all the adcs. And even the tanks end up with only about 50 MR at level 18. Your void staff affects this base mr so its always a good item. In the end you loweer even the 30 mr of an adc by 35% and your flat magic pen has the same effect being much more efficient with those low mr values. So yes, mages can and will definetly oneshot ad champs. When they are ranged. An ad champ however, well a last whisper doesn't really help against targets running around with little to no bonus armor while those small values basically mitigate the effect of any flat armor pen items thanks to the 80 base armor. When it comes to raw damage output and penetration ap chammps are basically always better off than ad champs. ALso they ofte have some form of cc which they can usue to kite. Now mages could definetly get a little better but honestly they aren't in such a bad spot and they also won't be in a bad spot once the mid season changes happpen. At least not as bad as you make them seem to be. Oh and yes mages havve indeed the longest range in the game, except for some utls or this stupidly long jhin w. I have to agree on the part that ad bruisers will eb quite annoyying with the changes though but as there isn't really an ap bruiser/fighter, well except for maybe sort of akali and mordekaiser, we can'T really compare these things.
Thing is- to some extend, i could agree with you. 6 item Viktor can one shot Vayne, its like it has always been. I am talking mostly component based and early to mid game based issues. You cannot honestly excuse it all with element of scaling into late game. One hexdrinker with flat mr will head on, mitigate the value on armguard. Also, i am not talking about pro play, or even idealistic technical approach. Im taking as example your average every day plat to low diamond game, were mistakes and random factors happen. In that given surounding, component benefits AD. If played even remotely decent...150 dmg Cait will take out 150 dmg Viktor. Yes- you got the other side of a coin, six item Veigar will literaly blow up a Maokai- that has never been a concern. But solid 70% of games wont reach that phase. In that 8 to 20 mins...your average support Zyra will probably offer more then your Lux. When it comes to GA. I have firm theory about it. It has a unique ability to revive, by component standpoint it must remain NEUTRAL. Why ? Because revive is the main benefit. Stat buffer is secondary. If the game is close, you buy it as 5th, 6th item to tip it a bit. If you are a fed Jax, again, revive itself is all of the benefit you need - the technically "useless" def. stats (since you are in offense), are perfect in that form, just a small bonus patter on the back. With this AD shift to the item- you can make a early bot snowball uncontrollable. Why ? Two pure damage items, both cheap + cloth armor (you can actually might stop buying tabi's) AND a revive. Get one kill on Lucian or god forbid late game hyper carry, and buy it 2nd or even 1st. You will make a something that was 55:45 in your favour, to a 70:30, because of literaly- free suicide. Mistakes will be way more free. That is extremely wrong about it.
Enzer0 (EUW)
: There are a few perks to mages that balance out, I'd reply to your balance such as this: AD damage - AP damage Armor pen - Magic pen Attack speed - _Wave Clear_ Lifesteal - ? Spellvamp Crit - _AOE Damage_ Cdr. works for both
Wave clear - is a general value, but mostly to minions. I can agree that a mage by its nature can offer more in wave control- but in direct champion confrontation attack speed has advantage. Yes- for AOE dmg., that i can completely agree. Spellvamp, my point being- is dead. There are some runes and few unique kits that utilize it. But in raw terms "i will buy bloodthirster and get my hp back" - ap doesnt have that, since will of the ancients got removed.
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: Teemo is broken
When it comes fighting Teemo, let us be real, we all hate it. What Najns suggested below is correct, with Pantheon being the safest option if you feel uneasy vs Teemo. Olaf needs balls even though he can counter, and Rumble...i love the champ, but you usually end up overpushing like a monkey, so there is a risk to it. My favourite pick, by far against him is Lissandra. Position behind minions to lower him with q and keep control of side brush with a ward so he cant safely poke you. Then all in him when you are sure. Not a single one of your abilities is afected by blind, and you can proc thunderlords easy after the blind is done,with correct spell rotation. Beside these points - his speed up is inferior to your claw for escape, so he can hardly run you down, also in build zhonyas feels good to have.
: Whoever disagrees with me is trash.
It is from behaviour like this, that people ban him. Because in his case, prejudice is 90% correct. And elo is not different in their case, from bronze to diamond. Spamming pings, blame literaly everyone for their %%%% ups, calling on the jungler and breathing "plays". If you ever played Maokai, Naut or any team oriented top laner, or even mid - get 24/7 oppressed by a Yasuo, then get a "rekt" in all chat or spammed that mastery tier all over your dead ass. If there is a small minority of players who have any sense of humility while playing them - i feel truly sorry for them. Other side (like obviously yourself) i feel completely satisfied that you feel the pain of his ban.
Rismosch (EUW)
: I used to play. But YuGiOh! is the definition of powercreep. Once you stop playing all your decks are garbage.
Ohhh yeah, stoped watching and playing probably in the period of GX. Started collecting last year again. When i saw all new rules and card types...lets just say i ended up looking like fossilized monkey from the ancient days.
: I only got as far as Synchro in yugioh 5ds. After that, XYZ and pendulum summon? {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} The first three seasons of yugioh. As in, generation 1 with yugi, gen 2 with Jaden and gen 3 with yusei where all really easy to get into as they where all connected in some way to the original generation. I mean Yugioh GX was a direct sequel to Yugioh™ :p I also found synchro to be relatively easy to pull off. Wasn't really hard at all but I have never understood XYZ or pendulum. I've tried but damn it. Too hard and too complicated. I miss the old days with Joey wheeler, Tristan, Pharao Atem(also known as Yami), Yugi and the others. Seto Kaiba is by far my favorite. "Screw the rules I have money!"
Yup..having original god cards back in the day...those glorious stares from other kids, best moments :D decent, even though i do not like it its much more straightforward then Xyz, which is literaly idiotic.
: So basically you are from the battle city time eh? I still have my deck with a badly screwed up Obelisk the tormentor. As well as a red and blue eyes. Tbh if you really wanna screw up people. Go with Six Samurai. That sh*t is broken. My friend Ludde proved that every single time he and I fought on YgoPro
Yup, pretty much battle city. Tried Synchro and Xyz..concept aint hard, but i find it boring when you literaly get the strongest monster in two turns. Miss the suspense from old days. Might try them, ty. Cubic lords also seem interesting though
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karolmo (EUW)
: Get ready for riot fanboys to downvote spam you
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Termosx (EUNE)
: Jax vs Fiora
I played this match up both ways...also won it, and lost both ways. So here are some basic observation i got from it : 1. They are both late game spliting monsters- so snowball matters way more then on some other champs. First two kill will be very important for lane Playing from the side of Jax - Vitals matter the most in short trades, try to bait lunge and hit her with w, if you are quick enough you can win short trades. - Because of crit on E, speed up, double lunge and vitals - avoid mid lenght trades completely (3,4 spells used), in these - her kit is simply superior to Jax. - When it comes to all ins, pop ult right away to mitigate some damage and wear her down. Always try to stick to the walls to prevent her from using all vitals. - About Parry vs Counterstrike - To be honest...if Fiora is very good, she will block every single one. Try to test him, your advantage - her spell reacts instantly. The delay of counterstrike gives you a chance to walk to the side a bit and control the trade. - At the end...if you feel she is too opressing, call for jungler or simply farm it out and keep even. Jax will offer more in teamfights.
: Swain rework been canceled?
: Who are best low elo champions?
my suggestion support: Soraka/Nautilus tank: Maokai/Nautilus/Poppy (very strudy,you need to learn to time w though) mage: Viktor/Lux - easy to farm with, can do decently even if behind fighter: hmm easy bruiser, tbh all of them take at least some mecahnics. I would have to say that Jax is the most basic assasin: Eve can climb you very well, you only have to learn her pathing (she loses a lot of hp in first clear) marksman : Ashe, very basic, great playmaking ability and rather selfsustainable. Sivir, thugh is basic, you will rarely get a chance to farm it up with her. Also. for those who say Yasuo, Vayne, and similar- dont listen. Many good people rot in lower elo because of those lcs wannabe players. Stick to the core champs, until you feel safe enough.
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BlueStr (EUW)
: ***
To some extend - yes. What is funny, i dont mind the damage. I have issues with possiblity. Damage alone mean nothing, combining it with broken kit , thats other story. Passive "free %%%%up", windwall for another one, and a god damn unlimited movement in lane. Thats the issue - lack of window the blow his ass off when he goes for drive through trades entire early.
: With the shift they gave on the E, they nerfed Tank Yasuo, be gratefull for the gift and stop complaining
That is kinda paradoxal, we are ought to be greatefull for champion nerfs in area..where he should never have been, That does not lower the problem close enough
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Tiichu (EUW)
: What do you consider as 'getting carried'
Of course that it has nothing to do with supports, by logic- they will SUPPORT you, so to start by excluding them. Somebody being 7/6/5, while you are 2/4/5 , is usually arogant flaming , not hard carrying, you probably had some though moments. In reality, it is when you , and maybe 2 more guys are at the state of having extremely low influence in bigger fight, due to many different aspects (being camped, outplayed hard, bad match up, or simply fucking up)...and then there is a guy who goes 12/3/3, is a primary target of the enemy team, keeps killing at least two guys per TF. Has the complete shift and holds entire momentum of the fight. He general bassis hard carrying the entire team.
: imho viktors DPS and burst along with utility should be toned down a little (like, a small CD increase on Q, come on, it's 4 seconds with no cdr)
That cost on his upgrade, toned him down more then anything else. ESPECIALLY in mid to lower elo games. Waiting for that bonus gold or diverting early build- hits hard.
: So I am a Lux main (140k mastery points) and I have to admit that Lux is f*cking strong right now. She has a hurting in-lane poke and she has her finishing combo. Q-AA-E-R-AA. But Lux has downsides too, she has no escape, but her biggest downside is the fact that she can be counterpicked by {{champion:157}} . No, really. Everytime I play against Yasuo I get shit on. I throw my abilities and - whoops - there is a wall and no single ability has hit Yasuo. Then, he throws a whirlwind on me, ults me and I am dead. Why does nobody to complain about {{champion:157}} ?
She isnt op, any champ can hurt hard if played properly. She has - like you said very clear weaknesses, which makes her perfectly balanced. She simply has good tools to provide basic stuff- nice poke and clear. On the other hand, you can still end up being useless with her, depending on your mechs. PS. No worries...even Yasuo mains bitch about Yasuo now. You know everything went down the drain when Rito admits that he is broken :D
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JakiStow (EUW)
: I often use "this is just game", so I can relate ;) Personally I really try to win, I don't take the game lightly. But still, even when I tryhard, this is indeed just a game, and losing is part of it. I think that's what most people mean when they say "it's just a game". It doesn't mean you shouldn't try hard, it means you shouldn't flame and insult and be an overall douchebag because you are losing. Yes, you are losing, yes it may not be your fault, but then what ? You cannnot win every time, so chill, defeat happens. Tentative proof: people never accuse tryharders for just tryharding, they accuse them for overreacting (flaming) for a mere game. At least that's how I see it ^^
Believe are among honorable excuses from the pattern, not the other way around :D
piggy85 (EUW)
: no vayne main tries to be this edgy
To disappoint you, sicne i started LoL i played her...maybe 10 times- got evaporated every single game {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
BlueStr (EUNE)
: ***
Not the point but...nobody can call it right or wrong- its just your personal vent in given situation. Something that shouldnt even be called in a question.
JakiStow (EUW)
: > Large amount of casual players (with zero, extremely low "drive") overflow ranked. Creating, not toxicity itself, but a general base for it, in many games. It's actually the contrary: casual players are much more chill than "driven" players, who are so driven that they can't control their emotions and will start flaming. Casual players are not the toxic ones, and playing bad is not a base for toxicity. Bad anger management and low concern for others is the base.
I have to disagree. There is a distinct difference between chill on personal character level and constantly "chill" gamewise. First one is comendable, latter one is an issue. Exemple : - Never plays ranked, plays normals (his/hers preferance) - Goes into Ranked, just to see what's the fuss about - Screws up hard If it stayed on that - there would be no acceptable reason to flame him, simply on basis that he failed. On the other hand, if he tries to implement "tryhard" , "pff it's just a game" , "flamers :)" and similar lines, driven players will react crazy (i would to). You are literaly hitting anyone serious with invisible slap by doing this. It is never about first action/fail...the basis for toxicity/ win comes after that. It depends on how you, let say, develop from previous situation. Shielding yourself with generalistic terms like "it's just a game", in these cases, is nothing more but a mere lazy excuse on how you refuse to improve in given situation. So basically, there are many casuals that hide the fact that they willingly went into tryhard mode - without trying AT ALL, with hypocritical behaviour statements.
WarlockGr (EUNE)
: yasuo needs boost
Bro...i know you are joking - but you are really close in accumulating entire community hate on your post. Beware with that :D
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Doomley (EUW)
: Well many mages and utility mages are getting a nerf next patch because they finally nerf rylai. It will be a lot cheaper but also a lot worse item.
Thats kinda sad. At least they good bother to create a second pen. item for mages - or cheap stats one. (like yoummu for ad). Ad have too big off advantage simply based off components.
Squallsy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ThunderSnow101,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=sHGiwpEP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-26T21:47:30.325+0000) > > Nope - wood 5 meh, thats fair enough, this aside, im not against a nerf to the utility mages you speak of, but i would prefer them to just be put back into the support role with a bit of change making them more fun and revitalized to make bot lane have more variety!
Jokes aside - Karma for example should be able to : speed herself up, snare you , heal of that snare, sheild herself AND be able to blow you of lane, its a bit too much. Utility mages aren't role defined too well.
Squallsy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ThunderSnow101,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=sHGiwpEP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-26T21:40:57.067+0000) > > Ahri and Xerath, as well as Ziggs are long forgotten in meta (i can play them perfectly , they will feel useless whatever i do). ok sweet, your are challenger 1?
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tortsY (EUNE)
: 1. Yes season rewards will be visible in soloq :) 2. Yes. 3. No. U get different rewards from both of them and riot said that if u reach gold in both of those u will get some extra reward :) 4. Idk. but probably when new season starts. new season start december 6th or something like that. 5. Right now both are affected by ur previous rank in dynamic :) but i dont know what will happen later :)
Thank you...this clarifies these issues alot :)
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IndigoFenix (EUNE)
: Back to Basics: Rock, Paper, Scissors style game balance in theory and practice
You said it general basis :D Howewer current state is far from that. Thing that you have forgotten, that influences this very hard - in a bad way, are items. This can influence fight in a very bad way - where kit itself, will completely prevail over good score. Example - 8/0/0 Lux gets attacked by 0/0/0 Mundo who has two items - he will charge and kill her with losing max 50% hp. So in general - if we exclude Viktor holding somehow, true mages are dead from season 3. You have them in form of secondary supports that can net a kill, or pretty much ap tanks (Ryze,Vlad), who will wait 35+ in a game to start a slugfest, sooo that makes them secondary tanks. This shifts the burst - to supports. With current meta being "burst him out before he makes and rational action". Tanks remain pretty much the same, so do classical (note that i said classical) fighters or typical top lane glass cannons (Riven,Fiora) - both classes, unless possesing regen or being helped by jungle, get eredicated by hybrid fighters. This "special" category is technicaly Riots fault. to some extend. It allowed certain champs, to abuse in built damage with combination of tankier abilities to get really good results (Ekko, Yaso, Gnar, new Reng could be also a part of this). AD carries are shifted a bit too hard to later stages, in a even fight - if they are hit with any, any sensible focus they will melt - especially immobile ones. Maybe a bit too fast. So - what you said - is a correct general meta "frame" for any MOBA, but current state of League, is in my state a bit too kit and time oriented.
: > [{quoted}](name=ThunderSnow101,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2PbtgMF2,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-18T05:22:48.284+0000) > > meaning i won't pick a side on topic > (...) > excuse to be ignorant ass ? Good one. You are bitching around in every comment.
You know..this comment cutting to make it look the way you like - completely reminds me off famous chat copy pasting in blind pick...when a 12 year old wants to convince people that he called first - even if you can simply scroll up :)
: I personally, fell in love with rengar rework! Changes to his passive and necklace is great. just there is one problem and that is: tank rengar, similar to tank ekko
I think they can make him normal, with just few nerfs - simply remove insta crit from ultimate jump. Forcing a fed Rengar to at least use 2 abilities and give someone chance to move. That would be enough
314exeexe (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ThunderSnow101,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=2PbtgMF2,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-18T00:59:39.955+0000) > They would. If you bother to explain it to them properly. You aren't above it. > Me: go to blue Ally: reported for flame So why bother explaining anything to anyone?
Right, so random unreasonable moments (which have nothing to do with current matter) that are pretty much always present..are excuse to be ignorant ass ? Good one.
: You would be correct, however I have played with this Singed in question, and i can tell you before the game he had a nice little copy-paste notice, explaining the support singed pick briefly, and also explaining what he would do during the game. If you check this video, at 4:43 you can even see a screetshot of this notice he postes (the notice looked different when i played with him as he has stopped using smite).
Honestly i watched it now...and i still remain with same opinion, but maybe...from a different angle. It is - in some case lying in face of others to get your thing. You can go for jungle Singed in first place. Picking up "support role", probably just to queue faster and have your quite a crappy thing to do. I've seen he is gold 3 from video. That could also matter. Was at that tier quite recently this year, and its almost close to being hectic as silver. You most simply swallow your "brillance" and provide that elo people still fail even basics. I could get frustration of his adc. Amount of how much you play something, or even the score - cant really justify this above. But i at least now get his angle in it.
: He did explain his pick and strategy. Pls read the other topics first.
I used the example as a general topic discussion, because people who go raging about this case, are usually those who take support yasuo , because "unfair" system didn't let them be otp. I think it is a generalist solid advice about off meta picks. When it comes to this case itself - i would admit that i am not 100% in it or know every fact. Still i dont see how it can really work that well. Something that has no reliable cc, has a really unique method of wave control, and pretty much works as a suicide pressure point that has the assigment of pulling around as much people as he can - doesnt not seem like in any matter - a support. You would need to have a perfectly coordinated self sufficient premade ADC for that.
Shiwah (EUW)
: Gotta quote Torpedo here... > [{quoted}](name=Torpedosheep,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=rEENEBOP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-17T21:12:50.918+0000) > > Greetings. > > Sorry, I did not watch the whole video cause I'm kinda busy right now, > but I just want to make sure that you guys can see the whole picture here. > > Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, > but please make sure you know all the facts before you build yours ! > > > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} > > --- > **Playing Singed Support is not a punishable offense in itself !** > > There are other factors that lead to the banning of the player. > Here is a link to an official explanation: > > [Thread]( > > I suggest you read the first comment by Riot Gromp: > > [Comment]( > > And this comment from WookieeCookie: > > [Comment]( > > Have fun reading ! This practically supports your post, with the added Riot official links. Now, if only people would bury this topic once and for all...
Glad you agree. It would seem people jump to defend these cases, probably only to find justification for their own screw ups.
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