: I’ve been trailing him in custom games and practice mode, as well as watched a lot of pbe footage and played him myself (mainly jungle). Let me break down everything I’ve found Firstly runes... conquerer is bad, he’s a burst champion not dps by the time he stacks up he has already used everything... I’ve found PTA to give more damage when combined with the empowered W. Secondly passive... Q is decent, W is the outright best, E is shit. Every time you’ve got your passive and W up you wanna use that, then Q failing that, never bother with E. Thirdly the Q... every pantheon I’ve seen charges it every time to harass in lane... this lowers damage considerably. A tap Q doesn’t get reduced by hitting minions, is more reliable to hit, has enough range to suffice (575, old pantheon Q was 600), and half’s the cooldown. Basically by tapping Q you get to do almost the exact same type of poke old pantheon was capable of. Charged Q is only good in seige situations mid to late game or as an execute, don’t bother using it anywhere else. W is the same,but the empowered W is godlike. 3 instant auto attacks means that on hit effects are pretty decent, though as a caster he is limited. Still this is what makes PTA so good, instant damage and a damage amp on the rest of the combo. E is better thought of as fiora parry... it can block any damage ability so identify what ability you want to block against your opponent and use it reactively to block it, then immediately reactivate. Every pantheon I’ve seen keeps it going the full duration and that limits damage (that clip you showed he kept it going for the full duration, where as reactivating it would have immediately killed amumu), only use it for as long as you outright need to. Ult is very similar but you’ve now gotta position where you are before the jump first... do it right and it’s increadibly difficult to dodge. The combo is empowered W, another auto after the empowered one to get your empowered ability back, tap Q, then use E to disengage and block retaliation. ___ I’m fine with people thinking he’s weak, I get to play him more... but everyone is playin him so wrong and then confused why they don’t deal damage... just using the tap Q more would make them get a massive increase in damage output.
I also tried PTA and it sucks. Why? Because even though Pantheons w makes your strike 3 times with your next auto attack it's only 150% physical damage and that sucks compared to a champion like Renekton. Pantheons w+auto makes about 120 damage lvl 1 while Renekton does 200. Both abilities stuns and Pantheons stun is easily avoidable with champs like Fiora/Vayne. You also compare his e to FIora w. When Fiora uses w she blocks from every corner, Pantheon only blocks from the front. "But Fiora can't move while she channels w", no she can't but it stuns/slows and deals a fair amount of damage. Besides from that, why don't you pick him up in a competetive setting and see how he does. As far as I can see you haven't played a single competetive game as Pantheon. If you are going to come here and comment on how good he is I'd like you to atleast have experience with him in a ranked setting.
: Pantheon went from being very easy to pretty difficult... so a drop in win rate is fully expected (even still 46% for a difficult new champion really ain’t bad). Builds are likely changing yet people are still going old pantheon, runes imo are suboptimal (I generally don’t think conquerer is good on him), and how we use the abilities needs work (every pantheon I’ve seen charges Q every time, that’s bad... tap Q 90% of the time and save the charge Q to execute people). People are also really underestimating his empowered W... generally it’s stupidly powerful if you play around that rather than the Q (PTA, electrocute, hell once I get the chance to test it I reckon HoB for 6 autos during the stun would be good). > For a comic relief I've decided to provide a twitch clip which demonstrates his E damage in a lvl 15 situation up above. His E is defencive not offensive... it’s meant to deal no damage (actually think riot should remove the damage just so people can better learn it)... idea is that you block what you want to block then cancel it to get back to hitting... keeping it going for the full duration most of the time wastes damage and you should never empower it. EDIT: don’t forget in that clip he is against an amumu, who has a passive which reduces physical damage by a flat amount... physical DoTs are pretty pathetic against him generally
It seems clear that you have not encountered Pantheon nor played him at all. Pantheon is really weak and I don't know where you get your information from please tell me how you acquire your information.
: As a top he has become weaker, his primary win condition would be to block a critical skill with his E. As a jungler however he is pretty much S tier at this point due to his spear having AOE dmg for clearing, and his ganks are as strong as they were before rework.
https://www.op.gg/champion/pantheon/statistics/jungle He isn't quite S tier in the jungle according to op.gg
Rioter Comments
: > Tahm Kench doesn't fall off after early game with an exeption. If toplane gets camped by your jungler he will fall off early and wont be able to 1v1 enemy toplaner after 4 deaths, this is a rare case it never happens since meta is better bot wins. Therefore you as opposing toplaner will be stuck cs'ing/roaming but u wont ever be able to snowball against him. He falls off... not everything is a 1v1 Remember he’s getting damage through health, while that’s nice for early to mid game it’s not as effective as ad or ap later on. So after a while your basically a more damaging tank, while other bruisers are still much more damaging while still being tanky He’s also only really a melee counter, not that useful vs a ranged champion. So as soon as laning phase is over he’s kinda screwed he doesn’t have wave clear so his split push is not very good, has no teamfight tools so he can’t be useful there, and he’s too easy to peel. So once laning phase is over there’s not much he gets to do outside of usual support tahm things. So he falls off hard outside of lane... if you want further proof his win rate drops to 49% after 25 mins, and drops further to 47% after 30. That shows how heavily he drops off > Besides I have won challenger games against Tahm Kench, so u don't have to tell me how to play the game, I'm fine, thank you. Then stop complaining if you are fine at winning vs tahm in challenger (honestly not a big achievement like I said last 25 mins and your chances skyrocket)
So the essence of your post is that I shouldn't complain if something is wrong with the game? You literally contradict what the gameplay boards are made for. 4 words Get the %%%% out.
Rioter Comments
: Your opening post doesn't either then if you want to argue this way. It does simply lack ground if you have nothing to back it up and your lost games as these supposedly too strong champions doesn't really help your case.
Listen buddy, check Karma winrate for instance. My profile isn't for proof or credibility hence I didn't link it in the post.
: > First of, stop speaking like you are some kind of front figure for the community - because u are not. I don’t need to be a front figure for the community, if you payed attention you’d get told the exact same thing. > Secondly, yes Tahm indeed deserves to die because there is literally 2 counterpicks against Tahm Kench. It's not like I'm the only one who can't play against him, so quit trying to project it on me. > I speak for the community because I know people hate Tahm Kench. I talk with a lot of people, I play against Tahm Kench quite a bunch and hell, the Tahm players even say it themselves. Like I said tahm falls off after early game, top lane tahm is obnoxious early but once early game ends he contributes nothing, falling back into his support role. There are so many picks that are obnoxious early and are actually useful later on, tahm ain’t that bad, just new And the community complains about anything they can’t automatically beat, the vocal side of the community would rather complain than learn... also remember that it’s a minority that feel that way and most disagree (notice you are overall downvoted showing the board communtiy disagrees). And no he doesn’t deserve to die... even in the case where tahm top was toxic and needed to be removed you’ve completely forgotten that he’s a support champion and trying to nerf him top will likely kill him in a role that hasn’t done anything wrong. There is no point in killing off support tahm for something top lane tahm has done > I wont get personal towards you, just quit thinking you're superior and I have some kind of mental problem for not being able to play the game against Tahm because almost NOBODY beats that champ 1v1 in toplane. Never said I was superior... there’s just more to this game than a 1v1 even for top lane... if your playing just for a 1v1 you ain’t playing the right game.
Tahm Kench doesn't fall off after early game with an exeption. If toplane gets camped by your jungler he will fall off early and wont be able to 1v1 enemy toplaner after 4 deaths, this is a rare case it never happens since meta is better bot wins. Therefore you as opposing toplaner will be stuck cs'ing/roaming but u wont ever be able to snowball against him. Besides I have won challenger games against Tahm Kench, so u don't have to tell me how to play the game, I'm fine, thank you.
: Firstly we’ve had plenty of toxic champions go top lane... if you think tahm is the worst you’ve obviously not been playing for very long Secondly tahm falls off heavily mid to late game, so he’s obnoxious early but there’s plenty of lane bullies that can do what he can and still be useful later on. Thirdly don’t speak for the community, just because you can’t handle something doesn’t mean everyone else can’t... most top laners aren’t petty enough to quit because of one pick. We never did with the previous toxic champions we ain’t doing it now. And tahm doesn’t deserve to die because you can’t play against him
First of, stop speaking like you are some kind of front figure for the community - because u are not. Secondly, yes Tahm indeed deserves to die because there is literally 2 counterpicks against Tahm Kench. It's not like I'm the only one who can't play against him, so quit trying to project it on me. I speak for the community because I know people hate Tahm Kench. I talk with a lot of people, I play against Tahm Kench quite a bunch and hell, the Tahm players even say it themselves. I wont get personal towards you, just quit thinking you're superior and I have some kind of mental problem for not being able to play the game against Tahm because almost NOBODY beats that champ 1v1 in toplane.
: https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Topdogg554 Is this you? If yes, I haven't seen you play against a Tahm Kench in a while now. On the contrary you played him yourself and lost. You also played Karma Top, again you lost.
Rioter Comments
Uraraka (EUNE)
: Can someone climb in ranked playing solo queue support?
Hi, Maayonmaayan. Absoulutely. Climbing as support may be hard in low elo, but I got a few tips for you. 1. Get mobi boots ASAP, and start roaming to get the other lanes ahead. While your adc may or may not be an excellent player you roaming will be a contributing factor for your team. 2. Buy Ardent Censor.
: And Revive {{champion:150}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:78}} for solo Q top lane
FâgLord (EUW)
: {{champion:86}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:2}} Whops I dropped all my counter picks
GP and maybe olaf are the only realistic counterpics here.
stumpy (EUNE)
: He's an ad assassin? His fear & shield does give him really great tools for 1v1ing though.
And that is fair. But if you have encountered him lately in a 1v1 he flat out seems unkillable and that's my problem.
Rioter Comments
: I rather fight 10 tahms in a row than the next boring little kid playing mages toplane and getting away with it because the balance team is braindead as hell
Mages are a problem. But Tahm Kench is ruining toplane atm.
Nemitora (EUW)
: so....people hate tahm kench....for being strong in his intended lane.....because he is weak in a role he was never supposed to be in (support)....? i mean, we can nerf mid {{champion:103}} to enable ahri support while we're at it i guess
Thats pure bullshit. I dont know where u are getting your information from but its not right.
: Barely viable... out of all the games I’ve seen this patch he’s worked out once... he’s completely lost the ability to save allies or transport them around it completely negates the point of tahm being an armoured personal carrier. I’d honestly say ditch the damage on his passive in exchange for reverting his last W change.
Hey swampert919. He is barely viable in the support role but in the toplane he is a menace -> the title of the thread. I like your idea about ditching the passive damage, though his q is also overtuned just by a bit. Remove 15 damage from it and maybe we have a decent non toxic champ.
: Just ban him. If they nerf him they kill support tahm.
They already gutted Tahm Kench support. It's time to kill him like they did with old aatrox and make a new kench.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > What about his w and his e? Well his ability to devour an enemy dealing around 151 damage level 2 while remaining his passive stack is even more out of this world broken. He doesn't retain the passive stacks on devouring though. They are consumed. Besides, why do you not point out his weaknesses as well? I am sure you know as much about them as about his strengths when you have informed yourself so well about this subject. In the end, the problem lies in that Riot pushed him out of the Support role and redistributed his power for that sake.
He doesnt have any exploitable weakness for bruisers, hence I didn’t mention it
: Also, take a look at these in order to learn how to deal with the matchup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGT_O4ps5I&t=1240s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5uqRwsPxJ8
Thanks for posting the vids. Though it seems that you are missing the point. Tahm Kench is a threat to every bruiser in the game, not just riven. And yes I am aware of him being punished on his ability to support. But as a matter of fact, he is a digustingly broken champion in toplane and that was the point i made clear in this topic.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: What's your W/L ratio? I think also the higher you climb the ranking the less points you get in general. I might be wrong tho.
Doomley (EUW)
: You might be in d3 but your mmr is not which means you are actually not a d3 player. it will take time before your mmr catches up. It's not enough to play a few games for it to be fixed. Keep playing and it will fix itself at some point.
My mmr is d3 and thats the fact. My mmr is the same as my ranking but still im reciving such a low amount of lp
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Topdogg554

Level 141 (EUW)
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