: Well by that logic multiplayer for almost every game in existence is mindless violence. And at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, not "If you like this you're immature" I think racking up kills in a game trying to get to the top of the scoreboard and doing well to win a game isn't mindless violence, every shooter game has an objective, be it just a simple win objective (I.E. Kill the most or eliminate the team), or side objectives like capturing a flag. I don't think you're correct even slightly to call a shooter game immature just because you don't like them. The community can definitely make them immature, which is why CoD IS a good example, they have a large portion of children playing.
Nonono, you completely misunderstand. I like CoD. I've played in the region of 2k hours of MW2. So I'm not hating on it because I don't like it, but in League you kill people to get objectives, in MW2 you kill people to kill people. Nvm...
: I'm not entirely sure as to why you're attributing shooting games to people being immature, that sounds a tad close minded if you ask me. Either way, yes, I do agree that Riot want to move away from the over-sexualistion of characters, the way I see it, we have a shit ton of "sexy" champions already, I honestly don't see any point in adding anymore. To be honest, I see the oversexualisation of League champions as a way to appeal to people when the game was less popular, I mean look at clickbait thumbnails, they attract a massive audience just from the picture alone, in my eyes it's pretty clear Riot was taking advantage of this fact.
It's hardly a great venture to say that **mindless** violence is immature, even if it is in a game - but that's not the point anyway. Not all FPS games are like that either, some have a story and a purpose behind the violence, so I'm not saying that all FPS games are immature, but multiplayer COD for instance is quite mindless.
: Hm, thanks for the source. And I think that Riot are sort of being forced to make champions less sexually based and more just like champions. With all the shit that's going on with things like OverWatch, Riot probably don't want the bad publicity they get from SJW's. I personally don't see anything wrong with things being oversexualised because it's not like it's ONLY women in the game that are. Either way, I suspect Riot just want to change shit up and don't want to appeal to young people who pitch a tent over a bunch of pixels, because most of them are just immature and are toxic.
It could be a combination of both, to be sure, but since the desexualisation of LoL champions seems to have started before the SJWs started their Space Program, if you catch my meaning, I think there is also another reason apart from the bad publicity. Other large game companies have expressed a wish to appeal more to the growing female audience, and why should Riot be any different? Of the games I play, the ones where I have the most female friends that I play with (or have played with) are LoL and MineCraft, so one could argue that Riot should be more interested in appealing to a female audience than, for instance, Rockstar Games. The female audience has always been more interested in RPGs and similar games, than FPS games and other games where graphic and senseless violence plays a larger role. By contrast the violence in LoL is mild, cartoonish, and with a clear purpose, and is not by any means **all** the game is about, whereas COD for instance is actually only about shooting people (and occasionally blowing them up). This is probably because young women generally mature faster than young men. Tie this in with the points of my previous post, and you have an explanation of an ecosystem of champions that appeal to all players: the guys (and girls) who want to play as a character with an impossible physique like Jarvan IV or Taric, the guys who want to play as average characters like Graves, the girls (and guys) who want to play as "hotties", the girls who want to play as "the girl next door" and all the rest of them. I have no doubts that Riot recognises and values their female players as much as their male players, perhaps even more so since there are fewer of them (and, let's face it, they're probably on average far less toxic), so it would make sense that as the potential female player base expands, so does the amount of content marketed towards them.
efol00 (EUNE)
: bro fist?{{item:3052}}
Do not offer me that abhorrent item! It is a disgrace to the game and I do not wish to sully my name by association with it :P I will, however, offer you a more orthodox high-five.
efol00 (EUNE)
: Oh boy i'm gonna enjoy myself on this one. First off, why are you trying to sort me in a country i don't belong to. That's stupid. Secondly, you still didn't say how that didn't make her balanced. I do know her instant AoE is delayed by 0.3s but how is that so bad? I mean if you can't land a skill shot with a range and effect area like that, then i really don't want to hear you complain about me being silver these last 3 seasons. And think about it this way, if she had instant casts, how are people gonna dodge any of her abilities. Just making that delay people have the small time to try to dodge or flash away. Think about if every champ had an instant high burst dmg AoE ability like annie does. Malphite would teleport to hes ult, Darius still would be stupid with instant q cast and Ziggs would be ulting people without people having a change to dodge. Thirdly, i wan't to ask something. If people have "mained" Annie for so long, how come they can't land her ult or w with only 0.3 second delay. If they can't do that they are just calling them selves "mains" and when Annie gets a small nerf, they change the champion to "main" or complain about how she got "destroyed" when they can't land an ability like that. If you can't do it in the first game, how about you try and PRACTICE. It can't be hard to time an ability like that if you practice even a little. If you still call yourself a main after this, welp, i really don't care. Have fun.
A lot of people missed Alistar combos when they changed it as well, even though it technically made the combo **easier** to do. After just a few weeks of practice, these people were back to the same levels of consistency as before. I concur with Efol00, and your storytelling charade was frankly laughable.
Maluber (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tussetafsemann,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=2uXfossV,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T19:41:43.801+0000) > > And a champion that is not sexually attractive is not worth buying skins for? That strikes me as an odd criterion. According to OP rito doesn't like money as they haven't released any new 'hot chick' skins.
Yes... odd, then, that their revenue seems to be increasing.
: If i'm gonna stare at an avatar for fuck knows how long it might as well be a hot chick.
It is still a subjective opinion, and may not translate well to the opinions of the rest of the player base... I know that it is fairly common for male gamers to have female avatars in (especially RPG) video games, which I don't believe is necessarily connected to sexual attraction or a "wish to be female" that a lot of people seem to associate it with - it might be just what you describe here, it could be because of the player's thematic viewpoint, or it could be out of a desire to "test it out", so to speak. To get perhaps a small taste of how it would be to be the opposite gender, who among us has never even for a second wondered what that would be like? However, I think that more commonly, gamers will have an easier time relating to someone who is a little like they are (or want to be), and therefore we need the kind of "regular guy" champions like, say, Graves and Lucian. Some will relate to heroes, and that's why we need characters with stories like Jarvan IV, Lee Sin and Garen. Some will like the boisterous, and that's why we need {{champion:119}}. In the same way, we need heroic female champions, we need beautiful female champions, and we need "girl next door" champions. We already have enough beautiful female champions, and creating more just so you can buy skins is simply unreasonable.
: Mind citing your source for that statistic please :)
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/15/riot-games-releases-awesome-league-of-legends-infographic. However, if the intention of Riot Games is to have their game appeal equally much to female gamers as to male gamers, it would make sense to have balance, which there currently isn't. I don't think the reason for the mismatch is that Riot particularly **wants** their game to appeal more to male gamers, it's just that as we all know there are more male gamers than female gamers. However, that trend seems to be changing; the rate of female gamers has been going up for a while, so we may see a shift here in the near future, especially considering the article is four years old and the amount of female players has likely increased. (OR, possibly, the trend you are describing now is actually **a result** of the increasing number of female players).
: I just want a champ that is worth buying skins for. Ain't doing that for the tumblrinas, freaks and assorted dudes that came out in the past 2 years.
And a champion that is not sexually attractive is not worth buying skins for? That strikes me as an odd criterion.
: BS BS BS. You must be in bronze or wood to think that you can carry alone against 5 players. If it would be possible to countercarry 4 idiots in your team ppl who were in dia+ wouldn't have such a hard time to get up on top again.
Since you brought up the question of rank: he's Diamond 5. You're currently unranked and the highest your account has been was Silver 2. I am not one of the "the person with the higher rank is always right" people, but if you're going to choose to go down that road it might save you some embarrassment to take 2 minutes for research first.
Azure9861 (EUW)
: Why is there a limit of how many Hextech chests you can buy in one day?
Probably because otherwise, you could essentially get all skins for a lower price than buying them separately - and an account with every single skin would sell for a very large amount of money indeed. That's my theory.
: Well thats RIOT! They just Troll EUW and make a shittyy commuity TERRIBLE! I had 20 chat restrictions and got trough them all. Since then i didnt flame at all. But i think its because when you get a report from your team for no reason you still get NOTHING from HEXTEC! So yeah i am thinking to go play DOTA or something cuz riot is Fuckedupp
If you have had **twenty** separate chat restrictions, I have no reservations about telling you that you don't deserve any loot, or even the privilege of playing the game for that matter.
Draqone (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tussetafsemann,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=owzbdeEG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T17:29:43.344+0000) > > Veigar's ult can do upwards of 1800 damage, and Q and E together do a similar amount on a shorter cooldown. With that in mind, name a champion he doesn't outscale. He doesn't outscale those champions that finish the game before he becomes powerful. If the game does go on long enough he outscales everyone - which is why you can't afford to play scaling vs him.
Yes - but playing a game to finish before Veigar outscales you often requires a degree of coordination that is simply not found too often outside of full premade teams. Playing a mid-game activating champion like Corki does not automatically end the game at 25 minutes.
Encrux (EUW)
: Sure, sometimes you can't win no matter what you're doing, that's part of the whole climbing process. But simply saying that **everything** is your team's fault is a way too simple excuse. What I said worked completely fine for me and I've been climbing throughout the seasons. Looking back at my mistakes and fixing them gives me almost instantly positive feedback about my improvement so trying it surely is worth it. Let's be real, the only thing you get by blaming your teammates is satisfaction and an excuse. It makes things seem a lot more easy. You'd just have to fix matchmaking, right? No. The system works fine. Therefore, the **only** thing you can change about your situation is yourself. And yes, english is not my mother tongue. Where I come from the literal translation of "greetings" is used the way I just did. I am always happy to learn new things, thanks ;P
>By the way I'd assume english is not your first language as you used greetings after your paragraph which makes no sense, it's an introduction mate, you should say that first :P I disagree. A **greeting** should be at the beginning of a letter or post, but the **word** "greetings" can be used anywhere, as it also has other meanings. It is, for instance, a synonym for "regards", which is often used at the end of letters. Another way to use it at the end of a letter would be something like "my greetings to your family, {name of sender}". That said, I agree that the exact way Encrux used it is... unusual. My regards, Tussetafsemann
: Ah, I understand now. I guess both the devs and the community are now overrun by SJW tumblrinas and assorted cucks in the year I've been away. Sad... So much for getting some new eyecandy. Oh well, mods it is...
There is no one less SJW-ish than me, as anyone who knows me would attest to - but specifically requesting that Riot make more "hot" female champions is just beyond idiotic. The way I see it, you are free to enjoy the eye candy there is in the game currently in any way you want, and I will not judge you - whether you have your girlfriend dress up as Ahri or anything else - but the game is **not** made with this in mind, and therefore this request borders on frivolous.
: Please stop reworking champions into a less fun version of what they were.
Yes, and while we're at it, let us stop balancing the game entirely and revert to the oldest existing graphics files. There's a fairly obvious reason why reworks exist: either the champion was poorly designed in the first place, or it was designed with a different game in mind (e.g. how League of Legends was when Veigar was designed - which was very very different indeed). Veigar as he is now simply does not fit into the current game, as no other champion has a targeted oneshot ability (alright, some might be able to oneshot in certain circumstances, but Veigar reaches this point nearly every game). Veigar gameplay is very telegraphed and repetitive: farm Q, try to get someone with your stun, fail X times, finally succeed and **they are dead**. Does that seem like a well-rounded and well-designed champion to you? A well-designed champion has multiple play patterns, multiple counterplay options, and requires practice to consistently get to the point of being a small tactical nuke.
Draqone (EUW)
: Veigar can be shut down by nearly much every champion in the early or mid game. The only champions he "counters" are those that he outscales (Ryze/Cassio). He is a free kill for all assassins and there is nothing he can do vs poke. PS: I hate veigar's stupid cage anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Draqone,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=owzbdeEG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-26T17:06:19.663+0000) > > Veigar can be shut down by nearly much every champion in the early or mid game. > > The only champions he "counters" are those that he outscales (Ryze/Cassio). > > He is a free kill for all assassins and there is nothing he can do vs poke. > > PS: I hate veigar's stupid cage anyway. Veigar's ult can do upwards of 1800 damage, and Q and E together do a similar amount on a shorter cooldown. With that in mind, name a champion he doesn't outscale.
Retadas (EUW)
: How is this an A+
Riot: can you please write, in large capital red letters, preferably in Arial or Times New Roman Bold font size 48+, underneath the grade score: "**GRADES ARE NOT JUST BASED ON YOUR SCORE**" These posts are getting tedious.
: Ok so I need to change how I jungle. obviously getting myself or team mates fed early doesn't do the trick. Should I just farm and stuff, cus currently doing well doesn't seem to prevent those 2 team mates dying over and over, getting caught. I believe that's my gameplay, thanks for the advice fella. I'm sorry for being salty but to me it seems like the reality. My main account was diamond last season and reached platinum 1 this season season before it got banned. I found it so much easier to carry that elo and the way this gold is, is incredibly frustrating. "Those games" do happen and there's not much you can do about it, problem is the frequency though. I can't control 4 team mates who are doing badly and it's impossible to carry.
> [{quoted}](name=Wayne Pooneyy,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=FIQm8ayj,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T03:46:06.340+0000) > > Ok so I need to change how I jungle. obviously getting myself or team mates fed early doesn't do the trick. Should I just farm and stuff, cus currently doing well doesn't seem to prevent those 2 team mates dying over and over, getting caught. I believe that's my gameplay, thanks for the advice fella. > > I'm sorry for being salty but to me it seems like the reality. My main account was diamond last season and reached platinum 1 this season season before it got banned. I found it so much easier to carry that elo and the way this gold is, is incredibly frustrating. "Those games" do happen and there's not much you can do about it, problem is the frequency though. I can't control 4 team mates who are doing badly and it's impossible to carry. If your teammates keep getting caught, ward for them. You placed 11 wards that game, lowest in your team, which seems suspicious as you are playing a champion that relies on controlling vision in a vision-oriented role. 11 wards is, by any standard, an extremely low number for a 50 minute game. If they still keep getting caught, ping the map.
: Tanks dont do comparable amounts of damage, they dont neeed positioning tho
Don't they? On [Leauge of Graphs](http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats), ADCs seem to average around 24k (with some as low as 21k) while tanks average around 19-20k. If you consider that ADCs itemize specifically to maximize their damage, and tanks itemize specifically to minimize the amount of damage taken, a 20% percent difference between the damage output of the two is absolutely ridiculous.
: Wow that long post really makes it hard to reply/quote :) > Because an ADC delivers damage in a sustained manner, and most APCs can oneshot ADCs You answered your own question about what I meant there. ADCs have NO dps downtime so their burst cant be as good as an APCs (Burst is most likely what decides 1v1s), this is also why they cant be allowed to oneshot since oneshotting without cooldown doesnt make sense in a balance discussion. > I would say that Attack Speed is the equivalent of a cooldown Now compare ~1.5 attacks per second to a 4 second cooldown, sure Autoattacks dont have any utility(some spells dont have any aswell) but come lategame(which is when the ADC shines), the ADC outputs a way bigger amount of damage(like three times maybe? Dont have numbers at hand and its late) A few of the Kat examples assume really bad behaviour from either Ashe or her support, I get what you mean and its not the most important part so I'm not gonna get into that unless you explicitly want me to. > it is obvious that an ADC's sustained damage is useless when the APC can simply remove 95% of their health before they can fire their second shot. Actually no, in a scenario where everybody has his core items(because it doesnt make sense to discuss when/who is ahead), the ADC has to be entirely oneshot or he can simply get back to half/full life by basically autoattacking/critting 4 times(less than 2 seconds), while still outputting a ton of dps. Thats why basically every other role wants to kill them, if you cant they destroy you. > Yes, all of this is true. But a 27% chance to crit for 300 2 = 600 1.5 times a second is quite different from a 27% to crit for 1255 2 = 2510 in one go (example taken from LeBlanc's level 3 Mimiced Distortion, with a proc of her level 5 ult sitting on 500 AP). That depends on the availability of targets(which you dont always have) and also on how long the fight takes. Of course an AP Champ is gonna outburst you, Crit or not, but adding up the crits over a longer period will certainly reveal the superiority of the ADC. You cant pick a burst scenario(1.5 seconds) and leave the other side of the table completely out... > ¹. Guess I'm dumb, but I cant find where this is supposed to belong^^
I don't see how any of what you say differs from my opinion, except for your point about lifesteal. Yes, an ADC would be able to heal up with lifesteal, but it would be very hard for them to do that after being bursted by the enemy APC **in a teamfight** without simply being bopped on the head by any member of the enemy team and dying. So the ADC would actually be out of the fight for a while, not able to deal damage, unless they can find a position where they are **completely** protected from any headbopping whatsoever, which is quite hard. Even if you position absolutely correctly, chances are someone will be able to get up to you and hit you once. The point of positioning is not to not be hit at all, it is to be safe enough that if the enemies **do** try to kill you, you and your team will kill them first, and hopefully more members of their team as well... The only way to be completely safe from harm is to not be in the fight, and if you are in the fight after being hit by LeBlanc so that you have 300hp left, it doesn't matter how much life steal you have because Cho'Gath will just flash on top of you and eat you up, or Olaf will throw an Axe (or Flash + E), or any number of other scenarios that you can't really position against while still being able to deal damage to the enemy team - which they can do with impunity, because afterwards your team has no ADC and hence, almost no damage. > You cant pick a burst scenario(1.5 seconds) and leave the other side of the table completely out... I can when we are discussing the problem of ADC vs APC, because in this case the burst damage is pretty much all that matters. But yes, there would be a discrepancy here. I am not an implementer, I am merely sharing an idea, and I believe this is a small problem that can easily be solved by someone who has stats and information necessary to create a fair balancing formula for this. That is the job of the implementers.
Maher4530 (EUW)
: Shouldn't all champs have to be balanced? Why, for example, allow Teemo to destroy Tryndamere. Or Jax. Just think about it, a champ that could disable your attacking abilities, with a shot that you can't avoid (Teemo's Q) and takes no skills to land. And Teemo could attack you from a long range whereas if you try to hit him, he'll hide in his minions wave, if you attack him in there, the minions will destroy you. @Kjelldor - His autos, but not his Q. If I auto attack, I'm gonna miss at least 3 basic attacks, whereas at that time he take off half of my health. Been playing this game for the past 3 monthes heavily, and after about 350 games I'm just disappointed.
DELDE115 (EUW)
: thats true, but if you create a chain CC onto lucian, he is pretty much out of comeback for the entire duration of the CC. Throw Malphite top ; Ori mid ; and Braum, Alistar, Nautilus, Leo or even Shen (If people feel like playing Shen) support and you got a nice chain of stuns and knock ups. Lucian would be forced to buy {{item:3139}} for the active, and that would only help him to get out of one stun/knock up. Buying {{item:3139}} would also stop him because he will have to sacrifice one core item from the Korean build. And here is the thing, which item would lucian give away? {{item:3156}} {{item:3071}} and {{item:3142}} are needed. You also need {{item:3508}} and another crit item to make essence reaver worth the purchase. That is already 5 items and you only have 6 slots, the last one being obligatory boots. So what would it be? If he leaves {{item:3071}} you dont get the hp, the armor pen, the cdr, and the movement speed passive (which is great for him). If he leaves {{item:3142}} you dont get the nice damage, you dont get the cdr, you dont get the armor pen and you dont get the active. If he leaves {{item:3156}} you dont get the the damage, you dont get the mr, you dont get the armor pen, and you dont get the passives that are needed to make Lucian have the ability to sustain in fights. (now I just realized how much cheese this build is, my god). ________ The only thing I can think of is forcing Lucian to not be able to play League of Legends. In other words, make Lucian feel like Dyrus. Gank him every single minute. Pick any of the 2 Lee´s available in in LoL: **Lee** sin or Nida**lee** (Ouns of damage) and destroy lucian. In order to pull off the Korean Lucian build you need 43500 gold PLUS a crit item of your choosing (so you need to add even more gold), so you have to snowball from minute zero. If you anyone in your team can play a mean Lee sin, Nidalee or any other early game jungler that can destroy 3 lanes at once, then Lucian is done. _ _ _ I may not know much about anything, but honestly this is the only thing I can think about to make Korean Build Lucian seem like a Kikis failed invention.
Nidalee does Pounce of Damage {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} I don't quite understand your statement about 43500 gold though, seems to be on the high side.
: Because you play it wrong/bad? They are supposed to do most damage while protected/well positioned, maybe theres the problem... > Tanks already dont require any position/brainthinking So youre saying that you have no clue at all and just circlejerk? Okay. > > have the lowest pay off Because you cant 1v1? Youre not supposed to run around alone. > outputting higher damage ADCs deal 1k every 2nd auto lategame with ease, maybe you shouldnt be concerned about your earlygame and just farm until you do sth instead of fight mindlessly?
So... essentially you are agreeing to what he's saying by admitting that ADCs require positioning, and tanks don't, while at the same time tanks do comparable amounts of damage?
MonsefMA (EUW)
: but the RNG is too much, maybe make a set path for each elemental dragon spawn time, or make it rotating elements.
I can agree with that, for a certainty :)
: > I realise that APCs are essentially designed to win fights against equally fed ADCs, by delivering their damage in short bursts, but it should not be a foregone conclusion Actually it should since ADCs have no Cooldown on their Main damage whatsoever(except Jhin) > Katarina can easily dodge with E Bad example, if Kate Es her ult cancels, how the fuck is Ashe even in Ult range of Kat if Kat didnt use E? > way for the ADC to win, despite by design being at a disadvantage They arent, they just spike later but more powerful and are NOT supposed to 1v1 anything. They are at a disadvantage in a 1v1, this game isnt about 1v1... Ever seen a Zed complain that he is shit at Target-switching? > Perhaps the damage modifier should be lower Why, ADCs have no CD(more crits in total), 100% scaling(all stats translate fully into crits) and better multipliers(+Lifesteal on top of that if they get innate Crit chance and dont have to buy it anymore)?
You are rebuking only a select few sentences used to **explain** my position instead of rebuking the **point** of my post, which I would consider to be bad form in a discussion, but alright... I will humour you. > I realise that APCs are essentially designed to win fights against equally fed ADCs, by delivering their damage in short bursts, but it should not be a foregone conclusion >Actually it should since ADCs have no Cooldown on their Main damage whatsoever(except Jhin) I am not sure what you mean here. What _I_ meant was that it should not be a foregone conclusion that an AP carry (who is also not "supposed" to 1v1 unless they are an assassin) wins a 1v1 fight against an AD carry (who, yes, is not **supposed** to 1v1, but we all know it happens, and sometimes it can't be avoided. For instance you could bump into each other in the river). Counters should be a thing, but they should not be 100% effective, there should always be outplay potential. Because an ADC delivers damage in a sustained manner, and most APCs can oneshot ADCs (while most ADCs cannot oneshot anything apart from minions, although admittedly certain ADCs can oneshot multiple minions at once), it follows that APCs are by design strong against ADCs. Quoting from the League of Legends wiki article Guide:Team Jobs: >"Later on, when the enemy team starts buying Magic Resistance, [AP carries] lose efficiency, but still have potential to unload a lot of damage, usually to cripple **the enemy main damage dealer**." [emphasis added] This establishes that the APCs job is to get the enemy who deals the most damage out of the fight as quickly as possible. >"The AD carry is generally **the highest damage dealer** late game [...]" [emphasis added] This establishes that the previously mentioned "enemy who deals the most damage" is the ADC, at later stages in the game. Exactly when this happens depends of course on the game, the ADC, and the ADCs team, but I would say that with the current average length of games, the balance of probability is that the ADC will reach this point before the game is over, and the later in the game you get, the more important each fight is, because of the increase in death timers. It follows that in the most important fights of the game, the ADC will generally be the "enemy who deals the most damage" and therefore the enemy that the APCs job is to "cripple". Now that I have verbosely described what I meant, allow me to take the liberty of attempting to interpret your meaning. Do correct me if I have misunderstood. The way I understand it, you are saying that an ADC should be _winning_ this fight because they have no cooldowns on their damage? I would say that Attack Speed is the equivalent of a cooldown for ADCs, and while they do not have cooldowns as such, they still deal less damage over a short period than, say, an Orianna can do, unless they are exceptionally fed. Lucian is currently an exception with this build. Note that this statement is from an _imperative_ point of view (that is, how I understand the game is **meant** to be, how it is designed to be by Riot¹), not from a _descriptive_ point of view (how it currently **is**, _de facto_). >Katarina can easily dodge with E >Bad example, if Kate Es her ult cancels, how the fuck is Ashe even in Ult range of Kat if Kat didnt use E? Perhaps it is a bad example, however it seems that you still understood what I meant. I would say that the example then did its job, and its merits in a quality evaluation are irrelevant - but, for the sake of the argument: Yes, Katarina's Shunpo cancels Death Lotus, but if we apply human reaction times to the problem, I don't think it will matter. If it takes 1 second from when Katarina starts channeling Death Lotus, to when Ashe has decided to use Enchanted Crystal Arrow, correctly aimed his/her mouse and fired it, and Katarina cancels her ult to dodge it, then in a mid-game scenario where Katarina is level 11 and has 200 AP, Death Lotus will already have dealt 420 damage in itself. Her Q and W would have dealt 525, assuming five points in Q and 3 points in W, which totals 945 damage. Check the math if you wish. A level 11 Ashe has 1221 base health, and few conventional ADC builds include health that early in the game, so after this combo by Katarina she has 276 HP left, not counting resistances². In the same amount of time, the Ashe would have been able to deal perhaps 300 damage (not counting resistances), which leaves Katarina with 938 of her 1238 level 11 base health left. Regardless of whether or not they fight to the death, Katarina is currently in the lead here. If the Shunpo used to dodge the Ashe ultimate is used on Ashe herself, assuming 1 point in the skill, it would do 90 damage and Ashe would have 186 health left. At this point it is likely that the Ashe is running away and the Katarina could simply follow and wait for her skills to recharge before killing her. In the event that the Ashe attempts to continue the fight, the Katarina could simply kite for a few seconds until Bouncing Blade and Sinister Steel are back off cooldown, drawing on the extra health she has left, and then kill the Ashe. In a real world scenario, Katarina would likely use Ignite as well, which would spell the end of Ashe (even if she heals because of the self-healing reduction on Death Lotus and the blanket healing reduction on Ignite). How is Ashe in ult range if Katarina has not used Shunpo? I can see a number of scenarios that make this possible. Katarina may have been waiting in a bush that Ashe walked by, Ashe might not have been paying attention to the particular part of the map that Katarina was coming from (checking how her team is doing while making her way to them), Katarina may have teleported close to the Ashe, Katarina may have been standing just around a corner or on the other side of a thin wall that allows her to hit Ashe, or Katarina may simply have Flashed into range (or she may have Shunpoed into range, and used Flash to dodge the Ashe arrow - either scenario has pretty much the same outcome). I am sure there are more ways for this to happen, but I think five examples should be enough. > They arent, they just spike later but more powerful and are NOT supposed to 1v1 anything. They are at a disadvantage in a 1v1, this game isnt about 1v1... Ever seen a Zed complain that he is shit at Target-switching? This is simply irrelevant. Pretty much anyone who is not an assassin is at a "disadvantage" in a 1v1 because the game is designed to be played as a team of five, just as you say. I am and have always been utterly convinced that this game is **not** about 1v1s, as I have tried to explain to numerous toxic players who have wanted to 1v1 me to show off their skill. However, as I have said before, 1v1 fights do happen across the map, in every game, all the time. Moreover, there are a lot more APC assassins (LeBlanc, Katarina, Fizz, Ahri, Kassadin, Nidalee, Akali and some that can be played as assassins despite not thematically being one: Veigar (oneshot combo), Malzahar (look you down and kill you with dots before you can react), Ekko (wait for you in his stun field and then chase you down with Z-Drive Resonance) than ADC assassins, of which only Twitch and Kindred (who is not even commonly played as an ADC) come to mind. That means that most APCs are good against most ADCs in 1v1s. The way I see it, this should not even be up for discussion; it is obvious that an ADC's sustained damage is useless when the APC can simply remove 95% of their health before they can fire their second shot. > Why, ADCs have no CD(more crits in total), 100% scaling(all stats translate fully into crits) and better multipliers(+Lifesteal on top of that if they get innate Crit chance and dont have to buy it anymore)? Yes, all of this is true. But a 27% chance to crit for 300 * 2 = 600 1.5 times a second is quite different from a 27% to crit for 1255 * 2 = 2510 in one go (example taken from LeBlanc's level 3 Mimiced Distortion, with a proc of her level 5 ult sitting on 500 AP). This is because of the fundamental difference between burst damage and sustained damage, I am not sure how I can explain it any more simply. ¹. This understanding is based on my experience in playing the game over several years and having read almost every patch notes released since v1.0.0.131, and having developed a system that displays champion stats as viewed from a specific patch (for instance, the cooldown on Veigar's Q in 4.19.2, which was 4 seconds. It was 5 seconds in 5.19.1, and still is). I will provide a link to a demo of this system if asked. It is necessarily a subjective opinion, so if you have any proof or statements supporting a different opinion I shall be pleased to hear them. ². I am leaving resistances out because in this particular 1v1, neither champion will have particularly large amounts of resistance, and they are likely to be of comparable values. Whether both Ashe and Katarina have 50 Armour and MR or 20 Armour and MR, it does not matter for the outcome of the fight as long as they are both the same.
: The worst thing seems to be the fact that you can't keep balance between CS and Teamfight Presence/Game Impact/KDA with some champions. It's just that rigged. Just saying... I wouldn't be surprised, if some supports' ranks were CS dependant too, though.
And that is why we need more transparency as to how the system determines your grade. It would allow for community input. It is not such a great stretch to compare it to a school teacher giving a student a C grade and giving no feedback except for "do it better". Chances are the student doesn't **know** how to do it better; if they did, they would have done it better. The exact same thing applies here, we are simply told "you should have played better", but given no information about **what** it is, specifically, that we could have done better.
: Well it shouldn't influence it to the point that you'd troll your teammates to keep your KDA higher. Maybe a 10-25% lower LP loss or higher gain. So instead of losing 20 LP you'd lose 16-18 or gain 27-29 instead of 25 on an S-, S or S + score. And support scores include number of wards placed, wards removed, assists, number of deaths doesn't influence the final score as much as in other roles.
Given the current community, even a small difference like the one you are suggesting here would lead to a situation much like the one Gnominator is describing. Not to put too fine a point to it, players in this game don't need a _reason_ to troll, they need an _excuse_. This system would hand them that excuse on a silver platter.
MonsefMA (EUW)
: The problem with the new elemental dragons.
I disagree that the Cloud Dragon is useless. 45% Movement Speed is not to be sneezed at, even if it is out of combat. It encourages macro-oriented play by allowing for quicker repositioning of resources, and allows a team to more easily choose engagements. This is imperative design by Riot. When you have more Movement Speed than the enemy team, it is much easier to both force a friendly engage and to avoid an enemy engage attempt. The Mountain Dragon is certainly not useless; 30 true damage per hit to towers is massive, just look at the effects of the Red-Buff-Works-on-Towers change for confirmation. It will also help quite a bit with securing other objectives. Thus, my verdict is that the new Dragon system is fair, but more diversified than the previous one. Just because a particular variety of dragon does not give combat stats does not make it useless, because what does it matter if the enemy team has an Infernal Dragon buff and an Ocean Dragon buff when you can just outrun them with your Cloud Dragon buff and knock down their towers before they can respond with your Mountain Dragon buff?
duckarp (EUNE)
: Will tanks, assassins, supports and mages get some RNG too? Because at the moment they can rely on everything in their kit... If they stack armor, they know it will block certain amount of damage (let's ignore pen for now). If you go for crit, unless you have 100%, you can never know if you will crit when it's of a vital importance or not. Crit is the only RNG stat and it's a very double edged sword for already too squishy champs. No wonder Koreans are trying to find a way around that and chose to go for armor pen.
> [{quoted}](name=duckarp,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=ByEwgtQu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-25T00:09:25.006+0000) > > Will tanks, assassins, supports and mages get some RNG too? Because at the moment they can rely on everything in their kit... If they stack armor, they know it will block certain amount of damage (let's ignore pen for now). If you go for crit, unless you have 100%, you can never know if you will crit when it's of a vital importance or not. Crit is the only RNG stat and it's a very double edged sword for already too squishy champs. No wonder Koreans are trying to find a way around that and chose to go for armor pen. I agree with that. Perhaps the notion of critical strikes can be built into the game on a more basic level (i.e. not given by items). For the sake of the argument, let us say that a champion's critical strike chance is 1.5 × champion level, and there is no way to increase it beyond that. How would this affect the game? I think it would preserve the RNG aspect, giving ADCs a chance to oneshot people, while simultaneously not being something that one relies upon because the highest possible crit chance would be 27%. It would also make the extra levels past 18 more meaningful in URF. To explain my position on why crit is not archaic... Crit is, the way I see it, something that is meant to allow ADCs to kill tanks, when used alongside Armour Penetration. The effect it has against squishy targets is collateral damage, but it is not all bad. Why not? If a 3/0 Katarina and a 3/0 Ashe of equal skill face off against each other, I would put my money on the Katarina. Virtually the only way the Ashe wins is if she hits the Katarina with an ult, which Katarina can easily dodge with E, or she gets a lucky crit. I realise that APCs are essentially designed to win fights against equally fed ADCs, by delivering their damage in short bursts, but it should not be a foregone conclusion. There should always be a way for the ADC to win, despite by design being at a disadvantage. I believe that my system, or a variant thereof, would preserve this while shifting the itemisation focus away from critical strike chance. I also believe that it would make the concept of critical strikes more realistic, as it essentially translates to hitting a "soft spot" in the real world. Clearly a punch to the throat is much more harmful than a punch to the leg, but it is also likely to be much better protected. Therefore, you wouldn't always have a chance to strike at the throat, while striking at a leg is virtually always possible. This is reflected by an inherent crit chance based on level; level reflects your champion's experience, and a more experienced real world fighter would be much more likely to find an opportunity to strike at the throat than an inexperienced one. After further thinking, it occurs to me that something would have to be done differently for abilities. Perhaps the damage modifier should be lower, or the crit chance lower... because it would be nonsensical to give APCs critical strike chance on their autoattacks only.
: 1-0-21 and 1-0-39 as Janna and just got "S".
As has been stated numerous times before, the grade system evaluates your performance through a wide range of factors, score being only one of a, heh, score of various things having an impact. I would agree that the grade system needs more transparency and probably a rework of its formula, or its complete abolition on the basis that it is nearly impossible for a computer algorithm to correctly and effectively evaluate your performance in a game as complex as League of Legends; however, I urge you to search before you post questions that may (and in this case have) been answered a thousand times over.
: It's not Lucian
Eloquently written, my friend. You make excellent points and support your arguments well. I disagree with crit being archaic; a certain amount of RNG is in order in my opinion, but the rest is gospel.
: if u want to negate zeds ult just play fizz :D
> [{quoted}](name=LètsGetFizzical,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OkpH7QNz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-24T19:04:56.279+0000) > > if u want to negate zeds ult just play fizz :D Is a champion balanced if his only counter is a specific champion? Also, I would like to see your ADC Fizz montages. A Zed will go for the ADC over the APC more often than not, so it's not even a particularly good counter. > [{quoted}](name=duckarp,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OkpH7QNz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-24T19:15:48.869+0000) > > Nah, a good support is a perfect counter as well... Shame teamplay is so rare. > [{quoted}](name=LètsGetFizzical,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OkpH7QNz,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-24T22:16:52.518+0000) > > yes there is, have a good support who knows what hes doing > [{quoted}](name=Stell,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=OkpH7QNz,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-24T22:19:11.529+0000) > > But a champion that has a hidden passive which suddenly forces shittons of coordination from a random group just doesn't seem right I must agree with Stell. Other champions also do this, like Thresh with his hook, but not to this extent. At least the Thresh hook is a skillshot, and a relatively hard one to consistently land at that. Skarner has to walk up to you, in theory through your tankline (or expend his flash), before he can use his Mikael's-forcing skill on you. Ahri has to land a slow-moving skillshot. On the other hand, Zed can now essentially with impunity consistently kill the enemy ADC in every teamfight, because of the 80 second base cooldown on his level three ultimate... unless the ADC breaks every convention in the League and builds Zhonyas. This is not even considering that if a Zed is fed enough, he will be able to kill the ADC without using his ult, and do it so quickly that it scarcely leaves the support time to react (and, I might add, still be able to get away with it). Most carry-oriented champions reach a point where they are fed enough to do this, but for Zed, I feel that point is reached far more quickly. Further, I don't believe "being good enough at supporting" is a valid counterplay, as most of the players in the League are, let us face it, not good enough. I mean no offence, I am simply stating the facts as I see them. Moreover, a well-designed champion generally has counterplay that is done by the person needing to counterplay it, not by his teammates.
: BOYCOTT DYNAMIC QUEUE - RAISE SOLO Q FROM THE ASHES AS A STRONG PHEONIX
> [{quoted}](name=Power of Rice,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=h6JG5Hwf,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-23T19:29:12.261+0000) > > Basically fuck you Riot for creating the most dumbest system ever created for a ranked system! > So let's all sign a partition or AFK from League until the cock suckers sucking the joy out of the game and tons of money into their self-centered personas decide to bring back Solo Q! > Fuck you RIOT and Fuck you who supports Dynamic Queue. Alright... saying "fuck anyone who does not agree with me" is not the most effective way to garner supporters for your cause, but that's a different problem. I think it comes down to preference, and I see no reason to completely remove Dynamic Queue because part of the community does not like it. Some people like Coca Cola better than Pepsi, does that mean Pepsi should be removed from the stores? There's no obvious reason why these two systems should not co-exist. Regular Draft Pick is not known for being updated frequently, so virtually no extra resources are needed to keep both systems in the game. The only caveat is that it would likely require two separate ladders, or (if implementation is reasonably doable) a sort of reconciliation formula between those who queue dynamically and those who queue... statically (that is, the old way).
: While I agree that making URF random would be better than the current version, it doesn't solve the problem at its root. What happens if a team rolls OP URF champions and the other team rolls stuff like Yasuo? It would make it really frustrating.
> [{quoted}](name=ZoumeroBiftekaki,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=aE9pUb2m,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-23T18:24:56.596+0000) > > While I agree that making URF random would be better than the current version, it doesn't solve the problem at its root. What happens if a team rolls OP URF champions and the other team rolls stuff like Yasuo? It would make it really frustrating. I don't think this is applicable as champions are not balanced for featured game modes (or any game mode other than 5v5 SR, for that matter), and demanding that Riot do so is simply unreasonable. However, randomising the champions completely **does** create some problems, so perhaps a compromise can be reached here. Going into the lobby, each player is given a choice of, say, three randomly selected champions. The player can elect to play any of these three that he or she prefers, but can not select a champion not among these three. Possibly a reroll-system like in ARAM would be in order, but I leave the decision on whether or not to include that solely to Riot, as I don't have the information necessary to make an informed judgement on the matter. Afterwards, summoners can trade amongst themselves just like in Draft Pick. It is relatively unlikely that neither of the champions presented to the player is fit for URF, while encouraging a wider champion pool in the process, the same way ARAM does. > [{quoted}](name=Owyn,realm=EUNE,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=aE9pUb2m,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-24T20:16:46.997+0000) > > another revealed {{champion:74}} > > Then they'd just go right to their next smurf account, nobody wants to be forced into bad gameplay, and for players without accounts this would still make their games worse - either bad champs or "punishments". To solve potential problems with, hmm... smURFs, the system could pick the three champions from the entire champion pool and not just from the champions the player owns, or at least have a chance to pick champions outside the player's pool.
Snowfox (EUW)
: It's about how much you take, not about how much you don't take. You take post-mitigation damage, the other bit is mitigated ie you don't take it.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowfox,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=RKOitgYf,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-17T20:08:18.573+0000) > > It's about how much you take, not about how much you don't take. You take post-mitigation damage, the other bit is mitigated ie you don't take it. I'm sorry, that's just wrong. Of course the performance of a tank is more easily construed from a stat that shows pre-mitigation damage, because it's not about how much damage you actually take, it's about how much damage your team **doesn't** take. If a fed LeBlanc's burst hits your ADC, it's likely going to be in the 1800's and one-shot the ADC, while if it were to hit you on a 200 MR tank, it would do ~0.33 * 1800 ≈ 600 damage. Still, you have prevented your ADC from receiving 1800 damage, not 600. Furthermore, note the wording in the League of Legends wiki (yes, it's not canonical, but I believe it gives a fair indication of how the community defines the term "damage taken") article on Magic Resistance: "Every point of magic resistance [sic] requires a unit to **take** 1% more of its maximum health in magic damage to be killed. This is called "effective health"". [emphasis added] This is clearly referring to pre-mitigation damage, as if it was referring to post-mitigation damage the sentence would be nonsensical, ostensibly rendering Magic Resistance a pointless stat. Thus, I feel that the community defines damage taken as pre-mitigation damage, and would venture to suggest that the term "damage received" is commonly used for post-mitigation damage.
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