Rismosch (EUW)
: Yikes. I also dislike dikeheads.
SirBlues (EUW)
: When you're basically forced to dodge a ranked game.
Having to dodge twice = Spending more time in game lobby than in game, poor game design in a game that is literally overflowing with toxicity
: RIOT REMOVE MY PERMABAN I DONT DESERVE THIS
I face palmed so hard my eye balls landed in my next door neighbor's pond.
: This: One of the major issues I have as a "1% most toxic player" is the amount of misuse of buzzwords like "Toxic" and "Int". It's almost as if it has become cool to throw these words around when you don't like something someone says, even if it is it legit criticism without flaming. It quite often looks something like this Which means this game has become like the liberal fktards who snowflake at everything irrationally. When you point out someone is stacking Armor vs a fed AP counterlaner, they tell you stop flaming, and the best part is that Riot EFFECTIVELY BANS YOU FOR THIS EVEN IF YOUR REMARK CONTAINS NO PROFANITY. Therefore, I became and will be toxic, including griefing int feed, botting and hacking.
Using "liberal" as a negative stereotype is just as bad. If you don't like our liberal values, you can go live in Saudi Arabia and enjoy your anti-liberal paradise. It's a liberal and moral view from which I wrote the original post. Also, botting and hacking is unacceptable in any context, for any reason, just like raging. This article is about why people rage and raising the problems that need to be addressed, it has nothing to do with defending flaming, I merely attempted to outline how practical comments can sometimes be taken as flaming by assholes with god complex.
: I didn't read all of that because it's a really long wall of text BUT even if you are unable to ignore and mute someone who is attacking you, you can defend yourself while still staying nice I'll take your example: Person A: If you stay under your turret and farm when you're low on health maybe he won't be able to kill you Person B: Maybe if you follow Zed then we wouldn't die Person A: Well I can't follow him because he has lane priority, I'd give up two waves in order to follow him Person B: So you saying your cs is worth more than Zed going 4-0 or what Person A: I'm saying you need to avoid getting killed. I pinged that he's coming bot so back away then he can't kill you Person B: Dude he's just diving us under turret he's super fed we can't do anything Person A: Then back away from your tower, retreat to inner turret, don't die repeatedly if u know that Person B: Yeah then I'm giving up two waves of cs and enemy botlane takes tower for free so that u can farm gg Person A: we can't 3v3 him anyway, doesn't make sense if I roam down Person B: Well 3v3 is better than 2v3 is it not? Person A: Triple for Zed instead of double? I think no Person B: You could at least try man Person A: You could just get a stopwatch when he ults you Person B: A new one every time he comes? Sure... Person A: Don't we have a jungler or something? Person B: Yeah right, wtf is that Lee doing? Lee: I'm camping toplane Darius: Yeah I'm 5-0 up already, dw I carry this As you can see, it's a totally civil conversation with zero flame or anything. Sure, it's totally pointless to type novels during a game because every word you type are seconds you are not moving your champion and playing the game but yeah, you can defend yourself without flaming. And even if one person starts to get really offensive and calls you % and & and / and whatever, just don't insult him back and nobody can punish you. Just stay polite and stay constructive, don't flame back. The best way is still to just ignore the other guy. The mute function is a really powerful tool.
> [{quoted}](name=C4rolijn91,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=rEP5zgAE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-14T20:25:15.057+0000) > > I didn't read all of that because it's a really long wall of text BUT > > even if you are unable to ignore and mute someone who is attacking you, you can defend yourself while still staying nice > > I'll take your example: > > Person A: If you stay under your turret and farm when you're low on health maybe he won't be able to kill you > Person B: Maybe if you follow Zed then we wouldn't die > Person A: Well I can't follow him because he has lane priority, I'd give up two waves in order to follow him > Person B: So you saying your cs is worth more than Zed going 4-0 or what > Person A: I'm saying you need to avoid getting killed. I pinged that he's coming bot so back away then he can't kill you > Person B: Dude he's just diving us under turret he's super fed we can't do anything > Person A: Then back away from your tower, retreat to inner turret, don't die repeatedly if u know that > Person B: Yeah then I'm giving up two waves of cs and enemy botlane takes tower for free so that u can farm gg > Person A: we can't 3v3 him anyway, doesn't make sense if I roam down > Person B: Well 3v3 is better than 2v3 is it not? > Person A: Triple for Zed instead of double? I think no > Person B: You could at least try man > Person A: You could just get a stopwatch when he ults you > Person B: A new one every time he comes? Sure... > Person A: Don't we have a jungler or something? > Person B: Yeah right, wtf is that Lee doing? > Lee: I'm camping toplane > Darius: Yeah I'm 5-0 up already, dw I carry this > > As you can see, it's a totally civil conversation with zero flame or anything. > > Sure, it's totally pointless to type novels during a game because every word you type are seconds you are not moving your champion and playing the game but yeah, you can defend yourself without flaming. > > And even if one person starts to get really offensive and calls you % and & and / and whatever, just don't insult him back and nobody can punish you. Just stay polite and stay constructive, don't flame back. > > The best way is still to just ignore the other guy. The mute function is a really powerful tool. It doesn't happen that way though, because they're not trying to have a civilized conversation, they're trying to troll you, and they're always successful because once you're matched with them, they simply ruin the game no matter what unless you can win a 4v5 against 15-2 fed champs. And surrendering is impossible cause they're usually 2+ premade. And leaving is impossible because dodging trolls has a more severe punishment than being a troll, and even if the punishment was the same, they just make a new account, cause they only play to troll, so their level and champs don't matter, meanwhile the other guy who just wanted to not have his day ruined by a troll either has to waste 40 minutes of his life with a toxic asshole, or risk getting banned or queue timer fine just for avoiding them. The system is toxic and promotes trolling, because there is no way to avoid them without being punished besides muting them, and muting them doesn't even stop them trolling, it literally just stops them talking, so it literally accomplishes nothing towards solving the issue, it's a just a way to try and hide from it. If the issue isn't fixed, league will remain the most toxic game on the market, and people will gradually quit as they're tired of all the shit. Because of Riots seemingly lack of giving a shit towards this issue, they have lost over £4000 from me alone from s3-s8. I doubt I'm the only person. This issue is directly hurting Riots profits and creating toxicity. It's irrational to leave it undiscussed and not addressing it.
Rismosch (EUW)
: Yeah no. People think as long as they are "constructive", their criticism is justified. But fact is no matter if constructive or not, criticism is criticism. And you should most of the time never criticise anyone ingame. You see, psychologically criticism hurts, literally. Being told to be wrong activates the same regions in the brain as physical pain. Criticism is pain. People don't want to be criticised. Being able to take criticism is a valuable skill indeed, but things get complicated when the situation is stressful. League is stressful. LP is at stake. Even in normals people want to win most of the time. And if you criticise people who already lose, you tilt them even more. It doesn't matter if you are right or not, but you still criticise people which tilts them. You can't expect people to suddenly play better, right after you tilted them more. To add to it, there is also a fallacy: Who's to say that your criticism is actually valid? What if you just had a garbage lane opponent or got camped all game? Then your "impressive KDA" doesn't justify anything. And since people are so focused on their own playstyle, anyone who dares to attack them can easily look like an asshole. I mean just focus on yourself while you read this exact comment. You yourself said "you're a snowflake if you think criticism is toxic", now I am telling you it is actually tilting people and I bet you disagree with me. You most likely think right now I am this snowflake and most importantly you feel some kind of anger or just bad feeling against me, don't you? I look like an asshole, don't I? But here's the thing: Even though I try to explain you why criticism is toxic in a constructive manner, you still have the urge to dislike me. Do you realize what this means? This means if you put yourself in simmelar shoes and criticise people, you easily tilt others. I tilted you with this comment, despite it being "constructive criticism". You tilted others in the game, despite it being "constructive criticism".
It's a strategy game where you should communicate and work as a team, and adapt your play to defeat the enemies. I don't play League to babysit childish snowflakes and neither does anyone else, letting these people do what they want is why you get junglers afk because an invade went bad, or cause bot lane is 0-3 even though you're winning all other lanes hard because your deaths impeded on their safe space to not have their characters pixels bullied by the enemy, so stop defending snowflakes who cry because they're not pro. Taking criticism is part of growing up and fitting into the world.... League of Legends was designed to be a competitive game where communication, teamwork and adaptiveness are paramount to victory, if you're talking about "criticism is bad" then you already missed the point of the game. If you want to be good you SHOULD criticize every play and teamfight, so you can do better next time and overcome the opponents. If you refuse to take criticism in a game that is about adapting your strategy and working as a team to defeat the enemy, then maybe you shouldn't play a fast paced, team based game if you need a snowflake safe space to participate in life. Fast paced competitive environments was never suited for cry babies with god complex, why should League be any different, man up and grow some balls. When people get banned for defending themselves from abuse and people who troll get no punishment (because they just make a new account and continue trolling) then you're on the wrong side of morals comparatively to any respectable country in the world. Also, as for your "you tilt them more", there is a clear difference between "Ez keeps feeding" and "If you stay under your turret and farm when you're low on health maybe he won't be able to kill you". If someone understanding your plight against a strong champion gives you tips, and you think this is negative, then you are regressive. When I'm struggling I want tips, not to be completely ignored and forgotten while I get smashed under my turret 12x over 30 mins, so apparently people feel worse when you tell them how to fair better than they would if you said nothing to them, didn't gank for them, didn't do anything and basically pretended they didn't exist because they're doing bad? Sorry but this makes absolutely zero sense to me. If you think this is worse than telling them how to not die, then you was probably dropped on your head as a child. I have low self esteem and emotional sensitivity that you're talking about, and being abandoned in a game when I'm being deleted every 2.5 minutes is far more frustrating than reading a tip that could maybe help me survive 1 minute longer each time and improve my dogshit KDA, as well as making me less likely to experience such a frustrating laning experience in the same match up in the future. I literally can't even attempt to figure out what you're trying to imply with your statements, I'm truly baffled. You're saying I should feel better if my team completely forgets I exist (we don't gank losing lanes) and feel bad if they care enough to give tips to improve my experience? Wow. Ok. Alternatively, we could just not pamper assholes with god complex who were probably raised poorly by their parents and thus have no respect for anyone but themselves.
: > [{quoted}](name=xTigax3,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=rEP5zgAE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-14T22:37:41.086+0000) > > There are MAJOR problems with the report system: > > You can flame as much as you want if you avoid certain phrases or just flame ppl using sarcasm and pings. Asking someone to stop being toxic and working together in a team is appearently enough to give u a chat restrict after one game. No. Abusive behaviour is what gets you punished, not just words themselves. Also, getting suspended for what you mentioned here is ridiculous. That doesn't happen. If you do get suspended for that, I'm more than sure that you're hiding something. > Riots System attacking the INITIATOR of toxic behaviour with a huge multiplier as well as only banning players that respond negative to toxic behaviour it is very severe (like racism, sexism, death wishes etc, basically all instant 14 day ban triggers). What's the difference between the initiator and the recipient who turns into an abusive person as well? Two wrongs don't make a right. Retaliation is not welcome here, cause you're just creating even more problems without solving anything. > > While I would never initiate toxic behaviour I can't always stay cool if people flame all day. I'm just a human after all. Self-control and mute. "I'm just a human" is not an excuse. We're all humans here and we're all in the same boat. > Put in a fulltime tribunal for people that get not banned through the new system but are reported in a good percentage of their games, especially for intentional feeding as well as negative attitude. The Tribunal was extremely slow and thus ineffective. Don't see a point in bringing it back. It just allowed people to break even more rules before actually getting punished for their actions. > > Increase the amount of MILD negativity needed to get chat restricts and put in a 1 or 2 warnings with chat logs showing which things are considered to be bad. Many people don't realize stuff that is MILDLY toxic, like report calling and keep getting restricted without knowing what they did wrong. > > Look after the amount of games played with valid reports within number of games and not real life time between games as well as include champ select chats and post game chats I for a fact tested and they do not get used for any bans(maybe except manual bans, even tho riot says they get recorded). > > All my tests were made with premades so I didn't harm random players, and over the course of over 50 games in a row, no restricts no bans nothing. But did they report you though?
No one is using "I'm just human" as an excuse for raging, I'm highlighting why raging happens, is it that hard to address why it happens without having a discussion on whether or not ragers should be banned? Two different topics entirely. If the core issue isn't addressed and you apologists keep snowflaking these people then they will continue to troll, and as good players quit because they're tired of the shit, the game will eventually be overrun by mostly trolls. It's already the most toxic game on the market and from half of your post I'm assuming you didn't even read the post, 'cause counter points to half of what you wrote exist in the post. And the other half of what you wrote is referencing ragers, not trolls. Which isn't what this post is about...
Torkl (EUW)
: You are considered toxic because you seem to think you know better then any1 in every single situation
I don't think you read the post.
: > [{quoted}](name=Huma136,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=rEP5zgAE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-14T18:03:35.517+0000) > > I just think most people are toxic as a defence mechanism, so they rage when people are trolling. The problem is often the trolls go free, while the rangers get banned. It's a bad "defence" mechanism. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Again, this isn't about whether ragers should be punished or not, this is about the core of the problem not being addressed at all
: Stupid-simple idea to stop afkers and inters!
Because punishing leavers more than we already do, when we have zero control on trolls is unfair. I think Trolls should be punished more heavily, or we should be able to afk. Punishing people for not wanting to tolerate 40 minutes of trolling is dumb. Fix trolls, then worry about afk'ers. Just by removing trolls less people will afk. Also, as someone already stated, disconnects they can't control, power cuts etc. Punishing someone for living in a less wealthy city is trash
azar84 (EUW)
: ***
Oh sweet summer child...the night is dark and full of terrors.
: Get off your high horse
Good conclusion, but no substance
Mad Loony (EUW)
: Do reports have more value than we think?
They have way more value than you think. That's why trolls can get me banned for defending myself against their misplaced abuse
: I would like to hear form a troll: Why do you do it?
Some people find it fun. Others just had a shit day and want to ruin your day too. It's also important to point out that not everyone is equally emotionally intelligent which affects how they understand their actions impact upon others, in other terms, they're inconsiderate. Just like not everyone is equally intelligent. The problem is emotional intelligence issues tend to flare up more, since they're expressions of how we feel about something, that may or may not have superior moral ground.
Voidner (EUNE)
: Sometimes it's ragers sometimes is rangers Why can't it just be Rengars? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not sure what's worse, ragers in every game or rengars in every game...{{champion:103}}
: But one person in WoW has the same power but for 25 people but I agree there is no system you can use to stop people trolling unless they make the game pay to play say £15 per account but then it would turn away new players. There is no easy fix for a game that attracts young players and trolls look at Fortnite its free to play and has same issues because people can make new account if they get banned creating a endless cycle, I'm not saying all young players are trolls same as I'm not saying all older players are not trolls.
Use the replay system to deliver video reports to remove ambiguity from chat log reports. Chat logs can't show you who is trolling/grieving, a video can
: I don't understand I've been playing league on and off for 5 years, I'm not competitive and I rarely type in chat and not suprisingly never been punished from League by Riot. I don't have the right to judge whatever other people are doing on the team, I'm not their father.. If they want to troll, Rage, Be agressive or make bad plays or just being a bad player.. Why let it effect you in real life to the point you are compelled to rage on a video game. I dunno maybe I'm to old to care what a 13 year old on a computer game is saying about me or my mom, I'm 39 so the image of someone of 13 saying they gonna have sexual relations with my mom makes me laugh and also is terrifing.
Because 1 person having the power to decide that 9 other people have to waste 40 minutes of their life is shit game design. Especially, when punishments are in place for leaving the game. Either trolls can do what they want, and we can leave the game without punishment. Or trolls should be controlled and we can't leave the game without being punished. One or the other, both is stupid and disrespectful to the community, and unhealthy for "eSports". Riot is literally the only company in the world that punishes you for avoiding trolls. Before you think what I wrote above is ridiculous, not complying with what I wrote about leavers + trolls essentially creates a prison of toxicity, and toxicity is the games #1 problem which costs riot money in the long run while making toxicity worse. It's lose-lose for the community, and for Riot
Shukr4n (EUW)
: well, they are separate and together at the same point. and i assure u , i already fought my fights about trolls and punishments and in every thread i always found the ones who got tunnelvision. and i was wrong and trolls need time to be found. BS. why people rage is justified if compared to trolls behaviour. NOT justified if compared to rules agreed. and u always be mature to follow first the rules then ask for justice
That's an interesting point but I want to add that a game developer should design systems around player behavior, that is partly what makes a good or bad system and predicting how systems will be used is part of the design of the system itself. If a system is designed to prevent something, and it happens anyway, then the system doesn't work. Whenever this is true, the rules are pointless, because you can enforce them all day long, and you'll never get the system to work.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: i understand your frustration and your reasoning. however, putting your example in RL, u can livve 20years, then killing one person and spend rest of your life in jail. 0.5% . rules are rules. and u agreed them. if u dont like them, u cannot create the account. so what? lol isproperty of a private gamehouse. they spend resources to create it. they make what gives them more profit. probably, toxic players make new profit leave the game. are u blaming them? create your own game and allows the toxicity in it. watch it grow and then spread your experience. i dont like the community behaviour, nweither i like the gamehouse rules about trolls. what i did? i left. peace
I did say I do not condone raging despite having participated in it. I'm merely outlining why it happens, and unless you address the cause it will continue, so ban ban ban away and while good players are quitting, cause they're tired of the shit, the trolls just make new accounts, cause trolling is why they play. Your chances of being grouped with trolls will increase. You're explaining why rito bans people, I'm not disputed that at all, I'm explaining why people rage. Why people rage and why rito ban people are two completely separate topics. The reason this behavior doesn't happen in WoW is because the game costs £50 and £10 a month instead of free. £60 fine for trolling is expensive.
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