: Stop trolling me because of Kleptomancy and Barrier
: Why do you not respect pings? Need an answer
This reminds me, I hate midlaners that don't follow their laner. Tbh, as the old saying goes, midlaners that ss are as rare as an undeserved perma ban. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
Kabakadamn (EUNE)
: Banning noone in ban-phase in ranked game
So long as akali is banned it's ok by me ;P Tbh though it's a valid option and some people do it. Doesn't make it troll. Peraonally, I think the more irritating people in lobby are those who ban someone and then ask the team to ban more champs for them.
: Yeah, there was a short phase a few years ago where it worked like that for about a year, but not anymore. It wasn't really an effective system, sadly.
Does anyone know if you are on the punishment ladder, do you ever come off. So say for instance you had a 25 game chat ban, but have played honourably for a year, would this reset so that the next punishment would be 10 game chat ban or will you be at that ladder point forever. Obviously I mean this for the less severe cases of chat bans like non-homophobic, non-racist etc.
: every game i get to silver 2 60 lp i get a troller and or afk in my team. wtf? what can i do
Get to 59, then your next win will jump you passed the cursed 60lp.
: KDA should have impact on MMR as much as Winrate
I'd be for it. I average kda 6:1 on janna and 4:1 on sona, it's definitely better than my win percentage this week :(. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: After the season ends, will my MMR be effected if I play ranked ?
Yes, I didn't realise this and used preseason to play for funsies. Never play ranked for funsies.
: Is it possible to gain honor 2 until the ranked season deadline?
I'd be quite hopeful. Good luck, and stay flame free. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Please delete Akali rito. PLEASE. LOL.
But its a valid point! {{sticker:sg-shisa}}
: Sarcasm is good. I actually typed a lot of sarcastic comments, never had a single ban or chat restriction.
Jsp (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ViralSurvival,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=fru2Ebfm,comment-id=0005000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T15:30:15.531+0000) > > When you said league is competing in a team sport is where I thought you were also comparing it to a team sport hence, the reason I went down that line. I also think I may have been responding to something else about flaming teammates to make them play better so probably may have gone slightly off point in my response. > > > I do still think that you can compare the two. Both require a team of individuals working together, in general of similar ability (you play people in the same elo after all. yes there are exceptions), you have a common goal to win. We both agree and most would to that the anonymity provided by the internet does give people a sense of they can say what they want without repercussion, but that&#x27;s the point of the punishment system. As you rarely see the person again you have no true idea of whether they have been punished or not, bar following every reported player on op.gg, but who has time for that. > > Its not unfair. You flame, are toxic, call some one f*****t, you should be punished. Whether the other person was inting, playing bad, flaming, (insert other behaviour you don&#x27;t like here), if you are toxic you will be punished. That is the one constant you know exists. It&#x27;s childlike to use the excuse &quot;but he did this&quot;, or &quot; but she did it first&quot;. > > I think the source of your frustration involves a couple of things. It is easier to ban someone for flame because the evidence is more obvious, its right there written in front of you. An in game behaviour is harder to prove without further analysis, although admittedly I don&#x27;t know how sensitive or specific the algorithms used are to identify these. The other key source of frustration is that people don&#x27;t have sufficient feedback on whether people are punished or not. You might get the occasional popup but I agree this is not enough to appease many players, myself included. So a better feedback system might be useful for players that gives more detail on their reporting and the outcomes of them. > > I think I put it in a reply somewhere recently that more detail on the number and types of reports you have sent and what was deemed inappropriate and what actually lead to a ban might let people see that they are being listened to, but also educate us on what is not a useful report. When i was comparing league with a team sport. I was making a point that it's a competitive game that riles you up and makes your brain work on overdrive. You can't be completely logical when you're more focused on winning the game than thinking straight. Your focus is 100% on the game. Just like in football or whatever.. You're focused in the game and you're shutting off the outside world just to win. The point of flaming the teammate is not to make him play better. When your teammate starts shouting in all chat wishing cancer, running down mid lane to die to the tower and stealing your blue buff, it's not to make them play better.. It's to get revenge and venting that frustration of wasting your ladder points and time. Maybe even your promo's if you're unlucky. When you get a case of a reported person. You're only seeing the reports that the players have given you. A warning is something you can just hand out without thinking about it. But a ban. You're kind of choosing to exile a person from a tribe. That punishment is very hard and PERMANENT. So to take 5 minutes of time to check the persons OP.GG or what have you, out is at least a MINIMUM to do since you're handing out an harsh and PERMANENT punishment to a person. If you are given that much power. You should not hand out bans so lightly. My point was: It's unfair that if a person ex: plays anivia just to wall out teammates so they don't get to the safety of their tower and die to a gank, that player gets to continue this and receive no punishment. But that.. Let's say sion, flames that anivia. "F""" You, you stupid F"""""T anivia troll" he gets banned either for 14 days or permanently.. To me that seems unfair, when in reality, the anivia should be banned for hes toxicity permanently and the sion should receive a warning for abusive language. <-- In my mind that would be perfectly acceptable. Yes i agree with you. The abusive language is right there in front of you. It's easy to detect and read. But people should take in consideration, what caused this abusive language? Did he just spontaneously think it's great to call the jungler racistic slurs because he didn't gank? OR is because the jungler came and baited you into dying? If the flaming person would elaborate the situation while flaming, i think it would help with this. It's true, you don't know what's happening in the game. You only see one case at a time. If a person receives a ban instead of an warning, the player should be able to get the recording of the offending game so they can contest the ban with riot support so the ban could be reconsidered by a person who reviews the case again. That way, riot gets no extra work by having to check the recording each time they hand out a punishment and the player gets a chance to prove themselves that they were not as toxic as they seemed. Of course they STILL need a punishment for the flaming like a chat ban and a warning. But a straight out ban when they were harassed harshly and just tried to defend themselves, seems totally uncalled for in my eyes. But it's just my opinion. > "I think I put it in a reply somewhere recently that more detail on the number and types of reports you have sent and what was deemed inappropriate and what actually lead to a ban might let people see that they are being listened to, but also educate us on what is not a useful report." This is a good idea. Since many players use the report function as a revenge tool for a player just playing badly. Reports should be very descriptive so the rioter handing out punishments would have more content to study. But then again, you're limited with how much you can write on the report.
Oh I agreed from the start, both players should be punished, and personally I think in case of somebody inting and the other person flaming (so long as its not too overboard i.e racism religion, homophobia etc.), the harsher punishment should be resereved for the inter. So I didn't disagree with that at all. But perhaps where we differ is that I think that a harsh punishment should be used for terms such as the N and F word despite in game harassment from other players. Again please correct me if I misunderstood your viewpoint. I find that several times on these boards now, I have seen people use the excuse that they just wanted to make their team play better so that's why I was toxic, and I may have misread the initial point I was replying to because I thought it was saying that it was ok. May have been a case of me arguing against a point I assume was made but that wasn't even there in the first place lol.
: >My suggestion is that perhaps much like you have post game stats, people have a monthly or so, feedback report on what has happened. For example a table with rows down vertically with each report heading, ie. negative attitude, verbal abuse, afk etc. And across the top headings of number of reports, reports enacted/resulted in punishment, reports deemed inappropriate. That's a bad idea because some people will use it to get around the system and some will probably read it wrong like "Oh no I got reported 14 time for negative attitude so if that player report me I'll be punished" wich is false because even if you get reported 70 time if it's fake you won't get punished, since the system can't tell if it true or false that mean it's missleading information so it's a bad idea (do some research on how reports works next time please). > It wouldn't please everyone. You can never please everyone. Well that's why Riot have the actual report system, because it's not about pleasing people it's about having an effective system wich so far work great. >But it might satiate the need for people who feel nothing is being done about behaviour x, y, and z. Your idea won't change that, if people wanted to know they would be on this board reading message of people being banned/punished and seeing their chatlogs. >it can also educate us a bit more about what can be seen as inappropriate reporting as that is also an issue that seems to feed the problem. Read the Term of use you agreed to follow, it's clearly stated what's tolerated and what's not. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse >Many people may be overreporting on a behaviour which they may not agree with but may be not deemed a non-punishable or reportable offense e.g. playing poorly or having a bad game. Hence why what I said above is important, so your system will just give false informations to players, otherwise Riot would have made such system by now if it was effective. >Would like to know if what anyone thinks of the idea, good or bad, but more preferably any suggestions to improve things rather than just moan about the systems that are in place. Well it's a pretty bad idea, because if even after a 14 day ban a player still continue to be toxic then get banned do you believe your system will change their behavior ? It will only lead to confusing players and making the good old "Report this player" threat gain more credibility, so more people will use this threat.
> [{quoted}](name=Deathraven13,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Nz6OG94x,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-17T16:12:23.395+0000) > > That&#x27;s a bad idea because some people will use it to get around the system and some will probably read it wrong like &quot;Oh no I got reported 14 time for negative attitude so if that player report me I&#x27;ll be punished&quot; wich is false because even if you get reported 70 time if it&#x27;s fake you won&#x27;t get punished, since the system can&#x27;t tell if it true or false that mean it&#x27;s missleading information so it&#x27;s a bad idea (do some research on how reports works next time please). > Ah, I see what you've done here, you have mistaken the idea behind the table as a report on the persons behaviour i.e. the reports they have received or why they have been banned. It's not that. It's an extension of the infrequent feedback report popup that players get that tells them some action has been taken. I thought that opening paragraph had set the context of that ie. "players thinking why am I banned when X,Y and Z haven't been", "report feedback system, which is currently an occasional popup saying "thanks, someone has been punished" essentially". Perhaps I should have realised not everyone can garner an understanding of the point from the context in which it resides. Perhaps I should have made it more obvious. Either way thank you for pointing it out as I can now clarify that. Obviously any implementation would be much better laid out and presented as this is a simple brainstorming of ideas. > Well that&#x27;s why Riot have the actual report system, because it&#x27;s not about pleasing people it&#x27;s about having an effective system wich so far work great. > Taking the line out of context there. The report system is there as a service to everyone, that includes educating about what is and is not appropriate as well as, "dishing out punishments". I don't believe I said anywhere that the report system isn't an effective system, I am looking at ways to improve things. But if I did please point it out. > Your idea won&#x27;t change that, if people wanted to know they would be on this board reading message of people being banned/punished and seeing their chatlogs. > As I said previously this is not about your behaviour, this is an extension of the instant feedback popup, as many people are not happy and think that many are getting away without punishment. Again sorry if I didn't make it simple enough for you to understand, I will try to address that next time. > Read the Term of use you agreed to follow, it&#x27;s clearly stated what&#x27;s tolerated and what&#x27;s not. > > https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse > Again not point. > Well it&#x27;s a pretty bad idea, because if even after a 14 day ban a player still continue to be toxic then get banned do you believe > your system will change their behavior ? It will only lead to confusing players and making the good old &quot;Report this player&quot; threat gain more credibility, so more people will use this threat. Again this is not a table about your behaviour or feedback to the person being banned/punished. But it can give a clearer idea of what is an inappropriate report, I thought that was made clear by my mentioning people reporting others for having bad games and thinking it is appropriate, " Many people may be overreporting on a behaviour which they may not agree with but may be not deemed a non-punishable or reportable offense e.g. playing poorly or having a bad game.". Obviously something that needs to be made clearer so that all can understand. I do note I actually I did make a mistake there, that should read "not deemed punishable" I do hope that clears things up for you and hope that has made it a bit easier to understand the fundamental point of the feedback report idea, which you seem to have confused with something entirely different.
: sarcastic remarks: are they punishable?
Problem with sarcasm is that sometimes it can be hard to determine the intention in just pure text. Eg. In a recent game an irelia died after killing 2 people at baron. I said "GJ irelia". She replied, "What what did I do wrong?" Or something along those lines and I had to tell her no I wasn't flaming I genuinely thought good job.
Rioter Comments
Jsp (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ViralSurvival,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=fru2Ebfm,comment-id=00050000000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-16T18:23:54.734+0000) > > I&#x27;ve played in competitive sport irl obviously not professional level but you certainly can get punished for dissent and unsportsmanlike conduct. Definitely at high school/secondary school level if you call someone a f****g f****t repeatedly in the game you are getting punished for it and is an easy yellow card. And to be honest at higher level I havent come across anyone abusive to their own team in real life. Yeah people say things like whos got left back, fking push up or get the fk back and defend, but in general it&#x27;s not abusive. I can&#x27;t think of a situation where calling someone a f****t is appropriate in any situation. I guess in real life perhaps people act more normal, you know without the safety of anonymity and being nowhere within physical reach of the person you&#x27;re being abusive to... There is a difference here. When you're playing sports in real life, your whole team is pushing to win the game. You don't have a person in soccer who's running around, passing the ball to the enemy team. Or a goalie who dodges the ball to purposefully lose the game. And even if there was, you'd kick that player off the game. But in league, the people who intentionally want to ruin games don't get punished in that match. That's why you never rage at the enemy team for outplaying you. You rage at the teammate who's ruining the game for you and your team. It's not correct to compare league to a physical sport where you are face to face with your teammates. People never have the guts to act out in public right in front of a person cause then consequences are right up in your face. But in league, toxic players can do anything they want and go on unpunished if they don't write anything on chat. MOST of the time people who flame in chat are always in the same scenario. One person in their team is ruining the game for others. And the person who raged at the toxic player always gets punished. It's unfair. There is a massive trend here where we attack the flaming person and never notice what caused the flame in the first place. It feels like it's more logical to start trolling in games to get back at the toxic player instead of flaming them. But i'd like to add now that i'm not one of those flaming players. As i said earlier. Played since 2009. No bans. But i can sympathize with OP because he's just a child.
When you said league is competing in a team sport is where I thought you were also comparing it to a team sport hence, the reason I went down that line. I also think I may have been responding to something else about flaming teammates to make them play better so probably may have gone slightly off point in my response. I do still think that you can compare the two. Both require a team of individuals working together, in general of similar ability (you play people in the same elo after all. yes there are exceptions), you have a common goal to win. We both agree and most would to that the anonymity provided by the internet does give people a sense of they can say what they want without repercussion, but that's the point of the punishment system. As you rarely see the person again you have no true idea of whether they have been punished or not, bar following every reported player on op.gg, but who has time for that. Its not unfair. You flame, are toxic, call some one f*****t, you should be punished. Whether the other person was inting, playing bad, flaming, (insert other behaviour you don't like here), if you are toxic you will be punished. That is the one constant you know exists. It's childlike to use the excuse "but he did this", or " but she did it first". I think the source of your frustration involves a couple of things. It is easier to ban someone for flame because the evidence is more obvious, its right there written in front of you. An in game behaviour is harder to prove without further analysis, although admittedly I don't know how sensitive or specific the algorithms used are to identify these. The other key source of frustration is that people don't have sufficient feedback on whether people are punished or not. You might get the occasional popup but I agree this is not enough to appease many players, myself included. So a better feedback system might be useful for players that gives more detail on their reporting and the outcomes of them. I think I put it in a reply somewhere recently that more detail on the number and types of reports you have sent and what was deemed inappropriate and what actually lead to a ban might let people see that they are being listened to, but also educate us on what is not a useful report.
: IN THE END IS LEAGUE AN ESPORT OR A MULTIPLAYER GAME
Both. The issue is that League is in the public forum. Im not saying its a publicly owned one, just that it has a public face. It has to cater to many audiences. It would be bad for the reputation of the company to do nothing about flame. Imagine mainstream media - "10 year olds exposed to online bullying". "Child expelled from school because of vile game community attitude". They have to think about things outside a small bubble.
Hansiman (EUW)
: > Do you have the stats on how many "inting" reports people issued and from them how many the system considered to be false? It's based on replies Rioters have made in the past when it comes to false reports. When it comes to intentionally feeding, a system analyses the game in an attempt to understand the intent behind gameplay. This is obviously not easy for a system to do automatically, but due to the sheer size of the game, it can't be done manually. --- > why won't Riot do a survey in the client and ask the community if certain words or phrases should be considered ok? Because that's kinda what the reporting system already does. IFS is a machine learning tool, and the community sets the standards through reports. It's through reports that IFS actually picks up new trends and figures out what is punishable and what is not. It's been perfectly capable of picking up trends, and cultural differences on the different servers. As an example, calling someone "dog" considered far more offensive on the Korean server than the NA one, and that's a cultural difference IFS learned by reports.
> [{quoted}](name=RuFiot,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=O2FZB8EE,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006,timestamp=2018-10-17T10:39:39.799+0000) > > It hard to get hard evidence when they don&#x27;t share anything, so you use what seems to make sense, do you think the report system data isn&#x27;t biased, is it represents a clear minded person vote? > So don't say you have discredited them when you haven't > If you have a run of 20 bad games in a row, and your team keep on reporting you for a bad player and you don&#x27;t stop and do the tutorials or play on your smurf till you get good again &quot;it will have a negative impact on other players experiences then it should be punished.&quot; > Being a bad player is not reportable that's why we have a tiered rank system. It even says on the report screen, griefing is not having a bad game > If it walks like a duck.. > it could be someone walking like a duck and not an actual duck > It is PG-13 game in the internet and known for its toxicity, If they want to shelter their children so much they really should let them play only single-player games So schools with safeguards shouldn't bother and all children should be home schooled just because theres that risk of one bully or dodgy person waiting outside the school gates...
: Ive never called someone a %%%%%% and never will(ingame at least). If youre black youre gonna get called %%%%%% by other black ppl anyway, if it hurts your feelings become white like michael jackson.
Please say your trolling, I refuse to believe that this is your actual logic.
: To troll and just keep my brain in shape by writing smart things. I feel stupid if i don't do many things at once or for the day. So i need to write here and do things somewhere else... Oh, wait! My game started. Bye Bye. Hmm i don't like this song, gonna change it.
AFK REPORT! _pings ? and ! repeatedly_
be4fraid (EUW)
: You are missing the point. The system flaw is that you can't redeem yourself to get rewards back even if there is an entire month left until the end of the season. So what is the point of playing league then for that month? Just saying , that technically since there are no things to do to try and improve for all the players that got the punishment for whatever reasons , they can literally troll pick/try out new builds ( like mentioned: tank heimer jungle , ap voli adc and etc ) and this might drastically impact other players chances of climbing. Not saying anyone should do it since it's scumbag move but the way the system is done it opens the possibilities for people to do that. As for the comment above : "For a standard chat restriction, it takes far more than one game in order to get punished. Only in cases of extreme verbal abuse would you get punished for a single game, and then it would be a case that is escalated to a 14 day ban." ^ It was one game. Not 2 , not 3 - one. And it wasn't toxicity but negative attitude. I didn't say a single curse word. Didn't call a person a single bad thing ( idi*t , go ki** yourself or smth like that) . None of those.Yeah I talked a lot and i was unhappy but I wasn't insulting the person , just stating that the pick was awful. According to live support it was not toxicity but negative attitude. They are sorry to hear this but it's the system that detects flame and not the people and they can't reverse it.
I do agree with part of what you say here. There is a major difference between being punished in march and being punished in September/October. All factors can be the same for both except the timing of the punsihment and one will get the rewards, the other won't. But at the same time I also understand it is a season based system so there will have to be cut of periods for rewards and so on.
Hansiman (EUW)
: CJXander is correct. Tyler1 was undergoing an **indefinite** ban, which means he wasn't allowed to play the game at all. Any account he was caught using would be banned on sight, regardless of the behavior displayed on them. It didn't matter if he streamed or not. Indefinite means "until further notice", and there's a method to apply to have this suspension removed after at least a year has passed. Tyler1 was approved after applying to remove the indefinite ban, but all accounts that were permabanned remain banned.
That's what I meant by saying banned on sight, but I'll take note that I was not clear enough in how I intended it.. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer by saying that Tyler1 'the person' was banned (regardless of account), and by saying unbanned, his restriction was lifted (I understand his ACCOUNTS remain banned but the restriction of him playing any league in itself is a type of ban, indefinite or not).
Hansiman (EUW)
: > Do you have the stats on how many "inting" reports people issued and from them how many the system considered to be false? It's based on replies Rioters have made in the past when it comes to false reports. When it comes to intentionally feeding, a system analyses the game in an attempt to understand the intent behind gameplay. This is obviously not easy for a system to do automatically, but due to the sheer size of the game, it can't be done manually. --- > why won't Riot do a survey in the client and ask the community if certain words or phrases should be considered ok? Because that's kinda what the reporting system already does. IFS is a machine learning tool, and the community sets the standards through reports. It's through reports that IFS actually picks up new trends and figures out what is punishable and what is not. It's been perfectly capable of picking up trends, and cultural differences on the different servers. As an example, calling someone "dog" considered far more offensive on the Korean server than the NA one, and that's a cultural difference IFS learned by reports.
To discredit something, you actually have to have the evidence at hand that discredits them. Simply saying "I discredit them", does not discredit them. Having bad games is not intentionally feeding. If it was ok to ban for having runs of bad games, there would be no bronze, silver, gold or plat, heck there wouldn't be any league community. With regards to bad connection maybe once or twice getting D/C is understandable, it happens. But if you have gone 5, 6, 7 games continuing to play, knowing you are going to have a bad connection and make no attempts to sort it out knowing it will have a negative impact on other players experiences then it should be punished. Talking about the company promoting an SJW agenda is a bit of an unfounded conspiracy theory. But, especially in a game that many children play, they have a responsibility to have protections in place for that section of the audience. If you had a child or a relative who was young and playing this game would you be happy with them being exposed to some of the bannable chat in the game that can make them think its ok to act that way in society? Besides its not riots job to teach you how to act with decency and civility, that's the job of your parents (or guardians).
Hansiman (EUW)
: > Do you have the stats on how many "inting" reports people issued and from them how many the system considered to be false? It's based on replies Rioters have made in the past when it comes to false reports. When it comes to intentionally feeding, a system analyses the game in an attempt to understand the intent behind gameplay. This is obviously not easy for a system to do automatically, but due to the sheer size of the game, it can't be done manually. --- > why won't Riot do a survey in the client and ask the community if certain words or phrases should be considered ok? Because that's kinda what the reporting system already does. IFS is a machine learning tool, and the community sets the standards through reports. It's through reports that IFS actually picks up new trends and figures out what is punishable and what is not. It's been perfectly capable of picking up trends, and cultural differences on the different servers. As an example, calling someone "dog" considered far more offensive on the Korean server than the NA one, and that's a cultural difference IFS learned by reports.
moved to reply to appropriate post sorry I keep trying to reply to the RuFiot post but for some reason I cant get it to.
: Did you read the part where i target it at ME and theres a possibility im black removing all racism from the statement.
It may remove racism from your specific statement, but it does not remove the racism associated with the actual word.
CJXander (EUNE)
: >Riot unbanned tyler1 just because of the popularity the game has lost , and now the only people who play are toxic people. Riot hasn't unbanned Tyler1, they just allowed him to create a new account without being instantly sniped into oblivion. Get your facts straight.
He went from ban on sight, to being allowed to play on stream again. So while not in the strictest sense of the word was he unbanned, he was unbanned from being allowed to stream the game. Lighten up a little and read between the lines sometimes.
: Being a Hostage.
I think it was known and made clear at the start of the season that you needed to have honour 2 or higher to get the rewards. Whether we personally knew it or not does not matter, if the information was there and available at the start but we just didn't acknowledge it, it still counts. For sure there are ways to improve the honour system and punishment system, but simply stating it isn't fair without good suggestions of how to make it better it isn't going to achieve anything.
: If you don't use it to insult anyone. Like "fk this dmg is insane" or such. I guess. If you wanna be absolutely sure, replace f*ck spam with heck.
lol yeah I think I probably use it way too much too. To be fair it is one of those rare words that can be used as a noun, adjective, verb adverb pronoun, the lot. Its probably the context that is more important, but yeah I think everyone could probably reduce their use of it.
: > [{quoted}](name=014 Ronen 014,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=ubE4BJLE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T22:50:00.142+0000) > > i rather believe my personal expierence because for a FACT i won many games without relaying on my adc. Let me rephrase a bit from my previous statement. When I mean that you as a support do not have a deciding role in the outcome of the game, I mean it as despite your team going 0-15 by 10 minutes you can still win the game. I.e, 1v9 as some call it. This is usually reserved for hypercarry junglers and toplanes, like Twitch, Yi, etc. These are champions that can actually, if fed enough, kill the entire enemy team alone and end the game. As a support, any support at all, you can't 1v9 because a) your gold income is low, and b) you aren't a hypercarry. What you CAN do however, is to pressure other lanes. THAT might decide the outcome of the game. And as you said yourself, you have won plenty games without relying on your ADC, which is perfectly fine, because that means you're correctly handling solo players and instead focusing on helping the rest of your team which actually wants to play as a team.
The problem with this view is that its quite an old one and may have applied to the game much more strongly previously, but as the game is changing with each patch, it is actually quite hard to truly now 1 v 9. It might still hold true in very low elo games where people don't have an understanding of how to play the game or knowing or even wanting to learn how to play from behind, an unfortunate biproduct of the "ff15 stop wasting time" mentality. A lot of the time if someone goes 15/3 or something there are incremental reasons as to how its happened stemming from both your own team and mistakes by the enemy. But as I said in another post above (or below) it depends on the definition of carry that you use.
: Totally agree on the second part of your answer. Well here s the thing, if they overextend, have bad positioning and in general die often, most of the time it s because they are not competent (unless enemy is overwhelming because smurf or skilled player). So the question is: is it better to invest resources in someone that is having bad performance (and most likely will drag you in ) or look for the player/s doing good and can benefit more and carry the team to victory? Of course is not like I avoid the adc for the rest of the game, I simply give more priority to who is performing good.
I think that is a key skill in support, recognising your win conditions. Sometimes you just have to realise your adc is never going to get strong enough whether it be champ selection or the player themselves. By all means focus on how you will win. If that ez doesn't look like they are doing the business, supplement that unkillable garen, or that jungle twitch, buff them, heal them, help them in a 2v1 in jungle. You as support have that power. Its not as fancy as the micro skills of a leblanc (bullsh*t champ, j/k... but im not really :P) or the high KDA of a jinx, but macro is often better than micro. Its unfortunate that these skills don't have measurements attached to them to make them look more obvious. But in my opinion LP is more important than KDA, and that's the true measure of soemones level in the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=ViralSurvival,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=ubE4BJLE,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-16T23:21:47.009+0000) > > Roaming is a tough part to get right. In low elo adc will always cry when you roam and the die. Even though they can see you have gone to ward or get chime or are helping jungle, they will always say it is you fault. You need to recognise adc skill level and recognise the state of lane before you go. If adc is doing the general thing of bad positioning, forgetting they also have wards, and overextending may not be best time to roam. If they are competent, go ahead but maybe warn them and ward for them first. > > Sometimes leaving the adc alone is the best thing you can do for them. Most typical time is when bot lose tower first. Adc will be so far behind they need to catch up with solo cup and gold. There will be slot more you can do macrowise on the rest of the map. Remember support doesn&#x27;t mean just for adc but support for the team. Just remind the adc to ward, before they overextend, with no vision, get collapsed on, then cry that your not babysitting them. And this is what i do, warn but it doesn't matter, the adc or other role in that case doesn't listen. and when you tell me to go ward for them, i can't do it for 2 reasons: i have 4 wards limit and i have specific locations for where i use my wards to gain the best enviorment vision on the map at the later phase of the game both lakes and forests on right and left. The other reason is that simply i'm not gonna go risk dieing just to follow a suicidel player, it's also gonna cost me time to get to the other side of the map instead while i can help other players who don't try to take the game 1 against 5. ADC isn't the only role effected by this, here another case of TOP players who stay at top all game farm 24/7 and never come to help other lines, so they win their line and they force their top enemy to leave top with a 6/1 score, but then their lane enemy decides let's go bot and dive with the jungle 4 players on 2 players and kill them and destroy the tower. i'm not gonna lie, i get mad when players allow their enemy lane to roam other people lines and ruin them, i understand that players are roaming but at least follow them and help to even the numbers, but no, in this situation the top player will remain in top, and 4 people will destroy our first tier tower in bot, then he will do it again in mid. and suddenly it changes the all game but more space opened up, so they gain 2 towers down while top farmed what? 30 more minions? and then he goes from 7/1 to 8/8 because they decided to gang on him cuz he always alone like i mention before.
Split pushing is actually a really complex strategy that to work optimally requires the team to communicate really well or at least understand game states. Split pushing is often thought of as a way to "solo carry" a team especially in low elo, but it is much more than that. When someone is split pushing ideally its to apply pressure on one side of the map so that the enemy team is split in a decision as to fight for an objective, team fight, or send people to stop the split pusher. The hope is that if someone pushes top or bottom, the enemy team has to use resources to deal with that, leaving your team with open to take drake, baron, another tower or force a 4v3 fight. The split pusher needs to recognise when its time to keep pushing, join your team and flank the opposition or run like hell. You as a team need to recognise when its time to apply pressure elsewhere or hold a team in place while the split pusher takes towers. Ideally this should be communicated by the whole team, unfortunately solo q isn't as coordinated as a team that knows eachother well. As the support you can actually have a major role in this. You should have better macro play than your team and game awareness, as you don't have to split your focus between that and cs. You need to recognise these situations as they arise and take a more commanding role in that. Ping like crazy, type "push bot, we will go baron", "care adc and support missing", remind them to ward when split pushing. Give your team as much info as you can. There will be always situations where it seems someone isn't listening, that's the nature of solo q. Some people will think of split pushing as just push until you die. Which sometimes is right and is sometimes wrong. They may not realise that late game being off map for 40-50 seconds is devastating. Its about recognising when to do these things. Some may not be listening because they have turned off pings and chat (maybe they are trying to regain honour), some may not have a good understanding of the game state and how to split push, some are just bad at it, some can only play 1 dimensionally. Its solo Q unfortunately, sometimes people just don't listen. As a support main, I found that it is often worth watching or reading about tactics other roles use, so that you get a better understanding of what others are doing and how you can help that tactic and recognise things that are happening. I found particular youtube vids and articles that break it down well and I would link some of these but im not sure exactly what the board policy is on that, whether it counts as promotion or if its allowed. If it is I can direct you to them. Play the other roles to get an understanding, jungle is probably the closest to support as they also need good map and game awareness and don't have to focus so much on cs either. This is obviously only the bare bones basics of it and you could write pages on it, but the info is there if you are willing to find it and learn. Personally I find that in low elo, no matter what tactics are used often the one it always boils down to is team fights. There will always be team fights, play Sona. I'ts probably the first and often only thing people will have some basic understanding of. If you want to stick to support find a team fight king or QUEEN, play Sona. If you can keep your team alive longer than the enemy, play Sona, even if they do less damage or aren't as skilled as the enemy if you keep them alive long enough you will win, play Sona. Sorry I'm a little biased to certain champs but honestly, play Sona :P. Just in case you didn't get it, play Sona.
: Unfortunately I am in the same situation. Love to play support, is one of the most dynamic role in the game and can make a huge difference in team. Generally I tend to ignore the adc after repeated warnings and multiple deaths and try to support other lanes. Immediately you get flamed for this, even from the one you' re helping, but I guess it's normal in bronze/silver. Just lost a game where adc got constantly grabbed and killed, of course the problem was not his position but "support not doing anything". But I don't want to turn this into a rant. What I do generally is to get a global idea of how the game is going and spot strength of my team and weakness of the enemy and use my kit to increase them. Sometimes it's quite impossible so you end up floating between S5 and S4. I really hope the changes they are making to ranked system will improve the experience.
Roaming is a tough part to get right. In low elo adc will always cry when you roam and the die. Even though they can see you have gone to ward or get chime or are helping jungle, they will always say it is you fault. You need to recognise adc skill level and recognise the state of lane before you go. If adc is doing the general thing of bad positioning, forgetting they also have wards, and overextending may not be best time to roam. If they are competent, go ahead but maybe warn them and ward for them first. Sometimes leaving the adc alone is the best thing you can do for them. Most typical time is when bot lose tower first. Adc will be so far behind they need to catch up with solo cup and gold. There will be slot more you can do macrowise on the rest of the map. Remember support doesn't mean just for adc but support for the team. Just remind the adc to ward, before they overextend, with no vision, get collapsed on, then cry that your not babysitting them.
: > [{quoted}](name=014 Ronen 014,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=ubE4BJLE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T21:49:06.449+0000) > > I play all AP supports, mainly with shields/stun abillities (good sniper), just came from a 1/1/23 soraka game. i disagree with support not being able to decide the outcome of the game because they can, either as a carry or either as a healer, keeping your team alive is the game difference. still on the very same game i had the same story again with my Varus adc playing solo all game, i asked him 6-7 times to join us, the thing is, he spamming blue &quot;help me&quot; pings none stop but when u tell him to go back he just ignores u and continues push up, he did not play with us for most of the game was pushing all the way the enemy base and getting himself killed, at some point i just gave up on him. i did goodjob keeping my team alive so we had more than enough carries to escpae that one. I&#x27;m kinda stuck between S5 and S4 i keep promoting and demoting, promoting and demoting, just cant catch good teams lately, had a lot with rage quitters recently. > > Thank you for the kind response, i hope i hear from more people You can disagree, but a fact is a fact. Supports CANNOT solo carry. Carrying means not relying on anyone. Supports simply do not have the damage to do so, a Brand or something ISN'T a support.
This is all dependent on how you use the word carry. A carry champ is generally a high scaling champ that if survives long enough, farms enough and reaches the higher end of their builds will deal enough damage to carry the team to a win in the late game. Eg. Jinx, master yi. They are not completely independent of everyone because they rely on others to help them through the early game until they are strong enough to takeover the game. To carry a team is to do well enough and have enough of an effect to win the game despite the performance of the team. Any player or champ can do this. A tanky enough amumu that hits every q r and CCS the enemy team for hours can carry. Support examples of non damage dealers are soraka and Sona (especially) keeping the entire team alive when instead they should be dead. If you keep a team of 4 cannon minions alive long enough even that can kill a full build garen. The problem is that in general low elo players only look at least and damage dealt as deciding who the carry in a particular game is as they tend to follow the term carry as "carry champ" and "carry a team"
Jsp (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wa5abi65,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=fru2Ebfm,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T15:28:30.292+0000) > > So, to paraphrase this... > Toxic == Normal human behaviour > Non-Toxic == Emotionless robot/ Sheep > > Is this what you are saying? Because I don&#x27;t think that this is right at all. > I take your point about the OP being 14, but I don&#x27;t think that excuses bad behaviour in public places. People have to learn that actions have consequences, even if you don&#x27;t agree with them. It's different to walk in a store and start calling a person a F####t.. Than having a person harass you in a highly competitive sport and you reacting to it by calling a person a F####T.. It's the context. You're competiting in a team sport. You're already riled up trying your best to win. It's not like you're at complete calm and peace while you're getting harassed.. You're working hard to achieve your goal and a person ruining that is enough to get you angry even if after the game it didn't matter.. It did matter DURING the game. If you don't have any emotional reaction then you're either not even trying to win or you're a robot. Some people have mild emotional reactions that you can suppress and some people have high emotional reactions that you can't suppress. OP is 14. He's a kid in my eyes. I don't know any kid who can suppress their emotions like adults.. And to be honest, it's kind of unhealthy too. The real consequence for one or two bad games would be just a warning to tell this child that you are not allowed to react to abusement in this game. If he would then repeat this bad behaviour, a time out from ranked games would deter from bad behaviour.. If the toxicity repeats, then a temp ban.. And a permanent ban after that.. Not a straight ban from one bad game. OP, a 14 year old child had no warnings.. Nobody explaining to him that what he's doing is wrong.. He just got a ban right away.. Of course the reaction is "i got banned unfairly." cause it came out of nowhere. (On OP's eyes anyways.) I see a toxic player as a repeat offender.. He does not want to win games. He only wants to ruin games for everybody. A toxic player repeats toxicity over and over again.. It's not just one bad game when he got mad.. He picks champs like ex: anivia just to wall teammates so they die. Spam abusive comments in the chat and purposefully feed the enemy team. A non-toxic player may get angry and have a little bark at the toxic player.. But that's just our human emotions. A non-toxic player won't repeat the offending comment in every single game over and over.. When you're getting abused in a ranked game by your teammate.. Holding in that "F you" is like holding in a fart.. You want to hold it in but you can't. Of course there are some people who can. But not all people are the same. Some people care about winning the game more than others.
I've played in competitive sport irl obviously not professional level but you certainly can get punished for dissent and unsportsmanlike conduct. Definitely at high school/secondary school level if you call someone a f****g f****t repeatedly in the game you are getting punished for it and is an easy yellow card. And to be honest at higher level I havent come across anyone abusive to their own team in real life. Yeah people say things like whos got left back, fking push up or get the fk back and defend, but in general it's not abusive. I can't think of a situation where calling someone a f****t is appropriate in any situation. I guess in real life perhaps people act more normal, you know without the safety of anonymity and being nowhere within physical reach of the person you're being abusive to...
ºreamaº (EUW)
: Why the Honor Requirement is completely unfair.
I think most people know that if you flame you risk getting banned. I think one issue with the honour requirement is if you are punished late. As far as I'm aware,correct me if I'm wrong there is a set period of time where you are locked out of gaining honour. This means that reforming and regaining your honour late on in the season is impossible for some and greatly different for others. You could have two different players punished for the exact same thing and they could regain honour and reform in the same exact number of games and time. However if one has it happen in march and the other in October, one gets the reward and the other doesn't, the only difference being the timing of the event.
Kenz0r (EUNE)
: You are kidding right? A normal and decent player would go Custom or SR Blind Pick to try out stuff that may or may not work with some champ, that way he won`t affect others ( except for wasted time). I strongly disagree people trying some crazy non-viable champ into weird roles inside the Ranked Modes since you`re affecting the other players the negative way. I don`t think you tought alot about your reply when you wrote it tbh. If a player doesen`t give a damn about his current rank and doesen`t want to go higher that isn`t giving him the right to make ppl loose a ranked game just so he can try Morgana Jungler foe example. That`s just how i see things.
Yes because Vlad and yasuo bot were never a thing this season. Neither was ezrael jungle. Please read my post and put more thought into what you are actually replying to. I did not state that testing should take place in actual ranked games, but play what works for you. I also completely disagree with making champs off limits to lanes. Because you don't agree with off role champs doesnt make it wrong. Of course most would try them out in normals and customs and I think that's where the testing should take place. But if the strategy works well then I am, and support people who are, playing it in ranked. It's tiring listening to people like you in a lobby who say things like, "brand isn't a proper support" and "ez jungle?", As if their opinion of how to play is the only acceptable one. I certainly hope your not one of these players who tell other people what to play in the lobby and then sulk when they see something they don't like. Maybe think a little bit more about it. No-one should be told you have to play this way. I support innovation, it's unfortunate you have an attitude that wants to stamp it out.
HASHRASH (EUNE)
: When the game is not going in your favor
I hate the ff15 attitude and likewise the "OK now I troll/afk" attitude. I don't see the point in turning a game you can still win into 100% chance of loss. Every game can still be won it just takes teamwork, coordination, and yes sometimes a bit of luck. Chances are, if you wait long enough, the enemy team will tilt anyway. Tilt... the biggest decider in league.
Moenky (EUW)
: 1st : What if someone is being racist to one of the teammates or is getting targetted? Then they want those players out of the game for other players. I don't think asking for reports is bad, I think it can get destracting or annoying but there you have the mute button for. 2nd: I think this is a good suggestion, if its just a report without any context i think it should be invisible and have no impact if there isnt any proof on why he/she reported the player. Best of luck on the rift and have fun! :) {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
I agree perhaps reports to register must have some detail written in them. Would reduce some of the fake reports as I'm guessing many reports actually have nothing or minimal detail written especially the fake ones. I think calling out the issue of racism is fine but don't do it in all chat where the enemy team has no evidence of them doing it (obviously unless the racism is actually in all chat). It's one of my pet peeves about people saying report my jungler for toxicity or x9 veigar for flame or something similar. How can I report for something I haven't seen.
: You do realise honors mean very little in the honor progress ladder. In a basic point system example, playing a game honorably gives you 10 points, non premade honors give 2 points and premade honors give 1 point. Numbers are made up, but it's the same thing. Playing a game honorably is worth so much more than honors. Honors themselves are worth very little. I've played with strictly premades and levelled from honor 0 to honor 3 in about 2 months.
How do they measure having played honourably (and I mean more than just muting all and being neutral)?
Smerk (EUW)
: Yeah, they value refrom and just because of that anyone who got his first account permabanned can freely create second one, and then third and fourth and as many more as he wants without any repercussions from his old accounts' history
Yes that's the current state for banned players. But stating the current policy doesn't disprove other options or suggestions. The double standard lies in the fact that they have someone who had a ban for extreme toxicity. They have allowed him his "account" back (in the sense that he is allowed to play and stream again). Whereas your bog standard run of the mill player starts over completely again. How is he allowed a state of exile followed by an opportunity to redeem himself and regain the status he had before, whereas others are not afforded that? Just of note I am neither a fan or hater of the person and am indifferent to his content. Some I find humorous, some I find doesn't appeal to me.
Smerk (EUW)
: Riot value reform and they monitored Tyler for a long time, banning his accounts from time to time. But he managed to show that he can behave well and so they allowed him to play freely. And it has nothing to do with double standards, if Tyler is not toxic anymore, then they can use him as a great example to show that anyone, even the most toxic man, who is willing enough can reform and play the game without fear of another ban
So as you say, riot value reform. So as you say, after a permanent ban, they monitored him closely, as you say allowing him to play, and as you say saw he managed to behave himself well and so is allowed to play freely. As you say anyone even the most toxic can be willing enough to reform. So how is that at its core so dissimilar to the original suggestion?
Smerk (EUW)
: They did a test in the past where they gave some accounts back, it was a huge failure, many participants managed to get another ban on the very first day after unban and most of them got it in the following weeks. Riot are doing such test again right now on NA server, they reduced permabans to 14 days for some manually chosen accounts and are monitoring them closely. Results aren't known yet. And about Tyler you are completely wrong and have no idea what you are talking about. Tyler didn't get his accounts back, not even a single one. He was allowed to play this game again on new accounts, but his old accounts will remain banned forever
Ok hold up there sweetie, no need to get too passive aggressive on my ass lol. That's fantastic they didn't give any of his old accounts back. Super. So instead they lifted the ban any account that he is seen streaming on ruling they had AND made him a highlight in one of their major events that are streamed to the world. Whether or not he got his accounts back is of little importance compared to the fact that they built him up as an attraction for their show. THAT is where my point lies, as on one hand Riot is obviously anti toxicity, but allowing a public figure known for toxicity on such a stage may be seen as a double standard. If you saw the main point then you, might have known what you were talking about.
Smerk (EUW)
: Well, as a community member I see no reason why should you get this account back. Sorry, but you deserved to lose it in the first place. You can show that you reformed by behaving well on your new account if you still want to play
I don't know after a year may be worth a probation type placement on account where any minor slip up is immeadiate ban again and truly permanent. I mean, riot not only gave back tyler1 his account but gave him centerstage at a recent big event. I know he's "reformed" apparently, but can be seen as mixed messages on flame and if you do it for 1....
: > [{quoted}](name=Llama Bell,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=fPwNIFFK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-15T18:06:05.170+0000) > > Greetings, > > Yes, by playing and being friendly you can. Remember ignore and mute the people that try to trigger you. I see no progress in that regard whatsoever TT Sad that a day is going to ruin my whole season. FeelsBadMan
1/3 does that mean 1 checkpoint away from level 2 or your at 1/3 checkpoints level 0?
: I am afraid you not gonna be able to reach it in time. There is a hard time lock on every checkpoint so even if you would get all 4 honors every game and you would play 20+ games a day you still won't be in time to reach honor level 2. But I have never been honor level 1 so there is a small chance there isn't a hard time lock for reaching honor level 2. But i wouldn't count on it. That's why personally I don't like how this system punishes people way more if they get there penalty just before the end of the season. They should either make it so it doesn't matter when you get your punishment and you always lose your shot at getting your end of season rewards. But that wouldn't be in line with the idea of encouraging people to improve their behavior. Another better option in my opinion would be to give people a period in which they need to improve 2 or 3 months or so. If they show improvement and they reach honor level 2 during that period they will get there end of season rewards.
I've thought that maybe getting the reward skin even if you are below lvl 2 but only being able to use it while you are level 2 or above (or even 3 if earned during a punishment). So players still get the punishment, but have the incentive to improve and stay improved.
be4fraid (EUW)
: Rewards system flawed?
The thought process of "yeah but he did it first" became old when people went past the age of 7. It doesn't matter if another person is trolling you it still counts on what you do.
: Where's the teamplay in a game your own teammates hurt your gameplay? Accepting such risk is not part of a team game. This isn't about not being able to pick your champion because of bans and picks, its about premeditated bans to prevent your teammate to play what he want and thats negative behaviour.
Like I said, that's the risk of playing a game where other people are intrinsic to it. If you do not want to have that risk, a game or mode where other people don't play with you or you play only people you know is more likely to yield what you want every time you play. But I go back to my original point perhaps learning more than one champ will help avoid the problems of your main or favourite being banned. Learning new champs might enrich your experience of what the game has to offer. If not, well that's your choice which you are also welcome to.
: Same for me had a mad german kind a few games ago, flamed me all game long how bad as an Support I am while she had 24cs in 10 Minutes in Plat Ranked, getting threatened that she wants to find me and my family in rl and wants to... , that my mum is a crackw**re and that hes my stepdaddy since no one ever would touch her and that he pays her with bricks so she got something to suck at (made me hard laugh xD)... yea you get the idea from it (so pretty toxic). So i reported her, but tbh i think that person is still playing the game dunno have to look in op.gg, but tbh i´m too lazy, and now the sad part, i dont even care if that person is getting punished for it, because it doesnt change a thing, riot wont care, riot doesnt care, since they have a nice and (not) working system that doesnt care what someone whenever typed in the chat, REASON!!! It was just 1 game, that system doesnt care if someone flamed 1 game out of 1000. That Game is now maybe since 2 hours over and still no message that someone got punished for it. I know I know, not every time person who reports someone gets a message when the person is punished, but here is the problem, if I dont get any feedback that my report did anything to clean up this pile of a mess that is called "Leaguecommunity" how can I trust it? Its months ago that I got the last message that someone got punished by a report I made. Gives me to think why I and even you who reads this is still playing this game anymore? I mean I´ll still play it but one part of me thinks... WHY? and that WHY is getting louder and louder inside of me.
If they had a chat ban then they can still play unfortunately. So it may may be a case of they were punished but unfortunately not as hard as you wanted them to be. I agree that from the sound of it it was very toxic. I think riot need to improve the report feedback system. People want to know what their reports re achieving and some regular more detailed feedback would help appease this frustration.
: Reports in champ select.
The support should have just told you no I'm going to pick lux then you can decide to stay as kalista, change champ or dodge. I think you can take a photo and raise a ticket if you feel it was trolling
FreeGa1 (EUW)
: Toxicity and how it freaks me out
I think this is definitely one area the report system can improve. Letting people know that reports are having an effect I don't think they are allowed to identify individual accounts for data protection reasons but feedback would be great and I mean more than just the occasional instant report box. I feel that a graph or table type feedback would be useful. Eg after a month it could be a table with each row being the report headers i.e afk, verbal abuse, hate speech, etc. Then columns with reports sent, reports effected, reports deemed inappropriate. We could then have feedback to show appropriate action is taking place and it would also serve to educate us better on what is not appropriate to report. This also shouldn't take any extra human manpower to use as it would just be part of the automated report system in place so should be easy( this is just an assumption as I'm not a programmer).
: Litteraly EVERY Ranked game someone tries to enforce other players to report someone
People cry "report" in a lot of games. If it has no basis it's nothing to worry about. Let them report you and watch as nothing happens to you. I think it may slow gaining honour levels but shouldn't lead to a ban type punishment. Crying report a person in itself is a reportable offense. What other options are there to stop people saying report? Remove the report system? I don't think so, so what else? I do think players would feel better to know that appropriate reports areachieving something but how?
Show more

ViralSurvival

Level 175 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion