1234567bla (EUNE)
: ***
Nobody will read and understand that mess of a letter. I suggest crying to ur mommy first, then come back and try again if u got something sensible to write.
Bouwer (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wadafaaak,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=GAHFFoE6,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-09T14:30:07.636+0000) > > But it does make me knowledgable on this topic. Allthough I am ofcourse much smarter than you anyway. > Oops seems its more complicated than your simple mind can imagine after all. You sound quite childish and arrogant for someone who is apparantly an adult and a scientist.
I don't even feel smart arguing with people disagreeing with me here, it feels like being dragged down into a pool of stupidity while continously having to make sense of the obvious. But hey as long as Rito displeases me with its horrible matchmaking algorithms, i'm gonna be here to educate people about it.
: This has nothing to do with computer science. Its pure statistics (basic one at that). Unless you claim to also be a mathematician you have no argument. :)
Algorithms and "using information" about matchmaking, how to make it 50% winrate is computer science. I've had plenty of maths while i studied even if I don't have a degree in pure mathematics. Listen, if you are uneducated and don't have a clue about anything, why do you even post? Can't you leave it to the grown ups? :)
Èclair (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wadafaaak,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=GAHFFoE6,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-09T12:39:22.561+0000) > > Matchmaking algorithms arent as simple as you think They aren't but that doesn't mean they aren't exploitable. Once you have some data on how MMR gain/loss changes you can pretty much read it like an open book. > demotion shield matters little when you get monkeys on your team as soon as you promote anyway. I've been in many circles such as from plat 3 to plat 2 for like 20 times, cause below plat 2 i get normal teams and above plat 2 i get monkeys on team until I demote. No, sorry. If you can't win at least one of 10 matches after you enter new division you shouldn't be there. When you stop using excuses such as "it's system that pushes me down" or "the fault is always on my teammates, never on me" you'll actually see how much you can improve in your own playstyle and mechanic execution. People who can play good have no problems with creating new account and reclaiming their rank for second time.
> [{quoted}](name=Èclair,realm=EUNE,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=GAHFFoE6,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-02-09T13:22:35.483+0000) > > They aren't but that doesn't mean they aren't exploitable. Once you have some data on how MMR gain/loss changes you can pretty much read it like an open book. Nope cause they use mmr independent factors in their matchmaking. Why cant you realize it when i say its not so simple? "One or more players trying an off-position One or more players trying an unfamiliar champion An otherwise fair match in which one lane has an unfair matchup Games can snowball out of control with early game champions or assassins, for example Sometimes, players just have bad games!" in fact they use all the info they have to make matchmaking 50% not just how they want you to think that its simple: "While we know some matches may feel like stomps, we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory using** all the information we have**, because part of what makes League so competitive is getting to face similarly-skilled opponents." > > No, sorry. If you can't win at least one of 10 matches after you enter new division you shouldn't be there. > When you stop using excuses such as "it's system that pushes me down" or "the fault is always on my teammates, never on me" you'll actually see how much you can improve in your own playstyle and mechanic execution. People who can play good have no problems with creating new account and reclaiming their rank for second time. It takes 2 matches to demote a division, but 15 or so for a league. We're talking about division. I've been in high diamond anyway so i know what rito wants you to improve to move up thanks.
xTigax3 (EUW)
: This is wrong, because Riot tries to balance games, as long as you are not outperforming to the point where Riot can't match you to get a 50-50 game you will be stuck at 50%. I myself learnt to feel the pain of it as rushed through silver last season with my constant 75-80% winrate but 9/10 games my teammates were literally apes, while the enemy team appeared like decently thinking human beings. To keep up my winrate I had to not only play against my enemies and find out who was the smartest person on my team, I also had to play against the time. I needed to get to a point strong enough as fast as possible to carry solo or with 1 or at best 2 others in my team, before the enemies reached an item point, where I could not do that anymore. My placements went 9-0 (and then i got a remaked onto me cause my client crashed counting as 2 loses btw cause after it, my winrate was not 90% but in fact 81,8% and then I had to play insanely good to keep that up even tho it was just silver, as winning lane and securing objectives was not enough anymore cause of the "balanced matches matchmaking"
Well said, that's how I have experienced it too the years I've played league. The more i own my opponent laner the worse apes i get on my team.
Tarolock (EUNE)
: calling yourself computer scientist wont make you smart the 50% winrate is the RESULT of the matchmaking, it is NOT forced on you, if you are better than your team/opponent you get higher winrate and tougher opponents, then there will be a point where you are not better than the players you get in your game and your winrate will fall, when it stops around 50% it means you reached your max/your true place, you cant go higher unless you work on your skills at that point, so once again, if you are stuck for 1000 games you are at your best rank that you deserve
> [{quoted}](name=Tarolock,realm=EUNE,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=GAHFFoE6,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-09T13:12:18.062+0000) > > calling yourself computer scientist wont make you smart But it does make me knowledgable on this topic. Allthough I am ofcourse much smarter than you anyway. > > the 50% winrate is the RESULT of the matchmaking, it is NOT forced on you, Matchmaking causes 50% winrate implies that it is forced. Causing is "forcing" sir. > if you are better than your team/opponent you get higher winrate and tougher opponents, then there will be a point where you are not better than the players you get in your game and your winrate will fall, when it stops around 50% it means you reached your max/your true place, you cant go higher unless you work on your skills at that point, so once again, if you are stuck for 1000 games you are at your best rank that you deserve Maybe it isn't that simple is all I'm saying. Some MMR independent factors that rito says play a role in matchmaking are: "One or more players trying an off-position One or more players trying an unfamiliar champion An otherwise fair match in which one lane has an unfair matchup Games can snowball out of control with early game champions or assassins, for example Sometimes, players just have bad games!" Moreover they clearly say that: "While we know some matches may feel like stomps, we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory using** all the information we have**, because part of what makes League so competitive is getting to face similarly-skilled opponents." Oops seems its more complicated than your simple mind can imagine after all. I am happy that I can educate you about what you failed to realize, and that I am smarter than you. Have a good day sir.
Tarolock (EUNE)
: >Unless your skills is two leagues ahead the 50% winrate based on machine learning is gonna keep you stuck for 1000 games before it lets you reach your true league which is a league higher. if you are stuck for 1000 games then your true league is not the higher one...
I'm a computer scientist and I know what i'm talking about. If you want to make a point, how about contribute with something more than baseless statements?
Èclair (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=RoninDefender,realm=EUW,application-id=N9uP9Byj,discussion-id=GAHFFoE6,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-09T07:03:59.440+0000) > > Last night after 8 matches win series I had a very hard/bad game, I wondered about the rival team ranks and when I looked I was shocked. There was a Gold 4 and Silver 2 while my team has only bronze and Iron players, our highest was B2. So I read about the matchmaking system and I found it very very unfair. Then read all of it, not just a single paragraph explaining how it deals with inflated MMR. Ranks do not matter when it comes to in-game matchmaking. They are a visual representation of your standing in the ranking ladder. They do nothing but determine your LP loss/gain and promotions. You should not be talking about divisions when you want to discuss matchmaking. They are irrelevant to the topic at hand. > So If I am winning I have to play higher rank opponents... Ok so this means I am also worthy of their rank... No, it means you have to prove you can play on the level matchmaking puts you into. By this you're earning a lot of LP while losing far less than you would if playing around your average division level. Not only that, players of higher MMR usually can skip divisions without even going into their promos. You should also consider the fact that players you mentioned had low MMR score and were playing around your level despite having higher division. The season just started and players getting matched too high is sometimes a problem. It happens but is corrected within few games. > Lets think about a football team in 3th division of its league. The only thing I know about soccer is that it's nothing like League. This comparison does not work. They aren't even remotely comparable, especially that you're talking about the highest league while comparing it to casual League play. Apples to oranges, man. > The MMR system creates a secret second Rank system where no one can see your success and your visible rank means nothing. No, actually the division system is far more forgiving and transparent. For starters, the old ELO system demotion was working like that: * A player with 1900 ELO belongs to the platinum tier; * A player with 1899 ELO belongs to the gold tier. Funny enough, not that many players enjoyed getting demoted to lower tier because of the one point difference. Meanwhile a player in 2019 has a demotion shield upon entering new division, you cannot decay under certain tier and you usually have some window of failure when reaching the bottom, meaning you can lose few games when on 0LP and not fall to the tier below. Not to mention ELO decay was a thing while nowadays you can leave this game for a year or so and come back with your MMR completely intact _(been there, done that)_. _Bloody brilliant, isn't it? _ And its generally far easy to use. You don't have to scratch your head when game assigns you new number and google it just because you didn't memorize the values assigned to each ELO. You don't have to say _"oh I'm 1 250 ELO player"_, you just say _"I'm a Silver"_. Plus, getting a cool flashy banner representing your standing is far better than getting four signs number. But those are only perks that came with the Division system. The true reason for this change was the fact that **MMR just cannot be visible to the players to prevent exploitation**. If you know the MMR formula which was shown on the game-to-game basis, you know your game. It was quite popular for high ELO players to play as little as possible just because the MMR was not in their favour. You can't have a system based entirely on a number you can't show. > Don't let people have matches across the leagues. (League means that... :) ) This is probably the reason League tiers aren't called "leagues" but "divisions". > You say "we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory" but this is not a way of sports thinking. Then in worlds don't match NA teams with Korean Teams because they never have "a 50 +/-1% chance of victory". Or match Fnatic with a gold ranked team because they are having a losing series... Competitive and casual play are two different beasts that require different approach. Believe me when I say this is for the sake of casual play. You wouldn't want Riot to give you _competitive treatment_. You aren't Faker so don't expect they to treat you like you're going to win the worlds. > As a result, Riot must decide if it is a game or e-sports. Just a friendly reminder - you aren't playing on e-sport level. This is not an e-sport for you. This is a game. > If this is just a computer game then MMR is purely right. But if it is e-sports, we must play according to the division regardless of our win rate. Divisions aren't relevant to the high level e-sport scene. Some niche tournaments you can find on-line do have something called _"fair bracket"_ but I wouldn't call a tourney for 5k RP total an e-sport event _(even tho technically it is)_.
Matchmaking algorithms arent as simple as you think, and a demotion shield matters little when you get monkeys on your team as soon as you promote anyway. I've been in many circles such as from plat 3 to plat 2 for like 20 times, cause below plat 2 i get normal teams and above plat 2 i get monkeys on team until I demote. The consistency of such pattern exactly after promoting or in promos is interesting, it's as if the system thinks it is too many above plat 2 or the division in question and wants to push you down to maintain a healthy distribution of players in different ranks. Not always but often when I promote I get really bad teams with a consistency that doesn't characterize just variance.
: Trying to make a fair match is not fair in Ranked System.
Unless your skills is two leagues ahead the 50% winrate based on machine learning is gonna keep you stuck for 1000 games before it lets you reach your true league which is a league higher. It is pure bullshit, scam and a trick to make you play more than you should to reach your rank. Rito is trolling you, and nobody is intelligent enough to see it because they think it is simple variance, but it is not, it is simple algorithms that are profitable for rito and annoying af for YOU.
qmqp (EUNE)
: Plz Riot
PLZ RITO I DONT WANT MONKEYS ON MY TEAM KTHX.
: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/vToEzl9r-how-that-forced-50-winrate-myth-really-works-detailed-explanation Maybe educate yourself before you make a fool of yourself again
> [{quoted}](name=Player3Th0mas,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=AebIQnOE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-04T18:11:48.597+0000) > > https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/vToEzl9r-how-that-forced-50-winrate-myth-really-works-detailed-explanation > > Maybe educate yourself before you make a fool of yourself again I'm not really interested in your shallow interpretations. Got any source for that or you just made it up? Here's one example of a broader perspective that doesnt necessarily contradict your own philosophy about matchmaking as you presented it: I would claim the possibility that if you team up with monkeys 3 games in a row, it snowballs and you just get stuck in elo hell with monkeys. How? If you get shit MMR, the matchmaker will search for opponents who are lower league but relatively higher mmr than their league. What kind of players does that characterize? That would be smurfs ofcourse or players moving up wards. At the same time you will be teamed up with other players like you, similar league but lower mmr. Then you will obviously get stomped every game. People having a good day will most likely beat people having a bad day even if rank of those having a good day is a bit lower. Perhaps ritos algorithm made by employees who are higher educated than you is more complicated than what you imagine. For example in order to accelerate people towards their ranks, they could team up winning people with others who have positive derivative mmr and those with negative derivative mmr will team up with each other to accelerate towards their ranks. As you see its perfectly possible to setup a team to win or lose even if total mmr is identical. The amount of ways are many, and if they cause people to play overall more matches, rito will profit on it, if they profit on it then WHY won't they do it? Anyway before season end I was dominating everyone in plat 2 as if they were nabs and now that i lost 8 out of 10 matches I still cant win in gold 2. It appears that small variations of MMR alone cannot account for 50% winrate. Last match top lane had 50 cs vs opponent 100 (and gave up all turrets fast), and as every game enemy jungler is everywhere. Ofc I had 60 cs when opponent laner had 30 including some kills. But I think its no coincidence that enemy jungler is always better than mine. You see I work with computer science and I know what the possibilities are in terms of algorithms and it takes basic economical knowledge to understand what may be put in action. If you got something clever to say, please share, but if you're still going to educate me with the wisdom of a child you might as well not bother. > [{quoted}](name=Tenchuu Khan,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=AebIQnOE,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-02-04T18:23:55.176+0000) > > At which point in that article did you interpret this complete nonsense into it? This part? "While we know some matches may feel like stomps, we do try to make sure all teams have a 50 +/-1% chance of victory using all the information we have, because part of what makes League so competitive is getting to face similarly-skilled opponents." Here they claim that they use "all the information they have". This proves how Player3TRh0mas interpretation is a shallow one. Evidently matchmaking is more complicated than MMR alone. It's really frustrating to talk with people who has inferior intelligence, but on the bright side it is at least funny that the longer the discussion goes you will learn that I am always right and everyone else are always wrong ;) Here are some more examples mentioned in the article which rito claims determine matchmaking but are MMR independent factors: One or more players trying an off-position One or more players trying an unfamiliar champion An otherwise fair match in which one lane has an unfair matchup Games can snowball out of control with early game champions or assassins, for example Sometimes, players just have bad games
Yraco (EUW)
: Ranked wins seem random
In case u didnt realize ur impact in the game is smaller than you think, rito algorithm controls it all: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide There's an algorithm working against you trying to make it 50% winrate. ALso if the algorithm thinks you belong to lower elo it will give you elo hell. The algorithm also wont let you move up to your true league unless you give up your life and everything you hold dear and play 1000-2000 games. Enjoy.
: Ranked Games
As you can see in the following link, matchmaking is a sophisticated algorithm to match you up with better enemies and worse teammates if the "system" isnt convinced that you belong in a higher league. Hidden algorithms are there to make ritos job as developer easy, and your life as a gamer a suffering grind hell. :) https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide
: There is No Place Like Elo Hell
The system is designed to put you at a rank where it thinks you belong. Moreover the matchmaking is extremely sophisticated, sophisticated to give every single player 50% winrate. Obviously such pure statistics cannot be based on divisions and leagues alone. That is an illusion. How it really works is if rito thinks you belong 2 or 3 divisions lower, you will have this so called elo hell. Only after that will you have better teams and even up the winrate. If your skill level is about 2 leagues ahead of your own, you may move up relatively fast. However if your skills are just 1 league higher, then the system is designed to make you play 1000-2000 games before you can move up. This is because as rito says the games are designed to give you 50% winrate. If you win too much you will have harder teams. Most importantly if you play 2000 games to reach diamond instead of 300, then rito earns more money because you play more. Welcome to the world where sophisticated coding is meant to make you addicted, angry etc for profit :)
CJXander (EUNE)
: The game just wants to make sure your winrate is @50%, i mean, i had a pretty big winrate, then, out of the blue, the worst teams ever, the biggest flamers and the most afk team mates with PC or internet issuses. It's like they're collecting data and deliberately giving you THE WORST possible if you're winning too much. That's why boosting and smurfing is encouraged. You basically have to wait for a winstreak and avoid playing too much the game.
> [{quoted}](name=CJXander,realm=EUNE,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=u3ErTbRH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-01T09:34:03.653+0000) > > The game just wants to make sure your winrate is @50%, i mean, i had a pretty big winrate, then, out of the blue, the worst teams ever, the biggest flamers and the most afk team mates with PC or internet issuses. > > It's like they're collecting data and deliberately giving you THE WORST possible if you're winning too much. That's why boosting and smurfing is encouraged. > > You basically have to wait for a winstreak and avoid playing too much the game. Yeah exactly how I feel. If i win my lane hard and farm my opponent every game, then I only get a team that feeds even more or teams with afk every game. And its because the game is trying to give me 50% winrate. We don't want 50% winrate, we want to win if we are better than average in our league. in the link below shows some reasons for giving you feeders: An otherwise fair match in which one lane has an unfair matchup Games can snowball out of control with early game champions or assassins, for example Sometimes, players just have bad games! Source: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide
HoR RooneR (EUNE)
: Akalis nerf.
I have an idea. Leave the nerf as it is. While it is fun to play that champ it is not fun for the 5 others playing against it. Another suggestion is to nerf Akali until nobody plays it anymore.
Lleajy (EUW)
: I don't remember having 30+ min queues before the autofill. I recognize it might be a problem in higher tier, but I'm in silver, autofill makes no sense since it's a bloated elo. Why not make the autofill optional, so YOU don't have to sit 30mn, and I get my position. No ? Just pick it in your lane selection.
> [{quoted}](name=Lleajy,realm=EUW,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=50qxKbge,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-06T19:40:32.475+0000) > > I don't remember having 30+ min queues before the autofill. > > I recognize it might be a problem in higher tier, but I'm in silver, autofill makes no sense since it's a bloated elo. > > Why not make the autofill optional, so YOU don't have to sit 30mn, and I get my position. No ? Just pick it in your lane selection. Before autofill you couldnt even select your lane. It was whoever typed their role first gets it.
Garvo (EUW)
: Got Rank after only 3 matches!!!
Actually you can just afk and troll all ur games, ur rank is set, that's what happened!
ΠΞΟΠ (EUW)
: Can't load in to game.
3rd time in a row here
: I'll never play League of Legends game in my life
It is actually a problem that trollers are free to troll and flamers are punished.
: Yes. Telling a 13 year old to kill himself twenty seven times in a fifteen minute match because he "fed", indeed makes you a good player. Damn you Riot, and your foolish policies !
> [{quoted}](name=The Lane Police,realm=EUNE,application-id=NzaqEm3e,discussion-id=Ax8rhU0i,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-03T08:40:37.579+0000) > > Yes. > > Telling a 13 year old to kill himself twenty seven times in a fifteen minute match because he "fed", indeed makes you a good player. > > Damn you Riot, and your foolish policies ! 13 year old kids who feed should be banned before they can even be told to kill themselves xD Feeding is much worse than writing symbols in a chat and smashing keyboard in anger. Nobody takes flames that serious that it is a threat to their mental health. Ok yeah, there's always that one kid who might take flames serious enough to affect his mental health, but then again, there is always that one kid who jumps out of the balcony after seeing harry potter to check if he is a wizard and if he will fly. The 13 year olds who feed however do real damage to this game, since if the grindfest isn't already annoying enough with the variance provided by the 9 other players in your game, its hardly playable with the amount of trollers in every game.
Rioter Comments
: Player behavior in general.
The biggest problem is trollers really. People say EUNE is the most toxic server, but trolling is 10x worse in EUW and has a much more negative effect on enjoying the game. Everytime someone is mad, instead of venting anger in chat they vent anger by doing bad plays on purpose, afk farming, not cooperating with team or player they are mad at etc. I think being strict with chat just makes the anger come out in more destructive ways for the game.
kupuselefes (EUNE)
: New Dark Harvest
It's way too OP. It's no fun when you own and outplay a Diana with dark harvest in lane, and 10 min later she just one combos everyone with dark harvest.
EKKEBlSO (EUW)
: I wish I get permabanned after that game
Maybe just mute all works and makes the game more fun. i'm also tired of letting kids who say "go next" ruin the game after 5 min every game. By the way this "Go next" thing is the worst thign soemone can type. It basically tells everyone they've given up and makes everyone give up. The result is zero team work and feeding. I think it should be most bannable thing to say, since it destroys the game far more than meaningless flames.
lelfgt1 (EUNE)
: Add a Balkan languages in league
Anyone who is too dumb to have learned english should accept the consequences. I'm half Croatian btw.
zedxlegend (EUNE)
: 27-0 btw
He might lose his title for assault after the match. Would it be 26 1 then? :D
Slickety (EUW)
: Am I good enough for plat? Otp
Id expect a plat to have at least 67% winrate in silver. The game changes a lot and ppl do less mistakes, but it depends a lot on your champ and how you play it. I think it's likely that you may be good enough for plat. At least while you climb you will adapt and surely get there. By the way in champ select people are often commenting on other players winrates, but it doesn't really matter as much since they reflect climbing done in lower elos. A year or two ago i reached diamond on main while having negative winrate like 49% most of the time, I just won more in the end and managed to climb by figuring out how to improve my game.
VellyJatt (EUW)
: Help me selecting a champion
The meta doesnt matter at all. The only thing that matters is if you are good with a champion. In platinum zed seems quite strong if you ask me. Just play what you think is fun to play, each champion has different powerspikes and playstyle.
: If you actually read the whole text you’d know that I actually encourage my team that every game is winnable and that they can do it.
If you have bad mmr you get bad teams, but with such a long losing streak many of them were probably winnable if you played differently. Try to figure out where you can improve and what you can do to increase winrate. e.g. play to not die instead of to get kills,focus on cs and objectives and not kills. There are many more concepts in this game one has to master.Even if you win laning phase everytime you can lose every time if you play midgame and endgame worse than everyone else. The garen who solo in endgame is just one of many other reasons why you lose. What are the other more subtle reasons? Good luck :)
: Ranked/ punishment system rework
My tip is don't flame your team and they won't play like monkeys. Enjoy.
Cryptidian (EUNE)
: We're simply not allowed to have bad games, according to a vast majority of the player base
Flames arent as bad as you say the vast majority of the time. Caring about flames is as incompetent as you are in game. Flamers don't know anything about you so don't take it personal.

Wadafaaak

Level 188 (EUW)
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