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Veigar would suit this skin better though.
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That's not a bad idea either
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The argument that 'it is made to annoy/tilt you' would be an argument you can use to remove the mute button as well. The argument that it would take too much effort is debatable. If they can remove eye candy that means that they remove visuals from the game. You can cancle emotes so I don't think they are as set in stone as movement animations for example. I don't see why you can't remove emotes. Maybe not as an ingame toggle but just something you can pick pre-game so it won't load them for you (or remove them all from your files)
Also there are programms that allow you to switch animations (for example always the crit animation on Gragas) so I'm sure it's more flexible than it seems.
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This! If the chat annoys you, you mute the chat. So you should be able to do the same with emotes. As much as they might be part of the game, leaving something in that can annoy you without an option to turn it off, that is just stupid.
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I already do that. I might be a bit sensitive but after playing league for a long time I can pretty much hear the taunts when I see them :/
Also that means switching off voices and I actually like hearing the champ I am playing
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I think the infinite scaling is not worth the cost it has now, but I can see the point you make.
The idea behind the lockon is especially for the laning phase where you can guarantee to do some damage back when a mobile champ trades with you, I think this is better then increasing his numbers to deal with the weak laning.
What a nice and healthy discussion, thanks :)
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Fair points again, I just think the laning is too weak and he is too much of a nichepick, so much that the situation arises very little which is sad for someone like me who likes him. I have 1 suggestion for the middle of the circle and I would like to know your opinion (you make smart and strong points).
New: Tiny doom impending!
People caught in the center of event horizon will recieve the 'Tiny doom!' debuff for 5 seconds. While under the effect of 'Tiny Doom!' Balefull Strike (Q) can now target you, hitting a max of 1 target along the way (so the second hit wil always hit you) and slowing you by 30% for 1 second, getting hit by Balefull Strike removed 'Tiny Doom!' from you.
I think this is a fairly healthy change. A bit better in the lane, a bit better versus mobility and it gives you a chance to hit W when you miss E (though the slow can be changed).
If the slow is too strong, other suggestion: While under the effect of 'Tiny Doom!' you deal 15% less damage to Veigar (numbers can be tweaked).
Very important to note: Balefull strike REMOVES the debuff, so if Veigar want to take less damage from you he cannot fight back using Balefull Strike!
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I can honestly say that you make some very strong points. I am simply still stuck with this issue: The new E CAN still be great and it CAN still function like the old one. The problem that I have with it is that it is a bit too unreliable and because Veigar has a VERY VERY poor answer to mobile champs (not only because of the new E but also because Q is a skillshot). which means that he has like 5 counterpicks or something.
You seem to be a person that knows what he/she is talking about. Do you have any options that his E could get that would make it more reliable? Maybe a different shape, maybe a whole different spell, maybe add something to another spell of his and keep the E this way. I think it should still have the effect of a stun (or maybe a root) to tie in with W, or maybe make it so W can lock on to someone tagged by the new E (whatever it may do). Would love to hear your suggestoins :)
Edit: to be honest I think Q being targetable again would work, but it can't have the current range then because it would be broken as hell but the old Q would make him too vulnerable if you take the new E into account.
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Well but he needs something to get him out of this void. Without the stun his W is useless. Without reliable CC Veigar is pretty much useless since he will just die. Whenever you want to take initiative with your E your opponent will just dodge it using any mobility and you are dead. This is the sad story of Veigar. You are at the mercy of your opponent from the getgo. Not really fun. What else do you suggest to make him a burst mage again? Because I strongly feel like he should be. If there wasn't that much mobility in the game it would be less of a problem but every other release there is even more added to the game.
Edit: To add to you last point about him winning games by picking people: There is plenty of champions that can do that by catching out an opponent. Talon, Zed, Ahri, LB. All of these champs can catch an ADC that is out of position and blow them up. The answer is to walk with a teammate, ward up, don't facecheck and buy QSS/run cleanse. Does wonders and prevents these situations lots of times.
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That bursting a tank stuff was with DFG and when MR itemization was less optimal, not as much the case nowadays.
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Fair enough, how about you turn it into a small wall? Like anivia E?
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There is nothing wrong with building a Veil on an ADC lol....
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Destroying an identity mostly refers to taking away what makes a champion a champion. Veigar without his intant E to engage is an example for this: Veigar support was pretty much there for picking and engaging, now with the delay he can't do that anymore which takes away what made Veigar Veigar, taking support Veigar's identity away. This would also apply to mid but he can at least still stack Q there. Another example (speaking of stacking) is Nasus. If they would remove the stacking from his Q Nasus would not be Nasus anymore.
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Can you like scan this for a full HD wallpaper or something? Would love to have this.
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Then you can't get out of D5. Unless your MMR is the level of platinum 5, then you can demote to platinum 1. Seeing he is gold his MMR must be at max at gold 5 level. Expect him to drop more lol.
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No it's not. But playing stupid crap that will most likely cost you the game pretty much before it even starts is justified to be reported imo (by which I don't mean instantly banned, but a lot of times when people pick stuff like that their behaviour isn't the best (you might be an exception tho) so they should be looked at more). Sorry buy warwick support is plain stupid. ADC mid? That won't just lose you a game in a lot of cases so that is completely normal (back in the day it was even meta).
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FYI The amount of smileys, memes and other stupid things you put at the end of most of your sentences is infuriating.
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You corrected the Q! I am so proud of you! Also great piece of art :D
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The amount of times I just die because it's worth it, reducing my KDA, is beyond countable.
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This always happens with new hyped releases (like assasins). It's just asshole city for at least 5 days and then hopefully it calms down a bit after that.
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Even when things are reality they can still be theories. Gravity and evolution are still theories. I do not know why we still call them theories though. But 'it's called a theory because it isn't proven yet' is wrong. If this is not how you mean your argument sorry I missunderstood you.
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The problem I faced today is that you can't focus him because of his R. I was Jax top (really fed) vs a Gnar and an Ekko Jungle. Ekko was pretty squishy and Gnar went first item randuin. When I focus gnar, I can't kill him in time before Ekko (going full damage ofcourse) kills me and the Ekko R makes him too damn slippery and really really hard to focus (almost impossible). I still decided to focus Ekko and well... Gnar CC + Ekko slippery R killed me (and you know how easy Jax can normally 1v2 when he is fed). When you are in a 2v1 (even against a fed guy) Ekko does not get punished at all for being so squishy. This also counts for teamfights. Being squishy is one of the weaknesses assasins face but Ekko doesn't. His kit does enough damage for lack of R damage not to matter. He is like a super super annoying Zed.
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A: Yes they need mana regen, but all the damage they get now is way better than that since the mana regen the old tree provides was pretty much as good at was 9 points utility does now. B: Don't try and justify having to take 0.33% crit chance on a mage, it's super bad design. I mean I would love it if the utility tree was viable for most mages as well but if I have to choose between either a good utility tree or a good offense tree I'd pick the offense tree anyway.
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That's what I mean. This item pushes people in certain directions. DFG made everyone an assasin, Luden's makes everyone a semi-burst mage.
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It's not a must on every AP but on some it's OP and on others it's sh*t. Maybe it should have a proc cooldown or something. So that a Kata or a Cassio can't proc it 25 times per teamfight.
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A: Caps doesn't work when talking to a game developer, it's more counterproductive.
B: The art team is a different that probably isn't even capable of fixing servers.
C: Since when is it weird for a company to try and make money? They can even use that to fix the servers.
D: If you get so angry about it go and take your toxic *ss to Dota2 pls.
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You mean it's worse then the times were AP mages had to use an entire tree for crap like mana regen because the offense tree turned into the 'AD-Tree' after 9 mastery points and even then every mage had to pick up 0.33% crit chance in it?
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I just don't want my opponent to know it. Just more of a panic indicator for the enemy jungler leading to even more jungle pressure on me as the Veigar player and Veigar already gets enough of that.
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I do think that there should be a balance in there tho. Sometimes I get matched up against people far below me in normals and I just dumpster them, leading to a 20 minute surrender. No fun for me nor for them.
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Yea reducing the effect's delay to 0.25 but still leaving the 0.25 cast time as well (total 0.5) would be fine. Now it is just not hitting most of the time which is bad and frustrating. Now it will be a bit easier to predict movement since now it is so long that predicting movement is more a matter of luck than skill.
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Just a tooltip fix. It already is 0.5 seconds but the walls appear at the start of the cast (0.25 seconds) so the enemy has 0.75 to react.
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I am not saying revert it back. Smaller or a little faster still allows for either more counterplay or less gain from the spell in general. Buffing R again still leaves the problems he has now.
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If I need my E to kill someone I am bad? I don't even.....
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Well at least I enjoyed the old one and hate the new one.
Btw, just trashing Veigar players only makes you sound like an idiot. There are plenty of mages who can oneshot, that was really not Veigar's problem. My point was mostly that Riot said they did not want to push him in another direction while they are obviously doing just that.
For your last point: Gutting a champion is never justified, it's just bollox to suddenly "remove a champion from the game"
His stun was a problem yes, but Veigar himself wasn't broken at all. I think that is proven by simply looking at his stats over the 5 years that he has been in the game. Aside from his E being exploited in 1 patch he had a normal winrate, a fairly low pickrate in soloQ and barely any competitive play. If he would have been so immensely broken in general I'm sure that would not have taken 5 years to figure out.
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As I said in other posts. Just make the circle smaller so he can't catch out an entire team anymore
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I agree that his old stun was OP, but why give the whole champ such a dreadfull overhaul making him bad AND not fun to play? He now gets destroyed by anyone with any type of engage or instant CC (not just assasins) and is mediocre or maybe even bad against others. There is simply no reason at all to play Veigar currently since he isn't even cool to play, he is simply frustrating. I am not here to try and convince riot to bring Veigar back to his 5.3 patch form since well.... it was OP as a support. All I am asking for is revert and then look for other ways to change his E (maybe just a radius nerf or something). They should start from there and not from the state he is in now since that state is being awefull and dull.
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Just a bit more mana regen and range on Q. Pushes him towards dull siege mage who gets outclassed by Lux/Xerath/Ziggs
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Well I do admit that it can be a little silly, but that is mostly due to the size (catching 3 peope and smakking everything on their face which allows for your team to follow and kill all 3). If it's smaller it catches fewer people. makes it a lot more balaced without destroying the spell. I mean Annie can do the same thing, the difference is is that Annie's Tibbers has a smaller radius therefore people prefered Veigar as a support. Solution: Smaller radius, now annie is more preferable as an agressive support with an AoE stun again and maybe Veigar just becomes an alternative when Annie is banned (though people would probably default to Leona then) and I don't see why that would be that much of a problem.
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Well he does feel a tiny little bit less garbage than last patch but he is still crap and (what I hate the most) he just doesn't feel fun anymore. I just miss the old Veigar. The Q can't be used over minions properly (if there are minions on the lane it's tricky to all in after you finally hit that E (or rather your enemie is stupid enough to walk into it) and in fights it gets thrown down and sure some people step in it but a lot of times it's not the person you want to step into it.
Also not fun: He is unrealiable now, even if you are a good Veigar player
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Your first points is right except that Veigar only needs 4 points (people can still dodge W with a dash/flash at 3 points). Aside from that you are right, he had counterplay. I just think that Riot had a fair points that his E was catching too many people for a basic spell. I still defend the point that not changing Veigar except a lower radius on E would have been enough to balance him out. I think the QW lock on would be too much secure damage. Lategame that would be Q > W > (Maybe lich bane) and an ADC/APC would be dead.
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Xorax

Level 30 (EUW)
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