: Because you take basic concepts of matchmaking and try to frame them in a way that fits your agenda. Even though literally everything is speaking against it. That MM tries to get you to 50% WR doesn't mean it tries to "mess with you" or that it tries to give you worse teammates. It actually just tries to find fair matches and your "true" place on the ladder. MM might present you with harder opponents in the process. If you cant win against harder opponents, then it reduces your MMR and matches you with easier ones. And when you are in the 50% WR area, you need to improve your skill to further climb. Pros and Streamers are constantly proving that it is possible to climb the ladder (on season reset and on new created smurf accs). There were and might very well be some problems with matchmaking, but it actually only matters for the top 1% (masters+ elo, see the latest dev blogs about this). But what you are doing is just taking some quotes and strawmanning the hell out of them, that's disingenious. Sure you're entitled to your opinion, as much as im entitled to point out that it is shitty.
By your own logic you cant get promoted beyond maybe one division unless you are a pro. MMR is based on % wins and LP gains and losses on your MMR. In order to get promoted beyond that one division you would have be winning 80 to 90% of your games and as you say MM will do its best to prevent you. As this is acceptable to you, presumably, unlike the vast majority of us, you are a pro.
igamlac (EUW)
: Why do you keep bumping / resurrecting this topic?
PS and still nobody has answered the original question which was "If you win 50% of your games and your MMR is based on % games won and LP gains for a win are based on MMR, how can you ever get higher LP gains in a higher division and therefore promoted beyond maybe one division?
Aezander (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=igamlac,realm=EUW,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=u3ErTbRH,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-03-03T17:42:18.839+0000) > > Many apologies, I didn't realise that there was a rule against replying to comments on my own topic. There's a term when one ressurects a thread, even if it's the OP. If you thought I was sarcastic or ironic because of the first sentence, I apologize. > I disagree entirely with your B). But as neither of us are Riot employees and know for sure then I accept that your opinion is as valid as mine. So, when Riot speaks about "balanced matchmaking" what do you think they mean ? ... This is not about either of us being a Riot employee or not, this is common sence. When you matchmake two teams you do it with the intent of both teams having a theorical equal chance of winning (50-50). Unfortunately, the longer you wait in queue the bigger the chances that the Matchmaking breaks in favour of less waiting in queue time. > "*To the matchmaker, a “fair” match can be loosely defined as a match in which each team has a 50% +/-1% chance of winning. In a perfect match, ten individuals with identical MMRs queue at the same time, each having selected a unique position that they’re well-suited for. That situation is incredibly rare depending on who is queueing at the time, so sometimes teams can have very slight skill differences (on average, no more than 4-5 MMR).*" This is about [Fair Matches](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide) Most of the players don't understand that because this is a game with two outcomes (win or loss) and because the Matchmaker aims to make a "*fair match*" (about 50-50 win chance), then due to the Law of Large Number as you play more and more you will end up with a rough 50% win ratio. But because of how gains and losses of MMR fluctuate that 50% win ratio will most likely land you in the Tier/Division you are supposed to be skill wise.
Why do you keep bumping / resurrecting this topic?
: What? This is a very disingenuous representation of how matchmaking actually works. When you win more games, your MMR increases and you will be matched with ppl with higher MMR, that is true for your own team and for the enemy team. Only in rare corner cases when you win like 30 games straight and experience vaccum queue times of 20 mins and higher, you might get matched with worse players, in an attempt to match the opponent teams MMR. But for like 99.9% of players this is not the case. Its just that it's obviously harder to carry in higher MMRs, because the opponent also knows what to do when ahead and how to close a game... It just comes down to, how well do you play and 1st can you get ahead and can you carry when ahead, or do you "only" win lane, but then just get yourself baited into throwing and flaming your team, instead of consistently working towards winning the game. AND 2nd can you play from behind and make it difficult for your opponent to archieve 1st if you happen to lose lane.
As neither of us are members of the Riot development team then I guess we are both speculating and of course we are all entitled to our own opinion. Not sure why mine is disingenuous and yours isn't though?
Aezander (EUW)
: Since you bumped/resurrected your own topic. I think some key points are being miss-thought in here. A) Do not, and I mean do not, confuse MMR with Tiers/Divisions. When Riot remade the Ranked System and moved from Elo to the Tiers/Hidden MMR system, there have been "inconsistencies" between MMR and Tiers (especially given the pillows and how demotion worked in the Tiers/Divisions). You could be placed in Silver 4 and have a hidden MMR B) The Matchmaker is designed to matchmake team MMR/Elo so that the two teams have a 50-50 chance of winning. C) When you have a system that has two outcomes, kinda like a coints head-or-tails, then that means that theoritically if you play a large enough number of games you'll reach a point of 50% success. Mean that if you've been playing A LOT of games you'll eventually reach a 50% win ratio and your eventual position (whether it's a downwards course or upwards) and stabilize there (until your skill level changes or you give up). The problems in Riot's Matchmaking, and they're unsolvable ones, is that a) they can't predict you game to game performance, and b) can't predict you won't be an idiot and troll/intentionally lose your team the game. I.e. the Matchmaker can't predict people; and given that this is a team-based game it is a very big problem (because people don't understand competitive teamplay for some reason).
Many apologies, I didn't realise that there was a rule against replying to comments on my own topic. I disagree entirely with your B). But as neither of us are Riot employees and know for sure then I accept that your opinion is as valid as mine.
Tarolock (EUNE)
: >So much for intelligent debate. for an intelligent debate you have to be intelligent too... and that starts with seeing that the 50% winrate is not caused by matchmaking, it is the RESULT of it... lets say you are in 5th grade and you are beating 5- graders with ease and with every win you get tougher opponents, now as you go higher and higher at one point you get to 5+ graders and they beat you with ease... your winrate starts to fall and after some fights you get to 50% where you get 5th graders and the chance to beat them is just as much as getting beaten by them => 50% winrate, this is how the mmr system currently works... it DOES NOT forces 50% winrate, that is just the RESULT of it... >New accounts is where Riot make their money and how they boost their (on the face of it, impressive) "number of users" count. and where is the logic in that? they wont get money from number of accounts, they get money from ppl playing the game, and ppl cant play on 2 different accounts at the same time so your logic dies here
Err ….. "caused by" and "the result of" are same thing my friend. Also, you seem to think that the matchmaking software and mmr are the same thing. That's not how I understand it. Maybe my definition of "logic" is different to yours but, unless they pay for a pre-made smurf account (and who do you think makes and sells these?), people with new accounts will not have the champions nor the skins they want and loot is hard to come by in a new account. If they can afford to, they will spend money to get them.
Wadafaaak (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CJXander,realm=EUNE,application-id=Mpd1UjGe,discussion-id=u3ErTbRH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-01T09:34:03.653+0000) > > The game just wants to make sure your winrate is @50%, i mean, i had a pretty big winrate, then, out of the blue, the worst teams ever, the biggest flamers and the most afk team mates with PC or internet issuses. > > It's like they're collecting data and deliberately giving you THE WORST possible if you're winning too much. That's why boosting and smurfing is encouraged. > > You basically have to wait for a winstreak and avoid playing too much the game. Yeah exactly how I feel. If i win my lane hard and farm my opponent every game, then I only get a team that feeds even more or teams with afk every game. And its because the game is trying to give me 50% winrate. We don't want 50% winrate, we want to win if we are better than average in our league. in the link below shows some reasons for giving you feeders: An otherwise fair match in which one lane has an unfair matchup Games can snowball out of control with early game champions or assassins, for example Sometimes, players just have bad games! Source: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide
Maybe it's just in the lower rank games, but every game is now either a very easy win or an easy lose. Very often, all three lanes will win or all three will lose. Playing in either type of game is boring. The matchmaking software is now just too good at picking a team that will definitely win and/or a team that will definitely lose. It's a real shame because the game had so much promise before Riot's total obsession with a 50% win rate for everybody screwed it entirely. I don't want to play in a higher ELO, I just want to play with evenly matched teams so that close and exciting games occur much more frequently and, as it should be, will often be decided by the players who are improving. RIP LoL.
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