: > Also remember that this is only a concept... Riot probably won't bother with it. If they do, I am sure they'll fiddle with the champ and make changes where they think necessary. They're not exactly bound to what we write here. Even if they simply use the lore and change the abilities to fit for an assassin, I'd be happy. I know, and I don't care. I'm just happy to see you make this and share it so I'm trying to contribute. I also love your idea. It would be pretty fun to play and it feels unique to have pets fighting and protecting you. I took my time thinking a lot about it and giving you new ideas Thanks for the clarifications. Time to give you my opinion on the champion : > Think more in terms of Slithice and her mirror images in Dota 2, they all do high critical damage and it is pretty devastating, except, now it's not mirror images but pets. I never played dota so I checked that on youtube. The mirrors of Slithice can attack from a big distance (like Azir soldiers). She also have a stun and can cast her other spell from all of them. So I think that comparing them wouldn't be correct. > The idea is to make him a counter for certain champs Making a champion too situational would make him useless. Giving him the advantage against cloaked enemies while being viable under normal condition would be more healthy. Just like Galio against mages with his magic shield and MR from his W. But he isn't useless against AD. > Cloaked champs would struggle against him, e.g. Akali I'm sorry to disappoint you, but nothing can see Akali. Nothing can see thought her W. It's not that she is invisible, but her W gives a debuff to "true sight" which makes it "obscure sight". So even your champ can't see her. Unless you can detect movement like {{champion:421}} which is different than seeing. Like you can see the silhouette, but you won't be able to auto attack her :/ Akali W is OP XD > You may be right about the return damage though, maybe make it proximity damage like Shyvana? Not at all, I really love that spell, it reminds me of Irelia W. He can use it to protect himself while dealing some damage and I think it works pretty well with him. It's much better than proximity damage that deals damage over time. > If that's not enough, his sled ability could include stun on first attack, though that might make him broken. Would be pretty good to secure his kills. > He is an assassin Making him only rely on basic attacks and crit means that he needs a lot of time (this is relative of course) to kill people. He'll basically be like {{champion:11}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:24}} . This is not an assassin, assassin's needs burst damage to delete people > He'll basically be a chaser who no-one can hide or run from Unfortunately again, you didn't think about it enough. You want him to chase people but did you give him the tools to do it? As a melee basic attacker, he can only do his job if he have some form of stickiness. Just imagine this situation : You go and engage with your E. You'll run fast, reach that annoying Akali and give her a big strong crit basic attack. She then dash over a wall. What do you do next? You're basically useless after that right? Here are a few existing examples of basic attackers : * {{champion:11}} Have AA resets and double auto passive (+ true damage from E and conqueror). A point and click Q to follow anyone anywhere and avoid cc. A huge movement speed ult that ignore slows. You can't run away from this guy and the moment he reach you, he can do a lot of AA with the resets and everything. You wanna flash? He will Q. He also have damage reduction from W. * {{champion:23}} Have a big dash that can go over walls. Can slow people and can become immortal. * {{champion:24}} Can jump over people, wards and everything you want. He also have a stun and can block AAs. As you can see, those guys have the tools to actually chase people, but your champion can't chase anyone with that kit :/ > I hear you on early phase damage... Any suggestions on how to remedy it? I appreciate your input and it could only improve the concept if more people think it over. I'll give you some suggestions. Feel free to take anything you like and throw what you don't like or discuss something if it feels interesting to you. I gave them numbers to make discussions easier. **1/ **For his lore. How about making him someone that tamed spirit wolfs of the frejlord (like the ashe bird) instead of true wolves. It would fit more with the frejlord and make him more epic. The fact of them being "spirits" (like the darius god king skin) will be more logical with the E I'm gonna propose. **2/** Passive : Same, but make sure to give it a small range so it's not overpowered. Or, you can see everyone on a small range and can sense people like Rek'sai in a medium range. **3/** Another proposition for the Passive Since the ulti I proposed will have the scent part : Feral frenzy, you wolves gets frenzy when they smell a targets blood. The spirit wolves attacks deals bonus damage and deal grievous wounds when attacking a lot target. Very good for finishing people and with the wolves thematic. **4/** Q The dogs of war: Active : Order his wolves to attack a target .. Kha'ziks Q range maybe?? Or maybe Elise Spider form Q range since her spider pets remind me a lot of him???? Good for trading in lanes. It also deals damage to people you fight and have an AA reset (since it makes the wolves attack again after a normal AA). an AA (+wolves attack)+ Q reset on a low person means his death thanks to the passive. **5/** W : Passive : Some spirit wolves will follow you permanently. They will attack any target you basic attack or use your Q on. Your wolves grow stronger as you level up this spell (you can start with baby wolves and they grow bigger and scarier). The purpose of this spell is to give the wolves and passively increase your damage trough them instead of building crit yourself. You can just make them stronger and go lethality like a real assassin. Maybe start with 1 wolf at lvl 1, gain a second 1 at lvl 3 of the spell and a third wolf when you max it. **6/** E Brother wolf : Active : A loyal spirit wolf sacrifice himself for you. You will lose one of your permanent wolves (so you'll deal less damage) but you'll block a spell. Have a very short cooldown of 0.5 and can be used twice max. (so you can't have less than 1 wolf available for Q). This spell is pretty useful for survivability but you may prefer to take some damage to keep your wolves (and be able to deal more damage). If used 2 times, you'll have to wait for your wolves to come back before using it again so it's an indirect limit to it. **7/** R Hunters : Passive : Your wolves attacks and Q mark the enemies as preys to get ready for the hunt. Active : With the blessing of the spirit wolves, you howl and call your inner wolf. You turn into a wolf and chase one target marked as a prey with your wolves companions still available and deals tons of damage + "scent" when reaching them. Scent : For a short period, you gain true sight of that target and a burst of movement speed when running toward them. This is a new version of your E. It works like the second part of akali E (you can follow a marked target anywhere across the map) and it should sound scary like Rek'sai ulti (with the howl and big dash). I feel that this is pretty balanced since he needs to get close and touch the target first to mark them (he is melee). He also can't just run to them and ignore all the enemy spells with his E since it's gonna reduce the ulti damage (depends on how many wolf will help you in the chase). So you need to play it smart as an assassin while having huge chase potential, can see invisible units or people in bushes and keeping your wolf tamer thematic. With this build, you are squishy but have tools to survive and chase people down. Your AA + Q reset will deal a lot of damage to be able to trade in lane. But you are still weak against poke and ranged champs. You can build lethality and real damage instead of crit. I hope you like the propositions and they fit what you were expecting. I tried to make a kit that really fits with the wolves and hunter thematic while making him an assassin. I tried to keep the spirit of your kit (I know I changed a lot).
Hi Doom emissary, Good to hear from you again. Thanks for your input. I had a look at your comments and suggestions and I'll answer them in order. Before I do, I have finally thought of a name for the champ. His real name is unknown but he has earned the nickname "Elrulfr" from the Freljordians, which literally means "old/elder wolf" (got the idea from Old Norse). Freljordians call him by this name, since he often trades animal pelts and elk-horn with them. He has been doing it a long time. They have come to know him and respect his skill as a hunter. The meat he keeps for himself and his pack. His real name is in a completely different tongue that was spoken by his people, which most Freljordians do not even understand (resembling Native American). 1) Lore - Using spirit wolves might lean towards Udyr (especially Spirit Guard Udyr) channeling animal spirits. While the idea would fit in perfectly with a Native American shaman there is that little detail of overlapping lore. One example that left fans a little peeved was when Nautilus' lore was changed to accommodate Pyke, since their origin stories would have been similar. It could certainly upset fans. It is interesting that you mention god king Darius, I actually had the wolves in the Darius "Fear" cinematic in mind, with their scary red eyes, making them seem all the more untamable. I thought a little on how to give more detail to his lore. Elrulfr's tribe was decimated when he was already past his prime and he was forced to leave the Southern Freljord and trek North, where the icy wastes would cover his tracks from any pursuer's from the enemy tribe. When he reaches the Northern Freljord he is confronted by a pack of wolves in similar manner (not inconceivable that wolves often try to pick off lone wanderers), no knows how he survived the ordeal but he did and even managed to tame the pack with the secrets that he had learned from his tribe. He dares not share these secrets with another for fear that this gift is misused and therefore chooses to live alone with his companions. He not only survives in his new home but trades with both the Avarosan and the Winter's Claw, not caring for their feuds and tribal strife. He has lost much to tribal strife and has vowed never to get involved again. His only concern is for his loyal companions and the growing evil that he senses in the Frostguard citadel, which threatens to overturn the balance of nature in the Freljord. 2) P Passive (Scent), making the "scent" ability similar to Rek'sai is an awesome idea. I like it. Instead of feel or sense, it would simply be smell, but same principle and gameplay mechanics. This ability can be used to lock on his R. Nearby pet wolves summoned by Q also deal extra damage when they are near the target. 3) This ability is essentially included with P and R. 4) Q Active. (I have switched Q and W back, I'll explain with R) "Train". The ability which Elrulfr uses to summon his pets (the specifics of the limit of pets that he can summon must still be determined. I'd like your input on this. They won't die off over time but only die through damage. Re-summoning a wolf after the pet limit cap will automatically kill off the wolf with the lowest health and replace it with the newcomer. 5) W (Hunters) Passive. Elrulfr gains base attack (with his knife) and his wolves gain health and base attack as he levels up. Slight adaptation but much the same as you suggested (Elrulfr's extra damage is to make up for the loss of potential damage dealing from your proposed Q). 6) E (Brother wolf) Same principle that you propose but without sacrificing a wolf, the wolves still protect you from incoming damage or spells for a short duration, but not deal as much damage because they are in defensive stance. The ability only works if you have a wolves available. 7) R (The dogs of war) - I like where you are going, but unfortunately the idea of the champ transforming into a large wolf has already been used for Lycan in both Dota and Dota 2. People will just reckon, "oh, Riot has just copied another game", even if you thought of it without knowing about Lycan. It is important to make the champ unique. You did however give me an excellent idea. Technically Yi is categorized as an assassin. Yi's R is his chase ability right? Four wolves are unleashed and have high movement speed, damage and health, Elrulfr remains behind and becomes untargetable, but the wolves can be killed. The wolves' attack increases even more if the target's back is turned. The target can either try to run or fight back. If the wolves are killed, Elrulfr becomes targetable again. This ability would need a decent cooldown to make the game fair to other players (But nothing stops you from building him some reduced cooldown right? - evil grin :> ) Let me know what you think of the changes. P.S. I haven't played Dota 2 for a long time. I basically quit when I started playing League. As it turns out, Naga Siren a.k.a Slithice used to have a passive increase of her crit damage for her and her mirror images in Dota 1 (all base attack melee) I used to jungle the crud out of people back then after increasing her mirror images and her already high crit with certain builds. The ability was nerfed in Dota 2, to work only when certain abilites were triggered (from range as you said), even if her base attack is still melee. Later, they removed her crit strike altogether and replaced it with another ability, which seriously enraged a lot of players. I only found out about this last bit after reading it today. Apparently it has been like this for a while. She was pretty devastating before they messed with the recipe. Anyway, bon voyage to high and frequent crit damage, because it's bound to get nerfed anyway. All of the best Hope to hear from you soon
: I'm specifically talking about the laning phase, crit chance early on isn't that strong and in the early game, you won't have your ulti and will only using once or twice after reaching level 6. I mean, if I understood everything right, his only way to damage people is to walk out to them and AA them (except for his ult of course). Isn't that a bit rough? > He will also be good against champs like Pyke and Twitch but poor against champs like Miss Fortune. Wait a second, is this an a marksman? Designed to be played in botlane? > P- "Scent". All cloaked champs (brush or invisible) are visible to him within his field of vision because of his wolves' sense of smell. The passive feels too strong to be honest. Just being able to see everyone near you while making tons of spells and bushes useless
Nope, not a marksman. Think more in terms of Slithice and her mirror images in Dota 2, they all do high critical damage and it is pretty devastating, except, now it's not mirror images but pets. Those were just examples. Cloaked champs would struggle against him, e.g. Akali. Burst champs who fight in the open would do well. The idea is to make him a counter for certain champs. That is also why I don't want to make his abilities too powerful in terms of damage, otherwise he would fill this niche too well. His build will determine his worth. Don't want to make it too easy. Also, nothing prohibits him from using his base attack while he casts Q. I hear you on early phase damage... Any suggestions on how to remedy it? I appreciate your input and it could only improve the concept if more people think it over. Also remember that this is only a concept... Riot probably won't bother with it. If they do, I am sure they'll fiddle with the champ and make changes where they think necessary. They're not exactly bound to what we write here. Even if they simply use the lore and change the abilities to fit for an assassin, I'd be happy.
KyraHahah (EUNE)
: Sounds nice to me! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: Is it just me or does he have no real damage ability except for his ultimate? His Q is the only thing that he can use to deal damage but others need to give him melee attacks for it to work. His kit and lore (taming wolves) seems more like a bruiser wanting to do longer fights (crit chances) than someone who will assassinate you in an instant using his spells
You may be right about the return damage though, maybe make it proximity damage like Shyvana?
: Is it just me or does he have no real damage ability except for his ultimate? His Q is the only thing that he can use to deal damage but others need to give him melee attacks for it to work. His kit and lore (taming wolves) seems more like a bruiser wanting to do longer fights (crit chances) than someone who will assassinate you in an instant using his spells
His W passive will make up for it. Remember, stacking crit for him AND his pets. Almost the same principle as Vayne's silver bolts but different. His R is also damage ability. He will also be good against champs like Pyke and Twitch but poor against champs like Miss Fortune. He'll basically be a chaser who no-one can hide or run from. Just to mix things up. If that's not enough, his sled ability could include stun on first attack, though that might make him broken.
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