: Since when do people have to pay for an achievement system.
It’s not an achiements system... it’s a stat tracking system... and in mobas like league typically you do have to pay for stat trackers.
: Yea no he feels like shit if you go against any tanks After laning phase he deals no damage he is just a moving stun. Against other champs even his empored abilities feel bad . Personally I feel like he IS the old pantheons damage but with much more skill needed which isnt worth at all. I am very good with morde darius nd rene and other champs like garen who can tank and deal damage. Even with some assasins like evelyn and zed But pantheon feels like a failure. I used to love the theme of the champ and who he was but playing ingame just ruined the champ for me and left a bad taste in my mouth, WELP BACK TO PLAYING JUGGERNAUTS AND TANKS.
Well yeah he’s a burst champion, tanks are built to beat burst champions... he’s much better vs squishy targets. And his empowered abilities aren’t bad persay, you’ve just gotta use them right... W when combined with some runes is amazing (PTA) while Q deals good damage (don’t forget to tap Q, and you can use it to cancel the downswing of your auto attack)... E is shit tbh but that’s just cause you want to deactivate immediately rather tha; use the full duration. He’s gotten a lot more flexible, he can approach fights in new ways... and yeah his damage isn’t much better than old pantheon but given he’s got much better defencive options now it evens out.
: It seems clear that you have not encountered Pantheon nor played him at all. Pantheon is really weak and I don't know where you get your information from please tell me how you acquire your information.
I’ve been trailing him in custom games and practice mode, as well as watched a lot of pbe footage and played him myself (mainly jungle). Let me break down everything I’ve found Firstly runes... conquerer is bad, he’s a burst champion not dps by the time he stacks up he has already used everything... I’ve found PTA to give more damage when combined with the empowered W. Secondly passive... Q is decent, W is the outright best, E is shit. Every time you’ve got your passive and W up you wanna use that, then Q failing that, never bother with E. Thirdly the Q... every pantheon I’ve seen charges it every time to harass in lane... this lowers damage considerably. A tap Q doesn’t get reduced by hitting minions, is more reliable to hit, has enough range to suffice (575, old pantheon Q was 600), and half’s the cooldown. Basically by tapping Q you get to do almost the exact same type of poke old pantheon was capable of. Charged Q is only good in seige situations mid to late game or as an execute, don’t bother using it anywhere else. W is the same,but the empowered W is godlike. 3 instant auto attacks means that on hit effects are pretty decent, though as a caster he is limited. Still this is what makes PTA so good, instant damage and a damage amp on the rest of the combo. E is better thought of as fiora parry... it can block any damage ability so identify what ability you want to block against your opponent and use it reactively to block it, then immediately reactivate. Every pantheon I’ve seen keeps it going the full duration and that limits damage (that clip you showed he kept it going for the full duration, where as reactivating it would have immediately killed amumu), only use it for as long as you outright need to. Ult is very similar but you’ve now gotta position where you are before the jump first... do it right and it’s increadibly difficult to dodge. The combo is empowered W, another auto after the empowered one to get your empowered ability back, tap Q, then use E to disengage and block retaliation. ___ I’m fine with people thinking he’s weak, I get to play him more... but everyone is playin him so wrong and then confused why they don’t deal damage... just using the tap Q more would make them get a massive increase in damage output.
: Pantheons Rework -> Literal Dumpster
Pantheon went from being very easy to pretty difficult... so a drop in win rate is fully expected (even still 46% for a difficult new champion really ain’t bad). Builds are likely changing yet people are still going old pantheon, runes imo are suboptimal (I generally don’t think conquerer is good on him), and how we use the abilities needs work (every pantheon I’ve seen charges Q every time, that’s bad... tap Q 90% of the time and save the charge Q to execute people). People are also really underestimating his empowered W... generally it’s stupidly powerful if you play around that rather than the Q (PTA, electrocute, hell once I get the chance to test it I reckon HoB for 6 autos during the stun would be good). > For a comic relief I've decided to provide a twitch clip which demonstrates his E damage in a lvl 15 situation up above. His E is defencive not offensive... it’s meant to deal no damage (actually think riot should remove the damage just so people can better learn it)... idea is that you block what you want to block then cancel it to get back to hitting... keeping it going for the full duration most of the time wastes damage and you should never empower it. EDIT: don’t forget in that clip he is against an amumu, who has a passive which reduces physical damage by a flat amount... physical DoTs are pretty pathetic against him generally
: Garen is getting tons of balance fixes and bug fixes now.
I don’t think it had anything to do with pro play... Riot got the number one garen player in the world to come into their HQ and they worked on this together, and given garen was only played a few weeks ago and this would have to been organised much before this it’s prob just coincidence
Kravixman (EUNE)
: To be honest I do not agree with you even at all sir, but this conversation is becoming very tiresome as we throw more and more and longer arguments and in the end it won't bring anything, because we both are not Riot balance team employes. :D TL;DR 4th and 5th level could use nerfs, but her first 3 levels are OVERNERFED horribly now. You cat hater, meow.{{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}} Now i can say I hate this community even more, because everyone fights like enraged Zerg broodmother to keep my beloved support down, while other mainstream supports are ofc. visibly better.
It’s never had anything to do with which champion is better... yuumi is just outright antifun to have to deal with, she brings too much and it’s too much of a chore trying to stop her (only way to stop her is to kill her adc, which a good yuumi will make near impossible). So I do stand by what I’ve said, yuumi is fully deserving of the nerfs she got abd I’d say she needs some on her heal as well... then if she’s struggling she can get buffs in other areas of her kit which are less toxic.
: All he needs is E damage buff and W to be ad ratio.
E shouldn’t get a damage buff... don’t forget that it’s invunerability, if he could deal good damage while invulnerable it’d be broken. Right now he has to choose between defence and offence as it should be. If he needs more damage it should go onto the bits tha5 alrwady have damage (Q and empowered W autos mainly)... though personally I think it’s more a skill and build issue. I hope Riot dint buff him yet, let us learn him first... cause I’m enjoying him and didn’t have any issue with damage (felt very similar to before), I’d rather not have Riot mindlessly buff him just for it to turn out he doesn’t need it and he becomes broken...
: Ill accept the r thing, but still q,e need revert asap those things are so useless, q deals 20 dmg and u need scope to hit it
Gotta be good at them Q when you tap cast it (which apparently no one tries to do for some reason) does good damage (isn’t affected by the reduction after hitting one target), is easy to land as its instant, good range (575, panth old Q was 600 range), and halfs the cooldown meaning impressive harass. Hold Q and it gains an execute so you use it after they’ve gotten lower than 25% as the finishing blow (will kill most squishies from 25%). E is directional invunerablility... you wanna use it like fiora parry to block a big damage ability (can block true damage as well) activate it reactively and deactivate it straight away to get the damage back. You can also use it to buffer cc (just before you get hit by cc activate it to prevent them from capatilising on the cc). It can also block tower shots, so your team can dive while you tank tower similar to old pantheon. ___ Like I said pantheon now takes skill... when you are good at him and understand when charge Q, what empowered ability to use (hint W then Q if W is on cooldown), how long to keep the E going, and how and where to aim the ult then he’s actually pretty good, nice damage (a little bit less than old panth very early, but spikes harder at 6-9) abd can do pretty much everything old panth could and more. He’s also new, builds and runes are still up in the air (for example everyone uses conquerer on him, though there’s a good chance PTA is infinitely better for him).
: no lol, ult is same it just feels new cuz of shiny effects, and old pantheon required skill too, not this garbage thing, they salughtered my spartan friend..
Have you actually played it... ult is very different. The way the ult works now is that it’s a rectangle AoE not a circle, and it starts in the direction you come from. Before in ganks you stuck it behind them and hoped for the best but realistically you ain’t landing the damage, now if you aim it right you can cover an entire lane with it meaning you can actually get the damage from the R in ganks which feels so much better. And old pantheon really didn’t... besides ult placement it’s all really easy. This is pantheon as he should be... your not getting the old one back sooner you accept that and move on the better
: REVERT PANTHEON
It’s actually pretty good... jungle pantheon feels so much better to use (bit weaker in the early clear but my god the ult ganks feel so much better)... Thing is that pantheon is no longer brainless, he takes skill... so he’s gonna feel a bit worse right now as we get used to him but he’s so much better once you get a hang of him (tip try PTA not conquerer... much better damage)
Kravixman (EUNE)
: Tresh ALWAYS jumps inside Team fights and cast his R and then flail multiple enemies around with his AoE, and this is usually a lot of damage. And don't worst-tank me here because Yuumi is the squishiest supports and if her ADC dies, she dies with him in 90% of cases. Also, Multi-target lock down? he's a CC nightmare with his Ultimate and AoE. And your point? when almost every blitz goes full AP or half-tank/half-AP? Even as Half-Tank his ratios are very favourable and enough to burst squishy ADC/APC. Carefull? a champion with really nice set of escape abilities? you know who must be carefull to survive? Soraka? Sona? but for sure not Pyke that can fail laning phase and then KS 2-3 times and be another Support-DPS in team. **Slow** - While I don't mind slow nerf (both duration and strenght), 1 slow and 1 snare from Ultimate is nothing to be so freaked out like all here says, other supports also have slows, snares and most of them have 2 or 3 CC. **Damage** - Here is where I draw the line, eigher nerf the damage but leave old CDs, or nerf CDs with previous damage, nerfing BOTH so badly and especially in early game where sometimes my ADC had to ask me if im here becase everything takes so long to recharge on her. Her Q in current state is overnerfed comapred to poke abilities of other supports, and I think that damage nerf should be halved and CDs reverted, while I agree with slow nerf kinda (to much at start, not enough at end).
> Tresh ALWAYS jumps inside Team fights and cast his R and then flail multiple enemies around with his AoE, and this is usually a lot of damage. And don't worst-tank me here because Yuumi is the squishiest supports and if her ADC dies, she dies with him in 90% of cases. Also, Multi-target lock down? he's a CC nightmare with his Ultimate and AoE. He’s not that good at teamfighting though compared to other tank supports... think about it all of the others have hard cc, the only AoE hard cc thresh has is a knock back. Thresh is great at picking champions off, not good at teamfighting... his cc tends to be single target focused not AoE. And that bit about tank support had nothing to do with yuumi... tank supports are the tanks who go support... I’m comparing thresh to them... yuumi is an enchanter and should be compared to other enchanters not tanks. > And your point? when almost every blitz goes full AP or half-tank/half-AP? Even as Half-Tank his ratios are very favourable and enough to burst squishy ADC/APC. His ratios aren’t that good, he has a grand total of 2 of them... ap blitz is a cheese pick which requires snowballing at best, the enemy team being bad at worst... and it’s no more scary that any other blitz... by the time it can one shot he should be pulling people into his team to be killed. He’s also much squishier like that and even worse at teamfighting than usual... engaging on him usually works. > Carefull? a champion with really nice set of escape abilities? you know who must be carefull to survive? Soraka? Sona? but for sure not Pyke that can fail laning phase and then KS 2-3 times and be another Support-DPS in team. Except he doesn’t... that’s the thing about pyke, yeah he has a dash and a invisibility... but most of his damage and cc is in the dash so he has to use it offensively, and his invis is camouflage so its unrealiable as a defencive tool... not to mention good chance he used to it get close to you. So while he’s got a lot of escape tools realistically he has to use them offensively to do anything so if he messes up he’s stuck there. And one good bit of cc and pyke dies he’s increadibly squishy and melee. Yeah soraka and Sona need to be careful but so does pyke, even more so cause he has to be in melee while those ones get to stay out of harms way. > Slow - While I don't mind slow nerf (both duration and strenght), 1 slow and 1 snare from Ultimate is nothing to be so freaked out like all here says, other supports also have slows, snares and most of them have 2 or 3 CC. The slow was never the issue, though it was stupidly powerful for what equates to a point and click slow... it’s wither levels of power. > Damage - Here is where I draw the line, eigher nerf the damage but leave old CDs, or nerf CDs with previous damage, nerfing BOTH so badly and especially in early game where sometimes my ADC had to ask me if im here becase everything takes so long to recharge on her. But that’s the thing... it’s free damage. The enemies don’t get to retaliate against her as yuumi gets to be untargetable, and as you direct it then it’s basically unavoidable in most situations... it shouldn’t be extremely damaging and it shouldn’t be spammable... zone control should be something the support has to put themselves at risk to achieve, yuumi doesn’t. > Her Q in current state is overnerfed comapred to poke abilities of other supports, and I think that damage nerf should be halved and CDs reverted, while I agree with slow nerf kinda (to much at start, not enough at end). Not in the slightest... all current nerfs should stay, as well as some nerfs to her E... then if she needs them she can be compensated in other areas instead... she wasn’t healthy with those levels of damage, sustain, and safety... so increasing power elsewhere would be better (perhaps moving power to the passive, adding damage and better shield where yuumi needs to put herself at risk to use).
uk Orca (EUW)
: Do any of you have an unlucky champion?
While I haven’t played him in a while {{champion:24}} ... no matter what the game always seems to go horribly if I try to play him... but I haven’t done so in a while so don’t know if I: still cursed or not
Kravixman (EUNE)
: Like any other support currently? Tresh rekting whole team fights? Blitz doing 100 to 0 in 1 combo with most enemies? Pyke doing 3-4 kills with R? Why people hate her 1 ability so much?
No other support is doing this. Thresh isn’t a teamfight champion, he’s actually one of the worst tank supports as his ult isn’t a big teamfight ult and he lacks multi target lock down. Blitz can’t kill anyone unless he goes full ap, at which point he’s useless if he misses Q (well even Tank blitz is useless if he misses pull) Pyke is pyke, he’s gotta play really carefully to actually survive fights and you can punish him by going in on him instead. Yuumi isn’t like that... she’s got cc, poke, heals, shields, damage... pretty much everything a support could ever want, does a lot of these things the best out of all supports (among the best in damage and healing), all while being completely untargetable meaning you can’t even focus her to prevent the healing like you can a soraka. Yuumi shouldn’t work like this... she is safe and reliable, so her damage and healing should reflect this and be at the lower end of the table. With her current state it’s just completely anti fun playing against her.
: Nobody wants to play support champions, that's why your support sux and enemy Youumi SEEMS to be better. To get good supports, stop nefing support champions blindly. Youumi countered easy. Just buy Soraka its cheapest champ in whole game.
That’s got nothing to do with it... nothing at all. Popularity of support does not change the fact that yuumi brings one of the highest amounts of unavoidable damage in the support role as well as the highest amount of healing... all while being untargetable... that shouldn’t be thing... Yuumi needs to either loose her healing or her damage to be healthy, no champion can have both. And it’s got nothing to do with counters either... you shouldn’t have to play particular champions for a champion to be healthy. ___ I’m not saying she’s broken, but she is unhealthy in her current state... it’s just plain anti fun to play against a champion that can poke you, heal their allies to full, shield them, and also be completely immune to retaliation.
: It is funny how Youumi is nerfed mostly because of her slow, while Zilean has same slowing and never nerfed.
She ain’t nerfed cause of her slow... she’s nerfed because of her damage and healing is stupid with limited counter play... at least with zilean you can jump on him to kill or force out his ult.
Mártir (EUW)
: Yuumi is unplayable
Honestly she’s still really frustrating to deal with and fully deserves the nerfs... she requires a good player to play and a good adc to function right but a good yuumi can turn most champions bear immortal while dealing stupid damage for a support.
: if you are sure about that, so be it. but mark my words, this is going to get worse real fast
Nah, I highly doubt it’s gonna get worse... it’s stayed as optional consumerables for 10 years and it’s worked out great for Riot, they’ve got no reason to risk anything.
: Bot lane discussion: What kind of supports do adc players want in low elo?
Low elo it doesn’t really matter, your gonna do a hell of a lot better playing something you can play than trying to synergies with your laner... if your good enough with a champion then that’s gonna give you the best chance at victory regardless of what your ally wants. And people don’t like supports like Zyra cause they either feed or take all the kills, aka bad ones give the lot a bad name
1000 AP (EUW)
: Hextech is why people i know stoped enjoying tft ! NERF HEXTECH
The game is a game of hard counters, everything hard counters something, and everything has a hard counter. Gunslinger comps where overpowered because there wasn’t good counterplay, now there is. And you’ve just gotta spread out... it’s an AoE at the beginning so if you’ve got items on people don’t stick them next to each other... or counter with a comp that doesn’t need items like glacial
: The line isn't here, true, but if we keep eating up everything they give us and let them do whatever they want, we will cross that line 3 times before we notice. Look at how they are behaving, they aren't crossing the line because they are TESTING us. they want to see how stupid we are, how much are we going to buy "because it's a free game" and after the prestige skins i'm pretty sure they know how stupid players are. If we don't tell them "it's enough, fix the game if you want more money" we will end up like apex legends (linking angry joe because it's the first one i found, there are other people covering this, just look it up) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9q5lTHBe5k
We won’t cross the line without knowing... the line is very obvious. So long as payments stay optional and purely cosmetic they haven’t crossed the line, as soon as payments become forced or affect the game itself then that’s the line... and it’s really obvious when a game crosses that line just go play any mobile game and you will notice within the first 30 mins... at that point league dies. Gamers have fought back against this kinds of things before, remember battlefront 2... we managed to beat EA in these kinds of things... once a game crosses the line it’s doomed and developers are aware of this... and riot have never even gone near the line. This isn’t riot testing what they can get away with, seeing how stupid we are, it’s seeing what works and what doesn’t in a free to play game.... And think about it, Riot tend to upgrade their stuff a lot, getting new tech and improving systems... them getting more money tends to result in more content for league as well as future games from riot... it’s not like it’s wasted money. > and after the prestige skins i'm pretty sure they know how stupid players are. Mate this isn’t new information... it’s a really well known fact how much people are willing to pay for rare stuff. Do you remember the skin black market, where the limited skins where being sold by other people through codes... some of those skins went for millions of dollars (not joking black alistar was being sold for 1.5 million and people where buying it)... prestige skins are nothing compared to the shit people are willing to do for rarity.
: First eveline didn't had perma stealth. And back then every invisible champion was like shaco now. You couldn't see him.
It was eve though wasnt it... she had near perminent invis and wasn’t detected by being close to someone, so she’d stack sunfire and burn people to death.
NowiFate (EUW)
: Pantheon has been deleted...
The idea of a rework is to remove an outdated kit not add a new one in... so yes the entire point was to delete pantheon and keeping him and adding this one in would accomplish nothing. Pantheon was extremely anti fun thanks to his play patterns, and his point and click nature made him extremely linear and uninteractive. Now he is much better. I get losing your main, Ive gone through the exact same thing... but it’s better to move on then get caught up on it, he ain’t coming back faster you accept that the better it is for you.
: He got a VU only a few years ago, there are other champions in more need of a VU than Udyr.
He’s never gotten a VU... what he got was a TU to help adapt him to the new rift... this isn’t a VU and doesn’t stop him from needing it. And there’s very few champions who need a VGU, not only is he a stat checker so that alone qualifies him for a VGU but his visuals are terrible
: why is pantheon e better than kayle r
He does a lot less damage, it’s only in a single direction, and takes a lot more skill for it not to shoot him in the foot trying to use it
: > [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=AWqklBAX,comment-id=00040000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-15T19:09:53.310+0000) > > It really isn’t an achievement system... achievements imply difficukty. So, Riot is lying when the very second line in their FAQ reads : "*Eternals are new, champion-based achievements that let you prove your Mastery and stunt on your opponents.*", right ? > It’s a stat tracker and one that doesn’t even track intresting stats... usually skill shots landed or stacks gained or stuff like that. They are just numbers and don’t actually show any form of skill. Mastery is still better for showing that off. Let's explore a tad that shall we ? In the FAQ it says that : >"**What are Eternals?** > >Eternals let you showcase your accomplishments in League, tracking both unique and general gameplay milestones on a per-champion basis. Once Eternals go live, you’ll find them listed with each champion in the new Progression tab." You say it's not achievements, because it just tracks stats, right ? ... Tell me. When you accrue Achievements in a Single Player game how is it done ? ... Surely the game doesn't track stats, right ? ... You don't get an *Achievement* when you *accomplish* something in game, right ? Also. Speaking of difficulty. Don't Achievements in Single Player games come as Common, UnCommon, Rare, and (at times) et cetera ? ... > And the unlockables are just cosmetics, so you don’t loose anything for not having them. I don't disagree on them being cosmetics. But they can still be used in game, which could lead to peer-pressure. > And it won’t create peer pressure... remember that the majority of the community don’t talk or don’t really care, and the ones that will attempt to use it as peer pressure really don’t need it... they’re gonna find something to complain about no matter what you do. > Plus from the looks of things unless you flash mastery or get a milestone in game you can only really see them post game, so people don’t get to use them against you. Funny you should mention that ... Because they say in the FAQ that : >"**Can I turn off Eternals milestones and displays?** > >There’s nothing wrong with a bit of secrecy and subterfuge (just ask Zed!) Players will have several options to mute Eternals milestones in-game (All On, Self + Team Only, and completely Off). However, Eternals will always be shown on the death screen and on the back of the player card in the loading screen." So, peer-pressure while usually atributed to the close environment, it can appear in games where cosmetics and "unique" items can be *shown off*. And what do you know, they can be shown in game. Let's not forget that while some peer-pressure could come from the few friends you have that play the game with you, there's another chunck that will come from seeing those "achievements" flashed on you (vanity will prevent a lot of people from hiding them). Think of it like being called called out for having the default skin on Fortnite; hear it enough times and it can push you into buying a skin on it. If you think that this doesn't happen in LoL, with the amount of snowflakes, on both sides of the flame wars, you are not giving this enough credence.
> So, Riot is lying when the very second line in their FAQ reads : "Eternals are new, champion-based achievements that let you prove your Mastery and stunt on your opponents.", right ? That might be what riot called them but they aren’t... like I said achiements are difficult tasks that prove skill or dedication... number of hooks landed or stacks gained aren’t achievements they are just stats... only jinx and Ashe have anything close to achievements. > You say it's not achievements, because it just tracks stats, right ? ... Tell me. When you accrue Achievements in a Single Player game how is it done ? ... Surely the game doesn't track stats, right ? ... You don't get an Achievement when you accomplish something in game, right ? > Also. Speaking of difficulty. Don't Achievements in Single Player games come as Common, UnCommon, Rare, and (at times) et cetera ? ... But these aren’t something you accomplish, they are something you should do anyway. Like I said blitz and thresh have number of hooks landed, Veigar nasus kindred and cho have number of stacks gained, every champion with a teamfight ult have hitting multible champions with it, anivia has hitting empowered Es, Olaf has number of cc blocked by ult... ect ect. Tell me at what point are any of these to do with skill... they aren’t. These just track how often you play your champion. The current mastery system is much better for showing skill. Riot might have planned them to be achievements but they haven’t accomplished it... these are just grinds and ones that nobody will be impressed with. > I don't disagree on them being cosmetics. But they can still be used in game, which could lead to peer-pressure. Not really, like I said to see them you’ve gotta be flaunting it... if you don’t nobody will know if you have it or not. > So, peer-pressure while usually atributed to the close environment, it can appear in games where cosmetics and "unique" items can be shown off. And what do you know, they can be shown in game. Let's not forget that while some peer-pressure could come from the few friends you have that play the game with you, there's another chunck that will come from seeing those "achievements" flashed on you (vanity will prevent a lot of people from hiding them). Think of it like being called called out for having the default skin on Fortnite; hear it enough times and it can push you into buying a skin on it. If you think that this doesn't happen in LoL, with the amount of snowflakes, on both sides of the flame wars, you are not giving this enough credence. But like I said people who do that don’t need this system. They are gonna do it no matter what... if someone is enough of an asshole to judge you for this they will judge you for your skin, your mastery, or just how you play. So no change from usual... and the mute option exists if you pay that much attention to assholes on the internet that peer pressure gets to you then your being an idiot. And if your friends do it then you’ve just got shit friends simple as that.
: New pantheon rework E ability is unrelliable in duels and his health growth per level is bad.
It’s complete invulnerability it needs counter play such as being able to walk behind him... if he’s too fast then it’d be way too broken. And the ability isn’t there to block long term in 1v1s, it’s better used like windwall or parry... rather than activating it and keeping it active you should use it to block a fight damage ability then immediately reactivate for the damage and access to other abilities. Only time you wanna keep it active is if your taking a lot of ranged damage. So for those match ups you mentioned renekton uses E in, empowered Ws, Q then E out... block the W with the active and good chance you block the Q (due to how renekton combos), then end E for the damage and hit him with a Q for a win trade. Darius you save it for his ult not his Q, when he’s about to ult activate it reactively and you block all of the true damage and save your team from resets.. early game that’s the difference between a won and lost lane. Morde you just wanna block an isolated Q then reactivate to help block some damage in a 1v1. Fiora you block a vital proc. Some are more useful than others... thats called counter match ups.., but vs melee you wanna block their big damage ability (don’t forget it blocks true damage). > Also his thrown q is really not good since it is difficult to hit and if minions are there it deals half the damage it should. Charge Q you wanna save as an execute... when it hits a target below 25% health it deals 155 / 240 / 325 / 410 / 495 (+ 200% bonus AD) which needless to say is huge damage. Until you’ve gotten them that low just use tap Qs, it doesn’t suffer the same reduced damage if it hits a minion first and halves the cooldown letting you use it more often to poke and trade.
: Why is botlane so horrible now...
Bot lane is the most important lane in the game, the vast majority of games are won or lost based on who’s bot lane won... which in turn makes it the only lane worth playing around. That’s why you’ve got 4 man ganks... cause there’s no where else for them to gank that’s anywhere near as effective. As for the ap supports just gotta learn how to deal with them... play safe and try your best they do fall off hard if they don’t get kills.
: No, they're not more greedy than usual. But it's not not just another customization either. It is effectively a type of hybrid Achievements-Mastery with unlockables that could be used in game. And it is hidden behind a paywall; and which most definitely will create a type of 'peer pressure'. If you can't see that, not my issue.
It really isn’t an achievement system... achievements imply difficukty. It’s a stat tracker and one that doesn’t even track intresting stats... usually skill shots landed or stacks gained or stuff like that. They are just numbers and don’t actually show any form of skill. Mastery is still better for showing that off. And the unlockables are just cosmetics, so you don’t loose anything for not having them. And it won’t create peer pressure... remember that the majority of the community don’t talk or don’t really care, and the ones that will attempt to use it as peer pressure really don’t need it... they’re gonna find something to complain about no matter what you do. Plus from the looks of things unless you flash mastery or get a milestone in game you can only really see them post game, so people don’t get to use them against you.
Warix3 (EUW)
: It wouldn't be a problem if this was just a customization option, but it's not. It's an achievement system. It's supposed to show off your dedication to the champion and not only the looks of a champion. How they should have done it is to make the system available to everyone but you could spend rp to unlock different colors of the rewards or something like that, not to completely lock the system behind a paywall.
They aren’t achiements, they are stack trackers... and it’s not like they actually show how good you are at a champion... they litterally just track something you should be doing anyway, usually landing skillshots... they really aren’t that interesting (litterally anivia is champions hit with an empowered E... nasus and Veigar are just lifetime stacks). They don’t show skill they show how much you play the champion... you can do that anyway with mastery system... this is litterally just a different way of showing that off And the price is cause they had to get new tech to keep the system working, and coding these for 140+ champions is a big undertaking, so paying for it is understandable (personally would say they need a lower price but still).
Cooler39140 (EUNE)
: > Yep, he’s outright dead in top abd support and yet riot keep nerfing him cause people can’t learn counter play vs top Kench I bet not because of that, but because of pro play.
The first lots where due to pro play, but the nerfs from last patch where all due to top lane tahm which never saw any pro play. So riot decided to kill him in low elo, high elo and pro play all for stupid reasons
Warix3 (EUW)
: The problem is they are too greedy and it's disrespectful to act like this to the players. It's about respect, they don't respect their players at all. Constant issues with bugs, balance and many more. Sure they will earn more money this way but they will also lose a lot of respect from the players. And once players stop playing the game, what are they going to do with all the money? Pay people to come back to the game?
They aren’t too greedy though... this is no where near too greedy. This is adding another customisation option which is completely optional and has no affect on gameplay... no different to skins or emotes... that’s not being greedy, that’s riot doing what they are meant to be doing as a company while being respectful of us... nothing has come at the games expense. And the bugs and balance issues have nothing to do with Riot... bugs are a given in video games they are completely luck based and up until now Riot got increadibly lucky that’s all... they can take months to actually get rid of and every new line of code has a chance to add more. There’s not a single game out there without bugs. Balance issues is just an artefact of mobas, there’s so many variables that it’s impossible to actually balance the game, no two champions will ever be equal. Riot try their best but it’s something that’s in every moba and always will be in every moba. You guys are giving Riot a hard time for apsolutly nothing... they are a company doing what companies do in an extremely fair way... if riot wanted to be greedy league wouldn’t be free to play.
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: actually can't believe you spent this much time replying to a troll
Unfortunately he isn’t a troll. Just someone who can’t understand that riot is a business that wants money... like most people in this community (seriously everyone is acting so betrayed that a company is doing something to make money).
: you don't seem to understand, yet, you were the one that made the same connection i'm talking about in his own comment. you said "dota and csgo did it first, now riot is doing it" so tell me, how long will it be before OTHER companies do that as well? maybe in 60$ games or in subscription games? We, as players, need to wake up and make companies understand that yes, they need to make money, but they can't just shove out something and expect everyone to buy it. we NEED to draw a line somewhere and make them realize they can't keep pushing it.
But the line isn’t here. The line is when riot start making the game pay to win that’s the line. This is just cosmetics that you can outright pretend doesn’t exist if you want to. Again companies are there to make money, doesn’t matter if the game is free to play, subscription based, or pay to play they all exist solely for money. Any of them selling cosmetics for extra money is fine, it’s optional and in turn gives the company more resources to play with in creating other content. The line is when companies try to make extra money at our expense, when their attempts to make money degrade or harm gameplay. Riot hasn’t ever gone near that line, and frankly neither has any of the other major mobas... that’s the line and that will come at us stopping playing entirely. Until then riot adding in harmless cosmetics that you can ignore for more money is completely fine.
: it's our fault because we kept buying everyithing, no matter how stupid it was, they kept pushing the limit with each new "improvement". first, low cost recolors, then low cost emotes, then HIGH cost recolors and, depending on how much this crap will cost, high cost emotes check the like/dislike ratio of the video they used in the FAQ, watch those and tell me people aren't fed up with riot's crap.
It’s stupid though, Riot is a company, they exist to make money, league exists to make money... its like everyone keeps forgetting this. Riot aren’t here for fun they are here to make money like every company, that involves them releasing new stuff and selling it to us. And frankly this isn’t crap, this is something that has been going on in other mobas for a while now. What would be crap is riot making the game pay to win, or pay to play... there’s plenty of ways to get money out of us and yet everything is still optional... at that point who cares what riot releases. Don’t like it don’t buy it, if you do like it then buy it... it’s not like if we didn’t buy the other stuff Riot would have released this for free the whole point is making money, this was something they where gonna do eventually.
: good job players, really good job
It’s not our fault... these aren’t anything to do with the mastery system, these are stat trackers, and the trend of paying for them originated from DotA and CSGO both of which are from valve. So if you really wanna blame someone blame valve. And the same thing applies, don’t like it don’t buy it... league is a game that doesn’t penalise you for going free to play, that these days is very rare... don’t complain because a company built to make money is trying to make money off a game they made to make money off
: Played against several pantheons, His damage is not toplane material.
He’s now more difficult... his damage doesn’t come from facerolling on your keys it comes from skill... passive management, knowing when to charge the Q and when not to, knowing how long to hold the E (as it’s terribke damage)... these are all skill based now, so an inexperienced pantheon will struggle to deal damage while a good pantheon won’t. Give it a few weeks for his combos and builds to settle then judge it... personally I think conquerer isn’t the best rune for him people are seriously underestimating that empowered W’s synergy with PTA.
: I honestly think garen doesn't work well with AD / CRIT builds, you need to be really far ahead to reach those levels of oneshot we usually see in URF, I like my Tank garen, reliable, tanky and good at basically everything.
But that’s currently... the changes on the pbe might change that (as his E scales with attack speed and can proc on hit effects)... so on hit attack speed garen might become the norm.
: Only thing is that you cant break the AS cap with it...
You can... trust me I’ve messed around with hail of blades jayce you can break the attack speed cap > Basic attacking an enemy champion grants 110% bonus attack speed for your next 3 basic attacks. Attack resets do not consume a stack of Hail of Blades. While active, Hail of Blades ignores the attack speed cap.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > Except those do make them money. You skipped the important part where is said it doesn't DIRECTLY make them money, all the words matter :P
But that doesn’t matter, they are never doing stuff which doesn’t make them money, and they are never doing stuff that loses the company money. Who cares if something doesn’t directly make them money, but if it’s still making them money then it still matters
Akaillusion (EUNE)
: well this explains it but still his pickrate is eh
Pick rate was eh in low elo, he had a 51% presence in pro play and that’s including the patches after this change... thing is is that as a champion with strong peel, strong engage, good damage, high durability, good pushing power, and a semi global he was way too good in pro play.. and by removing this unintended strengh you return him to where he was meant to be. If that hurt him too much you then buff up his intended strenghs
Cypherous (EUW)
: > But that only means those tasks cost that amount... the more people you have working on a project the more expensive that manpower is, otherwise you could be spending that manpower on other things which will be gaining you money. But you're assuming that manpower was working on something that would make them money to begin with, the art team works on champion VFX updates, map updates, art for new modes etc, none of those directly make them money anyway but they still devote manpower to it At the end of the day it isn't going to cost them anything more its just a case of juggling priorities > Combine that with the length of time it takes to sort this out for 140 different champions Yes copy and paste of art really takes a lot of effort, the icons are done once and re-used, while they might have this for 140 champions they are all going to look the same and the emote upgrades will be shared between champions, they aren't having to make 140 individual pieces of art from scratch > and the tech they had to obtain to make this function Yeah not as complicated as you think, and it will be a function that is simply reused on every champion, write once and reuse, sure they had to make it work the first time but outside of that its just going to bolt on to each champion > and you’d realise this is not something Riot made for free I am aware, you seem to think i don't know how business works, thing is you still have to give a little before you expect to be able to take something back > it cost them money to make this and thus giving it away would loose them money You mean like all the free little legends they gave away with the first TFT pass made them lose money on all the people who wanted to use more than the default legend and therefore spent money on their egg lottery? :P Its called marketing, you give people a taste of the feature with a freebie then charge them for more, i mean its something massive companies like amazon understand all too well, why do you think they offer prime trials? :P
> But you're assuming that manpower was working on something that would make them money to begin with, the art team works on champion VFX updates, map updates, art for new modes etc, none of those directly make them money anyway but they still devote manpower to it > At the end of the day it isn't going to cost them anything more its just a case of juggling priorities Except those do make them money. Artists work on splash art meaning skins New champions and VGUs come with new skins or updated skins meaning more sales Map updates are advertisable and makes the game visually appealing which helps draw new players meaning new sources of income Modes do the same, they attract new players as well as bring back old players, who may spend money on the game. It’s all connected back to money. > Yes copy and paste of art really takes a lot of effort, the icons are done once and re-used, while they might have this for 140 champions they are all going to look the same and the emote upgrades will be shared between champions, they aren't having to make 140 individual pieces of art from scratch This isn’t anything to do with art... do you really think all this took was a bit of art. Explains a lot. Eternals are stat trackers, achiements. It tracks you doing certain actions and upgrades for each one. Every champion has particular stats which are tracked, and each one needs its own code to track them... This is way bigger than just artwork (he’ll most of that art work is prob just promotional stuff not actual in game stuff). > Yeah not as complicated as you think, and it will be a function that is simply reused on every champion, write once and reuse, sure they had to make it work the first time but outside of that its just going to bolt on to each champion Firstly by tech I mean hardware and software not coding or artwork... that’s something Riot has to actually buy they can’t make it themselves... which costs a lot of money to do. Secondly coding doesn’t work like that. Each eternal is a unique achiment and stat tracker for each champion, for example shen has “party crasher” which is landing a taunt directly after a ult, and sylas has “stop hitting yourself” which is killing someone with their own ult. these require completely different codes to be detected and tracked properly... and that’s for 140 different champions, and that’s assuming that it’s just one per champion you could be looking at anywhere between 140-420 different eternals each one needing to be brain stormed, coded, and playtested. That’s a collosal undertaking that would take months to complete. > I am aware, you seem to think i don't know how business works, thing is you still have to give a little before you expect to be able to take something back Yeah and riot have a lot to do this, so they need to take something back. > You mean like all the free little legends they gave away with the first TFT pass made them lose money on all the people who wanted to use more than the default legend and therefore spent money on their egg lottery? :P That’s only as a reward for playing TFT during the beta test as a way to draw people in so they could actually test the game mode... people who play after the beta test is over likely won’t get one. > Its called marketing, you give people a taste of the feature with a freebie then charge them for more, i mean its something massive companies like amazon understand all too well, why do you think they offer prime trials? :P And the taste of this is playing the game... you play your main, get good at them and start pulling off cooler stuff, then you want to buy an eternal to track that cooler stuff and show it off. It’s capatilising on a hook that’s alrwady in the game, people desire to show off on champions. ~~~~
Akaillusion (EUNE)
: If you think about it, why did they exactly remove Galio's ability to flash while charging W?
Galio is meant to be a defensive tank rather than an offensive tank... instead of engaging he disengages or counter engages... that’s why his ult only goes on an ally or why his E has the wind up. His flash W kinda broke that, instead of being a defensive tool it became an offensive one, W flash was an effective initiation tool... which meant that Galio got to be both offensive and defensive, as well as tanky and good damage... for lack of a better word he was too good at too many things. Removing this gets rid of an unintended strengh and means that he isn’t able to do the majority of things a support wants to do which was why he got such a high presence in pro play
: But then id disagree and say Lulu is a poor isolation support and id argue poppy isnt even a support, tahm is still great and better then lulu by a mile, id also argue hes better than Ali, just have to use him right...
Poppy support is very much a thing, and way better than tahm at the moment... you’ve got better lane presence, better damage, tankier, better engage, better pick, better peel, and better isolation Lulu in a 2v2 polymorphis and you’ve got a 2v1... that’s faster, more reliable, and less punishable than tahm W. On top of lulu being ranged (safer and more presence in lane), and much better at peeling. Alistar is tankier (tankiness support by far...) has more engage, more damage, more cc, better peel, and more versatile, and is easier. Tahm is a difficult champion, and if you play him right your still a discount version of other champions... it’s just not worth it. And he used to be fun, now he’s just sad when you use any of his strenghs and they just aren’t strong anymore... he used to be strong at bulling now it’s juat painful landing the Q and watching it be useless, he used to be amazing at saving an adc and getting those clutch saves now he’s just a sitting duck and gets both of them killed (plus they %%%%ed up by removing the time before they get spat out, now anyone you eat accidentally gets straight back out again), he used to be able to 1v1 carries if done right and now he can only kill them if they are dumb. Your way of using him requires people to be dumb, anyone with half a brain won’t let a tahm get 3 hits onto them, especially in a teamfight.... the nerfs to his Q killed off how you play him as well, if it’s still working that’s got nothing to do with you playing him right, but the enemies playing against him wrong.
Cypherous (EUW)
: > You really don’t understand how stuff like this works... the system doesn’t cost nothing, nothing costs nothing. Everything has a cost in resources, that’s time, money and manpower... manpower comes from paying wages and time is money. You mean the people already being paid regardless? the people already contractually obliged to do whatever task their given? Yeah you don't seem to understand how this works
But that only means those tasks cost that amount... the more people you have working on a project the more expensive that manpower is, otherwise you could be spending that manpower on other things which will be gaining you money. Combine that with the length of time it takes to sort this out for 140 different champions, and the tech they had to obtain to make this function and you’d realise this is not something Riot made for free, it cost them money to make this and thus giving it away would loose them money... and as riot exists to make money not give stuff away for free then it makes sense to have to pay for it. Like I’ve said we are lucky enough that we don’t have to pay for the game itself and that riot give us free skins through loot boxes, they very much could have not done that and milked us for more... a game that you don’t have to pay anything to fully enjoy is extremely rare these days, paying for cosmetics is fair game.
Warix3 (EUW)
: Lmao, they make over $2 billion profit each year, I think get more than enough money. They can't even make a stable game and client and then they come with something like this, charging for achievements which literally no game has done in history.
They are a company, they exist to make money... litterally no company ever goes “we make enough profit we can stop now” all of them go “how can we make more money”. You all act like Riot is some kind of charity... they aren’t. They are a business which exists to make money and find more ways to make money, league of legends is something Riot did to make money not for fun, video games are to make money. We are lucky enough as it is this game is free to play and you aren’t penalised for not spending money... in this day and age that’s a miracle. We live in a capitalist society, businesses exist to make money off us and find ways to make more money off us... yall just gotta learn to accept that.
: I still disagree... hes still fun to play, hes still tanky and he does damage, braum on the other hand has 0 damage, hes about as useless as they come and one of the worst supports out there, part of Tahm's kit is being able to isolate someone while your team focus's the rest to which he can still do, the only thing that's changed is his skill level really... his movement speed is a bit of a killjoy i will agree but saying hes no longer viable is just nonsense
Tahm shouldn’t resort to being an aggressive isolation support... he’s a defensive peel support. And if you want isolation {{champion:53}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:78}} all do that job better, faster, and more reliably. Also Braum does more damage than tahm in realistic fights, is better in a fight thanks to his passive, and is tankier (Braum E is stronger than tahm E). So again, there’s nothing tahm does which other champions don’t do better... hell mordekaiser support is better than tahm support in every aspect.
Shamose (EUW)
: I can litteraly buy an old BMW. Modify it for rally cross. Take it a weekend doing rally cross. And afterwards take some friends for dinner. For the same money it costs to unlock all the eternals. And now don't tell me: "But shamose you don't have to buy them all". That's not the %%%%ing point.
That is the point... that’s the entire point. The idea of eternal is that your only gonna be buyin ones attributed to your main, for many players that’s only going to be 1-3 eternals (which you can buy in one set, as each set contains 3 eternals)... It’s like saying it’s too expensive to buy every single skin... no duh that’s gonna cost a lot, but there’s no reason to you can get away with 0 of them if you wanted. And you don’t need to buy any, don’t agree with it then don’t buy it... same as any product. The game is free to play, you can get away without spending anything... so don’t spend anything if you want
: You get a free Refund token each year until you get 3 that i didnt expected Riot would do
Yeah, so if you’ve brought a champion and their rework then gets revealed you can refund them... it’s highly doubtful you’ll do that more than once a year
: If Riot think on delete champs they would need at less refund rp people wasted on champs and skins, and to be fair i think Riot dont want lose money
Riot warn ahead of time that a rework is coming, we know almost a year in advance in most cases... if you’ve spent rp on a champion after that then you don’t deserve a refund, and if you spent rp before that then you got your money’s worth... plus we get our refund tokens back now so you can always spend one of those if you really need to.
: Disagree, a lot of tanks still get shredded regardless off full armor build, hes still viable just have to play better...
He really isn’t viable. He can’t supply pressure in lane, he’s not that tanky compared to other supports, his peel comes at a massive drawback, he requires skill to mitigate that drawback, and there’s no longer any payoff for that drawback. Again why play tahm over Braum... Braum is tankier, applies lane presence, applies better cc, applies better engage, gives peel without stopping dps, peel doesn’t make him and his ally a sitting duck, and can protect multible allies at once. There’s no reason to pick tahm anymore, there’s nothing he does which someone else doesn’t do better, and everything he attempts to do comes with massive costs. His niche is armoured personal carrier, he’s meant to be able to carry allies across dangerous areas without harm... now he can’t move while he’s eaten someone so he can’t fufill that niche, and that was a few patches ago, with last patch he lost all lane presence and damage, and this patch he’s lost tankiness. At this point they might as well save us tahm players the pain and just delete him, it’d be a mercy kill at this point.
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swampert919

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