Pixelbits (EUW)
: Is Poppy weak?
She’s actually designed as a warden, so similar niche to Taric of focusing on protecting other players rather than carrying herself You can still carry with a tank, but it comes from setting up your team rather than dealing damage... way I see it if you initiate the game winning play, your big teamfight ult won the deciding fight, or you protected the carry who killed everyone then you carried the game even if you didn’t deal much damage
: > Also ironic that at the time everyone was calling his mini rework the death of aatrox and the worst thing to possibly happen to him, now he was perfect afterwards... funny how nostalgia works That's not how it was. The inital reaction to the minirework was indeed sceptical, but after a short while it was widely accepted and praised as a good solution to his problems AND to the problem of how to give a previously problematic kit some counterplay when it has the numbers to back it up. He then got a trading window one could use as an Aatrox player, or abuse as his enemy. Old mini-rework Aatrox, prior to his full rework, was indeed very much fine.
Sorry for the double reply but thought I’d take a trip down memory lane https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/7GR1xQMQ-aatrox-rework https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/EWvboKAH-rework-aatrox (You even commented on this one) https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/0Oo6juRH-new-aatrox-rework 11 upvotes, 2 downvotes and hey look it’s me getting downvoted defending the mini rework da ja vu am I right https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/OZ4b6Ybx-the-aatrox-rework Mentions it https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/qPahy7Xe-the-aatrox-rework People asking for the full rework sooner to fix the mini rework https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/KMxOUYtN-aatrox-rework Someone asking for a revert to old old aatrox ___ You get the picture... aatrox’s mini rework was outright hated, to the same Cali result as this one Disclaimer: sorry if I seem patronising I’ve been cooped up writing essays all day so I’m only working off half a brain now EDIT: you know if you read that descussion I had on one of those threads you could almost forget I’m talking about old aatrox considering I’ve had that exact same descussion only a few days ago... the more things change the more they stay the same. EDIT2: also only praise I saw looking through the old threads was you and me... unless you count after his full rework where it suddenly became the best thing since sliced bread
: > Also ironic that at the time everyone was calling his mini rework the death of aatrox and the worst thing to possibly happen to him, now he was perfect afterwards... funny how nostalgia works That's not how it was. The inital reaction to the minirework was indeed sceptical, but after a short while it was widely accepted and praised as a good solution to his problems AND to the problem of how to give a previously problematic kit some counterplay when it has the numbers to back it up. He then got a trading window one could use as an Aatrox player, or abuse as his enemy. Old mini-rework Aatrox, prior to his full rework, was indeed very much fine.
Sceptical is not the right word... people reacted to that as badly as they reacted to his full rework. People downright hated it, calling him completely useless due to his limited access to his passive and the changes to his W... and they complained about right up until they got something new to complain about. Also he wasn’t fine, still a stat checker, still had his unhealthy relationship with attack speed, still a pain to balance. His mini rework was only to get him to a point where he wasn’t actively dying until they could give him the full rework
WhyNotPat (EUW)
: Mini rework? :P 1 of 2 healing charges removed, slow almost halved, heal cost increased with over 200%, range reduced with 1/3 , casting time on W added and if interrupted its 5 sec cd, and ofc to top it damage reduced :P
Heal is tripled meaning more healing than before, cooldown halved already (and as your essentially getting 3 charges every 8 seconds rather than 1 every 14 seconds that’s a massive increase in healing), her heal also now gives attack speed and a longer haste Passive shield is increased Mana restore is back Q damage increased Base value on her W (so better early game) and gives more adaptive stats later on (and based on their stats not yours). These are insanely big buffs, only net downside is making her more vulnerable if you get caught.
WhyNotPat (EUW)
: The end of Yuumi
It’s a good redistribution of power, and if she’s hit too hard by this follow up buffs can come in to help... but this at least targets her main issues
Felahliir (EUW)
: Release old Aatrox as the new darkin champion
The point of a rework is to remove an unhealthy kit not add a new one in... if old aatrox was added as a new champion that champion would immediately require the exact same treatment old aatrox received Also ironic that at the time everyone was calling his mini rework the death of aatrox and the worst thing to possibly happen to him, now he was perfect afterwards... funny how nostalgia works
: yeah well they are taking later that day a bit to litteral cause it's getting pretty late
Riot tends to work of amarican time (as the people who are releasing it and making sure it’s stable are in amarica) and release it globally (so simultaneously not at specified times)... it’s currently 8am for them, so there’s still plenty of time for them to release him Typically new champion drop around 9pm GMT, which translates to roughly midday for riot.
Doc2236 (EUNE)
: So you want to buy an apple. You go the market and ask a vendor for an apple. He states that you will be able to buy the apple tomorrow. You go back the next day and ask for it. The reply: Yes the apple is here but you can't have it. Come back tomorrow. I guess you get the analogy... Pardon me, but this is a bit confusing. If something is being released on the 12th of december than why advertise on every forum, including the client itself that the release date is 11th? Don't get me wrong, I undersand the idea that Riot wants to release it with the event, but than why don't just say so?
But they never stated the time, it’s still the 11th, only 4:30 where I am... and in amarica (where riot is) it’s only 8am. They never lied. To use your analogy it’s like if a store gets a new delivery and puts the produce on display, but you get there before the shop opens and demand service... it’s not a problem that it’s not out yet, because new champions usually are released later that day (9pm GMT typically). As for the confusion could be a mistake by the people doing the advertising (not uncommon, mistakes happen) but as we haven’t heard anything it’s likely Aphelios will drop later today, and tomorrow the event will start
: > Do you see every game over 1000 ap with full build and drakes and even baron? Yeah pretty much. > And what about that mana? 6K mana just like that is maybe nothing much too.. Again a normal mage with a normal amount of mana never run out later on into the game... it gets to the point where most of that mana will never be touched. > You have opinion, I have opinion, you say your facts as to why your opinion is correct, I say my facts as to why my opinion is correct, you say my opinion is crappy, I say your facts are crappy. I don't really care as to what you think, but care WHY you think so. You haven't say anything reasonable beside that he was somehow gutted and it didn't worked for some reason and he wasn't really in that bad spot, he wasn't in worse spot many champions are now + he had rework now so it might be solution just maybe in softer way, just maybe. And if Riot did so, then it wasn't because of community... But I have explained it... multible times in multible ways... your just not listening. You want riot to overnerf ryze thinking that’s the only way, I’m telling you another way is to gradually nerf him. The advantage of that is that you don’t kill a champion for their player pool, and you don’t need to buff later removing the risk of overbuffing him. Riot have tried it your way and it’s failed, no reason to try it again.
and the hypocrisy continues > First and furthermost, thats the main and only fkin reasom why should any champion be gutted and this whole thing is whether he deserve it or not and I know you mean it in that way again that I haven't given you any reasonable arguments so far but how can you even say that, when I did full analogy of what we both have written so far? I know the answer, you just wants to win this hassle no matter whether I have truth or no. You rather deny what I said than PROVING YOUR ARGUMENTS ( and dont say: " I already did." when you objectively did not... But that’s not a good enough reason. There is only one champion who was bad enough to validate this, which was poppy... and that was to keep her under control until her complete VGU. You need a hell of a lot more reason to validate gutting a champion, especially as that exact reason is the same for just nerfing him. > How dare you?!!! > THOSE ARE INSULTS, towards me... How dare you say that I said something that has this meaning when it does not! Do you not see the hypocrisy here... you did it to me, I returned the favour, and suddenly now its unacceptable. Grow up already and take responsibility for your own actions. > There you proved that you are ignorant and that you toss away everything I say just because its not to your liking. Nothing about being ignorant or rptossing away things I don’t like, being ok with your main being gutted is just an opinion and a minority one at that. This isn’t being ignorant this is just being realistic... if everyone was ok with their mains being gutted league would be a very different place > Opinion? Thats whole problem with ryze. And I can use fact that is based on this logic: But I’ve already proven that your logic is flawed because the majority of people and sources don’t think he’s game breaking... therefore your opinion is still an opinion. > Another things I didnt say, so its bullsh;t from your side... I will use Rengar as example as to what I said. Rengar is usually taking electrocute which is considered the most OP rune on him ( I use hail of blades) and rengar in a big part of the game does tons of DMG regardless of the rune ( he will do that DMG even with aftershock) so why should we nerf rune when its only small fraction of power? But thats not applicable here. If HoB got buffed in a way which severely benefited rengar and suddenly he became much stronger then its to do with that buff... and if that rune has caused rengar as well at 2 other champions to become increadibly strong then yes nerfing the rune will nerf the champions back to an acceptable level, and then if one of them is still out of line that champion can be nerfed Conquerer on dps mages is too strong that’s a fact, and it needs nerfing regardless... it so happens that ryze is affected by this. And if after conquerer is stable and ryze is still out of line he can receive further nerfs to bring him back in line. > WhIChIsNTTruEatAlL" so much u have to say to this... :D When you argument this way and its also your own argument I used against you... Then its almost objectively true that you are biased... Firstly you can’t talk about using their own argument against you after how badly you’ve reacted to me treating you how you treat me. Secondly you are trying to kill a champion because your opinion is he’s too strong, thats called being bias. > So straight deletion from the game is better, like in aatrox's case, right? + You JUST deny dont disprove... AGAIN!!!!! Are you actually trying to argue against a definition Gutting means killing, after gutting a fish aka ripping everything out of them. Overnerf means you’ve gone too far in the nerf by definition If you want either of these you want ryze to litterally die... this isn’t denying, this is you just not understanding what your asking for. > HAHAhaha... You are insult... Towards me. What does this have to do with ryze? Hmm? Nothing... All you do is just denying what I said and twisting my arguments to be deniable, at least when you cant disprove. Meanwhile I disprove your arguments one after another so that you can deny all my disproof just like that, how you denied everything else before. You defend bullsh;ts by the same bullsh;ts, wtf? You cant argue for bullsh;ts by bullsh;ts and even if they weren't, you still cant defent some thing by that things itself... Do you not hear yourself. You insulted me first, and might I add in a way which would have gotten you a black eye if this was face to face, an then you start having a go when you get the same treatment Just grow up already and learn how to interact with other humans properly, you are generally the worst person I’ve ever encountered in league, at least others realise when they are being assholes to others.
: the one and only time that mana steal was used in the game was on kassadin upon his release, back then less than 10% of the champions had any kind of dash/blink and they where all verry basic, so that mechanik was very abnoxius, but now with the release of champions like qyana, irelian and today Aphilios, i think this mecanik won't be so abnormal as it used to be. as for the fact that Sylas doesn't steal mana, sry but he actualy does, and it is prooven in his last story in freliord where he steals and iceborn girl her ability to survive cold, maybe it was becoz he was at deaths dore so he reacted like a drowning person so he unsonsiously over used it or he just never had an enemy mage so he never had a reason to deprive a mage from all there magic, fact is, he does steal mana. as for the Hijack, well true he doesn't disable your R key, that would be prety deadpool 4th wall chenanigan, but if u lack the mana to use that ability, it's as good as if he dasabled you. and lastly for your first point, i did mansion that Sylas cannot steal mana from manaless/energy champion, wich will pout his at a slight disadvantage against champs like yasuo, garen or zed. as for the auto attck gimick, well sylas alredy weave his pasive in betwean every ability, this mecanick will only make that even more important, with that said, it actualy to make his W more important in a way that would make sylas player judge whether they want to use it on a low HP enemy to heal and kill or a high mana enemy to keep on fighting, forgot to add something on the note but basicaly Sylas will need to use his Auto attack more espesialy in the eurly game, that's why i want a 2 range basick attack style like thresh
> the one and only time that mana steal was used in the game was on kassadin upon his release, back then less than 10% of the champions had any kind of dash/blink and they where all verry basic, so that mechanik was very abnoxius, but now with the release of champions like qyana, irelian and today Aphilios, i think this mecanik won't be so abnormal as it used to be. It would still be a bad mechanic... it’s distruptive with litterally no counter play, interaction, or clarity... it doesn’t have a place in league > as for the fact that Sylas doesn't steal mana, sry but he actualy does, and it is prooven in his last story in freliord where he steals and iceborn girl her ability to survive cold, maybe it was becoz he was at deaths dore so he reacted like a drowning person so he unsonsiously over used it or he just never had an enemy mage so he never had a reason to deprive a mage from all there magic, fact is, he does steal mana. Care to cite this, can’t find it myself Also bare in mind that’s a child (and less powerful than Annie), so likely by absorbing her power he absorbed all of it and likely can’t do the same for other mages (it didn’t affect lux in this way)... like I said it’s like a electrical circuit, doesn’t take much energy to light a lightbulb, but if you use a battery without any charge it will take all of it. He also absorbs stuff though his chains, which likely buffers it preventing an overload like he experienced before his imprisonment > as for the Hijack, well true he doesn't disable your R key, that would be prety deadpool 4th wall chenanigan, but if u lack the mana to use that ability, it's as good as if he dasabled you. But like I said most lore examples he can’t do this. > and lastly for your first point, i did mansion that Sylas cannot steal mana from manaless/energy champion, wich will pout his at a slight disadvantage against champs like yasuo, garen or zed. Which makes him increadibly difficult to balance... you either balance him around his mana drain making him useless vs them, or balance him around the rest of his kit and his mana drain is pointless. Paradigms like this are dangerous and have gotten champions reworked in the past. > as for the auto attck gimick, well sylas alredy weave his pasive in betwean every ability, this mecanick will only make that even more important, with that said, it actualy to make his W more important in a way that would make sylas player judge whether they want to use it on a low HP enemy to heal and kill or a high mana enemy to keep on fighting, forgot to add something on the note but basicaly Sylas will need to use his Auto attack more espesialy in the eurly game, that's why i want a 2 range basick attack style like thresh But again that’s a dangerous paradigm... you either make it strong enough to matter for 1 or 2 weaved in attacks and therefore creates issues with attack speed builds, or make it weak enough to accomidate for attack speed builds and make it useless for him regularly. This balance paradigm is nearly identical to old aatrox, and that resulted in him becoming a completely different champion. Other issues is that increasing basic attack range is a massive buff and one that would require him to have his entire kit changed to accomidate it (he’s a close range bruiser mage, giving him range messes that up) And the W doesn’t need more choices between two things... it’s already an execute and heal, he’s already gotta choose between fighting longer or using it as an execute... why add another for mana.
: Where are the new skins?
Skins are never released straight away in the patch. The VS event starts tomorrow, the rest will prob be next week
: and other assasins have 100 ways to get in and out of an fight. {{champion:84}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:91}}
And so does qyiana (invisibility)... doesn’t change the fact that unlike all the other assasins her ult can single handedly turn teamfights, and again against these champions your not cc locked or prevented from defending yourself (hence why kass and LeBlanc lost their silence). Also riven and wukong aren’t assasins, wukong struggles getting out of fights and is benefited by staying in (ult), and riven doesnt behave like an assasin at all (she’s just mobile, but behaves closer to a skirmisher like jax or yasuo).
: Sylas Rework
Mana stealing is a very distruptive mechanic and one that riot have said they don’t want in the game, it also make balance harder due to the differences in resources (unlike DotA which is designed to accomidate anti mage with everyone having mana (and more mana regen) league wasn’t and therefore has champions without mana). Not to mention it’s not a good fit for sylas both lore and gameplay wise. Gameplay you’ve turned a mage into an auto attacker with no assistance for his kit... which means either he becomes a really discount azir or Diana, or the mechanic doesn’t get used at all Lore wise remember that sylas doesn’t actually steal magic, he’s not a mana vampire... he can conduct magic and reapply it. Think of it more like an electrical current, he’s not taking it from them but instead on contact their magical power infuses him allowing him to copy their powers. That’s why hyjack doesn’t prevent the enemy from using their ults, it’s not stolen them but copies them... so mana drain doesn’t make sense as he doesn’t inhibit their ability to use magic.
HelliseWeb (EUNE)
: Elise is tottaly forggetten!! :(
There’s plenty of champions who have gotten less skins than Elise, and been waiting longer... Elise really ain’t that much of a priority
: How can I make a bigger difference for my team as a support?
So one thing to get good at is roaming, it’s a kill that can be difficult to pick up but especially for your champions is invaluable. Try to recognise when your lane is in a position where you can leave your adc on their own (enemy duo resetting, it pushing against you, adc not being in lane, enemy support is already gone, your adc being too fed for it to matter, the enemy duo being one that can’t really threaten your adc, that sorta thing) and move to mid or even top... a Naut or Leona turning up in another lane usually results in a kill and by doing that you get more than just your adc ahead. Another thing is to practice your late game, If your consistently losing late game it could be you misplaying. Perhaps you are too passive and don’t engage when you should, perhaps you engage at the wrong time... hard to say without seeing you in action but watching a tutorial online for your champions can’t hurt.
JustClone (EUNE)
: Again, do not use "actually true" to describe your opinion. It is not your opinion that is correct and the statistics are contrary to it. It is your opinion that is contrary to the statistics, and statistics is that, what is "actually true".
But it’s not my opinion... that is actual fact that’s what actually happened. Like I said the actual reality was different to that statistic, because that statistic was only a very small portion of the true statistic, which therefore only creates a correlation not a causation at best, outright misinformation at worst. This isn’t my opinion, it’s simply what happens when you look at the bigger picture through all statistics not just a single one... again he held the highest win rate for 3 years without being strong, that’s not my opinion that’s a fact based on information. Like I’ve told you countless times you can’t take a single unanalysed statistic as god given fact, you need to look at the context of why that statistic is the way it is, amumu was like that because his ult was easy to use and could auto win fights (a fact, a good amumu ult is easy to do due to is size and can win a fight), ryze’s win rate is low because he is a difficult combo mage who has a large amount of strengh tied to latency (again another fact, that’s why he’s stronger in pro play, it’s a 0 latency environment)... neither of these are opinions, they are facts with plenty of evidence to back them up.
JustClone (EUNE)
: it is not a fact. It is simply an opinion. It becomes a fact, once that this person provides some reliable data to back his statement. And while I agree that statistics are not perfect, If we have to make a choice between them, and the random opinion of a random person... the decision is more than obvious.
But again half of the statistics is only half of a picture, it’s not much more accurate than an opinion based on experience. Another example, amumu holds the record for the highest win rate held over the longest time, holding around 52-55% win rate for 3 years straight, only dropping after the juggernaut fiasco saw skarner get a 60% win rate. By your logic amumu is strong, yet he was barely played and not actually considered strong, nor did he receive any changes that entire time. Statistics tell you something that is actually contrary to what is actually true. As I’ve said before you need to analyse statistics before you can use them, raw win rate doesn’t actually mean much without the context of what is causing that win rate... ryze having a 48% win rate is actually pretty high for him who averages around 44-46%, especially with an 11% play rate. Once you’ve analysed the statistics and accounted for variables they tell you a very different picture. Plus riot nerfed him and conquerer this patch, goes to show the full statistics showed he was strong (again not as bad as what op thinks, but still out of line).
JustClone (EUNE)
: People project their incompetence to handle a specific champion by calling him "strong", "op" etc... To be as close to the reality and not biased because of lack of game knowledge, statistical data for overall performance is much more reliable.
I mean that’s not entirely true. Many times it is people overreacting or personal bias, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are strong or overpowered champions, and often statistics don’t properly capture them (or at least the statistics we have, Riot have a ton more they use). For example ryze and Cassio are strong right now and do deserve nerfs, they aren’t gamebreaking (well cass has a 52% win rate and a 9% play rate despite being a difficult champion...) but that doesn’t change the fact that they are strong this preseason (and obviously it’s preseason, at least one champion was gonna become too strong that’s just a given)
: Why is AI full of Bot Teammates ?
TT was removed, so bots migrated to a different queue... the less popular the queue the less likely a bot will be found And it’s difficult fix... you can only remove them after they’ve played a game as they look identitcal before hand, and once you remove them it’s pretty easy for the bot to acquire a new account through creating a new one or capturing one trough other players (remember thoughts “free rp” links, yeah that’s how many bots get created)... so it’s a constant and losing battle for riot.
JustClone (EUNE)
: LeBlanc was never strong. It was just extremely un-fun to play against. She would instantly move to you, chomp your hp, and walk away. And you couldn't even cast a single spell as response to that. What this guy is crying, is not that Ryze is unfun to play against, but that he is too powerful, I will quote: >it does not matter if your down 40 cs and 0 2 if youve got a tear on either ryze or cassiopia conc you just win lane 1v9 Ofcourse this couldn't be anywhere near the reality...
She was considered strong, annoying to deal with but still very strong... one shoting during a silence and then blinking away with very limited counterplay, but obviously if you can’t play her she’s a minor annoyance at best and suicidal at worst... hence her low win rate despite her being the best midlaner at the time (hell pretty sure even S3 kassawin didn’t have a great win rate but honestly can’t remember what it was, think it was like 49% or something like that) As for ryze, he is very strong this patch as he was already a decent champion before preseason then got two amazing runes for himself (conquerer and PoM), he’s not as bad as what the OP says but he’s certainly in a very strong position and does deserve the nerfs he got this patch (Cassio on the other hand lives up to what the op is saying about her, but that’s also cause I can’t stand playing vs that champion).
: NERF %%%%ing lee sin please
Don’t forget that being fed doesn’t mean you are tankier unless your building as such... a 6/1/8 squishy is as easy to kill as a 0/0/0 squishy... if lee hit his item breakpoints and you let him combo onto you your gonna die still, same with any champion with full damage Don’t forget though that he is squishy and very reliant on his Q follow up, a good support will render him useless.
: Sorry, I don't get your logic behind your justification of being antagonistic and patronising in your comments, and you say it's tiring... really??? It's simple, if it bothers you when the average person posts a comment on here that you don't like or agree with that might prompt you to be argumentative and antisocial, I suggest you don't read it, comment on it or if you can't then go get some therapy. You might find this hard to believe due to your perceived sense of entitlement but not all players play the game every time a new champion is released, they may play the game off and on and probably a few days after a new champ is released, which would make them unaware of this "obvious" champ release system, which by the way is a bad system since it says nothing about how a champion is released or informs them of it in any accessible way. So with logic in mind, there is plenty of reasons why the average person hasn't figured this out, and why you find so many posts about it, it's called evidence.
It’s not just me and it’s constant. Every time a new champion is released we get a ton of these, and most board regulars react worse than this (my response wasn’t even that bad, admittedly passive aggressive but hardly antagonistic or antisocial), it’s information that is easily obtained (again riot litterally tell us every time) and one that does not require multible posts clogging up the boards. Normally I’m less passive aggressive but we only had our last set of these comments a few weeks ago, so figuring it out only take a bit of initiative... plus by saying as with every champion it does mean next champion as well, prevents people from thinking this is a one off And like I said happens every champion release, Riot tell us they will be released later in the patch notes, people complain that they aren’t avalible, we explain (in the exact same way as this) what riot have already said. I apologise if you felt this was antagonistic, it was not intended as such, more informative that this is the case every release, if not for you to understand with previous releases but also so you know next time.
ToEasY4Me (EUNE)
: In the client they said DEC 11 but the event is tomorow so i dont understad what they are doing here
Could be a typo, could be that his skin is coming a bit early, could be that he will be released seperatly from the skin, could mean that the champion team and events team had a miscommunication. We will know soon enough, for now assume he will come this evening as that is the norm for new champions
: i spended allot of time on her but i dont found that worthy. Qiyana is the nerf Queen And other assasin can outdamage her way easier.
Other assasins can out damage her but given she’s got several cc abilities (that’s aren’t hard to land either) she can kill with a lot less counter play which is big for assasins, plus she’s got a teamfight ult meaning she handles them a lot easier than other assasins who tend to struggle to navigate a teamfight And I really wouldn’t call her the nerf queen, she hasn’t gotten that many (not nearly enough imo)
: good to know, for a second i thought it might be a problem with the new client... Also as a side note, not everyone that plays this game is aware that every champion that has "ever" been released does not come immediately with the patch that it is supposed to be released with, when the patch updated and I read the notes, it said he was available, so silly me for thinking that he was right?
Every single time a new champion is released we go through this... and like I said it’s every champion it was the same with Senna, it was the same with neeko, it was same with sylas ect... more so it’s even said in the patch notes he will be released later in the patch, anyone who has read the patch will know he’s not yet avalible So unless you joined between Senna and now there’s no reason why you shouldn’t have figured this out, or you could look it up first as we get 10 of these threads every single time a new champion gets released... its tiresome especially as the information is easy to get
: Where is Aphelios?
As usual new champions are not released along side the patch but later that day or the next day... this has been the case for every single champion that’s ever been released
: I cant purchase aphelios
As usual new champions do not release at the same as the patch, usually later that evening or the next day. So he’s in the client but not avalible
: the patch notes say nightbringer aphelios comes out tommorow with the event, it says nothing about the champ also releasing then. better yet the game client states that aphelios releases on december 11th in the roadmap bar below, not december 12th
His release skin is part of the event, usually the champion will release along side the event when their release skins are part of the event
: Aphelios (this content is no longer available for purchase)
Like every champion that has ever been released they do not come immediately with the patch but much later in the day, so Aphelios is in the client but is not avalible for purchase as he’s not been officially released yet
JustClone (EUNE)
: Yes, ryze is super viable as mid laner. His amazing 47% win rate that puts him in one of the last places in the whole league is the living proof of that.
Don’t forget that win rate is affected by difficulty, with difficult champions getting naturally low win rates due to less experienced players messing up and losing games. Ryze is a very difficult champion, requires very fast combos done in the correct order and an ult which many players outright don’t know how to use (and one that can loose you the game if done poorly)... he’s also got a relativity weak early game with high mana issues which inexperienced players will struggle surviving So ryze could be the most broken champion in league and he will still not get higher than a 50% win rate... 47-48% is actually pretty dam high for him, not to mention he’s got an 11% play rate so a lot of players who don’t play him are currently trying to An example, back when LeBlanc was at her prime with her silence and was considered by all as a massive issue she only had a 46% win rate. Win rate has a ton of variables, you do have to analyse it properly to understand what’s affecting it
Nar7ia (EUW)
: ^This. Just wanna add that her ult can be a literal game changer, especially around drake and baron.
Exactly, which is something unique to assasins... she’s the only one with a major teamfight winning ultimate
FlameClub (EUNE)
: Lets educate your silly asss then, Patch 9.16 was relaunch . V9.16 - August 15th Hotfix Comet Spear Comet Spear Removed: No longer deals 15% reduced damage against monsters. Aegis Assault Aegis Assault Reduced damage against non-epic monsters reduced to 15% from 33.3%. Patch 9.17 made him broken : Comet spear: New Effect: Thrust damage now Critical strike icon critically strikes for 155 / 240 / 325 / 410 / 495 (+ 200% bonus AD) physical damage against targets below 25% of their maximum health. "same as realease" btw. Educate yourself first.
So first two are jungle changes and he’s not played jungle, second one litterally makes 0 difference in the game you almost never trigger it outside the jungle. He might have gotten changes but he never got actual buffs... so like you said educate yourself before you run your mouth
: > That’s not the reason, that’s never been the reason. Sounds like you're in denial. > He was impossible to balance, His niche, playstyle, strengths and weaknesses where identitcal to 2 other champions He had an extremely unhealthy relationship with attack speed (can’t make his W impactful because of attack speed, can’t make it not impactful cause that kills his early... balance nightmare) He was a stat checker (that alone has gotten champions reworked) He had a heavy reliance on cheese strategies He was feast or famine Impossible to balance, they didn't touch him for 2 years.(nobody cried about balance then) His niche and playstyle are similar to most assasins and split pushers, if you get cced and kited you cannot do shit. Which meant picking the moments right. His attack speed was fine to me. He was never supposed to be an early game champion. He scaled well but you most certainly needed to try for getting a good lead. He wasn't broken and he was killable even at his strongest point in s7, unlike the rework which was basically picked by everyone because it was freelo. Cheese strategies are fine but no he wasn't reliant on cheese unless the enemy team has 3 squishies and he can afford to invade jungle.. which basically every fighter champion in the game is good at. Even garen, if you are a mage and ur behind if a garen decides to cheese you, you basically can say gg. His early was fine, you had an escape and you had a farming tool you had sustain. Only those who want to win every trade would state something like "his early is weak" .. Which sounds like you and no wonder you like the new Aatrox because with his kit is made to bully so that makes up for your skill.. but its not the champion that win games its game knowledge. He was supposed to get strong mid and late. High dps and good dueling power like most split pushers have. They are not made for dominating teamfights. They are made with kit that's good for getting a lead and using it to win.
> Sounds like you're in denial. How is that denial... simple fact that riot don’t rework based on popularity > Impossible to balance, they didn't touch him for 2 years.(nobody cried about balance then) He was kept in a weak state on purpose so that he wouldn’t cause issues before he was reworked > His niche and playstyle are similar to most assasins and split pushers, if you get cced and kited you cannot do shit. Which meant picking the moments right. But it was identical to 2 other champions... ever champion has a different niche those 3 don’t. Again this alone has gotten champions reworked > His attack speed was fine to me. He was never supposed to be an early game champion. He scaled well but you most certainly needed to try for getting a good lead. Doesn’t change the fact that this cause a massive balance paradigm > He wasn't broken and he was killable even at his strongest point in s7, unlike the rework which was basically picked by everyone because it was freelo. New aatrox has always been killable as well, it’s less feast or famine though and more skill (as it should be) > Cheese strategies are fine but no he wasn't reliant on cheese unless the enemy team has 3 squishies and he can afford to invade jungle.. which basically every fighter champion in the game is good at. Even garen, if you are a mage and ur behind if a garen decides to cheese you, you basically can say gg. No he was reliant on a cheese strategy... his early game before his mini rework often hinged on him being able to all in at level 2 using his passive to kill the enemy. > His early was fine, you had an escape and you had a farming tool you had sustain. Only those who want to win every trade would state something like "his early is weak" .. Which sounds like you and no wonder you like the new Aatrox because with his kit is made to bully so that makes up for your skill.. but its not the champion that win games its game knowledge. Mate his early game was freaking solid, again I played a lot of him, won almost every match with him and won every lane. Rush level two prime blood price, Q auto back off and you’ve won top. > He was supposed to get strong mid and late. High dps and good dueling power like most split pushers have. They are not made for dominating teamfights. They are made with kit that's good for getting a lead and using it to win. None of this changes any of his issues ___ Your not disproving his issues, your just explaining to an old aatrox player what old aatrox was... I’ve played him since his release I’m well aware of what he does. None of this changes his issues, how unhealthy he was.
Sorkol (EUNE)
: question about Aphelios
Check server maintenance time... for example the patch drops at 3am in England Also remember new champions are not released immediately, Aphelios will likely be released the following day for you
: Qiyana worth learning?
She’s considered one of if not the strongest assasin currently, she’s got the same burst as other assasins but way more utility and can cc lock someone while bursting them So strengh wise yeah she very much worth learning, though obviously that’s subject to change
: Cloud rift is boring
Thing about the elemental rifts is they are constant... an infernal, ocean and mountain rift stays the exact same at all points of the game, having cloud change would be distruptive and difficult to convey (needs a change to the HUD just for a single rift) As for windtunnels I feel like slowing you down would be a bad change, it would impact the map too much and in a way that would likely punish immobile champions greatly... one directional ones wouldnt be distruptive but personally don’t think it’d have the impact your looking for. Cloud is always gonna be less impressive, as air doesn’t affect a map as much as the other elements (only thing I can think of is a fog which lowers vision range but that’s dicey for balance)
: Kha'zix E (Jump)
There’s no Z axis in the game, so any ability that has the champion go through the air (like kha E) is coded exactly the same as if they went along the ground, as there’s nothing to distinguish between the two So kha jump is coded no differently to rek’sai tunnel
HideSide (EUNE)
: Ok, fk off already. I have spent 3 hours making the most reasonable reply on earth and you just send me somewhere with just" Nah, I dont see it this way." If being reasonable doesn't work then I guess I will have to lower myself on your level. I dont fkin read? >You want him gutted (which means killed by the way, like our previous descussion I do advice you use the correct wording), where as this was a rework. If you where arguing for ryze to be reworked we’d be having a very different descussion (firstly because that’s much more sensible than gutting, and secondly because that and this descussion would actually have a correlation) This is what? Random numbers or what? Why should I use correct wording? Why me? When its my words that arent getting to you. + You say there: "Like our previous descussion I do advice you use the correct wording." But u didnt advice me anything, so another lie I guess... I dont want him reworked since it doenst mean that he will be balanced, reworks means just another champ dumbass, whether he is balanced depends solely on numbers in the end. >I’m saying that the only way that these two thread match is if you where asking for a rework, as your just talking about gutting then it is completely unrelated to a thread about reworks And where the hell are you saying that those two threads match? You are stating that i want him gutten, then advicing to me, then stating that If you where arguing for ryze to be reworked we’d be having a very different d -E-scussion, then saying why. SO WHERE THE FK STANDS that you are saying that these two thread match is if you where asking for a rework AND in which way? >Secondly if you don’t want me to compare him to aatrox why the %%%% did you bring this up on a thread about aatrox. Just because I want everyone to see how your way of thinking stands for sh;t. I can compare aatrox to ryze for aatrox's favor since he is in worse condition than ryze, but you cant compare ryze to aatrox for the sake of ryze when aatrox is in worse condition. I will give you example... Aatrox as the deleted one( because you will never get to play him ever again) can say: " Why should I be fined 10 000 for the same thing as ryze when he was fined just 6 000? Lower it!" But ryze cant say as the one who should be "just" gutted ( as someone who wont be played because of player's own decision, but can be played if he wanted to) " Why should I be fined 6 000 for the same thing as aatrox when he was fined just 10 000? Lower it!" Do you motherfkin get it now? >Because volitile buffs result in overbuffed champions... if you gradually nerf a volitile champion to where they are balanced you’ve got a lot less room for error than trying to buff a volitile champion >I never said he wasn’t volitile to nerfs, but when dealing with volitile champions nerfs are preferable than buffs. Bravo! This contradict just by itself already, so I don't have to say anythings. Thanks. >Well yes, remember that breaking the game is firstly subjective (again that’s only your opinion) Ye, its subjective as weight for deadlift :D How many kg is a lot for dead lift? 100? 150? 200? For someone already 100, for someone not even 200... But you have forgotten that when subjective things of majority matches then it turns into objective thing, as is 200kg objectively a lot for deadlift since its a lot for majority of ppl... Say something reasonable for once pretty please.
> Ok, fk off already. I have spent 3 hours making the most reasonable reply on earth and you just send me somewhere with just" Nah, I dont see it this way." If being reasonable doesn't work then I guess I will have to lower myself on your level. Last time I checked reasonable and giving insults are not the same thing What you sent wasn’t reasonable, it shows how little you understand, how little of an argument you had, insults, and was full of hypocrisy (having a go at me for something you are currentky doing) I’ve given plenty of reasonable comments, you’ve just tried to pass off saying I’m wrong as an argument. > This is what? Random numbers or what? > Why should I use correct wording? Why me? When its my words that arent getting to you. + You say there: "Like our previous descussion I do advice you use the correct wording." But u didnt advice me anything, so another lie I guess... > I dont want him reworked since it doenst mean that he will be balanced, reworks means just another champ dumbass, whether he is balanced depends solely on numbers in the end. What numbers Jesus Christ And that’s an outright lie “you didn’t advise me to” yet during your ‘reasonable’ comment you rightly said I did... just goes to show your twisting what I said to suit you. I know you don’t want him reworked, but this is a thread about reworks... unless you want a rework for ryze you had apsolutly no reason to comment on here trying to call me a %%%%ing hypocrite. > And where the hell are you saying that those two threads match? You are stating that i want him gutten, then advicing to me, then stating that If you where arguing for ryze to be reworked we’d be having a very different d -E-scussion, then saying why. SO WHERE THE FK STANDS that you are saying > that these two thread match is if you where asking for a rework AND in which way? I’m not saying these two threads match... I’m saying the litteral opposite Let me break it down for you We had a discussion about ryze You then commented on a descussion about the aatrox rework calling me a hypocrite I said that unless our descussion was about a ryze rework the two descussions are unrelated Meaning that there’s no hypocrisy as the two subjects are unrelated, and that you had and still have no reason to be talking to me here. So let me put it another way, unless you want a ryze rework or wanna talk to me about aatrox this doesn’t belong here. > Just because I want everyone to see how your way of thinking stands for sh;t. I can compare aatrox to ryze for aatrox's favor since he is in worse condition than ryze, but you cant compare ryze to aatrox for the sake of ryze when aatrox is in worse condition. I will give you example... But they aren’t. Aatrox was reworked, then systematically nerfed till he was in a position that he was balanced without risking buffs. What happened with new aatrox supports what I said about ryze. > Aatrox as the deleted one( because you will never get to play him ever again) can say: " Why should I be fined 10 000 for the same thing as ryze when he was fined just 6 000? Lower it!" > But ryze cant say as the one who should be "just" gutted ( as someone who wont be played because of player's own decision, but can be played if he wanted to) " Why should I be fined 6 000 for the same thing as aatrox when he was fined just 10 000? Lower it!" But that analogy is outright wrong They haven’t done the same thing... aatrox had a whole list of issues causing him to require a rework... ryze has none of those issues. Ryze’s issue is that he’s too strong, that doesn’t require gutting, that just needs nerfs... like current aatrox, was strong, got nerfed, now he’s fine... no gutting required. > Bravo! This contradict just by itself already, so I don't have to say anythings. Thanks. At no point did I contradict myself If you nerf a champion they get worse If a champion is volitile to changes than a nerf will get bigger than it actually is So for those champions smaller nerfs become sizeable ones and it’s much safer to nerf a champion like that as it won’t break the game if something goes wrong If you buff a champion that is volitile to changes a small buff becomes a big one And if a buff goes wrong you’ve broken the game No contradiction > Ye, its subjective as weight for deadlift :D How many kg is a lot for dead lift? 100? 150? 200? For someone already 100, for someone not even 200... But you have forgotten that when subjective things of majority matches then it turns into objective thing, as is 200kg objectively a lot for deadlift since its a lot for majority of ppl... But you aren’t the majority, we’ve been over this. His win rate is still the exact same as normal, play rate is only up by 2%, his play rate is 24th which by no means is impressive. And mid lane he’s been the 2nd most popular for months now, most tier lists place him anywhere between A tier to B tier... none in S+. So before you start pretending that your opinion is fact at least do the research first
: But your evidence is happenstance, yes a 0/20 bot can still win... but what your doing is just looking at scores and drawing a conclusion. Like I said it’s often that the bot lane has to make a mistake to win, yes there was a 20/0 adc but if that adc gets caught out of course they are going to loose. That’s still the bot lane losing the game for their team even if they win lane, it’s often that most damage is coming from the bot lane and as soon as you remove them the fight gets a lot harder to win.
Firstly if your 1v1ing someone as an adc then there’s the mistake I was talking about Secondly the bot isn’t a 1v1 lane, you’ve got a support... even if it’s not a peel support that’s gonna help immeasurably in fighting (all supports have cc, therefore have something to peel with Thirdly protective supports are played... top 3 supports are thresh (very good protective support), Senna (meh, unreliable protection... but a second adc), and Naut (4 different cc abilities all of which can peel). Of the top 10 picked 7 can peel, and 4 are peel oriented. This is for high elo solo Q So again it doesn’t matter if adc is difficult, the better one is still gonna win more so than any other role, and games rely more on the bot lane not making mistakes than any other lane
CaTaStR0Fa (EUNE)
: Aatrox, story of his life, the truth and the questions left unanswered
Well already that’s a lie... Riot have removed quite a few champions from the game, aatrox ain’t special
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: Well cant make you see the truth.Youre probably low elo too so why im even tryng. Btw i even won games as 0 20 botlane.My mid top was just better.And enemy bot was full feed af.Still won."OP BOT IMPACT".LOL. Maybe lower elo bot cant lose games with high advantage to show you that their impact into the game is bad.But i can tell you from p2+its hard as hell to actually carry as bot.
But your evidence is happenstance, yes a 0/20 bot can still win... but what your doing is just looking at scores and drawing a conclusion. Like I said it’s often that the bot lane has to make a mistake to win, yes there was a 20/0 adc but if that adc gets caught out of course they are going to loose. That’s still the bot lane losing the game for their team even if they win lane, it’s often that most damage is coming from the bot lane and as soon as you remove them the fight gets a lot harder to win.
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: How exactly you expect your "support to be good".You didnt hear what i said?PRO STAGE VS SOLO QUE.Solo que is 50/50 if you get good support or good adc. Thats why they are not impactful.Even a good support wont hold a good toplaner.BECAUSE again...listen well most of Champions scale better then BOTLANE.And right now with nerf on bot again you can get enemy mid lv 18 while you still lv 14 bot. Doesnt matter how well "position you do or how good support you get" ifff again...ifff you get it because is solo que..you still can lose heavily to a good mid or top.Even a better jgl that now they get nerf exp again.They still perform better then BOT. I saw plenty of time winning bot and losing game because other lanes have higher lv or higher impact SOLOOOOO. I dunno what stream you watch but neither higher elo botlane have such impact.Thats why in higher elo most jgl dont even give a damn about botlane. Maybe botlane was impactful before in s5 s6 i can tell you for sure that bot since s7 dropped a lot.
> How exactly you expect your "support to be good".You didnt hear what i said?PRO STAGE VS SOLO QUE.Solo que is 50/50 if you get good support or good adc. Which is exactly what I said > Thats why they are not impactful.Even a good support wont hold a good toplaner.BECAUSE again...listen well most of Champions scale better then BOTLANE.And right now with nerf on bot again you can get enemy mid lv 18 while you still lv 14 bot. That’s not true in the slightest. A mediocre support can hold a good top laner. It relies often on the support messing up to kill their adc, or the adc messing up. This furthers the point that the better bot wins, as it’s the bot that messes up that loses. > Doesnt matter how well "position you do or how good support you get" ifff again...ifff you get it because is solo que..you still can lose heavily to a good mid or top.Even a better jgl that now they get nerf exp again.They still perform better then BOT. Except it does, because for a top to get close to you someone has to let them... that’s as simple as that. So again the entire game hangs on how good the bot lane is. > I saw plenty of time winning bot and losing game because other lanes have higher lv or higher impact SOLOOOOO. Because that ‘winning’ bot made mistakes losing the game... without those mistakes they would have won the game. Doesn’t matter how good the other laners are because it’s down to how good/bad the bot lane is. > I dunno what stream you watch but neither higher elo botlane have such impact.Thats why in higher elo most jgl dont even give a damn about botlane. Maybe you should take your head out of streams, the issue there is they are known players and therefore that has a major impact to how their players treat them... you can’t discredit pro games while trying to use streams as proof. > Maybe botlane was impactful before in s5 s6 i can tell you for sure that bot since s7 dropped a lot. Except that’s not true in the slightest, if that was true then pro games would play around other lanes... or the bot lane would move (remember the duo lane is there because of how impactful the bot side is, if it wasn’t as impactful they’d be in a different lane). Again your obsessed about adc that your not looking at bot as a single entity... there being 2 players alone makes it more important than other lanes (getting 2/5 of your team ahead/the enemy team behind as opposed to only 1/5 of the team... simple maths).
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=XGOceo1f,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T18:39:38.545+0000) > > But one doesn’t mean the other. > > You want him gutted (which means killed by the way, like our previous descussion I do advice you use the correct wording), where as this was a rework. If you where arguing for ryze to be reworked we’d be having a very different descussion (firstly because that’s much more sensible than gutting, and secondly because that and this descussion would actually have a correlation) First of all, why should I want rework when rework doesnt mean that he will be balanced. Second overhauled rework = deletetion of one champ and adding another one with the same name and gutting is lowered version of deletion, so don't try to compare him to aatrox and his wanted revert since its not even favorable for ryze. > What your forgetting is that ryze is volitile to buffs, if you want him gutted until later then to undo him dying (again gutted means nerfed until almost or completely unviable) then that’s buffs causing more issues What th fk is this? You want to say that he is volatile to buff but not to nerfs? Like what the hell is that logic... When we buff him and then nerf him by reverting buff, it will be different from starting point or what? Are you trying to disprove my argument that: "Making champ weak so he doesn't break the game and then buffing him to be fine is better than letting him break the game until he is nerfed to be fine." ? Pretty stupid logic...
> First of all, why should I want rework when rework doesnt mean that he will be balanced. Second overhauled rework = deletetion of one champ and adding another one with the same name and gutting is lowered version of deletion, so don't try to compare him to aatrox and his wanted revert since its not even favorable for ryze. What the %%%% are you going on about Firstly read what I bloody wrote again for once in your life. I’m saying that the only way that these two thread match is if you where asking for a rework, as your just talking about gutting then it is completely unrelated to a thread about reworks Secondly if you don’t want me to compare him to aatrox why the %%%% did you bring this up on a thread about aatrox. > What th fk is this? You want to say that he is volatile to buff but not to nerfs? Like what the hell is that logic... Because volitile buffs result in overbuffed champions... if you gradually nerf a volitile champion to where they are balanced you’ve got a lot less room for error than trying to buff a volitile champion I never said he wasn’t volitile to nerfs, but when dealing with volitile champions nerfs are preferable than buffs. > When we buff him and then nerf him by reverting buff, it will be different from starting point or what? Are you trying to disprove my argument that: "Making champ weak so he doesn't break the game and then buffing him to be fine is better than letting him break the game until he is nerfed to be fine." ? Pretty stupid logic... Well yes, remember that breaking the game is firstly subjective (again that’s only your opinion), and secondly doesn’t require massive nerfs to deal with... it will get to a better point in only a few nerfs and these nerfs don’t have to be slow, but by doing the nerfs carefully you can stop when needed and therefore won’t require the risk of buffs later on. The opinions are gutting then risking buffs, or being a bit slower (doesn’t take that much longer) but not risking the buffs later on... worse in the short term, infinitely better long term.
: > Do you see every game over 1000 ap with full build and drakes and even baron? Yeah pretty much. > And what about that mana? 6K mana just like that is maybe nothing much too.. Again a normal mage with a normal amount of mana never run out later on into the game... it gets to the point where most of that mana will never be touched. > You have opinion, I have opinion, you say your facts as to why your opinion is correct, I say my facts as to why my opinion is correct, you say my opinion is crappy, I say your facts are crappy. I don't really care as to what you think, but care WHY you think so. You haven't say anything reasonable beside that he was somehow gutted and it didn't worked for some reason and he wasn't really in that bad spot, he wasn't in worse spot many champions are now + he had rework now so it might be solution just maybe in softer way, just maybe. And if Riot did so, then it wasn't because of community... But I have explained it... multible times in multible ways... your just not listening. You want riot to overnerf ryze thinking that’s the only way, I’m telling you another way is to gradually nerf him. The advantage of that is that you don’t kill a champion for their player pool, and you don’t need to buff later removing the risk of overbuffing him. Riot have tried it your way and it’s failed, no reason to try it again.
Said the person who hasn’t given a single argument besides “ryze is op so Riot should gut him”
: > Do you see every game over 1000 ap with full build and drakes and even baron? Yeah pretty much. > And what about that mana? 6K mana just like that is maybe nothing much too.. Again a normal mage with a normal amount of mana never run out later on into the game... it gets to the point where most of that mana will never be touched. > You have opinion, I have opinion, you say your facts as to why your opinion is correct, I say my facts as to why my opinion is correct, you say my opinion is crappy, I say your facts are crappy. I don't really care as to what you think, but care WHY you think so. You haven't say anything reasonable beside that he was somehow gutted and it didn't worked for some reason and he wasn't really in that bad spot, he wasn't in worse spot many champions are now + he had rework now so it might be solution just maybe in softer way, just maybe. And if Riot did so, then it wasn't because of community... But I have explained it... multible times in multible ways... your just not listening. You want riot to overnerf ryze thinking that’s the only way, I’m telling you another way is to gradually nerf him. The advantage of that is that you don’t kill a champion for their player pool, and you don’t need to buff later removing the risk of overbuffing him. Riot have tried it your way and it’s failed, no reason to try it again.
> Which you get out of nowhere just like that, with no reason why it should be this way, unlike me who wrote essay as to why I am correct... No it’s not, this is a discussion in a post about ryze’s nerfs getting lesserned in favour of nerfs to conquerer... that’s not out of no where because that’s the entire topic of this post. > And here we go again, just aggressive talking with facts sucked out of fingers... I’m response to a comment that was just insults with no arguments... your forgetting that the vast majority of your posts is just you saying I’m bias or have a bad argument without giving an argument at all. > Argument with logic I already proved as untrue even before you even used it... Except at no point have you disproved anything... give me proof tha Riot have never done this before over the 10 years of balancing the game, give me proof that ryze will react well to getting killed. Because right now all you’ve done is say “your wrong” and try to chalk that up to proving stuff as untrue. > Do you see? This your comment, where you said that you have clarified everything already, is what started this whole hassle because so far you haven't... But neither have you... you’ve given no valid argument for ryze deserving to die... just insults to me > "B-B-B-Bu-But... I... They don't wanna... / T-T-T-they will.../ People - this and this..." Really fk off with this, to be honest... See this shit... that’s the first insult thrown in this thread... and it’s yours. All your argument is is just insults to me (and ones I don’t take kindly to either, using stutters is not a good thing to use if you don’t know the person, I’ve suffered heavily from a stutter). So just stop whiteknighting and stop being a hypocritical asshole, if you want a stop to insulting don’t be the one starting it. Ryze mains doesn't want their champion to die ( See? Argument based on sentimentality...) Only half of my point, don’t nitpick quotes > Players that play against ryze just react poorly (Sentimentality towards ryze players again based on fact sucked out of your fingers on top of it..) Never said that, what I did say was that ryze reacts badly to buffs, and that people playing against him don’t want a repeat of him getting buffs > 3) I am not majority ( was about rengar but still meant in a way that I am not supposed to speak on behalf of majority of people neither about rengar nor RYZE) Which true but it dont change fact that what I said is true and what Riot should take into account when making decision... I said that your view point of your main being nerfed is a minority, which is true and completely renders what you said moot. > 4) I am rushing things ( Your personal and personal only opinion, not fact, just how you see it) That gutting a champion is rushing it, not opinion we’ve got a lot of proof of what happens > 5) Riot already tried out my option ( First thing that might be marked as constructive ) Hard to give constrictive arguments to someone who doesn’t give them themselves... again sort out your own argument first > 6) My bias is the problem, I dont understand the entire point of balancing and thus short sighted ( Your personal and personal only opinion, not fact, just how you see it AGAIN...) Again not person opinion... you want ryze to die and refuse to see another option , bias. And balance is to make a champion not weak or strong, that’s not opinion again that’s fact. Gutting is directly opposed to this. > 8) Gradual nerfing until he is balanced is another option and is more favourable. ( which is technically number 1 again but written in different way, so nothing much new) Because your stuck on thinking that gutting is the only option > 10) Ryze does not use all of his mana, so he isn't regular mage but doen't get much more than then regular mage ( LIke what? He isnt? This would be constructive if it was true but it isn't...) That his damage isn’t higher than other hypercarry mages and therefore doesn’t need to be singled out... others who use ap or health match him. > 11) if I overnerf a champion I’ve failed at balancing simple as that. And overnerfing means killing ( which, I assume, you based this on number 1) Which is true... > 13) Ryze isn't OP enough to get overnerfed ( which is word against word argument and also basically number 10 with) No champion is... gutting doesn’t solve issues it creates more. ___ Shall we do yours then 1) I’d be fine with my main getting gutted so every should be (opinion with no facts) 2) ryze is op so should be gutted (opinion with no facts) 3) conquerer has nothing to do with ryze (complete bullshit with no facts, just opinion) 4) I’m bias (which isnt true at all) 5) that gutting and overnerfing doesn’t mean killing (which isn’t true at all) 6) insults So we’ve got 6 points, 2 are just insults, so 4 arguments, none of which are constructive As you said, case closed.
HideSide (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=swampert919,realm=EUW,application-id=39gqIYVI,discussion-id=XGOceo1f,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-12-10T12:03:07.101+0000) > > How is that being hypocrite... > > This whole situation proves my point that mains don’t want their champion to die, hence why this post exists in the first place if mains where happy watching their champion die then this post wouldn’t exist. > > Doesn’t change the fact that some times reworks have to happen, they always suck for mains and posts like this exits for all of them that’s happened, but it’s a necessary evil at times.. > > But this is not and will never be what you wanted for ryze of overnerfing, this is making sure a champion lives in another form... you just want ryze to die First of all, if one deserved removal then the second one deserve to be at least gutted because ryze is as big nightmare or even bigger than aatrox was, maybe in different way but because of the same reason and I am not talking whether its true or not but that you agtee with one but disagree with another one. And I don't want him to die, I want to remove him FOR THE TIME BEING, so that he doesn't destroy the game until he is fixed + he wouldn't be removed completely but only virtually for "freelo" players not for skilled mains. And here we go again that you don't think about what you read, or dont read at all or IDK what.
But one doesn’t mean the other. You want him gutted (which means killed by the way, like our previous descussion I do advice you use the correct wording), where as this was a rework. If you where arguing for ryze to be reworked we’d be having a very different descussion (firstly because that’s much more sensible than gutting, and secondly because that and this descussion would actually have a correlation) What your forgetting is that ryze is volitile to buffs, if you want him gutted until later then to undo him dying (again gutted means nerfed until almost or completely unviable) then that’s buffs causing more issues
: The worst player has more impact in the game than the best
A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link... that’s a staple for team games, anteam is only ever as strong as it’s weakest member So yes this is how it’s supposed to be, this is how teams work.
Luciferrx (EUNE)
: You realise "pro stage" is not "solo que"?Those are 2 different games.In solo que tanks were weak as hell.They nerfed tanks because they were played pro stage. Wtf game you play?Or you new to League?Bot was nerfed the same bcs pro stage.Not because solo que.Most nerfs were based because PRO STAGE.Same was for s8.Thats why we had huge fiesta because of Pro stage and they focus on that instead of solo que.And ofc focusing botlane was a smart idea.2 people there . Adc few seasons ago was a high carry lategame.Now is pretty dumb because he gets deleted by evryone. And no adc can lose with 30 0 kills.Because adc carry ALONE THE GAMES its very very HARD.Right now 90% of champs in League scale better then adc.
> You realise "pro stage" is not "solo que"?Those are 2 different games.In solo que tanks were weak as hell.They nerfed tanks because they were played pro stage. I’m well aware, but the reason bot is strong in pro play isn’t something that’s unique to pro play, it’s more a high elo thing. > Wtf game you play?Or you new to League?Bot was nerfed the same bcs pro stage.Not because solo que.Most nerfs were based because PRO STAGE.Same was for s8.Thats why we had huge fiesta because of Pro stage and they focus on that instead of solo que.And ofc focusing botlane was a smart idea.2 people there . Bot lane is strong in pro because a) the adc actually can positiion and b) the support is good. This eliminates the issue in solo Q of supports not being where they need to be (autofilled) and brain dead adc players. That’s why they are stronger, because they are guarenteed to be good. That’s why solo Q is slightly riskier to rely on bot as they are more prone to mistakes., > Adc few seasons ago was a high carry lategame.Now is pretty dumb because he gets deleted by evryone. But with a support they don’t... again talking about bot lane not just adc > And no adc can lose with 30 0 kills.Because adc carry ALONE THE GAMES its very very HARD.Right now 90% of champs in League scale better then adc. But again they aren’t alone ___ I will say it again, I’m talking about bot lane, not adc... this could be S8 and adc could be useless and I could still say the exact same thing... because currently bot lane holds too much importance to the game and objective play due to dragon and there being 2 players bot... it has nothing to do with adc or how strong/weak they are.
FlameClub (EUNE)
: Jesus, you are so stupid, i stopped reading this crap , you wrote panth and yuumi were strong when released, go fkcing read the notes, they got hotfixed for being not so good, jesus christ, you dont know shitt about the game, maybe thats why you are silver!
Not they didn’t though... pantheon never got any buffs whatso ever... and was 100% banned in pro play in the same state he released in. You’ve not done any research nor do you understand anything about the game, if you wanna argue educate yourself then come back
: > Do you see every game over 1000 ap with full build and drakes and even baron? Yeah pretty much. > And what about that mana? 6K mana just like that is maybe nothing much too.. Again a normal mage with a normal amount of mana never run out later on into the game... it gets to the point where most of that mana will never be touched. > You have opinion, I have opinion, you say your facts as to why your opinion is correct, I say my facts as to why my opinion is correct, you say my opinion is crappy, I say your facts are crappy. I don't really care as to what you think, but care WHY you think so. You haven't say anything reasonable beside that he was somehow gutted and it didn't worked for some reason and he wasn't really in that bad spot, he wasn't in worse spot many champions are now + he had rework now so it might be solution just maybe in softer way, just maybe. And if Riot did so, then it wasn't because of community... But I have explained it... multible times in multible ways... your just not listening. You want riot to overnerf ryze thinking that’s the only way, I’m telling you another way is to gradually nerf him. The advantage of that is that you don’t kill a champion for their player pool, and you don’t need to buff later removing the risk of overbuffing him. Riot have tried it your way and it’s failed, no reason to try it again.
> This is what I am pointing at as failure. Instead of hotfixes, riot should wait for ryze players to ADAPT to ryze's state and then buff him a lil bit. But again they’ve done that... don’t forget that hotfix buffs are a very recent thing, only actually becoming a thing after ryze’s third rework (or was it his 4th, it was the one where his ult became the portal) The fact that riot had spent years and several reworks trying to get ryze to be balanced your way shows how futile it is... adaptation doesn’t always work and ryze is volatile to buffs, much more so than he is to nerfs. > Actually he was, but ppl just didn't realize before. Its notorious how champions jumps from one tier to another because of some insignificant buff/nerf. Firstly this is hardly an insignificant buff it’s several very major buffs (PoM is now perfect for him, and conquerer has made several mage champions overpowered) Secondly he was one of the most played mages before the changes... he’s an increadably popular champion, if he was like this before the change people would have noticed > But again, all conq did was to make ppl to play these champions and make them realize that these champions are OP. They are OP individually... > so this : But all three where already popular especially at high elo... so it making people play them is outright incorrect as the where already considered strong and played before hand. > which is based on your imagined behavior of ppl and sentimentality towards ryze mains.. Except it’s not... I’ve been on the boards for 6 years, I’ve seen people who play ryze after nerfs, or the community in general. And you’ve seen it yourself, you are so frequent to point out how many old aatrox players are still complaining... and that’s for one of the least popular champions in league’s history, it doesn’t take a genius to scale that up to ryze’s popularity. > Then that when champion is weak then its better for game than him being strong. And why? Because u can count that ppl wont play underpowered champion ( and if they pick it then only when they are competent enough to play him despite him being weak) but cant count that they wont play overpowered one or that they will ban him. But that logic only works for unpopular champions, for popular champions it falls apart because they remain popular, there’s enough ryze mains that they get heard... hence why ryze is often the subject of changes. > As if you wanted to say: "So what that you play with Rengar in such dregree where he feels strong?" But thats it, he is strong when played correctly and ofc he will as everyother champion in game feel weak when played incorrectly... The best results are about doing as much as you can not otherwise. Your message summed up to an assumption about the league community, that they are like you and will roll over if their champion gets gutted because they know it’s right... that’s an assumption that does not hold up. > showing you that I can use your very own logic against you, where you should realize that making arguments based on MAJORITY is bullsh;t. But that majority thing was only to do with you, you are a minority... doesn’t matter if rengar mains are a majority or not your outlook on your main getting nerfed is a minority... hence why rengar mains acted so badly with his rework and why it was reverted. > Meaning that I haven't thought it through and I wonder why you think so when you look at Ryze's whole problem. + You are saying that riot did what players wanted but not exactly and not in the same conditions as are now and then talking about riots failure in trying to nerf ryze which was made in what I have wrote in this reply that they didn't intended to OVERNERF him but only nerf which lead to buffs that ruined it all, not that overnerf but buffs. And what that I am minority plat + is also minority and riot balanced around them for a long times ( tho, in name only... irl, they balanced game mostly for master+ ) + I was talking about Rengar so what are you talking about? (just because you are a minority who’s ok with watching their champion become unplayable doesn’t mean others are.) About ryze? But why? I wasn't talking about that I would say a sh;t if ryze got nerfed but rengar. And if its regarding rengar, then I already stated what makes this sentence untrue. This is where things fall apart, here’s what you said > Again and again, I' said this already like 3 times: Rengar is OP, so op that I wouldn't say a sh;t about him being nerfed, And say it as rengar main with nearly 500K on him and wonder why isnt played so much( which Im glad for hehe :D). This is what makes you a minority, and what makes this about rengar. Your a rengar mains who’s happy for rengar to be nerfed regardless... this is a minority way of thinking and one that history has shown is not replicated in other players (especially not rengar and ryze mains) Same with ryze, the majority of ryze mains will have an objection to ryze being gutted, same as all mains... and when balancing as it’s to make a champion balanced not weak Riot will listen to these mains who are saying riot took it too far, especially if the data supports this (which it will as he’s been gutted), this results in buffs that ryze is very volitile about making him too strong... that’s why his balance is often associated with a rollercoaster, ups and downs. Rengar is another example of this, hence what happened with his rework... he was made weaker and easier to deal with, rengar mains reacted badly, riot listened and revert the things causing issues, now he’s a problem again. ___ The issue is that you tunnelled visioned in on one single thing and not a whole sentence. For example the full quote is > it’s disruptive and feels outright shit for everyone involved... their mains don’t want their champion to die and people who don’t main them react poorly to a champion who was just strong getting buffs. It’s not just a case of ryze mains but everyone else as well. Ryze reacts badly to buffs, even small ones have caused him to become overpowered, gutting him then buffing him just works out badly for everyone, ryze mains when he’s weak, and everyone else when he’s too strong. That’s my point, gutting then buffing ryze has never and will never work out well for anyone, where as gradual nerfs like what riot is doing nerfs him without needing follow up buffs, so he’s not an issue for us, and doesn’t gut him meaning he isn’t an issue for ryze mains. It’s a solution that benefits everyone, while what you want doesn’t benefit anyone long run
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swampert919

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